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The World of Russian Tanks and a few other nations that do not really matter.

Balance is something Wargaming has evidently no real grasp on or desire to see done with their new tank game. Balance and realism are changed and swapped with each other when it benefits the Russian line. I do not see this playing out well.

Author: CastorHoS

World of Tanks balance. How it should work if balance is the actual goal.

Posted by CastorHoS Wednesday December 1 2010 at 11:41AM
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     The devs over at Wargaming have made the statement that historical accuracy is not their main concern when it comes to balance.  Lets see if that is really true or some more smoke.

    Balance for this game should be fairly simple since it is a game. Historical accuracy is nice and all but if this were only to be balanced on that kind of data, the game would get old real fast.

     What is the easiest way possible to balance the weights and tiers for each nation with all other nations currently in the game or to be added later? Well we need to start iwth basic facts of the game.


1. All nations tanks differ in size, shape, look or feel, i.e. aesthetics.

2. Balance is an issue of taking what you have and making the same weight and tier across nations end up being as close as possible in the main areas it is to be used.

3. The weight and tier system offer a perfect way to balance without over powering one nation over another and allowing all the weight classes and tiers to be effective.


    Let us use the tier 10 heavy tank first and move forward from there.

    Each heavy tank has slope and armor thickness. In a balanced game this should mean that each of the three current tanks should have a total armor value equal to the other two tanks in the same weight and tier.  If the Russian tank has a slope and armor thickness value of 250mm of effective armor, then by default  the German and the U.S. tanks should have the same effective value of 250mm. Slope will be different between tanks, size, shape, and even the flag it has painted on it should give enough "difference" between the tanks to allow for different strengths and weaknesses between the three but also still holding the same value for each.

    Damage they do would be the next step. If the Russian tier 10 heavy had a penetration value of 225mm and damage of 400 then so should the other two. Want variation and keeping with balance then offer them two choices, a slow firing gun and then a faster firing gun. All that needs done is the dps each of the two guns are able to do ends up so they are balanced.

    Then you work on actual speed, turrent and track traverse speeds, etc so they are all evenly balanced. A heavy tank should be what most of us think of when we see "heavy tank". Up close combat, able to deal and take a good bit of punshment.


    This in turn leads to the different weight classes of actually having roles.


    A medium would have the same values and differences to give the feel of something different just as the heavy would such as slope, size, looks and feel but in the same way the heavies are balanced, so would the mediums.

    A medium could have the "sniper" characteristic. Able to fire from further away to do damage, some speed to manuever in, out or around combat and enough armor to survive and still pull back.


    Then you have light tanks. Fast, high rate of fire, little damage alone but with longer fields of view or sight distances that allow them to scout, harrasse enemy flanks and hound artillery and other weaker armored targets.


As it stands almost all the tanks play the same role. Hide, hope arty doesnt find you or a tank with more armor and a bigger gun and fire at targets of opportunity.

World of Russian Tanks

Posted by CastorHoS Wednesday December 1 2010 at 9:22AM
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World of Tanks is set to update once again. Most f the changes people knew were coming but a few point out how ridiculas the favor of Russian tanks get over any other nation.


List of tank specs changes:


Gun 75mm_KwK_40_L43: dispersion 0.41->0.4.
Gun 75mm_StuK_40_L43: dispersion 0.39->0.38.
Gun 75mm_KwK_40_L48: dispersion 0.4->0.39.
Gun 75mm_PaK_39_L48: dispersion 0.38->0.37.
Gun 75mm_PaK_40: dispersion 0.38->0.37.
Gun 128mm_PaK44_L61: reduced visibility after firing, +20 damage to all shells.
Gun 128mm_PaK44_L55: reduced visibility after firing.

PzII Luchs: reduced visibility during movement.
VK 1602: reduced visibility during movement.
PzIII: reduced visibility during movement, dispersion reduced by 5% during movement and traverse.
Pz III/IV: by 5% improved pass-ability on medium grounds, dispersion reduced by 8% during movement and traverse.
Pz V-IV: chassis rotation is matched with Panther's.
Tiger II: mantlet armor for top turret 65->100.
JagdTiger: 128mm_PaK44_L55 reload (in seconds) 10.4 ->10.36, 128mm_PaK44_2_L61 reload (in seconds) 10.6->10.5.
VK 4502: mantlet armor for stock turret 120->160, mantlet armor for top turret 120->180.


Gun 37mm_M-6_L53: price in credits 8350->2500.
Gun QF_6_pounder_Mk_III: penetration: AP 89->110, APCR 145->180, accuracy 0.4->0.38.
Gun 75mm_Gun_M3_L37: dispersion 0.38->0.4.
Gun 75mm_Gun_M2_L28: dispersion 0.39->0.41.
Gun 76mm_Gun_M1A1: reload (in seconds) 3.2->2.85, dispersion 0.37->0.38.
Gun 76mm_Gun_M1A2: dispersion 0.34->0.35.
Gun 90mm_Gun_T15E2M2: dispersion 0.33->0.32, reduced dispersion during turret traverse.
Gun 105mm_Howitzer_M2A: reduced aiming time by 15%.
Gun 105mm_Howitzer_M4: reduced aiming time by 15%, HEAT penetration 60->53.
Gun 120mm_Gun_T53: aiming 3.0->2.4, reduced dispersion during turret traverse.
Gun 155mm_Gun_T7: aiming 3.0->2.7, significantly reduced dispersion during turret traverse.

Engine Wright_G200_m_781C9GC1 level 8->7, price in credits 72380->47600, chance of fire 0.2->0.25.

T29, ?32, ?34, ?30: fixed error with discrepancy between displayed and actual hull armor. Actual armor decreased by 20%.
M6, T1: reduced experience cost Wright_G200_m_781C9GC1 19800->10900.
?-57: pass-ability reduced by 10%, reduced traverse speed by 2 degree/sec, decreased accuracy during movement and turning by 3%.
?2 lt: reduced repair cost by 30%, increased ammunition capacity of 20mm gun.
M7 Priest: 105mm_Howitzer_M - reloading time decreased 13.95->11.76 (in seconds).
RamII: reduced repair cost by 20%.
?14: reduced repair price by 5%.
T29: increased visibility of the tank, by 5% increased influence of movement and traversing on accuracy, 105mm_Gun_T5E1 - reloading (in seconds) 9.5->10, by 10% reduced speed of traverse for top turret, fixed display of frontal armor for both turrets, changed guns ammunition.
?32: by 5% reduced pass-ability on medium grounds, by 8% decreased accuracy during movement and traverse, by 6 deg/sec reduced traverse speed of first tracks, by 2 deg/sec? - of second, 105mm_Gun_T5E1 reload (in seconds) 9.38->9.4, changed guns ammunition.
?34: changed guns ammunition.
?30: changed guns ammunition.


Engine V-2-54: increased horsepower by 20 h.p.
Gun QF_6_pounder_Mk_III: AP penetration 89->110, APCR penetration 145->180.
Gun 76mm_S-54: dispersion 0.4->0.36.
Gun 76mm_S-54_S: dispersion 0.37->0.34.

?-20: decreased visibility during motion and rest, improved pass-ability of top tracks on medium and hard grounds.
?-32: decreased visibility during motion and rest.
BT-2: decreased visibility during motion, by 6% reduced influence of movement and traverse on accuracy.
BT-7: reduced visibility during motion and rest, improved pass-ability on medium grounds, by 4% decreased dispersion during movement and traverse, view range for top turret increased by 15 meters.
?-26: reduced visibility in motion.
?-34-85: by 20% improved pass-ability on medium and good grounds.
?-43: by 9% decreased influence of movement and traverse on accuracy.
?-44: by 5% decreased influence of movement and traverse on accuracy, by 25% increased durability of tracks.
IS-4: armor: hull-upper plate 120->140, driver's lug 120->160, rear-upper plate 120->100.





I am starting to think that the dev crew for this game are so completely caught up with fictitious statistical data, that they seem to be able to show any tank that a Russian tank feels threatned by needs a nerf, is how a well balanced game goes.

With the buffs they are putting out, they are making the Russian IS4 along with a few other tanks in the Russian line well beyond the tanks from the opposing nations of the same tier and weight. The only good thing out of this will be that any comptitive scenes that pop up for this game will those players to know exactly which nations tanks to use to win. 

The World of Russian Tanks and a few other nations that do not really matter.

Posted by CastorHoS Tuesday November 30 2010 at 10:06AM
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    Having spent close to 20 years in or around the game industry I have to say that balance is one of the most common problems that any player or developer faces in a game where people are able to either square off against one another or stats are kept.

    Who has the most kills, damage over time, hardest single blow, who has taken the most damage, etc, etc, etc. These are all stats we look at when a game lists them and more times than not can point to balance issues within a game. Other times they may simply point to the difference between classes in a game. 

    Balance is something that is as important to a game as anything and when done well the game is enjoyable for all. When done poorly, well, let's just say that some people like the challenge of taking underpowered classes or characters as far as they can. I can only pound my head off of that wall so many times before it gets old in a hurry.

    Enter World of Tanks. Enter World of Russian Tanks with a few other nations that do not really matter. The first name is the correct one, the second is what the game is beginning to feel and look like to those not stuck playing Russian only tanks.

    Balance in this game is done by using some data pulled from the Russian servers to show how well tanks survive, the damage they deal, damage done to them and their win rates.  If you are scratching your head on how this actually is being used to balance tanks you are not alone.

    Each nation has, or will have, three distinct lines for vehicles in the game. Self-propelled guns (artilery), tank destroyers (think howitzer with treads) and tanks (light, medium and heavy). These lines are then broken into tiers, so far tier one through ten are in for most of them with a few exceptions left out in closed beta. These can easily be seen by going to the World of Tanks website, since I do not have permission to report them I am unable to help you with that part.

    Now the tiers are the important factor. This is basically the "level" system of the game. Tier one is the lowest and tier ten the highest. Pretty straight forward and consistant with what we have in other games. Then comes the problem of balance.

    If you look at a Tier 8 medium tank between the 3 existing nations you should see either of a few ways to balance them out against one another. Either they straight up possess the same damage, speed and armor or one may have an advantage in speed while it falls below the others in armor and damage, or a variation of that thought process. This game does not have that and from all looks and talks of the developers, never will.

    What the developers have done falls more along the lines of propganada then a game. I hate to put it that way but as I said, in 20 years of being either a gamer or sitting on the other side of the fence, I have never seen or heard of such a blatant attempt to underpower one or more sides while giving such a large advantage to the "home team". Pick almost any current FPS out and you would be hard pressed to see any large gap between one nation or side over an opposing nation or side.

     Their testing and balancing methods have been picked apart to show the lack of consideraton for the one main thing that can skew any data collected for a game, the human element. One player alone with a fully upgraded crew and tank can swing some battles all by themselves. You also have maximum 3 man squads which also factors into that. Poors players also factor into this and can hurt that data from being accurate because of one game design element that has already shown to skew data, that being the autoaim feature.

     Autoaim will lock on to a target for you in order to track targets far away. This is fine for that purpose or if a tank is tanding still it gives you the ability to simple lock on and fire away. The problem lies n the fact that the autoaim locks on to the turret of the tank ( the most heavily armored part) and it does not lead a moving target for you. Read that again and then go back to the metrics they use to determine balance.

     See the problem yet? A couple hundred lazy players who would rather ping round after round off a turret are going to skew the data used to see damamge being done and/or taken. It is also going to skew how well one tanks survives vs. how well the others in it's own tier survive.

     They do have a very good concept for a game. The implementation and follow through is something else. Star Wars Galaxies and a lot of other games were good concepts and they failed.