Trending Games | World of Warcraft | Overwatch | Anthem | The Division 2

    Facebook Twitter YouTube YouTube.Gaming Discord
Quick Game Jump
Members:3,836,660 Users Online:0

Show Blog

Link to this blogs RSS feed

Ambre's blogroom on

A place to share my ideas, expectations, thoughts and impressions about my favorite gaming genre : MMORPGs. I plan to write articles about the games I play, the new MMO releases, but also some meta-theory about MMO design and virtual worlds.

Author: Ambre

Is there a future for Themeparks ?

Posted by Ambre Wednesday April 20 2011 at 10:57AM
Login or Register to rate this blog post!


Aren't we... ?


Yesterday I was playing one of our core themepark MMO, and I was really playing the game. I mean I was paying attention to the story, actually reading the quests for once and trying to feel the immersion (no I'm not talking about the game on that pic above if you're wondering). So I happened to talk to this guy, the chief of the village, and after some investigation I was basically telling him how much he screwed up, his close allies had already betrayed him, he was getting old and stupid, and his village was on the verge of being invaded and burnt down to the ground. So he gave me a nice pair of boots. Wait... What ? Seriously ? I told him how much he sucked and he gave me some boots ? He could have done anything from slapping me, to putting me into jail, or even bursting into tears, but instead no... you're a good boy, take this new shiny piece of gear and keep running the little errands for every NPC around. At this point I realized how pointless it was that every NPC I talked to had to give me something. Even the beggar lost in the forest happened to have some particularly interesting shiny stuff fitting perfectly my class he had no desire for. As every two minutes of my gameplay had to be rewarded by a new piece of gear, in the end the whole stuff meaning absolutely nothing, the very future began to unfold before my eyes : ultra modern themeparks will end up equipping this new gear for me automatically so I won't even have to notice that I got it in the first place and the circle will be completed. What's the point already ?

I remember playing the old D&D pen and paper games, when you got that +2 sword it really meant something, and it never fell out of a random NPC's pocket, not even talking about most of the other games you did not have any stats on stuff at all. Imagine a modern fantasy MMO where the only gear you could get was your own clothes, your bag and a sword. Nothing more, and nothing magic. Maybe later you would get a magical item, but much later, only after great achievements story-wise, or having defeated powerful enemies, and that would be just a maybe, no guarantee. But wait... oh no, it couldn't work because players would not feel this constant gratification that entice them to keep coming for more. Still I start to feel that we have reached a point when instant gratification doesn't mean squat, because it's not tied to anything meaningful : no challenge, no risk. Just click a few things on the screen, and you get your new loot with better inflated stats. For all those years how is it possible we haven't come up with something better ? Or something different ?

'That's the way MMOs are. Just quit if you don't like it, some rabid forum fan could tell me, you've just burned yourself out on the whole genre.' No I haven't sir. I'm just vomitting quests and bind on pick-up gear at the moment, because I got fed by too much of that over the last years. Let me vomit in peace, and accessorily have a good rant about it (you're not compelled to read it). Still I assure you if it can ease you that I don't feel any more clever or smart in the process, as if I would have understood something extraordinarily subtile in our favorite genre that others wouldn't have, and I quite envy people who can still have tons of fun the way it is. But seriously, why does every new game that comes out has to repeat those exact same mechanics on every single aspect (and accessorily fail) ? Like that constant bind on pick up loot overdose we're being fed with quest after quest (Teala wrote a good blog article here on about gear overdose).


The WoW model

You still want to take on the undefeated cow... ?


When talking about Rift recently in an interview with Gamasutra, Scott Hartsman its executive producer said 'it's got to have plenty of the traditional stuff that people want in an MMO as well as a whole lot of things that make it unique'. Later he says 'So, yeah, if you look at a game like World of Warcraft, how many tens of millions have touched that game in its life? […] You can build a really ridiculously healthy business by just making that group of people happy. If nothing else, we definitely know the audience that we're going after'. The picture is pretty clear. Scott's game is not meant to revolutionnize the MMO market, just to appeal to its already existing playerbase, and most of them being found in WoW, Rift is meant to offer WoW players a similar experience with new perks. Let's just hope for the sake of the process the new perks hold on, because otherwise once the newness wears off most of the attracted players will be back to WoW or their previous online game in no-time.

And that pretty much sums up almost every MMO release since 2006 (the new perks never holding on). Is it that WoW got too big and made too much money for game developpers not to feel the pressure of having to try the same recipe ? And if they didn't want to, their producers or investors would tell them they had to anyway ? All hail to WoW, the master, the king, and the god of themeparks. It invented the genre, the style, mastered it in every possible way and just crushed every direct concurrent into oblivion. When asked a few years ago what he would do if he could take over control of one major MMORPG , Richard Bartle said 'I'd take over World of Warcraft and I'd close it'. Not many understood what he meant back then, and he got flamed alot for that, but it does makes perfect sense in a way. If WoW wasn't here we would probably see a much more diverse creation in terms of MMO games, Rift wouldn't be Rift, WAR wouldn't be WAR, AoC wouldn't be AoC, or maybe they would all be truly themselves, that is completely different one from another.

I still think that bashing on WoW is a little too easy though, and doesnt answer anything. WoW is a really good game in its kind, it does what it does, and it does it well. As long as people keep on subscribing to the game it has no reason to change anything, they should even make it more of a themepark every new patch as it seems to be what makes its success in the first place. On the other hand I pity other companies game developpers, publishers or whoever, whatever their reason is, for not having the bollocks to at least try to create something different, to try to 'create', period. Virtual worlds could offer infinite different kind of models and mechanics for their players to immerse in, why do developpers have to stick with the WoW-clone model, the very same mechanics, and the inflated gear stats ? I know alot of people don't like the 'WoW-clone' expression, as it's been overused on the forums, but on this precise point it's a bit simpler to write and to understand than something like the 'themepark level based RPG quest and inflated bop-gear grind with a token collecting rinse and repeat instanced end-game'. Even on this long expression you miss alot of unique features WoW has and other mmos copy without any shame, like no real penalty or risk to lose anything, end game raids, regular level raises, class system, auction houses... etc. And if you think the 'themepark level based RPG quest and inflated bop-gear grind with a token collecting rinse and repeat instanced end game' is the only kind of MMORPG possible in the whole world and people should stop playing MMORPGs if they don't like it, well... think again. Seriously do. And don't ever work for a game company... please !

The collapse of Themeparks, is it ever coming ?

WoW's attraction and playerbase has become so strong, that it does not only affect players who boycott other MMOs they could potentially like better (yes there are some older games that play differently, and yes I have some friends who never wanted to give a fair chance to anything else than WoW even when they claimed they got bored with it). It also dramatically affects other MMO companies, and game developpers who can't seem to get rid of its influence. It's like starting from scratch they already have the WoW's model on their draft when designing a new game, not a blank page as they should have. They look at what they could change, and come to the conclusion they'd better not change too much (hey Rift !). That doesn't necessarily mean they make bad games, not at all, just that they make the same old thing over and over and over. When does it stop ?

It can stop when players stop to buy these games in the first place, and therefore developpers realize that the shiny model doesn't work anymore. But who says that's the case ? Players as a matter of fact have already stopped to subscribe to most of them (but to WoW of course). But they still run like a horde of starving fanboys to every new release that promises them the moon (me being the first more often than I'd like to admit). So those will always sell like 1M boxes and even if they end up having 50k subs 10 months later some of them will still be profitable. So when do we learn ? When will we be able to really make up our minds and send a clear message to the devs : 'guys WoW is cool, but we already have WoW if we want to play it, can't you try to make something that plays differently for once ?' No bind on pick-up gear grind, or no levels, or maybe no classes, no endgame raids, no instanced dungeons, no repetitive quest grind, no meaningless death. Don't necessarily remove all of those : just remove one, two, or three and we could already have a very original game compared to what we've witnessed recently.

But here I'm assuming a little too fast that no other Themepark like WoW but WoW himself could ever be successful. By successful I don't mean profitable, as I'm talking from a player's perspective and not an investor's perspective (I'm sure some rushed sub based themeparks with overpriced cash shops have managed to be profitable despite falling really fast in terms of population). By successful I mean getting an expanding world and playerbase, the ability to constantly attract new players, even if starting small. I'm talking about creating a game that makes its players want to stay on the medium or long term, talk about it to their friends and family even after the first few months, and not just rush to the max level and quit. Can a WoW-clone... sorry a Themepark ever achieve that ? Do we want more themeparks because that's the style of MMO we like, and it happens we just got unlucky with the recent ones ?

I don't believe in hazard when things can be explained by logic, and therefore I don't think the last batch of themeparks we got those last 5 years that miserably failed is due to just bad luck, bad devs, bad companies and rushed products. I tend to think that most of the MMO playerbase, and even the WoW's players, are already bored to death by the ultra classic themeparks mechanics, or if they are not completely it's routine already and they aren't surprised anymore. That explains why when a new MMOs comes out you have so many players eager to spend 50$ to try it out right now. Once they see it's same old same old, or once they get bored by the themepark model once again, sometime not even knowing what's exactly the cause, they just go back to WoW or their former game where most of their friends and guildmates still are. Considering this, it looks difficult for a pure themepark to be really successful other than directly beating WoW, they can enjoy a moderate success certainly (as Lotro had, and Lotro is quite an original game on several of its mechanics by the way), but they cannot live up to the hype made both by all the aspirations and projections of players, and the added boredom of 6 years of the same WoW mechanics making players secretely hope this new game is gonna be different and surprising when it's not meant to be in the first place by the devs themselves. But who knows ? Maybe a new themepark will come soon and prove me wrong. I kinda hope so. Is it possible ?


Is SWTOR the savior ?

How can't this be great as a MMO... ?


It looks like we have the perfect candidate coming (and now I'm putting my anti-flame +10 titanadamantium-vest because I'm about to touch to the sacrosanct of the holy things, how dare I !). Star Wars: the Old Republic is the new star wars MMO by Bioware, I guess I don't have to tell you what SWTOR is, everyone knows that as it has generated tremendous expectations from most of the MMO community. Will SWTOR be a themepark with the very same underlying mechanics as WoW ? Let Bioware's president answer the question "It [WoW] has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb." It's very little doubt that SWTOR is gonna be a themepark with all the classic WoW stuff, we've had enough infos so far on the game to be pretty sure on those points. I'm not saying either it will be totally unoriginal, they try to add some new perks of course, and in this case they work really hard on the storyline and on quest mechanics to give players more choices and replayability. SWTOR has captured all the dreams and hopes of so many players, there is little doubt that the game is gonna sell millions of boxes and the servers gonna explode the first two weeks. And even all of that could not be enough for Bioware/EA as it seems they're looking to challenge the big one, Blizzard's mastodon, playing on its field (and they will probably need at least 1M subs for a while just to break even on their huge costs).

I won't take a risk and predict what kind of success or failure one should expect from SWTOR. But whatever it is I think it could be pretty determinant for the future of MMOs. If SWTOR succeeds, reaches the 1M+ sub mark, or even more and stays there, it will prove that there is a future for themeparks if they're done really well, with a lot of investment and time. It will say to the developpers : you can challenge WoW and go after its playerbase, but don't try to do it if you don't play in the very very large budget league (I hope they get the second part of the message, but I'm afraid they won't). On the other hand, SWTOR's failure would be cataclysmic for the genre in the first place, but on the longer term could be beneficial (please don't hate me for saying that !). It would send a clear message : players don't want more of the same old, they already have WoW when they want to play it, not every virtual world has to use the very same mechanics. Eat that devs ! Think better next time. SWTOR could also fail because it would be poorly done, but all the recent stuff I've read or watched about the game make me think it won't, and I really hope it won't. They're working really hard on this one, they're not afraid to postpone its release until it's ready, and all the changes they've managed to pull off since last year look good enough to make me think they know what a themepark is and they're ready to do it well. I could say I already got my popcorn and I'm ready to watch the big show from a good safe distance, but I must admit I'm pretty much more likely to get personally involved and also spam my login button the night SWTOR releases. Yea, I know. You're a MMO addict or you're not.

What do you guys think ? Will we ever see a themepark get as successful as WoW, or even just break the 1M sub bar ? Is there still a future for those games, outside Blizzard's next-gen Titan, or should developpers stop to be hypnotized by the mastodon, start to really think by themselves and create from scratch new games and new worlds with different mechanics ?

Teala writes:

I think in the future we may see one or maybe two themepark MMORPG's that come close to WoW's success --- it really depends on if they go beyond the model used by EQ/WoW and take it to the next level. 

One thing to remember though.  Blizzard had a built in fanbase of 4+ million players.  We were all ready playing there game Diablo long before most other MMORPG's even hit the market.   So we were all familiar with Blizzard.

Second, Blizzard launched at the right time.   Players were all ready burned out on such games as EQ, AC and DAoC.  They were looking for something new, something fresh.    WoW fit the bill.   It was easy to learn, ran on anything, and was a great game at launch.   If you look back, by then we had SWG and EQ2.  SOE killed SWG with the CU and NGE.  So that is a no brainer.  People fled from SWG and many turned to WoW(my whole guild did).  There were people that started playing EQ2 and switched to WoW because EQ2 at the time was having some issues.   I was one that tried EQ2 before eventually heading over to WoW.

So there you go.  Will  game like say SW:ToR be a success?  Or maybe TERA, or some other un-named themepark MMO.  That depends wholly on the game and the people that run it themselves.  If the games just dish out more of the same old-same old...I wouldn't count on it.

Wed Apr 20 2011 4:16PM Report
Jumdor writes:

The theme park will not end. Simply put because today's society is raised on that mind set. Let's ride a ride. Oh! That was fun let's ride a bigger one!

Not to mention WoW's fan base as mentioned by Teala were hardcore before WoW. I can say I was one of those Diablo players, and I had hoped that WoW would follow in it's path. Unfortunately instead I found a long list of pointless grind with little to no lore that could drive me to finish another mundane quest for some wimp to lazy to walk five feet. So he could give me shinies! (I also hate kill the innocent animal quests!)

WoW in many ways drew in a heavier amount of people when they started to advertise in the mainstream market. Nobody had seen advertising for a game on that level. They changed one thing mainly. The way a game could be marketed to the world.

See there is a point that some MMO gamers reach. That point is a mental maturity where they come to realize what they started with has stopped challenging them in the normal sense. I reached it after a solid two months playing WoW back when it was still vanilla. I realized my health suffered from obsession in a game that I couldn't actually beat. I still have a friend who plays it. He played it through his six years in the military. He still plays it with his girlfriend who he met through the game. They play it together.

I've tried playing it again. I run around for about five minutes see the same stuff and hear him talk about all the cool gear he got and I uninstall.

My friend has that mind set that feels gratification and a sense of fulfillment from getting pretty and powerful gear, but in the way I see it he has just been trying to fill an empty spot in himself with something that gives false sense of accomplishment. Themeparks do this. " Quest giver: Step right up! Step right up and hit the clown's nose to win a bear! You sir you look like a strong chap. Hit the clown and win a bear for the little miss!"

A person who wants a challenge will get their pleasure from accomplishing something that was very tough to figure out, or took a lot of work to do. Themeparks can provide this, but the rewards are always cheap stuffed toys and candy. A real challenge provides a player with the sense that they did it and you feel self satisfaction, and you talk with your friends about how cool it was to have defeated the dragon. Yeah the swords and other garbage you got were cool, but you know the challenge was what brought you to that spot not +14 whatever the hell your swinging.

Unless your of the mind set of my friend who wants the best for his character so he can feel awesome about his toon. You will probably have my feeling as to think that maybe the challenge is it's own reward. The challenge was what you were looking for originally. Not the stuff as we all know that's just a level of stuff before the next level of stuff.

I play games to get adrenaline going. That's mostly why I like Survival Horror games more now cause they provide that challenge and fear. To each his own.

My friend plays it now mostly cause he talks about all the time he has invested in it. He's looked for other games and has tried some, but always returns cause for some reason WoW just satisfies him.

You mentioned Dungeons and Dragons. If you ever read the Player handbook 3.5 . I remember there being a race I think it was the halflings who some had the mindset of exploring for the pure joy to test their skills. I feel I would fall under that category.

I have always been the type I would rather play a sport than watch it. I would rather climb a mountain than hear about someone doing it. That is what I would want from my games. Not everyone has that mind set, or maybe they do but no one has provided the right game to open that part of their mind to it. Some people are as mentally asleep as they are physically to a sense of adventure, and until that minset changes we will not see an end to things such as these. 

Wed Apr 20 2011 10:36PM Report
RajCaj writes: highly suggest anyone seriously interested in this subject to check out the Blue Ocean's theory. Blizzard was first to market with a MMO that broke down all the barriers to entry for casual gamers into the MMORPG industry and was in the perfect spot to apply one of the most profitable pricing models (Box Fee PLUS Montly charge) to one of the largest sub sections of the Gamer Pie (Casual Gamers) By the time Electronic Arts or NCSoft knew what was happening, Blizzard had enough time to build its brand even more by refining its product to a spit shine polish. Don't forget the creature comforts that come along with having your own personal, fully customizable, interface and selection of mods. So as the writer points out....more times than not, gamers will rush over to the new thing...only to find out its the same thing they've been doing in WOW (except without all the creature comforts and buddies you've made over the last 5+ years) As for themeparks making it.....I also agree with the OP on that it will fall at the feet of SWTOR. Their budget is unprecidented (300-400 million....didn't Avatar cost 500 million?!?) The problem is that WOW has changed the landscape of what we call the MMORPG playerbase. Before Themeparks (and 7 digit subscriber numbers), the MMORPG playerbase was mostly made up of the traditional sort that played games like Ultima Online and EQ. Enter WOW....and then the mass exodus of casual gamers from consoles, FPS, RTS, etc. The majority of the MMORPG playerbase wants WOW, and rightfully so....they don't have the time, effort, or energy to play a virtual world game. Where this effects the rest of the gamers is that the publishers look at the subscriber numbers, look at how much it costs to put together a polished game & smooth release.....and can no longer justify spending those kinds of bones on traditional MMORPG subscriber base that is on the wrong side of 1,000,000. EA wouldn't touch Mortal Online with a 10 foot pole because it doesn't appeal to enough gamers to pay back the HUGE investment required to put out a AAA quality game. And thats how subs play a part in what we have available to us today. So long as Blizzard isn't caught sleeping, I only see the themepark model falling by its own weight. Eventually enough of the big AAA publishers will lick their wounds and hopefully start focusing on the sects of niche communities under the BIG TENT that is now called the MMORPG Player Base. Thu Apr 21 2011 3:29PM Report
RajCaj writes: Sorry for the double post, I was trying to put some paragraph breaks in so it wouldn't be a massive wall of text. I also wanted to add one other thing. From a developer / publisher standpoint....the linear themepark model allows developers to be more proactive in their development than sandbox development does. Publishers like proactive development because it allows the developers to be more predtictable in their development cycle and for future content updates. From the perspective of a publisher, if your spending 9 figures on a MMO want as much reliable information as you can possibly get. In a sandbox environment, a developer puts a tool out in the world and the players use that tool to create content. This forces the developer to be reactive in their development because its often times "not as predictable" to anticipate how the players are going to use (or exploit) this tool...causing the devs to back track and constantly tweak systems. This could be another reason why so many developers have willingly adopted the linear themepark model. Thu Apr 21 2011 4:06PM Report
Ambre writes:

Thanks for your comments guys.


RajCaj : I deleted the double, no worry. You made really good points, and your theory seems spot on. I also liked the proactive/reactive part.

The blue ocean strategy : I went on wikipedia to read their article. Thanks for making me more knowledgeable ! It obv applies to WoW more than anything else, sadly the end of the wiki is lacking by naming only one known success to their theory (Nintendo). I'd tend to think : can it really be called a strategy or isn't it more a combination of 'right product', 'right timing', and some luck also ? Of course once the success key factors are known theoricist want to formalize them and try to find a recipe to this success, and that's how progress works. In Blizzard case I guess we can agree it was most likely a combination of luck and timing. Blizzard was more trying to replicate Everquest success in their own way, than creating a blue ocean at this time. They had a big fan base with Diable and Stacraft, but they were not confident they could keep those players pay each month for a long time.

More interestingly, if we accept the Blue Ocean model, we understand that trying to take on WoW is not the right strategy at all for any MMO company. It would only lead to create a new competitive red ocean, which by definition is very limited in space and growth. Virtual worlds offer the perfect opportunity for more blue oceans, because the possibilities are just endless and the market is not limited. Those would have of course to play completely differently than WoW. Funny how you can look at the whole picture from different angles and come to a similar conclusion :)

We need innovation, we don't need repetition !


For people interested :

Fri Apr 22 2011 5:49AM Report writes:
Login or Register to post a comment