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BadSpock's Logical Conclusions.

My random thoughts about MMORPGs. A bit of critique, suggestion, debate, and insanity. Enjoy.

Author: BadSpock

Forum posting 101

Posted by BadSpock Wednesday December 12 2007 at 3:01PM
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I'm so sick of all this B.S. from the extreme hard-right side of MMO gamers.. the so called "hardcore."

They were around in the early days of the MMORPG. When games were a lot more tough and unforgiving.

They are now the very loud and very vocal minority. They feel as if they are right and all the new MMORPG players are wrong or stupid or weak etc. etc.etc. They feel that they are special because they've been banging through MMOs for a long time. You are not special. You are the minority.

Truth is, the genre has changed. Some of us old school MMO vets like me have changed with it and learned to enjoy the more casual aspects of our favorite MMOs.

You "hardcore" seem to cling to the bygone days of old, somehow expecting that they'll come back. They won't. It's plain and simple. You have ONE game in development that promises to be an "old school" experience, and most would consider that game to be vaporware with no real chance of release.

Besides that, there is one game out there that is still "hardcore" and follows the old school set of rules, EVE, and I know a lot of you enjoy it. Great, awesome, I'm happy for you. 

Now shut the f*#$ up.

I know there are a lot of newer MMO players that defend their modern-generation games with just as much zealotry and bias as you "old school" vets who do nothing but spit the same trash as the three posters before you did. (McDonalds, Brittney Spears, Chinese Gold farmers anyone?)

Seriously. Get over it. Play EVE, hope for Darkfall, or move on. All this WoW bashing and "carebear" crap and "linear sucks this" and "linear sucks that" bull sh!t is annoying, childish, and just plan stupid.

If you really are so "mature" and want games with more "challenge" that take more "intelligence" then you should learn to post with intelligence, maturity... or is that too challenging?

The younger generation MMO players are just as guilty of immaturity and stupidity as they exhaustively defend their MMO of choice from the "hardcore" zealots.

I know it won't end, I know ya'll don't care. You enjoy bickering back and forth about this that and the other thing, pretending as you type behind your anonymous screen name that you are more wise and intelligent then the poster before you, as if your opinion carries more weight.

So what's the problem?

One problem is that people are far too passionate about the game(s) they love and the game(s) they hate. You can't blame them though, spending so much time and money to play the same game for months/years takes dedication. Of course we are passionate about something we are so dedicated to.

But honestly, think for a few seconds before you write some hateful or just plain ignorant post about about a game you don't like. And please, please learn to attack the arguement not the poster.

"You're argument is dumb" is 10000x better then "You're dumb."

I enjoy the spirited and intelligent debate I find on forums. Though, it's becoming more and more rare. I also use this site to catch up on the latest news and information regarding the genre of games I love so very much.

I understand that people need to vent sometimes. And often, we vent in a public setting (like an internet forum) in order to find relief from our frustrations/anger by sharing a common viewpoint with others. It's one of the reasons why people post on forums in the first place.

Just please make sure to rant/rave in the appropriate game forum, and please do try to understand that just because you think a certain way, doesn't mean others do to.

Be respectful.

This is to both sides of the fence. The "hardcore" and the "carebear."

We are all guilty of being little sh!t heads on these forums. I know I have been.

In fact I am guilty, right now, of venting on a public website. Throwing my thoughts/opinions onto this blog page for all the read and criticize if they so choose.

Any time you put something out there for the public to see, you face the risk that it will not be well received.

You can only hope and pray that those who disagree respond in a constructive, intelligent, and mature way..

I see less and less of it these days on

We have all been disapointed, we have all been let down, we have all hoped and dreamed and had these ideals squashed down. Many at have become jaded, we have been wronged... and we have our right to be upset and to cast our frustrations outwards for all the see....

But also remember that we have all had great times, enjoyable experiences, and good friends in MMORPG games... we wouldn't be here, at, or playing the MMORPG genre if we didn't.

That's all I got.

streea writes:

Ah the joys of gross generalizations.

Wed Dec 12 2007 3:22PM Report
neschria writes:

I <3 this entry.

Wed Dec 12 2007 3:38PM Report
t0nyd writes:

Free speech is great isnt it. I say let the ranters rant about the ranters ranting. Everyone rants and hates. Shrug. If people didnt take it so personal it wouldnt be a problem. Id rather someone tell me their honest point of view. Its just text...

Wed Dec 12 2007 4:20PM Report
BadSpock writes:

streea - like I clearly said, I'm talking about the vocal minority. Just like you offered nothing constructive

neschria - thanks

t0nyd - Free speech is great. but so are self control, common sense, and being tasteful. Unfortunately, so many here know all two well about the former and not enough about the later.

But you are right, it's all about people taking it personally.

I guess I did come across at being very personally offended when I wrote this blog post.. that was not the intention.

It is just text, but so was Mein Kompf. I know I know, it's a bad comparison... but you get the point? Text can have power and meaning, hence people need to be more careful.

You may be anonymous as you post on these message boards, but your words can have an effect on another very real person.

Honestly is obviously high encouraged, but one can be honest without being an ass at the same time, surprisingly enough.

(obviously none of that rant was directed at you t0nyd, I've always respected your postings)

Wed Dec 12 2007 4:26PM Report
Hexxeity writes:

Ignorance is just so rampant, it's hard to be civil all the time.

In so many posts, you can tell the person has absolutely no experience of MMOGs beyond one or two games, and so they have no idea what's been tried before, what has worked, and what has failed and why.

Wed Dec 12 2007 4:31PM Report
BadSpock writes:

But should ignorance / inexperience be countered by cruelty and a demeaning tone?

I know what you say Hexxeity, people say "why isn't X like Y?!?! WTF" when those who have been around a long time know that Y didn't work and X was just plain broken...

I get what you are trying to say.

As with all things in life, you'll find that many of the truths we cling to are dependent upon a certain point of view.

Wed Dec 12 2007 4:39PM Report
JB47394 writes:

heerobya: "Free speech is great. but so are self control, common sense, and being tasteful. Unfortunately, so many here know all two well about the former and not enough about the later."

That was beautiful  :)

heerobya: "It is just text, but so was Mein Kompf."

Indeed.  Or the Declaration of Independence.

That said, I think you're spitting into the wind.  Realize that those who are hardcore about this stuff are hardcore about a game.  It is a form of entertainment and it has come to dominate the lives of far too many people.  Trying to talk to hardcore players about priorities is probably not going to be a very fruitful line of discussion.

Note that the way you're talking about the good old days sounds very much like the sorts of statements that I heard from people coming out of those old school beta tests.  Everyone got along really well, they were into experiencing the game, they enjoyed the sense of community of people who were working together to help get a product on its feet, dressed neatly and sent tottering off to its first day of school. 

Then the gates opened and the barbarian horde flooded in.  In other words, the product got released.  End of the sense of community and camaraderie as anyone with $15 could do anything permissible in the game.  There's gotta be a lesson in there somewhere.  Probably something to the effect that the unwashed masses do not play well together.

Wed Dec 12 2007 4:54PM Report
Baio2k writes:

I think most people just want innovation, which the genre has Failed at making progress on for 5 years, despite the industry growing 1000 fold.

Wed Dec 12 2007 7:41PM Report
Xarixer writes:

"You are not special. You are the minority."

So, being the minority means....... we are special right? :P

Through the years in mmorpg's I have developed a pretty good filter in my head to ignore flames and smacktalk. I know it's there. My eyes see it but my mind not even registering it anymore.


Thu Dec 13 2007 5:50AM Report
Dreadlich writes:

Agree 100%. Be careful posting this kind of stuff in threads though. I said pretty much the same thing and got a ban for trolling. Apparently single line flames get a pass, but criticism like yours is considered inflammatory....

Those that consider themselves hardcore and hate on all MMOs now are akin to religious fanatics IMO. They're convinced only they know what's right and that their genre is being destroyed by unenlightened heathens.

I've played rpgs since the early 80s, computer games since pong, and MMOs since '99. I value and enjoy gaming in all forms, and I wish that people could just enjoy themselves more and stop being so critical of every single title that gets released. If you can't find fun in games then you're doing something wrong and no developer is going to bring back that initial feeling you had when you discovered MMOs.

None of this matters though. Like I said, they're entirely convinced of their rightness and will not be dissuaded from their gloomy crusade to remake the genre into what they consider was it's golden age. WoW is the anti-christ and apparently Darkfall is the second coming...

Thu Dec 13 2007 6:22AM Report
NightCloak writes:

Let people do as they will. Eventually one of them wins a Darwin Award and you are that much better off.

If they rant or speak like they need a tutor for basic communication, then ignore thier ramblings or attempt to translate it into something comprehensible.

Imposing will onto another only sparks flames. Nobody like being told what to do and what they are doing is wrong or how they are doing it is wrong.

Personally I see nothing wrong with ranting about ranting. I also like the approach taken as one of frustration towards the people that just spew idiocy. Even with generalizations, which are sometimes needed, it doesnt come across as particularly demeaning to anybody in particular, just to the style of communication used.

Thu Dec 13 2007 6:28AM Report
BadSpock writes:

Well first I'd like to thank all of you for posting constructive comments.

I was worried I'd get flamed for this post and that would really bring me to a boil lol. Thanks for restoring some of my faith in humanity / posters :)

I know there was really no point to my post, that I am "spitting at the wind" but I dunno, I felt that maybe if one person read it and realize that they were part of the problem, then just changing one mind would be enough.

I love this genre, I've been playing MMOs off and on for almost 9 years now. It's a very hard place to be, one of the "old school." You have two options, adapt or fight. I've chosen to adapt, but I understand why many have chosen to fight. I just wish some of my fellow veterans would chose to fight fairly instead of resorting to this "better then thou" attitude.

Thu Dec 13 2007 9:56AM Report
Flungmuk writes:

On a hurmors note...if we didnt have L33t speaking flamers...who would we make fun of? even if just mentaly.

But really, I think one of the reasons people so adamentaly fight for "their" game is not only time invested, but also, many people dont like change. Not all change is bad, but people still seem to resist.

I remember in my old EQ guild we had a few that freaked out and quit when they upgraded the character models. No getting all worked up over changes like the NGE/CU for SWG, even though I wasnt playing then, I can sure understand the frustration that having every aspect of a game you love change.

A little more tact in general would be a nice thing. But so would seeing people thinking a moment before they set themselves up by asking really dumb questions. Excample, people asking on the AOC board if they can play an Elf. :)

Thu Dec 13 2007 11:02AM Report
vajuras writes:

Nice I enjoyed this one but i refuse to believe im a minority in regards to wanting great, awesome PVP especially when I look at PVP as a whole (all genres).

But yep lately instead of waiting on a moderator to BAN me I just ban myself for a few days. even if i was a carebear I'm sure I'd argue myself into a ban really regularly. sigh, just got a warning this morning for posting off topic. sigh, I just like restraint....

Tue Dec 18 2007 10:44PM Report writes:
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