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My Two Cents

This blog is for my personal entertainment and everything said here, while serious sometimes to me, should not be taken as a personal attack on an individual. Please feel free to flame me or support me or be indifferent, because that is why I'm blogging.

Author: KrystDaymen

Cookie Cutter MMO's

Posted by KrystDaymen Saturday December 20 2008 at 5:01AM
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Welcome to my first blog.  I am Krystar Daymen and I will be your host through today's rant.

So, cookie cutter mmo's.  Do I really need to explain this?  That's a rhetorical question I really hope that most of you have the intelligence to know what that means.

Where did we go wrong people?  When did it become the norm that they only way to make a game was to slap it together, make it a grind fest and add absoluteley no player content?

I think it's sad when I read posts from people on the DF forums that talk about this game being "revolutionary".  I mean I love the IDEA of what this game COULD be, but it is by no means revolutionary.   Don't get my wrong, it's not Aventurine's fault that it's being called that.  The blame lies with the companies that are creating these mmo's where the only thing to do is grind, grind, grind, buy gear (or mats to make gear) from the cash shops.  In these games that are so called "free to play" the whole of the virtual world is unbalanced in that it gives the person willing to spend the most money the advantage over a poor person who can't afford to spend that money.  I mean young players today don't even know what a good game is so they think that these cookie cutter games ARE what a good game is.  Left side third rib, tickle tickle, hahahahahaha.

Now you might say "Well they don't HAVE to play that game" but really...what other choice is out there right now?  Almost  every game you go to these days, either f2p or p2p, is exactly the same.  Let's take my gripes in order so you can see my point.  Warning: The rant begins now so the squeamish and the easily bored might want to stop reading.

1.  Number Leveling Systems

How insane and unfair is this?  Your ability to win is determined by a number by your toon's name.  If you are a level 20 toon and you come up against a level 50 toon there is not even the POSSIBILITY that you are going to win no matter what you do.  Now I'm not saying that it should be EASY or even close to easy for a level 20 to win this fight.  What I'm saying is is that there should be a CHANCE for it to happen however slim.  Example:  If you are a skilled marksman in real life with a hand gun, you can still be killed by someone that has never used one.  Even though it's a slim chance it is POSSIBLE.

2. Grinding

I don't think I need to say a lot about this.  I mean come on people (and here I'm talking to the people that know no better because they have never played a quality game) do you really think that killing 500 of the same mob for 7 hours is fun?  Is that REALLY your idea of player content?

3. Quests

Quests...ah quests...ah to have a TRUE quest and not just a disguise for killing yet another 500 mobs.  Quests are supposed to be about interaction...whether it be with other players for with npc's.  I would rather have a quest system that is designed around interaction with other REAL people.  Example: You need to assasinate a king, but to do it you need to assemble a team of other classes to help.  You need to wear disguises to make it past the city need to find a secret passage into the castle and once you find it to open it you need to solve some kind of puzzle that requires knowledge from other PLAYERS as well as your own knowledge.  I know this may be a poor example but you see where I'm going with it...there needs to be some imagination behind it.  Not just go to point A kill 20 mobs, return to point B and collect your crappy reward that's not going to help you anyway because your number is too low to win against someone who likes to kill lowbies anyway.

4. PvP

PvP...come one folks...can we really even call it PvP anymore?  Let's call it what it and point.  There is really no skill involved in PvP anymore.  Once again it's all about the number beside your name.  These days if you want to have any CHANCE of holding your own in PvP you have to spend all your time GRINDING in the HOPE that you will catch up in NUMBER to that person that's been killing you and making you go emo.  And the only way you'll be able to do that is if that person is not a botter, Cash Shop Whore, AND if they have to take a week off from the game.  So basically you Grind Grind Grind Grind for hours and hours on end in the HOPE that when you do get to PvP for FIVE MINUTES, you will be able to live 10 seconds longer lol.

5. PvE

True PvE has also gone the way of PvP...they may not be dead but they are both breathing their last breaths.  Good PvE has a lot to do with location and ambiance.  Don't make it a grind fest.  Make it so that, for example, IF you need to kill 70 mobs...make it part of a plot...make it so that you are doing it for a reason that is INTERESTING AND ENTERTAINING.  Not just because it's the only way to gain one percent xp!  And yes I realize that most of this should be directed to the game makers.


Hey if this is your idea of a fun game and you got the money to blow on virtual stuff...more power to you I guess.  To me, I never enjoyed destroys the entire challenge of the game.  And cash shop buying IS cheating.  If it's hard to get a mount in a game don't make it because SOMEONE DOESN'T HAVE THE REAL CASH TO BUY IT. Make it because you have to tame it, or break it yourself and there are 50 mobs around it trying to kill you while you do it...this would create a need for what is lacking in ALL COOKIE CUTTER MMO'S....player interaction and community.

Ok the rant is over, for now.  So let us ask ourselves who is to blame for why games are crap.  Is it the game makers? No not really.  The are in business to make money. 

The blame, sadly, lies with us the players.  We keep being pathetic sheep following the same lame ass sheperd.  And for those of you who don't know much about sheep, they are REALLY quite easy to fool. 

As long as we keep playing these crappy games because "there is nothing else to play", the game companies will keep cranking them out by the thousands, milking us for as much cash as they can for the few months they know they have until we get tired of it, then they will shut it down, and make another crappy game that looks great before release, but ultimately is just another flashy trick done with smoke and mirrors.

And that's my two cents for the day.  Take it or leave it.

P.S.  So far the only hope I see on the horizon is Darkfall and Mortal Online.  If either of these games turn out to be ANYTHING like they are promising...let all of us who know what a true game SHOULD be, embrace all the players warmly and show them that there is more to gaming than the same old same old.


caemsg writes:

*slap* *slap* come back once you have stopped playing games from the big publishers and once you have stopped listening to the hype machien i have seen it time and again there is a game from a big publisher loads of people want to buy the box for it so the publisher puts the minimium effort in

the hype machien gets ahold of a game and people start makeing up wilde assupmtions about how great it will be but it will just suck a fat one

what you need to look at is the idny MMO's often times you have a super good indy game ticking along with a few hundred -1k players and dont look at it because its not been heard of before no matter if its everything people want people dont look at them because they are too entranced with the next same same MMO to come out from the bug publishers

i agree its the players fault for paying people to produce these turd bucket games once gamers stop paying for shit the good games that are out there that dont have levels and dont have uber gear and are not point click adventuring will start growing and they are out there right now you just didnt look hard enough

Sat Dec 20 2008 7:16AM Report
achellis writes:

lol yeah your a carebear dude, go play WoW not trying to be mean but thats what a MMO is.


Sat Dec 20 2008 9:24AM Report
mrcalhou writes:

You talk about darkfall and mortal being the possibly the only hope left for this genre, but those are, as far as I know, pay to play games. You spend most of your rant talking about issues with the f2p korean games. You only mention other p2p games as an afterthought.

I agree though: MMOs are getting lame. And now with SoE using cash shops, it shows that the tween gamers have won and that it's time to start looking for a new type of game to play.

Sat Dec 20 2008 11:41AM Report
Quizzical writes:

If you don't like stereotypical WoW-clones, then play games that are further off the beaten path.  They aren't all WoW-clones, you know.

For example, Guild Wars:

1.  There are numerical levels.  But basically everyone is level 20, which is the cap.  Even people with lots of alts have most of their characters level 20.  And if you make a pvp character, it's level 20 from the moment you create it.

2.  I guess you can grind, but there's not much point when you're already at the level cap with perfect gear.

3.  You might not like some of the quests, but you can skip them if you don't.  (You don't need them to level, remember?)  The missions, on the other hand, have a huge amount of variety, with cutscenes to advance the storyline.  You can have other players along, or NPC allies instead, or some of each, as you prefer.

4.  If everyone is the same level with perfect gear, those don't determine who wins.

5.  You're not fighting to gain experience, as you're at the level cap quickly.

6.  There is kind of a cash shop, but nothing unbalancing in it.  Mostly they sell the game there, which you could buy on Amazon if you prefer.  The main thing that you need the cash shop in particular for is to buy extra character slots, in case you want more alts.

Or how about Puzzle Pirates:

1.  There are levels, but they're not numerical, and they don't make you stronger.  It's not quite true to say that they don't do anything, but you could play for a month without figuring out what they do.

2.  You could, I suppose, grind if you really want to.  But it would be stupid and pointless.

3.  There aren't any quests.

4.  If anything, PvP tends to be dominated by whichever side has more players in the area.

5.  Again, it's not grinding.

6.  If you don't like a cash shop, then play on the subscription server and there isn't one.

Or if you really want to go way off the beaten path, try A Tale in the Desert.  There's no combat.



Sat Dec 20 2008 11:56AM Report
haggus71 writes:

One feature you don't add that most sheep head for...high fantasy mmo's.  I would say forget Darkfall and Mortal Online.  They still use the same sword snd sorcery model dating to Gary Gygax's first board.  I would say games like The Agency, Global Agenda and Fallen Earth are more innovative.  In Fallen Earth, you don't have classes.  You live as most people in the real world should, with a diverse skill set. 

I think the situation in MMO's is a sign of the same ADHD, imaginationless crowd that has emerged in recent years on gaming.  These are the same mental gnats who only pick up a book in school, and are used to getting everything spoon-fed to them.  This is NOT a group that knows how to think outside the box.  If you plop them in an unfamiliar situation, their first response isn't, "Hmmm, this is interesting," and taking time to figure it out.  They say, "this is lame," use the standards of offline PC/console games, or compare it to WoW, EQ, et al, and give up.  Or, they spend a month of their lives grinding ten hours a day in the game, then wonder where the f-ing content is.  YOU GROUND THROUGH IT!!!   Monkeys have a greater attention span.

A lot of those points are actually addressed in one game: GW.  It has a mission  where you don the uniform of the enemy and sneak in his base.  Reaching level 20 is quick, and the game is very balanced, skill-wise.  There is no game where PvP relies on player skill like GW.  It does have issues, like Build Wars and being an instanced game.  However, it also offers an added bonus for buy the box and play for free.  Each box you can play separate from the other, and for five bucks you can get all the skills from the other games, so you aren't disadvantaged in builds.  Now, you can even get all three at Gamergate for $44.95.  That's three months of subs for a game that, unless you are one of the formentioned r-tard grinders, you can enjoy for months.  For the grinders, it offers certain titles for people to max out(and, judging from the low number of Gods Walking Among Mere Mortals, they are kept very busy).  With its community, one of the better ones in the industry, and devs that actually love their work, you could play longer.  Finally, since it isn't P2P, or micropay, you can put it down anytime you want, even play other MMO's, and come back when you want.

Now, if it could only be persistent...oh, wait, GW2.

Sorry for sounding like a fanboi, but I've tried all the flavors(WoW, AoC, LotRO, TR, CoX, EVE), and still come back to this game. 

Sat Dec 20 2008 12:22PM Report
KrystDaymen writes:

Yes I realize that there are SOME games out there that are different, although to replier number 2 WoW is one of the games I'm ranting about. 

I'm not preaching to those of you that enjoy what I consider to be crap games, as I stated numerous times in my posts on this blog and on the forums if that is your cup of tea...go for it.

I'm talking to people that have never played a different type of game than the cookie cutters and are wondering if there is another way. 

Those of you that are haters of what DF and MO have the potential to be, potential I said...I'm not trying to sound like a fanboi here even tho I am one, will never understand what those of us who long for a return to what WE consider to be true gaming are wanting.

You WoW lovers and all of you that enjoy number leveling systems and uber gear and cash shop spending and THINK you know what real pvp is are entitled to your opinion.  It's easy for you to hate those of us that would like to see something different, or rather something like the first mmo UO was, because you HAVE your games...we don' let us try to bring some of the NEW players that may want to try something other than what is "the norm" today to DF or MO.  Everyone is entitled to play what they want to because it's ultimately an INDIVIDUALS time and money that have to be spent.

I'm just trying to show the young players that think that there is nothing different and are hating those games that I call cookie cutters, that there can be if we choose to make it so.

I guess I get to heated in these forums because I read so much hatorade on the forums directed toward DF and MO.  I know I have offended some of you that like the mainstream games and I apologize.  You are entitled to play what you enjoy and I wish you well. 

All I ask for is the same courtesy for us, i.e. the old school players of UO and the hopers that DF and MO will be what we are promised, as we try to reach out and talk younger players that want something different to come to our worlds (when they come out) and give them a chance.

Sat Dec 20 2008 12:28PM Report
sanders01 writes:

 I love WoW. It's one of the simplest games I've ever played, yet it keeps me on. It requires no skill which, is a plus imo. No skill because I am not skilled at many things, such as twitch gameplay with FPS'. Im a fan of cookie cutter mmos, because I've steped out of the boundary too many times with games "promising" differnt gameplay, but they've always failed. When you show me a good mmo that isnt cookie cutter then I'll pay for it.

Sat Dec 20 2008 1:19PM Report
Ahnilator writes:

If you don't like any MMORPGs on the market, stop playing. You could also stop playing game in general and do something else like... Read a book or... Go out with someone, you know?

Games are meant to be fun. If you don't like that kind of "fun", just stop and don't come back here again to complain about stuff you like/dislike. It won't lead you anywhere good.

Sat Dec 20 2008 3:18PM Report
kremath writes:

Guild Wars has no jump therefore it fails.

Sat Dec 20 2008 7:44PM Report
Deatonis writes:

People responding to this are idiots honestly, i got a real blog question when did mmo-ers become self absorbed morons. Let me explain this for you pompous self lovers out there. F2P every game shoul employ it doesnt matter F2P and P2P games have been known to have basically the same amount of content, save for maybe wow and eve's monthly releases. The point hes saying is every things become generic, high fantasy ahs nothing to do with this! Its the features hes after not just the detials. Honestly, what cardboard boxes did you people crawl out of and he has every right to dislike them WHAT ARE YOU DEFENDING. Other then the fact youre idiots everything has flaws and should try to develop those, guess what i dont see any of these games trying to you braindead medicated tree hugging idiots.

Sun Dec 21 2008 12:44AM Report
KrystDaymen writes:

To Ahnilator,

I have stopped playing mmo's.  There are currently none worth my time.

I am very well read and can converse on a number of topics ranging from ancient history to quantum physics.

As for going out with wife might not like that too much, lol.

Yes games are meant to be fun...sadly there are no mmo's atm that ARE fun TO ME.  I am simply trying to appeal to like minded people and gather them for the DFO and MO releases.  I am fully aware that one or both of them may tank...but I can dream can't I?

As far as complaining about what I dislike or promoting what I like, I thought that this was MY blog.  Hmm must have read that wrong when it said "create YOUR own blog".

To Deatonis,

TBH, from reading your post I am not sure if your with me or against me lol.  And btw...calling people that respond to this idiots was interesting because...didn't YOU respond to this? lol.

Sun Dec 21 2008 1:18AM Report
erevus writes:

First of all excuse my english as it is not my native language.

I would like to make a point to all of you who replied defending games like WoW ,probably L2 and the rest of the shit that hooked you so much in the point to defend something that is really braindamaging you without ever questioning your ability to make games even better. Lets make each one of us a question to ourselves . Do we really enjoy these games or are we just playing them because everyone else does ?. Are we victims of a good AD and propaganda or are we just hypnotised sheeps click-kill-loot-sell-buy gamers. Yes Kryst made a point to this blog and i'm with him 100%. I'm not going to tolerate any more grinding so i can show off my epic armor and sword to the whore shoppers in the city. I'm not going to tolerate boting in my game so i can have enough money to easily buy myself to that lvl of stupidness. I want to play with my mind and my senses and be good as more as i can and not to play just with the lvling guide i just bought or the spec's they just told me. If you like to follow sheeps go there and do it anyway you'll come to a game which will be made the way we want it after many of us will promote it because you are herd followers.

Yes DF gives a vision to all of us. Will it fail is only a matter of time to see. But after all isn't that game created because of our disapointment for all those grind-fest gold selling games ?.

Maybe you all have to understand that YOU have the power to make games better.

Sun Dec 21 2008 3:29AM Report
beaverz writes:

So basically you dont like mmorpgs that have a rpg part in them, hmm that makes sense you should go play fps.

Sun Dec 21 2008 10:43AM Report
Running writes:

Well, applarently someone hasn't played Warhammer.


1. Yes, that would be nice (I guess?) but making the code for that would be rediculous, the Devs would have to be 24/7 balancing everything out.

2.  There are always open partys running around or scenarios to join...I level quite fast and enjoy it rather well.

3.  Quests in War (while some may be generic), there are a LOT of lore related quests, the public quests are even more in depth.

4. PvP is great, in scenarios or in Orvr you get bolstered to almost the top of the level of your current tier...which is usually sufficient enough to make a difference.

5. Warhammer does this.  PvE is lame though...all gear dependent, go play a single player RPG is you want to kill computers  :P

6. F2P MMOs are retarded...You pay one way or another.  Subscription or cash shops.  cash shops just make it so the richest among us can be better at the game.

Sun Dec 21 2008 10:57AM Report
fallup11 writes:

LOL dude man quit mmorpgs and play FPS becuz all ur wanting is a FPS LOL in a mmorpg is like life longer u play the better u get u deserve to be better becuz u played longer. That "number" i sign of hardwork. If u want a game that all r equal and its all about skills again FPS BUT! one of the most succesful FPS is CoD4 and what differnet about that then other fps? it had a ranking system and a good one at that. U might not like it but its neccesary.

Sun Dec 21 2008 3:49PM Report
Taram writes:


More people need to play games like EVE, pre-CU SWG, UO, Shadowbane, etc.  None of these games were particularly level based... well Shadowbane was but it was more warfare oriented than PVP oriented so it was unlikely you'd be fighting alone.  Same goes for DAOC really... and they even gave the option of PVP'ing only with people within a few levels if you wished.

Sun Dec 21 2008 5:22PM Report
gamerman98 writes:

*yawn* more of the same....I cant wait for a day a MMORPG member does something not so predictable...

Sun Dec 21 2008 8:20PM Report
erevus writes:

To Running

Well YOU obviously has not played anything else.

European server : Eltharion , Destruction Class : Sorcerer , Char Name : Erewus , Lvl : 37 , RR : 37

You are most welcomed anytime ingame to discuss everything about how a game could be even better.

To beaverz

I guess you haven't played a single RPG game or a MMORPG with the RPG part in them.

Man if you think that RPG is grinding and getting to that lvl of which you can easily kill the bot-lvled-thick wallet-noob then you are by far mistaken. When it was the last time you have PKd some1 ingame because of you skills and not because of your chars lvl ?

Yes i do like PVP, RVR, PVE , i do like balanced economy, crafting, and all this stuff BUT most of all i like  a game where i can be different from the others. I want to chose my way of playing a game and not be dictated by the narrow choices i have.

Just think of a game where everything is possible including having your brain on the move again.


Mon Dec 22 2008 12:56AM Report
clamsd101 writes:

Mostly what EVE online does pretty much destroys your rant. But Cookie Cutter Mmo's are more appealling to casual players then hard-core. They don't have to do all of this stuff. A few clicks and a credit card allow them to play with no grind.

Tue Dec 23 2008 12:42AM Report writes:
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