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The Perfect MMORPG

Pvp is my forte. My achievements: DaoC: Rank 11 Runemaster and Berserker WoW: Gladiator rogue, Warlord Warrior, Gladiator DK Warhammer: Rank 73 Sorcerer and Rank 69 Witch elf

Author: Darrgen

Why the world needs a DaoC 2

Posted by Darrgen Sunday October 10 2010 at 9:33PM
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Dark age of Camelot was a game I was very fond of and loved for more reasons than just the incredible PvP(RvR) system.  The lore of the Arthurian legends was what truely drew me to this game. The Landscapes are a mix of real places and places from the legend. Not only that but there was no definitive bad guy with the factions.  This in my opinion is the perfect basis for a true next generation MMO.  Why DaoC2 has not even begun to be made is beyond me.

Why DaoC2 Would work

So the question is would a DaoC2 work?  To that I say yes if the right people were behind it. Everywhere you go you hear about the legendary RvR DaoC had. Anytime the topic of pvp is brought up DaoC immediately comes to the table as the frontrunner.  So with that alone I would imagine many many PvP'rs from all games atleast giving it a shot.  The MMO market seriously lacks a true PvP game right now. 

What should be Kept

  Daoc had many things that were great and some that weren't. So first I'll cover what should be kept and to those who never had a chance to play it a brief explaination.

Landscapes: If one thing was truely incredible with daoc it was the world. Exploring the lands in Daoc was unique to your faction. the other factions could not explore your lands so it really felt like your own. Even dungeons were seperate for each faction. To give an example in a game most are familiar with I will refer to WoW. In WoW lichking is the final boss and ICC is the dungeon for both Horde and alliance. In DaoC there were 3 sides hibernia, albion, midgard. Say for instance you played hibernia, your end game dungeon might be Black temple, where midgards would be ICC, and albion's would be Naxx. The loot would also be completely different but overall value of the items would be similar.  This meant each realm had unique loot which also gave an even greater feel for the game instead of everyone looking the same.

Crafted armor: Crafted armor was very essential in DaoC. You would never go without atleast 3-4 pieces of crafted armor. You had the option of going with or without crafted armor but generally the best way to go was to have a mix of crafted and dungeon items.  Also crafted items had many different looks but with the same value so you did not look the same as another of the same class in your realm.

RvR mechanics: Now this is a big one. Some agree and some don't but if you take away the basic mechanic of what daoc had you're taking away what made the game great. Crowd control classes were something daoc had and no other game has had to this point. In a massive open field game you need to be able to control massive amounts of people at a time so it doesn't feel completely hopeless when you run into outnumbering forces. Also speed classes have pretty much dissappeared from games and i think these classes were very essential to DaoC's success. To those of you who dont understand, DaoC had classes that could mesmerize up to 16 people in one cast, what this did was make people fall asleep for around 30 seconds which broke if ANYTHING were to touch them. this was great in that it could be used to escape large numbers or to get the upper hand vs an enemy group. You needed someone would was quick to react and beat out the enemy crowd control class. Also speed was something that allowed your whole group to go 2,3,4 and even 5 times normal speed, This speed broke when you entered combat but would return if you escaped combat for 10 seconds. This allowed for groups to escape other larger armies that not always had enough speed classes to go 5x normal speed.

What should be changed

Now for what should be changed

UI/Controls: The User interface and controls of the game are very outdated. Going back to the game feels very clunky and unfriendly. DaoC's controls and User interface needs to function more like WoW/Warhammer controls. It would make the overall feel of the game much better especially for the WoW community trying the game.

New User friendly: In DaoC to get into the game required a huge learning curve. This learning curve was Okay for the time of release of daoc but it would not fly now days. With that said it needs to be as easy as it is to start a WoW character.

Solo/Group play: So many games now days focus only on solo play. Daoc had little of it. It was very difficult to level on your own. This was both good and bad. Grouping built community but at the same time if you were unable to find a group it was often not worth the time to play. So there should be both options. You should be able to switch between both as well. Whether it be quest your way up solo or join a group and experience group exp bonus for dungeon crawling or killing waves of enemies.

Dynamic events: Guild Wars 2 will introduce dynamic events where events on the world will actually change cities and quests. This I feel would fit perfectly into a DaoC 2 game and should be standard for sandbox mmo's of the future.

Closing thoughts

 With nearly a decade since DaoC's original release, we have since seen failure after failure of MMO's come and go. Most due to WoW and developers want of stealing a piece of what WoW has. This often ends being a  WoW clone. This however never works simply because WoW is too robust and for many WoW was thier first mmo and anything that feels like it will not satisfy as much as it does.  DaoC was before WoW and now that the MMO market has shot through the roof I see no reason a game Modernized but still the same mechanics of old would not convert people. Simple fact is nobody wants another WoW, we want something different that is fun and I personally have never played a more fun to play game than DaoC.  However DaoC's age shows now and things need to be drastically changed which permits the production of a sequal or even a prequal.  This is why i think the world needs a DaoC 2.

tegweien writes: /nod I agree Mon Oct 11 2010 2:32PM Report
nirvanet writes:

And what's happen if i don't like Daoc ¿?

Can we hate Daoc ¿?

I'm not saying that as a "never tested Daoc" guy because when they realeased it i immediatly bought a game box from irl shop then sub.

And what ¿? I hate this game, i loved EQ1 and many other mmo like Ultima.

This is not the best mmorpg as what half of the people said, this is only the VERY first popular game that make players feel good at a time where mmo looked like rock & paper build (old players know what i mean uh? :P)

I'm not saying this game suxx as hell, i'm saying we can hate this game and we no need to talk about it in good just because most of the people (not all ^^) "i loooove this game" like a sheep **beheheheh**

What's happen when someone tell you "omg Jackson suxx!"

Same reaction as Daoc.

(sorry, poor english :P)

Tue Oct 12 2010 7:49AM Report
Darrgen writes:

I'm not sure what your point is at all.  It sounds to me like you're saying i shouldn't have wrote this article because not everyone likes DaoC? In any case these are my opinions, everyone will not feel the same as I do.

Wed Oct 13 2010 5:49AM Report
nirvanet writes:

No no, i'm not coming here for free sarcasm ^^

Most of the people explain the same thing as you. I got so many strong reactions each time i tried to say some players don't like Daoc.

I wanted to show (maybe ?) to people like me they are not alone ;o)

Wed Oct 13 2010 10:27AM Report
Darrgen writes: You're entitled to not like it. Though very few that experienced DaoC's endgame would agree with you. Thu Oct 14 2010 9:25AM Report
t0nyd writes: I can understand why you would think that a DAoC 2 would be interesting. IMO, the world does not need another Mytic created MMO. I would also go so far as to say that most people do not want another very time intensive MMO where gear and crowd control > intelligent and skilled play. Thu Oct 14 2010 5:18PM Report
Darrgen writes:

I dunno what daoc you played but, SI daoc you hit 80 and got spellcrafted and you were just as good as anyone else outside of dungeon armor procs. ToA at the start was very gear intensive but they nerfed it so much that you can get everything you need in one night at 50. If you think that's a gear grind then I dunno what to tell you. Not to mention Nothing was bop or even boe outside of artifacts which aren't even that needed anymore. 

And to the crowd control bit, crowd control happened to be a part of the skill in daoc. WIthout the cc it'd be whoever could zerg down who first and that's just boring. When you're outnumbered 4 to 1 in daoc and that 4 to one odds can't beat the 1 to cc then the outnumbered side deserves to have a slight advantage, and if that 4 can't spread out and get support cleared to do things like demezz or even cc back then again they deserve to possibly even lose. Especially considering purging would make you immune to 1 of the 3 forms of cc for a whole minute.  I guess that'd go with your intelligent part.  The reason why smaller numbers often won in daoc was because of better teamplay which would be attributed to skill and intelligence as well.  Any organized zerg in daoc often had thier way which is how it should be but atleast in Daoc the smaller numbers had things like sos to atleast try to run.

Thu Oct 14 2010 8:03PM Report
t0nyd writes:

Gear is everything in DAoC even to this day. Try going to Thid without a template. IMO, lower level PvP is what will either win you new subs or scare away noobs, As I said, gear is still the most important factor in even a place like Thid, a stealther with a 2-hander can 1 shot a mage class.

 Also, I just do not see how a 30 second mez leads to intelligent and skilled play. When in Thid, your team of 8 can be attacked by a team of 4 and dropped 1 at a time, while everyone stands there and watches, simply do to gear and a single well timed aoe mez.

 Imo, if a single button press has the chance to assure victory, its not much of a game and more of a spectator sport.  I am not even going to get into how used and abused stealth is in this game at lower levels. When you enter Thid and there are 30 players and only 10 of 30 are visible, well, thats enough said...

Fri Oct 15 2010 12:31AM Report
Darrgen writes:

Oh so you aren't even talking about endgame. How hard is it to to buy a weaponcrafted weapon and armorcrafted gear in daoc? what does that take  like 30 mins to an hour of finding? I dont see how that's a gear grind and as far as mezzing is concerned. In thidranki it takes INSANELY long time to cast at that level so if your whole group gets mezzed then you're probably just bad. Daoc is the least time consuming game to be ready to pvp in I've played, and im a multi gladiator in wow, 2x rank 11s in daoc, and rank 74 sorc in warhammer so ive played my fair share of games at a very high level.


Bottom line all your experience of daoc is obviously thid from the way you talk. that's not even half the levels in daoc and you speak as if that's the end game.  Chances are you play an unspellcrafted character cause you're too lazy to find crafters and wonder why fully spellcrafted players are killing you. Sorry to inform you bro, but no game you will play is gonna be fair if you dont atleast put 30 mins into your character and not random crap that dropped along the way.

Fri Oct 15 2010 11:02AM Report
jcobs writes:

I miss hearing trolls taking damage "WASSSZZZZUUUUUPPPPP!!!!" haha..


Sometimes i think the best part of DAoC was the fact that you were able to pvp so early on, and it was actually the driving force behind most of the game, if not the whole game. That created a stron social environment, fearing certain players, being able to spot them by the dyes of their armor, or 8-man grups by their capes and guild emblems.


If they created another DAoC i would be willing to drop pretty pennies for whatever specs.

Any mmo i play nowadays just doesnt live up.. wow is like the chinese version of daoc, if the games were handheld devices >_>

Thu Feb 03 2011 4:52AM Report
Metalian writes:

+1 to OP

Sun Feb 06 2011 5:52AM Report
Vargur writes:

I'd love DAoC II if they developed it right. I have to arrest you on a few details. Mezzes lasted a lot longer than 30 secs. I have standing with my thumbs where the sun don't shine for more than a minute on occasion when Purge was down. I disagree that CC was a skill. Far too often I fought jackasses who lagcasted and used other expliots to get an advantage. The vision for DAoC was huge battles, not the 8vs8 it was reduced to.

In my opinion, for DAoC II to be successful, it needs to be stripped down. All the abilities and artifact procs that came with ToA would have to be stripped, and a lot of classes redesigned. Something has to be done about buffs, and I think the best way is to redesign the effect of buffs. To have to pay for three accounts to be competitive should not be necessary, and I think Mythic recognized that, a bit too late though. The influx of NPC buffs and special servers were the cheap way to go. If they are given a second chance, they should go back to the drawingboard and look hard at how they implement buffs. The developers need to scrutinize the game to figure out how to make the game fun for everyone. My belief is that the game needs to be stripped down. Lots of abilities needs to be redesigned, and artifacts removed from the game.

Mythic did three things wrong: CCs, buffs, and ToA. SI was a mythological disaster only beaten by LotM, but did not change the game. ToA did. The difference for stealthers between having SoM and some other items up or not, often ruined potentially fun fights by making them slaughter.

As far as the landscape is concered, I would love to see northern England/Albion as one large RvR sone. Make it twice the size of one of the Old Frontiers. Let the Mids and Hibs sail there to fight, and just let people raid the relics from one keep in England to another. Less space, but let us face it. Albion and Midgard home frontier was usually empty outside relic raids, and tons of areas in NF was never disputed. A well-designed RvR area should have room for everyone to find their fights.

Sun Feb 06 2011 1:03PM Report
Finey writes:

DAoC was great untill ToA was released, the original was a blast in pvp / rvr and SI added the aspect of some decent PvE aswell.  If they are to make a DAoC2 they better go back to the roots. Cause when they added ToA and everthing since that, they made the game to much like WoW.

We dont need a second WoW, cause nobody beats Blizz when it comes to that. But what DAoC had in PvP and RvR was unique and no other game has come even slithly close to that.

I surely hope we get to see a DAoC 2 at some point in the future, but it shouldent be rushed and it needs to be very well thought trough.


Mythic would be smart if they listned to some of their old players.

Sun May 01 2011 7:05PM Report
edged27 writes: The OP sounds very very nostalgic. There were alot of good things that I remember fondly about original DAOC, but killing 4 to 10x your number was definitely not one of them. My guess is that the OP was fortunate enough to play with enough competent friends and he was on the right side of 8v40 sluaghterfests most of the time. So for every 8 people out there nostalgically recalling epicly slaying 40 people (most of them standing still!), there are 40 people playing other games that don't require you to know an ace-mezzer to succeed. That kind of disproportion is precisely why DAOCs aren't being made these days (at least not with number-negating abilities like AOE CC). I'm on board with craftable gear, speed buffs over mounts, sandbox RvR, meangingful PvP, and even a casting system that combines DaoCs system with the modern era. But allowing the OP to enjoy his nostalgic fantasy of killing 10x his numbers while they all stand around? Been there, done that (on both sides of the coin), and it was the epitome of lame. Find a new solution to population imbalance and maybe you can sell a daoc clone to those of us who have fond memories of such a good game. Just don't try and sell us a ToA clone several years later and force us to give you our collective middle fingers. Wed Apr 25 2012 4:41PM Report writes:
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