Scott Jennings: Macrotransactions
MMORPG.com columnist Scott Jennings writes about the recent uproar over Allods Online's microtransaction prices.
Column By Scott Jennings on February 24, 2010
gPotato’s Allods Online stretches the meaning of “microtransaction” – and misses the point
Allods Online has been something unusual – a ‘free to play’ MMO from Russia’s Nival that rivals many subscription-based games for its polish and level of gameplay. It’s gotten a lot of good press and positive reviews… until last week. In fact, in one day, the buzz from the beta testers went from “this game is awesome” to “they’re crazy if they think we’ll play this”.
What happened? gPotato released their “item shop” and players went ballistic.
Item shops are how the great majority of free to play games actually make money. The idea is simple – start playing, get interested in the game, and then buy something that makes the game better, or easier, or whatever. This model is, to put it mildly, successful. Players generally don’t mind seeing “free to play” games as, more specifically, “free trials”. If they really like a game, many don’t mind paying a little extra to play it more. Not all players do – free to play games are especially popular with kids who simply can’t afford subscriptions or things in item shops – but enough do to make the scheme profitable.
So, Allods’ using an item shop wasn’t seen as that surprising. What was surprising was the prices. Most players at first thought the item shop, when it first came out, had to have a translation error, or too many zeroes in the prices, or something. There was no way, players thought, that gPotato seriously thought players would pay $20 for a backpack, or $1 for half an hour’s worth of 100% PvP effectiveness, or in the most outrageous example, the top tier of item-enhancing “runes” that cost $7,000. You might think that was a typo. Allods’ players certainly did. It literally seemed as though gPotato had simply taken the prices that Russian players, who were already playing a released version of the game, were paying, and multiplied by 10.
;)
It wasn’t a typo. gPotato came out and said, well, you can still play for free! Free to play, woohoo!
We wanted to make clear that beyond the introduction of the item shop nothing has changed in Allods that wouldn’t allow you to enjoy the game just as much as you did during closed beta. You can still enjoy the entire game without ever having to spend a single cent. Additionally, many of the items available in the item shop are tradable in-game, appear through a number of quests, and can be auctioned off by other players.
…but if you want a level 10 item rune, it’ll cost you $7000. Apparently, this already sold for $700 in the Russian version of Allods, so it’s not like there isn’t a precedent for really high-priced gear – gPotato just decided to grab the palladium-encrusted diamond ring. At those prices, after all, they don’t really need to sell that many!
Just in case the point hadn’t been driven home, a patch then promptly went live on the Russian Allods servers that effectively made the game less free-to-play – making sure that, gPotato’s promises to the contrary, the newly pricey item shop gear would be even more required. As Keen, who has been the main source of news about this issue on his popular blog (which until, oh, this past week was one of the premier sources of positive buzz for the game) put it:
Today the patch notes for 1.0.07.07 were released for the Russian Version. Guess what was in these notes? Game breaking changes to the cash shop… the math was done and we’re looking at over $50 / month in order to participate in end-game PVE… Mounts were also added but require you to purchase food for them from the cash shop in order for them to work their best…
Patch 1.0.07.07 will be the end of the game for pretty much everyone and not by choice. We’re all very confused as to what is going on right now. None of us can afford to pay $50-$75 per month to PvE at level 40. None of us understand why the game that was literally pure gold is now struggling to hold on for dear life and how it all happened at once…
Note well: when the most visible blogger writing about your game writes things like this? This is what community managers refer to as a nightmare scenario. Usually while drinking heavily.
Monday, gPotato posted again:
We want to make clear that this is something we are not taking lightly. We are not sitting and waiting just to see how many dollars we’re going to make over the next four weeks. It is very clear to us that players are already disgruntled with the situation and we are actively working on new pricing options to accommodate the masses. However, we ask the Allods community to please be patient with the situation! Adjustments like this cannot happen overnight.
This probably is as close as you’re likely to see to “Uh… boy, did we goof.” The associated “please post here to give us feedback, even though you’ve already posted 900 other threads giving us feedback, we’re reading this thread TO DEATH” thread in the official forums had the following plaintive cry from a no doubt very, very frazzled community representative:
We are reading this on an hourly basis and relaying the feedback and suggestions to those who can make such decisions and changes. Let me assure you that I know tensions are high right now, I know many of you feel as though the game you love is being run into the ground, and changes need to be made. We are working on it, I promise.
;)
So – that’s the situation as it stands. My comments?
It seems pretty obvious that there is a fairly big disconnect between the people talking to the players and the people making decisions. Note the key phrase above: “relaying feedback to those who can make changes”. Because, let’s face it – changing the price of an item in a shopping cart isn’t rocket science, and it doesn’t require weeks of planning. If your market research (helpfully supplied by your market threatening to research other games) tells you your item shop gear is overpriced, you cut the price. Simple. Effective. Would eliminate the player’s fears immediately. So why hasn’t it been done?
Because whomever is making the decisions doesn’t understand how free to play games work. Which is fairly surprising, since this isn’t gPotato’s first free to play title. Yet apparently someone forgot how to design a player experience.
You see, for games that have item shops with, for better or worse, “essential” gear, it’s priced to be the equivalent of a monthly subscription fee. If a hardcore player purchases, say, experience enhancement or drop enhancement gear so that they can play the game as intended (instead of the radically slowed version available to free players willing to skew far into the time side of the time-over-money paradigm) then the game developer knows exactly how much that average hardcore player will need, and prices their gear accordingly. They don’t want to price them out of the market, because they need those hardcore players to make the game profitable.
Although there’s certainly room for high ticket vanity items (Simutronics, for example, sells developer-officiated player weddings in their text MUDs for quite a hefty sum of change) simply jacking up prices of items that are supposed to be impulse buys defeats the entire psychological purposes of a “micro-transaction”. If you have to think about it, it’s probably not really an impulse buy. A $2 backpack would be an impulse buy for many players. A $20 backpack, not so much.
Which tells me, again, that there is a disconnect in play between the people who are dealing with their customers (and designing the experience for them) and the people who are setting the prices. And if that disconnect isn’t resolved quickly, there won’t be much need for people to deal with their customers.
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Aside from this column, Scott is also currently contracting with NCsoft.
Every Wednesday he provides us an insider's look at the MMO industry.
F2P and MTs are bad because of one reason: People should buy the items because they like the game, and not because the game is shit without them. Hence why so many people hate this practice.
honestly this has to be the dumbest sounding thing ever $7000? who the hell comes up with these numbers and then he has the gall to say they aint going for a cash grab in the next 4 weeks
doesnt seem to me they will be getting much of anythng and whats sad is i play rappelz another gpotato game and aika and neither of them have me buying garbage to keep up so wth is wrong here one word greed
Its not like other companies dont do this. Jade Dynasty, another Free To Play game by Perfect World Entertainment costs plenty to participate in endgame content. And if you want to enchant your weapon or upgrade your pet, well.... heh.... youre paying thousands to do that. I personally stopped after spending $1500 in 3 months and walked. Others in my guild have spent close to $10,000 USD on that game. Folks get stuck into a product by the amount of money wasted on it, and keep spending in order to remain competitive, never realizing that their "investment" will never pay off. Ever.
Allods marketing team realizes that players will pay. They simply dont know if their game has been effectively advertised to the players that do.
I have zero problems with cash shops. I've bought plenty of stuff from DDO cash shop, and EQ marketplace.
I'm not even going to look at Allod's. Like I said in another thread; gpotato = A bunch of goons from Korea who think Americans are nothing but lazy fat cats with HUGE wallets. Sorry to disappointment the world, but Americans struggle financially, too.
but that was 3 months we are talking about $7000 in one sitting who the hell is going to buy that and quite frankly if they did who the hell is going to be with em i cant see people flocking to pay 7 grand though it wouldnt be suprising
Flocking, no. Paying, yes. Theres always going to be one person whos pecker is small enough that theyll pay to "dominate" a game, no matter the cost. There's always another player who is trying to compete with the first player.... that person will pay too!
DDO proved their point that cash shops can be effective... But they didn't sell any stuff that really unballanced the game or made you much more powerfull, their prices where allready to high for me...
But this will meen the end of free gaming and even $15 subscriptions, if people give intoo the slowly rising prices of item shops, soon every MMO will be free and require you to buy atleast for $50 a month to be competitive..
So we all need to ban itemshops, we need to show developers that we don't want item shops and either don't buy from them or return to WoW and start spamming Blizzard over those evil goldspammers again.
I didn't play Jade Dynasty, but I have played Perfect World International. PWI's cashshop cost more than the other versions, but truthfully, they allow players to buy cashshop credit from other players and also allows other players to sell cashshop items to others. My friend and I did not spend a dime on it while playing even in endgames simply because if you know how to make enough in-game money, there are always people selling the cashshop item or credit to you.
In something like territory war, all you really need are the hierograms for a HP/MP recovery as they drop too low, but at high levels it changes which it really won't save you more than just once in a long while. Also, the anti-death penalty item is also rather popular for people who play on open-pvp servers. Of course many people simply buy those from other players, and some guilds pay you just to participate in it. Mainly, PWI allows players to obtain items and credit for cashshop without actually paying a dime from players that can afford to sell them. Not saying it is the perfect solution, but no where near as bad as other item mall oriented ones so PWI doesn't make a great example.
Allods looked as a good game to try out.. but it seems that their management is extremely dump, I won't give my money to them!
I didn't play Jade Dynasty, but I have played Perfect World International. PWI's cashshop cost more than the other versions, but truthfully, they allow players to buy cashshop credit from other players and also allows other players to sell cashshop items to others. My friend and I did not spend a dime on it while playing even in endgames simply because if you know how to make enough in-game money, there are always people selling the cashshop item or credit to you.
In something like territory war, all you really need are the hierograms for a HP/MP recovery as they drop too low, but at high levels it changes which it really won't save you more than just once in a long while. Also, the anti-death penalty item is also rather popular for people who play on open-pvp servers. Of course many people simply buy those from other players, and some guilds pay you just to participate in it. Mainly, PWI allows players to obtain items and credit for cashshop without actually paying a dime from players that can afford to sell them. Not saying it is the perfect solution, but no where near as bad as other item mall oriented ones so PWI doesn't make a great example.
Honestly PWI and JD are two totally different games. I found the item shop in Perfect World was done well. The item shop in Jade Dynasty however is just a cash cow. You cant buy things from other players worth mentioning, things bind on equip and are not resellable as a result. Its just money spent.
What I find humorous, is that even with the acknowlegement of their cash shop being out of alignment with player opinion and that they have said, a willingness to make a better more accurate change....
the item mall is STILL online, with the SAME absurd pricing.
gpot admits to overpriced items, they admit there is a problem, they admit and acknowledge to thier playerbase enough to post a feedback thread, they state they are "working on a solution" and "reading every post".... yet they have no issue leaving the cs online and still milking the unsuspecting patron, who doesn't read the forums or research the problem. It seems to me that IF there was a serious intent to rectify the problem, repair the communities trust, and start a fresh approach to a fair cash shop, gpot would shut the problem down until they had a fair solution.
BUT, you guessed it... still online. This action speaks louder than words. It is action that will bring back the community and game.. non action only means they could give a rats ass. Probably ignoring the intent, waiting for folks to bail and the air to clear on its own, as they surely dont care about the CB testers, the OB testers, or the future of thier game and community. You have to wonder, is that 20$ 6 slot upgraded bag worth it gpotato? I mean, wtf are you seriously thinking? Morons.
I am one needle away from deleting the game. I havn't logged since the cs was implemented. I would love to partake in play, and be a patron of the CS... but you have GOT to be kidding me.
d
What does not make sense is that the Allods developers are letting a publisher ruin their game. That is what makes no sense to me. The disconnect from the community managers and the decision makers is common in MMO's. Who listens to the players anymore? Nothing usually happens until the players disappear then everyone points fingers at each other.
Jade Dynasty is a bad example, because it is a pvp with a cash shop. Anytime you mix those two items you are looking at a huge cash drain if you want to be competitive. If you want to pvp in an item shop game you just have to expect to have deep pockets if you want to compete.
I have played Perfect World for years and spent not a dime on the game. I used to think that $250 for a special pet was outrageous, Perfect World is a bargain compared to something like Allods.
gPotato deserves every bit of negative publicity for this stunt. Many of us just don't play any games they support.
I'd really love to hear what Richard Aihoshi thinks of this whole situation. Being he's the rsident F2P advocate, his opinion piece on this is extremely relevent, IMO.
I mean, Scott is great, and I love reading his posts, but a little point/counter-point from soneone that supports all things F2P would be amazing, I think.
The problem seems more to be that they also thinks that yanks are totally retarded because only a 100% idiot would pay 7K for a in game item. Already $700 is ridiculous.
DDO understands this, if you have stuff at good prices people who is already buying stuff will throw in a few extra items when they are shopping, kinda like buying a candy bar or a magazine when you go out to buy milk. As soon as stuff gets to expensive people will plan things carefully. And as soon as things pass expensive they will either quit the game or ignore the shop.
It is not as virtual items actually costs money (after you made the item mind you) so they should put the price that will maximize player numbers and profit. Turbine knows this and so does all successful F2P MMO while Gpotato seems clueless.
Lets face it F2P games are going to die or many of them will be on life support in the West anyways. Nothing against the East after all they gave us Aion woops lol er um well moving along. But with so many MMOs and so called mmorpg out there now it seems with ppl being more and more picky bout what they play I believe just that many of these F2P games will not be around much longer.
The problem seems more to be that they also thinks that yanks are totally retarded because only a 100% idiot would pay 7K for a in game item. Already $700 is ridiculous.
DDO understands this, if you have stuff at good prices people who is already buying stuff will throw in a few extra items when they are shopping, kinda like buying a candy bar or a magazine when you go out to buy milk. As soon as stuff gets to expensive people will plan things carefully. And as soon as things pass expensive they will either quit the game or ignore the shop.
It is not as virtual items actually costs money (after you made the item mind you) so they should put the price that will maximize player numbers and profit. Turbine knows this and so does all successful F2P MMO while Gpotato seems clueless.
Good points indeed...
I would like to chime as well that DDO , charges for convenience. As in, you could grind 90-100% of the lock out, or spend 20 bucks to unlock the content faster.. this gives the player OPTIONS based on THIER time and finance. The only imbelishment to balance with DDO is purchasing pots in lieu of stradegy play to get to that rest stone, or simply ignore it completely.
Cash shop games that DO have engame pvp are a HUGE money sink to be competitive, is correctly stated. These greedy bastages know this. And most experienced ftp players know this as well, it's the unsuspecting that has to reach endgame then look back at the great amount of time they invested and feel pressure to buy to remain viable. It IS a cash trap. Oh wait.. but its a free to play game. The difference between DDO and Allod's, JD and many others, is that convenience sells better than balance.
d
I am sure he would say something along the lines of what the Allods team said... "hey... the game is free, these things are all optional, they are in no way forcing you to do that (obviously a very limited perception of the meaning of "forcing")".
Not to mention he indirectly calls you a Snob if you use the pay to win argument in his latest article as the reason you developed a general hate for F2P MMOs and prefer not to play them (it's your damn personal choice, yet he prefers to go further and attack it), as if an argument can age or get tired, therefore becoming invalid (much easier to use a fallacy then to actually try to show the argument is not true):
"This often manifests itself in reiterations of the old and increasingly tired "I can't compete unless I spend money" argument. So... what's your point? If you find certain games are like that and it doesn't sit right with you, simply avoid them. But honestly, does doing so mean you're a better gamer, or a smarter one? Or does it make you an MMOG snob?"
I am a snob on denial because I won't even consider playing a game that features a $7000 item that by the sounds of it will make you either godly or a scammed fool.
At Allod's blatent money grab..?
I am a snob and proud of it.
d
See, I think the biggest failure is not knowing your market. If someone is hardcore enough to spend 7000 dollars for some runes, chances are they probably don't work and therefore don't have that kind of money. I have a very good job...but I'd rather tack on $3000 dollars to that and buy another rental property, but that's me.
I'm not opposed to buying stuff in an item shop if it appeals to me. So far nothing has, but if it does I will definitely buy something, just not at ridiculous prices. I could see buying something at $1, 5, or maybe 10 dollars. After that, I have lost interest and start disliking the company.
If purchasing from the item shop is required to compete, then the game isn't "free to play" - it's a more expensive subscription based game than a traditional subscription based game. That's where the F2P model fails. We the MMO paying fanbase aren't going to pay more than the standard $15 per month for long, if at all, before we walk. I will not pay real dollars for virtual crap in a game...ever. I will not pay for micro-additional content...ever. If your game requires me to buy this crap to compete with other players that do, I'm not playing your game.
If you want my money, keep that in mind when you develop.
I agree with this..
I am retired, invested, and have disposable income. I have spent monies on cash shops, though not to the extent of some. I have no issues spending money on cash shops either if the game is decent and has a decent community. Do my part to help the game grow. Or at least think I do. But this is a personal example:
When Allod's opened up the cs and I looked at the 20$ bag upgrade.. (only six slots mind you, 18 slots to 24), I thought to myself.. man this is a bit steep, but I assumed it was account wide. It wasn't.. thats 20$ PER character. I enjoy playing alts/different classes to break up the monotony of one class. In CB, I rolled all classes and decided four for OB.. thats 80 bucks to equip upgrades.. JUST for bags. lol.. um no.
dislike for me is an understatement.
d
That is true, it is not realy so much the cashshop model being bad though. It is more along the line that the games designed around the use of cashshop is bad. Of course the high pricing on some F2P give it a even worse reputation.
If a game was F2P but offers a good pricing which does not exceed what P2P players pay monthly on average, and the cash shop items itself does not impedge game progress. (Basically cosmetic and convenience focused) I don't think F2P would be such a bad model nor have a bad reputation among players.
I think F2P model is usually handled too poorly when it comes to cash shop. A lower price generally boost sales just on impulsive buys alone. When a player think they are at least getting their money's worth with cash shop items and the game itself is entertaining nothing is wrong with a F2P model.
you know maybe we should boycott them by dropping thier games i was looking forward to getting back into aika today but after hearing all this im not sure i care about rappelz or aika anymore this is just weak
This looks like one of those classic "suit" responses that advocates not discounting anything/raising prices: "You can lose half your customers and still make more money!"
Once in a while they are correct, but most of the time there's a disconnect between doing that, and the other effects raising prices can cause. There are many, but as one example - those 1/2 of your (former) customer base people tend not to go away quietly, and it's VERY EASY to miscalculate/misjudge the size of the new customer base after you increase the prices. If it really ends up a 1/3 or a 1/4 of your former customer base, the extra profits go bye-bye, and you've just driven away over half of your cash flow for NOTHING.
In a way, I hope this company sticks to their guns and runs with this plan. If they are right, they can run servers that aren't maxed out with players, giving the best performance on their end, while having "Setting Money on Fire" lunch hours once a week and not giving a Gawd Damn what bloggers say about them. If they are wrong, which I personally hope they are, then a ceiling is set that other developers will respect for future games.
This is a bad situation
"We are working very HARD on a solution" - While still keeping the insane cash shop online - PRO
Proving there's some free to play models that aren't so bad (DDO) vs this one which might be possbily the worst one I've ever seen.
I actually had some interest in this game and was considering playing it once it went live, but once this all came out I dropped any thought I had of trying it.
heh..
Yes, I just posted some feedback in thier forums dedicated cash shop feedback thread in ref, to shutting the cs down until the problem is rectified..
I didn't break the threads rules, nor did I break the forums rules for posting in any way. The intent was to suggest that if the current cash shop items are out of balance with the communities opinion, and that there is a clear motivation to rectify the problem, as well as still being in OB (considered a testing phase), that maybe it would be a good idea to take the cs offline until a solution is created.
lol.. deleted.
posted a question as to why, stating no rules or guidlines had been breached..
deleted.
:) It is clear to me that they have no intention of doing a damn thing. And also clear to me, they could care less about my "feedback" as it is not inline with generating money. Say one thing, delete another.
this could just be that needle.
d
Mr. Jennings: Pity you haven't linked to your MMORPG.com articles from Broken Toys in quite a while. It would be interesting to discuss this thing over there.
I never played Allods, but after this, I can hardly say I am planning to. The depressing part is that nothing will change. If some people have found a way to play Evony, it's hopeless to attempt to reason with people like those in this thread who blew $1,500 on three months' play. Undoubtedly, there will be people lined up to buy that $7,000 thingy, and as much as most of the potential players, even some of the game's most ardent supporters, might walk away in disgust, gPotato will be cracking a smile.
At the same time, I'm not sure that those who have balked will maintain their stoic resolve for very long, except those who realize they can't afford it. After all, in a case of "take it or leave it" like this, have you ever seen a company backtrack? Did EA backtrack over its Battlefield Heroes price hike (2000% in some cases) for items bought with in-game points? And in that case, they had the redeeming grace of somewhat lowering the prices in real money, effectively targeting the freeloaders. But is that wise to pull such a switch when you used to brag about how spending money on the game didn't make anyone more competitive at it? So Battlefield Heroes is a parody of its former self, but still around and unapologetic (it's not like EA is in the business of apologizing for anything). Players' quitting threats came to nothing. Life goes on. It's like the whole thing never happened.
Until players develop the resolve to just walk away from a game, and not look back at least until things have changed, developers will be free to pull such cons (what is $20 for a virtual backpack, if not a con?) as much as they want.
First i wanted to say thanks Scott for putting this in the lime light. But I want to make a few points to others here about the game, its publisher and its so called developers.
Scott hit the nail on the head with how GP does business, its not only disconnected from its playerbase but they just dont give a rats ass how they make their money, period! This is the first game thats gotten them so much bad press they may never recover from it as they have been getting away with this type of pricing throughout all their games. Can they change? Sure, they need to fire a hell of a lot of people there starting with the CM who I assume is part of the marketing team due to the recent PR posts to the community. Then I would move over to the marketing team as well as management. Replace them with people who understand the industry and who play games themselves! The GMs I feel in this game are the only ones who has went to bat for us, the community, but they have little power to change anything.
As for Astrum Nival, Astrum Nival is no more! Nival is the true developer of this game and for whatever reasons had struck a deal with Astrum entertainment to help move the game forward. The company was then titled Astrum Nival. Mail.ru comes along and buys up Astrum Nival. On Nivals main site they say they had MINORITY INTER$EST in Astrum Nival which was soon taken out of the about page to the left on their site entirely, and then they posted today that Mail.RU owns 100% of Astrum Nival. From my understanding Mail.RU is a pretty greedy company.
Nival it seems has disconnected themselves from Mail.RU and is working on a new title called Prime World, a MMORTS. Now with Mail.RU at the helm they are killing the game as fast as it was made, maybe even faster! The patch notes released for Allods in RU (v1.6 and 1.7) is a death note! Do a little snooping and you will see how Mail.RU is destroying what could have been one of the best F2Ps on this planet to date! I think GP knows this game is sinking and they were trying to make as much off the game as possible before it sinks, but it backfired and now a lot of people are not only boycotting the CS theyre boycotting the game entirely! GP is to blame for the outrageous prices but lets not forget whose actually killing the game, and thats Mail.RU!
Funny how the mmo community ruin there own game genre.
I realy can't believe people pay so much money for items or try be competetive in end game.
This whole item shop wont last long becouse there will always be guys who just can pay alot and win always, those who can't pay alot eventuall stop playing.
A mmo can't continuing with few who spent alot.
PLus there is no achievement in this you just cheat by buying yourself to top lol, and sure its maybe legit but its just replacement for cheating now developer gets money instead of gold/itemfarmer sites.
MMO genre is going down the drain and its players who couse this:(
Refuse itemshops dont play mmo's with items shops problem solved.
Good article. I think this sort of business model preys on the bewildered. I could see someone with acute mental disability spending himself/herself into crippling debt with cash shops this overpriced.
$7000 is just plain out of line with what the market will bear and with player expectations when they go to an item mall.
I spend $20-40 a month playing Jade Dynasty, which has already been mentioned. I balked at wedding packs being $30 and one of the new mounts being $50. But I got the wedding pack I wanted from a 50 CENT random lotto box and I don't need to ride a goldfish really. I generally buy cash shop items from other players with in-game gold. Jade Dynasty lets players sell cash shop currency for game currency if you have a lot more time than money. I don't PvP much and I don't need to keep up with anybody else, so YMMV when it comes to how much you spend.
If I were going to fault JD for anything, it would be that you don't really need to spend anything til level 90 and then the game changes radically and you pretty much either have to spend real money, grind out huge amounts of in-game cash to buy cash shop stuff, or gtfo. I think that may be pretty common among "free" games though. They get you hooked and then they reel in your wallet.
But to get back on topic, $50 for a mount is a far cry from $7000 for anything, and I don't think I'm the only one who thinks $50 is too much for any one item. A hugely priced item mall is just a quick way to drive away customers and give a company a bad reputation that will hurt it in the long run, even beyond that one game.
In my limited experience, subscription games are cheaper.
Nice reading, thanks.
well i have based an opinion about this in my blog and any who are willing to read are welcome to do so and comment on it
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/joker007mo
yea cut and paste cant seem to get it to link oh well
The thing to do is play on the Russian servers. Prices on the whole are Ok there.
DDO proved their point that cash shops can be effective... But they didn't sell any stuff that really unballanced the game or made you much more powerfull, their prices where allready to high for me...
But this will meen the end of free gaming and even $15 subscriptions, if people give intoo the slowly rising prices of item shops, soon every MMO will be free and require you to buy atleast for $50 a month to be competitive..
So we all need to ban itemshops, we need to show developers that we don't want item shops and either don't buy from them or return to WoW and start spamming Blizzard over those evil goldspammers again.
I do not think there should be an all-out ban on cash/item shops in games like Allods or DDO. What we as players need to do, however, is support the ones (like DDO) that seem to have a good model and avoid the ones (Allods, currently) that do not.
Like others have said, if players will pay there is nothing to stop the developers from continuing down the wrong path. If the reasonable games get the majority of the players, though, market forces should help us and developers will start using the model that works. Just look at how it is the successful game/movie/etc that gets copied over and over. Does not mean all the copies we get will be any good, but the few that are will tend to rise over the rest and evolution can continue.
Removing the shops as an option at all is not the way to go. More variety is a good thing. We just need to step up and let them know what we will support and what we will not. (And yes, the current outcry over Allods is a start on this, but it actually needs to impact the game's bottom line for the "ones who make the decisions" to notice.)
Prices maybe "OK" but they have now killed the game with the current patch. You will not WANT to buy anything but rather NEED to buy almost everything if you plan to play this game after level 20 to cap! Do some research and see what the new patch has done to the game to make it even more CS dependent than ever! Russian prices are great if you live outside of Russia, but try to afford this game working in Russia on a russian salary, almost impossible. The servers there has lost 50% pop now and declining (http://www.allods.ru/ scroll down while looking at right hand side of screen, youll see the servers list), which says something about the game as a whole since the new patch hit.
You know perhaps this is a sign of the costs involved in making Allods. It is the most expensive free to play MMO made to date and that have to make that money back somewhere.
When people talk about how profitable micro transactions are, they are usually because the games using them are made with really small budgets. The bigger the budget, the less viable the business model is, and Allods large ($12mil) budget means they have a lot of money to make back.
I appreciate they should be making a fair of this back from the native version, but I'm sure gPotato paid a hefty amount for the NA & EU licenses for the game.
This is capitalism comrade! Too bad it's not still the Soviet Union... then, in the finest traditions of Marxist Leninism, not only would it be free to play... of course only the Communist Party elite would have computers, and no one would have any personal freedom or civil liberties, but it'd be free to play...
What can he say?
Its obvious that they mishandled the item shop.
Its same question like if SWTOR would come out and ask 50$ sub.
What would P2P advocates say ?
12 million is nothing for today game production. Heck i work in internet company that produces a certain plugin. And i am sure the team costs the few million dollars annually.
And in return they make around 9 million annually. And its way way smaller operation than MMO.
Allods is so good, it could easily have 4-5 million players. They could return investment in a year, even if 25% buy 1$ item monthly.
Funny, I thought this article was, from start to finish, a perfect counterpoint to Aioshi's "MMO snob" article.
I'm sure we'll hear what Mr Aioshi thinks in due course, if gPotato "fix" their pricing, he'll write another article decrying people "grossly overreacting" to a "temporary anomaly" in the world of F2P....
...or maybe I'm just too cynical for my own good.
"No Such Thing as a FREE Lunch"
Those words had better stick for some people who thing FTP = No cost.
"Time is money"
Is absolutely crazy for anyone to think that someone will invest truck loads of time with no pay out in the end. MMOs are not cheap.. these are not MUDs built with a few buddies in a basement PC somewhere.. they take big bucks.
But $7k... wow... that was really testing the limits of "How stupid are our players"
Its a sign of the times... MMO stakeholders (they guys who poney up the dough to pay for the time to make the game exist) are feeling out what they can get away with and what they cannot.
This article is a perfect example of "What in Gods name where you thinking" when they introduce items at astronomical prices... RIGHT out of the gate!
1 Stupid Player does not = XXX stupid players. And yes, its stupid to spend that much on a game, its stupid to run up micro-transactions and not pay the rent on your apartment or steal from someone else to feed a gaming habit.
Players are angry enough that traditional 'subscription fee' based P2P games are now adding HIGHER QUALITY content exclusively via 'extra' items shops (or lottery side-games like SWG). 'Good quality' subscription content AUTOMATICALLY gets cut back to 'low qualty' content changes to encourage players to buy the 'cool' (but additional cost) extra items.
When expansions cost $50 ~ $80 bucks.. once every three or so months.. in addition to subscriptions.. it was manageable. But adding $5 ~ $20 items, some vital, most exclusive, that require steady purchases every month or so of 5 to 10 transactions... well.. you do the math.
The player push-back is growing... the MMO genre is at risk of getting a really terrible reputation on both ends.
It will be interesting to watch what happens next... as the drama unfolds.
Ps. I used a few too many Cliches in my reply I suppose.. but cliche is supposed to be well known... just like Common Sense is supposed to be Common. $7k item...
What can he say?
Its obvious that they mishandled the item shop.
Its same question like if SWTOR would come out and ask 50$ sub.
What would P2P advocates say ?
$50 sub if you play 3 night a week is a bargain for a good game. Most of my friends spend that on a single night out.
Microtransactions are a sad enditement of pure greed, these developers will get what they deserve. No return.
Something like a backpack seems like a 1 time buy, you buy the backpack and now you always have more storage. So a high price seems to make sense for such a thing.
The problem with cash shops is they are there to get the most out of a player as possible. So over time as players get more used to cash shops, the prices will creep up. This will ensure players stay used to cash shops and continually get used to paying more and more. Allods just jumped the gun. Also the $1 for a boost to maximum for 30 minutes equivalent item seems fairly priced. The only thing crazy was obviously $7000 item. Sadly we know that there are people out there who reguarly buy virtual items through other people for real money in the thousands of dollars. And it's always been that way. Back in the day there were Asheron's Call items that sold for 5-10 thousand on e-bay. This was clearly the thinking behind this companies attempt at that item.
This is why I'm happy in my, I only play sub mmos mentality.
What can one say, it's Get Rich QUICK!.. Sell Sell Sell, you have to think of a group of russian's men (could be mafia controlled) that made the game and now they want all your money.. The game is very well made but you still have to consider the cost to run these games.. Especially from Russia..
Enjoy the game free and if you don't wanna spend your hard earned money, don't.. KISS FX.. "Keep is Simple Stupid"
$7,000 is pocket change. A space station in Entropia Universe went for $330,000... Now thats insane ^^
www.onlinemassivelymultiplayer.com/mmo-news/entropia-universe-crystal-palace-space-station-in-planet-calypso-sells-for-330000/
I have no problems with Micro-transactions, these nickel and dime charges for stuff that can make your game fun, and not have to sell your first born to pay for it, it is just a game, entertainment.. DDO, Crytpic C-Store, no biggie, gtators seems be out of touch whitht he economy, or something... to much vodka maybe LOL
As soon as I see a company pull a stunt like this, I lose all confidence. Now I don't care what they do. The fact that they tried to be this greedy tells me all I need to know about this company.
Its just me the only person who doesnt spent money on F2P games?
Maybe im just a "kid" as the author said but , still... Its free ; i just play for fun , when i have to play in order to have fun , the game is over for me...
Allods online looks great and till now ,im having lots of fun. I plan to play as long as i find fun on it but i would never buy something i will never have (for example :digital copies of a game, items on a game and so on) but is just my personal point of view...
Have a great day ppl :)
PD : Soz for my english!
Exactly. I was tempted to try Allods, just as a mess around game since it looked somewhat similar to TCOS. I however will not be trying this game now, or any game by Gpotato. They rank right up there with Aeria Games, Vestgame, and Perfect World Entertainment now.
I'm not in favor of item malls with the exception of perhaps vanity items. I believe that if your gear etc is not something you obtained in-game then what is the point? To me I see no difference in buying that cool sword on the item mall than buying gold from the gold farmers who continuallly spam our chat channels.
So the other guy has a cool sword because his mom forks out a few bucks just to keep the sniveling baddie quiet? What good is that? He didn't earn it. And now, the baddie has an advantage over others unless they fork over some cash to buy that sword too, until the new and improved one is released (repeat).
Now, OPTIONAL purchases for vanity items such as pets or maybe even player housing would be ok. None of that is game breaking or gives a player an advantage over another because of mom's pocketbook. It is the "required" items that you need to compete that I dislike.
Not game breaking for you, perhaps.
But what about the people who enjoy that kind of content? There are players whose enjoyment comes from obtaining vanity items, crafting or collecting items to put in their houses, etc... and they enjoy doing all that via actual gameplay as well. While you're out questing for that new sword, they're out questing for something new to put in their house. Their source of entertainment is as valid as anyone else's, especially if it's designed into the game.
In a flat-fee sub-based MMO, all of that "fluff" content would be as available to them as the armor and weapons and such would be. Neither group would have to pay any extra, nor should they.
Why is it "okay" to charge for content that one portion of players enjoy... but not okay to charge for another? That's basically saying "I don't mind if they charge $$$ for content in an Item Shop... as long as it's nothing I deem important".
This kinda reminds me of a skit George Carlin did about prisons where he noted how many will agree that prisons are important and more need to be built... "but not in *my* backyard!". Same principle here. As long as it's an inconvenience to someone else, and not them, it's perfectly acceptable. I call that hypocrisy.
When you're addressing a situation like this, you have to remember that there are many different playstyles and that others will find enjoyment or value in things that you, I or that guy over there wouldn't. They are no less entitled to the content they enjoy than we are to ours.
I currently play the game Grand Fantasia by Aeria Games Entertainment and have extensive experience regarding their cash shop, heck I have extensive experience with cash shop from multiple game publishers (perfect world, ncsoft, blizzard, gpotato, etc.) I must say the article is correct, if you want to do microtransaction correctly keep the prices low (after all it's micro meaning small transactions) and introduce a lot of vanity items that does not influence gameplay too heavily but instead provide players who bought them a little something extra. It seems silly for gpotato to overprice the cash shop items so harshly in allods online.
Rofl 7k to buy something in an item mall. I am like wow, that just proves my point about being nickled and dimed to death.
No wonder us westerners as we are called dont like that model, we can see right through the BS. However I think everybody else can see it too when you put a 7k pricetag on something. I think I read somewhere if you wanted to have an uber pimped out toon the estimate was 42k in that game.
Rofl folks can keep souting the ftp stuff all they want, it is not happening for me.
FREE2PLAY is a viable business model because it works. Instead of paying a regular subscription fee you only pay whatever you can afford even if you don't play the game for months you aren't wasting your money like what would happen if you are in a pay to play business model (so if you pay $15 bucks and only play 10 days a month that's a lot of "wasted" money).
Just FYI, EQ2 recently added several large storgage backpacks on their Station Cash Marketplace as well. They are nowhere near the price Allods charges, but available to those who pay.
Just FYI, EQ2 recently added several large storgage backpacks on their Station Cash Marketplace as well. They are nowhere near the price Allods charges, but available to those who pay.
Meh... SOE.
The company who claimed to be "protecting" their players from "RMT fraud" by introducing Station Exchange, while doing nothing to stop the "illegal RMT" they claimed to be fighting.
You can still at least get larger bags purely in-game though right? They haven't removed those, I'd hope.
Meh... SOE.
The company who claimed to be "protecting" their players from "RMT fraud" by introducing Station Exchange, while doing nothing to stop the "illegal RMT" they claimed to be fighting.
You can still at least get larger bags purely in-game though right? They haven't removed those, I'd hope.
I can make large bags and do so on a daily basis, I checked and they have a frostfeild and siniseter with 44 slots, i can craft you a sandalwood that holds 32 slots and a drong hide one that contains that 200sc when you can craft almost as good i cant see it.
Meh... SOE.
The company who claimed to be "protecting" their players from "RMT fraud" by introducing Station Exchange, while doing nothing to stop the "illegal RMT" they claimed to be fighting.
You can still at least get larger bags purely in-game though right? They haven't removed those, I'd hope.
They are both the of the Frostfell packs (44 slots). Same size as ones you can make in game.
I was wrong about the price though....the packs are .....$20 each. (2,000 Station Cash)
Crazy times in the MMO world.
Meh... SOE.
The company who claimed to be "protecting" their players from "RMT fraud" by introducing Station Exchange, while doing nothing to stop the "illegal RMT" they claimed to be fighting.
You can still at least get larger bags purely in-game though right? They haven't removed those, I'd hope.
They are both the of the Frostfell packs (44 slots). Same size as ones you can make in game.
I was wrong about the price though....the packs are .....$20 each.
Crazy times in the MMO world.
Hey, SOE is breaking records here, guess they don't feel good with Cryptic and GPotato stealing all spotlight hate.
They probably saw the $20 bags in Allods, all the heat it generated and thought "hey, we should do that too, they're too busy bashing Allods to even care about us doing that on top of a monthly subscription, we already have a lot of things on top of it anyway!".
Impulse buy = 7k USD... lol
Another death to just another MMO.
It seems like the genre is really begging to be put down....
Cash shop games are also known as "pay-2-win". Personal skill is completely irrelevant in such games, as the person with the largest pocketbook will always have the upper hand. In a PvE game, this isn't a big deal, but this type of business model utterly ruins PvP based games.
If your game is so simple that victory can be macro'd or bought, why would I want to play it?
Preach on Preacher!
This industry suffers more player to company disconnects than this in a plethora of other areas, for sure. On topic, it's actions like these that many who opposed Item shops were citing as a big worry about this so-called business model. Many stood around and said those folks were crazy but, lo and behold, it happened in an extremely overt manner (most companies just try to subtly ratchet up here and there) such that it is a major headliner.
$50 sub if you play 3 night a week is a bargain for a good game. Most of my friends spend that on a single night out.
Microtransactions are a sad enditement of pure greed, these developers will get what they deserve. No return.
And there are plenty of things you can go out and do that don't cost any money! It's a moot point. You don't advertise your games to children and then put up 7 grand items. MMos cost money, bandwidth costs money, but neither cost anywhere near the amount of money that is implied with these prices. Mmos started out as a profitable niche genre... now someone has it in their heads that we should pay more for less and like it. There is no justification for virtual items that cost NOTHING TO PRODUCE being priced at several thousand dollars.
K - been reading up on this issue...
PPL are paying those insane prices for perfumes in this game. Im sorry but maybe the devs could have found a bit more manly name for aparent MUST item in the game...
Im not using perfume !!! Whatever the freaking price !!
You know, pretty much any business model works with the mmo genre. They practically sell themselves and cost very little to maintain. Offer a little e-fame and accomplishment and you've hooked into a very primitive part of the human brain.There are literally hundreds of mmos out there and I can name less than 5 that have ever "died". The fact is, companies are getting greedy. They think they see money that just isn't there.
You are fooling yourself if you really think f2p gives the consumer better options. In the last f2p game I played, pretty much every item I bought was on a timer, specifically a 30 day timer. Wow, just like a subscription mmo... The fact is, we are all paying for content for these games -directly and indirectly- but only some of us get to experience it. We need to come up with some new , more accurate terminology, there is nothing free about "f2p".
I'd say you shouldn't ever *try* to compete in a Cash-Shop game. If I really want to compete, that means i'll be playing the game a lot. And if i'm willing to play a lot, i'm also willing to pay a subscription fee.
I play f2p either when i'm not sure about how much time i can dedicate to gaming in a certain period, or when i want to play with my gf and/or a couple friends that are not so much into MMOs and wouldn't pay a monthly fee for a game.
A lot of wasted money? Really?
$15 per month is peanuts, especially considering you can easily spend more than that on only a few item mall items in a single purchase.
I mean, if you prefer MTs over subs, that's fine... but to talk about $15 a month as though it's a lot of money is kinda... odd.
Even if you play, say.. 2 hours, 3 nights a week, in a typical 4 week month. That's 24 hours for the month total. You're paying about 62 cents per hour. That's cheap. You can barely buy a can of soda for that in most cases, and a can of soda won't last you an hour, unless you seriously nurse it. In a five week month, that's 30 hours at exactly 50 cents an hour.
Now look at the person who plays more actively... let's say... 3 hours a night, 5 nights a week. That's 60 hours at 25 cents an hour.
People who play *a lot*, like say 4 hours a night, 7 days a week... 112 hours a month at 13 cents per hour.
If it's the "$15 in one lump sum" that bothers someone, then maybe I can understand that, though last I heard, item malls don't let you "finance" your purchases either. But to complain about subs as "a lot of wasted money" if you can't play every day or whatever is kinda pushing it.
There are two approaches in retail: margin dollars and margin percent. The first approach takes a dollar from a million players to get rich. The second takes twenty dollars from 25,000 players.
Do you get as rich from margin %? No. Do you get rich? Yes.
I'll play the Russian's game. I love their books. And Allods pvp looks awful swell.
They need to take a course in basic economic.
Being greedy and smart will make you money. Greedy and stupid produces failure.
The is a very simple economic model. Its supply and demand where you have infinite supply with 0 incremental cost. To maximize profit, you don't just maximize the price, you maximize <price>x<units sold>. As long as cutting the price in half will more than double unit sales, you make more profit by reducing prices.
Finally, if you want happy players, you error on the side of the price being too low, not too high.
Especially considering that the "product" being sold through teh item shops, is virtual, and costs nothing to produce. its not a tangible limited resource that takes time and materials to be available. They could charge $5 for the $7k item, and would still be making a profit (especially since at $5 they would easily sell hundreds, if not thousands of that item).
It's because of greedy idiots like this this that FTP has a bad name.
The sad part is that there are plenty of FTP games out there that are not greedy like this, have good games, with reasonable priced items but are lumped with these jackasses.
Let the game crash and burn, I say.
You dont fail at Russian MMO, Russian MMO fails you!
Even if they lower the prices to sane levels, how could this company be trusted not to jack it at leisure in some near future. They've pretty much destroyed the trust their community had in them, and I am not sure there is a lot of room for recovery from that.
I've repeated basically what's been said.
I'm a huge fan of item shops. On Maple Story alone I spent $200 in one month on plastic surgery, clothing items and hair change items.
Item shops should just be that. Little trinkets that let the players make their characters unique. They should not offer items like bags, or mounts, or things that are pretty much mandatory to enjoy the game.
It really feels like Free to Play is going down a bad road....
They say adjustments can not happen overnight, but isn't that pretty much exactly how patches work? I mean, it went from no item shop to item shop overnight, what effort could it take to change prices? The Russian prices seem fair enough - $700 for the Uber gear, just like that, without the inconvenience of raiding and such.
The bag can be gotten out of a quest, not sure on the specifics, but I know the bag can be gotten in-game.
That's how all item shops should be - the game itself will take a while longer, but if you don't have much time, but plenty of spare cash, you can play with other people who do happen to have all that time and money.
Better yet, I like EVE's system of PLEX, trading between players and such, in forms of subscription payments. It's a nice system.
I think people relate F2P ONLY to the item malls,there is actually a much larger blemish on this design.
The problem is this design does NOTHING to control cheating/exploiting/RMT community,because players have absolutely NOTHING to fear.It costs players nothing to play,so what if they get banned,they can act like total asshats,again nothing to lose.if they get caught botting who cares?you going to ban them lol?
Once the RMT decide to take up residence look at games like Silkroad or Cabal or many other F2P,you can't even login because the bots have the servers over crowded and they also use cheats to bypass server crowding,so it gets worse and lags.
Just imagine that if these cheap F2P games were running good graphics,high poly count,with all the bots running around,they could really lag the servers terribly,it is only because the graphics are ALWAYS so cheap/low end that the games survive at all.If these exact same games ran something like Vanguard ,NOBODY would be able to play it.
What else is comical is that the majority of people that play these games have no intention of supporting the game and many CANNOT because they have no CC or way to support the game.Once again the few people that actually pay money to support these games,could NEVER maintain the server,it is only because of the extremely low bandwidth these games operate under.SO because this design has so many flaws in it's design,you will NEVER have a good looking complete game,not unless you are totally blind and think crap graphics look good.
There ain't no disconnect, they know exactly what they're trying to pull.
$700.00 for an entry in a database that can be negated or wiped out entirely on a whim or glitch? My Grandparents would rise from the grave and beat me to death with the jawbone of an ass if I ever wasted money like that. Fair? I've worked 80 hour weeks like a slave while in mortal peril for less than that. If my kids spent money like that I'd have them institutionalized. $700.00 will buy you enough smack to put a smile of eternal bliss on the face of every junkie in a shooting gallery, permanently. That's just nucking futz. $70.00 would be ten times too much.
$700.00 for an entry in a database that can be negated or wiped out entirely on a whim or glitch? My Grandparents would rise from the grave and beat me to death with the jawbone of an ass if I ever wasted money like that. Fair? I've worked 80 hour weeks like a slave while in mortal peril for less than that. If my kids spent money like that I'd have them institutionalized. $700.00 will buy you enough smack to put a smile of eternal bliss on the face of every junkie in a shooting gallery, permanently. That's just nucking futz. $70.00 would be ten times too much.
This guy needs his own show, seriously. Like Colbert or something. Haha. I agree, though. $700 isn't fair. That's ridiculous and anyone who pays that has a serious problem. Reminds me of my buddy who traded his car for 2 Magic the Gathering cards.
Very true. There is no disconnect between gPotato and their customers (suckers). This company has a very long history of underhanded moves. How many of you know that all gPotato games install software that tracks your browsing habits? Look up “iesnare” for yourself. I found it a couple of years ago when I tried out one of their games. Bye Bye gPotato. I do not even want to guess how much money gPotato makes off of iesnare.
Then there is xTrap. Such programming should be a crime. I have no problems with the goal but shoot, even keyboard or mouse drivers can set it off. Unless of course you are using IE 7 or 8 on a 64bit OS in which case, it just won’t work at all.
Honestly, I think that the item shop is another slap in the face after all, most Americans did not notice that they had already been slapped by gPotato. As for the question someone asked about how dumb they think Americans are, I think iesnare’s background installation says volumes.
somebody confused Yen with $
I ... had ... no ... idea. o.O
It is worth that for me??? I wouldn't even spent as much on a real life hobby thing for three month!
Played Allods CB and currently playing OB. They have a great game here but Greed concerning their players...no thanks.
Most gamers arn't guallible fools and will not continue to pay insane prices just to play a game. The phrase "Great game but I cannot afford to compete" will be in the minds of many allods fans if they dont quickly get their prcing down from greedy to affordable.
20 euros for a backpack, no thanks make it 2 euros and if they get a million subscribers all buying 1 bag that will be 2 millon euros right there.
I for one am having a great time in the EU version of allods online. The cash shop is not yet active there as I think Gpotato are still considering the pricing for it...I guess thats why so many Russian players have jumped ship and are now playing on EU servers in the hope that Gpotato will not be as self centred and as greedy as the Russian Cash shop owners.
I'm going to have to agree here. I would have thought that developers creating for the NA/EU market would have had more of an understanding of how F2P works due to the long and successful history it has had in the East, but it almost seems as if there really is some dude in a corner office with a big cigar shaking rolled up reports at his team....
Big Boss Dude: "Asia is all over this stuff! I'm seeing this corporation leaving money on the table and I don't like it one bit! Johnson, you read in the department heads on this. Williams, get me face time with one of those Eastern game CMOs. I want a cash shop in our game pronto! Rogers, what's your take on this?"
Marketing Guy that got stuck getting sent to the Scream and Ream session: *nervously* "Well, I can touch base with marketing and make sure they have the bandwidth for a viral campaign and some social networking strategies. We've got some low-hanging fruit we can capture with a bit of on-market brandstorming and site redesign to bring our web presence up to Web 2.0 standards."
Big Boss Dude: Get on it! I want to see $30 a month from every subscriber by the end of the month!
The problem here is not really the prices. The problem is how this has been handled. This will become very clear when the EU version posts their prices.
The problem here is the management for the US branch of Gala-Net. They just dont know what they are doing, and do not listen to those that do. Part of this has to do with the funding that they have accepted, and the strings attached. However, a large part has to do with their lack of understand of the service industry. They just dont know how to make this work, and despite having some very good staff (who does know) they are not listening. The EU branch doesnt have that problem... watch how they handle this.
$700.00 for an entry in a database that can be negated or wiped out entirely on a whim or glitch? My Grandparents would rise from the grave and beat me to death with the jawbone of an ass if I ever wasted money like that. Fair? I've worked 80 hour weeks like a slave while in mortal peril for less than that. If my kids spent money like that I'd have them institutionalized. $700.00 will buy you enough smack to put a smile of eternal bliss on the face of every junkie in a shooting gallery, permanently. That's just nucking futz. $70.00 would be ten times too much.
This deserves a 'Best reply-of-the-week" award for sure.
This deserves a 'Best reply-of-the-week" award for sure.
Indeed, but that is the true nature of what you get from virtual items.
It's already amazing how they manage to charge more than 1/5 of a monthly fee for a virtual item, I don't even have adjectives on how to describe charging more than a monthly fee for a virtual item, and it's not even on my imagination charging $7000 for a virtual item. That's 466 months of MMO subscription considering a $15/mo (and we all know this value can drop as low as $10 depending on the MMO for long-term subscriptions)... 38 years of a MMO subscription. There's not even a MMO that old for us to know if a MMO can live THAT long, not to mention the player interest in the game and actually being alive and capable of playing :P
sad, but true
My favoritest post so far this year.
$700.00 for an entry in a database that can be negated or wiped out entirely on a whim or glitch? My Grandparents would rise from the grave and beat me to death with the jawbone of an ass if I ever wasted money like that. Fair? I've worked 80 hour weeks like a slave while in mortal peril for less than that. If my kids spent money like that I'd have them institutionalized. $700.00 will buy you enough smack to put a smile of eternal bliss on the face of every junkie in a shooting gallery, permanently. That's just nucking futz. $70.00 would be ten times too much.
Amazing insights! May I subscribe to your newsletter?
If you think that $7,000 was nuts, you should have seen the space station in Entropia Universe that went for $330,000. That would have had all of your ancestors back to cave man times chasing you with that jaw bone. ^^
$700.00 for an entry in a database that can be negated or wiped out entirely on a whim or glitch? My Grandparents would rise from the grave and beat me to death with the jawbone of an ass if I ever wasted money like that. Fair? I've worked 80 hour weeks like a slave while in mortal peril for less than that. If my kids spent money like that I'd have them institutionalized. $700.00 will buy you enough smack to put a smile of eternal bliss on the face of every junkie in a shooting gallery, permanently. That's just nucking futz. $70.00 would be ten times too much.
Brilliant. Ditto for me. And the best part is the American price of $7000, because as every Russian game publisher knows, Americans are all cash and no brains. Or is that Westerners in general? Unfortunately, as previously mentioned, some underperforming d-bag is going to buy it, thereby justifying the price in some tiny sense. People don't seem to realize you get NOTHING for your $7000. A few bits of data and the satisfaction of knowing you've bought yourself some wins in a video game against other people who, for all intents and purposes, are better people than you (unless they bought their own, in which case they actually suck worse than you if you can believe it).
To anyone who still considers playing this game in ANY capacity after this cash shop was revealed: You are part of the problem. You cannot scream that this company is unjust and wrong to charge so much, and then support their business practices by partaking in their product. It's no different than the message pre-CU vets sent to SOE, even if it doesn't last as long or sound as vitriolic - if a company wrongs you, you cease to do business with them unless they right the wrong. No game can possibly be worth that. These publishers, who are no different than radio or TV or recording company execs, need to be made to realize that life continues for everyone even if they dry up and blow away. Their jobs are at the whim of the consumer, and the consumer is a fickle lover. The right thing to have happen now is this Mail.ru to go completely out of business. Won't happen, but it should.
I basically quit Rappels because of the whole stamina thing. If you were not springing for a tent or stamina potions, the game crawled at a snail pace.
But seriously...have an item that costs as much as a used car is a bit much.
Virtual or materialized items, is there a difference? Aslong as the results remains equal, the only difference is your beliefs. Everything is equal but not as equal as your perspective and logic.
Stop being subjective and start looking at the big picture.
Cash Shops are a gravy train. Every time a cash shop is suddenly introduced the fanboys say don’t worry, while everyone else is concerned. Every time a CS suddenly introduces high prices players react as if they have never heard of a cash shop before and rage at this outrageous event.
Most cash shops start fair, all end up selling the likes of xp potions. I challenge those who support F2P and item shops to name one MMO that has had a item shop for more than 4 years and is not now selling xp potions, uber health shields for pvp or the like.
The death penalty and need to use Perfumes in all endgame PVE content could turn out to be a disaster (IMO).
It could well reduce the number of players that do PVE endgame and there for the PVE endgame might become the a feature alot of ppl feel lacking (cause so few can play it). I personally think putting a high death penalty with mandatory Cash shop items to remove it is just stupid. And if they are gonna make those items to accessable in the game - then why the hell price the items so high in cash shop ?
Ayep.
As has been said, and I said it in an earlier post - the Allods people are doing nothing that you don't see in just about any other F2P MMO with a cash shop - only magnified to where it can't be denied or ignored. The cash shops and the games wrapped around them are designed to make people feel compelled to pull out the credit card, even if it's only to get that "little bit" of an edge.
The farther one gets into the game, the greater the stakes,the more likely they are to find them "useful" if not "necessary". That is exactly what the developers intend.
You're a bit out in left field here. First, the 'fanboys' have shown equal outrage to these prices throughout this thread. Second, the outrage isn't that there is a cash shop. It's not even really the power of the items. It's the cost of them. Since that has been a consistent issue and since it has been mostly agreed by both sides to be a seroius issue, I'm wondering if you didn't read the thread or if you just posted in the wrong one.
Item shops are the very DOOM of the MMO industry! Once they arrive, all manner of HORRORS result... Vanity pets are just the gate way to Item Shop Hell! <rolls eyes> Come on guys, one of the main objectives of this exercise is to make a good ROI(Return On Investment).
They are mainly used for the F2P games at this point(so that the Dev's can make some profit off of their invested time and money). Its just a different business model. If you don't like it, don't play games with item shops. P2P/F2P or some hybrid doesn't matter to me if the game is entertaining. I've no problem what so ever supporting games I like with my money as well as my time.
It was a REALLY *stupid* decision. I really wonder about some of the suits who come up with these types of decisions. They obviously had little, if any clue as to how the player base was going to react. Then, once the reaction triggered, they didn't immediately back down(and blame it on one of their subordinates... ^^) thats almost as stupid as their initial mistake was.
You're a bit out in left field here. First, the 'fanboys' have shown equal outrage to these prices throughout this thread. Second, the outrage isn't that there is a cash shop. It's not even really the power of the items. It's the cost of them. Since that has been a consistent issue and since it has been mostly agreed by both sides to be a seroius issue, I'm wondering if you didn't read the thread or if you just posted in the wrong one.
Some people have a knee jerk reaction to some topics. I know I tend to start frothing at the mouth when the subject of the NGE comes up...
Item shops are just a different business model. If one doesn't like them, then don't play games that have them.
im not for cash shops but if they put something worth my money and i enjoy the game then whatever
but fact is i dont pay in f2p for anything mainly because there is nothing worth paying for
i have more important things to do with my cash then buy junk for some game ill probably only play every now and again
and whats more is the price has to be in a decent range even if it is something worth it
Here's the thing until people stop paying, actually stop paying and not just doing lip service in threads like these, that includes gold selling as well. It will never stop. Ever.
As long as there is a market, it will continue. The best way to combat it is to stop being hypocrites! Obviously not everyone that posts in these types of threads are, but I would venture a good many are. That's why this crap continues and gets worse and worse as time goes on. I always picture some people in threads like these the same as a politician. They puff up there chest and talk tough about how terrible this is, then go buy a dollar item from their favorite game. It's only a buck right?
Bah, until gamers actually take action, by not buying or even populating these types of games and not just talk tough it will never stop.
I think Allods already caused irreparable damage to their name and credibility. While honorable of them to try to fix the prices... It doesn't change the fact that they initially tried to charge players outrageous prices. They knew exactly what they were doing, and I'll bet that a handful of hardcore addicts did purchase a few items. Now they will pretend to be concerned, and lower the prices for their average players. Don't even think about a refund or additional store credit for those few hardcore buyers. Robbery in my opinion. Game company's used to care about their players(customers)... Only a few company's actually do now.
Item shops are just a different business model. If one doesn't like them, then don't play games that have them.
Thats going to pretty much limit people to single player games considering its hard to find even a P2P without them now.
gPotato has enough other free-to-play games with item shops that are a hit that they shouldn't feel they have to screw everyone over with it in Allods. This is human greed at its finest. Bravo gPotato.
Thats going to pretty much limit people to single player games considering its hard to find even a P2P without them now.
If thats what happens, then thats their choice...<shrug> Then the single player games will benefit.
Many of us "old timers " saw things like this coming. Its the main reason we dont like the "scheme". Ever heard the phrase " give an inch, and they will take a mile" ? This is exactly what happens. F2P games will continue to get worse. Why do you think MMOs havent gone up in price over the 15 bucks a month in years? Because the market research shows that it wont support it. So some shmuck somewhere decided to come up with a way to "trick" you idiots into paying more. And believe me, they do consider you idiots. This game is case in point.
Regardless, I would rather quit MMO's all together than play one with an item shop. Which unfortunatly the market is dwindling.
As a last thought, 2 years from now, you people will look back and think " Hmm those prices weren't that bad"
Pfft. In a couple of years, I'll look back and say "gee, I'm glad I never played the crappy f2p mmo's... I don't like the p2p model but I understand why people go that route (I happen to know of a good MMO game that will let you go either way and it WORKS). What I don't understand is how is it hard to stop playing crappy pvp f2p mmo's? I'm a cheap basterd (sic) too, but for god's sake support the good companies. Or don't....and let the MMO turn into something no one wants around.
Been playing since Closed beta and this company just doesn't have a clue how to run an MMO. They had so much hype and the game is very good, but they are letting their game goto hell. Cash shop is just one of many issues with the game. They could take the cash shop down while they try and fix prices, but their greedy arses. They are going to milk the game till it is ran into the ground and that time is coming with an upcoming patch. This patch is going to change the game in a lot more bad ways and then even more people are going to leave. On top of it all now we have no GMs on the forums or in game and people are botting as well as gold sellers have gone in game and are spamming cities.
Gpotato and NA have destroyed their game with poor business decisions and design. This game COULD have been the best Free to play game out there, but they hosed it themselves. Now, the damage is done and people are leaving in droves. I watch the forums and twitter and even their employees are at a loss on what to do and some even feel others on their team have abandoned and betrayed them.
It's a real shame, but maybe someday someone will buy this game and re-release it without NA or Gpotato being involved and messing it up.
The saddest part of all this affair is the market does not want fair F2P games.
Look at how Allods is designed from ground up (and the death penalty and removal are far from an afterthough) - as a game with large PvP component and required purchases - but with rather reasonable costs and not major imballances. It tries hard to push people into cash shop but keeps the PvP competition interesting.
The end result?
1) Players rage because they demand free game to be totally free, at any cost.
2) Publisher does not care about masses, instead fishes for victims that would pay anything for their dose.
Allods is a waste of good game for such market, because none really cares about the game, it is all about cash shop - or evading it.
I really really rarely post here.
But .. as i read the article i couldnt stop laughing.
On the other hand, good plan. Now they go and cut the prices by maybe .. say 50% and claim
"Were grateful ... now the cash shop items are all aviable at a 50% discount !! Were good to our fans"
The buzz they cause around their game is great. They get all the attention.
I wonder if that wasnt the plan in the first place. Creating a giant bombshell, drop it on the audience, watch even more ppl flock by to watch the outcome. Then after you have all the Attention drop back to more realistic rates and get the benefit of "hey they listened to us, they must be a good company".
Ala: Theres no bad press.
Ok maybe im a bit on the "evil conspiracy" trip. But i have a very very hard time to beliefe that they diddnt know the market and also diddnt had a closer look at all the other cash shops out there and the going rates. It was absolutely clear that such a high price sheme wouldnt work.
But... i still cant stop laughing
Maybe im just a "kid" as the author said but , still... Its free ; i just play for fun , when i have to play in order to have fun , the game is over for me...
Allods online looks great and till now ,im having lots of fun. I plan to play as long as i find fun on it but i would never buy something i will never have (for example :digital copies of a game, items on a game and so on) but is just my personal point of view...
Well, indeed, have fun, the game is over when you hit "Holy Land" allod - that means plain PvP at lvl 25, Fear of death 2 minutes - and you can finnaly realise the P2W recipe (been there, done that).
I wonder if that wasnt the plan in the first place. Creating a giant bombshell, drop it on the audience, watch even more ppl flock by to watch the outcome. Then after you have all the Attention drop back to more realistic rates and get the benefit of "hey they listened to us, they must be a good company".
Played from CB1 and the hype level was above 9. In OB, after Fear of Death & CS is 7.75... I hope their Cypress (safety device assisting the opening of a parachute) is functioning OK, freefall can result in serious damage...:)
Well it pretty much falls on every single person who spends money in cash shops. You buy items they see this add new stuff with a higher price and what happens? You buy it. This is why I will only play P2P games I get all the content for $15 a month rather then the same price for 1 item that will expire in 30 days. So you want to complain guess what look in the mirror and complain to the person in the mirror(if you buy from the item shop). It's not only Allods that try to OVERCHARGE their players every single F2P game does I have checked many games cash shops and if they use their own currency then I compare and well I have yet to find anything at a fair price. If these F2P games want to make money over a longer period rather then making a quick buck and having the game die then don't charge $2 for an item that should be only $.25.
There seems to be two sides to F2P. One side that ardently flames the other for playing F2P and another side that is busy happily playing the games, often far from the circle jerk of hatred.
Many of us "old timers " saw things like this coming. Its the main reason we dont like the "scheme". Ever heard the phrase " give an inch, and they will take a mile" ? This is exactly what happens. - an old timer
Is it at all possible that both research and history have shown that most gamers prefer the F2P model, for one reason or another, and that is why the developers have started going that route?
Now, here's the next question for you: If you feel it's possible, do you feel it may be probable?
That was good for a nice Sat evening chuckle before closing the browser and heading out. Thank you! :)
It surprises me how many players claim that F2P game are really more expensive to play than P2P. I've played at last a dozen F2P games in the last 5 years and I doubt that I have spent more than $20 total in that time on them. Sure, people can go crazy and spend stupifying amount in item shops, but that is their choice.
The only reason that expensive items are listed in the item shops are that some players are stupid enough to buy them. The companies watch item shop sales very closely and will make whatever adjustments are needed to promote sales. If people will stop buying the expensive items, then the companies will get the message and we will get lower priced items.
CHOICE IS BAD!!!
I'm kidding. :)
Been playing Dragonica, Combat Arms, Florensia and a few other F2P MMOs for a while now. All told I probably have spent a total of 35-40 USD over the past year. It would cost that much just for the first month of most subscription MMOs.
35 to 40 dollars spent on several MMO’s. 5, maybe 10 dollars on each MMO a year, not such a great revenue model then is it? Yet F2P and cash shops are hailed as the saviour of MMO finances, laughable.
Yet equally I have seen threads and posts from people who have been taken for a ride and spent a fortune. Cash Shops are an uneven source of income for a MMO and an unfair one for players.
I should point out that this post is looking at the wider implications of item shops as I was questioned as to whether I had read the thread. :)
It surprises me how many players claim that F2P game are really more expensive to play than P2P. I've played at last a dozen F2P games in the last 5 years and I doubt that I have spent more than $20 total in that time on them.
Played - as in "spent hours upon hours to grind out level 2"?
Such activities... are not very exciting or relaxing.
Way too greedy, prices are laughable, I'd never spend money for ingame items that are used for core features, I wouldn't play a game that condones such gameplay. Sure pets and deluxe special fun items, I might slip a dollar, or 5. Even 10 dollars for additional content (membership). But 20 for a Backpack that in most mmos should be in an ingame vendor. Sorry but no. $7000 for a rune that upgrades armor, what a joke!
Hardly unprofitable, or it wouldn't make up the majority of the business model in the Asian markets. I have no problems paying for games I enjoy. P2P, F2P or some hybrid, as long as they are fun I really do not care. As for "unfair", if the same choices are available to everyone, thats hardly unfair. It all depends on how things are applied.
I quite agree in this context, There seems to be a BIG disconnect between the people setting the prices, and anyone who has experience with western player demographics. It was entertaining listening to the pod cast of the Gpotato rep dancing around the various questions about this. ^^ But they did admit that as it is currently set up Fear Of Death(at higher levels) is going to cost $50 a month or more. Thats the kiss of death for these types of games.
I've found that F2P games are usually as easy to start out in as P2P games and in some cases better. After level 20, it tends to spread out more, with games like WoW still being easy to level and others like Istaria and Vanguard taking a lot longer. F2P games have a similar diversity and this is probably where some players rely on the item shop to speed things up.
For me, the game is about the journey, not a rush to max level, so I never buy items to speed up leveling.
This article is top notch Scott Jennings you rock. I'm currently playing Allods Online i tested the game now playing and everything in the article is exactly the views of the players...
Thanks for actually taking the time to write this article.
This is all part of the business model. You start out with some way overpriced initial shock period. People get all upset, and say ''OMG THERES NO WAY ILL PAY THAT MUCH!!!11234"
Then they lower the prices, and people feel like they are getting over on the system because now prices are way lower. When in fact, they are higher than they would have been form the start.
Heres an example. Lets say a backpack is worth 2 bucks to the avergae player. At 2 bucks the avergage player will pay for it, get good use out of it, and feel they are getting a good deal.
Now, the company can come out from the start and charge 2 bucks for it, turn a small profit and be done.
Or....
They can initially release the backpack as 20 dollars. People scream OUTRAGE!!! So then they lower the price of backpacks to 5 dollars!
You feel like this backpack, which is actually way overpriced, is underpriced. You feel like your getting a bargain, because its now only 1/4 the PRICE! Thats a 75% Markdown YaY!!!! Celebrate, BUy More now!!!!1
If they had originaly released backpacks at 5 bucks, people would have been upset. They would have sat at their screens and thought about it"Dangt, 5 bucks, thats alot for this stupid backpack...." Some would have bought it, but alot would not.
Now, after their initial shock period, and then subsequent "We hear you!!! We are slashiing prices on EVERYTHGING In stock!!!!"
You see 5 bucks, you know thats way WAY under the 20 bucks it cost last week, you buy more now!
The question isnt about all these cheap business model tactics. The real question is "Will gamers stand for the F2P Business model at all."
Irregardless of prices and tweaks, and models, and whatever.
Will players stand for the entire scheme at all.
I for one am putting my foot down and stearing COMPLETELY clear of anythign and everything with a F2P label on it.
Im not going to get suckered into playing a game that has an OPEN fee model.
Would you buy a car that allowed the company you bought it from randomly charge you ANYTHING they want as your driving it around? Ltes say you buy a car from Honda. And its a F2D car. You can drive it for free. But then the company can charge you whatever they want for anythign they want later. So your driving along, and its hot and you go to turn the AC on... 20$ please... And so you pay it... 5 Minutes later... "Oh you want the AC on for more than 5 minutes? 20$ please....
Screw this ill roll down the window... Oh you want to roll down the window, we have special bargain on window rolldowns this week... 20$ please...
Oh you want to turn Left? Right turns are free this week, but turning left is 20$ please....
Its stupid. And its exactly what your getting suckered into with all this F2P nonsense. Theres nothing Free about it. Your literally walking into a situation saying "Go ahead, try and get me addicted using this electronic crack, and see how much money you can get out of my pocketses...."
What happens if you start playing, and enjoy it for a year, and have a guild, and made friends, and are ramping up for some new raid or quest story line somethign...
And they decide Lets raise prices x3. You as the gamer have ZERO power to say anythign.. AT ALL.
You cant cry ''Ill cancel my subscription!! Ill do it, dont push me!!!"
Because you dont pay any subscription. They alreayd have your money. You arent doing crap unless you DO pay their price. You arent going to ride out the month, or wait till next patch. Your done. Right then and there. You the consumer started the game with Zero power. And you paid for it all. And as soon as you decide your unhappy with your fee model, tough cookies.... Go ahead, cancel....
But its Free, omg why are you crying about somethign that is free.... Its not free. Its free to start playing the game. Thats the only thign free about it. And in essence, so is EVERY other MMORPG out there. They all have FREE 20 day subscritions. And whats more, with a subscription model i have access to the ENTIRE GAME for free for one month. With F2P you only get access to what is going to most likely hook you, addict you. Anything and everythign else, in a very psychologicaly engineered way, is going to cost you money.
Can you imagine ebing there in a situaiton where theres a raid. And the raid is failing because your tanking just isnt enough, or your heals arent enough.... But, if you had a +7 Rune of Helaing it would be enough... and those are only 47$....
Or your crafting somethign and need to make the next level of crafting, hut to do so you need a piece of Ash wood... well there is Ash Wood in the game.. it just costs 83$ from the item shop....
Its a genious thing if your a business model mmorpg development team looking for more ways to make more money of less and less product.. You get to work your magic creating these addictions in people, while at the same time theres ZERO chance of ANYONE cancelling on you... at all. If someone decides they dont want to play anymore... Fine, we already have your money. Your not soaking up server resources anymore. We win... You loose.
It reminds me of the Cell phone market. They sucker you in with this "Free" phone. Knowing that the average person will use the product impulsively. You make a transaction, spending money, without actually registering in your head that your doing it... Until the bill comes at the end of the month and you find out you just spent 800$ talking to your friends....
People are going to get suckered into the F2P soooooo badly. Just imagine how many parents are going to get Massive credit card bills, or entire bank accounts wiped out because Little Johnny needed a new set of Raiding gear, or his Pony needed food for a long journey across Mythicalland....
Its gonna get ugly folks. And until enough developers go bankrupt in the process, its only gonna get worst...
I've been playing F2P for years and have spent less than 5% of what I've spent on P2P games. Players just have to use common sense when they spend their money.
And as far as parents getting massive CC bills, any parent that would give their kid unlimited CC use is a fool. If I was going to give my child a CC to use (which I have never done), I'd make it a pre-paid card where I could recharge it, but they couldn't spend any more than was allocated to it.
Doubtful. This business model is quite standard in the eastern markets. But its going to take time for some more quality games to arrive in the western markets. People that howl and complain about F2P item shops are wasting their time and breath. Just don't play them if you object that strongly. But as time moves forward we are rather likely to see more and more games moving to that model, or to the hybrid model. Which means that there will be fewer and fewer games for such types to play. I guess they can always play single player games(shrug). Personally, I do not care what business model a game has, as long as its fun. I have no problem supporting a game with my money as well as my time, if its entertaining.