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BadSpock's Logical Conclusions.

My random thoughts about MMORPGs. A bit of critique, suggestion, debate, and insanity. Enjoy.

Author: BadSpock

On the bandwagon!

Posted by BadSpock Thursday February 14 2008 at 12:32PM
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Yep, it's true.. I'm jumping on the "let's discuss FFA PvP again" bandwagon. 

Here are my viewpoints, cut/pasted from other blogs on this site (like this one)

  • I really think that only a small % of people who want FFA PvP want it for the ability to gank/griefer others. Those that do want to gank/grief others are just tools, and nothing can be done for them.

    I believe that the majority who want FFA PvP really just want FFA faction/guild PvP. They want to choose their alliances, choose their enemies, and wage their own wars, not the pre-defined allies/enemies the devs force them into.

    If you were to create a game where Guilds could wage war with each other, and guilds could band together to form their own factions, and thus choose what other guilds/faction to war against, that would be enough FFA PvP for the majority of those who want FFA PvP.

    For the small minority that just want to gank/grief random players and slaughter noobs, well, you are the reason FFA PvP doesn't exist anymore. It's not the "carebears" fault, it's yours.

  • You made my point for me by saying "With FFA-PvP you had the anti-PK guilds, the PK guilds, the neutral guilds, the policiing guilds and the gank squads everywhere, all in a harmony in a system that worked."

    You are right, like I said, FFA PvP is all about community.

    If you aren't one of these guilds, these "factions" then you are merely the victim of the system, not a participant in it.

    HENCE, why so many games have gone to or are going to Faction based and/or guild based PvP only.

    It garauntees that those who PvP aren't outside the system, but a part of it.

    Getting ganked (which I define as simply being outnumbers/ambushed/swarmed etc.) is totally OK and a part of the game, IF you are a member of the faction/guild in opposition to those that ganked you.

    If you are random Joe unguilded noob and a squad of PKs randomly kills you, it sucks, they are cowards, and you hate the game for it.

    Get what I'm saying? 

    FFA PvP ends up breaking down into these groups, these guilds, these factions anyway, but it still REALLY sucks for those who are not part of the system.

    And that, I think, is the reason so many dislike FFA PvP. 


    FFA PvP only "works" if the community is there.

    The "lone wolf" will always be the victim. I hated the FFA PvP in UO until I joined up with a large guild. Garaunteed protection and friends who wouldn't grief you. It completely changed the game for me.

    If everyone who played was garaunteed a good guild to run with and some teammates to support them, FFA PvP is actually not that FFA, but instead factional. It will break down in Guild vs. Guild or Faction vs. Faction, but there will always be those without a guild or faction to align themselves with, and they will always be the victim or victimize others. 

    That is why FFA PvP was pretty much abandoned long ago and Faction or Guild based PvP has become the "norm." It garauntees support and belongingness, and help eliminate the "random PK" factor which can (and will) ruin the game.

    Open world (i.e. non instanced/balanced teams) PvP is generally all about strength in numbers. Sure, player skill, terrain, preparedness etc. will always help, but no matter those factors 30 vs 10 I'm always putting my money on the team of 30.

    Griefing someone for no reason, which I define as "killing someone who has absolutely zero chance of defending themselves" just to be a d*ck and kill them is childish. The more that can be done to prevent this, the better. Even in a "FFA" game, measures SHOULD be taken to prevent vets from slaughtering noobs.

    Vets  who kill noobs are cowards. This is not an argument, it is fact. They blah blah blah about "Real PvP and challenge" but ganking/griefing is not real PvP, nor is it challening, it's a pathetic practice by insecure *ssholes who are too scared and cowardly to start a fair fight. Their bullys. Sad, lonely bullys. 

    Real PvP, just to let you know, is a fair fight or a fight where one party/person has a slight advantage, but the possibility of loss is always there. Ganking/griefing create NO possibility of loss, and are thus NOT real PvP. It's cowardice.

    Most FFA PvP i have ever seen ends up being faction/guild vs. faction/guild anyway, it's just the few *sshats who are bored/unguilded etc. will greif/gank random noobs to feel better about themselves, and it's always pathetic.

    In terms of full looting, it only "works" when gear is easily replaced and their is no "uber" gear. Like old Ultima Online. Full looting simple will not work in item centric games, nor will ever be attempted by any game that is item centric. Item centric + full loot = bankrupt devs and server shut down. 

    The closest I think we'll ever see in a modern, AAA title to FFA PvP is games with faction vs. faction and Guild vs. Guild. Any faction member can kill any one of an opposite faction at any time, any where. Any guild can declare war on any other guild, no matter the faction, and those guilds can kill each other any time, any where.

    That is as close as I believe we'll see to true FFA in any future released AAA title. 

    Look at EVE, the only remaining mostly FFA PvP game. The majority of the uber-awesome exciting PvP people talk about is Corp vs. Corp. Corps are allowed to choose who they war with, who they ally with. But you also have ganker/griefer pilots who ruin the game for others because they are too scared to join the big conflicts, fight fairly, and risk losing their precious stuff.