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Reflections on MMO's

This is just a minor reflection on MMO's in general

Author: Ciano

Dark Fail!

Posted by Ciano Thursday January 15 2009 at 12:57PM
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Darkfall...., it is a game that has been whispered in the shadowy underbelly of the MMO commnity for over 6 years now. Many have speculated that it is a myth and like many myths is simply and old wives tale to scale poor carebears in to going to bed at night. Others speculate that Dark Fall is real and will one day rise up and crush the MMO community under it's evil tread.

Dramatics aside I don't think any MMO to date has ever been quite as controversial as the upcoming game Darkfall. Recently the developer Tasos announced that Jan 22nd will open a trial for several thousand players and they extended the release to the 25th of Febuary. He stated that several systems required testing based on the feedback of beta testors. They also announced that there would be a pre order beta disc. Now, if I remember my history then Darkfall wasn't originally going to be anything other than digital download. My instincts tell me that this delay is because Tasos picked up a last minute publisher and worked out a deal for distribution.  Now I think there is nothing wrong with delaying a game to make sure that it is as polished as it can get. However,  the circumstances of this extension are questionable. They are already beginning to speculate that they will have far more subcribers than they anticipated and want to make room for more people. This is a mistake because it's a sandbox MMO. The death nail for a sandbox MMO is an empty world. If Tasos makes the same mistake as so many other MMO's recently, he will release too many servers and the worlds will be empty. It is much better to NOT have enough capacity and add more as the servers fill, than to spread out the player base too much in the initial release.


Now, Darkfall is the most controversial MMO of our time. The nay sayers believe that it will never release and that we are following vaporware. The elitists claim that it's graphics and systems are sub par and will never attract the numbers to maintain it's success. The carebears decry the full loot system and vow never to even try the game.

Well to that I say on to you "NUTS". If Darkfall releases it will probably be the most polished MMO release in the last 10 years. I think if the systems are all done correctly then it's PVP will be the most polished and well rounded in any MMO is the last few years. It's crafting will be the most expansive and least tedious of any MMO.

If the game doesn't release then they will have all been right. I do think that a game that has been delayed over and over can be nothing but win IF and ONLY IF, it released before the MMO community gets sucked in to another game.

Right now we are in a lull for MMO's. AOC, WAR, even WOW to a certain extent is starting to lose the interests of longtime MMO gamers. IF Darkfall releases before another new game, it stands a good chance of stealing players and retaining them for a while. If another game releases before Darkfall, I think that Darkfall will fail. Players only have so much time and money and most of us won't split it between two MMO's.


Quizzical writes:

So basically, your argument is that if Darkfall is the next game to be released, it will do amazingly well, but if some other game releases before it, it will fail spectacularly?  Doesn't the quality of the game play a role?  And even if you were right, haven't hundreds of games released in the last few years, so that it would be too late now, anyway? 

Thu Jan 15 2009 1:21PM Report
Kordesh writes:

 All I needed to see was the word "carebear" and I knew you were one of the cult. Really, you guys are so stuck in the early 90s you're the only ones that actually still use that outmoded term...

Thu Jan 15 2009 2:09PM Report
Pepsipwnzgod writes:

You sir, are stupid.

Thu Jan 15 2009 2:19PM Report
xxxfistxxx writes:

lol @Kordesh there will always be carebears...

Thu Jan 15 2009 2:33PM Report
Xuljester writes:

Nice post. I'd like to contend, though, that Darkfall may not be quite so polished if they've scrapped and re-scrapped their game in order to get it to where they wanted.

But agreed; a sandbox MMO will be severely crippled if the subscribers don't pick up fast enough. On the other hand, Darkfall has quite a following, what-with 6 years of word-of-mouth advertising and the publicity--though not entirely favorable--it's recieved.

Indeed; if it maintains it's February release date, then it will be one of the first MMO's to come out this year--a first among quite a line up, as far as MMO's are concerned. The only game that might beat it to the punch is The Chronicles of Spellborn, but with Acclaim taking charge of the North American release, I don't see that happening.

You know what they say though; pride comes before the fall, and that is exactly what it's starting to look like here. If Mythic gets too headstrong before the actual numbers start pouring in, they may end up over-prepared and spoil the meal. Of course, if Darkfall DOES fall through, there's always Mortal Online which we can hope the MMO community picks up on.

After all, it isn't the game that we want to see succeed here--it's the type of game. Or at least it is for me. Let's hope one of them succeeds, at the very least.

Thu Jan 15 2009 3:02PM Report
Zayne3145 writes:

You've seen the Beta leaks, right? You know the game is broken?

Thu Jan 15 2009 3:07PM Report
Xuljester writes:

Oh, right--Kordesh, the term's full meaning is lost on the newer gamers, and it is still very much relevent today.

"Carebears" are gamers who need the game to hold their hand, protect them from big scary worlds, provide them a hamster wheel to run on, and feed them an endless supply of overpowered loot. "Carebear" is what MMO's have become; it's meaning has extended itself from the innocently spiteful coining way back when MMO's were far and few. And early 90's? The term was coined in the late 90's, most notably among the Ultima Online community just as the world split.

Quizzical - Quality does play a role, but if no one experiences that quality, then it is entirely wasted, isn't it? There are undoubtedly many MMO gamers that are anticipating some new MMO's release this year, and with the number of MMO's slated to go gold the MMO community will undoubtedly be split--more likely than not, entirely in favor of one or the other--so calling shotgun to the year's MMO lineup is very favorable, but they'll likely need more oomph to get their subscriber ball rolling.

Thu Jan 15 2009 3:13PM Report
Koddo writes:

@kordesh I'm with ya brother, once i saw the word carebear, I instantly knew he was just an elitist griefer.

I don't really care one way or the other about darkfall, I just wish everyone would stfu about it. I don't care if it's the new "wow" or fails worse than dark 'n light, either way it's still a game and really not worth all the flame wars about it.

I do think, however, that they have high expectations that will most likely go undelivered.

Thu Jan 15 2009 3:44PM Report
Ciano writes:


@Kordesh- The term is still used today and I have played 80% of the MMO's in the last 10 years. The term still applies to anyone who absolutely can not stand the actions of others impacting thier game. If that offends you then too bad.

@Koddo, I am not an eliteist griefer. I happen to prefer a pvp centric enviroment. If you consider being one of the guys who doesnt prefer to have Big daddy GM line up my battles for me and say ready, set, go, then so be it. I prefer the option to be able to let have to outwit my enemies, not stand on opposite ends of a battle ground and know exactly what I am fighting.


@quizzical- The quality of the game does have a big role. However, in a pvp centered game the numbers matter more initially. The number of players available for the games main feature will determine the success or failure of the game. The main feature is pvp and that depends entirely on players to be successful. Nobody is going to join a game is it has no population to compete against. Population is less relevent in games that are centered around PVE content.

Thu Jan 15 2009 5:09PM Report
toddze writes:

Carebears, just because someone has a different style of gaming does not make them a carebear. Well if thats the case; if someone doesnt like endless hours of grinding raid bosses to get their gear that makes them a carebear. No its just gaming style of the gamer.

Carebear is just a term used to make the individual feel supiorior over others, which most generally makes up for some inferiority complex of the individual using the term carebear.

Thu Jan 15 2009 6:52PM Report
Ciano writes:

Actually Carebear is used to describe a certain play style. Carebears are essentually people who can not stand any form of pvp and prefer all game interaction be PVE. Your definition of a carebear makes no sense at all. Carebears are people who do not do pvp period. They don't like it. They don't like to be bothered by it, and they hate the idea of somone else being able to kill them or impact their choice of what they do.

I don't use it to feel superior. I use it to describe. I'm pretty sure I could care less about feeling superior than those people and I'm pretty sure they could care less about me.

Thu Jan 15 2009 8:05PM Report
Vanpry writes:

Lawl, carebear is and has always been used as a derogatory term to describe people that absolutely do not like pvp.  So either you are trying to be cute or you don't have a clue.  Also if you don't think using derogatory terms isn't a attempt to make yourself feel superior maybe you don't have a clue.

Thu Jan 15 2009 9:16PM Report
ronpack writes:

Darkfall is delayed ONCE AGAIN until Feb 25. Not only that, the devs admitted that they have not stress tested the server and it won't be able to handle too many people. This has got "fail" written all over it. Hell, you can't even go to their website right now. These guys had the right concept but they can't seem to pull it together. Reminds me of Hellgate London....

Thu Jan 15 2009 9:46PM Report
ElRenmazuo writes:

carebears was a ok cartoon.  Im more of a gummibears guy.

Thu Jan 15 2009 9:46PM Report
Ciano writes:

Look man, the only one here choosing to get offended here is you. There are people who refer to themselves are total carebears. It is universally accepted as a term for a non-pvper or somone who does PvE only.

If you want to go all politically Correct on me then why don't I say "Non-Pvper, PvEr, Anti-Pvper, Person who doesn't like pvp, Person who can't or does not thrive on conflict"

Do you have any other politically accept terms for Carebear Commissar Vanpry?


Get a grip dude. I don't need to feel superior to you or Toddze. Your a nobody on a forum. I'm pretty sure I am nobody to you as well. If you don't like my terminology go take a few anger management classes and post again when you feel better.

Besides, somone who uses the word "Lawl" shouldn't even give somone grief over the term Carebear. "Lawl" is derived from "Leet Speak" which is a way of speaking that is designed to make the person being spoken to feel like a chump and the speaker feel superior. Consider that before you go spouting your nonsense about superiority complexes.


Thu Jan 15 2009 9:58PM Report
Vanpry writes:

Offended?  Me?  Now you're really kiding yourself.  Just trying to educate you.  Obviously a lost cause but you can't blame me for trying.

The only people that use the terms carebear to describe pve-ers or griefers to describe pvpers are idiots that are trolling for a fight.  So again you are either uneducated or trying to be cute.

Thu Jan 15 2009 11:21PM Report
whincupd writes:

Nicely put Ciano, inteligence pravails everytime.

Thu Jan 15 2009 11:21PM Report
zelldevil writes:


honestly I must say this... you are a dumbass!  you say "I just wish everyone would stfu about it"  ... then dont read the fuckign article dumbass.  this is where mmorpgs are discussed, so if you don't want to here about this particular mmo, you dont have to, cuz u can just look at other blogs or forums.  just quit your bitching.

okay, now for the article.  this delay has greatly disenhearted me, i used to consider myself a fanboi of darkfall.  I almost believed it to be like the second coming of jesus, but after yet another delay reality hit me.  I don't think that this game is "vaporware" but I also dont think its gonna snatch up 80% of the community.  I imagine itll end up like eve, maybe only 50k people will end up playing after 3 months release if and when that happens, but itll be a niche.  I don't think its gonna take over wow or anything like that anymore.

Fri Jan 16 2009 4:04AM Report
zelldevil writes:

sorry for double post, but seriously?  you guys are fighting over terminology in a blog?  damn vanpry grow up

Fri Jan 16 2009 4:06AM Report
EVEjnb writes:

Nice writeup.

However, I think some of your assumptions, such as:

"It's crafting will be the most expansive and least tedious of any MMO" are perhaps premature.  Gianna's preview on thenoobcomic site already suggests that crafting even basic items is much more tedious than any other MMORPG:

"As an alternative to farming arrows from monsters who use them or buying them at the store, I've decided to try making my own. You need a wood axe and a pickaxe to collect wood from trees and ore from ore-yielding rocks. Then you must use a saw at a workbench to obtain wood planks and smelt the ore (using tongs at a smelter) to obtain ingots. THEN you must take your ingots, ore and a woodworking knife to a crafting bench where you obtain arrows if you also spend some gold (why?!? Why do you want my gold? I just ran around town like an idiot for the last ten minutes with my backpack full of crap to make these arrows!). Not all crafting requires so many steps, though. Cooking for example is less involved - at least the simple fish recipes I've tried."

Fri Jan 16 2009 5:08AM Report
gringemore writes:

Gotta agree with the write of this post.Reguardless , I and any true game will be there for the lauch of Darkfall when it does happen.



Funny to me Carebear was simply a gamer that didnt pvp or aleast play open pvp servers.Over analyze much?

Fri Jan 16 2009 8:03AM Report
Ryukan writes:

"If you consider being one of the guys who doesnt prefer to have Big daddy GM line up my battles for me and say ready, set, go, then so be it. I prefer the option to be able to let have to outwit my enemies, not stand on opposite ends of a battle ground and know exactly what I am fighting."

The above comment made me chuckle a bit, as if to say that pvp gameplay is so much more dynamic and intelligent than pve gameplay. Mmmmm hmmmm...if I am a carebear because I prefer storyline and questing over running around hacking and nuking and mezzing other players than order me up some hugs 'cuz a little pvp is ok here and there but for the most part I find it to be fairly any  MMO game I have  ever played. If there is one thing that inspires more nerfage than anything else in a game world it is p...v...p

And what is up with Darkfall's website, is it possible they could maybe center it on the page? hehe. If I was Darkfall's website I would feel a bit...clausterphobic.

Darkfall does look sorta interesting though, I am a a fan of skill based character development (such as in Asheron's Call and early Star Wars Galaxies) as opposed to classes, ould love to try it out and see how the game stacks up.

Fri Jan 16 2009 11:54AM Report
Baldy writes:

Ciano ignore the people arguing what "carebear" means. They're no doubt new to online gaming. It's like arguing with a child who suddenly wanders into an adult conversation. FYI people, "carebearing" is also a term used by PvP'rs when they're out farming gear, equipment, exp etc. It's used in a derogatory sense sometimes, but over the past 10 years it has just become an industry standard term.

I'm not sure what to make of the blog. There are to many "if they do this right...". But that could be said for any game. I don't think the DF devs expected more players than EvE given their single shard concept. I also don't know what this means in terms of their investment to new servers. I'd say the rig is so complex and expensive with DF that'd we have to be worried about full servers and poor performance much more than having to many servers.

I also don't know the game world's size. 50,000 people less on a server may not make it seem like a ghost town if there's 250k on it already.

Fri Jan 16 2009 12:14PM Report
dma1dma1 writes:

Play BlockLand play the demo or buy it for 20$

Fri Jan 16 2009 1:41PM Report
gamerman98 writes:

HA! *shakes head* there goes yet another clueless fan....

Fri Jan 16 2009 4:48PM Report
Ciano writes:

Ok Gamerman98, why don't you clue us all in since we are all so left in the dark. What is the big horrible secret that the CIA is chasing you down for that none of us poor helpless idiots are privy to?

Fri Jan 16 2009 5:15PM Report
Baldy writes:

That was prolly me and my 50-250k people comment. I got mixed up on server pop vs. online pop when I wrote that. I'm not really sure what the average sub to server/pop ratio is for most games. The closest I know is EvE...and that was ages ago. If I remember correctly we'd be hitting 15-20k milestones for online with 250-300k subs.

Fri Jan 16 2009 6:26PM Report
toddze writes:

take a breath Ciano derogatory terms are used to make the person feel superior over others, otherwise theres no need to use them. Your the one here that seems to be getting offended, and having issues with it. I do not like mmo pvp because its mostly gabage and weak pvp, where it matters what your wearing and how big your gank squad is. I do however love FPS PVP, much more challenging than mmo pvp. So in your eyes am I a carebear beacuse i dont like MMO pvp? If I needed to feel superior I would call you an MMO PvP carebear where everything but player skill matters. but I wont sink to your level because we each have our own gaming prefrance. I like PvE in my mmo's and PvP in FPS. You like MMO PVP so what? It does not make either one of us a lesser gamer.

Fri Jan 16 2009 8:58PM Report
sojobo69 writes:

Omg. people can't you see you got pulled into the back door of a darkfall fanboy . LOL he made a new account/alt and is  trying to push his religion on you.  Now we all know DF has never posted a real release date and lied... o wait they have now. well at least he's not asking for preorders cause taco =) said he would not do that. ... hmm well guess we can mark that off the list. but the word carebear is not ment to be nice . but to me i am a carebear for pvp i don't have the heart or will to grind out hours for gear i want . give me easy kill loot and make armor worthless. seams ffa pvp is really carebear not work needed . o well

Sat Jan 17 2009 12:09AM Report
Ciano writes:


In today's MMO's everything but personal skill does matter. I won't even try to deny that point to you. I hope that Darkfall succeeds because I want somthing other than auto attack/ spam overpowered skill for pvp. I won't deny that I am a Fan of Darkfall. I am not however, a rapid fanboy that can't rationally debate somthing.



I don't see how grinding mindless NPC's for hours so you can get over-powered weapons and armor to pvp with requires skill. It's requires dedication. If you want to be known as a dedicated player then sure take it. Fighting in pvp where weapons and armor don't matter as much as what you do requires skill. I would go as far as to say that a player who grinds mob's for overpowered gear is on the same skill level as a player who buys an account or power levels it. Neither player knows how to pvp and dies frequently.

Sat Jan 17 2009 2:38PM Report
eldanesh117 writes:

Don't see what the big fuss over the term carebear is.

Last to be put in a fight, first to be put into a raid. FYI being a good player doesn't mean dominating at PvP.

Tue Jan 20 2009 9:13PM Report
Qendal writes:

I'm a beta tester.


The game is broken on SO many levels.

The world is empty, GUI SUCKS, spell system is pretty much non existant, the cities are 99% empty of npcs, no animals to hunt, the combat system is broken to say the least, the flagging system for combat is a joke.....


I could go on and on, but you get the point.

Mon Feb 16 2009 2:56PM Report writes:
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