Coyote's Howling: Going Broke on F2P
In this week's Coyote's Howling, MMORPG.com humorist Coyote Sharptongue discusses why the seemingly innocuous free-to-play business model ends up costing him an arm and a leg.
Column By Coyote Sharptongue on October 27, 2011
In the days of old before MMORPGs became socially acceptable, just about anything worth playing charged a monthly subscription fee.
And we were okay with that.
While we didn't know the exact numbers, we knew that it couldn't be cheap to develop a game, keep it up to date, and host it on a server farm that we always envisioned to look like a less spidery version of the people pods from the Matrix. It was a monthly membership to an exclusive club, and paying your dues made you feel like you were actually contributing to the cause.
Besides, it’s not like new games were being released every month and you had a ton of options to choose from. There was no “velvet rope” or limited access options – if you wanted to play, you had to pay. They all charged around the same monthly fee, and you’d justify it to yourself because the fifteen dollars you just spent on your sole source of entertainment wouldn’t even buy you a medium soda at the movies.
Hell, you were probably saving money by playing video games.
Fast forward ten years, and the world of gaming has changed drastically. No longer taboo, or “just for geeks”, MMORPGs lost their negative stigma and geeky reputation. Everyone and their literal grandmother now calls themselves a “hardcore gamer” and because of this the market has become absolutely flooded with new games that try appeal to every player in every corner of the world.
Except Chad, because F**K YOU Chad.
The result is usually a visually stunning game with little to no substance or replay value stubbornly clinging onto the “MMORPG” title. It tries to appeal to the masses by having “something for everyone”, and in doing so, it appeals to none.
Games that could once count on loyal followers with subscriptions that lasted for years are now lucky to see three months worth of fees collected before the player gets bored and moves on to the next half-finished World of Warcraft clone.
So in order to make a profit and hold onto some of the money they’ve lost due to shorter subscription lengths, gaming companies are doing the sneakiest, most terrifyingly evil thing that you can imagine:
They’re giving you the game for free.
And I can’t f**king afford it anymore.
Now, I realize that this doesn’t seem to make much sense, so for the six of you who are actually reading this article and didn’t just skim the title so that you could post angry rebuttals in the comment section without actually knowing the content, I’ll explain:
Free-to-play first reels you in by giving you the false impression that the game really is free to play. What it should be called is: “Free to play with limited content and gear that will let you experience the game just enough to have fun, but not enough to actually start pwning faces”.
You see, most free-to-play games limit what you can do, see, or wear while playing the game. Sure, you can go to almost all of the zones and fight almost all of the monsters, but if you want to look cool while doing it, or get there without walking the equivalent of a thousand in games miles…
…they will happily help you out for a small, one-time only fee.
For that fee you’ll get a cool looking horse, or an awesome hat, or maybe access to a mystery box that could possibly contain a powerful item that will give you an advantage in combat while making you the envy of all your friends! It’s only a dollar or two, and you’ll never have to pay for it again.
And suddenly you’re hooked.
They gave you a small taste of the drug for free and now you’re itching the inside of your arm and offering to pay anything for another fix - without realizing how much cash you’re spending. The same cheap penny pincher who complains about spending $14.95 a month to play a fully developed game with no limited content will easily spend twice that to get “luxury items” in a free to play game. A luxury item, I might add, that you have access to at no additional charge if you pay the monthly subscription.
This form of paying piece by piece without realizing it is called a “micro transaction”, and it is the work of the devil.
"Yeah, well I got the game as a gift, only play the free to play portions and haven't spent a single cent in to play the game, so you're wrong. What do you think about that?"
What do I think about that, o' snarky and self righteous fictional question asker? I think that if you're really playing the game, and truly enjoying it, they'll simply wait you out. Time is on their side, and sooner or later you’re going to cave to the lure of getting something awesome for what seems to be “next to nothing”. You don’t want to be the only person on the team without a beanie hat do you?
And if you don’t give in? If you do manage to play for free, not pay a cent, but still enjoy the game and the content to the highest degree possible? Congratulations – you’re in the extreme minority.
Don’t believe me?
World of Warcraft came out with an Epic Mount. Some glittery half-visible horse/griffin/studebaker hybrid that offered like 10% more run speed than the normal 300%+ mounts that were in game. They put it on their website for twenty five bucks, and offered it as a micro transaction fluff piece.
Can you guess what happened?
If you guessed that people pissed themselves with laughter at the sheer gall of Blizzard putting a marginally better mount up on the website for twenty five dollars when there were literally dozens of other mounts that looked cooler already in game for FREE… you’d be wrong. If you guessed that Blizzard made a few MILLION dollars off of a piece of code that was already in game, but not available to everyone, congratulations; you are now aware of the evil contained in the Pandora’s box of micro transactions.
“That’s not fair. Everyone knows that World of Warcraft is pretty much the Special Olympics of gaming. And besides, at least they got a unique, faster mount out of it. It isn’t like they just blew all of their money on stupid hats.”
How right you are my imaginary Devil’s Advocate, they didn’t! Haha! It isn’t like other games have made a metric ass-ton of cash for something as stupid as a novelty hat!
It’s an old grifter rule: As long as you add the word “free” to something, people will literally pay anything to obtain it. Especially if they think they’re about to one-up another player. The micro transaction and free-to-play models are to be both respected and feared, lest they devour your soul.
And your wallet with it.
Luckily, subscription fees aren’t going to go away completely. Every free-to-play game has an all inclusive payment option for that Holy Grail subscription rate of fifteen dollars a month, and as insane as it is to say, it’s often a lot cheaper than playing for free.
Because after a while, all of those silly hats start to add up.
-Coyote
More Coyote's Howling Features:
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Never trust a goblin with a velvet rope and a 'hey, it's all free... ' look on his face.
You'll just wake up in a field with empty pockets, your pants round your knees and rainbows shooting out of your butt.
I know, it happened to me.
Twice.
LOL, excellent article, I totally agree and in fact, am dumber than most people because I currently am "subscribed" to the EQ2 Extended F2P server and not only pay 14.95 a month to play, but pay them extra in the form of SC purchases for items that improve the time to train my skills or for a fast mount early in the game. (or even to get access to all the races, but haven't fallen for that one.
Why do I do this when the regular servers give you access to everything for free? No clue, other than I do enjoy the very healthy population on the Extended servers, especially at the lower levels which in the end, might be the most important thing worth paying for in any MMORPG.
If FTP games really sold only fluff items then everyone would be playing every FTP game. I'm disappointed that more focus didn't go into the PTW portion of FTP games. Some of the best FTP games make their money on PTW items in the cash shops which means you end up spending thousands to be the most competitive you can in the game. ie. Allods, Runes of Magic, Foresaken World...and the list goes on and on.
ROFL!!!!
Yes its free until you want to actually win the game, and at that point its going to cost your first born, and and arm and a leg, and all you credit cards.
Free is not so Free is it now. All one has to do is look at BSG online and others to see that, with all the play to win stuff you have to have to win the game.
That Chad description is priceless. I hate those damn Calvin peeing stickers!
Great article. Like I keep saying there is no such thing as a free game, you eventually have to fork over the mula if you like the game and want to continue playing it. Free-to-play is synonomous with free trial. There really is very little difference. Sure if you have unlimited time, you can eventually get to end game in a free-to-play game without spending money, but really who has the time or the fortitude to do so?
My experience is that f2p games end up costing people far more than the normal subscription price.
And mind you f2p provides no deterrent to a griefer. If they get banned it's a short trip to a fake email and a new account to continue poisoning the community. They breed trolls.
Cheers Coyote, glad to see you in the "against" camp.
Next time around I'd appreciate it if you'd spend some time writing about the newest trend: box price + sub fee + CASH SHOP! I.e. The Secret World and to a lesser extent (due to no box price) EVE online.
That's evil squared and fully deserving your personal attention, imho.
If I had to spend more than the usual $15/month I would pay in a P2P game just to do things in a FTP game, I'd stop playing it.
$5 here and $10 there isn't so bad if that's once a month. If you go over $15, STOP PLAYING. Try being a responsible adult and budgeting your allowance for what you want to game with. If you see you are going over that, show some self control and DON'T spend extra.
If you find you went over that because you lacked the control by $10, then next month don't spend any money until you get back on budget.
People tend to over-analyze things when it's that simple. Anyone going broke because they are playing a FTP game and not using adult common-sense is someone I wouldn't want to be roommates with or even married to.
If they can't handle a video game budget, how would you ever expect them to pay half their rent on time or a mortgage, lol?
I agree. Still enjoy it though... I never try to be the BEST!!! in a game.... Its a game, relaxation, and I am not in a world championship Counter Strike team which actually can make money, so I do not have an interest in being the BEEESSSSSTTT!!! in a game. Not in Tetris, not in Donkey Kong.. a little in Missile Command but not much, not in Ultima Online and not now in todays games. So for me... freebie games are a joy. I right now have.... 9 different MMOs on my desktop, playing them all (right now mostly CoX, after deleting my old characters("Last played: 4.206 days")). I toss in a few bucks in World of tanks every 3 months, maxed the inventory in Fallen Earth, bought "Hell-if-I-know-what" stuff to my LotRo a year back and so on and so forth. Still ten times better than paying a monthly fee for WoW, for that money being bombarded by gold sellers 24/7 selling shit I dont need, not get any response from any mod for any problem (and they sure love those gold sellers), then have to pay extra if I want to do anything but hold the hand and walk forward. The three step rocket (Game-subscription-lots of extra content that was developed at the same time as the original game, just shown a few months after) that is subscription MMOs should be gone by now, because the personal moderators popping up asking if you want to ask a question are gone, together witth the dev controlled special events and even the support, replaced by some poor indian with an ICQ.
Everything that you pay extra for... you now have to pay extra for. Not cool dude..... not cool
All Eve's shop offers right now is a few fluff items that have zero effect on the game. Even Wow's item shop has more effect on the game than Eve's. I don't understand all the Eve item shop whines when it is, without doubt. the most unobtrusive item shop in the genre. If you are going to use examples, at least use a relevant one.
Everyone has their own limitations on what they will spend. I do play f2p games ( well ones that i can stand like AOC, FE, EQ2, LOTRO etc) I've spent very little on them to be honest. Over the last year I've spent maybe 50 total on all of them for various cash shop things ( appearance items, mounts) and have had gifts from family members for game cards off and on. For me the cost hasn't mounted up as if I were to subscribe monthly. Certainly, when my financial situation changes I'll support the game of my choice by subbing or purchasing a little more but that's it. I really can't justify spending loads of cash on a game any longer.
Great article and a great balance to Dr Aihoshi's (I know he's not a doctor but it make him seem more sinister) perpetual F2P gospel. Well done mmorpg.com
I do not believe anyone who claims they never spent a dime in a f2p game. They are suspect the minute they say that and have probably spent way too much on it.
You can not spend money in a FTP game easily.
Usually it's people who want the "best" things that spend money depending on game type. In Dragon Nest I played the whole thing without spending one dime at all and had fun.
AoC I played on the PvP server and spent nothing.
EQ Extended I haven't spent one dime.
Vindictus I haven't spent any money.
You don't need to spend money in a FTP game to have fun. It makes things a LOT easier but you don't have to spend any if you don't want to.
You know just as well as anyone that the shop as it is now is just the beginning and will be expanded on. They've clearly stated this. Also there has been info leaked during the recent fiasco that they intend to sell much more than just Incarna related fluff items.
Custom ship skins, to give a hypothetical example, are also "just fluff" but the kind of fluff people will want spend tons on. Seeing how absurdly priced the monocle was, you can only be afraid of what the future might hold.
Anyway: selling content for rl cash in a game which you already pay a sub for is absurd in my opinion; all content should have an ingame source and provide gameplay in order to get your hands on it. Possibly related to professions / crafting / rare drops, etc.
I tend to shy away from F2P games for the most part as I view that anything which took revenue to develop does so in hopes for a profit.
Free to Play could just as well be called Nickle and Dime. It's those $5, $10, and $20 dollar one-off transactions that add up over the long haul.
Dragon Nest is one F2P game I have played and do like, and it's cash shop will bleed you dry quite fast if you let it.
I classify things of this type as stuff we asked for. Whenever we say "I'd buy this game, but I won't pay a monthly sub for it", we embolden game companies to foist this model on us.
Other MMORPG.com article to stir up this tired argument that we will never agree on ... is MMORPG that desperate for article ideas that alls they can do is stir up arguments with flame bait?
The most important thing to remember is that most people spend additional money on subscription bases games, too. Like the WoW example. So yeah, F2P is at the very least still cheaper for people without self control.
I did not spent a single dime on any cash shop, i did not even buy an additional char slot or storage chest pane in Guild Wars, heck, not even the bonus mission pack. I have even less trouble staying clear of the cash shop in some random F2P game i play for some days/weeks.
Yes, you get limited, and yes, it can be annoying if you like the game, like, i would have loved to play more DDO, but buying something from a cash shop etc. is no different then everything else: Do you want it enough to spent money on it? Is it really worth the cost? What if you do not like/use it anymore after just a day?
You decide all this before you buy a car, before you go to the cinema, even before you get yourself some ice cream. Do you want it enough to spent money on it?
Major advantage compared to subscription based games is, that you only pay for the cash shp, and that you can decide exaxtly how much you spent, and what for. Why pay $15 a month if all the do is introduce some new dungeons if you never raid? If the dungeons are sold in the cash shop, just don't buy it, unlock a new race or class instead or buy your char some nice costume.
To sum up it: F2P games *are* cheaper. If you compare the money you spent in the cash shop in a F2P game to the money you spent on stuff for a subscription based game (expansions, cash shop etc.), they are F2P. $200 here, $200 there, equals zero. So only looking at the subscription fee it's 12 x $0 vs 12 x $15.
The one and only exception i could see for a subscription fee to be warranted is when you do not have to pay for anything they ever do with the game, beyond that fee. Everything. Every expansion, every DLC, every mount, char slot ,race, you name it. If they increase the amount of content tenfold after the initial release, doesn't matter, it's already included. If you have to buy a single item, or pay for adding an emblem to your cloak or for a server transfer, whatever, it's no better then a F2P game with a cash shop.
Either you have a subscription and get the whole experience, or you can buy what you like and skip the rest. You could maybe introduce several subscription levels, like $5, $10 and $15 a month, with different amounts of free stuff, but as long as games feature the full subscription fee and got an extensive (and expensive) cash shop, complaining about F2P games not being free is just stupid.
Yeah, that's worst recent thing. P2P + CASH SHOP.
Biggest advantage of p2p subscription games, was that you could not buy things, that theoreticaly everyone was on equal terms and that you paid subscription and you KNEW that this was all you had to do (apart of expansions).
Nowadays when cash shop go into p2p games they are really start to look no diffrent than freemium games. Just that they don't offer unlimited free options.
Since I despise cash shops I run out of games to play quickly. This is even more dramatic when many of p2p games I don't want to play cause of gameplay itself. It will mean me going to stop playing mmorpg's or going to play on private servers which some of them do not have cash shops which I find preety ironic lol
Who would have thought - legitimate services don't want to offer micro-transaction / rmt free option, while some pirate / private servers does. Ridiculous.
I agree with article - I personally know many people who do spend sick amount of money, and most of them are not rich. Kinda I was sometimes worried a bit, that they might not save money (like f.e. for University for a child, for a house, etc) but blow it on microtransactions.
I WAS playing freemium games and I was in preety big guild + knew many people outside of guild and I don't knew anyone who did not bought anything in cash shop. Well I was not asking everyone but still :/
So in other words, you are a big time "F2P" fan, lol.
Personally, I think it's nice to have something to read that balances out all of the "F2P" propaganda articles that have been rather common on this site. Both camps should have some sort of representation.
"be roommates with or even married to"
Hehe...
It's funny how this is all new and exiting to "gamers". It's been going on since like forever in other aspects of life. At a common pub around here you'll spend 5-7€ on a disgusting beer in a plastic mug. Still, most accept this fee and buy 5-10 more during the evening while socializing with friends. That's 25-50€ for one nights entertainment. Spending 25€ on a game for one month's worth of entertainment is tabu! "Them companies are evil for luring my dumb ass in to spending 25€/month on useless crap for a game! Screw this, i'll go spend 30€/day in the pub". The genius part is how they managed to get the word "free" in there. A pub would have a hard time selling "Free to enter!" unless it's a premium pub/club that usually has an entry fee, and they're running a "Free to enter night"-campain, which would probably make them more money that night (same same, but different). It's good marketing, and we're buying it. Just as we're buying it everywhere else in the world.
Fact is, it's worth what you make of it. Spend 50€/month on your game, who cares if you enjoy it. If you can't really afford it but do it anyway, natural selection says "hi, and good luck". Blizzard made a small fortune on a mount-sale, good for them. The more cash hey have the better games they can make. The more money we pump in to the industry the better games we get overall. There are ups and downs, developers try different aproaches, some work and others dont. In the end, good products always emerge. I'd say feed them more money so we can have more/better games. It's an "organic" process shared amongst a good bunch of companies. It takes time, trial and error and money.
In the end, we are the one's buying their crap. And i'm sure it will pay off eventually.
Sure, microtransactions are a little sinister. But do you know what else is sinister? Charging someone $15 to play a game they bought for $50. Even worse, charging them $15 to pay for $3 of server maintenence and content updates that normal games do for free. With free-to-play, anything you pay for will always be there. With pay-to-play, they'll kick you off at the end of the month no matter how many hundreds of dollars you've pumped into their game. You're not getting your money's worth. In F2P on the other hand, you track exaclty how much you're playing for what features. Sure, you may spend $10 a month on a hat in a free-to-play game, but you get something absolute out of it: you look good. And I'd rather pay $10 a month to look good than pay $15 for a vague, needless and meaningless "subscription fee."
All that said, don't buy the sparkling pony. Buy actual content instead.
Don't worry, Blizz is going to let SWTOR in particular (and perhaps GW2) launch, let everyone get new game syndrome out of their systems and once they realize they're really still playing WOW all over again (esp with SWTOR) will release their next expansion and drag the faithful back into to the fold.
WOW isn't going anywhere folks
Its funny when i read articles like this. It seems common sense to the majority of gamers, but yet the FTP model or "nickel and dime" model is growing. Now im not saying the average american has a less-than-average intelligence, but it doesnt take a high school diploma to know that $15 a month is less than ($20 dollars mount + $5 XP potion), or even to the greatest of extremes ($5 upgrade hammer + $5 protection charm) * X number of tries = +Y Sword of Uberness. Yes i have known guildmates that have spent literally $250 dollars to get a +10 sword in a FTP game. Which of course will pwn in PVP.....until the level cap is increased.
I love to play FTP games, and happy to say i never spent a dime, but of course i never play one more than a month or two. Treat them like trials and quit once the game 'requires' you to use microtransactions. And of course to get my full gaming fix i have been loyally paying $15 a month for a sub to EQ2 since 2004. There i raid top end, to be the very BEST in game, and guess what....its all included!!!
Essentially the age-old problem of crafty salesmen and weak humans.
“Free to play with limited content and gear that will let you experience the game just enough to have fun, but not enough to actually start pwning faces”.
If folk were more content in themselves and wanted to pwn less and perhaps not be so obsessed with digital bling...
OP points out just why I don't like f2p. Free doesn't mean free; for most people it means pay more.
Also I hate salesmen and people trying to sell me stuff. F2P is like constantly being hit up for things, only they get you to do it to yourself. Screw that.
Rememember when they used to call it "MICRO"-transactions?
If one game I'm trying out is any example, it's not "micro" any longer. It looks like it's easily possible to put hundreds or even thousands of dollars into gear for a character.
How is that micro? I could buy a shiny computer and a years subscription for that kind of cash.
What I find amazing is that people actually do this. Some of it looks like it might be part of a get rich quick scheme where players wheel and deal (or scam) other players into buying gear for cash in side-deals.
Is the new trend "Play for Profit" ???
edit kant spel
My main problem with the f2p model is the inherent dishonesty in calling it free-to-play. It should be called: You-Get-What-You-Pay-For-To-Play.
I pay a monthly sub fee and I buy from the cash shop. I am one of those, Oh the horror!!!
I will agree, calling a game Free-to-Play is wrong. Free-to- Try is more accurate.
Good article. Gotta nit-pick a bit. The original mount offered on the Blizzard Pet Store wasn't faster than the other mounts (your mounted speed is dicated by your mount skill). It was just that it looked different than anything else in the game, so people spent 25 bucks a pop. I would be interested to see the profits on the second mount they released in that manner as well.
Blizzard has also made millions on the pets in their pet store, at 10 bucks a pop, as well as the stuffed gryphon/wyvern toy, that also comes with a pet code.
The next pet to be sold in the pet store will be tradeable in game though, which opens up a can of worms where I could spend $10 on a pet, and then in turn sell it for thousands of gold in game. Which basically allows for some type of gold purchasing through a "legitimate" system in WoW.
The Freemium and F2P models in general are bad business overall though. These companies (like Turbine) are increasing their profits, but also limit your ability to play the game without making purchases. In the end, it winds up being cheaper to just pay the price for a sub. While companies are allowed to attempt to make a profit, the way they are going about it is a bit shady.
However, as long as there are people who are willing to spend cash on virtual features/content/items, these systems will exist.
Umm .. considering I posted this same thing on a F2P "propaganda" article before this one kinda throws your ignorant quick to judge response out the window. Personally, I think this whole P2P vs F2P crap is stupid no matter which side of the argument is on cause most of the complaints people have towards each side are based on business practices from the publishers, not the model themselves. People are blaming the model instead of the publishers.
I hate to say it but this article is spot-on. Spending no more than a few months playing "F2P" games like DDO and LoTRO left me much poorer then when I first started and I really have no one but myself to blame. From unlocking new races/classes, new adventure/quest packs, even smaller features like removing the gold-cap or being able to ride a mount, these sorts of games are really only "free" if you're willing to play a severly mind-numbingly tedious version of a game that you'd otherwise enjoy for a monthly sub.
Over time I've come to loath the "F2P" model, I think the one game that really did it right was Guild Wars with their one-time base fee for the entire game without a monthly sub. If I only had to pay one straight up fee to enjoy all the content of games like DDO and LoTRO, I might have stuck with them more but the soul (and wallet) sucking setup that is "F2P" definitly loses its luster fast.
It's people with no self control, independantly wealthy or some desire to "pwn" the game that turn it into "macro" transactions.
Someone spending $200 or more a month on any game... FTP, P2P, B2P.. whatever.. is either wealthy or has no financial discipline, imo.
I just hope that F2P becomes known as a misnomer because these games are, in practic not free, they only give the illusion of being so but that is only true for a portion of the player base that does not care to get the full experience of the game.
The fact that, for most people, a subscription paid game is cheaper than most F2P games just proves this fact and shows how deceptive this whole F2P spectacle is. And not only that, it promotes the concept of Pay to Win.
great article
its oh so true that F2P is like a unlimited demo
yeah you can play for free but you can't
-access auction house or buy from 90% of all NPCs
-access 5/8 races
-access 8/10 classes
-access anything over tier 2 gear
-access VIP areas (which limits you to a farm with pigs and gold spammers)
-have more than 3 pennies in your account
-have more than 3 items in your bank
-have any kind of head gear
-use general chat
-you gain 10% normal xp
-can't go over lvl 5
basically all you can do is pick up a brank from the floor and wack your basic baby wolves and quirrels and awe at the awesome graphics
of course i am exagerating all that, but you guys get my point
You people just like to complain.
P2P...$50 box+$15 a month = $65
F2P...Throw that $65 in it when you start and you wont need to pay anymore for a while. In two months you would have to pay $30 towards your P2P, so in two months throw that in your F2P.
Spend $15 a month on your F2P and you'll have it made.
If you spend more than that on f2p games your mommy should take the cc away from you.
People that have played WOW for a year could have spent all of that money on a f2p and bought practicly everything they would ever need in a f2p and never have to pay again.
It just people with elitist attitudes that complain. They think they are the greatest gamers and cant handle it when someone else has something they dont have.
Ignorant? Hardly, bud. A quick dip in your post history reveals which side of the fence you sit on.
There is nothing "crap" about having a discussion about something that is essentially the biggest change this genre is currently experiencing. Many of us are not willing to play "F2P" games, especially after sinking our teeth into a few titles. If "F2P" becomes the norm, there are a lot of gamers that won't be playing mmorpgs at all anymore. So, you can hopefully understand why this is such a hot a relevant discussion.
Also, I think you're dead wrong about your last statement. It's the model itself that encourages greed and a neverending quest to continually squeeze the sponge. It's the kind of business practice that doesn't work well with Human nature and always winds up bringing out the worst in people.
It’s an old grifter rule: As long as you add the word “free” to something, people will literally pay anything to obtain it. Especially if they think they’re about to one-up another player.
This only applies to games. If I put junk out on the curb with a free sign on it, no one will ever touch it. But if I put a $10.00 sign on it, someone is bound to steal it the next day.
I bet if they put stuff in the cash shop with a "free" sign on it, no one would touch the junk......
Excellent work, MMORPG.com. :)
Coyote's Articles are the best, haha ;-)
A year of F2P LotRO has, for me, ended up being just like a regular sub game, only I don't have to sub 100% of the time. I think I subbed for 8 of the last 13 months, and other than buying the expansions, I have not spent a dime outside the sub price. The accumulated Turbine Points that I've obtained from sub time and from simply playing has allowed me to unlock every zone, every instance, and buy the occasional extra perk. Subbing once in a while also has the advantage that it unlocks all the bag and trait slots for all of your characters, and they stay unlocked.
This solution obviously doesn't work for subless games, but most of the new freemium games are still better than those that are designed to be F2P.
Excellent post.
You speak very well on behalf of the FTP market with a compelling case "FOR" FTP.
Best reasoned response I've seen in a long time.
I've thrown couches and dressers that were junk to me when I moved. People walking by snatched it up. I don't live in a super ghetto area so people will touch your junk (odd sentence to end on).
This is the same experience I had while I was playing, and still go back to LoTRO F2P whenever I feel the MMO urge creeping up-by far the cheapest MMO experience I've encountered.
All I really got from the article is if you want to PvP or look pretty you have to pay- I'll go ahead and keep my money while enjoying my time gaming.
Well it is all ok BUT there are things you can get ONLY in cash shop and I mean like advantage items. There are stat tomes, store-exclusive relics, store-only relic removal scrolls (mechanic taken out of game and put into store).
There are p2w things like: pvp skills for monster players previously you got them after you ranked which aquiring high ranks took months or more, now you spash some cash and you can get high ranked skills immedietaly even if you low rank. (talk about caring for all those people who worked for those ranks all this time before), stun0immunity scrolls, fear-immunity scrolls, vert powerful store-only pots,etc
There are also things like one very needed scroll needed used alot for core game mechanic (for Legendary Weapon) - only can get for enourmous grind (thousands of shards) or guess what from store. One weapon can use like 20+ of those scrolls.
+ many more and with every update store expand as well
So yea :/
I still remember Turbine saying that store won't offer advantage.
Yeah, but you don't need those things you're talking about.
If someone wanted to get them I guess they could. But for people like Athcear, he doesn't need them and as he said, he plays 8 out of 13 months so that's pretty good anyway it's sliced.
He made an excellent case for it is all I'm saying. Your case against it isn't as good because LOTRO isn't really a PvP game so it doesn't matter if someone buys an advantage item.
Most people don't care if someone does 100 more dps than them anyways.
if people would just stop playing f2p mmorpg's entirely we could chane the industry back o something we liked again.
but people just cant stay away if its "free".
do like me and just dont play f2p games, and if you do dont buy anything. i bought tf2 back in 2007 and still play it. but i never bought anything in their cash shop or any cash shop for that matter.
Don't agree with statement "it is PVE so it is ok". No it is not. To me anyway.
Second thing. There is pvp (well pvpm) in Lotro, and there is direct advantage sold in cash shop.
As for necessity. Sure, if you state case this way, propably 99% of items in almsot all f2p games you do not need
Need or want or how much you think something is advantage or nto advantage or how something is needed or not, etc actually this is subjective matter from what I found.
I do see your point of course, but well I am just against selling any in-game item / thing for $, so whole concept of cash shop is what bother me and what I am against..
Overall a good article. But of course this is MMORPG.com so I feel the need to flame the article somehow. All I can come up with is if you are going to use WoW as an example get it right. I dont know about now but when the money grab horse was first offered it did not even give you a speed advantage. Whatever level of flying you had is the speed it could go. GET IT RIGHT lol.
Ok now that the obligatory correction/flame is out of the way the OP is 100% correct. I was one of the many that found a "f2p" game I really liked. After a month I did my finances like I always do and realized....holy shit I had spent $75 on the game in a month! Thats a months sub to a p2p game + 5 more indie titles I may have been interested in! I felt pretty stupid needless to say.
Now as far as WoW goes with there fluff shop I cancled my account the day it went live. I will stop playing MMO's before I play a p2p game that has a cash shop as well.
I am all for games that that only have cosmetic items in there cash shop. Guild Wars for example. Sure you can buy skill packs, character slots, extra storage, and costumes. However everything except for the costumes are available ingame. I think GW1 offers one campain pack in there cash shop. Also there armor doesnt look horrible so you arent looking to buy a costume just so you dont look like an assclown while playing. If thats the way GW2 is going to be then I'm 100% fine with it. Oh GW1 does offer an extra character slot. However you do get 6 or 8 slots for owning all 3 standalones + the expansion. So its not like they gave you all the classes but only 1 or 2 character slots. In another words while they have a cash shop there really isnt a need for it unless you really want something extra. To me the same would go for any f2p that only has cosmetic items in there cash shop. Maybe even if they add something like a crafting item for enhanced chance not to fail. So long as the base fail rate isnt something insane like it is in hellgate global. You dont NEED the item but after +3 or something like that your chance drops significantly. I mean its like a 5% chance not to fail for the last enhancment. thats just BS.
Honestly, do you really need to spend that much on free 2 play games? Its a question about self control my friend, and you don't have none. Yes they feed into your addiction, but its your choice to fall for it.
Lots of f2p games, are very playable, without any money invested. And the one's that are pay 2 win, do we even call these video games? NO! if you still want to play these games, You lost all reailty of what video games really are.
F2P move is great, It gives us the chance to test the game before spending 50 bucks, on retail. Then 20 bucks a month.
If you spend say 15 a month on a free to play game, thats on par with normal sub, and your contributing to the dev's rather than being a leech. And its only 15 a month. Compared to some of these people spending 100-10k on a video game.
You don't need to pay all this extra money to play premium content in most f2p games. its like extra 20 bucks a month. what are you spending your money on? Pay2Win? Fluff? How can you place blame elsewhere, when the blame lies within.
Nobody forces you to buy fluff, or items that give you advantage, because you can't compete normally.
You want to brag to your friends? Be the best, all it takes, they will evnoy you for that. End Of Story.
Honestly all these people that spend money on games, to get ahead of others, are only cheating themselfs.
You spent 100 more dollers on your vitual heros, then i did. Does that make your heros better then mine, maybe. Does that make you better then me? Hell No! Its ok, we all can't all be good at videos games, some of us need to spend a little cash on games, to make up for their lack of skill.
Key Word
Self Control.
if people would just stop playing f2p mmorpg's entirely we could chane the industry back o something we liked again.
but people just cant stay away if its "free".
do like me and just dont play f2p games, and if you do dont buy anything. i bought tf2 back in 2007 and still play it. but i never bought anything in their cash shop or any cash shop for that matter.
The master of the free to play game makers do not technically create MMORPGs. The psychology is the same, IMO. Of course you know what have in mind... the great evil empire of...ZYNGA. Give the people nothing and tell them it's free, and wait for the money to roll in.
The truth is that all game makers will do whatever they can to improve their bottom line. They exist to make a profit, not to create an aesthetic masterpiece or a meaningful experience. Hence, the overwhelming temptation to try to suck nickels and dimes by whatever means possible. The original device was the treadmill (aka EQ1), but of course games will evolve, and any method will be tried, there is no game maker moral compass, for heaven's sake.
I suppose in some ideal world the proper economic format would be to give people choices. Either get everything for a flat fee or pay as you go. But cash shop creep is a unversal truth, I am afraid. Sigh.
The only way to win is (ala War Games the movie)...NOT to PLAY. Like alcholics, though, only a few will have the wll power.
At least I can say I am now playing Vanguard...no cash shop..yet. And I played GW1 for a while...if it had a cash shop, I never realized it, so same thing.
Good luck and good night.
I have to disagree with the article.
Of course it there are plenty of F2P titles that do require you to spend money (sometimes a lot) to achieve something, but the key point here is that, no one forced you to play those in the first place. Unlike P2Ps, you didn't have to buy the Box nor pay any monthly fee. You can join a game or leave it without ever spending a buck, you're not tied by a box price or monthly fee, because it's FREE.
But again, there are many F2P titles that do offers items that, even as a F2P-supporter, completely despise and loathe. But here's the thing, whenever I try a new F2P title, one of the very first thing I look at is the Cash Shop. If I disagree with the content of the Cash Shop, I'll just forget about the game and look elsewere, it's as simple as that. However, if I do agree with the content of the Cash Shop and am enjoying the game, I certainly don't mind spending a few bucks for fluffs and whatnot...because I'm a responsible adult. Seriously, I read some folks here on MMORPG.com posting against F2Ps, saying how they suck out all your money and I'm here wondering "Just how much money did you spend on a F2P to reach that point? 1k? 5k? 10k?" Let's be honest here for a minute, if you have trouble and just keep spending money without really looking at the numbers the game's not the problem, it's you and if it weren't for games you'd probably be burning that cash elsewere on more useless "crap" for lack of a better word. "Don't hate the game, hate the player" as they say.
I've been playing MMORPGs for a very long time (since UO) and also played F2Ps since MapleStory entered Closed Beta (around 2003-2004) in North America. Since 2003-4, I've spent less than $200 on F2Ps. If I had been playing strictly P2Ps since 2003-2004... Hell, let's say only a single P2P title without the expansions from 2003 to 2011, I'd have spent $1,500, and again, that's without any expansions or swapping P2P title every now and then, without even really knowing wether I enjoy the game or not (because the part you get to experience in the trial is always nice and dandy but when you get beyond the trial stage, things tends to change).
Are F2P companies going to try to "nickel and dime" you? Oh, definitively. It's a business, they have to keep things running somehow. But if you don't agree with the way one F2P is run, don't play it and look elsewere. You didn't have to spend any money upfront, didn't have to spend anything at all so the feeling of entitlement should not even exist considering that you'd be playing for free. It could be referred to as "Voting with your wallet". No one's holding a gun to your head and forcing you to spend on something you clearly don't like.
And before this turns into a "companies are dumbing down MMOs" ; buy their "shit" and they'll make more "shit". Game Developers aren't dumbing down the genre, they are simply answering demands. Want more WoW? Here's another WoW.
You don't need to spend money in a FtP game to have fun. Others clearly do.
There is that "extreme minority" he refers to in the article....
If you can play, experience and enjoy the entire game without ever feeling you have to do without, or pace yourself, or wait longer than you'd prefer to to obtain or achieve something, or make progress at a pace that's comfortable for you without having to 'settle' for the progress you make at the truly "free" level ... Then you're doing great.
Many, many, many more people can't... and that's exactly what the developers depend on, and that's exactly why it's stated, time and again, that F2P MMOs make more money than Subscription-based ones do, despite being free.
It's *not* due to people like yourself playing the game without paying anything and enjoying it. You're not the Developer's target market. The purpose someone like yourself serves is to help the game seem more populated, making it more appealing to folks who want to play a popular game.
That's not an insult or derogatory statement, by the way lol. Just an observation.
-double post-
No one is forcing you to buy anything in a cash shop. Ever. I have NEVER bought anything from a F2P cash shop. I probably never will. Its usually just worthless crap anyways.
But Id be more apt to buy from a cash shop than paying 15 bucks a month. At least when you're buying some stupid hat you're actually buying something with your money. With sub fees you arent buying anything. At all. Nothing. You're just giving the developer money for nothing. You've already bought the game after all.
Not to mention most P2P games have a cash shop on top of a subscription. Why rag on F2P when its really the cash shops that are the problem in the first place? The article is a little misdirected.
Remember the days of pay by the hour for AOL NWN and TSN TSOY? That could really be expensive!
Its pretty easy not to spend money in F2P titles you just need to pick 7 choose the right ones.
Some are happy to such the money out of your wallet at a massive rate of knotts though.
The right side of the F2P vs Freemium vs P2P argument depends on the game and the playstyle of the gamer. I have NEVER spent more money on a F2P or Freemium game (Lotor, CoX, DDO, WoT) as I have on P2P games (Eve Online, Cox early on, Conan early on, and STO). As a casual gamer who knows how to follow a budget, I have avoided spending tons of money in the cash shops. I don't like the idea of spending $200 on a game ($50 box plus $150 for a year of sub), then no longer having access to my characters. Some games I might only play 2 hours in a month. I don't think that's worth $15. If I play a F2P or Freemium game, my account will be there as long as the game lasts for me to revisit as much or as little as I choose. If I find myself really getting into a game and playing a lot, Freemium games offer a $15 monthly sub. It's the best of both worlds. By the way, having a sub does not guarantee there wont be jerks in a game (here's looking at you, WoW). I also don't think it's possible to pay-to-win in a PvE environment, which is what I usually play.
Age old argument and STILL they get it wrong, sigh....tisk tisk, it's called SELF CONTROL. if you want to spend say $2000 on a game then by all means go ahead but DON'T BLAME THE GAME MODEL because you can't control yourself. It's that simple. I've played F2P games and the only one i ever spent any real money on was LOTRO and that was for frivolous items. The items he talks about that give boosts to xp deeds etc i got all those free, not only from the beginners items they give for free on such games and used them at the right times in the game to get what i needed to move on. Finally, i also made about 2k in game points on LOTRO from running a few toons at a time the store points are universal and i could spend them on anything. THUS every theory he's posted on this model in general is WRONG. maybe people like this should actually TRY the games and see what they are like before posting crap.
Have to say that I definitely got a chuckle out of it. For some odd reason, I thought of a twisted episode of Leverage with a nerdy looking dude sitting in the bar and telling Nathan his story about a F2P game that shafted him...wondering if there was anything they could do to help.
The rich and powerful, they take what they want. We steal it back for you. Sometimes bad guys make the best good guys. We provide... "leverage".
Ummm, small factual error in the article: the glittery pony in WoW was never any faster. It is the exact same speed as other mounts. The only reason most people got it was because it counts toward the mount collection achievements, and so the packrat instinct took over.
It was more than just the collection. It was a cost savings on having to buy mounts...the more alts you had, the more value you got out of the sparkly pony.
(mod edited)
Find a game you want to play. GO TO FORUMS or ITEM STORE link. If Forums, look for Item store link. Look at the items. IF there are game breaking items. DONT PLAY! (Like oer power weapons, in a PvP game). You save money!
Another feature for money is equipment enhancement. Most games require "INSURED ENHANCEMENT" on armour {Upgrading past +8 usually}. This can be just for pvp, leaving the PVE world all for you to enjoy for FREE... or, it is both for end game PVP and DUngeons. If it is for dungeons, you get locked out of end raids, that is all... other wise all is free!!! The lore, the PvE, etc... Now, carefull because some games limit the PVE to your cash items, or make it really expensive to PvE, like EXP debt prevention... Resurection scrolls, etc...
You just have to do a little reading to find the right game for you. Also, publishers... Know your publisher. For example, PWE is the worst publisher and forces you to buy or die.
ALL AAA titles are the sucl. DDO, LoTRO, etc.. They were making cash, and knew how to make more cash by going F2P. They are the worst models. I see idiots here saying "Oh, well yuo going to pay no matter what you play, so just join a AAA title/publisher". YEAH NO! I have played and am playing AMAZING fun games for no money. In these AAA they make you buy the PVE content! LOL! I never pay for land. F that.
You think paying is vital to stay alive in the market. It is not. Look at fcebook. FREE guys a millionare. Prove that more, Look at wow. It made more money in 3 years that it paid for its project x10 times over. So much so they buil excessive offices, get aways, events, etc... They could have reinvested money in the game to make it epic, but they didnt. Now their horrible content is the death of them. It is not expensive to run this stuff. Every cash transaction is extra, as most F2P publishers already paid their debts. WoW made so much money that it can afford to give DIablo 3 away for free to its wow players. They boast 5 million players... 5 million x $50 retail box (average price for new games) = TRUCK LOAD OF MONEY that they can burn becuase the price is over stated.
Again, I broke away from the pay, and am enjoying my free to play community! Cya in game!
Perhaps it is possible not to spend a bloody dime on f2p but they sure make it tough as hell not to. I mean I personally would never grind or otherwise curtail my enjoyment just to stick it to them and not spend any money . I would pay to get some things and that sticks in my craw you know. I know I am not paying anything initially so why not spend a bit but I think it is the damn stupid principle of the thing. You keep wanting to not pay anything because it is f2p and end up resenting it when you do. I know silly reasoning makes no sense at all but I play DDO and I took a sub,there was no way I was going to twist myself up over unlocking the packs with points. Then I go buy points to get some tomes....yes even stupider a f2p I pay a sub for then buy points. WTG!
This is so true, and I only wish more people would wake up to it, I have found myself in the same situation and itsa the reason I no longer play world of tanks, the lure is simply to great for those of us with competative natures, being beat is fine being beat by some one you should own on a skill playing field because he paid for some uber gold sword is NOT COOL at all.
Free to play I beleive is a crime and I actually think that it will not be long until some guy with more money than he needs ends up sueing the pants off of a game company for luring their kid into blowing cash that wasnt theirs to blow. there has already been motions in this direction over at apple as I recall some child blew thousands of pounds on items in a game and their parents went mental.
Kids, Teens, Adults, were all in the same boat, in a financially screwed economey a subscription game is crazy as this might sound is a much safer bet, and well worth the money as opposed to free to play which as the OP Author rightly puts, is NOT free to play.
We agree. :)
So I stopped reading here since this is what I was saying.
This article is AWESOMENESS!!!!!! I love it i looooove it!!!!
Im quiting Dragon Nest for the same reason, is just like this so far the worst free to play cough cough pay to win i have found, so beautiful so charming (hey wake up) dont let it fool you. Not only that they keep implementing items with free stats (cash shop) but sometimes when you charge money , theres a little problem with the transaction and you have to wait more than a month to get credited, just because is free to play the customer service sucks.
You forgot that point CUSTOMER SERVICE on free to play sucks just because they do not treat you as a Customer is like they had no respect for us, maybe they do see us like a addicted sick person? who knows, thats why im done with free to play games, waiting for Guild Wars 2.
On free to play games theres no respect from the company and theres no respect between players, but is the company itself who starts the disrespect athmosphere. With lies, when you feel cheated, when they mislead with their false information etc.
What giant number of "pro" articles? There's one column, where the subject is f2p by default, and it gets trashed by all the haters on this board pretty much every time. Saying both camps should have representation on this page is like saying Fox News should show things from the Republicans' view once in a while.
And while I usually like Coyote's articles (one of the very few ones left on this site) this one is the same hollow argument the f2p-haters have been making since the whole thing started. In fact it's actually worse, since he's not complaining about grindy and poor gameplay (which a lot have without a doubt), but implying that people have no choice but paying and can't keep track if they pay more than 15 bucks a month. Sorry, but if they are indeed that dense you should probably keep them from any form of money transaction as they clearly aren't suited to run any form of economy. While I know his articles are meant to overstate things he sadly picked the most ridiculous of the arguments against f2p to make his point, which ultimately makes this article fail in my eyes. Besides several p2p games I've also played a number of f2p games and when they start feeling too grindy or boring I simply switch to the next, as they are *gasp* free to get. Now how is that more expensive than switching p2p games every x months?
I went head first in to the F2P gaming market with the lust of fullfilling all my gaming needs for years to come while spending as little as possible. That dream was shattered quickly.
F2P is expensive and shallow compared to AAA sub titles. So I thought to myself, well I can taper down my expectations of the F2P offerings and just embrace them for what they were! I have not played a F2P in over a year. I just gave up trying to find any substance to the game without spending more than I would with a subscription.
This article sums up my exact experience after years of trying to adopt the new gaming model that is "sweeping the world".
Summary: F2P is not a new gaming model. It is a new marketing model.
How is it evil to bank on others' stupidity? If you can't control yourself enough to find a good F2P game to play and either play for free, or treat it more like a B2P game (where you may buy an expansion or just spend $30-$60 dollars a year on goodies), then I feel sorry for your lack of self control. How is a company evil if they charge you for something you don't really need and you go and buy it? I guess that means that EVERY company that sells things people don't NEED (anything other than food, clothing, and shelter) is evil or at least using evil tactics.
I pity you for not being able to control yourself and manage your spending habits better, but that is YOUR fault. Not the companies who are trying to sell a product. On top of all that, if you want to play a sub based game so you can have all your "cool" gear, there are plenty of games out there that still at least use that as an option.
How smart is it to expect companies to be able to forever host games while offering them completely free?
No one is asking them to, all we want them to do is stop selling items that give players an unfair advantage over the rest of their gamimg world, so no selling gold tipped shells, or armour of the gods, or sword of the amazing "i paid for it" Doom!, work out some other way of doing it.
Sell costetics, sell xp boosts, sell name changes, sell server changes, sell costume dye's , sell pets , there is a million different things they can monetize that will not make the game pay to win.
A good and Bad example all in one..
Spiral Knights, each day you earn 100 Energy free, this is then consumed as you play through the games levels, this is good, you earn 100 a day but if you want to keep playing you need to buy some more, the bad side its got is that some items cant be crafted without paying, and a few other little things that you cant do unless you pay which is bad.
They have the right idea with the energy but blew it with the items.
I totally agree with you on that one. Too bad the guy who wrote the article doesn't. He is talking about anything in the cash shop being too much of a temptation not to buy and that's why he's broke. So even if the stuff in the cash shop was NOT pay to win stuff, it's still too much for Coyote.
I also say that if you think that cash shops have pay to win type things in them, then don't play that game.
My biggest point is that people like Coyote need to stop complaining about cash shops in F2P games. No one is holding a gun to their heads and telling them to buy anything. Show a little self control and you won't have to worry about the "evil" companies.
too bad people like you also never understand, don't give the real valor for his money, or his parents money most of the case, but we old school get tired of this kind of games who are boring money grabs, and only reason for this kind of scam happes are because we have people who feel for it, everything he write on that article happens, like dev to another dev. "
hey I need to change my BMW for a newer model, and don't want to wait, so what we can do to get this money soon? thinking and he they come with the idea, I know let's take this mount, put a new skin, raise the move speed a little and ask for 25 for this limited who no one else will have, cost to make it all one day of work.
fool's server, weee new mount and no one else will have on my server I will pay 25 just to stand out and look leet, he pays, long in the server, with his new mount then when he looks everyone have the same new mount.......
yeah monetizing things who should be in game for free to anyone who plays it, is really smart..... maybe we should also pay per minute for internet again, because really, all the business are so hurting, I really feel sorry the suits on then who only get 1M a year, they sure don't earn enough to live, also we should toss internet neutrality out the window and monetize it all too, so I want to have extra speed to play my games and look on my e-mail on hotmail, so I pay my 50 standard, plus 50 so I can have speed for both of then, so I just hope I never will need to download a work or I make another e-mail, hell let's make it by game, so I have to pay extra 12 bucks to each game I play online and want to have max speed possible. oh and I just hope no one else pay even more then me so they can have preference over me.
really guys, if you are a fool and want to give your money to suits fine by me, send the damn check via mail to him, but please don't spoil even more the gamming genre even more.
Article is srs journalism written by a srs journalist yo!
Actually you're wrong in your assessment.
According to just about every study done, it's ADULTS who are spending the most money in games with cash shops because.. surprise!... they have the most disposable income to spend.
That's the other part of the argument people against FTP games don't grasp: ANY money you spend in a game's cash shop should automatically be termed as DISPOSABLE because you don't care if it's gone; reason being it's slotted for just that purpose... entertainment.
So if you find yourself "Going Broke on F2P".. that's your fault (or someone else's) for spending NON-disposable income on a game.
I'm not for cashshops per se, but I at least understand that if I was going to use one, I'd be using money that was slotted for that purpose and not the rent money or my kid's college tuition.
If you go broke in a FTP game spending your money in a cash shop trying to "compete", you've only got yourself to blame, not the industry or that company.
So true. I started noticing that it would've cost me roughly $40/month to buy each new champion in League of Legends since champions comes out twice a month. That's more than I would've paid for a monthly subscription fee.
But what matters to me is the availability of the game. In a sub-based game, if I don't pay my "bill" (yes it's a bill), they cut me off like the utility company. In a free-to-play, you are not obligated to pay every month.
Yes I agree that it would be hard to keep track how much we spend in a micro-transactions but the problem is not the game, but our spending habit.
I wouldn't say broke but playing multiple P2P games is definitely not cheap....hahaha especially if you have to pay to keep extra characters. D:
Article was way cool, this had me laughing my ass off.
I have been playing AOC since it went FTP & so far I have spent a Massive $0 dollars I also played EQx for a few Month & again spent $0 dollars , I love FTP game because My play style suits them
I play for the journey, I don't play for endagme or to look cool , so when Rift goes FTP & it will I will again go & enjoy the journey for a few characters before moving on to my next FTP game .,
Agreed, but it aint so new... EQ2 has been running the quad dip model (box, sub, expac, cash shop) for a while now.
and still it's players defend it to death :/
more likely you can't track not because you spending habits, you guys forget the game IS made in such way you need to pay for something some are more upfront of it others hide better, but in the end the CS will be there not to help you but to try to make it a vice, like drug user after the 1st fix, you will have to pay, or you really think when the people running this F2P games gives things like one day 2xp item or some cash to spend(normally enough just to buy pots and maybe a lesser item to helpenchant gear, aka or you use it or you gear break)
I don't think this makes sense. The P2P and F2P models are seperate clients and the cash shops, though both have them, are for vanity items (X server does have crafting materials and regents but nothing you can't get from playing). Also, once you buy an xpac all previous ones are included.
Am I missing something?
Edit: Arrows, not regents
You're overthinking this WAY too much. Here, lemme help:
Someone's wallet before they paid their rent, car note, food bill, child support, clothes, etc:
They're only supposed to spend THIS much on gaming after they take out for their bills:
Players see this:
..and moronically spend THIS much:
Then they're all like:
Not the game's fault someone is a moron and doesn't budget.
Question... is the game designed to make this more likely? Has it been designed in a way to take advantage of this situation?
Think of a con artist... they con people. The con artist gets arrested... is what you provided a probable defense for said con artist?
They are con games. They are scams.
Some people will not be conned. Some people will not be scammed.
Does that change that it is a con or a scam?
Based on what you said there at the end - odds are you'd never be on a jury in any criminal case involving any sort of scam.
It's not Madoff's fault that all those people were morons...am I right? /sigh
FTP=The work of the devil. Give me a sub only based game anyday.
They lied...all corporations lie...it's in their nature...
What about a B2P game with DLC... where the premium for the online aspect was built into the prices for the original box, the DLC, and any expansions? That way, you would not pay for what you did not do. Or perhaps a tiered subscription model with varying access?
The common example I use for the latter is the following:
Thomas does raiding.
Richard does PvP.
Harold does raiding and PvP.
All three are paying the same $15ish a month sub. They're obviously not all accessing the same content.
Thomas plays on the weekends only.
Richard plays an hour a day or so.
Harold plays the game like a full time job.
All three are paying the same $15ish a month sub. They're obviously not all playing the same amount of time.
Part of the reason that we ended up with the $15ish a month sub is because of it - people that do not access all the content or who do not play as much as others...well, they're supplementing the costs to the company for the players that do...
...imagine going into a restaurant where everybody paid the same amount regardless of what they ordered off the menu. The guy ordering the grilled cheese is paying the same as the guy ordering the lobster.
I'd much rather have B2P w/DLC or tiered P2P w/DLC.
dont play f2p cash shop games ... the whole concept is made to feed on the rich people who dont care about money and force the players who cant actually affort it to pay tons of money to compete. sadly its working too well, why else would there be tons of those games out there.
That's SOE for ya. You get to buy the game, pay a subscription, then you have to buy to win in the cash shop...Greed much?
On F2P games I just limit myself to $15 a month anyways, so it's like paying a subscription.
You have to either really watch your spending or not spend at all on F2P games. Bait and switch, you see it all over the place. In the end you can suffer for free or pay to win...
Absolutely!
The game is designed to get as much money out of people as it can. That's the whole point of running a business. It's not a con, scam or a hustle.
See, in a con you get nothing. Or you don't get what you PAID for. Note: paid.
The person who sees the cash shop looks at items for sale. That person picks and chooses which items they want to purchase. They make the selection and process the transaction. The person goes in-game to collect said purchases. Person then uses items.
A con would be the person did all that above, but did not receive the item they paid for. Or the item does not do what it is advertised to do.
For instance: You buy a pot that claims it will double your exp rate by 50% for one hour. You use the pot and it doubles your exp by 25% for 30 minutes. You tell the company and they say "so what? too late." That is a con.
Your Madoff story isn't the same, sorry.
Madoff was just an example of a scheme.
Would you prefer the used car dealership? They advertise a car that is not in stock to get the person to come to the dealership and then they sell them another one? Heck, that's not even just a used car dealership - that is pretty much any brick & mortar electronics store...lol.
It is a predatory business model. Companies do not go with a "F2P" model to make less money or switch to one to make the same money. They do so to make more money.
The way the game is designed or redesigned - increases the "need" to make such purchases. Leveling time is increased...basically all grinds are increased. Knowing that the playerbase is what they are...designing as such - is what makes it a scam.
There are so many different examples of various "business models" that are scams out there... F2P games are the same. Even from the start - with how loosely defined the term "play" is in the F2P model. If one is very literal, then many of the games could actually be considered free to play. Being able to login, create a character, and stand there doing nothing...could be considered "playing"...
I've never spent a dime in any F2p beleive me or don't no skin off my back, I know for a fact i haven't though...
Good article, thanks for keepin it real.
I think many people who responded to this article missed one very important point. Since the advent of FTP plans and cash shops in both FTP and P2P games, many game companies are shifting their focus from bringing us FUN games to play, to trying their damndest to make all of us sad identical tw@ts in over priced yet at the same time worthless party hats.
I'm not sure what the rest of you expect from an MMO, but I for one expect them to be more than just an online digital version of Blue Banana or Hot Topic.
Oh and Coyote, "Jamalick cil jahash", signed, the people of Chad.
This is the first article I've really enjoyed on this site. Maybe the second.
Excellent job and /agree 100%.
Screw FTP crap.
You can always walk out of the dealership and never come back. I have done it many times. Same goes with any type of business.
The F2P is no different than a Casino IMHO. Each slot machine is designed to hook a gambler and have them end up with nothing in the end.
The point we're making is, those who has the decipline in their spending habit and has a responsible mind set will not find themselves victimized by the f2p business model.
Sure the businesses are evil and they prey on the weak, that's the root of Capitalism, but we all benefit from that evil also, whether we admit it or not.
Well, people than can't handle the game legit, have to 'Pay to Win', I know of so many players that biatch about someone that has money to waste getting all the special gear, annialating everything with his 'pay gear' then hooting that he is 'The King' because he could afford the Cash Shop. Gotta love it :)
Yerp, f2p item malls are a direct result of the devil's influence. And he is laughing at us all. No question there. Pay to win or constantly pay for the next three feet of gaming area is the worst of it.
A car dealer wouldn't be the same either. Nor any other example where someone is paying money. The example you gave is of a bait and switch which a FTP game is not. They don't promise you anything except the opportunity to play the game 100R% free, which you do.
If you get to the dealer and don't like the switch, you can walk away and you haven't spent one dime. Same with a FTP game; if you find it's not progressing like you want you can walk away without spending one dime.
A FTP game is free, regardless of how far you can get in it. Most of those games make no promises to anyone; they just say "Free to Play" which it is.
Any expectation of a player that they can play from Level 1 to maximum level in any FTP game unless expressly stated is of their own making.
If a player finds they are progressing way too slow, then the game offers aids which would normally be free in other games to progress, but they aren't really "free" since they are paying $15/month. So the person just reaches endgame in a FTP faster by buying aids, but they aren't necessary.
I remember reading a post about someone talking about Rift on their officials, and they said "this game is too easy.. there's not enough challenge." After a few rounds of getting fanboized, one fan said "Well, if the game is too easy, try playing it with one dagger or with no armor and there's your challenge". He was being sarcastic but he did have a point which could be well heeded in a FTP game.
If you find your progress is too slow, that people who buy pots simply level faster than you, or that mobs are harder to kill unless you have that Mastercrafted Purple, or you are having a tough time beating obviously less skilled players than you in Pvp because they bought their gear... consider that your challenge.
Rate yourself on how good a player you are that you can go from Level 1 to max without ever spending one dime when lesser mortals have to spend their tuition.
The gf plays a F2P game. She just started a new quest they introduced. The quest is supposed to take five days. Three days into the quest, she discovers that the quest cannot be completed without spending real money. It simply cannot be done. There was no mention of this when the quest was introduced. So she is faced with the issue of having wasted three days on this particular quest...or spending money so she can complete it.
What's the game's name?
Was she having fun for three days? If so, then she didn't waste her time.
If the fun she was having was good, then perhaps it's worth paying a little to unlock whatever she couldn't do. I'll give you an example:
My daughter wanted to play Wizard 101 so I d/l it and let her go at it. She was playing for about a two weeks and then came to me and said "Dad, the game is stuck. I can't get into this one place."
So I went and looked and it was an area that said "You need 750 crowns (or whatever it was) to open this area." So I looked at my daughter's inventory and it said 75 crowns. I looked on the net and found out crowns can only be bought or in a rare case earned by some promo.
I did not see a promo so I looked at how much they cost. The price wasn't too bad but I really didn't feel like sitting down and loading up a CC so I told my daughter "Hmm.. they say I have to pay for this but it costs too much money." She said 'Awwwwww" and I said "hey, you want to play a different game? Dragon Nest?
When I showed her she said "WOW! Yes I want to play that!" So I put her onto that and since I played it, I know she could get into EVERY dungeon and if she ever got far enough could finish ALL the questlines for the story. She has forgotten there ever was a game called Wizard 101 needless to say.
Moral of the story: My 9 year old forgot immediately about Wizard 101 and moved on. I suggest you show your wife Dragon Nest and maybe she'll get some of that innocence that adults seem to forget when we play games... that it's all about fun and when to move on.
The gf's been playing this game for well over a year. Only recently she cut back from four accounts to two accounts. We almost got into an argument once when she was buying in-game currency from them to be able to speed up something for another quest earlier in the year...but I did not push it. Lol, I remembered the arguments I had gotten into with the ex-wife when she used to buy gold for WoW.
Which...I think is kind of an interesting thing... a curious question.
How many people have railed against those that pay the various gold farmers in games...are fine when it is the company that is the gold farmer?
Good question Virus. Does make you think. A recent thing happened in Rift that might shed some light.
Before launch, Scott H was pretty clear how he felt about bots and cash shops. They (Trion) pretty much said they are against that type of thing; micros and all. Most of Rift fans came from WoW (or so Trion says) so they know full well what a Sparkle Pony is and what a fluff cashshop brings. Most said they don't like that and don't want it.
So fast forward to this month and Trion makes the Spider mount available for a mere $10. There was a little outrage from a few posters who said "I quit" but surprisingly, the majority said "what's the big deal? it's just a mount" and actually applauded Trion for making the sale available to everyone (was a Canadian CE at first). Clearly it was something that they didn't like earlier but because it was THEIR game, now it wasn't so bad. Or they said "Well, at least Rift only sells it for $10. WoW sells it for $60, so it's different."
It's called situational ethics.
The same thing happens to games that that have gold farmers. People hate the farmers and want them gone but if the game does it and they like the game, they rationalize it and say "at least the game is getting the money and putting it to good use, unlike those moneygrubbing farmers".
People do it all the time for anything they love, not just games.
Heh, I mentioned the Ashes box in another thread discussing RIFT (and it did not go well for my rating here on the forums). I did not address it from spider mount though, I did it from the banker and what that would mean for gatherers/crafters. For $10...ayup. Hrmmm, might have also discussed this in a few of the CE threads out there - since CE simply does not mean what it once did. I've argued recently with folks that TOR's CE is a P2W Cash Shop because it sells an advantage...minor one, no doubt - but an advantage all the same (and no, it's not the CE store nor VIP area).
Yes, it is very situational... even I find myself burdened by this to an extent. There is probably little doubt at this point that I despise the F2P model. I lean toward the B2P + DLC or the P2P model (and have even started a thread discussing whether P2P should be SUB w/o paid expansions or SUB w/ paid expansions)...
The example I gave about the gf, she's been playing some Farmville clone for over a year and this was the first quest where that had happened to her. It got me thinking though - she's been playing for a long time. If I look at a game like CoH:Freedom, I used to play CoX off and on since the beta for the original CoH - I have over three years of Vet rewards. I installed the game for her, and wow - it is a world of difference, lol. So it is possible that people new to her game have encountered the issue before even though she has not.
I've played several FTPs of all kinds: converted from P2P, FTP at launch, Asian FTPs, Western FTPs, B2Ps like GW1.. I've only found I've like less than 10% of those probably, if that.
Most are poorly put together and heavily rely on a cash shop (Perfect World's stuff) and others are put together well but restrict far too much as far as what you can do, but I don't think I have never spent more than $10 in any of them and not more than $50 for all of them collectively.
Usually if I find the game has a barrier I just stop playing it. It doesn't seem worth it because for the almost the same price I can a full-service game which is usually a better deal. I may not last longer than one year in a sub game but it's usually a better overall value as far as fun for me than a FTP.
The new generation of coming FTPs may change my mind with games like Firefall, Planetside2, and whatever else is coming. Those games are built almost as AAA mmos giving you access to most or all the content, but without the monthly fee. Where you suffer is some items my be P2Win in a PvP setting but depending on the type of game it might not matter that much.
A game like Planetside2 based on massive battles you probably wouldn't notice someone doing less damage in a zerg. A FTP would have just as much chance to deliver the final killing blow as a P2P person so doesn't matter. In a PvE game it usually doesn't matter either like in games such as Dragon Nest; I saw all the content there was to see just not at the highest difficulty levels all the time.
Overall I'm not a fan of FTP but I respect their right to do business and I don't like the "victim" attitude adults take as if they were some unknowing Bambi who was walking in the woods and got surprised by a hunter. All they have to do is quit, like adults do everyday in real life when they see deals that require more than just showing up. If they can go to Best Buy on Black Friday knowing that they only have a few deals and the rest is just to get them in the store and not get mad, I can't see why they get upset over a video game doing the same thing.
At least they didn't have to camp outside in the cold and rain at 2am and spend gas getting there to get disappointed, lol.
HAHA I laughed hard at this. Nice Post. Sad but so true.
IDK which SOE game you are referring to, I play EQ2 and the cash shop items give no advantage in combat at all. all the items are appearance armor, housing, mounts, XP buffs, etc. Oh yeah & I got a nifty set of wings that prevents falling damage but Sony paid for those after the nework outage at the beginning of the year. Don't get me wrong, I agree that SOE is a greedy as it gets but it's not "buy to win" as you put it.
but I can only speak for the one SOE game that I play
Great column. One GLARING example of that type of "F2P" game is Foresaken World... Lord only knows how much money they are raking in from it. Its one of the most extreme examples of an Asian grindfest that I'm seen (outside of Asia) since Cabal.
Hay leave Chad alone we all know those are lies and that it is Angola that did all that...
Well on the up side they will sell you more bank space, bag space, and shared space to put them hats in :)
ever think that some of us like f2p because we lack time but have money. in a sub game time is what creates power, in a f2p money does. for people who have good jobs and work alot even a 100$ a month is not a big investment, and this makes up for time we cannot afford to spend in game.
Question is why in the world you would spend money to skip playing? Or to get anything in game?
It is like to pay your friend to get 10 points advantage in basketball match between you two. Even if you win it, you really did not win it. So where the satisfaction or achievement is in there?
Good point.
The way I look at it if someone is that bloody busy, why the hell even bother with video games in the first place. Especially games of this genre.
Try not to confuse the two.
F2P = Evil
B2P = Good
..... over time Sub games are not that cheap
Client 50$
Monthly 900$ ((12 months x 15$ fee/month) x 5 years)
Expansion 1 50$
Expansion 2 50$
Expansion 3 50$
Total 1100$
Your concerned about money, then keep an eye on the B2P pay style......cheapest in the long run, if you can find a title that suits you.
for example, with me it was GW1 (but the game suits me, maybe it's not for everybody)
Prophecies 54$
Factions 49$
Nightfall 54$
EyeNorth 44$
---------------
Total 201$
+ 61$ <--- extra wants, not needs, costumes and the like.....
Grand Total 262$ (over 6 years)
Was arguing with a guildmate the cheapest way to go for playing the game. He was saying that F2P with just buying packs was cheaper in the long run. I was advocating VIP - p2p as a better way to go. One of the benefits of B2P was I don't have to confine my adventuring to only packs I buy for adventuring. Yes, you can do some F2P stuff, but the problem is that its confined and often your wasting time looking for an adventure you can run, only to find the adventure you picked is yet again another one you have to pay for.
I've gotten access to more characters (10 instead of 2), more adventuring content, and a shared bank. He told me he paid $60 and I was like, I paid $30 so far......and I have access to more stuff. He says yea, but he'll have access to the adventuring packs forever without paying more. I mentioned how I went adventuring and there was this high level healer who was stuck with a pack and bored to tears in it. Being stuck only doing packs you buy gets boring fast. Overall, I think I'm ahead. In the long run, I might be a little behind, but probably get bored of the game in 6 months. And life-time subs are never a good idea, eventually you get bored of the game.
The issue with simply addressing the cost of B2P vs. P2P comes down to content. This is obviously not clear-cut, as not every company handles a subscription in the same manner. Also, in my opinion, sub games have taken a turn for the worse by catering to the Mo Fasta crowd that needs to be done with everything yesterday.
One way to look at it is in regard to Playability vs. Replayability. Traditionally, I believe the focus in MMORPGs was on Playability. There has been a shift in the genre to Replayability - thus, the term MMOGL (MMO Game Lobby) keeps cropping up.
If a person is looking for Replayability, then generally speaking - the B2P game model triumphs, once again in my opinion. Why? Well, B2P is the standard for single player games or game lobby games. Those games have a great deal of focus on Replayability over Playability. They could never justify the cost of the box without it.
The genre has changed, and it does become easy to see where the B2P model better fits the current game lobby system for many games - even though they continue to be P2P - or have shifted over to some form of F2P hybrid.
I miss the game where six months in, I'm still not at a point of replaying...
The reason games are going f2p is due to stupidity and arrogance from the companys/devs. People would gladly pay 15 bucks a month for a game that was worth 15 bucks a month. what i seen now a days is some idiot dev who comes out and pitches this big spiel about thier game and and thier idiotic vision of the game and then they ask for feedback and dont listen to the feedback and then thier game dies and thier forced to go to f2p or shut the doors.
franchises suffer from this the most they get greedy and rely on the name of the franchise and i have yet to see a franchise mmo really be succesful.
F2P has nothing to due with economy its just company arrogance/idiot devs/ stupidity. Ive seen it all swg matrix you name run into the ground lotro is going to be next. What can u do other then quit? Dcuo only got off thier butts when everyone left the game now theyre making more content now then most games 4 years in live lol
Heres how to make money i challenge any game company or dev prove me wrong
Listen to the bleeping customers (biggest de (
No lifetime subs at launch
keep servers/hardware up to date
create content as much as you can while people are subscribed not after theyve left
Dont redisgn the wheel 24/7 or insane drastic changes then try to explain why after the fact
These are the main reasons f2p is becoming the norm.
I find this to be an odd but typical attitude toward the F2P model. While I generally despise the model, I seriously disagree with most of what you have said here.
Many games launch as F2P - they are not conversions. They are not attempts to save a floundering game. They realize that many people do not want to pay a monthly subscription. The MMO market has changed - increased numbers from both B2P PC/Mac/console gamers as well as the sheer number of people on the internet.
It is a predatory model that often presents the company with a greater profit than if they had attempted to go with a P2P model. Several games have made the jump to a hybrid system to increase profit and revenue stream.
The MMO market is crowded. Lol, one could joke that it is Massively crowded. With 5 games, even with a smaller market - you're going to get a larger chunk of that market. Increase the market, but take it to 50 games? Take it to 100 games? Take it to hundreds of games... you're competing for a smaller piece of that pie.
Games launch these days with numbers that destroy numbers back in the early days...but they are considered a failure these days.
They are businesses. In the end, they want a sustained profit. They're going to go with what model gives them the best chance for that given the current market.
Nonsense.
First of all, the idea that it's kids "running up mommy's credit card" is vacuous. There are plenty of adults, 18+, who spend copious amounts of money.
Your example of how much is spent is rather pointless. Of course you don't have to spend that much on F2P MMOs. That's a non-argument. F2P/Cash Shops are designed and function around the idea that people do spend, and in many cases, spend a lot.
You're also accounting only for one-time purchases. You're leaving out another very significant part of the eqation..
Consumables and temporary items.
Consumables, in any context, are items that will be used and have to be replaced.
XP pots? Consumables
Higher potency HP/MP charms or potions or trinkets? Consumables
Items required to talk in General or Global Chat (like what Perfect World has, or at least had when I was trying it)? Consumable.
Temporary inventory space? Consumable
And so on.. and so on... and so on...
Those are items that players will have to buy repeatedly over time as they're used up. And the developers do their best to encourage that behavior by making the leveling curve as slow and tedious as they can without xp potions, by making MP and HP as difficult to maintain as they can without buying HP/MP potions, to make inventory as limited as possible without buying temporary, or even permanent inventory space. To make travel as slow as possible without buying a temporary, or even permanent faster mount.
The one time items - clothing, items and such items with a higher cost are just part of it and, I dare say, are not the bread and butter.
The people who claim to spend the least and scoff at those who spend the most always seem to forget one thing... The ones not spending any money are not the developers' target market. If you are not spending anything in the cash shop, you are not putting any money in the developers' pockets and you are taking up space and bandwidth on their network. The only purpose you serve is to be someone else to help make the game look more populated.
The spenders are the ones they're targeting. These games are designed around one very key fact that has been proven over and over again over the past decade with RMT... Even with RMT via third-party companies being prohibited and a bannable offense (which it still is in most cases, mind you - including F2P MMOs), there are people who are perfectly willing to spend 10s, 100s even thousands of dollars - more than they would ever spend on a box fee and monthly sub - on leveling, characters, items, gold, etc... just to beat the leveling curve, get what they want faster or get ahead of others.
THOSE are these developers' target markets. The spenders. You could say "well, it's the individual's fault for spending that much money" and you would be right where personal accountability is concerned.
That doesn't make it any less F'd up that these developers are designing their games from the ground up to encourage and profit - substantially - from that kind of behavior.
I would much rather see a developer put their effort into fighting RMT than greedily embracing it... which is all Cash Shops boil down to in the end: Sanctioned RMT.
Most F2P games are only pay-to-win if you actually want to win. If you just want to log a few casual hours here and don't care about looking all uber running around your faction capital in your maxxed out armor on your super rare mount, there's nothing wrong with F2P at all.
F2P devs are no more evil than casino owners.
That's not exactly a very flattering comparison lol.
A very accurate one, however.
Heh, think he meant a subtle insult there?
Afterall, the games in a casino have games where the odds favor the house taking your money. There is often even a little liquid relaxation to open one's pockets... shiny lights. Etc, etc, etc...
...yep, a very good comparison - F2P games are as EVIL as Casinos.
They might be fun to walk through, look around, etc... just don't sit down at any of the tables or machines to play.
Indeed!
The "liquid relaxation" in a F2P sense would be fast levels at the beginning, lots of gifts being thrown at you for the first several levels, freebies galore.
Just enough to give you a taste of what it's like to play with the benefit of those things, so that when the freebies stop coming and the leveling curve slows down and the game becomes slower and more tedious... you'll be much more willing to open the wallet, pull out the CC and resupply yourself with all those nitfy items they've so conveniently made available in the Cash Shop for you.
I swear it's like seeing a huge, unavoidable mud puddle in the middle of a sidewalk, with a guy standing right there with a long board - which he just happens to be carrying with him. He's asking people for $1 to walk across the board so they don't get their shoes/clothes dirty.
Oh sure you could walk around the block to avoid it, but it would be so much easier to just give the guy a buck and walk across it.
You're kind of in a hurry. But that's not his problem... He's just offering a service.
And after all, it's only a dollar.
So, you pull a $1 bill out of your wallet, telling yourself that it's a donation for the man's kindness in standing there helping people out . 'course, you don't realize he put the mud puddle there in the first place and replenishes it as necessary with a hose and pile of dirt he has hidden just around a corner and out of sight.
Funny enough, when you get to the other side, you see another guy standing there, also holding a long board, also asking for $1...
F2P is the ultimate sham job.
looks to me the author has played a hand ful of pay to wins and ASSUMES it's all like that. I've played a shit ton of f2p and found hardly any pay to win ones. shit allods gave up charging for charms. eden eternal mainly sells comestic and DDO and LOTRO are doing better ten every.
@kyleran and the author and everyone else - stop with this stigma bullshit. If everyone goes f2p then it's not gunna be pay 2 win, polish will come back into effect and so will content. if anything polish and content would be pushed hard because of the fact that you can jump in a play. Kyleran for the fact that u pay the sub and SC doesn't make sense to me. just buy what u need when u need it. If you aren't a lunatic then u CAN and WILL pay less then a sub.
for the subject of f2p being a drug and it's not really free. I'm tired of this excuse. If i can log in and play that's free to play. I've played tons of free to plays, never paid a dime and got to end games with no problems. Otherwise u have to pay for a month so you can play an MMO for maybe about a week before u get tired if it's a bad MMO. That's 15 bucks a month for a week or so of a game. For the fact that i have to pay for an MMO in general is absolute crap. I don't have to pay monthly for my xbox games. even if their online that one time payment lets me play tons of game thru xbox live.
i've never met more stubborn, ignorant people like i have at MMORPG sites over this f2p shit. get over it already you don't like don't play them anymore. like I said if every developer goes f2p then all your points are mute cause then it's right where we are now. polish and cotent.
True that. But business is business <shrug>. If they can make a good living by providing a service that others are willing to pay for, then more power to them. I tend to stay away from those types of games, because in all but rare cases, if the focus is on making money, rather than making the game fun (and making money because of that), the games tend to be not so much fun, as a second job.
The failure in your analogy about Madoff is that he lied to people to get them to give him money. In F2P with Cash Shop games, the devs aren't lying to you. You can see everything that is in the cash shop right up front so you know exactly what you're getting into.
A better analogy is: you walk into Best Buy (it's free to walk in there = F2P), you see a bunch of video/computer games you want, all priced resonably, you buy 100 of those games over the course of say, 6 months. Even at the low price of $10 per game, you just spent $1000 in 6 months. You realize how much you've spent and are now angry at Best Buy for luring you in and making it so tempting to buy those games. You claim Best Buy is evil for selling games that are so good at such a reasonable price.
This is the true problem: People not taking responsibility for themselves and then claiming they got ripped off somehow because they weren't bright enough to budget for what they want. Or, on the other hand, not going into Best Buy (= not playing the game), and not having the temptation in the first place. Either way it comes down to YOU and YOUR choices.
As for the con artist idea put out by another poster: It takes two to tango. The con artist can't operate without the sucker allowing himself to be duped.
Unless thats what you consider to be entertaining, and you don't mind spending money on it. I look at these games as a hobby. If I'm entertained, I have no objection what so ever to spending money to support my hobby. If I'm not entertained, I'll move on to a game that does keep my interest. I've been in WoW since late beta (with some vacatins off and on) for almost 7 years now. But the new MoP expansion with the "talent" 2.0 system looks like its going to be a game breaker.
The worst part is some games that are F2P still have items for purchase outside the full subscription. So now you pay the full sub plus that +2 tome to raise your attributes. Or...kick in for the instant rez to bail you out when you die. Spoils to those with the fat wallets.
Give me 100% pay to play with no options outside the original sub and a level playing field please.
"I can't afford a sparkle pony so no one should be able to have one." It's interesting how many people know what's good for everyone else.
F2P is good for the game company bottom line, which means that plenty of people who say they never spend money in-game are fooling themselves (even if they can't fool others).
No offense, but I kind of had to laugh at that.
In "Free to Play" with "Cash Shop"... the dev's aren't lying to you.
Free...Cash Shop.
Once again...
Free...Cash Shop.
Well if i can not buy a ferrari i sure as heck will buy a pixelsteed.
Actually as long as the base access to the game is free they can call it free without "lying"...
But yes i have a income and i have worked damm hard at it, so if i want to buy me a advantage i sure as heck will do it.
Neither Subscriptions or Cash Shops suit my personality.
I don't want a subscription, because I want the option to play or not to play at my own whim and at the speed I want to. I don't have 10+ hours a day to waste on video games so I shouldn't have to pay the same as someone who does.
I don't want cash shops because I want to be able to obtain everything ingame myself.
This is why I play Entropia Universe and why it has suited my own preferences so well.
My own cost history is much better than either option you have presented.
(in almost 4 years playing)
First 6 months completely free with a steady but challenging progression.
Then started to deposit when I realized the true potential of the game and had gained a trust in the systems.
<3000$ deposited
3300$ withdrawn legitimatly and legaly to my own bank acount.
= ive got out $300+ more than what I put in.
+ If i cashed out right now I would have another 2-4000$
I budget monthly, but if I dont want to put in I dont have to.
I am comfortable with the knowledge that what I do put in, can be played with, lost or invested. And that what is left over or won from investments I can always pull back out of the game without going through any shady 3rd party credit card theives.
There is no way im paying for a new subscription game that I might not like.
There is no way im starting a f2p game /w a cash shop requiring me to purchase stuff for progression.
I have not seen any game advertized that I believe can give me the challenge and sense of accompleshment of what I am playing, so there isn't any point in me looking.
IMO both popular models f2p/cash shop and subscription are flawed.
narfi
Basic economics. If F2P did not make MORE money that P2P, it would go away.
Apparently you don't understand the concept of Free to Play. It's free to PLAY the game. That doesn't mean that everything in the game must be free. So, if you can play the game for free, but there is a cash shop that has unnecessary items in it, then you don't have to pay to play it. Hence, Free to Play.
[Mod Edit]
I don't mind if you want to buy your in game advantage. What I would have a problem with is you buying that advantage and then saying the devs are "evil" or "greedy" because they provided you with the opportunity to buy that advantage.
Hey guys, lets avoid baiting :). Thanks!
Lying - to create a false or misleading impression.
Where is the false or misleading impression? A game says it is Free to Play. You download it and play it for free. You notice a cash shop. You look into it and find XP boosts, weapons, armor, pots, and some cosmetic items and travel items. With those things, the game is a little easier to play, and/or your character looks "cooler". Without those things, the game is a little harder to play, and/or your character doesn't look quite as cool. Even if you go the harder, uncool route, you are still able to play the game for free. How does that make Free to Play a false or misleading impression?
It's my opinion that those who are so vehemently against F2P have no problem creating a false or misleading impression about the Free to Play concept. Hence the idea of Pay to Win, which is what many opponents of F2P love to call it.
Then can you please edit the orignal baiting post?
"Free...Cash Shop.
Once again...
Free...Cash Shop."
You call the game Free to Play...gives the impression that it is Free to Play. You're not caling the game Free to Play with a Cash Shop. You're calling it Free to Play. Thus, you create the impression that the game is free to play.
The person gets into the game...they see that it is partially free to play. Again, the game was billed as Free to Play...not Partially Free to Play.
It is very much a case of lying and creating that false/misleading impression.
B2P... the impression is that you are buying the game and you can play it. There is nothing more to it. It is not Partially B2P. There is not the long hard path where you just B2P or the easier path where you B2P and hit up the cash shop. It is B2P. There may be additional content down the road...and you buy that so you can play that. They may sell complete fluff - but that does not affect your path - there is one path.
P2P...the impression is that you have bought the game and you are paying the sub so you can play it and any updates. Generally speaking, there is nothing more to it. It is not Partially P2P. There is not the long hard path where you just P2P or the easier path where you P2P and hit up the cash shop. It is P2P. There may be additional content down the road...and that may be part of your subscription or like having to buy the game in the first place, you have to buy it. They may sell complete fluff - but that does not affect your path - there is one path.
F2P... meh, seriously? I'm not sure how it is even a topic of discussion.
I get that big companies see it as producing a better revenue stream than B2P/P2P. I get that new companies see it as their only option to get their game out there.
Does not change what it is...
That was not baiting. That was short emphasis.
[Mod Edit]
It's not partially free to play, it is free to play. There is the way the game is intended to be played - the "long hard way". Then there is the quicker "I can't handle my character being less than max level" way in the cash shop. Also, most P2P and B2P games have that as well. You can go in there cash shops and buy XP boosts, pots, etc. that make the game a little easier to play. How is that any different?
So, no, they are not lying, as much as you'd like to make believe that they are.
There is definitely something we can agree on!
I also didn't take your post as baiting....I just responded the same way. My rating has gone down for the same reasons. I guess some people don't like others' opinions... I personally thought your post was kind of funny, and so I responded with what I thought was funny.
I'd like to thank Coyote for saying what I've been saying for the last five years or so. Unlike what the industry says, F2P is not designed to be enjoyed by casuals.
Instead, F2P is designed to transform casuals into hardcore, MMO junkies.
Come on people there is NO such thing as a free to play game. You eventually have to pony up the cash to play it.
It is ludicrous to even think any of these games are free to play!
-sigh-
Dishonesty does not require outright lying.
I've read every response since I made my last post and I see that people are, time and again, looking at it as "It's F2P because you don't have to buy those things to play the game! They're optional!"
Yes... that explanation covers what F2P are on the surface... but goes no deeper.
If you read what people like myself, the OP and others have stated, our issue is not with the fact that "items are sold that are completely optional". Hell, playing the game at all is completely optional, so anything after that is even moreso..
The problem lies in how the games are designed to compel people to not play for free. The designers implement all manner of speed-bumps, barriers, pot holes and obstacles - to a degree that would never be tolerated in a sub-based MMO and players would demand be adjusted - and they do it deliberately. Why? Because for every speed bump, obstacle, pot hole and barrier designed into the game, they have an item conveniently for sale in their cash shop to circumvent the barriers and obstacles, and help offset the speed-bumps.
Once again, the people who seem to say "nuh uhhhh" the most are those who claim to play these games without spending a dime; some goings so far as to claim that they've gone all the way to end-game and/or engaged fully in end-game content without restraint... without buying anything in the cash shop.
To those who play without paying a dime: You are not the developers' target market. You are playing the game in a way that is at odds with what the developers intend.
The developers' intention is to make money. They intend to make money using a system that has been openly described as monetizing players for potentialy far more than a box+sub fee could ever earn. The entire game is designed, from the ground up, to get people to spend as much as possible.
Those of you who are saying "those spending money are idiots" are completely missing the point. Those people you are calling "idiots" are the ones paying the bills. They're the ones keeping the game you play "without spending a dime" online and running.
They are the people the developers are targeting. You - those not spending anything - aren't.
Look past the sassy PR, ignore the spiffy advertising with the word "FREE!" plastered everywhere and think about it.
Perspective... It helps.
With the understanding that people spending money are who the developers are targeting, we can now move on to what is - to myself and others - the real crux of the issue... That is, how they go about getting people to spend that money. And to understand that at the 10,000 foot, "big picture" level, you need only read the quote in my signature which reads, to paraphrase:
"If you take a step back, you will clearly see all the potholes and the cash shop selling asphalt".
Are the developers lying by calling it free? No. Technically, they are telling the truth. What they are, however, is deceptive in how the game is designed.
I was saying the same thing when talking to the gf about the deletions - that I had not thought your post was baiting - that where mine had been short emphasis - you were just emphasizing as well, and that it was kind of funny.
There's no doubt that we disagree on many of the aspects of the F2P model, but it was the most civil and sticking to the point discussion I think I've ever had on it. Hence the, ahem, description that I used that was edited out - heh, cause that is what it usually ends up being. Which this was not...
You're right, it is a matter of perspective. It's also mostly a matter of patience. I believe, from reading many many posts on this issue, that most people who complain about F2P games and their cash shops basically don't like the grindy aspect of these games, or the relatively slow leveling within the games. Hence, they buy the XP boosts, and pots, etc. Then they turn around and complain about all the money they spent. I agree, F2P devs are in the business of making money. One way they have figured out to make money is to offer their product for free, then charge for extras. They are very up front about it. If you download just about any F2P game and immediately check out all the stuff in their cash shop, you can get a very good idea of what you may be facing. Also do some research into how others feel about the playability of the game. If you're one of those whose ADD prevents you from having the patience to grind your way through a game, don't play it. Go play a sub based game because they don't try to funnel you into paying as much as they can get you to.
You talk about the cash shop selling the asphalt for the potholes. What is a sub based game doing other than selling you the car (the box) and then selling you the permission to drive it?
Frankly, I don't think that F2P devs are any more deceptive in their offerings than any P2P game.
It seems like the western games that have converted to so called F2P have been the masters of allowing only limited access to the game and then forcing you to pay to get the rest. I call these, Pay 2 finish games. EQ2 and LOTRO are like this. I guess it comes from the whole DLC concept. Then add to that the idea of allowing only so much inventory space unless you buy it. Again this falls more in the DLC category because they really give you no options for getting say your last two bags in the game. you only get those slots with a subscription or something like that. In the west, as has been mentioned, we have also essentially “perfected” the double and triple dipping strategies of sub + cashshop + box? + expansions? This can be fine if it is kept to a limit. What WoW does is probably fine, selling a few vanity pets or mounts is not a big deal. What EQ2X does is considerably more greedy and will probably sink them in the long run.
But that shouldn't be confused with the type of F2P games that have more often come from the east like Perfect World and the soon coming update to Lineage 2 that allow you full access to the game world, all the races and classes, all levels and give you at least a way to expand your inventory to the max without paying for it. Of course who wants to way another 30 levels to get a ghetto slow flying mount when you can pay for something much faster and get it much sooner? But I think the big difference between these two flavors of free to play is that everything is available to the non-paying player in the eastern model. It is very very, very slow to get but it is available and that makes a big difference.
I don't think it is legitimate to say that nobody pays nothing for these games and those who say they do are lying. Some people have more time on their hand. Kids. People on disability. They often have little extra cash but a whole lot of extra time. And that is the trick to these games. Some people are willing to take the time to farm up 10 million tiny coins and sell them to a rich person for something bought from the cash shop or in games that support it sell it directly for the cash shop cash. This way the cash poor/time rich can get access to the goodies in the cash shop just as the cash rich/time poor player can. Trading time for game currency is really what EVE's Plex system is all about as well. People do play for free but they have to have both time and patience.
Keep in mind that here on this board most posters are gamers in the proper sense and that means we tend to be more competitive. F2P cash shop games can financially gut those who are hyper competitive. If there is a way to get ahead and get there first we tend to want to take it. And in those games cash is the fastest way there. But keep in mind that it doesn't have to equate to Pay 2 Win. Getting to the end game before anyone else might be seen as "winning" to the hyper competitive types but after most people are already there, getting though the leveling simply changes the time frame for when a new person will enter the end game as well. Paying for pre-endgame leveling boosts doesn't change the endgame it just changes who is in it and when. What needs to be avoided are those thing that could skew the balance of the endgame itself. Like selling endgame buffs or gear that are unique to the cash shop. It is one thing to sell a pot called buffer-in-a-bottle that simply gives you the same 8 buffs that a player who plays the buffer can give you for free, and the bottle-o-bad-ass that doubles your uber which has no equivalent in the game. The later is bad, very bad. Same goes for gear.
My point is that there are better and worse ways to handle free to play. Perfect World I think is on the bit better side but they still have some very evil tendencies. Like preying on those with gambling addiction or making some of the high end gear all but impossible to craft without cashshopping. Setting this stuff up right also requires some common sense ethics which doesn't seem to be all too common any more. But the possibility is still there.
I am curious to see how Lineage 2 will handle their move to F2P. They seem to "get it". at least in principle from what they have said and written about concerning "Truly Free". They get that you shouldn't split your community into cool kids and kids in corduroy, it is just not right. They have somewhat emphasized that they will be selling leveling enhancements and vanity items but then they have also hinted at selling buffs and other supplies. Will the buffs effect endgame? If they are anything like the buff items that are given during events then, no not really. they are usually just items that give you buffs that are duplicates of the spells from the buffing classes. Borderline but not quite game breaking. They have also mentioned that some cash shop items will be sellable. If they make tradable anything that is "game effecting" then that also allows people to trade their time in the form of adena for items from the cash shop. I would rather see an ncoin marketplace like PW has but perhaps they are working on it and just don't have it ready yet. who knows.
I also suspect that since L2 is a long standing and well developed PvP endgame that they will not do anything to jack up its balance. But given its long history of being a slow leveling grind game they will have little problem making money off those with less time and more cash who wish to speed up the leveling process a bit. L2 stands in a good spot to take over the free to play market since PW was largely copied from L2 and even with dated graphics still comes across as a much higher quality game than PW. While F2P will never supplant P2P I think L2 will soon be considered the gold standard for how F2P should be done.
This was a lot to read but I enjoyed it.
Seems like this article is to vent the greatness of P2p games and specialy games like WOW. Since everyone seems to believe it is the only game worth playing worth paying for and pay non stop, but in order to that you need to spend some cash every month "14,95$", as for the F2P you will spend more money since you do it every day apparantly.
I've seen many people play Both side of the coins P2P like wow and etc and then F2P. Most of the time if you dont pay that monthly fee at the end of the month you either buy a life time subscription or simply dont play the next month and wait till you can pay for the next month and so on,and when we turn on the other side of the dime we have the free to play experience some of us play games like the turbine games or the asian game of PWE and gpotato and the MMOBA like Leagues of legends etc.
The majority of the players have that option to play the game and grind happily and make points those points are rewards from quest and so on, basically you really are not forced to spend any dime in the game, unless you feel like it is a must in order to level quickly you have to spend money so that you can be at the top, like you have a reputation to futfill and show the community how quickly you can level your toon to the highest level.
I have played P2P games like Eve and wow from their launch and i can tell you when i did the math and see how much have spend each for those game i am sure not everyone will believe me. Just recently i started playing those F2P games that apparantly put you on broke days and so on, i actually have no problem with them because i am not forced nor feel the rush to buy anything in the cashshop, f2p is similar to our real life story (Are we forced to go to the mall everyday and be on shopping spree to consume consume ?) or (do we use the mall only because we are in need of something and we only make that stop only to get that item ?) and then you move on with your life, it is pretty much the same thing in a free to play game its not like you are forced to be on top the game is here to be enjoyed as life is to be enjoyed and not to actually feel like there is a rush or you will be missing that world wonder you are so after that by being at the last level feel better about yourself. For me i dont have that feel of spending urge in a game cause i think when a game is free to play it is meant to be enjoyed to run arround and to actually to those quests and kill those beast and level slowly but surely and also take the time to enjoy the other things that are around us in life that by sitting behind a comp we might end up missing.