Dragon Age and MMOs
MMORPG.com's Garrett Fuller recently interviewed Dragon Age Origins Lead Designer Mike Laidlaw about the game, and its relationship to its multiplayer cousins, the MMOs.
Interviews By Garrett Fuller on November 09, 2009
For those who missed the launch of Dragon Age last week, it marked an important return for Bioware back into the world of fantasy RPG gaming. Recently, we sat down and talked to Mike Laidlaw, Lead Designer on the game and got his opinions on what MMO tools Dragon Age used to create a fun and familiar game. Mike also talked about what some MMOs can learn from Dragon Age and the plans Bioware has for the game's future.
Mike first commented on the response the game has gotten and how well it has been doing this week. Launch week is always busy, but one of the things Mike enjoys the most is seeing players go to the forums to post their own stories and experiences with the game. The response to all six different opening story lines has been very positive. Bioware is internally happy and Mike sees the players comparing their experiences as a great example of the game's depth.
Mike next talked about what elements from MMOs Dragon Age took and how they used certain tools to make the player feel comfortable in the game. Mike explained that anyone making a fantasy game in today's marketplace cannot ignore MMOs and World of Warcraft specifically. He said that you are always competing against that juggernaut. He explained that what early MMOs gave WoW was the common user interface that all players have grown accustomed to. In the same way that Quake set the stage for FPS games, WoW has standardized the interface used to play RPG games. That interface was translated into Dragon Age specifically to make the player feel comfortable with the game. This way, players can dive right into the action and feel comfortable and confident. They can then go on to experience the more in depth parts of the game like story, the world, and character development.
Another element that Dragon Age borrowed from MMOs was the idea of multiple layers of content. Mike explained that MMOs have the luxury of carrying a player through the game on different levels. The first being small solo content, simple quests and story lines that a player can do alone. The next is small group content, whether it is small dungeon raids or group quests. The third is large scale raids, giving players a huge area to work with and allowing for teamwork and guild development. He described the layers of an MMO as small, supportive, and epic. Mike pointed out the original Onyxia quest chain as a good example of this layered approach, doing solo quests and group content in order to eventually get into the epic raid portion of the dungeon. It is this type of game play that Dragon Age saw as an advantage in MMOs and looked at ways to implement those pieces into their single player game.
;)
Flipping the topic to what MMOs might learn from Dragon Age, Mike explained that he did not want to offend any of his fellow game designers. So I asked him for three areas where he felt MMOs could learn something from Dragon Age as an RPG game. The first and biggest, he said, was story. The importance of story in a game is critical and he feels it is an area where MMOs are lacking. Bioware has always kept a strong story element to all of their games. Mike said that players like guidance and having a reason to play. Strong story lines provide players with a need to go back into the game. He saw this as a better way to keep players interested than just farming for loot.
Dragon Age is very good at having the world react to the player's choices and decisions. Mike explained that the other area in which MMOs are lacking is in the ability to give players a sense of impact on the world they are in. The problem MMOs face of thousands of players having to do the same content needs to somehow be trimmed down so that the individual player can feel like they are having an impact.
The last example Mike gave of an area where MMOs could learn from Dragon Age was in the sharing of the experience. He said that MMOs are very lucky to be able to give players an area to build and create their own fun. He hoped to see more MMOs have mechanics in the future to give players a chance to build and share their own stories. Bioware has always held true to the story element in games, MMOs can definitely benefit from that aspect. I asked Mike if this is any indicator on what we can expect from Star Wars: The Old Republic, he just laughed.
It was impossible not to ask Mike about the work on Star Wars at the other Bioware studio, so I asked if now that Dragon Age has launched will any developers be going down to Austin to work on Star Wars. He said that the two teams are pretty distinct and that the Dragon Age team has a role in continuing the franchise. They have a two year content plan for the game with lots more patches and journeys planned for players to experience. Mike did say that now with having both Bioware and Mythic as part of the EA family it is a great environment to share ideas. All of the teams look for lessons they can learn from each other with Dragon Age, Mythic, Mass Effect 2, and the Star Wars teams all under the same umbrella.
;)
Mike said that players can expect a lot of exciting stuff from Dragon Age in the coming months. The team has a great history and passionate world builders and hopes to deliver much more in upcoming patches. He said that David Gaider, the lead writer on the game, lives his life as a full time Dungeon Master which is great for the team. In creating Dragon Age they wanted to make a darker fantasy game that gave players tough choices to work out. The writers looked at things like the idea of using or abusing power and racism among the elves, dwarves, and humans. They wanted tough issues that never really got to this depth in previous fantasy titles. To illustrate, Mike used the example of the first level Dungeons & Dragons spell Charm Person as a way to show that Mages can really trick people into doing anything they want very early on in their development. He said the team laughed about that asking, does anyone else find that a little creepy? As a result, they created the Templar class to keep the mages in check when building the world. Mike pointed out the attitude toward elves and the dwarf cast system as some of the darker story elements in the game.
The other area that Mike said the team worked very hard on was the strong characterizations. They wanted the Grey Wardens to be a group that was not necessarily good or evil, but more about getting things done against the Blight. Mike said that the stories about the world and what happens during the Blight are very interesting. It is not just Tolkien where everyone unites against Sauron. In this world, there are back stabbings and factions trying to take power even as the Blight threatens to destroy all of the races. Mike said it was these story elements plus the combat team's achievement in the fighting that he liked the most about the game. In combat there is more than just one way to win. Players have a lot of choices and ways to work through a fight and eventually come out the winner.
Dragon Age has had a strong first week and looks to keep players occupied from some time. In my own experience with the game, with my first character I started rushing through content like I was playing an MMO. I went back, re-rolled, and started taking my time with the game. For me it was a big switch from my PvP smash and grab play style. I'd like to thanks Mike Laidlaw from taking time to chat with us this week. Also, if you have not tried it, check out Dragon Age as a nice break from the MMO grind.
Yes, if MMORPG would have so many choices it would have great replayability value (or whatever people call, I dont know as I am one game = one character player). But Dragon Age didnt have feeling that you change world with your choices, maybe because it is too short to feel them affecting world or maybe it was just my choices. It would be if they would create Dragon Age 2 with your choices showing changes after lets say 10 years.
Premium Content was real immersion killer... I understand it good marketing but still, it made me want to puke...
Story was good but nothing new: end of the world is coming and you are superhero who is going to save it. It simple as that with a bit of backstabing. That Loghan or whatever was his name didnt felt as great threat but minor nuisance, there was 100% chance of getting support of dwarves, elves, redcliff, mages. Wouldnt it be a lot more fun if you could be betrayed by some race or something like that. Bah 7/10 for story...
I find the article amusing.
Dragon Age copied from World of Warcraft everything but the User friendliness of its interface.
There is no Auto Target or Nearest Enemy Target key. So whereas in World of Warcraft you press Tab to target an enemy and then attack it with a button on your hotbar, you can't do that with Dragon Age. YOu must click the Target.
You also have no Target Portrait, so you need to pause the game to try to figure out who you have targeted. If your ally is infront you...then sorry bub but you can't target anything but your ally...unless you rotate the camera in various ways to try to click the enemy you wish to attack.
Other things are the Map and the Quest targets. In World of Warcraft, especially with recent user created enhancements such as quest helper, Tom Tom and Carbonite you are never at a loss for what you have to do next. However this isn't the case in Dragon Age.
The Codex and Journal are cryptic messes of text that make following quests and storylines very difficult. Whereas in World of Warcraft with these mods you can bring up the overhead map and see exactly where you need to go, in Dragon Age you frequently lose track, especially traveling between cities. Some quests are given in one town, but you actually need to go somewhere else to do the quest...and then return to the town. When you return you'd better remember who gave you the quest and where they were, because unless you are on the right map you won't see the quest marker.
Now let's go onto Leveling up and completing quest objectives.
World of Warcraft makes it very clear when a player levels up, in fact they make it a big deal with a recognisable sound , onscreen graphic effect and text that appears at the top center of the screen, very readable and noticeable indicating you have levelled up.
If you are on multiple quests, a Quest Objective tracker keeps track of the quests, multiple quests, as you do them. You can tell at a glance what you have to do next. If you put the game down for three weeks and return to it, you won't be lost. Not so with Dragon Age. Notifications are tiny and placed in the lower left of your screen, well out of the way of the focus of your eyes. You need to go back and forth to the ineffective and confusing Journal repeatedly to keep track of what you have to do. And at some points you coudl have over 20 quests in the journal.
Another issue is that the User Interface does NOT SCALE. So whereas with world of warcraft if I set my resolution to 1920 x 1200 or heck..2530 x whatever I can then adjust a Scale to make everything a bit bigger and more readable...you can't do that in Dragon Age.
Dragon Age's interface is the same interface style we've seen from the 1990s. So unless this Dragon Age spokesperson is saying that Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights drew on the user interface of World of Warcraft, he's full of it.
World of Warcraft with its user mods are a 10/10 with regards User Interface, Dragon Age would be a 5.5/10
They do nothing new and unique, and do a lot much worse to what gamers are used to in 2009 in an RPG.
I don't know why all the hype over Dragon Age to be honest, the story is generic the characters are bland and the classes are extremely limited in customization. when i got my first advanced class i was really excited till i found out how little it impacted my characters playstyle.
what because i can choose my dialog? wooo so i can be snarky, or evil or the good guy but really nothing changes except my party members may not like me .... awwww.
its a decent game, just glad i didnt spend money on it if you know what i mean.
The Dragon Age game must have been made for a high end system since it would not run on my system Intel Dual Core 3.6, Nividia 9800, 4GB Ram, Winxp SP3. When I contacted Bioware support, they suggested I upgrade to a faster system using Windows Vista or Windows 7. If I had the money to spend would upgrade, stupid bastards.
If i can run it with an 8400 then its not teh games fault it wont run on your comp.
So far a good game.
I purchased it and have not been disappointed.
I don't remember Baldur's Gate I and II too well... I played them, but it was at around the same time I played Icewind Dale and it's sequel. I sat down, played through these games... took what I enjoyed and set them down like I would any other novel.
I have a much different perspective than people who grew up with these and tried to love them. I just... enjoyed them and set them aside.
I'm finding individuals who believe it isn't "as good" as Baldur's Gate, see the game through a filter created by their desire to keep the BG series in their heart. Like your first love.
Placing Dragon Age: Origins and Baldur's Gate in the same arena, I find them equal.
Baldur's Gate has obvious flaws (which really should remove it from competing) when compared to it's modern cousin... Technology being the main of them... but since people keep bringing it back... i try my best to ignore those flaws.
I do the same for Dragon Age.
My friend use the same rigg but a 8800 CTX card, and the game works fine on it. Well, he have a 2,5 ghx quad instead but that is probably slower than your dual core.
I think you have another issue. Check all the drivers and see so you have the latest direct x.
I liked the story, it was far better than most MMOs, only online game that is close was Guildwars: Nightfall. Yes, good and evil is a classic but Bioware handled things very good, you didn't go out and killed 20 rats a 100 times before good enough to do something serious.
As for the autotarget, this game can be paused and are intended to be, you tell all your group what to do then. In a MMO that is something you can't do and that forces the game to help you a lot more.
But complaining that it is hard to find certain quests? I play EQ2 and this is nothing compared to that. Wow is just making questing too easy, and so is AoC and many others.
Dragon Age = most hyped game in history
So highly hyped (payed) that even a site dedicated to MMOs writes articles about it.
Big fan of Bioware here. But DA:O is average RPG. And even that is to much of a compliment
Nope. Dual Core 2,3; Nvidia 8600, 2GB ram is enough. And I even played at top graphics without lag. Load time would become problem after nonstop gaming of FIVE TO EIGHT HOURS. And all I would have to do is spent few minutes restarting my computer. I heard many people complaining about high end system requirement, but is just seems like incompatability with something...
The yellow part concerns me in regards to the Star wars Bioware/EA MMO.
If Dragon Age is the model of "story" based gaming, then worry for the online MMO they are making. The perspectives of starting out are different, but they all meld together in Ostagar and there is little or no variance. I bet the MMO will be like Guild wars, which isn't bad. The down side is that GW is free to play.
Dragon Age for a single player RPG was GREAT!!!!. Depending on the type of single player RPG experience you enjoy, will determine your opinion of DRagon Age in the long run. I for one hate the FF type RPGs.
As far as MMOs learning anything fron Dragon Age. I don't see anything that would be learned from this title. So as story for the forth pillar in MMOs it is a nice idea, but untill we see it implimented in SWTOR we will not know if it is going to be a major impact on MMOs.
I hope they can pull it off.
As compared to what? I think it's an excellent game. Sure there things such as being "snarky evil" that anohter person had said (most bioware games seem to have that problem) but I see dragon age as a step forward in Bioware's evolution.
It does have strong similarities to Baldur's and neverwinter nights but they have spent quite a bit of time allowing the player to nudge the story a bit here and a bit there.
With the exception of a few glitchy things here and there and perhaps the whole "snarky evil" (but in Dragon age one can actually do evil things that are really evil, not just being the standard "rude" in the dialogue".
LOL
Really?
LOL
There is nothing that they copied from wow. It is much more similar to their earlier games of Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate 1 and 2.
Im glad Im not the only one who doesnt understand the hype for Dragon Age.. Even the title of the game make me cringe...
"Hey we made a new fantasy IP, what are we going to call it? Lets take the 2 most used fantasy words and put them together. Voila! We have Dragon Age!"
But on the other hand I must be the only PG gamer who never been a big fan of Bioware. Which is strange since Story/lore is the most important feature in game for me and Bioware is supposed to be the kings of this.
Well, I think it's a juggling act. how much different should the class allow you to play. I do see the differences between a pure damage mage and one that is more curse based as opposed to the healer type.
Being a shield wearing warrior is a lot different than a two handed warrior. I had picked champion and had notice that my playstyle was slightly altered. And I think that's the issue, the sub classes are more about adding flavor to the class. In some cases there can be more drastic play such as going from a regular warrior to a reaver or from a mage to a warrior mage (can't remember the class name).
So in that case I think it depends on each class.
As far as characters, well sure they could have gone quite a bit more in depth but the characterizations are wonderul, even they at times seem to fulfill roles we have seen before.
I had mentioned in another thread that I thought morrigan needed more depth and was getting annoying. However, that was because I had preconceived notions of what she was about. I thought, erroneously, that she was just a misunderstood person who didn't have social graces and who was the way she was because of the life she had up to this point.. I was looking for her to change and redemm herself.
But then I realized that due to her life experiences, this was who she was. The redemption for me came in part from a small seemingly insignifiant piece of dialoge involving one of the gifts you give her which ties into an event when she was a little girl. That was where I saw more of her humanity. Also, if you take the romance option a bit farther she will give you a gift and again, depending on your dialogue choices, her reaction shows something warmer deep down inside.
I would say the characters, on the surface do fulfill very basic roles. And they sort of have to given the medium we are working in.
It's not a book so there isn't a huge amount of time to delve into characterization and it's not a movie or play where more can be revealed and the viewer can just sit back and take it all in.
And given the character acting I think the characters are fleshed out very nicely.
I think anyone could nitpick anything about the game but I think it would be doing the game a bit of an injustice. For me the sum of all the parts adds to a far greater whole than most games I have played over the years.
The yellow part concerns me in regards to the Star wars Bioware/EA MMO.
If Dragon Age is the model of "story" based gaming, then worry for the online MMO they are making. The perspectives of starting out are different, but they all meld together in Ostagar and there is little or no variance. I bet the MMO will be like Guild wars, which isn't bad. The down side is that GW is free to play.
so you start different but you still get the same story, you're still a grey warden, you still meet the douchey Allistar and the Emo wizard? geez not much replay value in that then.
The skeletal structure of any story is going to sound generic. There are only 22 or so different stories one can tell. What matters is how they are told.
I find Dragon Age brilliant as a setting and, if not as a traditional story, as a story told through a game. I think if folks understand some of the allusions and references they'd recognise that not only is Bioware's storyteller fully aware of what he's borrowing from, and how to change things around to keep you interested, but probably from many sources (including historical ones) that I suspect most players just don't even know exist so they can't recognise what's actually going into the story. If you don't listen to alot of jazz don't be surprised when you don't find a jazz song interesting and find it sounds like every other jazz song.
Dwarves and elves. Boring! Right? What if...instead of Mithril the Dwarves were peddling Spice (ala Dune)? Oh ho! That's a new twist. What if, instead of being the regal and illusive immortals of Tolkien, elves were beaten down by mankind to live either as second class citizens or as scattered and rebellious remnants in the wild? Do you go to the reservation or do you fight? Another interesting twist. And if you know history you'll recognise fantasy versions of Anglo-Saxon England, the High Chivalry of Aragon and southern France, a twisted version of the Mediterranean lands (European and North African) and even a mystical, theocratic, Byzantium in some of the places mentioned by characters and in the lore.
We're only in dark ages "England" now but there's a whole world out there and a fairly cosmopolitan and plausible one.
The story itself seems basic but given the grim nature of the Grey Wardens and the "whatever it takes" attitude they have you've got some unlikely heroes capable of doing some pretty terrible things if they must. That wouldn't be nearly as interesting is it might sound on the box copy except for the fact that Bioware's really fleshed out the world beyond the Grey Wardens, The Blight, and the main struggle. There are good people and bad ones caught up in their own struggles. Not every narrative element is best resolved by doing what's honorable but that's always an option as is becoming jaded and violent given a warden's self-justification for just about any deed.
And what's most important is how brilliantly all of this is packaged in the form of very well fleshed out and believeable characters. There's genuinely good writing all around. Humor, pathos and all the rest delivered almost flawlessly.
I'm not a Bioware fanboi. I didn't much care for either Baldur's Gate or KOTOR and certainly not for Jade Empire (despite my love of asian fantasy settings). I'm not remotely interested in playing a narrative-centric MMO. MMOs should be for players to create their own adventures and shape a world collectively (Eve Online does this best via PvP but games like Star Wars Galaxies or City of Heroes with Storyteller or Architect tools are slowly evolving in the right PvE direction).
I'm not even sure I like the gameplay in Dragon Age, at least as it manifests on the rather fiddly console version, all that much.
But the world, the characters, the story...? This is as good as it gets for single-player RPGs.
I love Dragon Age, finally a good proper RPG with a decent story and interesting characters! I've been waiting for something like this for years now. Planescape torment is probably my favourite game all time, but this one is pretty close. But what will probably keep me playing this game for years is the toolset, hopefully the community will be like that for Neverwinter nights!
The ratings and good reviews Dragon Age is receiving is more than enough to prove that all the hype around the game wasn't just that.
This isn't some piece of crap game with a bloated advertising campaign that spends millions generating media hype around it to make a quick buck and then doesn't give a crap if ppl hate the game afterwards.
This is BioWare you're talking about, they have done more than enough in the past (a long time before WoW was even out) to prove themselves worthy in the RPG making business. How can ppl say that they copy WoW... you fanboys really are thick in the head aren't you?
Dragon Age is clearly a continuity project from BioWare , it contains elements from several of their past RPGs... taking stuff from NWN, from SW:KOTOR, etc...
Someone complained about the UI not expanding!? Well, sincerely don't know why, my interface expands perfectly according to resolution and aspect ration I choose (currently playing at 1680x1050 in 16:10).
People talking about storyline, quests, gameplay, etc... differences between this and MMORPG X. Making the argument that "it's not like WoW" or <insert another MMORPG name here> is not even remotely close to being anything worth reading. Since when is Dragon Age competing against MMOs? Unless some really strange stuff happened that I don't know of. I believe this is a single player game and comparing it to an MMO in anything that relates to gameplay is just flaming with no intention of actually making any sense.
You want mods for the UI? bohoo... They released an amazing toolset, if you can master that you can come and talk about mods for the UI.
Seriously... nothing against the OP, but this seems like one more thread invaded by trolls and ranting fanboys that give no valid opinions on the subject but feel like their incessant rants should be read as if they were incostestable truths.
The fact is the experts say it's a great game, the players say it's a great game. As far as I know it's selling pretty well (and no I don't want to get into the marketing strategies of EA). I'm proud to have one the CE edition and I'm really enjoying this game. So as far as I can tell gathering all the straight facts... this game is good. You might not like it... but that doesn't make it a crappy game.
What you didn't read the box?
LOL
see thats just it is i don't think what i wrote is a nitpick.
story - lets see evil monsters are trying to take over the world. a secret group of trained warriors are trying to unite the lands to stop them.
companions - snarky righteous character ... check! Emo i hate everything wizard - check! brute warrior - check! geez these haven't been done before
I play a human Warrior 2 handed tank, was able to play that way from the start and when i got Berserker there was no change in my playstyle.. and the limited skill it unlocked was extremely disappointing. i was expecting a whole new set of skills to pick and choose to personalize my class. i got 4 extra skills ...wooo
The whole point of your post was lost on me as I waded through your whining that Dragon Age didn't dumb their game down enough for you to play it successfuly. I think the game held our hands enough, considering it does map out everything for you and does show these big shiny arrows over NPC's whose quest you completed. I'd of been happier if they made us think more and explore more. My exploration was guided, because I could always open the map and see where I haven't explored yet.
At any rate, I find it revolting that you actually WANT other games to dumb things down so much that you don't have to use your brain anymore.
Dragon Age is an awesome game. I know alot of people will criticize it because of its single player but in all I get a more compelling story,gameplay and even the loot is far superior than most mmos offer. I hppe someday they make Dragon Age into a mmo.
Yup! Agreed.
The loose reference to WoW in order to have an excuse to say "Dragon Age: Origins" on the front page one more time is pretty nauseating. Especially when it's just plain wrong, in that the systems mentioned that they borrowed from WoW were around long before WoW existed. Boo again on your 'journalism' mmorpg.com.
Loving Dragon Age so far.
why? with its generic setting you can get that from most MMOs. heck go play LOTRO, its basically the same overall story. a evil presence is trying to take over the land, humans, dwarfs and elves are trying to unite to stop it.
Gel214th I was going to write a long reply to your post, but do you know what.....I can't be bothered, you're an idiot plain and simple and you don't even deserve a longer response than this, go back to playing wow if you're so awed by it.
*Edit Typo*
why? with its generic setting you can get that from most MMOs. heck go play LOTRO, its basically the same overall story. a evil presence is trying to take over the land, humans, dwarfs and elves are trying to unite to stop it.
Lotro is done horribly but that is my opinion. Bioware clearly is one of the best in doing fantasy. I would rather give my money to Bioware because I know I'll be getting a quality game. This mmo genre needs companies that actually care about making great games rather than other companies who push out unfinished products just to make a quick dollar.
Agreed, although I am slightly biased, seeing as Bioware employs a member of my family :P
Bioware has really hit the mark with DA:O, it is without a doubt the best single player rpg developed since the early 00's, and I think it will hold that title for the next few years. It is going to be very difficult to top what they have accomplished.
Epic doesn't even begin to describe the game, and the guy above who considers it a "generic setting" is clearly someone who just shouldn't play rpgs at all. You think LOTRO and DA:O have similar storylines because each story features an antagonist? That's as ridiculous as someone saying one book is the same as another just because they both have pages...
Regarding stanalone RPG's and what MMO's can learn from them, its important to keep in mind that the dynamic that drives standalone games is the opposite of MMO's. In a standalone I'm the only real person in the game universe. In an MMO, I'm one of thousands (hopefully). That being the case the idea that MMO's should learn from standalone's is a bit worrying.
In a standalone game, as the only player it makes sense that I be the focus of the storyline. That the storyline be the driving focus of just about every thing I do. However in an MMO where I'm one of thousands in a persistant world, i can't stand it when the storyline is mandatory and forces me (and every other player) to be the one. Yes there should be story in an MMO, a rich and compelling one, but it should be there primarily to provide structure. A context for the world and the players to base their actions on.
Also regarding the 'choice' that bioware is famous for, I do like it, b but again, in an MMO where the results of that choice are going to be mostly cosmetic or limited very strictly to my immediate play area, ignoring the fact that I'm playing in a persistant world, then I don't particularly care for it.
Bottomline: In MMO's the storyline should be there to facilitate the players, letting them make their own storylines in the world they're in.
P.S. I guess you can tell I'm a sandbox type player :)
Yup! Agreed.
The loose reference to WoW in order to have an excuse to say "Dragon Age: Origins" on the front page one more time is pretty nauseating. Especially when it's just plain wrong, in that the systems mentioned that they borrowed from WoW were around long before WoW existed. Boo again on your 'journalism' mmorpg.com.
as i stated elsewhere if mmorpg.com is going to shamelessly promote single player games because EA is heavily advertising on their site then they might as well produce an article with some substance.
this article was a poor effort in trying to link dragon age to mmos and, in my opinion, offered very little if any insight into whatever they were trying to elaborate on. maybe because the only evident elaborate attempt is that of further promoting a game advertised on their site.
Think DAO is linear? It may say more about you than it says about the game.
Yes, you have a handful of origin stories that converge at Ostragar. However, those origin stories give you context for:
gender (doesn't make a difference in stats/abilities, but does make a difference in relationships and cultural fit)
race (this is a racist society - AND the races have prejudices of class [human], caste [dwarf] or free/subjugated status [elves])
profession - mages are considered a necessary evil which may have recently become enough of a liability to be eradicated
By the time you reach Ostragar, as anyone who's rerolled will know, dialogue and reactions will change from the NPCs. You may arrive in Ostagar with one or two party members. You will hit the next map location choice with three or four (or two if you make some choices I suspect few will, but could be totally valid within the cultural framework given).
Shortly after you leave the coda to Ostragar, you run through a small town where you can pick up another two potential party members. Party size is max 4. So you may have to choose to leave out up to TWO characters from your party going forward, each of which has not only skills but information and existing *relationships* with important NPCs going forward.
If you think the story is linear, you're treating this like Diablo. It's NOT Diablo. It's *actually* that rare beast, the true RPG. *Real* choices involving real sensitivity to your party members (and your own willingness to pander to what they want to hear) make *real* differences in future interactions with them and with NPCs who relate to them.
So, as you may guess, even though I haven't gotten through a huge percentage of the game play, I've gotten significant replay value from the first perhaps 25-30% of the game.
If you think DAO's linear, it's just a reflection of your own gameplay style.
Shava
BioWare support is probably just trying to be friends with M$ and some hardware dealers :P
You "seem" to have a system powerful enough to run the game, I've seen it run on a C2D E8400 with a 8800GT and 4Gb of Ram and it was pretty smooth. Not running at full settings but good enough.
I wrote "seem" because you only posted hardware, there are a lot of other things to take into consideration besides that. If you have checked everything software wise that could hinder the game's performance than I really have no clue. If you haven't looked into the software part. Try the basic first, nvidia drivers, pain in the ass security software that hate games (like norton for example).
You could also try turning off AA both ingame and in the nvidia control panel and see if it gets better. If you want to try more advance tweaking I suggest you get rivaTuner and fraps. Mess with rivaTuner a little bit and use fraps to check ingame fps. Some games maintain a rather balanced fps except in more GPU demanding stuff like rendering a lot of characters, increasing the drawing distance a lot (doesn't apply in Dragon Age I know). If you can identify the source of the problem you get one step closer to solving it.
But basically you're either CPU bound or GPU bound. One of these for some reason is hindering your performance.
Good luck with that, hope you can get sort those issues out.
This site has no business writing feature articles about non MMO games.
*posted in wrong thread*
Dragon Age has been a pretty enjoyable experience so far, if it does feel a bit overly difficult requiring frequent pausing hehe. It doesn't remind me of WoW at all; I tried WoW for a few months and dropped it (funny since I am a MMO addict) but will play Dragon Age trhough to the end (maybe more than once). Dragon Age is not a perfect game, but it is a good game even though I will admit it is probably over-hyped some. It certainly is a nostalgic throwback to the RPG days of Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate. It feels like DA:O is running off an enhanced version of the Neverwinter Nights engine, ableit a smoother and less clunky feeling third person engine.
I Love you Dragon Age.
Agreed, although I am slightly biased, seeing as Bioware employs a member of my family :P
Bioware has really hit the mark with DA:O, it is without a doubt the best single player rpg developed since the early 00's, and I think it will hold that title for the next few years. It is going to be very difficult to top what they have accomplished.
Epic doesn't even begin to describe the game, and the guy above who considers it a "generic setting" is clearly someone who just shouldn't play rpgs at all. You think LOTRO and DA:O have similar storylines because each story features an antagonist? That's as ridiculous as someone saying one book is the same as another just because they both have pages...
LOL hardly, more like a brand new movie thats coming out where a woman travels back in time to save the mother of the future leader of the human resistance. this brave woman all alone in the past will match wits against a machine that can take the look of a human. this breed of machine are called ELIMINATORS!
yeah Dragon age is along those lines.
Couldn't agree more. Already played through as a Human noble warrior and have now started a human noble rogue and human mage while my wife is currently working on her elf rogue.
see thats just it is i don't think what i wrote is a nitpick.
story - lets see evil monsters are trying to take over the world. a secret group of trained warriors are trying to unite the lands to stop them.
companions - snarky righteous character ... check! Emo i hate everything wizard - check! brute warrior - check! geez these haven't been done before
I play a human Warrior 2 handed tank, was able to play that way from the start and when i got Berserker there was no change in my playstyle.. and the limited skill it unlocked was extremely disappointing. i was expecting a whole new set of skills to pick and choose to personalize my class. i got 4 extra skills ...wooo
Well, I can easily give you that.
You're right, evil monsters trying to take over the world. The Dark Spawn as being "notorcs", etc. I can't argue with that.
However, think the reason that it works, at least on some level is that it speaks to something that is deep down within. It certainly is not different from Oblivion or even to a lesser extent,. Morrowind. though in those games there is more of a face to the big bad. So I can't disagree. It carries directly over from Lord of the Rings.
And yes the characters are archetypes of familiar faces. However from what I've seen, there are very nicely subtle hints of "something more". They still are what you say they are but these character archetypes will be used in many more books and games and movies going forward. We will see them 20 years down the road.
I can't say I disagree in that it might be nice to have something different but the question is, would it work as well in the context of a crowd pleasing fantasy game. They certainly aren't remaking the story just giving a slighly different flavor to it. So yes, the story and characters on their own is boilerplate.
Part of creating characters for the theater and casting them, is believability. So if I have a character in mind and have an actor who isn't as good as another but they physically embody the character far more than the better actor, then in many cases they are going to be hired. Part of this is because the play or movie only has a finite amount of time to run and the audience needs to sign into the characters as quickly as possible.
So having said that, part of an adventure story is having strong characters for the audience to grab on to. So sure, the writers at bioware could have explored the depths of these characters. And there are depths. But given that this falls more into the sword and sorcery /hack and slash realm of stories, they need to create characters that can immediately insinuate themselves into the players' minds.
However, the characters are flawed and in very subtle ways. Could bioware have built more on this? yes, most certainly. But in some ways its a trade off as the story really is more about you and your journey through their story.
And yes, we don't make this story. I just signed in to Dragon Age (and funny enough, the game crashed ; ) ) and tried looking at the game through a different set of eyes because of several threads on this site. And yes, there is some merit to some of the negatives that people are writing if looked at through very pointed spectacles.
In a game like oblivion or even more so, morrowind, you really do get a feeling that you are in a world. In the bioware games, you are in a world but it's a very focused world. It's more about being in a living book or movie than a full on immersive world where yyou wander to find your destiny.
And I can say that for some this will be a huge problem.
That is why I think Dragone age is more about the sum of its parts to create the whole than being specifically a "role playing game" that brings something new to the genre. It's not new. It is a refinement of Bioware's style of games.
For my taste I have been completely delighted in the acting of most of the characters. However, one has to take the story and characters for being very pointed archetypes. Searching for greater depth, and depth that is far reaching, within the characters is going to be a dissapointment. I would go so far as to say that in some ways they are like shakespearian characters (bear with me here) in that they all are very broadly painted characters whose sole merit rests on somethng greater.
Characters like Hamlet or Macbeth don't have layers and layers and layers. They are pretty one dimensional and lay firmly in the story that they inhabit. They fulfil very concrete roles. Where they shine is the world they inhabit and of course the language that is used.
But they are very memorable characters because the world and language used allows for their subtle characterizations to shine. They are memorable.
so yes, the characters in dragon age are pretty boiler plate. but I am not sure the the game would be better if we delved into the deeper issues and motivatons of the characters. I think more depth would have helped but the delicate balance is being bogged down in depth so that we are not playing a game but more like watching a movie (which some are already finding a bit unwieldy with regards to the cutscenes) or reading a book (and there is a lot of reading in the game).
What I would say is that Dragon Age is very distincly a Bioware game. It plays out and feels like all the Bioware games that have gone before, right down to the snarky evil character the player might play. Where it shines for me is that all of the parts, regardless of their flaws work so well and if players could check their cynicism at the door they might be able to enjoy the game for what it is.
However, if we bring all of our baggage from past games then sure, we can dissect the game in such a way as to leave all the parts out in the open where they might be hard pressed to stand up to closer scrutiny.
Not that many of you bothered to actually look at the game or play it before posting, which is readily apparent, but the Achievment clearly lists unlock all endings. This directly implicates the presence of multiple storylines having your choices make an effect on the story overall.
For my taste MMORPGs focus too much on:
It's still good to see that there are companies that try to create CRPGs with a good focus on the story element. Yes, even CRPGs lack in the roleplaying department. But at least the NPC and party banters make up for it a little bit. But this is still more than in the average MMORPG party that is set out on gear grinding (ok, you can have lots of smalltalk but that's even a step farther away from roleplaying ,) ).
Another point concerning CRPGS
I don't want to see "exclamation marks" hovering over quest NPCs. I don't want a "navigation" system. I don't want to see a quest NPC standing directly near the quest entrance (if it isn't dictated by the story). All this and lots more is just for convenience but takes the excitement of discovering the game world. And it just gives me the feeling that I have to work on a checklist... (errand 1 - checked, errand 2 - checked, ... errand n - checked) :(
Dragon Age is the #1 game in history right now! It blows MMO's away and they know it! It completely stopped me from playing CO and even caring about STO beta. One of he best things about this game is if other people complain about it and quit I dont care it doesnt effect my experience.
Multiplayer is overrated and is actually just frustrating dealing with people whining and changing the game I'm playing. Dragon Age may signal the end of MMO gaming as being the overall best format for rpg. Single player is BACK!
Luckily, it seems, for me I've never much cared for the previous Bioware games I've come across so all this supposedly "tired" content is brand new to me. Dragon Age's setting is just so rich and plausible in a way most fantasy settings aren't that I believe it's a real world in a way Oblivion never quite sold me on even as much free-roaming as it let me do. Fallout 3 pulled it off with a very stylistic and interesting setting but the NPCs were generally bland or, worse, just annoying. None of them really tickled my imagination though I loved exploring the world, that I did. So much to find out there.
DA's characters, every one in my party so far, is interesting to me. I often pick companions for an adventure based on curiosity about how they'll interact with each other or the adventure as much as their actual combat utility. In fact, the difficulty of the gameplay (at least in the console version - the optional bird's eye view and MMO GUI on the PC version make handling the tactical chores much easier from what I've read) is making my approach less practical. I may just switch to Easy Mode rather than letting some developer's tactical puzzle be the boss of me.
And, I touched on this in my last post, the world is a wonderful reinvention of fantasy cliches and historical settings. It's gritty but warm, dark and light, plausible and all the rest. More than that even is just how well it all fits together to create immersion. I'm generally skeptical of narrative heavy games because I find they drag me in directions I don't want to go and limit what I can do. They often seem shallow or boring and almost always unrealistic and predictable. Dragon Age is so well crafted, evades so many pitfalls, that I'm entirely happy following along their story because I feel I've the wiggle room to put my own spin on things.
Do the npcs that sell quests for real money add to that immersion?
Did expansion packs that added content after the game launches break your immersion, then?
It's simply a delivery method. Although I bought the DLC before I even got to that point, so I didn't see the npc "Sell" it, I personally look at it as a superior method than putting an ad on a website.
Imagine if someone never went to a games website to see if there was new content/expansion packs.. They're going along, maybe on a second or third try for the game, but this time there's an NPC they've never seen before. The NPC informs them there is a new journey ahead of them, but it tells them about buying the expansion pack...
I don't see the harm in this. It's sounds to me like it's the smoothest way to incorporate new content, old content, and real world sales within the game world.
I certainly hope something like this doesn't spoil the rest of the game for you... Unless you're prone to let small issues outweigh more important things. Suppose it's about personal perspective.
Doesn't bother me much. I'm loaded.
I love the content downloadables. I already picked up Warden keep and because of the Downloadables and the Online Profile you get and community its a SPORPG :p
The reason its featured here is because DA is the BOMB!
p.s. Its also the wow killa
Did expansion packs that added content after the game launches break your immersion, then?
It's simply a delivery method. Although I bought the DLC before I even got to that point, so I didn't see the npc "Sell" it, I personally look at it as a superior method than putting an ad on a website.
Imagine if someone never went to a games website to see if there was new content/expansion packs.. They're going along, maybe on a second or third try for the game, but this time there's an NPC they've never seen before. The NPC informs them there is a new journey ahead of them, but it tells them about buying the expansion pack...
I don't see the harm in this. It's sounds to me like it's the smoothest way to incorporate new content, old content, and real world sales within the game world.
I certainly hope something like this doesn't spoil the rest of the game for you... Unless you're prone to let small issues outweigh more important things. Suppose it's about personal perspective.
there is nothing to spoil for me, I simply wont buy the game. When I pay for a single player game, I want to play the entire game. Being milked is for cows and other such creatures.
I'll toss this in once since it's come up.
Advertising and Editorial are handled 100% separately here. Literally, the people selling the ads are in Hawaii and the people doing the editorial are in Eastern Canada and the New York/New Jersey area. We have zero idea what's on the page as far as ads go beyond what we see visiting the site like the rest of you.
Clearly, Dragon Age is advertising here, but that had nothing to do with why we spoke to them.
Honestly, we made the decision some time ago to at least cover the game to some extent. The reasons are simple:
Frankly, glancing at our forums, I think Dragon Age may be the most discussed game on our site right now (independently of us). It shows there's an appetite for it.
All this said, covering single-player RPGs is the exception, not the rule. We will not list Dragon Age, and likely only cover RPGs by MMO developers. Take Torchlight, which we have also covered, since it's directly becoming an MMO. We will likely also have an article or three on Diablo III. At the same time, though, I doubt you'll see much, if any, Starcraft II coverage here.
So that's the line in the sand we've drawn and the logic we used, for those who want to know.
I don't care (ty adblock/flashblock) but just as an FYI, in the internet age, the above statement has absolutely no bearing on the the point in question that is being responded to.
I have to say that you touch upon a lot that I am thinking.
I also pick characters for story purposes.
For instance, and I'm sure I'm not really giving anything away here, there is a point where the husband of a paragon dwarf wants to come with you because you are going to look for her. Now, i could have just taken my usual party but it made more sense to take him, even though I found his character despicable (in a good way) and quite frankly I didn't need another damage dealer.
A good way through your journey, approaching the end point, bioware gives you another chance to change out the character. My initialy thought is "ok, I suppose someone might want to mix it up for a variety fo reasons, but I have been in these tunnels with this group looking for this person and changing it now, even though I want to, would not make sense storywise.
I put together parties based upon what I think makes sense to the over all story and to my character. At one point, even though I didn't need morrigan as I had the mage from the tower (great healer) I decided that the party felt too bland and needed the extra spice that morrigan brought. Yes, it's a familare taste but going forward the party needed a bit something else to flesh out the experience as the current party I had were all the same flavor.
And though I did play Baldur's gate, the sequel to a point (I had to stop as I couldn't get into it) and both neverwinter nights games (the secone one I also had to stop as it kept having lulls for me that I just coulnd't get through) Dragon age speaks to me a bit more and feels more compelling. I have been playing it in my spare time and I have not wanted to stop. As I said to my apartment mate, I felt like playing it all night and NOT going to my girlfriend's place (of course I went, real life has far more over games to my thinking) and I haven't felt like that in a game for a long time.
And I think you also hit it on the head regarding Oblivion (or even morrowind). I love those games and have played the heck out of them. I still play Oblvion. But with all the strengths that both games have, sometimes the free roaming takes a bit out of the momentum.
Sure, bioware games are very consciously theaterical stages where you are a part of a forward moving story. Sure you can do the sub quests but you are in a very defined space. We are not just going to explore for the sake of exploring a world because it's just not there. In some ways that is a shame.
However, what we do get is a more pointed story and greater sense of urgency for those who can buy into the experience.
As for the above regarding buying the whole game as opposed to nickle and diming, I can appreciate the sentiment but I think it's just a marketing tool to prepare customers for the 2 years of content that bioware will be bringing down the pike.
We have purchased the whole game. But bioware has set up a sytem where that game will be added to. It is in a sense their advertisement for a service that interested players can take advantage of if they so desire.
And quite frankly I'm in. I enjoy adding to games that I really want to play.
Heck, I really would like another Oblivion pack. I go out of my way to download the player stories because I want to continue the journey of my character.
And as I never have a problem paying for my entertainment provided I am getting good value, I will purchase the expansions or additional adventures if it means that I can enjoy my character and this world for a bit more.
mmo's do this and they don't have nearly as much story narrative as single player games. Something that I've been thinking about a lot since oblivion and Dragon Age.
Mmo's allow me to be with my character for years. And to a point they provide a rich game world to explore (hopefully). However, I have more sense of story in single player games which unforunatley end way too soon for my tastes.
I can be engrossed in a world without seeing players shooting the shit in chat, dancing on tables or in the cities or jumping up and down in my face while I'm trying to do something. it's those reasons where mmo's fail for me.
I want to be engrossed in story with a charcter that I nurture. MMo's allow me to nurture that character but it takes more for me to become immersed in the stories because other players are running through content (DDO) or too busy using the mmo as a social tool than a story based game.
Need to change the site from MMORPG.com to RANDOMRPG.com.
Overhyped? Hardly. And comparing it to WoW is a stretch as well. I haven't even leaped on WoW since the game released and sure as heck haven't touched Aion neither. But then again I know some of you from your posts and you usually have nothing but negative things to say anyway. Jessica Biel could strip in front of you naked and you would still find something wrong. So to each their own.
I am loving the game and many things Mike states in the article are dead on. MMO's are missing some of those elements especially the feeling that we actually have an impact on the world around us. I see many MMO gamers complain about such. Story is iffy with some folks but I for one love a good story. It helps bring you into the game and create immersion. Now some don't seek that and that's understandable but I think a stronger number actually do. The story in DAO is anything but the usual. Since when is it usual that the elves are treated with disdain and servants? Usually they are looked upon in a higher light as if they are the betters among the races.
Characterization is same ol'? How? You could always make a mage that can wear plate? One that has the ability to be an Arcane Warrior using their magic to be a warrior on the field? For dealing with a genre and industry that is littered with fantasy games and various classes you have a limit on what you can do to totally be original and out of the box. They did a rather good job at it in my opinion.
At this point Bioware may be on a roll with this game then Mass Effect due in January of 2010 and then Knights of the Old Republic due somewhere from next year to 2011. So I give them their props....they are definitely earning it...and my money it seems.
Anyone who baselines against WoW is clueless, especiallly considering Bioware and their excellence existed long before wow.
The depth within the DA game is exceptional... as far as MMOs go just watch Bioware take the market with their MMO development....
I don't care (ty adblock/flashblock) but just as an FYI, in the internet age, the above statement has absolutely no bearing on the the point in question that is being responded to.
Yes and no. If we were all in an office together, we'd pick things up is my point.
The general point is: the editorial team never discusses ads with the advertising team. Period.
The first major release of Bioware under EA's banner is, in my opinion, a disappointment.
Trying to hit me up for premium content the moment it's installed is a slap in the face. So, EA it isn't enough I just plopped down $50 for this game you want more money already? Bad enough Mass Effect is charging $5 for the new patch, at least that game is over a year old. Really ruins the immersion when PREMIUM CONTENT is in big letters on my quest journal AND there is an npc in the party camp reminding me that I didn't buy it yet.
Game is rather buggy. Forums are alight with numerous posts about choppy gameplay, load times taking several minutes and downloaded content not being downloaded. I can run Mass Effect, Age of Conan, Prototype and Batman Arkham Asylum on max settings with no issues, yet running DA on minimum settings I get load times up to 15 mins and framerate measured in the low single digits. That is inexcuseable QA. Think about this, game came out tuesday and friday there was already a patch out for it.
I've already cancelled my ME2 preorder. If they can't get this game working after 5 years of development, how good can ME2 be with less than 2?
Yes and no. If we were all in an office together, we'd pick things up is my point.
The general point is: the editorial team never discusses ads with the advertising team. Period.
Perhaps some interdepartmental communication would do you guys some good then. Question, do the writers LOOK at the site? You do know the ads for Dragon Age were up far in advance of the article right?
Do you guys not run the articles by Craig and Ben? How much input do they have on what you guys write about? Just curious.
Did they not know that might come across looking like more paid advertising?
How important is it for mmorpg.com to have the appearance of journalistic integrity? I'm not mocking here, I'm being serious, because if appearing to have journalistic integrity is important on this site, I have to say you're failing.
[quote]The writers looked at things like the idea of using or abusing power and racism among the elves, dwarves, and humans. They wanted tough issues that never really got to this depth in previous fantasy titles[/quote]
i don't know if it has already been said (don't have the time to read through all the replies) but dragon age is not the first attempt at introducing mature content in the fantasy genre. surely devs made an excellent work, but when it come to tough issues, the witcher imho got it better. in any case, i always appreciate this sort of attempts
Yes and no. If we were all in an office together, we'd pick things up is my point.
The general point is: the editorial team never discusses ads with the advertising team. Period.
Perhaps some interdepartmental communication would do you guys some good then. Question, do the writers LOOK at the site? You do know the ads for Dragon Age were up far in advance of the article right?
Do you guys not run the articles by Craig and Ben? How much input do they have on what you guys write about? Just curious.
Did they not know that might come across looking like more paid advertising?
How important is it for mmorpg.com to have the appearance of journalistic integrity? I'm not mocking here, I'm being serious, because if appearing to have journalistic integrity is important on this site, I have to say you're failing.
I'm not saying we don't talk ever, I'm saying we never discuss advertising.
Obviously, we can see the ads on the site, but we have covered this game well in advance of launch, well before the ads.
Craig/Ben run the site, but generally leave the editorial alone. They never request we cover specific games (so as not to let ads influence things). Their involvement is more on the "we want to add feature X to the site" side of things (like blogs), or asking for more/less of certain kinds of articles (like say reviews in general). Nothing to do with specific titles.
The fact is, we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. On one hand, people demand we only show advertising for MMOs or related titles. So we do. You don't see car banners, Phoenix University, and Orbitz as a matter of general policy, which Craig has posted here several times.
Yet on the other hand, people get mad when there is editorial on games that do have ads. If we never wrote about games that have ads on our site, there would be no content. Period. I cannot think of a single major MMO launch that I don't remember seeing an ad for on the site. Should we stop covering Aion and Warhammer too?
To me, it's no different than CNN reporting on Obama and McCain during the election, yet still running campaign ads. It's the cost of doing business and why we're very careful to keep the two streams separate.
There is no way to prove this, but I can say I've never once seen an ad on the site and gone out to cover the game because of it. We have also never been asked to post something on someone because they were going to advertise or as part of any financial deal.
I will say now, we plan to do about the same amount of coverage as we did on Dragon Age on Diablo III and Mass Effect II for exactly the same reasons we covered Dragon Age (see first post I made). If one or both advertises, good for them. If they don't, that's fine too. The decision long predates that.
I want to say one word: Broodmother.
Seriously, that was the most intense fight I had in years. We need more fights like that in games in general. (I loved that my main character, the tank, got the last blow. Glorious death!)
I love that game even if enough times i curse Mike (Sorry Mike) who spawns 14 skels just in front of me (the ghost little boy in the dungeon) just because he wants to push me to the limits, it may also be my fault since i chose to auto level most of my party chars, but anyway after i finish a battle i always say that most unsuccessful attempts were my fault.
I would like to add that mmorpgs should give the player more options to decide if he wants to do battle or not and his decisions should affect his alignment a lot with rewards and penalties as in P&P rpgs, also playing a hard game is not a big deal since in mmos there are many players who manage to reach the cap in couple of weeks.
Also i would like to ask if Bioware is planning to add a custom formation feature to DA like baldur's gate did since imo the lack of it makes the game more difficult than it should be.
Why are you posting here?
It's the wrong decision. This is supposed to be an MMO site. Those games you mentioned don't fit that category.
It's as simple as that.
Why are you posting here?
I sort of see his point. As I said above, it seems that mmo's are about being social portals where players can chat and experience some game play. Even in DDO where the quests really are about quests and less about killing x of y, you see players ramming through the content. Some of that (most?) is the fault of the game design where running quests is the way you level.
I'm sure we all can agree that for the most part, once we've experienced quest dialoge and story points for a few times, it becomes more about clicking through it. Sort of a "yeah, yeah, I read this several times before 'got it'"
If their new Star Wars game is successful I can easily see more mmo's going this route for the simple reason that it brings back the story and gameplay of role playing games.
I can't see mmo's continuing for years with the current system. Not that it's horrible but the current system seems to be about something else.
I love leveling and adding skills and upgrading my characters. But I noticed that I rarely if ever looked at the xp bar in Dragon Age. Or heck, even Oblivion.
I think if a game company were to put out an mmo that catered more toward story at the expense of the whole open world concept where everyone is just running around doing whatever (dancing, calling people noobs, discussing sports, dueling in the warehouse ares, etc) I would probably be more prone to gravitate toward those games.
I'm not sure everyone would but those people who really want to be steeped in story and where their character falls within that story might also do the same.
Well, you can certainly just not play the game, but if you play an MMO, your argument holds no water.
Expansion packs and content are added to games continuously. Are you still playing any MMO with the original content? Why is that different? Just because the ad comes from one npc, rather than gate appearing in a zone, or people returning with gear you can never have unless you buy it?
I don't see what sense your argument makes if you play an MMO. You're being milked there worse than anywhere, because to be competitive or to even have others to play with, you generally are almost forced into buying it.
There's absolutely 0 need for you to buy the DLC in Dragon Age. The whole game can be played without it.
But then again, nothings stopping you from simply not playing. It is, of course, your perogative.
You know I wonder if anyone actually understood the point I was making.
The interview focused on the similarities between Dragon Age and World of Warcraft at one point, and what one could learn from the other.
My point is that I think that World of Warcraft, with the various mods, is a great interface for an RPG on the computer. The easy movement, camera control, targeting flexibility etc. is spot on.
These are things that Dragon Age did not quite capture. They came close, but then stopped short..and to me that actually made it seem worse.
Dragon Age does not have:
1) Targeting and Auto Target functionality with the keyboard. You cannot click TAB and target the nearest opponent, or cycle through opponents. If you try to shoot Lightning without manually selecting a target, you need to click again. That's clunky. Why isn't there an option to auto select a target? How many recent RPGs, single or multiplayer do not contain some sort of auto-target functionality?
2) The Quest Target system could be a lot better. If the person I need to visit is in a house, I don't see the quest target marker. This happened more than a few times in Denerim.
3) The Codex and Journal are very clumsy. The Codex consists of a series of numbered icons under broad headings. How on earth is that user friendly? I am hoping that someone takes ALL the Codex items and puts them online, at least then I can read them properly. Mass Effect's codex wasn't perfect, but it was a whole lot better than what we have in Dragon Age.
4) No onscreen Quest Objective tracking. Its easy to miss when you have completed a quest objective. There is no onscreen mission objective tracker. You must keep checking your Journal.
5) No Target Portraits - You need to zoom out and rotate the camera to figure out which opponent you are targeting in larger battles. Why do they not have Target Portraits? These work hand in hand with keyboard targeting to improve the user's awareness. Yes I can pause the game and rotate the camera and try to figure things out...but in a flowing battle situation that becomes very clumsy and it feels like I am fighting the game AND the opponents, rather than just using the tools available to plan my strategy.
6) The UI cannot be Scaled - There is no slider to Scale the user interface elements for those with High Resolution, widescreen displays. 1920 and up. The text remains small, the interface elements remain small.
These are short comings in the User Interface Design when compared to other MMORPGs on the market. Age of Conan, World of Warcraft, Runes of Magic, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Fable II , Borderlands all have better User Interfaces and present information to the player more efficiently than Dragon Age does.
That does not say that Dragon Age is a bad game, far from it! It does several things very well.The story is good, I like the character interaction, the fact that there is a toolset is great...in my view the game is a MUST BUY for RPG aficionandos. And we know all the things it does well, we've all read the reviews if not played it ourselves.
However there are flaws.It *feels* to me like a sort of Reskin of older games i've played before. And in some cases there's nothing wrong with that...but Interfaces have moved on, and if one is going to compare their recent game to others on the market with respect to UI...then there's some justifiable and constructive criticism that can be leveled.
Please watch your step there are now WoW hand rails for you to grasp onto for this ride. the height ...errr IQ requirement for this ride exceeds the requirement of your currently played mmo. Keep your hands inside and enjoy the ride
It really has nothing to do with Smart people vs Stupid people.
It has to do with Good User Interface Design vs Mediocre or Bad UI design.
It has to do with making things easy for the user so that the UI becomes almost transparent and is something that the user does not even think about while they play, yet all the information they need is available to them with as little manual input as possible.
On the question of storytelling in MMOs vs single-player RPGs, the problem is that they are fundamentally different game experiences. When the RPG story is done, it's done ... you might have the option of cleaning up the side quests, but essentially you need to start over if you want to play more. An MMO is more like a simulation - stuff happens but the world keeps on turning. I would say that most MMOs actually try too hard to tell a fixed series of events when they should be trying to show off a living, ever-changing world.
It really has nothing to do with Smart people vs Stupid people.
It has to do with Good User Interface Design vs Mediocre or Bad UI design.
It has to do with making things easy for the user so that the UI becomes almost transparent and is something that the user does not even think about while they play, yet all the information they need is available to them with as little manual input as possible.
The interface and UI is designed for this type of game. You cant put a wow interface on it its not a First Person game. This is more a RTSRPG at the party level. Its a NEW GENRE!
Maybe you should get the name of the writer of Bioware right it s not David Gator but David Gaider
I'm loving this game. Maybe not the best RPG ever, but the best in a long time.
For fantasy lovers like me we've had, what:
Gothic 3? LOL, glitch city.
Dawn of Magic. Blech
Spellforce. Ick
Risen. Meh, not too bad, but still clunky.
Time of Shadows. Sucked.
Drakensang. Medicore and buggy.
Legend - Hand of God. Nope.
Two Worlds. No thanks.
Last Remnant. Kicked ass, until the combat got so boring I wanted to eat my own eyes with a wooden spoon.
Done all the gaming from gemstone till now and dragon age is by far one of the best rpg's to date hands down. Between this title and "The Witcher" rpg gaming is coming back finally!
this game is amazzinnnggg
Perhaps some interdepartmental communication would do you guys some good then. Question, do the writers LOOK at the site? You do know the ads for Dragon Age were up far in advance of the article right?
Do you guys not run the articles by Craig and Ben? How much input do they have on what you guys write about? Just curious.
Did they not know that might come across looking like more paid advertising?
How important is it for mmorpg.com to have the appearance of journalistic integrity? I'm not mocking here, I'm being serious, because if appearing to have journalistic integrity is important on this site, I have to say you're failing.
I'm not saying we don't talk ever, I'm saying we never discuss advertising.
Obviously, we can see the ads on the site, but we have covered this game well in advance of launch, well before the ads.
Craig/Ben run the site, but generally leave the editorial alone. They never request we cover specific games (so as not to let ads influence things). Their involvement is more on the "we want to add feature X to the site" side of things (like blogs), or asking for more/less of certain kinds of articles (like say reviews in general). Nothing to do with specific titles.
The fact is, we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. On one hand, people demand we only show advertising for MMOs or related titles. So we do. You don't see car banners, Phoenix University, and Orbitz as a matter of general policy, which Craig has posted here several times.
Yet on the other hand, people get mad when there is editorial on games that do have ads. If we never wrote about games that have ads on our site, there would be no content. Period. I cannot think of a single major MMO launch that I don't remember seeing an ad for on the site. Should we stop covering Aion and Warhammer too?
To me, it's no different than CNN reporting on Obama and McCain during the election, yet still running campaign ads. It's the cost of doing business and why we're very careful to keep the two streams separate.
There is no way to prove this, but I can say I've never once seen an ad on the site and gone out to cover the game because of it. We have also never been asked to post something on someone because they were going to advertise or as part of any financial deal.
I will say now, we plan to do about the same amount of coverage as we did on Dragon Age on Diablo III and Mass Effect II for exactly the same reasons we covered Dragon Age (see first post I made). If one or both advertises, good for them. If they don't, that's fine too. The decision long predates that.
no.
people are not complaining about mmorpg.com writing editorials on game's which are advertised here.
the point is that first, it was an article on a spg which is doing heavy advertisment here. that rised a few eyebrows. but that is not the main issue.
main issue being that the article was not an objective review of the game, nor an interview about the game's features, nor a history of the lore if you like....
it was about how fantastic the game is and how it relates to mmos and WoW and if you put everything together its rather suspicious.
myself personally i wouldnt mind if you advertise african safaris and even perhaps write about your personal adventure on them but that is a long way from writing about how the safari compares to the landscape in Age of Conan Khemi or how it reminded you of the beatiful vistas in SWG Tattooine.
I've been really busy playing DA for the past days. Its good - but he longterm enjoyment of this game will be built on the toolset and the future content for the game.
With that beeing said - If you play the normal "skip everything and rush to top lvl" MMOs then you will miss out what DA is all about. The game is built on a totally new gameworld that is specially built around the game. There is some deep lore to go through and for those that really care- there is so much to sink your teeth into.
Dragon age seting as a MMO game tho .... no - its not an open world game and is very much resticted in features that alot of the big guns of MMOs are providing.
I will give my final verdict on DA when I have played through all the origins charas. So far I must say its a very well done game. But plz dont try to compare it to MMO games. It isn't one .
nope, but i bet star wars the old republic is.
so you start different but you still get the same story, you're still a grey warden, you still meet the douchey Allistar and the Emo wizard? geez not much replay value in that then.
Omg get off the forums, The main story objective is always the same, but its how you complete that one objective that makes the game unique your choices CLEARLY impact you and your party throughout the game.
It's the wrong decision. This is supposed to be an MMO site. Those games you mentioned don't fit that category.
It's as simple as that.
MMO_Doubter
Find another website that offers as much MMO content and news as "www.mmorpg.com" But this article involves a major gaming company involved in MMO's SW:TOR was even mentioned. They have every right to include an article or advertisement from a lead gaming company. Bioware makes it relevant automatically.
I know what you mean. I only played for an hour and couldn't stand the combat anymore. Glad I didn't waste any money on it!
Has anyone else gave it any thought that Dragon Age may eventually become a mmo hence part of the undisclosed reason why Bioware wanted this game advertised on this site ? Bioware even said themselves that The Old Republic may not be the only mmo they work on.
The way DA:O is atm, it could never work as a mmo.
The way DA:O is atm, it could never work as a mmo.
And your reason for saying this is ??? Obviously things would have to change but it is more than doable for a mmo.
This, and much of the rest of the post it came from. The underlined section was, erm, underscored by this little tidbit from a conversation between my main character and Alistair:
"I'm just here to spout off one-liners and deliver bad news."
I almost did a spit-take on hearing that, seeing how true it has seemed from time to time. Despite that, there's significantly more to the Alistair character than what he claimed, but there's enough truth in the statement that you can tell the Dragon Age developers were having a good laugh at their own expense. The moment had a distinctly Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back feeling to it a la all of the times they reference something from real life, then turn and stare at the camera for a moment.
"It's nothing but a 90-minute long dick and fart joke. Who would pay to see that?" -everyone looks at the camera-
Dragon Hype...errr...Age. Two words. Memory leak. It will leak out of my memory hopefully faster than it leaked into my PC's memory. Another Lie-o-ware commercial milk run. RIP the real Bioware. Why is this console crap of an offline crpg even brought up here ffs??? Please.
Sadly the only thing keeping me from buying this is the fact there's no multiplayer (according to my searches). I loved Elder Scrolls III...but I just couldn't get into it knowing I was the only one in that world, and Dragon's Age will be the same thing.
Would have been great if it was like Neverwinter Nights's multiplayer mode.
The way DA:O is atm, it could never work as a mmo.
But warcraft did and it was a real time strategy game.
What do u mean console crap, the gameplay is more like old school PC rpg like baldurs gate which I like.
The only thing I don't like about Dragon Age is how it's adopted standard party structure for most MMOs - that is, you need a tank, healer, and mage in your NPC party. I'm finding it extremely difficult to progress unless you run a standard "MMO" party of NPCs. Even the strategy guide highly recommends that you run one of a handful of "suggested" group strategies, most of which are built around tank N spank.
The thing I love about first person RPGs is I don't need to have the "perfect" party structure to beat certain content. In games like Oblivion, I could run a mage tank or a fast but fragile rogue and still be competitive. I really feel that DA:O forces me to take certain NPCs for certain quests, much like MMOs force me to group with certain classes in order to beat raid content.
For a MMO site they sure are pushing this SINGLE-player game hard. Next thing you know there will be a splash on the main page that takes up...oh, wait. Well at least there isn't a mini-splash across every graphic for every article...son of a...
You could use that argument to excuse coverage of any game, movie, or book in existence.
Let's have reviews of the recent 'Dune' prequels, because 'Dune' would make a great IP for an MMO (which I believe is true).
Limit it to actual MMOs, whether past, present, or in development.
Well, level design would be easy for Dune.
There were a lot of coincidences around the arrival of this article, but what if there really wasn't anything else to write about? No major announcements? No new images? And a lot of people on this site are obviously playing the game, myself included. It's a bit of a stretch, but its not like you talk 100% work with everyone at work all the time.
So, if they wrote it for the right reasons, as the quick defense by a mod suggests, then good for them.
If they wrote it for the wrong reasons, as the shotgun blast to the face that is their ad campaign, then shame on them.
I'm going to play the whole game through once, then go through and pick entirely differenct choices. If I end up landing on both sides (an evil destroyer and a noble savior), then I'll say this story thing works. If not, it's like getting the directors cut of a movie and comparing the three 45 sec cut scenes with the original theatrical release, great for a movie ... CRAP for an rpg selling story.
I supported this site doing ads for Dragon Age but thought the one on the article pictures was a bit much. But now we have an article about the game too. What lessons did Bioware draw from MMO’s? This seems a thinly disguised excuse to have an article about the game to me. Stick to MMO’s guys the list of dubious articles just keeps getting longer: The Aion score, how the new pets in WoW are not RMT’s really and now a review of a solo game.
What’s next? How Call of Duty MW brought MMO design into its game? Or how about dlc for Dragon Age, we really need a feature on that too. Sheesh.
God I love this site. An article for a game that doesn't even have multiplayer options (something the old great titles from the golden age of Bioware had) It's very simple. Game mechanics haven't changed since the BG games pretty much (useless tactics system aside). Class system is probably simpler than most of their past games. Actual tactics are a joke, CC + DD rinse and repeat. Stunning the undead with a mind blast, nuff said. The ability to murder some npcs in the game seems to be the only "innovation" the developers came up with, not that I'm complaining bout that part lol. The story and the lore. Well it is obvious they read and definetly watched LOTR about a million times. Graphics are the only thing I can admit to really enjoying, and even they weren't spectacular. MMOrpg.com needs to change its name and just make a Gamespot clone tbh if they want to be in advertising.
I agree whole-heartedly, as much as I love this site, the fact that MMORPG.COM has done much advertising on their site for Dragon Age makes my suspicious sense tingle. I mean seriously guys, this is an MMO site, don't fall into the back pocket's of all those big shot companies that shell out the cash. MMORPG.COM should stand for more than just the bundles of green paper, that's why it has such a large fanbase, not to mention the fact that talking about Dragon Age and its similarities to real MMO's, a poorly veiled reason for advertising the game, is not only deceptive but just insulting to the people/fans that read the articles on this site. Don't drive away the very people that make this site what it is.
Pick up your game MMORPG.COM
I agree completely.. DA:O did absolutely nothing to impress me in terms of gameplay and fun factor. The only reason I managed to press myself to complete a playthrough was that the story had some interesting elements.
I'm surprised the front page article didn't have Dragon Age: Brought to you by Dragon Age picture on it... the irony.
Am waiting on purchasing Dragon Age (Dont pay full price for games, perhaps on Black Friday it may go cheap for a day and Il grab it then) but having played BG2 and the newer bioware games, I can tell just from looking at it and reading certain reviews, its better than pretty much all the MMORPG garbage around nowadays. Im pretty tired of mmorpgs (or at least what is out there right now) perhaps the new Star Wars game may change that. Im done with the Warcrafts (which I stopped playing 2 years ago) and Aions (Which i never have, and never will play) types, which would be better off dead. (And yes, I actually played Champions Online unfortunately)
Please, I went out and paid 50$ for a Nvidia 8600GT on my computer that was top of the line back in 04 and I can run it with the textures and graphics maxed (no AA).
Also, to all the people dissing Dragon Age; you've clearly been numbed to a brilliant RPG experience due to your MMO"RPG" exploits.
The only Generic characters I was really aware of at first were Sten (still badass, his complacency is quite entertaining) and Wynne (who in reality, is not generic).
There is more to a true RPG then "LOL I CAN TAB TARGET".
And FYI, (for all your people that think it) World of Warcraft is not a good RPG experience (though it is a good MMO experience, there is little to no "RPG" about it). Cancel those subscriptions and go Bauldur's Gate, or Knights of the Old Republic or whatever.
A good RPG is an RPG that sucks you into the world, and I damn well felt like a Dwarf. Mission Accomplished and well worth my 50$.
Now I can't wait for some of those more tech savvy people to make some additional content with that toolset!
I have been playing Dragon Age from release day and can tell you I find it more engrossing that ANY MMO. Somewhere along the way MMOs lost the RPG at the end. There is great potential in many MMOs for serious RPG but none of them develop it and the communities then to attack attempts at RGP inclusion.
For those areguing about the story line not being original, you are correct and wrong at the same time. It is hard to create a truly original storyline in fantasy anymore since in fairness there is just so much stuff. My opinion is this storyline drew from Tolkien and George R. R. Martin (Ice and Fire Series) pretty heavily. At the same time they put their own twist into the storyline and have prodcued a GOOD story to follow.
In fact Bioware should be appluaded for their commitment to this storyline. I have commented elsewhere that they have already released two full novels and the CE Stratgey Guide contains 50 pages of lore. This is a LOT of background material to put out for a first release of a game world.
The bow to MMO elements in the game by Bioware was brilliant. This allows MMO players, not always the same as RPG players, to feel more comfortable in the game and introduces them to RPG concepts. At the same time it allows some RPG players that never went to MMOs to get used to some MMO concepts of play.
For me the games big strength is the fresh feel to it. It is fantasy but does not feel like other fantasy worlds or games. I know it is similiar to many but the depth and twist of the storyline combined with a return to real RPG elements makes this game feel fresh compared to titles out today.
The only other current title I know that comes close is the Witcher, however at the end of the day I think Dragon Age wins.
I find it very interesting that an MMO site and so many MMO players are taking time to really look at this title. This is very telling and the MMO industry needs to stand and take notice. RPG is alive and well and many MMO players would like to see it come back to the MMO.
On a side note, to the person that did the interview. I was very disappointed. As a professional interviewer and journalist I would have expected the interview to have direct quotes and a question and answer sesson not a rambling of your thoughts of what he was saying.
Love the game, but my personal "hype" meter for SW:Tor has gone down some after reading their thought on MMORPG's, was already afraid of that but am sure SW:Tor will be a great game, but after this interview I feel it's just going to be that, a great game, but I want a great MMORPG, not just a Action Online Game. Again hope Bioware can proof me wrong with SW:Tor.
Story: Every MMORPG ever made had story, gladly within the MMORPG scene story is a backbone but not the most important aspect of a MMORPG, it is for a singleplayer game. For a MMORPG story is a choice you either follow or you don't.
The build of a MMORPG, they say: MMOs have the luxury of carrying a player through the game on different levels. 1.The first being small solo content, simple quests and story lines that a player can do alone. 2.The next is small group content, whether it is small dungeon raids or group quests. 3.The third is large scale raids, giving players a huge area to work with and allowing for teamwork and guild development.
I want 1/2/3 to be mixed together, If I play a singleplayer RPG I know I can expect to be carried from place to place, in a MMORPG I don't want this, I want freedom, I might make a wrong turn somewhere and get killed but I will learn from that experiance. It sure looks as if Bioware only focus is World OF Warcraft.
I mean is it that hard to creat group content at the start of the game, why should raids or groupcontent be something you experiance at a certain lvl. The same with allowing teamwork and/or guild development, why start that late.
Overall as I started my personal hyp meter has gone down some after this interview. But still love DA
I found DA:O to be the only thing that completely removed any desire to log into an MMO ever since i got it. No single player RPG (apart to some extent Mass Effect for the first couple of days) has managed to do so.
So kudos to Bioware :D
Blah blah blah....so much hate on these forums...Waste of my time and energy.
Couple comments above that I wanted to address.
I'm also noticing that the "traditional party" structure is all but required (PS3 console version: Normal Difficulty) and even then in large parts it is very challenging. I'm a seasoned gamer so I know what I'm talking about. Come back and call me newb after you've taken on Korea in Falcon 4.0 or laid down the smack in Operational Art of War. I'm also getting very frustrated with that to tell the truth. "Casual" difficulty mode is just "Tourist" mode. There's no difficulty involved. From there Normal jumps up, once you hit a certain level, to really smack you around if you're not a dedicated min-maxer and micromanager.
Now the PC version might be easier to manage and that's seeming like the way I should have gone. But I do love my comfy couch. Next time I wait for more reviews before jumping on the bandwagon.
Now why is challenging, difficult, gameplay a problem? It isn't necessarily. If you're playing a game that's about being a general you want lots of detail to sift through and build a strategy around. That's a wargame. If you're playing a game about flying a top-of-the-line, high tech, jet fighter then you want all the radar modes and HUD configurations and aerodynamics to create the illusion of the experience. That's a flight sim. However, if you're playing a game that's about being an adventurer wandering with colorful companions you really need a little more leeway for picking characters, or skills, you have fun with rather than slipping into a min-maxing grognard, or raid monkey, mindset. That should be an option but that should be Hard difficulty mode. Hard mode should push gameplay over narrative as a distinct challenge just as, conversely, Casual mode lets you romp effortlessly through combat to enjoy the story.
I'd actually love to see a CRPG that was a great wargame or simulation but, sadly, that flies in the face of what CRPGs are thus far about. D&D's draconian and abstract logic still rules the day.
Normal difficulty should give you some challenges but shouldn't always hit you with tactical challenges that force optimal strategies or party compositions on you. Forums are full of people giving other people advice on Dragon Age. This is absolutely normal for any new game. What's different is that in many cases that inside knowledge, OOC (out of character) knowledge in roleplaying terms, is almost essential for success in DA. You almost definitely have to go and get that uber healing mage. You almost definitely need to bee-line for Shale if you want a decent tank. Given the huge amount of damage everyone seems to take, get ready for frequent flier miles garnered from trips to the Daleland merchant for elfroot.
And if you don't know these things, if you're trying to play DA as a straight adventure rather than an MMOish grind to maximum power for minimum effort, and you're playing the console version on Normal difficulty then Maker help you.
The other point I'd like to address is the idea that this kind of storytelling will be a good thing for MMOs. Maybe it will be, we'll see when KOTOR Online hits. But it's not good for roleplayers. Here's the problem. If everyone's having the same adventures then what kind of reality do they share to roleplay in? Almost all MMOs have this problem to one extent or another, continuity issues, and the usual method of handling that in the community is to treat the canned, scripted, MMO quests as something apart from the reality folks are roleplaying in. Otherwise it's all but impossible to reconcile. In an MMO that depends so heavily on very structured and central storylines you're going to see real problems because those quests are harder to ignore. People will lean on them more as "real" things that have bearing on their character's lives.
Imagine this. Han Solo's just helped to destroy the Death Star and he meets an Obi Wan who is still living in a cave on Tatooine. Two hobbits walk into a bar and find they've both destroyed the one ring. Let the immersive roleplaying commence...
Good luck with that.
DRAGON AGE IS NOT AN MMORPG.
www.mmorpg.com is becomming less and less about mmorpg's and more and more about advertising for any video game with a sword and a dragon in their theme. It underscores a poor journalistic/editorial focus IMHO. MMORPG used to be specialists on MMORPG's and used to be the go-to place for MMORPG info. Now they are starting to muddy the waters and in turn muddy their own specialization...
Thats not to say that Dragon Age is a bad game because it isn't. After all it was given great reviews at a real multiplatform site www.gametrailers.com who specialize in cross platform gaming.
And yes I do realize that one of the reason for interest in Dragon Age by www.mmorpg.com is because Dragon Age uses what some call traditional MMORPG combat mechanics. Fine and well... but so does Fable, Gothic, Witcher etc... what we are actually talking about here is RPG mechanics not mmorpg mechanics. The MMORPG industry learned ALL of their tricks from the standard RPG platform games (not as if its a big head to head face off or anything). Its just a historical trajectory. Games with an RPG element will inspire each other...golly go figure. Hardly news...and definitively not explicitly mmorpg news.
I read somewhere that the game world of Dragon Age is not an open one, you basically fast travel to points of interest. That killed my interst in the game as I like virtual worlds because they seem more alive and immersive to me. Also, the stop and go combat where you pause to issue orders to your character or team mates, while useful from a strategic point of view, does not really reflect the dynamic, furied pace of combat.
However, on character creation and graphics they get 10/10.
The problem with your logic is that on paper and in discussion it sounds pretty sound. But without playing the game and seeing how the perspective of this relates to its style of play you are applying “apples” to “oranges” from a judgment perspective. Also, remember where there’s smoke there’s fire and if this game was not threatening to be the best thing since sliced bread we would not even be having a heated discussion over it.
Lotro is done horribly but that is my opinion. Bioware clearly is one of the best in doing fantasy. I would rather give my money to Bioware because I know I'll be getting a quality game. This mmo genre needs companies that actually care about making great games rather than other companies who push out unfinished products just to make a quick dollar.
Hella ya, LOTRO is a joke imo. The cutsceens got old quick for me not too mention the horrible character models. As my g/f keeps mentioning everytime she watches me play DAO...."This is what LOTRO should have been" (we both played LOTRO)
Re-due Middle Earth Bioware!!! For the love of god!!! LOL
I know what you mean. I only played for an hour and couldn't stand the combat anymore. Glad I didn't waste any money on it!
What I like about the combat the most is that you actually get to enjoy step by step every single element and aspect of each characters struggle and triumphs as the battle progresses to its conclusion. There are times when a battle is done I find myself physically clapping (yes really clapping) at how the team pulled it off or how a character was instrumental in turning the tide. You get an in-depth perspective to your team and it just rocks! I find it much better than real-time since you can miss allot of what’s going on and don’t have a full understanding of each characters contribution.
Well boss I don't actually care, but I'd like to point out:
Purely by coincidence, and thus not in the button list, but still having a psychological effect was the DA-related comic that I saw on loading the front page. Collectively it was DA overload.
Now maybe you don't know anything more about it than we do, and I'm generally inclined to believe that you don't on a professional level, but you do have to admit that it's a perfect storm of coincidence.
With that said I don't personally care if it is all arranged or not. I find their (apparent) attempt to connect DA's success with SW TOR quite frankly amusing.
If SW TOR is anything like DA then:
Bioware is as cliche as anime. The bad guy is always obvious. The betrayals are always obvious. The plot points are always the same. The same character archetypes are always used. The only thing that we're missing is the blue spikey hair.
Good thing I like anime then.
Good point! Who needs MMO's anymore, in DA I feel like the people are very real and I get to switch out party members and dont have to worry about people leaving my group during a quest and LFG issues.
The problem with your logic is that on paper and in discussion it sounds pretty sound. But without playing the game and seeing how the perspective of this relates to its style of play you are applying “apples” to “oranges” from a judgment perspective. Also, remember where there’s smoke there’s fire and if this game was not threatening to be the best thing since sliced bread we would not even be having a heated discussion over it.
Good point. There's definitely something there as many people are enjoying it. I haven't played the game myself, only seen vids on you tube, gamespot, etc, which can be misleading. Maybe playing the game, the lack of an open world would not be as great a detractor as I imagine. I don't know...
If this game learned so much from MMO why does it not have a decent patcher built into the game.
PC games these days need to have a better patcher that comes with the game than relying upon everyone having the latest MS compilers loaded on their PC. Come on that is the ONE thing they SHOULD have learned from an MMO.
Otherwise I think the game is fun...
Well boss I don't actually care, but I'd like to point out:
Purely by coincidence, and thus not in the button list, but still having a psychological effect was the DA-related comic that I saw on loading the front page. Collectively it was DA overload.
Now maybe you don't know anything more about it than we do, and I'm generally inclined to believe that you don't on a professional level, but you do have to admit that it's a perfect storm of coincidence.
With that said I don't personally care if it is all arranged or not. I find their (apparent) attempt to connect DA's success with SW TOR quite frankly amusing.
If SW TOR is anything like DA then:
Bioware is as cliche as anime. The bad guy is always obvious. The betrayals are always obvious. The plot points are always the same. The same character archetypes are always used. The only thing that we're missing is the blue spikey hair.
Good thing I like anime then.
All your bullet points are user error lol!
- Forget you put them on Hold
- Dont know how to use part hold or the tactical interface
- Does not know how to operate ranged character Behaviors in the Tactical menu
-Does not know how to deploy a strategic group
Sorry sir, you are the problem. This game takes skill, L2P
The easy mode, besides being easier for players who don't like to micromanage or who aren't as good dealing with multiple party dynamics, is actually touted as an option for players who don't want to pause and want to conduct the battles in real time. I mostly use this option so that I can minimize pausing and get a more fluid feel to the combat.
As far as the fast travel, that is correct. But this is how Bioware typcially designs their games.( Unless someone knows of a bioware game that doesn't use this design?)
I've been thinking a lot about this as I have been playing a lot of Oblivion which of course has an open world.
If one really looks at it, Bioware's games are more about set pieces that hold the story and action. They are less about players exploring and more about the story at hand.
There is a part of me that would love to just explore the world of dragon age with a party that's just not what bioware's games are about. They are very story related. If you look at all the options and intertwined bits in Dragon Age, and given that it took years to make, I dont' think having an open world would have been feasible. well, it would be feasible if they took longer to design and make and we can see that though the graphics are decent, they are a bit aged given its develpoment timeline.
I do think that anyone who loves role playing games and who likes a good story, even if there are derivative elements would very much enjoy Dragon Age. lol, heck, I'm still lauging about the npc who, when you kill him, shouts his last words "I wish I could have lived to see the ending".
It's bits like that (which are strewn about the game but not so much as to take away from the story) that really make Dragone Age a very fun experience.
Or your first battle in the human noble story where you have to kill giant rats in a pantry. One character states something like "Giant Rats? sounds like the beginning of every bad adventure story that my father used to tell me".
Clearly the devs know the genre and were having a good time. And by doing this they also freely invite us into their good time.
QFT
I wish all single player games came with this feature. That would just be too convenient. I had a guildmate in an old online fps that made one for our game and it was amazing how easy everything became, as opposed to hunting down files everywhere.
What an amazing game Dragon Age Origins is.. a single player game, full of depth and content that plays a bit like an MMO with AI controlled teamates.. extraordinaire.
Lets hope MMO devs take some ideas from DAO into the MMO market.
I think it's good that MMORPG covers RPGs as well. I think it's brilliant idea and that you guys should really consider covering more RPGs in the long run. Diversity wouldn't hurt this site and it's still part of the name... RPG :)
I'll be buying Dragon Age soonish... it looks like a well worth purchase!
Dragon Age is a interesting game, big and full of quest and things to do and conquer. Much better than any MMORPG, but this is not saying much since as a RPG most MMORPG games are garbage.
Well boss I don't actually care, but I'd like to point out:
Purely by coincidence, and thus not in the button list, but still having a psychological effect was the DA-related comic that I saw on loading the front page. Collectively it was DA overload.
Now maybe you don't know anything more about it than we do, and I'm generally inclined to believe that you don't on a professional level, but you do have to admit that it's a perfect storm of coincidence.
With that said I don't personally care if it is all arranged or not. I find their (apparent) attempt to connect DA's success with SW TOR quite frankly amusing.
If SW TOR is anything like DA then:
Bioware is as cliche as anime. The bad guy is always obvious. The betrayals are always obvious. The plot points are always the same. The same character archetypes are always used. The only thing that we're missing is the blue spikey hair.
Good thing I like anime then.
Sorry but I am having absolutely none of these issues. Using the 'H' key properly for telling your party when to hold or when to follow helps a lot. Not sure if you are accidentally hitting the key or unaware so not certain there. And my healer and range always stay at range because I set their behavior at 'Range' and they stay back. If I place them somewhere and then put them to 'Hold' they also don't move and attack from that spot.
So honestly have no idea where you are having these issues as I haven't had them at all at this point and I'm spending hours a day in the game. Only time I had those issues was before I had an understanding of utilizing my tactics, behaviors and placement of party members.
An incredible RPG. Everything about it screams quality. Loving every minute of it. The fact that Bioware made a proper PC version is commendable in this day and age of consolitis.
Ok so you dont think DOA is gods gift to earth like some of us, but jesus, to say its only average and that even that is too much of a compliment? What kinda crack are you smoking exactly?
I don't mind you guys expanding into solo RPG's or other such genre's in your writings and/or musings... but please at least disclose the fact that BioWare has purchased a major amount of advertising (yeah... I know... it's obviously splattered everywhere) and that may have had a direct result on an entire article written about a game that has nothing to do with your website.
The tie-in of Dragon Age with any mmo is loose at best unless you could uncover some element of cross-pollination to TOR.
Do all the commentary and editorials you want. Hey... it's your website and it's fun to read. For the sake of credibility, please just do a better job of disclosing when you are on the take.
If you would return to some code of conduct with regard to journalism and reporting... it wouldn't be a bad thing.
Fuller... I don't know which is worse. If you pitched this story yourself or whether it was assigned to you.
I will give you guys the fact that this was prolly one of the most HYPED RPG I have ever seen!!
OMG! Was it ever / is it ever.
Is it living up to the hype?
Depends upon how much you believe in hype or can make your own decision. I let some friends of mine ( who always have to have the latest shiney new game ) go and blow their hard earned cash on it first. When I STILL have not heard a peep or post from one of them and the other is just wetting himself with praise. I thought it deserved a look.
Outstanding graphics? meh
Outstanding interface? meh
Outstanding story? meh
Honest opinnion is it feels more immersive. It is subtle in its difference from the run of the mill rpg. NPC are not sitting there with a floaty over their head or highlighted or jumping up and down to get your attention. It flows better and FEELS more like watching an interactive story than actually playing a game.
Some micro-management in combat but, some people like that. I like the way the world feels and it really takes the whole Oblivion type of game to the next level of story telling. Oblivion missed the mark a bit there but the world was wonderfull. This one feels like they are using that same 4 year old game engine but, spent the time and developement on getting the story arcs, variations, and choices in and polished.
What do u mean console crap, the gameplay is more like old school PC rpg like baldurs gate which I like.
Bioware hasn't done an 'old school' crpg since NWN (or BG2 really). Everything since has just been dumbed down actioned up console crap for the sheepy masses. Imo. :)
Originally posted by Irishoak:
Well, level design would be easy for Dune.
ROFLMFAO! >8^D
Loving the game at the moment, compared to the main story arc of Neverwinter Nights, it trounces it in every way. I'm hoping that maybe they'll bring in online support for persistent worlds at a later date (else a large part of having a toolset is wasted).
I do like the way the game doesnt always take itself seriously, the trademark Bioware humour is prevalent in this game <3
Someone earlier in this thread mentioned the premium content thing rearing its ugly head in-game, this did kind of mar my immersion to a certain degree, and I agree that marketing should be left firmly outside of gameplay especially for a (currently) single player title (totally blame EA for this).
Minor gripes aside, from my p.o.v the game has more than lived up to the hype.
Edit. I got the impression years back that this title would have been a sequel to baldurs gate 2 or even another neverwinter title, had bioware and atari not severed ties, I guess making a non-d&d franchise title was their way of giving the "fingers-up" to the current liscence holders.
EDIT AGAIN: "finger" singular. ;)
If only Bioware had right to Warhammer IP....
As usually Bioware delivers. The game is basicly a updated Baldurs Gate. I have one issue with Dragon age and Bioware generally though; i dont know if its been covered early in this long thread, but they seem to have problem with coding a decent engine. The graphic is decent - but when you have tryed a similar instanced game like Arkham Asylum - the graphic isnt impressive. Considering how small many of the instances is - even shops and houses is instanced, it is incredible that the game have theese long loadtimes and subpar graphic. Its not only Dragon Age - most of Biowares games is extremely instanced, almost down to the point where each combat is its own instance. Bioware get away with this simply because their games have other qualities. But they need new coders in Bioware imo.
With that said; ofc the game rox. Combats is fun and the CoaS( carrots on a stick) system have a perfect flow. I dont miss their typical Ad&d ruleset much, and the stat based items is a must in modern RPG, like it or not.
It's a memory leak, last I heard they was working on it. When the load times and jerky lag (the lag doesn't happen for everybody) happens just save and exit to the main menu then reload.
Well boss I don't actually care, but I'd like to point out:
Purely by coincidence, and thus not in the button list, but still having a psychological effect was the DA-related comic that I saw on loading the front page. Collectively it was DA overload.
Now maybe you don't know anything more about it than we do, and I'm generally inclined to believe that you don't on a professional level, but you do have to admit that it's a perfect storm of coincidence.
With that said I don't personally care if it is all arranged or not. I find their (apparent) attempt to connect DA's success with SW TOR quite frankly amusing.
Yes, it's a lot of Dragon Age at the same time, but there's a less sinister reason for it all...
The game launched this week. Naturally, that's when they're doing major advertising. It's also a logical time to call the makers of a single player game and talk to them. ;)
Nope. Dual Core 2,3; Nvidia 8600, 2GB ram is enough. And I even played at top graphics without lag. Load time would become problem after nonstop gaming of FIVE TO EIGHT HOURS. And all I would have to do is spent few minutes restarting my computer. I heard many people complaining about high end system requirement, but is just seems like incompatability with something...
It runs on my wife's 10 year old computer in her office. It runs perfectly on mine and its not as nice as yours.
Stop downloading porn.
And to all the people in this thread whining about the game--if you think its so easy to do this (make a game at this standard), go do better.
Morons.
QFT
Great summary of the whole issue at hand.
It's been so long since I've played a great RPG like this.. It's almost like a perfect mix of NWN and Elder Scrolls.. I can't get enough! <3
All your bullet points are user error lol!
- Forget you put them on Hold
- Dont know how to use part hold or the tactical interface
- Does not know how to operate ranged character Behaviors in the Tactical menu
-Does not know how to deploy a strategic group
Sorry sir, you are the problem. This game takes skill, L2P
If only it were as simple as yourself then there would be no bugs and no patches. We can dream.
Yes, it's a lot of Dragon Age at the same time, but there's a less sinister reason for it all...
The game launched this week. Naturally, that's when they're doing major advertising. It's also a logical time to call the makers of a single player game and talk to them. ;)
Absolutely. Also, I just realized that my "well boss" line came across in text much ruder than I intended it to, so I'd like to apologize for that.
The timing of everything makes sense either way, but this way I get to enjoy conspiracy theories. ;D
LOL
Really?
LOL
There is nothing that they copied from wow. It is much more similar to their earlier games of Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate 1 and 2.
Are you joking?
It's an average RPG. and highly average.
Party members don't die and you regen all your health and mana after a battle.
That alone puts the game in the average catagory.
and to put the legend "baldur's gate" in the same breath as this dumbed down RPG offends me.
Are you joking?
It's an average RPG. and highly average.
Party members don't die and you regen all your health and mana after a battle.
That alone puts the game in the average catagory.
and to put the legend "baldur's gate" in the same breath as this dumbed down RPG offends me.
Well, I played Baldur's Gate and I dont' see it as being a better game. The story is a little less boiler plate but not much. I do see it as being in the Baldur's gate family. It plays in a similar fashion.
I can't see why players not dying makes it average? What is the basis for this statement? Also, you will have to remind me, did players actually permanently die in Baldur's gate? I don't recall this.
To say that Dragon age copied anything from WoW is just plain moronic...and your parents should bar you from the infernetz
moronz....
sorry little johny son of a bitch, didnt realise you needed everything handed to you on a platinum platter instead of having you figure your own way out. o wait, if you played anything other then wow you might have noticed alot of games leave how much you learn up to the effort you put into learning it, like mass effect, baldurs gate, all the other games bioware has made and we as consumers have loved.
Are you joking?
It's an average RPG. and highly average.
Party members don't die and you regen all your health and mana after a battle.
That alone puts the game in the average catagory.
and to put the legend "baldur's gate" in the same breath as this dumbed down RPG offends me.
Well, I played Baldur's Gate and I dont' see it as being a better game. The story is a little less boiler plate but not much. I do see it as being in the Baldur's gate family. It plays in a similar fashion.
I can't see why players not dying makes it average? What is the basis for this statement? Also, you will have to remind me, did players actually permanently die in Baldur's gate? I don't recall this.
Agree with this.
Baldurs Gate had some fucking awful pathing, firewine bridge still gives me nightmares *shudder*, BG2 wasnt much better! Legend these games may be, however maybe it is time to put the rose tinted specs back in the case.
Well, I played Baldur's Gate and I dont' see it as being a better game. The story is a little less boiler plate but not much. I do see it as being in the Baldur's gate family. It plays in a similar fashion.
I can't see why players not dying makes it average? What is the basis for this statement? Also, you will have to remind me, did players actually permanently die in Baldur's gate? I don't recall this.
Agree with this.
Baldurs Gate had some fucking awful pathing, firewine bridge still gives me nightmares *shudder*, BG2 wasnt much better! Legend these games may be, however maybe it is time to put the rose tinted specs back in the case.
path finding?
lol
that's your beef?
Yes. BG is legends
DA is not. When you reach 0 health, you die. Why is that so hard to get for game devs? You don't magically get up after a battle where you were cut down thru the neck with a sword to the throat. And you don't don the wolverine healing factor after you get up and are able to fight at full strength 10 seconds later.
It's a dumbed down RPG to the max. In BG you paid for your mistakes and you learned from them
In DA who cares if your party dies, no emotional investment at all.
Well, I played Baldur's Gate and I dont' see it as being a better game. The story is a little less boiler plate but not much. I do see it as being in the Baldur's gate family. It plays in a similar fashion.
I can't see why players not dying makes it average? What is the basis for this statement? Also, you will have to remind me, did players actually permanently die in Baldur's gate? I don't recall this.
Agree with this.
Baldurs Gate had some fucking awful pathing, firewine bridge still gives me nightmares *shudder*, BG2 wasnt much better! Legend these games may be, however maybe it is time to put the rose tinted specs back in the case.
path finding?
lol
that's your beef?
Yes. BG is legends
DA is not. When you reach 0 health, you die. Why is that so hard to get for game devs? You don't magically get up after a battle where you were cut down thru the neck with a sword to the throat. And you don't don the wolverine healing factor after you get up and are able to fight at full strength 10 seconds later.
It's a dumbed down RPG to the max. In BG you paid for your mistakes and you learned from them
In DA who cares if your party dies, no emotional investment at all.
Pretty sure that's because BG/IWD/NWN etc. were fairly strict DnD rules, DA:O seems to just follow a different ruleset.
Agree with this.
Baldurs Gate had some fucking awful pathing, firewine bridge still gives me nightmares *shudder*, BG2 wasnt much better! Legend these games may be, however maybe it is time to put the rose tinted specs back in the case.
path finding?
lol
that's your beef?
Yes. BG is legends
DA is not. When you reach 0 health, you die. Why is that so hard to get for game devs? You don't magically get up after a battle where you were cut down thru the neck with a sword to the throat. And you don't don the wolverine healing factor after you get up and are able to fight at full strength 10 seconds later.
It's a dumbed down RPG to the max. In BG you paid for your mistakes and you learned from them
In DA who cares if your party dies, no emotional investment at all.
Pretty sure that's because BG/IWD/NWN etc. were fairly strict DnD rules, DA:O seems to just follow a different ruleset.
Hey I got no problem with them going a different route for a different game.
But attaching the name "baldur's gate" to this game as being anything in the same league as it, is just wrong.
If your a huge fan of DnD, and think baldur's gate is perhaps one of the best games of all time, to stray from what made it great and have something so obviously make no sense like having party members never die, in what is supposed to be an RPG...
It's so offensive to me to put the Baldur's Gate name out there, in an OBVIOUS attempt to bring in sales from old school gamers, then you don't even live up to the old school name by having game mechanics that make no fukking sense and are NOT old school.
shame on bioware for this abomination, it could have been a worthy successor to Baldur's Gate, but its clearly not.
The casual gamer rule set by the sound of it.
Any solo RPG should be better than a MMO at drawing the player in and telling a story. MMO’s are made for many players; they cannot come to a conclusion. Solo rpg’s are made for you as the main protagonist and can end till the next game is released. So any solo rpg that does not do a better job than a MMO in terms of making you feel part of the story and telling a great story has really missed the boat.
Leave to to some over-indulged baby to whine about a fantastic game. I would say no offense, but I want you to take offense.
Every time I see someone say, 'such and such didn't do anything new and blah blah' I always have to counter with: If you're such an expert on what would be new to this industry, then why aren't you out there doing it? Some of us are actually interested in getting into the industry to try to get some new ideas out there, are you? If not then you get to do two things - first, shut the hell up and second, go play something else. If all you're going to do is criticize in that oh-so common psuedo 'ima article writor!' attitude then you just need to stop because all it does is make you sound like a snob.
Nobody likes snobs. If you're having such a problem handling the controls in Dragon Age then I have to wonder how you are able to go through life. All it is is having DECENT multi-tasking skills with a bit of micro managing. You don't even have to be all that fast about it since you can freaking pause the game (spacebar for PC users). Sometimes the AI will freak out and go attack random stuff, but there are ways to change that. For instance, if you want to have your party follow the attack of whichever character you have selected then you can set that through tactics. You can even set to have certain party members follow the attacks of other party members by name.
People who complain about the controls in Dragon Age are just lazy, plain and simple. I spent maybe 15 minutes exploring all of the tactics and fell in love with the system. Which, by the way, the entire in-depth tactics system to incrementally control your party's AI is new. Other RPG's haven't had the ability to do so much with an AI. And if you're really so worried about not knowing what you have targeted then you clearly have larger problems. It's pretty obvious when a character lifts their weapon and then swings it in the EXACT direction of what they are attacking. Then on top of that damage ticks DIRECTLY over it in such a fashion that it is almost impossible to not be able to tell what is or is not taking damage.
I don't even play in the top-down camera mode which some people have claimed is the only way to effectively control everything. I set all the tactics exactly the way I need them so there is usually very little I have to do in terms of switching characters. There is so much you can do in the game it's still kind of mind boggling. There are multiple ways to handle a fight, any fight really. On my warrior character I have my part set up to the point where I can, if I want to, just power through most everything I run into. Two handed spec is almost disgustingly overpowered when combined with berzerker+templar and a set of knight-commander armor (adds a crap load of spell resist - it's beefed up templar armor). I digress though. Bottom line is that the majority of people bitching are over-indulged, lazy asses who really have no idea what they're doing and are easily confused. Here I'll say no offense because I know that's going to sound a lot more offensive than maybe I would like.
When people get confused by something that is too different than what they're used to they usually just lash out. Most of the people I know who have Dragon Age (people who aren't lazy or easily confused) have absolutely no idea what all these whine posts are talking about. I have the same problem because when people mention all these UI problems or some crap I just have no idea what they're talking about. I've maneuvered around while fighting the high dragon with each party member and I didn't have any problems....but again, I also make full use of the tactics system.
PS - Having a spirit healer and a bard around make most fights drastically easier. All the bard really needs is enough dex to use a good bow, song of valor, all the bow attacks and a bunch of cunning. Leliana is the easiest choice unless you piss her off which also means you won't be able to unlock bard. Doing everything in Dragon Age takes a long time. Meaning exploring 100% of the world and doing EVERYTHING. If all you've done in the game is just basically run through the entire blight quest without doing anything else then the chances are very good you missed a bunch of stuff. There's a lot of quests and the like you will not be able to do unless you find certain things laying around the world, some are items, some are people, some are those things you interact with.
I picked up DA:O as soon as i saw Bioware were making it, luckily i got the early access gift
So I installed it and then got teh Wardens keep DLC.
I have been hammering away at it like a dwarf hammering Lyrium, and have been having a blast, I like how the quest line kind of 'holds you hand' but then you find a mash of other stuff that you need your brain to figure out (summing ritual in Circle, Dead Legion in Dwarf, etc)
Even now I still stop what I am doing, click into the relevant section and try and figure out the quest.
I also like thats its possible to totally spanner your group by not completing subquests (the Sten quest for example)
Exactly.
you summed up my thoughts on this to the letter.
My "spanner" was cutting the assassin's throat rather than showing some mercy (bit out of character really :P). Still I will re-play the game, live and learn as they say :D
Nah, in BG, you saved the game, and just reloaded if too many party members died. DA does away with this unnecessary downtime. And in DA, when party members "awake" after falling in combat, they have permanent, stackable injuries that lower stats, and must be removed.
The "legendary" RPGs stopped being made by around 1990. The Wizardry series, Ultima series, those are truly legendary games.
I have been playing CRPGs for 25+ years. BG 1 and 2 were great games (not nearly the best) and DA, IMO, most certainly is a worthy spiritual successor to them, in every way and more.
Try taking off your rose colored glasses.
Why do you want Mike Laidlaw, Lead Designer of Dragon Age to get of the internet.
Mike next talked about what elements from MMOs Dragon Age took and how they used certain tools to make the player feel comfortable in the game. Mike explained that anyone making a fantasy game in today's marketplace cannot ignore MMOs and World of Warcraft specifically. He said that you are always competing against that juggernaut. He explained that what early MMOs gave WoW was the common user interface that all players have grown accustomed to. In the same way that Quake set the stage for FPS games, WoW has standardized the interface used to play RPG games. That interface was translated into Dragon Age specifically to make the player feel comfortable with the game. This way, players can dive right into the action and feel comfortable and confident. They can then go on to experience the more in depth parts of the game like story, the world, and character development.
Why do you want Mike Laidlaw, Lead Designer of Dragon Age to get of the internet.
Mike next talked about what elements from MMOs Dragon Age took and how they used certain tools to make the player feel comfortable in the game. Mike explained that anyone making a fantasy game in today's marketplace cannot ignore MMOs and World of Warcraft specifically. He said that you are always competing against that juggernaut. He explained that what early MMOs gave WoW was the common user interface that all players have grown accustomed to. In the same way that Quake set the stage for FPS games, WoW has standardized the interface used to play RPG games. That interface was translated into Dragon Age specifically to make the player feel comfortable with the game. This way, players can dive right into the action and feel comfortable and confident. They can then go on to experience the more in depth parts of the game like story, the world, and character development.
The way I read this is:
Mike next talked about what elements from MMOs Dragon Age took and how they used certain tools to make the player feel comfortable in the game. Mike explained that anyone making a fantasy game in today's marketplace cannot ignore MMOs and World of Warcraft specifically. He said that you are always competing against that juggernaut. He explained that what early MMOs gave WoW was the common user interface that all players have grown accustomed to. In the same way that Quake set the stage for FPS games, WoW has standardized the interface used to play RPG games. That interface was translated into Dragon Age specifically to make the player feel comfortable with the game. This way, players can dive right into the action and feel comfortable and confident. They can then go on to experience the more in depth parts of the game like story, the world, and character development.
Which means that WoW got its interface from the combined contributions of earlier MMO's and its contribution was to Standardise it, make it popular.
Hence, saying that Bioware copied WoW even in its Interface is false and inaccurate because it was not WoW's invention to begin with.
And last I checked using a Standard is the smart thing to do, why try to re-invent the wheel.
Therefore, Bioware in this passage is paying homage to WoW and Blizzard for establishing a standard which permited them to use for their own game.
It is courtesy, in my perception.
---
On a different note, while I beleive that Story in a Solo RPG is crucial and that Bioware has up to now been one of the greatest Creators of Solo RPG's...I do not agree that this same concept would apply to an MMORPG.
If for instance Dragon Age was an MMORPG instead of a Solo RPG...I would not be playing it, simply because it would feel like a Solo RPG game...why pay a sub to play such a game..first of all, and second, an MMORPG is about interaction and Adventuring within the RPG element with other players...not NPC's screaming the Story to every player individually and separatly...
I just feel that the MMORPG genre has been Invaded by the Solo RPG players who want to play an MMORPG for 4-6 months and reach the end of the story and the Character progression in that span of time and then move to the next MMORPG...
I feel the genre has lost its way and its essence...plain and simple.
Agreed, although I am slightly biased, seeing as Bioware employs a member of my family :P
Bioware has really hit the mark with DA:O, it is without a doubt the best single player rpg developed since the early 00's, and I think it will hold that title for the next few years. It is going to be very difficult to top what they have accomplished.
Epic doesn't even begin to describe the game, and the guy above who considers it a "generic setting" is clearly someone who just shouldn't play rpgs at all. You think LOTRO and DA:O have similar storylines because each story features an antagonist? That's as ridiculous as someone saying one book is the same as another just because they both have pages...
Dragon Age is truly a great game, but I don't know if I would say that its the best RPG since the early 00's seeing as I adore all BioWare's RPG's and can't wait for Mass Effect 2. I'm probably a bit different in my tastes though as I prefer the Sci-Fi genre to Fantasy so I'll always have KOTOR and Mass Effect very high on my personal RPG leaderboard. I can say, however, that Dragon Age is without a doubt the single best Fantasy RPG that I have ever played. Since picking it up I have had absolutely no desire to log into EVE or Aion and I don't think that I will be logging into either of them for a good few weeks to come, after all I have to try every origin a few times over, male/female, evil choices, good choices, and how I would actually react myself in any of these given situation (which usually tends to be pretty down-the-middle with a slight leaning to more of a 'renegade' style).
To be honset, I can't understand the people who buy a game like Dragon Age and rush through the main campaign once, ignoring all other possibilities and sidequests and then say the game is too short and is very linear, well duh! I think these people would be happier sticking to FPS and driving games imho :p
Nah, in BG, you saved the game, and just reloaded if too many party members died. DA does away with this unnecessary downtime. And in DA, when party members "awake" after falling in combat, they have permanent, stackable injuries that lower stats, and must be removed.
The "legendary" RPGs stopped being made by around 1990. The Wizardry series, Ultima series, those are truly legendary games.
So instead of being forced to come up with different ways to beat a certain battle, your whole party gets up and regens in 10 seconds?
"unnecessary" my ass. It's called "consequences" I fucked up, I have to start over....
Not.. I ran in there barely survived and now everyone has healing factors like wolverine.
It makes no fucking sense
How long before we get this in MMO's?
“Party wiped? Fear not, with DA (tm) rezzing technology our new MMO brings you all back if one survives.”
So casual you can play it in a coma.
Magic makes "sense"?
It works well in a single player RPG. I wonder how many of you have actually played the game before coming in here and ranting about something you haven't experienced for yourself?
It really has nothing to do with the game being "casual" or "hardcore".
You could definitely levy a number of criticisms against this game, but this is not one of them.
It works well in a single player RPG. I wonder how many of you have actually played the game before coming in here and ranting about something you haven't experienced for yourself?
It really has nothing to do with the game being "casual" or "hardcore".
You could definitely levy a number of criticisms against this game, but this is not one of them.
I have played the game, enjoyed it quite much till I realized death meant nothing.
immersion counts for something to some gamers...
I like to be able to relate to my games with something that would happen in real life.
and getting up and being fine after being so close to death is about as far away from immersion as one can get.
The
The mages help isn't garenteed as i took the templer side and killed all the mages including wynne. Also Sten tried to betray me and take charge of the group so i beat him down and now he follows me.
Remember this is a single rpg game. There is little incentive to keep players on for months on end. Death penalty of time is the now normal. Fallen toons also suffer debuffs (injuries) until you use a kit on them.
The other thing you have to consider : the Pause button. Can't do that in MMOs either. It is enjoyable, but can't go overboard comparing it to MMOs.
Overall the basic storyline is good. However, like I suspected, you can't account for the freedom many players enjoy. The game may let you vary paths a little, but it is eventually going to nudge or deny you actions if you don't move the story foward.
SW:TOR - will we expect the same?
I agree as well, I am a bit surpised that we are even discussing this game in MMORPG.com, I guess whatever is a Hype is good now days even if technically it does not belong here.
On the other hand, DAO made me think about MMORPG's as well, and helped me define what it is I really dislike in a Modern MMORPG.
And In my opinion, it is strongly related to the fact that modern MMORPGs are designed from a single player perspective...not unlike a solo RPG game but Massive....and that is why they fail in my opinion.
When I play a Solo RPG game I am transported in to the fantasy Setting where I play the role of the Stories "Hero", it is like being given the leading role in a movie, and I try my best to carry him or her to the end of the story.
Within an MMORPG setting however, the dynamic simply Cannot be the same. We cannot all be given the leading role, yet we all have to have one nevertheless.
I feel like many modern MMORPGs, specially the Themepark ones, try to do just that, handing our the leading role to everyone, and that makes them non imersive because they present to all the players a Utopian Existence.
An MMORPG is first and foremost a world in which many people exist in and interact with one another, the game has to provide the tools for these people and within the desired setting so people can choose the role they want to occupy, but the game should not hand the role to the player in my opinion. The dynamics of interaction should be what determines which players get to be heroes or not, based on their own initiative actions and undertaking during shared adventures and situations within the virtual world that they share with their peers.
Of course, not everyone, like in RL becomes a hero, but everyone unlike RL has the opportunity to, and most importantly everyone does get to occupy a given role of their liking. Some people simply do like to be heroes and prefer to be the sidekicks or play a supportive role to the heroes, and thus, how is an MMO satisfying to these players when it makes everyone a Hero?
That is I beleive what made a most lasting impact to me in Ultima Online, that MMORPG was designed in such a way as to leave Heroship up to natural dynamics of the in game community of players. In every new adventure that impacted the players there were always heroes that stood out, and it was not always the same people either, but all of them were (within the cotext of the game) true heroes...and it is what I also beleive has been lost from the design of MMORPG's...as these got boxed in to pre-canned design, where heroship is just handed to everyone pending them completing a series of mondane actions such as a quest, leveling, killing an NPC boss etc...all things kin to a Solo RPG game...that should have no place in an MMORPG.
I agree as well, I am a bit surpised that we are even discussing this game in MMORPG.com, I guess whatever is a Hype is good now days even if technically it does not belong here.
On the other hand, DAO made me think about MMORPG's as well, and helped me define what it is I really dislike in a Modern MMORPG.
And In my opinion, it is strongly related to the fact that modern MMORPGs are designed from a single player perspective...not unlike a solo RPG game but Massive....and that is why they fail in my opinion.
When I play a Solo RPG game I am transported in to the fantasy Setting where I play the role of the Stories "Hero", it is like being given the leading role in a movie, and I try my best to carry him or her to the end of the story.
Within an MMORPG setting however, the dynamic simply Cannot be the same. We cannot all be given the leading role, yet we all have to have one nevertheless.
I feel like many modern MMORPGs, specially the Themepark ones, try to do just that, handing our the leading role to everyone, and that makes them non imersive because they present to all the players a Utopian Existence.
An MMORPG is first and foremost a world in which many people exist in and interact with one another, the game has to provide the tools for these people and within the desired setting so people can choose the role they want to occupy, but the game should not hand the role to the player in my opinion. The dynamics of interaction should be what determines which players get to be heroes or not, based on their own initiative actions and undertaking during shared adventures and situations within the virtual world that they share with their peers.
Of course, not everyone, like in RL becomes a hero, but everyone unlike RL has the opportunity to, and most importantly everyone does get to occupy a given role of their liking. Some people simply do like to be heroes and prefer to be the sidekicks or play a supportive role to the heroes, and thus, how is an MMO satisfying to these players when it makes everyone a Hero?
That is I beleive what made a most lasting impact to me in Ultima Online, that MMORPG was designed in such a way as to leave Heroship up to natural dynamics of the in game community of players. In every new adventure that impacted the players there were always heroes that stood out, and it was not always the same people either, but all of them were (within the cotext of the game) true heroes...and it is what I also beleive has been lost from the design of MMORPG's...as these got boxed in to pre-canned design, where heroship is just handed to everyone pending them completing a series of mondane actions such as a quest, leveling, killing an NPC boss etc...all things kin to a Solo RPG game...that should have no place in an MMORPG.
Very well said.
My beef with RPG's that are not mmo's is that there is a dumbing down, playing to the instant gratification crowd. I'm old school, you work hard you get somewhere, you screw up, you get punished.
The Broodmother fight was awesome. Dragon Age has been a blast so far. The game is simply alot of fun.
My comment was not about DA, not played it, but the games genre is such that if any game does really well then everything from it is lifted for new games coming out. MMO's take from solo games and visa versa. So the one party member stays up followed my a magical all jump up is on the cards for a MMO now. And that would fit the casual mentality in MMO's that is so prevalent.
I'd have to say Modern Warfare 2... but yeah it's hard to evade Dragon Age hype. EA sure spent some $ for the marketing...
Well at least the hype is backed up by the game. The DLC is great too, I just finished the Warden Keep and I have to say it was well worth the $7. No spoilers so go out and get it.
Not Boring,Snooorrinnggg
The controls were horrid, I think I sprained 3 fingers 2 thumbs and broke a toe trying to navigate the roads.
Got too love an epic movie length worth of cut scenes before you reach level 3.
System ? Nah, was not brutal,whomever at Bioware told an earlier poster to upgrade his OS...rule of thumb, if they say " Hi, My name is Ted how may I help you" and it sounds like " haloo...muh nam ees Ted, how mahy I hap yoo" then consider asking him if he is also an AT and T rep and go to your forums for help.
Game ran fine on my side box, my TS box of all things. Duo 2300 with a x206
But anyway
Snooorrriiinnnggggg
Sorry you didn't like it, sounds like mmo grindfests are more your thing.
I have to agree.
Also, I find it funny that people are complaining about advertising. How many times have I seen players lament that a game company doesn't advertise their game of choice?
We can't have it both ways. Advertising is advertising. And besides, it is in their best interest to advertise it.
In any case, I just finished it and I had a great time. I have a few more characters to bring through and then I will look at the one downloadable quest. I have no interest in the golem or the armor and am really only interested in quests. Can't wait to see what else they release.
I fail to see how the downloadable "premium" content is an immersion killer. And 7/10 for the story? What are you comparing it to? It certainly doesn't sound like you and I are playing the same game. It just shows you can't please all the people all the time. I suppose there will always be a minority of people who are so hard to please that to try is a waste of time. I'm glad they don't try. :P
2 quick points
1. I like the game but I don't care for the premium content thing, or the "ok I'll help you let me download it and return" thing. Don't lead into a quest and then leave out the content from the game. Bad move IMO
2. If you can't run this game on a dual core system with 4 gigs of ram its a PICNIC problem (PICNIC = problem in chair not in computer) I play it just fine on a Intel P4 3.0ghz HT with 2gig of ram and a 9800GT video card. No I'm not running on highest settings but I'm not running lowest eather, most of my settings are set to normal or above.
If you don't give props to some of what DA:O does,your either A) Moron B)Hater that hasn't played the game.
The game is utterly amazing. Best game I've picked up in years. Done with MMO's for a bit.
Thats very odd, my machine is going on 4 years old, Amd dual core..Nvidia 7600 GT and it ran fine? I have 3 gigs of ram, but Win Xp supposedly doesn't recognize the third gig.
Not sure whats going on with your machine, but I have played through Dragon Age three times thus far, with no problems whatsoever.
Agreed, although I am slightly biased, seeing as Bioware employs a member of my family :P
Bioware has really hit the mark with DA:O, it is without a doubt the best single player rpg developed since the early 00's, and I think it will hold that title for the next few years. It is going to be very difficult to top what they have accomplished.
Epic doesn't even begin to describe the game, and the guy above who considers it a "generic setting" is clearly someone who just shouldn't play rpgs at all. You think LOTRO and DA:O have similar storylines because each story features an antagonist? That's as ridiculous as someone saying one book is the same as another just because they both have pages...
I love your response and have to wonder if the person complaining that DA:O is a generic setting...didn't choose all the "safe" choices instead of experimenting and trying other options. It "could" be a game that came off that way if you only chose generic paths. :)
Played 3 times through..chose different endings, have to say the first time through I got emotionally involved...good story and thats a fact. :)
Yes and no. If we were all in an office together, we'd pick things up is my point.
The general point is: the editorial team never discusses ads with the advertising team. Period.
Perhaps some interdepartmental communication would do you guys some good then. Question, do the writers LOOK at the site? You do know the ads for Dragon Age were up far in advance of the article right?
Do you guys not run the articles by Craig and Ben? How much input do they have on what you guys write about? Just curious.
Did they not know that might come across looking like more paid advertising?
How important is it for mmorpg.com to have the appearance of journalistic integrity? I'm not mocking here, I'm being serious, because if appearing to have journalistic integrity is important on this site, I have to say you're failing.
Why would they care? If you don't like it..don't look at the ads. Wow advertises here all the time..and so??? Many other games advertise here and so???
This is a nitpick.
Well boss I don't actually care, but I'd like to point out:
Purely by coincidence, and thus not in the button list, but still having a psychological effect was the DA-related comic that I saw on loading the front page. Collectively it was DA overload.
Now maybe you don't know anything more about it than we do, and I'm generally inclined to believe that you don't on a professional level, but you do have to admit that it's a perfect storm of coincidence.
With that said I don't personally care if it is all arranged or not. I find their (apparent) attempt to connect DA's success with SW TOR quite frankly amusing.
If SW TOR is anything like DA then:
Bioware is as cliche as anime. The bad guy is always obvious. The betrayals are always obvious. The plot points are always the same. The same character archetypes are always used. The only thing that we're missing is the blue spikey hair.
Good thing I like anime then.
Um you forgot to use the tactics screen on each character to set up what they'll do? I set tactics up to instruct the AI exactly what I want them to do...basically have them all protecting each other and my main. Sometimes I leave my main doing what I have programmed her to do...and I work with the healer..for battles such as as attempting to kill the Sloth demon in
The Fade for instance. Stop what they are doing? Heck they even heal themselves I have them set up to drink health poultices if their health goes down to a certain per centage. I don't get what you are talking about at all. Bioware has set up some extremely good AI there, all you have to do is take advantage of it.
One other thing, I have found if I failed a battle...that I had to review my tactics, and yes sometimes the cutscenes CAN be annoying, but I have found if I can hit pause and save after the cutscene but before any bloodshed takes place I can avoid seeing the cutscene over and over...but you have to be right quick about it. Otherwise it doesn't work. :P
It really has nothing to do with Smart people vs Stupid people.
It has to do with Good User Interface Design vs Mediocre or Bad UI design.
It has to do with making things easy for the user so that the UI becomes almost transparent and is something that the user does not even think about while they play, yet all the information they need is available to them with as little manual input as possible.
Well I have to agree with you there..an auto target would be nice, and who knows...Bioware has already implemented TWO bug patches thus far, maybe we'll get an improved UI as time goes on. They released on November 3, its now the 20th and already two patches to an rpg game. Never seen that before, seems to me when I played Oblivion it took a long time to get patches improving things, and then it was modders improving stuff mostly.
Oh one other wish I would want to see is a second toolbar even if you had to click it to make it show, so that I could add more skills..hehe but its not a must, just something that occurred to me while playing. Currently you really have a decision as to what is most useful and what you think you "might" be able to do without. Reminds me of Guild Wars...having to decide before battle what you were bringing to the table so to speak, but not knowing before the pvp contest started what your opponents would be like. Guessing game. Its okay I guess, just a wish for the future. :)
You will not find better RPG game out there anytime soon. Its a diffrent kinda game to the crawlers - but its built on the same gameplay as pretty much every Bioware RPG. This includes the handeling of death - wounds (witch are the death penalty) and the stop/start spacebar feature.
Its not a perfect game - but by far the best out for very long time. Hopefully we will see more content released soon.
As far as DAO and MMOS. I would not like the game as MMO in current form. Its got a single player RPG written all over it and thats how it should be. And it is a RPG... Not a mindless MMO experience where all your actions are worth zero. Even if you piss off every single person on your server - ninja loot - call ppl names - You simply transfer to another server, changes look - even faction - and whooola... you can start again...
I have played the game, enjoyed it quite much till I realized death meant nothing.
immersion counts for something to some gamers...
I like to be able to relate to my games with something that would happen in real life.
and getting up and being fine after being so close to death is about as far away from immersion as one can get.
Methinks if fantasy has to be like real life....that totally destroys the whole idea of fantasy does it not? :P
I like fantasy to be fantasy...which includes an ability to suspend disbelief. That means in suspending my disbelief, magic exists and party members DO get up after the battle is over...if one managed to survive. :)