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MMORPG.com Videos - GAME FACE: FFXIV, WoW, and Sub vs. F2P

Pokket's latest Game Face discusses FFXIV, WoW's 8 year anniversary, and the Sub vs. F2P debate.

Duration: 9:01
Views: 2,065  32 comments
Game: General
Direct Link: http://youtu.be/jVKoZvDKgDQ
Azoth writes:

I could see free trial (no box price) as an option to get more people in. I would restrict it a lot tho.

But I don't think F2P is the only option left. Most hardcore gamers will prefer p2p as it should cost em less while casual would prefer f2p so they can buy the content when they are ready to do it. Most p2p games are basicely B2P for the first month, the first month is almost always free other than the box price, so it gives you plenty of time to figure out if you want to keep playing or not.

I always end up wasting way more money in f2p games than on subs one.  And we are not even talking about p2win games ...

Sat Nov 24 2012 9:15AM Report
InFlamestwo writes: I like Pokket, she's easy to listen to. Sat Nov 24 2012 9:43AM Report
Toland writes: Personally hate F2P. Only F2P I play atm is Guild Wars 2 and I refuse to buy anything with money on it. Sat Nov 24 2012 9:46AM Report
Freezzo writes: I would prefer a removal of box prices, but that's me :) I don't mind the sub, but the $60 + $15 is a bit much for me. Sat Nov 24 2012 9:54AM Report
Slukjan writes: Sub based wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't always $15.  Sub based games that are struggling should lower the rates to like $7.50 per month or something like that. Sat Nov 24 2012 9:57AM Report
Mike-McQueen writes: I don't believe in F2P and won't go near an mmorpg that supports it. I gave gw2 the chance and it burned me. When a game launches F2P that tells me right away that this game is not worth a sub. Any AAA title worth it's salt will go sub based plain and simple. It's garaunteed revenue monthly vs having to dance that P2W line that everyone loves so much. With a sub, everyone's on equal footing so the skilled and the dedicated can actually shine and stand out. IMO that's pretty important. Sat Nov 24 2012 10:29AM Report
Hokie writes:

You know whats funny. Two years ago the "western market" was arguing that FTP was an eastern market sub plan. I remember plenty of discussions on this website about just that. (Seems like Mr Aihoshi was right all this time, and I couldnt have disagreed more, shows you what I know.)

The consensus was that you got less of a game with FTP, and we (the western market) prefers to pay a sub for a better more complete game.

I personally still feel that way. Although GW2 (and PS2) has more or less disproved that, well its just one example of a well built FTP game.

 

Truth is, Im still more than happy to pay a $15 sub, I would prefer to pay a $15 sub, but I do expect a "return on investment" with some serious content updates and a game world where its more than just rading/dungons.

Course thats a different argument and a great topic that was floating at the top for awhile.

I just afraid we'll start seeing a western market saturation will s**t free to play games like the eastern market has. *Look on this sites games list, how many of those are worth playing? (only about .7% of the total listed actually.)

 

Sat Nov 24 2012 11:28AM Report
Dren_Utogi writes: Im not jaded att he mmor;g market, it is going in the right direction and those who fail t go in that direction will not be successful. Sat Nov 24 2012 11:32AM Report
Mike-McQueen writes: Umm so the right direction is f2p garbage that can't keep someone past 30 days? That's all we have had lately. Sat Nov 24 2012 12:02PM Report
morbuskabis writes:

I don't  mind subs at all, if the service is good ( taking care of cheaters, boters, goldfarmer) and of course if the game is good. Atm the F2P is going big, but in 1-2 years time I think that sub will be a accepted model again for games that deliver like Rift dos.

As a customer you have much more power in our hand as a sub payer then a F2P dude.

Free trail would be most wellcome for any MMO, like some demos you have for single player games.

Sat Nov 24 2012 12:30PM Report
dreamscaper writes: F2P has ruined enough games that I enjoy (LotRO, EQ2, Aion). I really hope they keep that nonsense away from FFXIV. There's absolutely nothing that could kill my interest in it faster than it going F2P. Sat Nov 24 2012 1:51PM Report
dreamscaper writes:

(Continued) In my opinion, F2P has a place, but in no way should all games adopt it. The problem with F2P is that it makes the game developers into designing gameplay elements that coerce you paying for things in the shop, as opposed to sub-based games who try to convince you to subscribe by creating a fun gameplay experience.

 

I've quit playing four different titles (see above), including City of Heroes which for  long time was the MMORPG standard that I compared all others to. At the end of the day, I simply can't stand the F2P.

 

The problem is though that as developers the F2P model is too enticing. It has the double whammy of being accessible to kids with no income and having an income potential per individual player that is higher than a sub game (because some people have more disposable income than self restraint and common sense).

Sat Nov 24 2012 1:58PM Report
GwapoJosh writes: Create a game worthy of a sub and people WILL pay.. It's as simple as that. Sat Nov 24 2012 2:21PM Report
postpwn writes:

I like AION's F2P: you get the entire game.  I'm so pleased with AION that I want to support NCSOFT.  I could see myself buying cosmetic items and skins (which is all the cash shop sells).  AION is certainly not Pay-2-Win by any means.

And that right there makes me want to pay.

Sat Nov 24 2012 2:36PM Report
postpwn writes: Wait, did she jokingly call FFXIV "ex-eye-vee"?  I NEED TO KNOW IF THIS WAS INTENTIONAL. Sat Nov 24 2012 2:46PM Report
Hokie writes:

Postpwn, its obvious shes having fun making these videos. She used to make over exagerated faces and ramble which I found funny and entertaining. I kind of miss those.

what I dont want is a Dan Rather presentation style of Gameface....*shivers*

Pokket has her own style and its works.

Sat Nov 24 2012 2:55PM Report
dreamsofwar writes: I don't think F2P is the future. F2P is only happening because the quality of these games are not better than the current sub games on the market. People are still paying to play WoW, same for Rift, and Eve and Final Fantasy XI.  Sat Nov 24 2012 3:43PM Report
Pokket writes:

"This girl will lose 80% of her hair till 35."

 

Actually the hair genes in my family is really strong. Both my mom and dad have a thick and full head of hair.

Also, hair DYE does not damage your hair. It's the bleaching which is VERY controlled when I do my hair. Plus I spend 150 dollars for a special shampoo that won't strip the oils from my hair.

 

So no, I won't lose my hair because I am smart enough to take care of it.

 

SCIENCE.

 

"Wait, did she jokingly call FFXIV "ex-eye-vee"?  I NEED TO KNOW IF THIS WAS INTENTIONAL."

I'LL NEVER TELL :D

 

"Ugg,  just can't do it. I get about 5 minutes into the video and I just can't take it anymore.

It's like listening to a pretentious fullsail student babble in endless circles.  If this was a guy in this podcast, they would have shit-canned it ages ago.

sorry, but I really tried to like this series....just can't do it."

Thanks for your constructive feedb... wait, nevermind. Goodbye =)

Sat Nov 24 2012 6:11PM Report
zanfire writes:

  Much rather a female in front of the camera who actually knows anything about games. Normally places just stick pretty faces on camera who havent a clue, so this girl being pretty AND actually someone who knows about gaming in general is a great thing.

  As for the subject, like others have said, if its good enough, people will sub. A game i played for years (FFXI) is still after 10 years going very well. The issue with F2P that ALWAYS turns me off in most MMOs is that they either nickle and dime you on content, or they sell advantages in the shops, for me killing part of the reason for playing. That's why everyone paying the same amount makes all the player's have the same opportunities.

  Like any product, if you make it good enough, people will pay for it.

Sat Nov 24 2012 6:31PM Report
zanfire writes:

  Much rather a female in front of the camera who actually knows anything about games. Normally places just stick pretty faces on camera who havent a clue, so this girl being pretty AND actually someone who knows about gaming in general is a great thing.

  As for the subject, like others have said, if its good enough, people will sub. A game i played for years (FFXI) is still after 10 years going very well. The issue with F2P that ALWAYS turns me off in most MMOs is that they either nickle and dime you on content, or they sell advantages in the shops, for me killing part of the reason for playing. That's why everyone paying the same amount makes all the player's have the same opportunities.

  Like any product, if you make it good enough, people will pay for it.

Sat Nov 24 2012 6:31PM Report
Omnipro writes: Glad to hear Pokket  will try FFXIV:ARR. I hope she gets on my server Hyperion. Sat Nov 24 2012 7:59PM Report
Searias writes: I have already pre-ordered the game off Amazon. I do agree with Pokket about how it would be benefitial to have a free trial to MMOs at least a few levels so, you can decide if you are going to like the game or not. I had the same problem with Rift, It's a fun game and all but I couldn't find a class that I liked playing and ended up quiting after my first month eventhough I did a 6 month sub hehe. Sat Nov 24 2012 8:33PM Report
Searias writes: Forgot to say I prefer the sub model with a free trial to find out if you like the game mechanics. I don't really like F2P models at all and I think cash shops is what ruins MMOs for me. Sat Nov 24 2012 8:35PM Report
mcrippins writes:

I am so frustrated about the F2P vs Sub arguement. Since when did $15 a month become unobtainable? I think F2P is gradually killing the mmo genre. Subs are a good monetary source for companies to rely on, and free 2 play is a gamble. Granted I personally have spent more money in f2p games than I have on a sub based game. While other people leech off of people like me. Because I pay more, they play for less (or free). 

 

  I am all for free trials. Allow them to level for 1-10 or 1-20 for free to test out the game, but have a subscription model so everyone is equal. I think this goes back to the sense of entitlement that this generation has. Noone wants to work for anything anymore, they just want it given to them for free. If you can afford a computer to run today's modern games, than i'm pretty sure you can afford to pay 50 cents a day for entertainment.

 

/endofrant

Sat Nov 24 2012 11:22PM Report
Rockniss writes:

If the games are free to play, then what is the motivation to even create the game?

I am not quite sure how we can expect free games even considering the possibilities of item malls and various revenue sources.

If we drive the genre into free only, we are going to drive it right into the ground because we all know what a game can be .... See Eve, see EQ, see WoW, see any of the greats that will never come about again.

Buy to play with free trial just seems like the most logical and reasonable model. If its good, more people will buy it and you will make more money, thus we have motivation to make a great game, and developers that made a game that only a select group will play are still going to make money off the box.  

If you want to try to generate more income, try advertisements or buy to play expansion pacs. 

F2P models disrupt the gameplay to much and they create a sense of unfairness to those that are not willing to dish out the money. With that sense of unfairness on one's mind, one will simply walk away. 

***The character class comment is so true, I want to play GW2 so bad, but I just do not like how any of the classes play. I have forced myself over and over to play, but I just can't get into any of the classes. I think wow has just spoiled me too much. I love the wow hunter class with the excellent pet control and response and also the wow shaman classes.***

Sat Nov 24 2012 11:41PM Report
Rockniss writes: Oh and for the record, I do not have a wow sub, I just don't have $15 worth of time to play it anymore. So if you want my money.... Give me a buy to play game that I want to buy. Sat Nov 24 2012 11:44PM Report
dark3n3dsoul writes: In my opinion P2P is the way of the future. F2P is starting to lose its momentum. Final Fatanasy XIV is a great game, they should stick with the P2P model because I know that they will be succesful. F2P had/has its time and place. I remember loving Silkroad Online for a very long time and it was F2P. I now play the new Silkroad R, its still alot of fun. So F2P is good at times, and P2P is good at times, all that truly matters is if the game is good. People need to pick a game and stick with it, and believe in it. Kids listen to me, stop hoping from game to game, I remember when i only had like 1 game to play and that brought me the most joy. Oversaturating the mmorpg market is killing everything for everyone. O yea and one last thing, World of Warcraft sucks and it always had, enough said lmao.    Sun Nov 25 2012 2:42PM Report
erictlewis writes:

Fremium games just turn me off.  When game companies do this you either buy  the unlocks, or you sub. I found with most games that if they had a game worth playing you would pay the sub, and ingore the fremium 

You make a good game you should not have to go fremium. 

Sun Nov 25 2012 7:56PM Report
Stuka1000 writes: I think that most serious MMO gamers would agree that bad and immature communities ruin the games every bit as much as sloppy production values and lack of content.  F2P removes the need for dads credit card, opens the door and rolls out the welcome mat to all those people that we love to complain about.  If the game is good then P2P is the way to go. Mon Nov 26 2012 8:29AM Report
knapu writes:

By saying ill wait until swtor goes free 2 play than i try it out means swtor was obviously a shity game not worth paying a sub for.

Its a common thing among players when we see a lame game we want it to die free 2 play is just as good as dead there be no content updates people lose theyre jobs etz .

Good games allways gonna be worth to sub for

Mon Nov 26 2012 1:33PM Report
Wizardry writes:

Actually the original UI by Square was better than all games,because they liked to keep the UI hidden.What they are doing copying other games,which si a bad idea.The majority i have seen in other games that use a LOT of customizable Ui's resemble nothing organized but instead tons of screen clutter.

Square has NEVER used mass marketing like devs such as Trion/Blizzard do.

As to the "liking it",what really do players do in ANy game that makes any kind of difference?They set out and level like madman and run from quest to quest.So does it really matter what a developer does?

Wow catered to a young demographic,not likely the type of gamer that would drop their level 60/70/80 player and go play another game.

F2p absolutely 100%=the worst possible cimmunity,sub fees keep the game environment  on a MUCh more mature level.Once yo uallow players to do whjat ever the heck they want with nothing to lose,then what do you expect?

Mon Nov 26 2012 4:55PM Report
Dzone writes: I prefer P2P model. It keeps peaple logging in and dont hafta woory about a cash shop. Makes the game world more semelessly real. Plus since peaple are paying monthly they tend to play the game more. Also gives the developers steady cash flow to keep further developing the game. 13$ a month really isnt that much, compared to lot of other stuff irl, like gas prices. Imagine how much we save on gas if we play ffxiv every day and stay home. Mon Nov 26 2012 5:11PM Report

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