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Rollo talks games. (And Pie)

Just another gamer pretending to know what he's talking about.

Author: Rollotamasi

God Help Me, I Have Become “That Guy”

Posted by Rollotamasi Friday November 21 2008 at 11:00AM
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Well, Maybe I am not quite there yet but I think I am getting closer. Perhaps I should explain. I spend a decent amount of time on It’s a slow time for the IT industry so I have to keep my self occupied somehow. While I read a good many posts I don’t really post ALL that often. Anyone who reads posts here knows there are certain groups of “people”. You have the SWG haters, The DF vaportrolls/rabid fanboys, The “WoW is the greatest game ever even though it’s the only game I have ever played” crowd and so on.

Then there is the group that I feel like I am unwillingly becoming a part of. While I don’t think they really have a established name I am going to refer to them as the “malcontents”. This group generally holds to the philosophy that the MMO market in general has gone to crap and everything coming out is just un-inspired rubbish (IE WoW Clone). Malcontents think developers basically just remake WoW because it is the safe bet and have no interest in innovation and moving the genre forward.

Now here is my problem. I started gaming when I was about 15. I am now 29. My first MMO was Anarchy online. I played it for about 3 years on and off. I followed this up with FFXI, WoW, EQ2, EVE (Which I still play) and most recently WaR. What I am trying to figure out is if I am truly becoming a malcontent or if I am simply out growing gaming (Or at least outgrowing MMO’s) Or if the industry in general is maturing and innovating but I as a gamer am just to impatient.

Anarchy Online was fresh and new. I had never played a MMO. FFXI was basically the same game but I think I didn’t notice as much because I have always loved the final fantasy universe. I played WoW for about 18 months. I think the reason it stayed fairly interesting is I had never really been exposed to PvP or raiding. EvE is just a totally different beast and more or less impossible to really describe but I can say without a doubt it was like nothing I had ever played before and why I still play it today. Then there is WaR.

With WaR I know have that “Been there, Done that” feeling. But I don’t really blame that on WaR. I really had the same feeling in EQ2 and would probably have it in LOTRO, AoC, etc. I liked WaR but it only held me for about a month. To be honest, I don’t really blame anyone. But I do have to question myself. Does a genre that is so ruled by fairly tight constraints because of it’s nature really have anything left to show me? Each game I have played other then WaR showed me something new. Whether that was the genre in general, raiding and PvP, PvP with a harsh penalty or the chance to play in a universe I have loved forever.

I look at the malcontents and I do agree that the genre feels stale and lacks any major innovation but I have to ask, Is the problem with the games or is it with the gamers themselves? Are we asking to much from such a young industry?

Take for example the car. The Ford model T was released to the public in 1909. It is now 2008 and we are driving the same car. Sure, over the years it has gotten better but at its core a car is still the same as it was in 1909. Four wheels, a steering wheel, seats, etc. Sure, the wheels have gotten better but they are still wheels. Seats have gotten more comfy but they are still just seats. The auto industry took a idea and improved on it but that idea is still the same as it was in 1909. It has just had almost 100 years of polish.

To some extent I feel that it is unfair to expect so much innovation out of the MMO industry in such a short period of time. While I know there were games that came before it I am for the purpose of this post going to say that the MMO genre got it’s real start in 1997 with the release of ultima online. That’s 11 years. In reality, that’s not a long time for a industry to mature and innovate.

Love it or hate it WoW was the last major innovation in MMO’s. They took PvE, PvP and Raiding and made it accessible to mass groups of people. That is a innovation regardless of how much you hate the game. So the MMO genre had it’s last major innovation in 2004. While I want innovation as much as the next guy I also have to look at the fact that 4 years REALLY isn’t that long.

In closing. I think everyone is both right and wrong. I think the industry does feel stale because of a lack of innovation but I think we as gamers are to impatient and to expect such major innovation from such a young industry isn’t fair.

zergwatch writes:

There is not one ounce of originality left in the MMO industry, including WoW.


Fri Nov 21 2008 11:03AM Report
cormach writes:

I think since WoW came out, most new MMO's have tried to copy a lot of the same feel and style of WoW. Like most  industries, once people see what sells and what's popular, they all try to emulate that. For better or worse, WoW has "dumbed down," to a certain extent, the thought that is required ot play games.

The one big difference in the games you listed is Eve. People either love it or hate, because it is not like most other MMO's. It requires a lot of thought and planning, and is not kind to incompetence. It truly is a sandbox, where the players control almost everything. Sometimes that's good, and sometimes not.

Fri Nov 21 2008 11:32AM Report
DaX.9 writes:

Great post, I am 29 and feel same. Who knows maybe it is cause of age :)

Fri Nov 21 2008 11:32AM Report
Fadedbomb writes:

No, it's the industry. It hasn't a SINGLE thought of origionality anymore. EVE currently is the only MMO even attempting to change what it means to be an MMO. However, they have a very different playstyle and mechanic behind what they do in their world.

HOWEVER, one BIG flaw in the logic of most people is calling EVE a "true sandbox". The only hint at it being a sandbox is it's economy and the fact you can put down Player Owned Stations or "POS's" in a 0.0 system to call your home. However, that's where it stops completely. The game is EXTREMELY linear in how it wants you to play, with the skill system and mission system being the true indicators of this. So no, EVE is not a "true" sandbox MMO, however it comes very close and is currently the ONLY one touching sand at this point.

I've also been taking "peeks" if you will into the future of the MMO genre with all the alphas and betas I'm in currently, and I have to say....the genre continues to be dumbed down and lifeless of almost every aspect.



Fri Nov 21 2008 12:03PM Report
Trashcantoy writes:

i pretty much agree with you on everything, except that i dont feel the mmo genre is becoming stale/unoriginal. i too played AO as first mmo, great game ;)

i see it like this: when people have too much time on their hands they start complaining, if u keep em busy with nice games (or work....) they will feel satisfied and see no reason to bitch on some upcoming star wars game that will release in a year or so

Fri Nov 21 2008 12:27PM Report
Rollotamasi writes:

I think some people are missing my point a bit.  I agree that sometimes the genre feels stale and unoriginal but the point i was trying to get accross was that I think we as gamers are too impatient.  Asking for major inovation from a industry that is only abnout 10 years old is like asking for the flying car 10 years after the model T came out. 

Fri Nov 21 2008 12:50PM Report
wyrde writes:

The problem isn't so much with the developers (programmers/writers/artists) as it is with the companies themselves.  I've seen the same thing happen in several companies--in several industries, not just entertainment and IT--over the years.  What an innovative, exciting and dynamic company does very well. As they do well, they do what any sensable company would: they seek more resources (funding, venture capital, etc etc).

But in order to attract that funding they have to conform to the standards that those willing to fund expect. That means they have to become structured and organized with a clear--at least on paper--flowchart of their processes. And in order to do that they must in turn hire those that are supposedly experts in the field of business management. These people know what they understand, and only understand what they are familiar with. And hire more people just like them. The result is a wall that is built in the companies that stifles innovation. Internal resources are not spent on improvement or innovation but on maintaining the company's status in the industry. (Note: things like expansion packs or updates and bug fixes are not improvements in this context--they are expected over a product's lifetime.)

The industry simply isn't old enough to have pushed their way through this wall... and until the wall comes down the respective companies, and those that seek to compete, will simply resound as the same thing.

The MMO market isn't stale because the developers lack ideas and innovation... it's because of middle management bloat. 



Fri Nov 21 2008 12:52PM Report
wyrde writes:

While it may not seem like it at first glance, my comment agrees with Rollotamasi--though for different reasons.

Fri Nov 21 2008 12:54PM Report
Rollotamasi writes:

"While it may not seem like it at first glance, my comment agrees with Rollotamasi--though for different reasons."

Naw, I think we agree for the same reasons, you just explained a part of It more in depth I did.  I said the MMO industry needed time to mature and grow to innovate and you explained one of the reasons that time helps IE breaking though those walls.

Thanks for the comment

Fri Nov 21 2008 12:59PM Report
Leoheart writes:

I agree eve is an original game but one thing i hate about it is it's alot of waiting and not much else. Anarchy-online wasin't my first mmo but by far my most favored, and plenty original, fact i still get wet dreams about it. but though the mmo's all seam to run together and seam alike, (i swear i was seeing a copy of Ao with better graphics with tabula rasa) things are starting to look up. personaly i can't wait for stargate worlds to come out. also meny of the other mmo's promise us smarter AI's better graphics newer concepts and better overall gameplay, though we hit a bland drag with wow and wow alikes it looks like some original ideas are poping out. 

Fri Nov 21 2008 1:02PM Report
Rollotamasi writes:

"i can't wait for stargate worlds to come out"

As you can tell from my avatar I am a huge stargate fan and was really looking forward to SGW but I am not so sure at this point.  I can't shake this feeling that it is going to be to much like TR and the combat is going to be boring.

Fri Nov 21 2008 1:06PM Report
LiquidWolf writes:

This is the age of technology, information, communication, and imagination shared all at the speed of light in many cases.

Everyone grabbed onto the model T and expanded on it... copied it... and once it reached a point that you could buy a car from ANY manufacturer without there being much difference... that's where we once again hit the area of originality and creation.

Right now Blizzard holds 12 million subs... there will be NO originality or innovation until all MMO players are evenly spread out amongst the different companies in the industry.

Granted it won't be "even"... but right now the gap is SO large... just getting 1 million-3million subs would be WORTH copying Blizzard.

Until this ends, the industry will not change.

Fri Nov 21 2008 1:10PM Report
Kalles writes:

Im impresed with your blog.. Good point's, but what is men when you take his hope.. just empty shell..

Fri Nov 21 2008 1:25PM Report
tastethegold writes:

they need to innovate on a much deeper level than they have. i want to see a game that actually REQUIRES a 3d mouse to play. or games that let you have the UI on an actual HUD instead of having it clutter the screen, the same games i would hope would make use of head tracking. force feedback mice CAN be made by hacking a normal mouse, but why not actually make them a normal part of gaming? what about using the thousands of web cams out there to use your real face on characters? what ever happened to that idea?

to me the innovations are mostly social and useless, the wii is the only real innovation in gaming since the dreamcast.

Fri Nov 21 2008 1:38PM Report
Litchfield writes:

Join darkfall fanbois...we have cookies

Fri Nov 21 2008 1:44PM Report
Leoheart writes:

Would be sweet if they made SGW FPSMMORPG just put a attack and delay timer on the weppons.

Fri Nov 21 2008 1:46PM Report
caemsg writes:

You will note that all the publishers that are changeing and innovating are Indy companies a big Company Wont put out a innovative game because they dont have to Indy companies have to be both innovative and responsive to their communities because every player they get or lose is a large portion of their income

Additionally with your car analogy Cars are built for a porpus they transport people nothing more and there is only so  much you can do with that

games on the other hand are a creative industry its sole porpous is to create diffrent games to entertain diffrence and creativity is the lifeblood of the industry and devlopers and publishers are loseing that life blood and wonder why they get slammed so yes it is entierly fair to expect so much from the industry its what the industry was created for and its not forfulling its role


there fore we are compleatly right to say the MMO industry has shat itself and is broken when you only have indy companies doing any devlopment your industry is broken

Fri Nov 21 2008 4:24PM Report
Mequellios writes:

There are still many avenues that the MMO genre hasn't explored. We still don't have ANYONE in the commercial industry working on a zombie survival MMO (or at least, announced it). I've been waiting for one of those for years. An MMO that actually requires you to stay alive with food and shelter. An MMO that isn't just about tearing down another mob because if you do, your guns will echo for miles, ringing the dinnerbell for hundreds of more zombies. It would be huge.

Zombies are so big in gaming but for some reason no one does them. We finally got an official zombie FPS (Left 4 Dead) outside of the Resident Evil series. How long did it take for them to realize that's what players wanted? Sometimes, the companies just need to wake up.

Fri Nov 21 2008 4:28PM Report
rounner writes:

The car analogy is a little ironic. Ford is crying for handouts, claiming the down turn is a general collapse of the economy. Rather they need to face up to the truth that times have changed and people want much more efficient hybrids not the same old guzzlers. Capiche?

Fri Nov 21 2008 5:09PM Report
Zoomzoo writes:

Without your going into detail about what you mean by lack of innovation, I can't really comment.  I'm definitely a malcontent, but that is generally because the challenges in the games have become silly and stale.  Who cares if you die if the only penalty is that you revive closer to where you were traveling to anyway?  Who cares if you have to make a corpse run if you are immune during that run?  Who cares if you are playing solo and you can easily run around epic mobs (because there is absolutely no way - none - that you could possibly defeat them)?  If I can kill 3 to 7 mobs that are at my level with little effort - who cares?  Who cares if crafting involves no skill whatsoever and is simply a timesink - and the stuff you craft isn't as good as the standard random drops from the mobs right outside the city?  I could go on and on, but I'm sure you get the picture.  When I don't give a hoot about whether my over-powered character lives or dies and I'm simply focused on the end game so I can parade around the city and show off my terrific armor or flaming weapon that I got as a random drop from an epic mob that I and 35 other players killed - who cares? 

The answer is - no one cares, and the genre is beginning to die.

In my opinion it is not lack of innovation that is the problem, it is that the entire genre is becoming carebear as it caters to 8 year olds. 

Fri Nov 21 2008 5:34PM Report
tastethegold writes:

zombie based games are for retards, (except maybe fallout3). the innovation we are looking for is hardware based, realise it or not.

it has zip to do with fps/platformer mmorgs (fusion fall is cool as shit though) the fact is we need hardware innovation (and i dont care if the wow kiddies mommies wont pay for it) innovation comes at a price. without deeper immersion the whole industry is shit. i dont care if there is a gundam mmo, if it consists of the same pansy sequencing that keeps wow players coming back for more it is auto-shit.

Fri Nov 21 2008 5:58PM Report
Khalathwyr writes:

I don't think we're too a point. By that I mean, I'm 31 (started with UO) and while I'm not interested at all in the Themepark-WoW forumla for making a game, if a AAA company put some serious effort in a skill based (UO, AC) MMO with sandbox (directed placement non-instanced housing, more detailed crafting system than SWG at launch, space faring or ocean going travelling and combat system, ground mount or vehicle combat system) elements along with and well crafted overall story (that was there to follow if you wanted to, but not mandatory to follow).

I'd pay $20/month for that kind of an MMO. But making that kind of an MMO launching with ALL of said feature at a quality level isn't an interesting proposition to any of the developement company CEOs out there. 

Fri Nov 21 2008 5:58PM Report
_Seeker writes:

I agree with your arguement. Thats the way the world is. But it doesn't mean I or anyone else has to like it. Things should be different.

Companies deliberately slow down innovation in order to milk every cent from products or ideas. If Blizzard has +10 million subs and they can release an expansion pack and charge for it. They can make money easily. They could spend the money they make on monthly fees developing a totaly new gaming experience. But if they did that they wouldn't get as large a profit. That's what it's all about.

Fri Nov 21 2008 6:05PM Report
Dracain writes:

I completly agree that the industry is rather young, it really does need more time to grow, though some of the games coming do seem to be original.  Also, I know this is a bit off topic but, Ragnarok Online released in 2001, and has pvp, pve, dungeons and all the mmo trappings, so WOW wasn't the big innovation you pointed out, WOW is just much better advertised. 

Fri Nov 21 2008 6:43PM Report
dcostello writes:

 Hmmm, seems like everyone is a malcontentist.  Well, I am too, but I think that complaining in a blog is ok, but it is in vain if doesn't reach developer's attention.  I have read the past couple blogs and they are mostly all malcontentist blogs, so why not group people together, and get your opinions heard?

 Things change, and deterministic/ pessimistic thinking doesn't influence change, it stifles it.

Fri Nov 21 2008 7:35PM Report
UsedManatee writes:

Hey Rollo, great post... I"m silently one of those guys too, and was a long-time EVE addict (went with my corp through the ups and down of being a BOB thrall that somehow, who can say why, had run of possibly the richest segment of the South despite the fact that we were OBVIOUSLY INCAPABLE of defending it - simply by number, not by ability...) ... Now I'm enjoying LOTRO because I'm in a group of mature players who have a really laid back attitude, and with whom I really enjoy hanging out with and questing on vox.  I had my several years of WoW raiding, which was interesting at the time but only really so because I worked with one of my guildmates and we had a lot of out of game time too.

Honestly, right now I have to tell you I'm heading back to my roots - and I mean my ROOTS.  Graphical MMO, I started with UO like a lot of other folks.  I'm 4 years older than you, and like so many I was not blown away by UO and EQ because they were new concepts.  Not at all... Rather, i was blown away because they were just like the text-based MUDs which I had been addicted to for years only sporting a nice, pretty GUI skin!  WoW finally perfected that, actually, having what I consider to be the most responsive player interface/control set in the genre...  Anyway, I've been re-visiting the world of MUDs because despite not having any graphics, at all, there are still some developers out there who are innovating on a daily basis.  Sadly some of my favorite haunts are gone now, but there are some MUDs now which were new at the time that have become well-vetted classics in their own right (Aardwolf, Retromud, Materia Magica, Torilmud and the other Sojourn descendants)...

For me, the future is in the past... I will stick with LOTRo because I have a lifetime account, I've still got an open WoW account but may close it... I may give Darkfall a chance (if it actually exists , beware trolls) ... but I'm definitely about to get back into the old text grind. 

Where there is no budget, innovation is not constrained by budget - except for the budget of time.

Fri Nov 21 2008 7:55PM Report
hanshotfirst writes:

What I am trying to figure out is if I am truly becoming a malcontent or if I am simply out growing gaming (Or at least outgrowing MMO’s)...

Honestly, and speaking from personal experience, I suspect it's mostly the latter.

I'm not denying that philosophies and design goals have changed somewhat over the years, but let's be honest: it's all too easy to point blame outward, rather than take stock of ourselves.

I can't speak for everyone, but I think many of us are trying to rekindle that "first love" experience. And again, let's be honest, most of our fondest memories are more self-contrived fiction than reality.

Fri Nov 21 2008 8:03PM Report
Pepsipwnzgod writes:

stop crying about people not being original,  you cant have a constant flow of originality, give it a few years, yea i said years, someone will think of something useful but until then dont QQ because YOUR game doesnt have more subs then any of the ones out..

Fri Nov 21 2008 9:17PM Report
Loke666 writes:

10 years now is a far longer time than it was 100 years ago. The hardware changes very fast, hopefully in 10 years we will finally have virtual reality MMOs (Right now we don't have enough memory for that) and things will have changed a lot.

I personally think that the reason that the market stopped is that we have 1 big company that controls most of the customers, monopoly usually leads to slower change. It doesn't help that most companies think that if they copy the game they will be succesful.

If the market would be splitted among several games things will start to speed up and this is bound to happen sooner or later.

Sat Nov 22 2008 4:51AM Report
DocSpencer writes:

 I belive it's the MMO industry. I find that the more games I play betas for and the more games I just find randomly the more I feel myself thinking "Why do I even play these?"  They're all just WoW with everything renamed. I'm not very fond of WoW because it is too mindless and costs $15, but I don't even  like the free WoW clones that have a better story. As for Eve being a sandbox, that's only partially true to me. A real sandbox is a game like Darkfall online, where EVERYTHING can be made by players and its a pvp with no safe zones. My opinion is that the only game bringing this industry forwards is Darkfall. I counted over 50 features never-before used in an MMO and it looks amazing. Check it out if you have no hope for the industry.

Sat Nov 22 2008 7:29AM Report
Snikes writes:

The crappiest part of the MMO industry is ourselves, the player community. We became lazzy, soloists, cheaters... Most of us are complaining about todays games but be honest, how bugged or empty were DAOC, Eve, EQ at launch ?... I loved Eve, I took part in great battles, saw amazing stories going on in that universe, but who made these stories ? The players themselves. I had fun in DAOC's RvR and ML rushes but was it really better than today raids or PvP ? The community was better, there were charismatic guild or BG leaders...

Todays games have hard times we became a massive crowd of whiners who wants to be able to p0wn anyone on 1vs1 PVP fight everytime, be able to solo the whole game up to the max level and we don't hesitate to buy insane amounts of money to goldsellers to get  the best stuff. We are the reason why these games have poor PvP, poor PvE and a crappy economy.

... Well btw, I'm in my thirties. Maybe am I also getting to old for video games :) (God I hope not ! )

Sat Nov 22 2008 11:07AM Report
Leoheart writes:

mmo's are far from young. theres a rule that every 2 years computers get twice as fast and twice as cheep. my first mmo was when i was 9 not talking about muds now i'm 20 and i would like something that wasin't slaped together with a bell here a whistle there. were consumers we don't even scratch what these companys can do were just too content and don't complain enough to move them to do something. if a group of engineers can create a virtual to life boxing game in two weeks SURLY a multi million dollar company can come up with something new. i don't care if i have to pay 30$ even 50$ a month for a super kick ass game. take lineage one for example  NO ONE there likes that they changed from US format to korean but they suck it up and keep playing w/o saying anything. Anarchy-online? they want there new graphics engine thats been sitting on the shelf for the past 2 years, for god sake some programmer stick the dang disc in already, sadly they sent all the programmers to AoC cause it's new and it makes more money saying screw the other paying players. eve online? they've been working on a new control system for the ships for years and still not out. all these game saving changes are basicly sitting on the shelf but these companies don't care we are to content with what we have.

Sat Nov 22 2008 11:51AM Report
joeyboots writes:

I believe WOW has been a boon and a bane on our beloved hobby. It has been a boon by bringing millions of new people into the mmo scene who have never played an mmo before. It has been a bane by doing this same thing, because all these millions of players think that wow is the end-all be-all of mmo gaming, and this has stifled creativity and/or or prevented new games with original ideas from succeeding.

Sat Nov 22 2008 2:23PM Report
Pyuk writes:

I'm 43 and feel the same. I don't think it's the age, I think it's the genre.

Sat Nov 22 2008 5:16PM Report
Reianor writes:

Join the game industry doomsayers! We don't have cookies, but we have insurance - the right to say "It all went as we predicted".

It's not that people are expecting changes to come faster than possible, MMO genre is an innovation itself and it didn't take an age of boredom for them to appear.

It's just that game industry is getting less of games and more of industry. There's a new "breed" of gamers, who don't care what they play, as long as it's killing time and has pretty pictures. Well, they breed as rabbits, and old gamers are dieing-out. What's the point of risking resourses on attemnting an innovation that would please us dinosaurs, when you can take a trademark put in the nice box and sell it? On top of that you can add some themed junk to that box and get a "limited edition", then you can port it, expand it a few times, and by the time that cow has no milk there's another one waiting. Sure, not every junk is sellable like that, but next to every TM can be milked for atleast one time.

On the other hand we have what's left of old gamers wishing for "something new". A catch is that every gamer want's his "new stuff" and not someone's "silly ideas". In the end it's too hard to get a customer base for an "innovative game". 1 new idea won't keep gamers happy, 2 new ideas will gather even less gamers than 1 idea.

As far as industry giants are concerned, we can all pack up and take the next train to non-existence. They DO know that "there's been no innovative ...", "games are getting casual...", "we're tired of paying for junk...", and whatever else gamers complain about. The problem is that there are 2 types of developers - those who milk casuals, and those who struggle for survival. None of those two types is going to "take up arms and restore the game industry as we knew it".

Besides, old gamers' appetites grow - there are gameplay-oriented games out there (not shure about mmo's) but most gamers will forget about them as soon as they see 1st screenshot. And 4D graphics, with indirect Y 20 functions shure eat resourses, which new game companies don't have. Nor do they have resourses to hype, or buy a trademark. Now, even if one gets all that and a couple of fresh ideas, no one guaranties success. It's natural that no one is willing to risk enough money to start a busyness, while seeing others loosing their busyness on exactly what one's about to start.

So, yes, Gamers do get old and wishy, yes, game industry isn't "progressing" (in terms of game enjoyment), an no, our collective whining isn't going to change a thing.

Whatever we attempt against milking, it's like trying to stab a D&D troll with a dagger and waiting for it to bleed to death. We can shout we, can cry, we can write petitions,we can refuse to buy junk, heck, for all milkers care we can even commit mass suicide - they have all the milk suckers they need, to keep the assembly lines working (damn Ford for those).

There's only one thing capable of kicking an industry giant hard enought for him, to start caring about customers, or moving the hell out of the way. That's...[drumbeat]... competition! Yep, unless we get a decent number of decent people, who know how to code, how to design a game, and how to balance between money grabing and poverty, it's all a hopeless struggle.

Sat Nov 22 2008 6:13PM Report
nomadian writes:


I think some people are missing my point a bit. I agree that sometimes the genre feels stale and unoriginal but the point i was trying to get accross was that I think we as gamers are too impatient. Asking for major inovation from a industry that is only abnout 10 years old is like asking for the flying car 10 years after the model T came out. [/quote]

How old are other genres before they started making 'innovations' or leaps? Sorry you just got me wondering when you make that statement, a little bit wrong to compare it to car industry I think:p

Hmm going on a sidetrack but in regards to the original post and innovation I think if we're brutally honest it is there- I mean Auto Assault, Ryzom, Tabula Rasa except maybe we're not flocking to them or we're looking for an A+ title to come along in a genre which seems pretty tight on this score.

Sat Nov 22 2008 7:13PM Report
local93bc writes:

I think the comunity has evolved into somthing diffrent then when i started. Its impatient yes but many othere things too. Players are so used to playing mmos now, its really changed the hole feel.


I to am 29. and have been off Mmo's for a few years due to feeling that i have out grown Online games. And i think i know why I feel this way.


I resently subed to WAR and, am amazed how much the Mmo comunity has changed....  I can't stand the majority of Online players in WAR. 

Sat Nov 22 2008 9:29PM Report
Leoheart writes:

the drama queens get ya did they? players went from working tword a goal, to becoming 14 and 16 year old highschool girls with gosip and drama.

Sat Nov 22 2008 11:14PM Report writes:
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