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In wait for Darkfall Online

I am looking forward to DFO, so yes I am seeing things a bit rosy. I love FPS combat I love PvP I hate levels I do recognize that not all people chare my preferences -“Full-loot is what keeps you safe” And you can quote me on that

Author: nileq

"Full loot" in Darkfall Online should not scare you

Posted by nileq Thursday September 11 2008 at 7:29AM
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This write-up is about why you should not afraid of full loot and rampart ganking, particularly how game mechanics in Darkfall prevents this from going overboard.

Why you won’t be ganked, by your own race, at every turn.

Through a simple system of Alignment, most “own-racial-PK’rs” will be held in check. I say most because there will always be a few that will be doing it just to spite.
It simply works like this –if you attack a member of your own race, your alignment takes a hit (decreases). When it has decreased enough you will become an outcast of your own race. This is said to mean that NPC-guards will kill you on sight; your own race is free to kill you with an alignment increase (not decrease) as a result.
In fact the only city you could enter is Silvertown (neutral), which is supposed to allow anyone (pirate stronghold) to enter. You will have to bind at a chaos stone (located quite a bit from civilized areas, is my guess) instead of anywhere near your race.

This will ensure that most internal-race-pk’ers will be held at bay. What about those other races, you say? Well read on I say!

Why you won’t be ganked, by racial enemies, at every turn.

Firstly here are some things we know,
-Agon is very big (8hrs to trek across is the rumor)
-You cannot look at someone and say, -“yeah, I’ll beat him”
-There are no “sword-of-kill-ya’ll”
-When you die, you will resurrect at your bind-stone, not where you died.

Given these statements we can quickly surmise that if you are in relative close proximity to:
your own Guild city, your racial capital or in the vicinity of any of your race’s guild’s city’s (unless you are at war with that particular guild). Then a racial-enemy of yours, close enough to attack you will be pretty far from his territories (and bind-stone).  For a racial enemy to get close enough to kill you, he will have to do some traveling, not getting killed by anyone else before happening upon you.

When at last he has reached your territories and found his prey (you), there is no way for him to look at you think “yeah, I’ll take him down easy”. He must calculate that if you are better/stronger than him (or have unseen friends around, no floating names) you will take him down instead of the reverse. He must calculate with you looting him. And if you (and your friends) take him down, then he will have trekked for a long time, sneaking around in vain. He won’t come running as a ghost, resurrect at his corps, run of too buff up, and then come at you again. He will have to resurrect at his bind-stone, probably way off in his home territories (or somewhere in the wilderness, at a chaos-stone)

Now let’s just assume that he does take you down and loot you, what are you likely to wear? I’d say that most of your gold, and stuff will be sitting in you guild-bank or something similar.
So what will he be looting? Probably:
*A few coins
*A basic robe/armor
*A weapon or two
*Anything that you recently picked up (resources maybe)

Now since you are close to your city and the bank, you don’t have too much on you, he on the other hand will be carrying loot from several kills (if you are not his first victim). Now it has been said over and over again, that basic gear will not be very hard to attain (in-expensive). So in order for the assailant in this scenario to be successful, will he trek all that way, kill and loot one character, and then trek all the way home again? Not likely, he will need to kill and loot several victims before returning home, with anything resembling a profit.  That will mean that he must succeed in killing several characters, which he cannot visually gauge the skill/strength of, without he himself dying once, before returning home.

This will require a very dedicated player.

-“Full-loot is what keeps you safe”
And you can quote me on that

Trashcantoy writes:

ok mayb this is a dumb question since im not into DF.. but what if u do wear expensive/rare gear? its full loot so he can and will loot all of it. or is everyone gonna wear basic armor when they are in non safe areas cause they are scared to lose their hard earned gear?

Thu Sep 11 2008 8:50AM Report
nileq writes:

Sertainly not a dumb question, but since gear really only give you a very slight buff, you wont have "epics" witch you grind for ever for.

This game is not centered around gear (or levels), if anything it is centered around City building/Empire building and such. But there are other goals you can set for yourself, you are quite free to make your own goals in a sandbox game, such as this

Thu Sep 11 2008 8:56AM Report
streea writes:

Though I was interested in checking out Darkfall, finding out it has a full loot system means I won't be trying it out. It isn't a "fear" issue when it comes to losing loot. I just don't like the type of people that this type of feature attracts. You say a few, but it's not a few... it's a lot of people who don't care about the "penalties" that are in-game, nor do they care about the time it takes to hunt you down... they go hunting to just kill whoever they can find, not for their loot, but because it makes them feel oh so good about themselves.

No time sink, nor fake penalty, will keep them from running around trying to ruin your game. And heaven forbid you aren't a part of one of the super guilds that will pop up so they can "defend" each other... being forced to stick with others OR DIE is not a style of play I have any interest in.

Thu Sep 11 2008 10:04AM Report
mrcalhou writes:

Streea, at least you don't live in Menzoberranzan or on the streets of Calimport. ^_^

Thu Sep 11 2008 10:26AM Report
streea writes:

If I did, fear would be the right word... losing a few clothes probably wouldn't worry me!

Thu Sep 11 2008 10:56AM Report
OoInfiniteOo writes:

lol i love your reference Calhou Zak ftw

anyway this system makes it possible to have an alt that you dont care about but can be your revenge taker soooo take it with a grain of salt

Thu Sep 11 2008 11:01AM Report
Cotillion99 writes:

While i am definitely a Warhammer lover and this game has played with my emotions for a long time, I will forgive it when it arrives, I definitely plan on making a normal character in a regular area and another character that will be a pure criminal with the hopes of becoming a pirate/bandit.

Thu Sep 11 2008 11:04AM Report
Superman0X writes:

I believe that something very simple (yet basic) has been overlooked.... human nature. You can go on and on about how X is unlikely to happen... yet we all know that it WILL happen at some time.

The real question is the value of equipment. If equipment is expensive and rare, then full loot is devistating. If equipment is cheap, and common, then it is just annoying at best, and no real issue.

So, the issue isnt with the looting system, it is with the economics... which we have no details on.


Thu Sep 11 2008 12:06PM Report
Atheki writes:

@Infinite and Cotillion99:


Just for your information: Darkfall is a  "Single Character per Server" game.

No Alts on the same server, only if you have another account.

Thu Sep 11 2008 12:33PM Report
Resin213 writes:

 The features sound very cool, I hope they stick with them and make them work when they are challenged and don't end up watering them down, full loot and one character per server are the types of things that will set this MMO apart. I wish I liked their character design more though, other people seem to, but I just find them very generic. Not planning to play at release but will definately keep my eye on.

Thu Sep 11 2008 12:51PM Report
nileq writes:

First off, I am very pleased to se the many replys. Thankyou guys.

I see where you are comming from, and as I said this game will not be for everyone, however I do hope it becomes successful enough that more and bigger developers realize that there are an alternative to the themepark, namely the sandbox.
There will, as you state, most certainly be quite a few douchbags that will gank everyone around, and they will travel for great distances (and time) to be able to do so. But keep this in mind, it will take roughly (by statement in a dev update) 8 rlh (real life hours) to
trek from one end to the other in Darkfall. Each server will be able to host 10.000 simultanious players (that is roughly a population of 50-70 thousand users.
I would like to say: give it a try, and then deside, and as a matter of fact you can. Aventurine (the dev-studio) have said that you will be able to try before you buy (commendable!) So Streea - see you in there!

OolnfiniteOo (peeeeuuh, that was kinda hard to type..):
There will be no alt's to take revenge. The developers have decided to go with SCS as standard (Single Character per Server). To stop spying and revengemaking alts ;-).

The same as I replied to OoInfiniteOo (didn't get easyer to type the second time around) there will be no alt's, you will be forced to take a stand, are you a pirate or arent you? And by the way, WAR seems to be comming along nicely (althogh I wont be playing it, I just haven't got the time for it)

What you say is so very true, you can rely on human nature to be un-relyable. One thing you can rely on though, is that most humans are lazy. Therefore I would like to say that we can safely assume that there will be relatively few persons undertaking this adventure, and with the giant world of Darkfall, you will most likely not run into them.
Equipment will easely replaced, it has been stated, so it will be cheap. As you state, the true test is the economic will make or break a game like this, I do know a thing or two about how that is  supposed to work, and I just might make that into a seperate blogg.

Once again, thankyou for caring.

Thu Sep 11 2008 12:53PM Report
Trashcantoy writes:

another question then :p im not familiar with sandbox games and mmos not centered around gear lvls.. what is there to look forward expect lvling some skills? besides pvping what makes u play for several months? thnx in advance for the answer :P

Thu Sep 11 2008 2:40PM Report
nileq writes:

3on1: First off, well don't be surpriced, there arent that many sandboxe's out there..

On with your question: well diden't you hit the nails head at once.

This is how it words;
Some people like their food served on fine china, others will be satisfied with something from the desert floor, I'll let you be the judge of what is what.

Imagine a large artificial world (they are always artificial) where you can go everywhere, and do what ever you like. You can go this way or that way (any oldschool MUD'ers out there s,e,n,w anyone?) ever witch way you choose, you WILL be able to go there.
There are no areas with "lvl 49 mobs" for witch you will be atleast lvl 48 to beat.

You can become what ever you wan too;
-be the pirate that boards ships, steal them and sell them.
-be the mercenary that will fight for the highest bidder. (there will be plenty of inter Guild wars)
-be the assassin that kills one rival guids leader just before the attack begins.
-be the hero that takes revenge on PK's
-be the crafter that can make almost anything
-be the trader that keeps that "oh, so special weapon" in stock just for you.
-be the king of an guild witch conroles 3 cities, and appoints mayors and architects for those cities.
-be the guy that took down the über deamon of doom.
-geez I just want to say "be what ever you can be" here.. guess it's some form of advertisement playing in my head.
-well be what-ever you wan't to be.

-"What is there to look farward to, exept leveling and some skills you ask?"
well my answer are five fold (for now, there are lots more):

1. Be what ever you like, set the goal and go for it.

2. Right off the bat, start living as a character, you and some friends are equal to the oldest guy on the server. (the opposit is -"oh, he is level 70 an I am only 25")
3. Do what you want, be the server coolest trader, crafter, fighter, pirate or just be one in a large group.
4. There is no need to rush trough content, -"to get to that next stage, where your cool friend is" take your time and enjoy it, be it with an oldtimer as a friend or not.
5. The world around you is not created by the "themepark-designers" who have planned your every step, it has been created for you to explore and use as you wish.

I have an exelent example for you, now it is derived from one of the most  known (if not THE most known) themepark mmo.
I saw on youtube an "exploit" of the mechanics in this particular mmo, where if you jumped up a mountain in a particular way you could actually reach the top. This was by the game-masers considerd an exploit, and could get you banned.

Now in DFO, and for that matter, in any sandbox game, anything you can do, is most certainly not considered an exploit. It may not be intended, but it would never get you banned.

-"be what you can be"

Thu Sep 11 2008 3:57PM Report
nileq writes:

Yes, they HAVE been challenged alot, but they have also stood by their feathures since 2001 when the game was fist announced (a long time, I now, but also a long story, for another time).
The creaters of the game (from Norway to begin with, eaven though the development is conducted in Greece now) have a long and confermed heritage from old-school UO and counter strike. There are plenty of evidence around that suggest that they rather will go down in flames (hey, they live through forumfall..) than change one bit of the game aspects or features due to "carebear's". I hope they will.

Thu Sep 11 2008 4:08PM Report
Trashcantoy writes:

thnx for your answers nileq, if only everyone from DF would be as nice as you ;) i kinda like the idea behind it, now if they would just polish the graphics effects/animations a tad id prolly try it out :)

Thu Sep 11 2008 4:18PM Report
Resin213 writes:

 I also like the first person perspective lock, the only way to do true stealth IMO. 

It's not the carebears I worry about so much as the fun factor and the herd mentality. It's hard for people to accept restrictions they are not used to. Launches are difficult for most MMOs. There almost always seems to be some unknown Murphies law thing waiting in the wings. It will be nice to see a significantly different mmo on the market.

Thu Sep 11 2008 5:09PM Report
Superman0X writes:


I have a bit of experience with economic systems, pvp, and sandbox games. I know what to expect players to do with a system, once you give it to them.

I do agree that people are lazy. However, those that are seeking to grief will be much more interested (and invested) in the process than those who end up as thier victims. If it is easier to kill others for goods, than to get them other ways, then that is how people will do it. There is also a 'I am better than you' factor, that some people will always want... even if it means killing people who are afk, just to increase thier kill count.

Much of the 'danger' in darkfall will come from other players, because they are unpredictable. However, it can be easily predicted that some people will be there just to be the exception to the rule.

Thu Sep 11 2008 5:29PM Report
nileq writes:

3on1: I aim to please, it is only in the DFO forums that we "Fanboys" act all hardcore and cool, we have been forced to, by the many trolls in there ;-p, no worries though, we have been through forumfall, and that could be much uglier then's Darkfall forum could ever be.
See you ingame!

We will see where the community takes DFO when it launches, this is a big challange in a sandbox mmo, since you don't force any player in any direction, they may very well go haywire..

I just love this line, This is so very much sandbox! "to do with a system, once you give it to them".
Darkfall's gameplay is leaning heavily on the PvP, but the game mechanics will make the City-Segeing and Guild-warfare the engine in the economic system. Griefing will exist naturally, but I don't think that we will experience it to be any more annoying than in he current themepark mmos of today.

A word of caution though, at launch there will be ALOT of griefing going on..

Fri Sep 12 2008 3:21AM Report
Ataaka writes:

As with any MMORPG, I'm just hoping for a smooth product at launch. A few wrinkles at launch is expected, which has nothing to do with the content of the game, but I'm tired of half-baked games that even a genius would take a millenium to iron-out.

Gamers deserve better.

The last few BETAS were less than an exchange of ideas or nursery of bug reporting, it was nothing more than a stress test, at best. Too bad that they spend millions to develop and not be in touch with those who will give it life.

I'm not in a bubble about it all either. Regardless of 'the amount of work it takes to develop and launch a game' I am the customer. I never purchased a car where the tires fell off leaving the lot. Nor I have carried empty pales to the water company for refills. Business is business, regardless that the business might be a game.

DF will do well. It will have it's playerbase, they will come.

Fri Sep 12 2008 5:47AM Report
Goozin writes:

Nice work, help alot of noobs that don't know anything about the game!

Mon Sep 22 2008 7:45PM Report
KhaelSUN writes:

3on1: About graphic effects and animations. A point that Tasos has tried to make several times is that graphics are really alot better than what you see in the game play movie. The movie is made with medium graphics settings.

They are aiming for epic city sieges with 200 v 200 people with 30+ frames per second. Some compromises have to be made on the 3d models to make this possible. And maybe graphic effects and explosions have also been simplified a bit for the same reason.

Mon Sep 29 2008 9:10AM Report writes:
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