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Ignorance is excruciating.

When people trade easy playablity in place of gameplay that makes you think. What ever happened to the games that made you want to break your controller? And you seriously thought about it being a option.

Author: Goldknyght

Blissless Gameplay

Posted by Goldknyght Thursday July 31 2008 at 10:09AM
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I'm starting to notice a trend in todays games and i can't seem to not hate it. Gameplay has all but started to remove the death penalty from a game. Don't the developers know thats what makes people think and use there brains? Now all i have to do in games is just kill everything thats in my way because when they kill me im spawning again with no penalty and no reason not to die again. As a medium games need to keep you thinking and make you use your brain. Unfortunatly this doesn't fit into a profitable portfolio for the industry. If you make a game that is too hard people are just not going to want to play it and it will fail. The MMO market is a perfect example. The death penalty in almost every new mmo has been removed. I personally can remember paying for  experiance resurections when i died in EQ because other wise i lost alot of experiance upon death. So what did this keep me doing? Thinking on ways not to die and when I did die seriously think about rather or not to destroy my keyboard if a resurection wasn't going to happen. I know i hated it but that was also the experience of the game. Don't die or you will pay for it. I just hope one day that the true gameplay will return because this facile gameplay they give us gamers today is in my personal opinion unacceptable.

HumbleHobo writes:

 Yup.  Welcome to the MMO industry.


It seems that in order to make more money, the games need to be simplified for the casual market.  Casual = money.  Marketing has decided that Casual players want to have their hand held through the entire gaming process.


In many, many ways, WoW eliminated some of the fun aspects of the old, veteran MMOs in the process of streamlining others.


Now, I hesitate to call Runescape "hardcore", but I remember dying and losing all that I owned up in the Wild.  I was understandably angry, but it wore off and I learned to be more careful.  I regained all my stuff eventually and continued on as normal, only wiser.


Unfortunately, the only place you can get that today is EVE Online.  Great game, but you see that there is not an overwhelming demand out there for hardcore, no-turning-back death with consequences.  You won't find that thrill many other places today.

Thu Jul 31 2008 10:26AM Report
streea writes:

While I don't think an entire game should be made harder or softer, I would definitely like to see games offer up servers with different rules. Want to play without a death penalty? Go to server A. Want to lose XP, drop stuff on you, and have open FFA? Go to server B. That way, everyone can have their cake and eat it too.

The only downfall to this would be the elitism that would come from it.... such as thinking that the way games were is the "true" way they should be. But that's going to be around regardless of separate servers.

Thu Jul 31 2008 11:43AM Report
Shlomo writes:

Very good point. If there is no lesson to be learned. There is no thrill what so ever. After deciding to play warhammer (mainly because my friends would) i feel as though the game will still be the same as wow. They said so themselves. Makes you sad to think of it.

Remember a post a while back that went a little something like this "People don't know what's good for them". Loved all he had to say.

There were a lot of rejection to the theori but that was expected seeing that this is the forum that it is. A proving the point to some extent.

A well back to me guinness, Cheers.

Thu Jul 31 2008 1:33PM Report
Kynmore writes:

I can't wait for the day when an MMO includes perminant effects to dieing... Losing a limb, an eye, hearing, constant pain could being the need to keep certain consumable items in your stock, akin to ammo... Also all the while adding negative modifiers to things, removing the ability to use certain weapons, etc...

But i doubt anyone would want to play a game like that...

Thu Jul 31 2008 1:37PM Report
Shlomo writes:

True. Picked up Never winter nights, just to pleace my fantasy hard core lust =)

Thu Jul 31 2008 1:39PM Report
centrik91 writes:

Everyone here made valid points, and I agree with most of them.

But, let's take a step back and look through the eyes of a casual gamer.  He/she has say, maybe 1-3 hours tops to play his/her favorite MMO.  Now, one day player "x", a hardcore player kills player "c" , a casual player who was questing.  Now let's say player x is able to loot player c, and take a piece of gear.  Now, that piece of gear may take a harcore player only a week or so to get, but for player c, that piece of gear took him a month to get.  Discouraged and angered, c cancels his sibscription.

Thu Jul 31 2008 2:11PM Report
Goldknyght writes:

What it boils down to is what the game is in general. Hard-Core players are forced now into Casual games because there is no game that offers a challenge. But you cant use hard core player assuming that they are dicks. A gamer is a gamer not a dick and the dicks are in every genre of a game so to classify them as hard-core is not accurate. What the genre is turning into rather then when games were ment to be entertaining to a specific group they target everyone to try and make money. Even funcoms claims at mature only game is decaying day by day. They want your money not to entertain you on a mental level.

Thu Jul 31 2008 2:22PM Report
Shlomo writes:

That still has nothing to do with death penalty. The casual player will always be behind the man who plays all day long. As long as the casual gamer dosent make very stupid decissions .. damn i really need to  get this spelling thing going .. flying blind here. =) ... As long as you take care and one sting will teach you where to run and where to fight

Thu Jul 31 2008 2:26PM Report
Shlomo writes:

True Gold

Thu Jul 31 2008 2:30PM Report
Mequellios writes:

It's a long ways off, but Exanimus (assumed to be released in about 1 1/2 - 2 years) will have perma-death servers. Once your bit by a zombie, your screwed. Once you die, that's it. No more you.

I'm personally very excited to have a survival game in the works. Killing endless mobs of spiders and boars gets so boring.

Thu Jul 31 2008 7:35PM Report
Brialyn writes:

I played FFXI and it had a death penalty, the only time I was angry was in pathetic groups that wouldn't work together.  Back then I was a hard core gamer and I liked the death penalty.  As a casual gamer I like the death does encourage some thought from the player.  A player looting me would severly piss me off...this is why I don't play on a pvp server...but if I got a little careless and took on too many mobs or one that is just a bit too tough for me...I deserve to take a hit in exp. There are still games that hard core gamers can get what they want for example FFXI, you just have to look for them, and no they might not be the latest greatest game out...WoW changed the MMO market forever.

Fri Aug 01 2008 11:22AM Report
Shlomo writes:

Indeed. Been tempted to try out FFXI for quite some time now. Vanguard paniced when the launch "amazingly" turned out to be a disaster and nerfed the death penelty to next to nothing.


Fri Aug 01 2008 11:34AM Report
sifudoja writes:

Just take the initiative and punish yourself everytime you die. It doesn't have to be a game mechanic, if you want it that way, RP a little and give yourself whatever penalty you see fit, toss an item or waste some of your money on npc trash and toss those also. Then stand around the graveyard or town for 10 minutes and tell your group members who are waiting for you and have a limited amount of playtime that this is what you get for letting me die.

Some people don't like the penalties and shouldn't be forced to have them when there is nothing stopping you from penalizing yourself when the game won't do it for you.

I can understand both sides of the arguement, but for the sake of fairness and freedom i would have to take side against you on this. I just don't like forcing people to have or do things they don't like in videogames, different people have different levels of tolerance for this type of thing and shouldn't be forced to conform to others if it can be helped. You can penalize yourself and others can decide not to, then everyone gets their way.

Fri Aug 01 2008 1:59PM Report
Kalmarth writes:

Sadly anything that hurts a player or could turn a play off from playing a game is normally removed, the cut throat market that is MMO's is not a contest to see who can get the numbers and keep them, if you upset a player or worse group of players, then most times something gets changed to suit them just to keep the players.

This is not always true RIP SWG

Fri Aug 01 2008 4:03PM Report writes:
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