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Paragus Rants

Rants, reviews, and interviews from an MMO veteran and guild leader.

Author: Paragus1

Rant: The Old Republic

Posted by Paragus1 Wednesday November 30 2011 at 1:09PM
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Rant:  The Old Republic

I already know what you're  thinking, "not another TOR article",  believe me when I say I can't take it anymore either.  Let's face it, TOR is slated to be the next big thing on the MMO scene so you're going to be subjected to every derp's opinion on it.  I've sat and watched quiety reading and digesting everything TOR related the last few weeks, so here is one more derp sounding off.

If you read the title of this, you probably realized on your way in here that the "TLDR" version of what is beyond this point can be summed up by a simple "I don't like TOR".  If the foam is starting to accumulate around your mouth at the thought of someone not liking your new precious, save yourself the torches and pitchforks to run me out of town, I'll go wait in exile happily with the rest of the people who just can't take the insanity anymore because I know in the end most people will figure out what the sane among us already know.   If you like where this is going and ready to ride this storm out with me, come gather around the fire friend.  If you can't handle it, just click your bookmark in the browser to your favorite TOR fan site.

The one thing that never ceases to amaze me is how fickle the MMO community is, and how astonishingly short memories are when it comes to watching what happens to every MMO hype train that passes through this station with all the fanfaire.  The Old Republic is the poster child of why I haven't been able to bring myself to seriously commit to an MMO for the last 2 years.   Am I the only one sitting here completely dumbfounded by the fact that people don't realize that the TOR train looks almost identical to the last dozen that came through here?  This is MMO insanity.   We are literally doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.

I know it's Bioware.   I enjoyed Dragon Age and Mass Effect as much as the next guy.   I know it's Star Wars, or at least it is supposed to be.   I know they spent more on this game than any other MMO ever made to date.  But when you remove your emotional attachments from the IP, the company making it, and all the other bullshit, it is the same game that has come through here time and time again that has ended with massive burnout in the 60-90 day mark.

What really baffles me is how hard they doubled down financially to make what is a glorified Star Wars mod of an MMO that walks exactly in the footsteps of the previous games, footsteps that lead right over a cliff.  Reports are they spent well over $100 Million, and I'm just scratching my head trying to figure out where all the money went.

So we got the same generic UI as the previous MMOs, actually worse in some ways because it lacks some of the customization functionality of the others.  We have a weaker character creation and customization than we saw in some of the previous games.  We have the same generic facerolling combat system ported over.  We have the same quest content designed for lowest common denominator that involves our hero / sith lord collecting animal hides.  We also somehow managed to turn the prospect of PvP on an intergallactic scale and reduce it down to Hutt Ball.  So by looking at this we can clearly conclude that they didn't spend the bulk of their cash on the actual gameplay, because every other MMO debacle has done all this for a lot less money.

What is supposed to set this game apart? Is it the story?   The story that pretty much puts you in the same place regardless of the choices you make?  I sure as hell hope for their sake that they weren't counting on the voice acting to keep people paying month after month.  What is it about the story that justifies them collecting a monthly fee?  Skyrim offers everything TOR does in terms of voice acting and story, and at the same time gives you an massive open world, real quests that don't make you feel like a UPS driver trapped in a galaxy far away, and no monthly fee to boot!

How much of their massive budget did they spend reskinning Star Fox and putting into this game just for the sake of saying there is space combat?  The only thing missing is having Peppy's face popping up on the screen telling me to do a barrell roll.   They managed to get the most open environment known to mankind, outter space, and even turn that into a linear on the rails theme park ride akin to space mountain.

I just can't help but think that TOR might be the greatest wasted opportunity the MMO genre has seen in years.   You literally had one of the greatest IPs ever created, one with so much lore that it is nearly impossible to consume it all.   You had the biggest budget an MMO has ever seen to make this glorious IP into a reality, and you squandered it by making a dumbed down reskin of every failed MMO before it, and you did it on the hopes that your fate would somehow be different than theirs.  It's not even a theme park vs sandbox arguement.  I can understand the appeal of a theme park game, and I don't mind one every now and then.   It's the fact that Star Wars deserves better than this, and the fact that they took the low road in all the areas that count the most that actually keep people playing.  To me, this type of dumbed down gameplay does not justify a monthly fee.  If you removed Star Wars from this game and it had to stand purely based on the merits of gameplay, this would be an intergallactic failure and be seen for the mediocrity that it truly is.

Don't get me wrong, if you enjoy TOR and maybe you are new to the MMO genre and find it fresh, I don't think any less of you.  But as someone who has been around the block a while and seen a lot, I'll be the asshole and say I hope TOR ends up just as bad as all the games that came before it that did the exact same thing.  The madness needs to stop with this genre and with the amount of money at stake here in TOR, a failed TOR will send a resounding message to future bottom-peddling developers that going down this road is not worth the investment.  Unfortunately for the rest of us going into exile to watch this one from the sidelines, it probably won't be the case.

Flame on...


Co-Leader of Inquisition


Nightfyre writes:

You sir have summed up my feelings and what I've been saying about this game.  I wish the MMO community would wake up and realize this is not the game we need... we need something new that breaks away from the wow/rift gameplay not copy 90% of them.

Been playing MMO's since Meridian 59 and I've played a good chunk of MMO's.  I miss the days of Everquest where groups were almost forced upon if you wanted to survive an area.  I miss them because you would group and socialize with others, now it's more solo based MMO's games unless you want to dungeon or raid.

Wed Nov 30 2011 2:57PM Report
Teala writes:

I know exactky how you feel.   I was, in reality, looking forward to playing SW:ToR, then I got into beta and saw this travesty of a game and realized I was testing a game that isn't even half as good as WoW.  Even my beta experience in Rift was better than SW:ToR.   Not that I am a fan of Rift, but Rift is more engrossing than SW:ToR.   I too, ask myself, wtf was Bioeware thnking?  Where is the game?   And you are right - Star Wars deserves better than this.

Wed Nov 30 2011 4:07PM Report
undeadcat writes:

i've had nothign but a great time in the beta, that being said the space combat is a joke. althought they have stated that the current space combat is just a filler and will be fleshed out down the road in some expansion or other.

Wed Nov 30 2011 7:46PM Report
cruelcynic writes:

Sums it up rather well. I have been in the beta for many months now and have not so much as logged in for weeks. It just has no lasting draw.

Wed Nov 30 2011 11:43PM Report
Mishine81 writes:

The world would be a better place if we shared the same opinions, but in this case i am thrilled i dont.

After playing lots and lots of different MMO's i am glad we finaly got something refreshing. Sure it has wow elements, but what MMO doesnt.

On a sidenote. I am really getting sick of people like you and others, no matter what game they play. Its just the contineus bashing on mmo's from wow to starwars saying it sucks because of several reasons. The players who play it are dumb and should wake up. Find your own game to play, enjoy it and be happy. Be happy for the other millions of people who proberly will play this game at launch and hope they have a good time. Same for example wow, even though i am not a fan of it anymore i know lots of people who play it and i am happy for them. If thats a good way to fill there time, go ahead!

Thu Dec 01 2011 12:28AM Report
rsreston writes:

Unfortunately, I have to agree with everything.

"I sure as hell hope for their sake that they weren't counting on the voice acting to keep people paying month after month." - best sentence.

I'm not gonna pre-order. I'm going to play it, for good, but I'll wait until it goes F2P - soon, I'd say. I love SW, I loved the storyline I've played this past weekend, but I'm not sure there's enough replay beyond going through each of the classes' stories, specially now that I know about the mirrored classes.

Thu Dec 01 2011 8:10AM Report
shaon94 writes:


Yeah I see this as a F2P title within 6 months tops, but with how much money they spent on it they will problably just cut their loses and go the way of the dodo.  This to me is really sad I love BioWare and I think they really messed up on this one.

Thu Dec 01 2011 8:24AM Report
sfly2000 writes:

I think this game just elavates how silly all theese games are. I mean this is such a thourough copy of WoW that it is even better than WoW itself...

Really...some things I saw in the beta felt quite refreshing. The story and how the whole world hangs together somehow.

It has a solid Bioware-feel to it.

Apart from being the same kind of stereotypical MMO that I loathe....

For me like Mortal Online or GW2 is not enough either....I do agree that MO looked somewhat different though...but its straight out action then....maybe like DDO and not really a roleplaying game the way I see it....

Thu Dec 01 2011 10:07AM Report
Paragus1 writes:

I don't believe for one minute that space combat in its current form is some sort of placeholder.   I remember when Mythic removed 4 capital cities from Warhammer right before release saying those would be in right after launch, and they still never made it.   It's a good thing Mythic has nothing to do with TOR......oh wait.

Thu Dec 01 2011 10:21AM Report
CyanK writes:

So this game starts to bleed players after about three months, that puts us into April. If TSW can stay on track for an April release they stand to benefit from the 3 month burnout star wars seems likely to suffer from.

Thu Dec 01 2011 10:22AM Report
MatriarcheX writes:

I foresee all that the OP has mentioned will come to pass.

Thu Dec 01 2011 3:14PM Report
stayontarget writes:

Bingo you nailed it OP.   If you removed all the names associated with this game, people would totally trash it because the simple fact is Tor is trash for the amount of money they put in it.

Shame on BW - EA - LA  for killing an IP.


~Rest in peace SW~

Thu Dec 01 2011 4:41PM Report
claude1864 writes:

George Lucas should be Tarred and feathered for killing SWG for swtor. SWG has gotten better now that SOE has added all of things they should have added years ago. George has stabbed us star wars fans in the back to make a quick buck and yes in a year, maybe 2. George will stab us all again, while heading to the bank.

I was there in 1977 when episode 4 came out. I saw it so many times the theater put a brass plate on a front row seat with my name on it. I have had many relationships in my life but none broke my heart as bad as ole george.

Thu Dec 01 2011 8:00PM Report
Quethalos writes:

Ill pick up my pitchfork, however i do this with a more broad prospective.  Having played MMO's for almost 15 years, i have come to learn 3 things.  

1:) Your going to find flaws in every game you play!

 I dont want a perfect game! I want to be able to actually put a title down and possibly play another game when it comes out.  Sure there may be better games out there then the one that i am playing currently.  I love that about the market.  I have choices!

2:) Haters will be haters, and Fanboys will be fanboys!

If you dont like a game, get over it! you dont have to like it but save your breath, for every hater out there there is a fanboy.  You shoudnt need someone to affirm that you arent the only one that doesnt like something.  The game you finally play will have just as many haters as the one you just bashed 2 posts ago.

On the Fanboy side, I just hope that the game lets you enjoy the ROLEPLAYING (lets not forget that its in the title for a reason, not just to make it a longer acronym!) aspect of it.  If you like it. Kudos! Enjoy your new home!

3:) MMORPGS are a business, and they want money!

Sure LA/BW spent a fortune on this game.  I run a business myself and know you gotta spend a buck to make one.  Who cares how much they spend.  If they make 150 mil a year, good for them.  It gives them money to attempt to make more games.... more chances for you to love/hate them!  At least this is money spent towards your entertainment.  Not like a bank that takes your money then charges you to get it out!  Wana complain, go yell at your bank that charges you 2 dollars to take out 20!

  To think that developers dont have you in mind is foolish.  You are their bread and butter.  They sit for hours in meetings trying to figure out what will piss people off the least!  Blue hair or red hair, Blaster or lightsaber.  Those little things go underappreciated.  They have to make a choice, and most of the time those choices are carefully evaluated!  Someone will always come out upset!

   Even the smallest animations and cutscenes cost a fortune to make!  It maybe just a few flashes of light for you, but for the developer it was a week/months worth of hard work with bosses screaming over their shoulders!  75% of their work just got trashed at the last meeting because it just didnt make the grade.


At the end of the day, your going to have to log on to a game.  Which game will that be.  WHO CARES, as long as you are happy when you play it.  Its maybe 15 bucks a month (title maybe cost 75).  Hell i was entertained just writing this.  I appreciate the fact that i can play a lot of games for not a lot of money.  And i hope the industry keeps spitting out titles.  Maybe ill settle down with 1 title fore more then a year again,  (I loved everquest) maybe not.  But i just hope haters wont burn out the developers and that they keep trying!  I Myself will continue to play the new games that come out with the idea that, they arent going to blow me away, and that there will always be another game with ideas that come off the shoulders of another game.  And that maybe 1 day someones gonna get the whole package right, but you wont see me bitching my way to happiness, im not that unhappy on the inside!


Fri Dec 02 2011 1:21AM Report
alakram writes:

After trying it in last beta weekend I got the same feeling, it's just a common mmo. Of course you are right but I'm afraid the game is going to be a success, really.

Fri Dec 02 2011 6:19AM Report
alkarionlog writes:

well SWtor is a nice Single Player if you ask me nothing else, also if peeps show me pics of the game and telling its was a kotor3 I would belive,

swtor is no where near a MMO, but comming from DA2 and ME 2 lame gameplay i'm sure in saying bioware don't have anything anymore who amke then good back then, be it EA or the even bioware who sold his soul for the money god.


we can be sure of something at least, with luck after this they will stop giving so much money on crappy things, and I swear if a news came telling us people in the dev of swtor steal money from it during the dev time would make me feel less dirty, because I never even knewn how much money EA tossed on it, but if really was that number, I swear, americans can't make mmos, leave it to koreans or japanese hell even that chinese games work better.

Fri Dec 02 2011 1:49PM Report
toddze writes:

Agree with this blog 110%. Once the new game appeal wears off this game will be dead in the water.

Fri Dec 02 2011 11:29PM Report
CrowInvictus writes:

You are one hunderd percent right with the facts. I will not argue a single one. Save one. TOR is not a bad game (a game I like.) WoW is not a bad game (a game I like.) Planetside is not  abad game (a game I liked and the only commonality with is that it's and mmo.)  You don't like it? Okay. I do and I'm gong to play it. I'mll pay $15 dollars a month for it. I'm not alone.

But that's not the point I'm trying to make.  The pint I'm trying to make is that, these kinds of games don't need to stop existing for something else to be good. Bioware themselves are making both a RPG franchise (Dragon Age) and a Shooter franchise (Mass Effect, it's more shooter then rpg.) More then one genre or style within that genre can exist.

I don't want you to stop complaining about TOR however, do so, say what you want from a game or else you may never see it. However, I ask you do not insult me for liking or be willing to $15 a month to play a game.

Sat Dec 03 2011 5:03AM Report
CrowInvictus writes:

Pardon the double post but I can't seem to find an efit button. I ment to say that WoW is a game I don't like.

Sat Dec 03 2011 5:04AM Report
Skuz writes:

Everything you say is true & I wholeheartedly agree with it, & yet I'll still play because I love Star Wars & the one thing it does create is the right atmosphere, will that be enough? All depends how the end-game shapes up I think.

Sat Dec 03 2011 6:21AM Report
hayes303 writes:

This would be the quietest forum in the universe if they took out all the threads that were STWOR bashing. The OP is right about one thing in particular, this horse has been beaten to death. The stick is literally hitting the ground through the hole that has been bashed right though the middle of this.

Sat Dec 03 2011 4:34PM Report
MurlockDance writes:

Good blogpost! I am reading up on lots of peoples' comments about ToR to make up my mind if I want to eventually get it since I do not have time to beta anything at the moment. Lots of positive comments on the game, but reading between the lines, things like what you bring up are making me wonder if it really is as good as they say. I do not see at the moment why I should leave either EQ2 or WoW for this game. Sure one could say, because it is new and shiny, but is that really enough, especially if there is nothing beyond the story that is really as good as what those two titles offer?

Sun Dec 04 2011 3:42AM Report
Ruinal writes:

It sure is a regular MMO and a waste of the SW ip, but so what. I'll enjoy it for what it is (KOTOR3,4,5 with multiplayer) and move on.

As for 'success' or 'failure' they'll probably make their money back off of box sales (like 'failures' STO & AoC), and I agree there just isn't enough there to keep people playing past 3 months at the outside currently. Whether they get enough of a player turnover or content in to make it a longer term success remains to be seen.

Sun Dec 04 2011 5:51AM Report
Soultice writes:

I commented on Teal's eview and got blasted hehe .  I honestly felt like I have done all of this before except we now have galactic skins.  The game is all abou soloing.  I know I know players that want to solo spend their moeny too.  I really do nto care.  Gones are the days where you had to think and you had to be careful.  Do I think xp loss was fun? No but it is really getting dumbed down now. 

I beta tested as well and after playing Biowares excellent PC games they might break the mold and alas they just copied it and made it even more boring.  The combat I liked, the stroylines were great.  I am not one that wants to listen to these darn voice acting scenes forever nor should I have too.  I can see when you get good or evil points but enough already.  The UI is basic and the character customization is poorly done.  For a modern game it seem like we are going backwards. 

I actually got sick of running all over the noob zone.  Get me trained on your UI if I do not know how to use it and get me into the meat of the game.  6 or 7 hours of play time to exit the noob zone puts you too sleep.

I hope the game does well for Bioware but there is nothing new here and actually I consider it offering less for the moeny.

Sun Dec 04 2011 4:54PM Report
Classicstar writes:

When they first annouce TOR and said it would be a themepark similar to WoW i already knew i would not play it.

All tho i like Starwars.

And now many years later seen couple of gameplay movies plus many previews of players im even after all these years right about my dicision not to follow and play this crappy themepark.

Its casual themepark crap thats been released million times before already in past 7 years.

I hope it dies QUICK.

Mon Dec 05 2011 7:55AM Report
Classicstar writes:

@blackbox If you would have said this is bioware 6 years ago i would have agree with you back then.

They where still very good gamemaker and not tied up with EA but last few years they have proofen not worth my attention anymore with there crappy games like DA2. Bioware is only intrested in making as much money as they can, not quality but quantity/$$$ is what counts.

Mon Dec 05 2011 8:00AM Report
casdegere writes: Character customization: This game has been designed for a smaller group of people in mind. Guilds of 50+ people will quickly find out that they are going to be mostly disconnected from one another. Small groups within that 50 that usually group with one another will experience the story on their own. And the game is not set up to intertwine the masses into your own storyline or game experience. It is designed for the group in mind. When there may be 2-3 characters of any one class in a group, what need is there for maximum character customization? The skill/ability trees are diverse enough to make a handful of unique characters but that’s about it. The story: I enjoy how it forces one to make a decision; a decision that is not only black and white but also, mostly grey. I.E. Save these people but sacrifice those. Space Combat: It is lacking and likely inputted to get it in. I am certain it will be revamped in the future. Summation: Most of these games now are designed with the Console in mind. Everything is streamlined and made more…simplistic. Gameplay is hardly competitive for PVE and the disconnect we all feel to these games comes from the “instance” way of creating a game now. “RPG now, no waiting.” If you have groups filled you are most likely set up to succeed. Not having to wait for a spawn or deal with other groups indirectly or directly working against you. It all feels very close to DDO to me and I did not play that for more than a few months. Mon Dec 05 2011 1:09PM Report
Thestache writes:

Wow...get outta my head Paragus. I had been in beta for awhile. stopped playing for a few days. I was really concerned that this game reminds me a lot of Champions Online, finish a quest, get directed to the next area, finish a quest, directed to the next area...etc. There is no deviating from the path, no matter the toon. The voice acting was cool...BUT THEN, I bought Skyrim. Now I understand that a RPG has a lot less to worry about than a MMO. However, all you have to do is look at WoW, and I hate to even bring it up. But, the BEST THING to me about WoW(I don't play anymore), was like Skyrim; if I do not want to go do the next quest, I don't have to, I can go wherever I want. TOR does not allow me to do that as it directs me to the next quest everytime, their is no open world feeling to me at all; it's more like a game on rails.

I cancelled my pre-order and will now wait and see what GW2 or TSW offers me.

Mon Dec 05 2011 2:27PM Report
Ruinal writes:

Thestache, sounds like you weren't in the same beta I was. After lvl 15 you *can* pick and choose where you go, there is a massive amount of optional content you can pick and choose from on each planet. The only rails you have questing-wise are your class story.

Dislike and tell people you cancelled pre-order blah blah blah trollolol all you like. But don't bs people.

Cas, yup it has 'dumbed down' written large all over it. If it launches as it was presented in beta, it has a few months play in it. Actually, reminds me of AoC 1-20, but holding true for 1-50. I didn't manage to experience any endgame, but time will tell.

Mon Dec 05 2011 6:30PM Report
FrodoFragins writes:

I don't understand all of the bashing.  It's by far the most polished and deep MMO release since WOW.


I do agree that people aren't going to want to pay a monthly fee just to level characters.  I'd buy the game in a heartbeat if leveling was free and your subscription allowed you to do instances and pvp.  That way I could play it like Skyrim and if I reached a point where I wanted the extra content I'd pay monthly.

Mon Dec 05 2011 8:39PM Report
Rhoms writes:

The game just didn't do anything for me.  Plain and simple.  This was very unfortunate because I was hoping that this IP was really going to take MMORPG gaming in a new direction outside the things we've seen done and redone.  Think of everything that could have been done with the Star Wars IP, and we are left with this?  I'm just so disappointed.

As an aside, they did one thing really really well - the CGI trailers.  Now those were loads of win.  I wish they would have put that sort of quality into the actual game.

Mon Dec 05 2011 10:28PM Report
stayontarget writes:

I'm sure it will be the perfect home for the burnt out wow fan.

Tue Dec 06 2011 5:46AM Report
garry writes:

Well well! Its your blog and you want to keep as your writing destination. Nothing more useful than a rant against something, much like newspapers, bad new sells. Perhaps you might try the tabloids, they love aliens and pregnant women, you might have even better luck there as well.


If that sounds too personal, well from your blog I thought it only fair to respond to your personall insult about those of us who disagree with you being 'insane'.  From there you plainly state that you do not like any aspect of TOR, specifically and generally. Your priviledge of course but I found it revealing that you haven't cared for ANY MMO for the last couple of years, your statement.


You interspaced your self styled 'rant' with clever little 'cutesy' denigrations to give a negative flavor to games and their fans. Hear the same from talk show hosts desperate for a better job as they try to be so clever.


Finally you finished with pulling yourself up on a pedestal (the ottoman?) and stating, as some sort of grand partriarch "been around the block and seen it all", called yourself an "asshole" (who am I to disagree) and hoped for TOR to fail. Then proceded to trash all the companies, players, devs and games in this dying industry. Patriarch indeed!


Bottom line (free speech remember) I read your rant and disagree with you. Not flaming, you flamed yourself. BTW your mom is calling for you to quit playing on that computer and come eat dinner. Have a nicer day.

Tue Dec 06 2011 1:10PM Report
TheSaint08D writes:

I cant tell you how excited I was for a bunch of upcoming MMOs awhile back and one by one they fell by the wayside.

My excitement for this game has left and I agree with the op completely. Now all my hopes rest on The Secret World. The last of the games Im still excited for.

If it fails I am done with MMOs and will quietly walk away from them forever. TOR beta broke my heart :( as did too many before, My gaming future now lies in Funcoms hand goddess save us all.

Tue Dec 06 2011 1:41PM Report
Garvon3 writes:

...What MMO doesn't have WoW elements? Thats the argument you are using to defend this?


How about... nonWoW clones? Aka, the majority of MMOs that haven't flopped. How anyone can call this "refreshing" is beyond me.

Tue Dec 06 2011 2:09PM Report
Paragus1 writes:


Thanks fo taking me to task over calling people who enjoy the game....oh wait....I didn't.  I even pointed out the fact that if you like it, then more power to you.  I think if you are new to the genre, or maybe WoW or one of its clones are the only MMOs you have ever played, I could see how it could be enjoyable.   There are a lot of people who fit that description, hence the high number of preorders.

The insanity is on the part of investors and developers who pour their resources into a formula that has been mass producing flops since 2004.  If you have been watching these flops fly off the runway and dive into the sea over and over the last few years like I have, then I think you could understand my lack of hype.

Yea I am an opinionated asshole.   And I know that to many people wishing failure on a game project is kind of an asshole thing to do.  I'm not self concious, I am self aware.   But that was a really good tirade there trying to drag my mom in and everything.

Tue Dec 06 2011 2:33PM Report
brindleburn writes:

I Loved my beta time in this game and can't wait to play at launch.

I have to say the more I levelled in Beta the better the game got for me. Love the companions system, VO, story, effects and aesthetics.

Strange that I can also see your point and agree. I have burnt out in the past on WOW and found every other MMO unsatisfying due mainly to lack of originality. In fact the only game I could play in my burnt out phase was Atlantica Online as it was so different.

Im just glad I have not played WOW for a long time now. I am refreshed and ready for SWTOR (but I'm torn, I like SWTOR so I  don't want it to fail but I also don't want for devs to keep using the same old formula).

Also note: I'm not knocking WOW just saying I have done it to death. I have many fond gaming memories playing with my brother, nephew, friends and cousins.

So roll on Christmas, time for pew pew lazers and lightsabers :)

PS. any devs reading this, remember this simple thing:

Creativity is a good thing :)

Tue Dec 06 2011 3:24PM Report
radszuweit writes:

I agree 100%.This feels like wow with different textures.

EPIC dissapointment.

I found:

If something will be better than EVE, sure - but havent found it yet.

Tue Dec 06 2011 6:33PM Report
Nipashnaka writes:

"What really baffles me is how hard they doubled down financially to make what is a glorified Star Wars mod of an MMO that walks exactly in the footsteps of the previous games, footsteps that lead right over a cliff. "

I find this tragic, but not necessarily baffling. Long philosophical arguments aside on why this is occuring and the state of the industry and the MMO hype/launch cycle, the simple fact is BioWare will probably make their money back in box sales. Not because BioWare is good or evil, but because BioWare is a business with investors and creditors. They make a product/service and sell it to customers. As long as customers buy their product/service to a degree which covers the investment and operating costs, in strict market terms it is a successful game.

It would be nice if the financial success for a game was tied to my personal qualitative measure of what makes a game good. But clearly, the markets and I disagree.

Tue Dec 06 2011 7:45PM Report
SuperXero89 writes:

What I would like to see from your next article is what exactly you expected SW:TOR to be or even what you personally felt like it should have been.

I know BioWare, and this game feels exactly like a traditional BioWare game molded into an RPG which is exactly what I expected.  Is the story as good as a single playe RPG?  No, not from what I've seen of it, but then again, there's a lot more "stories" to be played through, and given that it's a multiplayer title, certain concessions had to be made.  I don't doubt for a second that many of you whining about a lack of choice and consequence would whine just as much if BioWare gave that to you at the expense of more multiplayer features.

I would still say that I enjoy SW:TOR's PvE more than I've enjoyed PvE in any other MMORPG.  The dialogue in the cutscenes give quest NPCs some personality and actually draw me into the game world and make me care about my mission at hand.  At the end of the day, that's what matters.  I take a look at WoW's PvE and I take a look at SW:TOR's PvE.  I find that I enjoy SW:TOR's PvE more than WoW.  I couldn't say the same for LotRO, Rift, Aion, or any of the other MMORPGs I have tried.  

Also, don't short change the significance of the IP.  It's easy to say that if you stripped SW:TOR of the Star Wars IP that it would be nothing special.  You could honestly have said the same thing about World of Warcraft.  Without the Warcraft brand or Blizzard's name attached to it, would WoW have ever had the initial success which allowed it to eventually become the revenue generating monster it is today?  I'm not so sure, so there's a lot to be said for a game that's basically "WoW with a Star Wars skin."  That's really combining two of a lot of people's favorite things, so as long as SW:TOR can do what it does equal to or better than WoW, I think SW:TOR will be a success.

Tue Dec 06 2011 8:06PM Report
SuperXero89 writes:

and why was your tone so much different in this preview than your preview of Rift -- a game that is arguably even more of a WoW clone than SW:TOR?

Tue Dec 06 2011 10:19PM Report
IsilithTehroth writes:

You know what really gets me after seeing all the mmorpgs that are flopping and how the consumers aren't sticking with a game because its the same old item in a different mold they still try to sell us it. It is either the game companies do something right at first, but then make compromises and cut back all their features or they add nothing new to the game while not listening to the community until they finally get the hint they need to do something.

Clearly the themepark developers would realise AoC/Dcuo style of combat is much better and gets more subs than the tab target wow combat. I think sandbox is the way to go personally but since they are all f**k ups and mess their game up, don't listen to the community and are generally slow in content/fixes/toolsforcontent they have been lacklust and disappointing.

Anyways back to the themepark mmorpgs they all seem to copy WoW but they don't realize those 12 million players of WoW aren't looking for another version of WoW. These people want a new game, with tons of unique features and content with purpose and meaning in the world in terms of everything from pvp to being a reknown crafter. I think unless change comes and when a inteligent devteam/investor realizes players want sandbox the themepark genre is dead. That is unless GW2 or something of their "supposely" calibre comes along.


Mmorpg players that have been around for a while have been saying it for years now. We Don't want the same rehashed garbage. We want something unique with tons of features/content interactive combat/gameplay with meaningful impact on the world and goals to achieve in said world to make a name for yourself. Instead we get clones that offer the world,but we soon realize they cut most of the features and just reskinned the game.

/Rant from Ex: SWG,UO,WoW,AoC,WHO,APB,DCUO,DFO,Xsyon,MO,Runescape,and various other mmorpg player

Wed Dec 07 2011 4:59AM Report
Zkull writes: Blah, blah, blah. Nothing new in your rant that hasn't already been complained about before. BW never said this was going to be a game that revolutionizes the mmo genre and from all the reading and dev blogs, I never expected it to. What I did expect, was a typical BW game that was heavily story driven and taking place in the SW universe. I expected no more than that and I'm surprised you somehow expected a revolutionary game - despite the fact they said it wouldn't be. All I really wanted was and different mmo theme than the thousands of fantasy games out there and I wasn't disappointed. It's exactly that. No more, no less. I too have been playing these games for far too many years and quite frankly, am sick of the same old elves, dwarves, ogres and the like. Instead of being the 'asshole' you refer to yourself as, try channeling your 'rant' into coming up with some actual ideas as to how this industry can make the games better/more exciting. You are just like all these bloggers who complain about politics yet offer no solutions. Wed Dec 07 2011 1:51PM Report
Thestache writes:

@Ruinal was in the same beta, played all but 2 classes past level 15, and am not trolling, look at the number of posts I make. All the classes Empire side, had the same exact quests offered, as did all Republic classes. What I was referring to is in WoW, I can go to a completely different zone and get whatever quests I want. Offering me 2 zones that I can go to, and a world where I cannot go off the beaten path in any city is to me on rails and since I can only go on 2 different quest paths, it's not like I have much choice.

But that is justmy opinion, I know my guildmates have a ton of people playing's just not for me, doesn't mean I am trolling at all

Wed Dec 07 2011 2:42PM Report
Inktomi writes:

Nice one paragus. You told it as you saw it. As far as this one is concerned, I'm going to let this one pass for now. May change my mind in time if I get to try out the game a bit and in the mood for a theme parky type.

I just can't believe with all the work and money spent to make this game is going to suck. If it does then I would have to blame the top decision makers that must have though that going with what worked for other games would work for them. The no risk approach. 

Slowly, but surely, the video game industry is becoming the movie industry. Just a bunch of suits and puffed shirts that want to make money and not take any risks.

Thu Dec 08 2011 12:29PM Report
Ruinal writes:

@Thestache and I'm telling you can could do precisely that if you wanted. Travel to any of the other imperial starter worlds and quest there if you really wanted to, it wouldn't be efficient to do so as your storyline missions are tied to the world you start on, but you could do so. And after you got your starship it was much much easier to go wherever you liked. If you wanted to pvp on ilum at lvl 20, you could... you'd get splattered, but you could do it.

My mistake, you weren't trolling, you just didn't play enough beta to know what you were talking about.

Fri Dec 09 2011 5:14PM Report
Jacobin writes:

As an mmo the game is a disapointment.

I  view it as a single player rpg like Mass Effect or Dragon age with the addition of occasional grouping which is what I think Bioware was going for.

They made the same type of game they have before, but by making it into an mmo they can get a monthly fee and prevent all the piracy.

Hotbar combat is facereoll, but its pretty similar to most of their games.

Ultimately mmo vets will be disapointed by the shallow copy and paste mechanics, but I think Bioware delivered the type of game that has built their brand.


Sat Dec 31 2011 10:39PM Report writes:
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