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Order Vs Destruction Imbalance

Posted by Majinash Monday October 13 2008 at 9:48PM
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Now most of us know, the numbers advantage is a big deal in say... World RvR.  All the time you look at what keeps your side owns, and if you are order it can be pretty depressing.


However, right now most of the fighting going on is in even numbered scenarios.  So why are forums still filled with "order sucks" topics?


Tanks.  Its all about tanks.  In a small map, where there is constant fighting and every second counts, tanks drive the fight.  Look at 90% of the fights you are in, destrucion will have LOADS of tanks, and order will be lucky to have more than 2.


This is not because some tanks are better than others, it's because destruction tanks are far more appealing.  No one likes dwarfs.... ok, a few people do.  but look at dwarves in other games, they tend to be one of the least played races.  so one of order's tanks is underplayed despite it being a very solid class.  the Ironbreaker is strong, both sides agree its a powerful class but I rarely see more than 2, 3 if i'm very lucky but most of the time I get 1 in a 2 group warband.


The only saving grace for order is that their other tank is an elf.  people seem to love elves, they are the ying to the dwarven yang.  but the swordmaster is still an unpopular class, and when people do play it, they tend to use a 2hander, legit, but just not as effective as a 1hander with a shield.


Now this wouldn't be a problem if destruction was also short on tanks, but they aren't.  the chosen is incredibly popular, which just baffles me.  The class mechanic never interested me, they have nice armor but are otherwise not very interesting, yet people LOVE them.  the chosen is a solid tank, though you'll see a lot using 2handers.  you'll see more chosen in tor anroc than swordmasters and ironbreakers combined.


But the problem comes with Black orcs.  they are AMAZING, and everyone knows it.  they make up more than half of all greenskins (partially because squig herders are a bit broken, but thats another issue) but they don't mind!  They are overflowing with personality, incredibly powerful, and look great to boot.


How can we fix this problem? Black orcs are gods, Chosen are magically popular, and even the blackguard has a following.  When the KotBS hits live servers, order will see a LARGE boon, as it seems to have a lot more personality than either of the other 2 order tanks, but it still may not be enough to offset the zerg of black orcs.


So please order, make a tank alt, and USE GUARD. see if you like it, give it a chance.  throw away your shadow warrior or bright wizard and make a tank.  If you want to win, make a tank.  Sure, someday we may have too many tanks, but right now we simply lack them, and thats what is causing a large number of losses.

Deewe writes:

I have been playing hundreds of scenarios lately and I can say you are totally wrong.

Yes there are issue with balance but the tanks aren't the main one.

For the record, order has  2 overpowered classes :

Bright Wizard and Witch Hunter

FYI black orcs have a very low output damage.

Another thing is most of the time,on my server, order, have 2 to 5 more characters on their side than destruction in scenarios and that's make a huge difference.

For scenarios they shouldn't allow more than 1 character difference or increase the number of participants a lot so it won't matter.

Tue Oct 14 2008 10:15AM Report
Rollotamasi writes:


LOL.  I am going to assume you play destro. I know this because you said WH's are OP so you have obvisouly never been on the reciving end of a WE's dagger. 

Tue Oct 14 2008 11:39AM Report
Deewe writes:

WE also are OP ;)

My point was to balance the OP arguments.

Tue Oct 14 2008 12:26PM Report
Majinash writes:

I don't think your points disprove my statements.  both order and destruction have plenty of nukers and stealthers on their side, and both do loads of damage.  but they are not overpowered, they are simply doing their job.


Its harder to see a tank is overpowered because they don't kill you in under 5 seconds like a good WE/WH can do, but they have a MUCH bigger contribution in a battle than most WE/WH.  killing a healer, and killing a guarded healer are night and day.  50% mitigation is really all a healer needs to give them the time they need to get their HoTs going and keep themselves alive.


Black orcs have incredible damage for a tank class, as do chosen.  but order tanks have great damage as well for tanks.  WAR is a tank-game, they are very useful in both PvE and PVP and haven't been completely gimped in their DPS.  any black orc with low damage output simply isn't trying hard.  sure they aren't going to beat a nuker on the damage charts, but that doesn't mean they have low output, just not better than the highest DPS class in game.


and I the numbers in a scenario is a moot point, it happens to both sides.  lots of people use join all, some hit a map they don't like but don't leave the que, they are holding a spot someone else could be taking. but this happens a lot on both sides.


The biggest single factor in a fight is who is short on tanks.  a 1-2 tank difference isn't huge, and that won't effect a fight as much as good teamwork.  but a team with 5-6 tanks vs one with 1-2 is pretty much a hopeless cause for the underdog.


Go ahead, count tanks on both sides for a few matches, its the biggest single imbalance we have outside of the population problems in open RvR.

Tue Oct 14 2008 5:08PM Report writes:
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