The List: Five IPs to Bring in a New Demographic
In this week's list, Jon Wood looks at five IPs that, by taking the focus off of combat systems, might bring a new demographic of users to the genre.
Column By Jon Wood on October 20, 2009
When I originally sat down to formulate this week's list, I was going to call it - Five MMO IPs to bring in a female audience. Then, I thought better of it. First, because putting a title like that on a list is basically asking for controversy, then I'd spend the next week reading about how sexist I am. Second, because it would have been a misleading title. While I suppose that the demographic most missing from a lot of current style MMOs might be female, I think that there are probably a good number of men who fit into the category as well.
In order to explain the point of this list a little bit better, I'd like everyone to take a trip back in time with me back to the playground. If you look at the way that children play, there are essentially two kinds. The first, which is more stereotypically ascribed to males, is competitive and often at least slightly combat-oriented, whether it's tag, or the ever controversial cowboys and Indians, king of the mountain or something else. The second, which is more commonly ascribed to females, is cooperative, non-competitive and is explicitly non-combat related often involving group goals.
As of the writing of this article, there are 396 games currently residing on our Game List. An overwhelming number of those games have one, single primary focus: combat. Yes, these games have other features but they are all designed to work in concert with the game's central focus: its combat system. There's a reason for that. It's an easy and familiar focal point in terms of features in an MMO. That and the fact that, traditionally, video games are built around combat systems.
Now, the purpose of this list isn't to rattle off five IPs that wouldn't use any combat at all. In fact, for a lot of these, a combat system would be a nice addition. However, these IPs would not require the developers to make combat the core mechanic of the game and would therefore, in theory, open the genre up to a more diverse audience than currently exists.
#5 The Sims
;)
Now, I know the first thing you're going to say is the The Sims Online was already an MMO, and a failed MMO at that. While this is true, I, and many others, never really felt like The Sims Online properly captured the spirit of what has made The Sims one of the most enduring video game franchises of all time.
One of the major successes of The Sims has always been the fact that it has drawn in players who would never otherwise have considered themselves to be gamers. Guys, how many of your non-gaming significant others play or have played this game with the same kind of fervor that you put into your current MMO? It's likely because The Sims offers players challenges other than to kill the opposition. Instead, it allows players to set their own goals for themselves and their characters, build houses, excel at careers and interact with neighbors doing exactly the same thing. Basically, it's a real-life simulator that's easier to control.
In any case, there were a number of reasons that the original Sims Online failed, including the fact that it became kind of a creepy haven for stalkerish guys to frequent, but I think that done properly, a Sims Online using the most modern build of the game could help to attract a different kind of player to the realm of MMOs.
;)
#4 Nancy Drew / Hardy Boys
The MMO landscape is oddly clear of any mystery genre based games. Once again, I think that probably has something to do with the fact that in classic mysteries, like the Nancy Drew and Hardy Boys franchise, combat simply isn't an option. There would be significant challenges for any developer who might choose to take on this particular genre. Removing combat almost entirely from the MMO landscape is a difficult thing to do. You have to replace that conflict with something. In this case, it would be mystery.
As the gateway for many of us into the mystery genre, Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys would be an ideal candidate for this kind of MMO treatment. It could skew a little bit younger, and would certainly give a bit of a nostalgic pop for those of us who grew up with those series quite some time ago.
In any case, a title like this could certainly serve to bring in a wider audience and introduce a larger number of people to the concept of a virtual world.
More The List Features:
More Columns:
More Features:
#5 The Sims - I do agree that it should have not failed as it did but i think it was to clean at some things and didn't let you explore various senerios for some exotic stuff. The rest i agree with your assesment.
#4 Nancy Drew / Hardy Boys - Not many people these days know of this series, but the mystery writing that the shows provided were sub par to the books which translated for better material. Otherwise i have nothing else to conclude.
#3 Star Trek - Well we will just have to wait and see how this turns out.
#2 LEGO - can be a popular and casual game with lots of fun if they do not limit the players ability to become any of the job choices that LEGO has popularized through out their fantasy land sets. Hard thing is balancing those different fantasy lands be it scifi, medieval or pirate lands.
#1 Harry Potter - I'll reserve judgement at a later date.
Not a bad list, interesting choices i do agree.
Thank God you put Harry Potter at the top of this list. It's about time this idea caught on. I've been trying to get people interested in an MMO niche for Harry Potter and I think you putting it at the top of this list will help. I can't thank you enough.
Regarding your comments on the Star Trek IP, I think its a shame that it has to be a choice between a focus on the combat and a focus on everything else Star Trek was about. I know it would be a hugely big project but Star Trek is a hugely big IP. Worth the effort.
A really good read. I used to have a great time as Entertainer in SWG. Even tho I also had a combat character as well. I never understood why this model, which was very popular, never was applied to any other MMO. Indeed we see a way too big emphasis on combat. I mean I love combat, but a MMO with ONLY combat is somewhat dull. I feel the way Star Trek went is a HUGE missed opportunity. They could have made some onboard social environment similar to the entertainers in SWG, just adapted to the Trek universe. Look at the ongoing stories of TNG or DS9. Or Babylon 5 if you like.
No idea why this never was picked up. :(
God yes, they need a Harry Potter MMO. I don't care if it's aimed at the younger crowd <.<.
I have to say, if done right, the harry potter universe would make an excellent MMO.
I'd just rather no one rushed into the concept.
For a bit there, I was worried someone would try to latch into the HP craze and develop an MMO...
is wizard101 not considered a MMO ?
One of the biggest rumors in the mmo industry is that Turbine is developing Harry Potter online.. so speculating that it is number 1 isn't exactly rocket science..
A LEGO MMO which focused on finding pieces and building and tearing apart creations could be a ton of fun. I would not be interested in just a standard MMO with a LEGO look to it.
"Let go of my nubby brick-blocks!" - bonus nerd points to anyone who can tell me the source of this quote.
How about Pokemon? Doubt I would play it, but with the collection aspect (PvE) and the duals it seems like an obvious choice for an MMO.
I would like to see something on the horror front and I think Underworld might be a good choice for an RvR game with Vampires vs Lycans vs Humans.
Seems you forgot Harry Potter Online was already attempted and failed to see fruition.
While it would be interesting to see a mystery MMO, the biggest challenge in bringing any mystery IP to the MMO world wouldn't lie in finding the right IP, or in avoiding combat elements - it would be in keeping the mystery. Once a particular riddle has been solved once, then you can be damn sure you'll be able to find answers on the internet somewhere. With no actual mysteries to work out (because they've already been solved), the non-combat, mystery game would lose it's fun factor, and fast.
I think that if properly done, a Pokémon MMO could actually be a lot of fun - considering the complexity of the original gameboy games, and everything added after, as well as the size of the pokémon world, the 'built-in pvp' aspect (which could be done surprisingly grief-free), and all the collection and creature-build aspects, there would be something in an MMO like this to appeal to pretty much any type of gamer... Main question is if the Pokémon IP is still strong enough, and popular enough, to warrant investing millions into creating an MMO version.
As for your suggestion with an Underworld game, there's already two games like that in the works: The Secret World, by FunCom, and World of Darkness, by CCP and White Wolf. Especially the latter will fit what you speculated on (vampires, werewolves, reality-bending mages, ghosts and fae)
I have to agree, an MMORPG geared for adults, but not geared towards combat could possibly bring in an entirely new demographic not seen in these games before.
Sims was a good example, Myst would be another. MMORPG's might be able to resurrect the Adventure genre in some fashion, especially if coupled with a good world to explore.
What ever happene to the Pokemon MMO that was in production?
I think World of Darkness is being created by CCP
I also think HP would be a great MMO. Overall I would like a MMO thats not centered on combat sometimes so I could chill out etc and it would bring a new group of players to mmo's.
Really? Never heard about it! Who was creating it?
What about a wild west MMO?
Why do we need a new demographic again? I say we teach the old one how to play first...
Interesting list, 4 of these geared right for the kids.
While would not e interested in any of these with the exception of Star Trek, I found the list made me laugh.
He he oh well.
Civilizations or Alpha Centauri would make a cool MMO. Not sure about the whole demographics thing though.
LEGOs aren't just for kids, BTW. I still build things with them, from time to time. It's quite relaxing.
As was mentioned, something from the Horror genre is definitely a better choice than picking out several pieces of IP that are in development already or have already failed. The suggesion of Underworld is definitely a good one.
That said, I've always chuckled to myself at the thought of "Smurfs and Snorks Online". Gargamel as the Lich King anyone? LOL. I dunno, if done tongue-in-cheek, but well, it could be a lot of fun and could easily bring in both sexes of a much older Demographic. We'd obviously have to abandon the "only 1 smurfette" bit.
And regarding mystery, I wonder if it wouldn't be better to turn to Hanna Barbera and assemble a team of caroon favorites like Scooby Doo. I loved the Hardy Boys growing up, but they're just not as well known as Scooby and Shaggy. Any mystery game would be highly linear, though, and require a lot of writers. Once a mystery is solved, onto a cheat website it goes.
I'd have to give it some thought as to what other ideas would be good. But that's just a start.
Need to add a 6th IP. A Porno MMO or XXXMMORPG. Real adult gaming at its finest.
Out of those on your list the only one that interests me would be the non-combat-first Star Trek. I could, however, see a desire for the others.
They already have one.. google Red Light Center lol.
I have to agree with you on Star Trek. When I think of Star Trek, I think about exploring the universe. You know: "Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations — to boldly go where no man has gone before."
I think they should make an mmo that starts in the beginning and through exploring, research, discovering new things, etc.. the game advances from there.
See - the thing is - does Cryptic have an exclusive license for a Trek MMO? Is it even possible for another Trek MMO to be released while the abombination known as STO is alive?
While I would like to see a mystery mmo I kind of had the same thought as above. I was never a big Hardy Boys fans vs some of the others that were out at the same time (something about a garbage dump secret hideout clubhouse) and would say a Scooby Doo mmo would bring in those that recognize the name and allow some supernatural elements (even if in the end it wasn't).
Having said that I'd rather see a mystery mmo based off of Adam-12 or Dragnet. Using the term mystery to mean finding out who did the crime. You pick an NPC partner that specializes in X skill (underworld contacts, finance etc...), pick a crime and go investigate.
I know we're trying to stay away from combat, but using one of the old cop shows as a template (more thinking, less shooting back then) you could have a low chance (1%?) that you might be invoived in PVE. I think that alone would help to bring new and experienced gamers to the plate.
Was out of the ordinary and quite enjoyful, i hope you guys write similar articles like this in the future!
Id like to see a Mechwarrior MMO, and I am fine with the audience we have now, I see no way in hell that little girls are going to play Nancy fracking Drew in an MMO format.
What we need is a generation of men with balls who can HTFU and be disciplined enough to succeed in mmos like EVE (we need more hardcore like that, not little girl detectives)
MechWarrior would be magnificent since the universe is deep and would allow for alliance, clan and individual PvP (PvE is for weak people). Through in some licensing with Thrustmaster for MechWarrior specific sticks and you have Gamer heaven.
While I think MMOs and episodic games are the future of PC Gaming (i made this prediction before WoW and Half-life 2) I hope to see more DEEP and HARDCORE mmos, not light fare as this article seems to suggest.
Harry Potter could be interesting if it is not made PG-13, the books are very adult in many themes and removing these would be a mistake.
The biggest omission in PC Gaming history is the fact that there is no Doctor Who MMO, WTF?! This would be so perfect and there is DECADES of material for it.
Think of the possibilities, WORKING your way up to being a companion (if you are lucky) and if you become one of the games top players you get transformed into a Time Lord. more games need to focus on accomplishment, and things that take months or even years to do.
I'll go back to EVE now, enjoy, lol.
Yours in Hardcore Grognard Plasma,
Star*Dagger
I would love to see an MMO based upon H.P. Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos (his and others' writings). Might be tough to get the full experience (which almost always ends in death or insanity), but tracking down clues, exploring lost ruins in Central and Southern America, Africa, the Orient, etc... where you find odd clues to lost civilizations that might not have been human, or so lost sounds like a lot of fun to me.
That and/or 1920-40's Pulp or even one Based on Film Noir from the that time for the mystery end. Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew would seem to skew a little young for my taste. Hard-boiled Private Eyes, police detectives, armature sleuths, and spies etc... Quests could be to find missing items (Maltese Falcon), missing people (The Thin Man), root out a nest of Axis spies (13 Steps), or solve a murder (Most every Agatha Christie story or Alfred Hitchcock mystery). Minimal combat, maximum find and put the clues together.
Great list :).
I think there could of been quite a number of good top 5 games you could of put up.
I think, with some others - Pokemon should of been within the top 5.
For Pokemon, sure there is combat with levels and so forth, but due to all the new content and addtions that the series have put into place is that its not just combat anymore but a lifestyle of breeding, training, fashion, play and other things. Personally for myself i love MMOs and i have played at least all of them at one stage in my life even if it has been for a couple days to check it out - im a curious MMO gamer who likes trying everything lol.
But as i was 12 at the time when Pokemon was in its prime, i still think Pokemon still has a good amount of momentum to justify a MMO to not only bring in the fans of the series still, but to bring in the gamers who have been looking for a game like Pokemon but have not admit to wanting to playing it single player on gameboy. The Asian market is much higher in terms of Pokemon (according to a new news artical for Pokemon Heart/Soul) - I dont know how the western market is going with in terms of popularity.
Other than Pokemon, i think a good Mech game, properly done like i guess Mech Warrior? It would more than likely be combat orientated but incorporate more trading/crafting and possibly politics more aswell. But in terms of bringing new demograpgic audiance to the genre of MMO, i think it would do the trick. Alot of possiblity - if done right.
With any MMO IP - It being Harry Potter, Star Trek, Pokemon, Mech Warrior - anything - It as to be done right...what surprisingly is very hard to alot of developers...some get it totally wrong, others get half way there while some are close to it but just out of reach.
I personally can't wait for lets say a 5-10 year range and see what type of MMO's will be created and released. Im hoping by that time technology and the minds of the developers have rised to a new level that would finally bring a new experience that everyone can enjoy - will be calling it the next-gen mmo i guess.
But we shall see - time will tell :). Till then all we can do is wish and hope something good comes out of all these articals and discussions on the forums that maybe the devs will intake all the info from the customers that something good will come out in the next few years.
I'm a girl and I wouldn't play a single MMO on this list. Whenever they design games for us they always make horrendous stereotypical boring games.
MMO's are for girls anyway. You get a virtual doll and get to dress it up in a ton of pretty clothes. In most you can get married, form relationships and yes there is combat, girls like the combat to.
Designing things purely for one demographic isolates a entire demographic. Just blend the best of both worlds into one game and everyone will be happy.
A lego mmo has been in development for the last 3 years. http://universe.lego.com
Granted I am not a girl, but just from what I have seen games made for girls are always pretty poorly done. I think the devs that are mostly made up of men would think lets make it cute and add lots of pink, the girls will love it.
As far as mmos go I think the biggest drawback is the comunities themselves. Hard to do form relationships and get married in a game like you said when everyone is just in the mentality of getting better gear, and being very competitive. So really in order to bring more people into these games, we need a way to foster and get a nice mature cominuty where everyone is welcome, and people can play how they want to play.
There's a weekly top five ist (if I'm right) and I highly doubt this is going to do anything to help get an mmo developed for the game maybe it's my desire to preserve my hobby for myself but I'm not looking forward to the day when my daughter is playing a HP mmo while telling me that TOR is lame....
You might not have to wait all that long for the second part of that to happen.
Harry Potter = Wizard101
I get a Raging Clue just thinking about a Hardy Boys MMO.
I always thought if you must have a sci-fi, space opera combat game, Star Trek would be the last on my list. Sure, DS-9 had combats but it simply paled in comparison to another series from the same time: Babylon 5.
Now that would be a killer IP to have as an MMO. Real combat, races that looked and where radically different (instead of the just having a wierd set of ears or nose). And the feeling of unpredictability dread and hope at the same time that no other space opera has ever had.
And I would love to fly a Vorlon ship...
I don't think a Harry Potter MMO will ever happen. The most this IP will ever see is cheesy console games based off the *movies*. It's a shame really and I hope I'm wrong.
One can only hope though.
Well the people who play the Mechwarrior games also play MMOs. Especially now, since there hasn't been a new Mech title in almost a decade.
I'm an example of that. I played MW4 online for about 3 years and after burn out set in I moved straight to the MMO genre and have been here ever since. The article here is talking about pulling in ppl who are fans of IPs that don't even know what a MMO is or probably haven't played a video game since the late 80's (nancy drew fans for example.)
The only comment I have for this is combine the ideas of the Hardy Boys/ Nancy Drew concept with Harry Potter and you would have a winner.
Basically Harry Potter was less about combat andmore about mysteries that needed solving.
I still want a real DDO. Make a tabletop gaming MMO.
I agreed with all but three of your choices. I there should be a Star Trek MMORPG as you described and not the combat oriented one. Second the Harry Potter IP MMORPG if done should be done by Blizzard. Nobody else could do it justice. ^_^
I love the anonymity of forums so I can say this without fear of my coworkers finding out...Gimme a Harry Potter MMO and I'll never leave the house...oh wait...
Although I think an exploration/diplomacy-oriented Star Trek Online game would be awesome, I doubt it's feasible. I'd rather see that being made into a deep single player game.
HP Lovecraft would make a beastly MMO if done right, it's too bad it's not on this list since it wouldn't really be about fighting.
As for the Potter universe, I'd love to see a game (once again I think single player or Neverwinter Nights-type of multiplayer) where you start as a first year student at a magic school and live your way through the years until graduation. Definitely not something easy to create as an MMO but I think it would offer the most interesting setting. Expansions could expand the world after graduation offering different jobs, etc.
For these three IPs, I think they can all be made into very interesting games with little emphasis on combat. Force people to use their heads for a change, mysteries and social interaction for the win!
there are many types of players that can be described as being mostly one type more than others
WARMONGER: Thes guys are out for the action be it hack and slash or race cars
ROLEPLAYER: this type loces delving into their alternate persona and getting immersed in this alternate life and all that surounds it
SOCIALIZER: this type of player loves grouping and chating with other people sometimes doing nothing else in game except maby crafting or farming or other semi focused endever.
PUZZLER: this type loves mysteries and puzzles possibly agility chalanges and the like
BUILDER: this type of player tends to love crafting and changing the world be it a house or road or bridge or tower
ACHIEVER: this person likes leveling getting awards and achieveing goals especially the recognition badges medals reputation.
EXPLORER: this type of player likes to explore the world and discover all there is to discover usually including the systems of the game
HELPER: this type of person wants to get into a position skill or level wise to be able to assist other players
LEADER: this type of player wants to be in a position of authority organizing or comanding other players many are kin leaders sinse thare are usually no king or bishop or mage master positions available in that MMOs like to think of their worlds.
the TRUMP this type is out to own everything houses castles ships have 30 million in gold in the bank have a private army luxury is an understatement.
sadly most games focus almost entirly on the combat, even the economy is based on weapons and armor and all important crafts are combat based.. actually many real crafts are life based usually the processing of foodstuff and storage such as pottery and basket weaving
just think of crossing a derert in most MMOs when water is trivial so is the trip accross a desert and there missing out on so much possible intrinsic game content hell the trip is half the quest! its like,, do you try to carry enough supplies? do you detour to oasis or wells along the way? do you hire someone that can find or summon water? jorses? or camels? or on foot? just to name a few
warmongers say that this stuff gets in the way of their killin and is boring (and true a bad developer can make this a living hell) but just like a good GM great content can make the walls melt away.
FOOD is allways one of the prime things I look for in an MMO,, how important is it? is it practical and fit in the genra? is it more than just a buff
weather and climate ive yet to see seasons in a game let alone that effect the charactors and what they wear.
MMOs tend to be rather small and their scope is narrow few if any have working siege engines or boats/ships I cant think of any where the ENDGAME is anything more than infine raid grind or PVP
and ALL MMOs are boringly STATIC no mater how many mobs you kill or bosses you banish the world is allways the same there isnt even any fake changes or shifts
also MMOS have a total lack of DRAMA. just look at any decent movie, tv show or novel and you will see gobs of drama
players rarly bond with a game because there isnt anything for them to bond with, burn down their home town and they could care less they either just get out of the way or they kill "for the EXP" (boy talk about derailing the roleplay train) ask a local cop why he killed that robber and I doubt he will say for the expirence and the phat loot!
look up a failed game called SEED
great idea.. absolutly terrible development
the theme was more of a teraforming fronteer colinization type of thing..
you wake up (kind of a clone or tube baby) and your in a huge crashed colony/teraforming ship distruction everywhere things need repair and maintence supplies need to be discovered and organized and so forth this game ultimatly progresses to move outside and or underground,, players know nearly nothing about the planet they are on or its star system it could be earth like or totally alien even which way is north (if there is a north) isnt known or the weather,, what you can eat,, if there is intelligent life
Harry Potter Online was in development at Origin.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_14/87-The-Conquest-of-Origin.4
I'd like to see a Legacy of Kain MMO... or at least a movie series.
Great list! Its unfortunate but the real issue boils down to who has enough management and team able to pull of a successful release. IP means nothing if the MMO is flubbered.
I would really like to see a good Trek MMO.
Ken
What a cop out, call the article what it is “Five MMO IPs to bring in a female audience”. Grow a pair and say it as it is.
We can already see the influence of women on the MMO genre. Food, housing and cuteness are all their legacy, one I am rather ambivalent too. I have noticed we have to thank them for the drive for character customisation too, non are more vocal than they, and that is a MMO element I regard as important.
You could certainly enhance the social aspect of MMO’s without detriment to the combat element. Take your MMO housing space and turn that into a version of the Sims. On its own server if need be.
Can any MMO which is not supposedly going to pull in every demographic get funding these days? I doubt it, but as he said he is waxing lyrical.
Oh and Girls are not as interested as boys in Lego. It is a cause of hang wringing by social worthies at schools who just can’t accept that men and women are different. :)
Nice list Im gonna comment what kind a people this would bring:
5) Virtual Realm social porn masturbaters and teen whores(last was true in old sims online).
4) Who the hell is Nancy Drew???
3) Uber nerds, do we really need more of them?
2) Middle aged mens (seriously have you ever seen woman near legos?) who think they are kids.
1) Pedobears with Emma Watson posters
LOL, I was trying to think of something and then read your post, DITTO.
I just love journos and their view that an IP will bring change and shallow depth of even trying to describe what is needed in MMOs. For me I just need an MMO that;
1. Isn't an IP - They alsways screw them up
2. Fresh Ideas - Even with a bad B-Movie we can look back and remember how bad something was, yet when we do, there was something fresh and fuzzy about them.
3. Isn't some alter-ego of some Dev that thinks he knows what I want before they give any facts or for that matter, asked me what I want and why I'm leaving. - Want detailed details, ingame shots, information about what I'm getting into and not some half baked Gold Farming dream MMO
4. Is not a copycat sandbox game based around WoW, EvE, War or some other lame attempt at a computer game with no context - Give me a place to enjoy on my terms
5. If all the books in the world were attempted to be translated into every language we could enjoy more entertainment. - Just because something sells a gazillion copies doesn't mean it HAS to have an MMO or Movie made!
I thought I'd try 5 to fit into your theme of your article. I am just so sick of hearing WHAT IS NEEDED as much as NEXT GENERATION GAME, at least you might consider taking one topic and exploring options seeking further discussion rather than a bland coverup of the same 'ol @#$%
While I agree those are good IPs and love the concept of a Harry Potter MMO (especially if you started in a school of your choice, and grew up during the course of the game), I think there are some other IPs you totally missed.
There are a wealth of traditional pen and paper rpgs that could easily be adapted to an MMO. World of Darkness stuff, Rifts, Cyberpunk, the list goes on and on. There's some genres that would fit really well with an MMO and aren't associated with an IP at all. Steampunk, Wild West, Civil War or any war really. Or how about old games that could be made into a MMO, such as Might and Magic, Elder Scrolls (yes I know the later versions had the feel of an MMO, but it wasn't an MMO), and others.
The thing is, damn near anything can be made into an MMO. The problem seems to be doing it well, not over-hyping it and making it user-friendly. Warhammer is case in point to me. I think the Warhammer universe is an awesome IP and I think Mythic is an awesome studio, but it suffered (imho) from 2 of the 3 problems. It was insanely over-hyped,and in my opinion just wasn't done as well as I hoped.
Jon do have a point, MMOs focus on combat and there should be other options in most of them.
Why can't I play a thief who is a cat burglar and try to avoid combat? And there should be more to dungeons than just mobs and boss fights.
But I don't care much for Jons IPs myself, I rather have some non combat options into regular MMOs too.
You can stealth in many MMOs and avoid some combat in them but it only works on regular mobs and it isn't that exiting. AoC do have some points here, the use of light and such is an interesting concept. I would love to see a MMO where you could rob the boss blind without fighting him but it would be a hard challenge.
A "thief" MMO would be interesting in itself or added to a regular game.
As for the Star trek MMO, I wish someone else than Cryptic hold the IP, combat should be something that you should be able to avoid in most cases, that is the lore.
As for a Harry Potter MMO, so far have all companies not been able to make an good single player game so I doubt they could make a MMO that is ok. Besides did Rowling steal most of the stuff from Gailmans "Books of magic" (including the owl and the glasses) and books of magic would probably make a more fun MMO.
A Lego MMO would most likely sell even though I wont play it.
Seriously, and this is an honest question... Did you even read what the list was about? I mean how can you honestly come in here and criticize what was written and the choices that were made without even the most basic of understandings about what the list was actually about. Every single one of those that I "missed" would be a combat-centric MMO.
Seriously, you don't have to read the article, but if you didn't read, maybe you should consider... you know, not posting about it,
I so agree with this and am very disappointed Cryptic is talking the approach they are with STO. The article makes valid points that bringing the noncombat portions of Trek to a game - "True Trek", as I say - would be extremely difficult, yet to not do so misses the important quality that makes Star Trek different from any other SF franchise. It is too bad Cryptic is taking the easy road.
Two data points: my two daughters, one is 21, the other 19. The 19 year old has played MMOs since the ealier days of Everquest. She curently plays AoC and Champions. The 21 year old toys around with the FFP stuff coming out, but still dedicates much of her time to CoH.
Neither girl is interested in SIMS. Both are dieing to play the MMO KoTOR when it comes out.
About 10% of the pilots I run into in EVE are female (or great impressionists on Ventrillo). About half the A0C group I run with are female.
OMG YES Pokemon would an awesome MMO. I still play the handheld games too, on occasion. Don't try to pretend that you don't I know plently of people that stuck with it past the age of 13 =P. Who wouldn't want to run around challenging other people to pokemon battles? Yea, it would (and should) be combat based, but there are plenty of aspects to the handheld that could be added to an MMO version of the game that have nothing to do with combat.
The Sims would make a good MMO if it were reincarnated with the Sims 3. That game almost screams MMO, and my sisters play that damn game almost as much as I play WoW . Ok, not nearly as much, but still a lot =P.
Regarding the Hardy Boys/Nancy Drew IP, in some of the newer books that have been written, they actually do get into fights, so while it may not be combat based, you could get into the occasional scrap to either defend yourself or to stop a fleeing suspect.
And as for the LEGO idea, a LEGO MMO would just rule. I would buy it and play it for the first free month just cuz it's LEGO, and if it was good, I would gladly pay to play for a few months. But I am not in the casual demographic, and I do like my combat based games.
Problem with your list, you are talking mostly about MMOs with a social theme. Problem with such, they attract some of the, as you called them "stalkers", most of us have another name for them. Controlling such people would have to be a major design decision and difficult to implement. The problem with the internet today is you really have no idea and no way to determine who the other person is at the other end. Hence the tendency of these social MMO's to self implode.
So while it is nice to dream, reality says any of these would be very difficult to design.
Here is something for you readers to consider. I have a good friend who plays 2nd Life and participates in several social networks. She had a great job offer from a company, but lost it because she needed a security clearance and failed to pass the test. When she inquired she was told that the 2nd Life account and the social networks were red flags. So the establishment views them very negatively. Nothing was mentioned about her MMO play.
I would have to agree on your points on the ones I am familiar with.
I also agree fully on the Harry Potter. It would be interesting if this one was developed like it should be and I believe if done right would draw a huge band of players.
Combat is the bases for many of the top MMO's /MMORPG's. I agree this does not appeal to many and as yet I have not seen a game that has successfully made it possible to advance and not do battle on a fairly heavy note. It would be nice to have one where you could choose to battle or not. I think there was an attempt at this to a degree in one game but the name slips me at this time.
I like the combat at times but it would also be nice to be able to advance and not always do combat. /shrug
since it went seven pages without even a guess, corner gas.....
Harry Potter has so much potential to have an MMO made that goes beyond the traditional genres dynamics.
1. You create your student.
2. You progress through your seven years at Hogwarts and show growth/aging as a result. The seven years would be the leveling dynamic.
3. End game content starts after you seven years and you choose your profession, of course your OWLS must meet the scores required for that profession.
4. While at school there are classes which would be scheduled events that run 24/7. Classes are where you learn and hone your skills through mini games that teach you said magic. You don't have a set schedule, you just attend the classes you want to hone those skills as needed when time a lots. If there are currently no classes to attend that you are interested then quest, missions, and what have you are available... or you can go to the library to learn skills from research that may not be taught in classes.
5. PvP in school? Pranks, pranks, and more pranks.
6. Quiditch teams? Yes please? Of course another modification to the lore, there would have to be more than four teams. Perhaps one team per "guild" perhaps? Force the guilds to have try outs. Get bonuses if your quiditch teams win. Lots to work with here.
7. Mission could involve surviving death eaters searching for a way to resurrect Voldemort or a new power comes out of the woodworks which rallies a new group of death eaters. Another mission set could be to attempt to thwart the death eaters. While another mission set follows the Ministry of Magics attempt to control all. Students could progress to become a death eater or to fight against the death eaters on the fringe, or become an employee of the Ministry of Magic. Which ever path the student takes will determine the mission path they go down and what future quests/missions become available to them.
8. Controls would be something like as follows: Movement AWSD, camera controls would hold right mouse button down and move mouse, casting magic would be a combination of hitting a numbered key followed by holding the left mouse button while movie the mouse in certain formation to control your wand. Each spell has a specific want movement. So pressing the number will utter the magical words needed to cast a spell, while the left mouse button + movement performs the necessary want movement.
9. Early combat use would in duals and quests into the forest and whatnot. It would not be about killing stuff, but rather using spells to get through incapacitate. Granted, once your out of school and end game who knows what kinda dark arts magic will be cast around.
10. Detention, some kinda game aspect involved with that. Haven't really thought it through, but I am sure there is something fun and interesting that could be incorporated into that.
11. Trips to Hogsmeade could become available to those students that excel in subjects.
12. OWLS and NEWTS for determining profession.
These are just a few things that I thought of that could make for some interesting game dynamics. Not even a full list of ideas that I came up with while reading the books the past couple months and thinking how fun it would be to have an MMO in this world. Obviously some stuff I listed would need to be reworked and added to, but it lays a good ground work I think. Anyway, I'm sure plenty of people would disagree in what I would find fun in this, but oh well. What kind of ideas do you guys have that would make such a game fun and interesting?
Except for the "massively" part, that's what Neverwinter Nights was. Amazing game.
If an MMO version came out with user-created content, I would be all over that.
It is a funny idea, especially when you put it that way.
I don't blame the author, he needed to come up with some material for an article, but Nancy Drew, lol.
I wonder if he understands the true nature of the internet, there would be 15 young girls playing, 70,000 pedos and 2,000 FBI agents.
Think things through people of 2009!!
Any job that makes decisions like that is a horrible corporate job and she is better off without them. People need to stand up for their rights when dealing with corporate creepiness like this, if no one accepts this crap it will go away, because then NEED people to run their crappy company
It is a funny idea, especially when you put it that way.
I don't blame the author, he needed to come up with some material for an article, but Nancy Drew, lol.
I wonder if he understands the true nature of the internet, there would be 15 young girls playing, 70,000 pedos and 2,000 FBI agents.
Think things through people of 2009!!
Honestly I think he just threw out a couple well known and established mystery solving characters to solidify the idea of a mystery MMO. He could have just as easily said Scooby Doo or Sherlock Holmes, or maybe even Alfred Hitchcock with such movies as North by Northwest and Charades in mind. A suspense mystery MMO, wonder how that would work.
Tell that to Cryptic. 99% of the information they've released on this game has been combat, combat, combat. We don't know how anything other than combat works. They've built a combat/PvP game and so far it seems that there is very little else to do in it.
I think Avatar: The Last Airbender would be an interesting IP for an MMO, and I think it fits within the scope of the OP.
Also, perhaps something based on the works of R.L. Stine.
Just thoughts. Otherwise, I like the ideas the OP had.
Not bad, but there is one IP I think which would bring in a ton of people and would probably kick the ass of even Harry Potter:
Kingdom Hearts.
You know the female demographic would go nuts over it.
A few things I would like to point out here:
- I'm a guy and love Kingdom Hearts. Most people I know that have played them are also guys, and also enjoyed them. There are no gender focused attributes of the series that would say this game is designed for a specific gender demographic. Both those of the male and female variety can enjoy Kingdom Hearts, and thusly just as much of the male demographic to go nuts over an MMO as their female counterparts.
- As awesome as Kingdom Hearts is, there is no way it would kick Harry Potter's ass. The following for Harry Potter is much larger and stronger than the following for Kingdom Hearts. Sure Kingdom Hearts reaches out to both fans of Disney and SquareEnix (Final Fantasy) fans; however, the combination of the two does not reach out to both groups.
- Though I would be interested in seeing how a Kingdom Hearts MMO would play out, I'd be more interested in a strictly Disney MMO (minus the present day Disney drivel like Hanna Montana and High School Musical). I guess it would be similar to a Kingdom Hearts MMO just without the Final Fantasy character cameos. Final Fantasy XI and XIV give me all the Final Fantasy in MMO format that I need, can't wait for FFXIV.
Anyway, that's my thoughts on the subject, take it as you like! :D
I do not want any more IPs made into MMO, commpanys have done lot of damage already tranfering famous IPs into MMOs.
I think Tharkis hit the nail on the head with:
“The thing is, damn near anything can be made into an MMO. The problem seems to be doing it well, not over-hyping it and making it user-friendly.”
But as to the Harry Potter MMO, I spent enough time in short trousers and do not wish to go back there. :)
Well, thankfully the game industry does not revolve around you. To be honest there has never been any kind of damage done to the real world as a result of an MMO. If you don't like the game, then don't play it. The games are made for people that want to play it, not those that aren't interested. Just because you do not like it, does not mean somebody else does not.
The only damage that can be done by a game is to itself. Take AoC for instance. Great game, but with such a shitty start and "broken promises" in the start, they damage themselves and lost a lot of players. That did not damage the real world in any way, nor did it damage the Conan IP. The old movies are just as good, the books are still good, and future expanse in more games, movies, and books are still fully viable.
I know, I waste my breath, as this is the Internet and everybody has to be overly dramatic with statements like these. I should just learn to ignore them, but damn it's hard.
Shadowrun is number one on my list of IPs that need to be brought to the MMO Genre. It is a perfect blend of SciFi and Fantasy. And with the amount of material in print already, there is plenty of content to draw from.
OMG, are you insane? More carebears? No thanks.
i dont see myself playing sims mmo or harry potter mmo
The OP, Stradden seems desperate to have something else then combat be the main core of a MMORPG. Well MMO anyway.
Nice idea... but he gives no examples.
Could there be a reason for that? Could the reason be that it is very very VERY hard to come up with an idea that can stand up to a hard look?
The Sims, has NO competition. What would multiplayer (because that is what an MMO is) add?
Planetside works because multiplayer quake works. But would multiplayer The Sims work? What would it do?
Decorate together? You can do that sitting behind the same screen. Decorating battles? How would you tell who has won?
No, The Sims is the gaming ground of EXTREMELY hardcore gamers. The decompile the original app and data files to be able to add their own content they host on their own websites. The Sims IS the users, it is as hardcore as the people who not PLAY counterstrike, but who BUILD counterstrike.
Other suggestions given in the post run amok as well. You can't grind a mystery. How would you solve the same mystery a dozen times hoping for a rare drop?
Of course you COULD write enough content to keep players coming back year after year BUT there is a reason why TV series only run a few weeks in the year and then only for a few years. Content, story, plot is EXPENSIVE.
Try, play Columbo. It barely adds up to a single player games worth of content, let alone WoW, which so far has kept people hooked for five years, day in day out.
If you got an MMO idea, first ask yourself this. Would it make a FUN single player game? And then, would adding multiplayer make it better or at the very least, the same? And then, would adding MASSIVE multiplayer (read no ban button jerks) make it worth paying for?
I will give you an example.
Aliens VS Predator ( the original game).
Single player: VERY scary. You can't look behind you, what was that noise, how much ammo do I got.
Multiplayer: Time to kick ass and chew gum!
Massive Multiplayer: Aliens bunny hopping.
Yeah, it's hard to beleive this didn't make the list. Pokemon is such an obvious choice.
This is just plain false. Your friend is lieing to you. There is absolutely nothing stopping someone from getting a clearence because of any MMO. The reason to be disqualified for a clearence are stated in the law quite clearly:
Personally i think your are being somewhat disingenuous about STO. I think this because on several occassions the dev's have answered the Diplomatic solution question and have explained it is a big part of the game. That their are specific missions that are solely diplomatic with no combat at all. Just because they aren't talking heavily about it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
And on to the exploration. They have spent a ton of time and development cost on the Genesis system, which will create new worlds and races that havent been explored before. the system is designed to create new explorable content without repeating anything. so by their description it will allow almost unlimited exploration.
With the inclusion of the Bridge Officers system you can and do interact with your crew. they have stated that different bridge officers will bring different suggestions of ideas to you while on missions. they can also get upset with your decisions. So their is a level of interactive experience with the crew of your ship.
As far as technology goes, their is supposed to be a rich involved crafting system that has you exploring to gather resources to build/maintain/repair your ships systems.
When you say that they have built the game primarily around the combat system you should be saying that they are marketing mostly around the combat system. The other themes you mention are stated by the dev's to be in the game and also to be a important component to the gameplay. They just don't advertise it much.
I agree entirely. We already have a gigantic demographic, expanded exponentially by WoW. The fact is that gamers are going to game and some people just wont, its part of a lifestyle. So, companies should focus on the massive audience they have at their disposal by making games that are indepth and enjoyable for the crowd that wants to play games, rather than trying to drag new demographics in and creating niche games that are pooped into existance for the sole purpose of making money.
Thats why the MMORPG genre has changed so drasticly lately, thats why veteran players are constantly searching the charts for the latest game in DEV. or beta, and thats why we have experienced a FRICKEN explosion of craaaaaapy games. MONEY
What is lacking? Pride and a passion for gaming, what this genre was originally based on.
This isnt anything new, developers and academics have been saying for awhile now that the Sims, whose main player base is females, targeted both male and female gamers, though mostly female. It is a reflection on society. IN fact one could argue all of Will Wrights games have done so. What it comes down to is mechanics and aesthetics. Specific challenges with the right mechanics and a gender neutral aesthetic accomplish this. Good luck seeing females being a large part of star trek, but the sims, which reflects on society, social and creative aspects as well as the maintaining of daily life, is much different.
In fact some behavioral scientist have claimed that certain aspects of this behavior are hard wired into us. Meaning, the normal female would be attracted to the challenges and identifyable household chores (challenges), the aspect of maintaining and socializing life itself, become more enjoyable. It is also said that females are actually the best FPS players when it come to targeting and accuracy but lose it in the face of chaos, meaning when a lot is going on in the game world or screen. Yet males on the other hand operate well under chaotic situations. It has something to do with the eye and brain identification and reaction.
Very few of these game titles will really hit a gender neutral audience. The only one that is really acceptable on this list is the sims. Everything else is debatable and given statistics, not really open to get a new demographic which is really only old people and females. The average gamer is 35 years old, children have always been targeted and successfully drawn into games. This leaves just females and older folk. Did you know the most played game in the world by females is solitaire? Not just by females though it is the most played highest selling game ever. Crazy when you think about it.
Nintendo already prooved this theory wrong. The Wii has expanded the demographic of people playing video games much more than WoW did. And if you want to restrict this just to MMOs, Sony's Free Realms is catching up to WoW's numbers and it is doing it mostly with people who have never played an MMO before.
The WoW demographic is already playing WoW and won't leave anytime soon, the Eve demographic is already playing Eve and won't leave anytime soon. If a company wants to build a new MMO they have to create it for a new demographic or hope they can steal people away from an already succesful game which is much harder to do.
Nintendo already prooved this theory wrong. The Wii has expanded the demographic of people playing video games much more than WoW did. And if you want to restrict this just to MMOs, Sony's Free Realms is catching up to WoW's numbers and it is doing it mostly with people who have never played an MMO before.
The WoW demographic is already playing WoW and won't leave anytime soon, the Eve demographic is already playing Eve and won't leave anytime soon. If a company wants to build a new MMO they have to create it for a new demographic or hope they can steal people away from an already succesful game which is much harder to do.
I see your point and agree. But i was reffering to the group of veteran players who have been around since UO and especially SWG, who are looking for a game that can recapture what made those games fantastic, the freedom that comes with a sanbox game. This demographic has not seen a game since EvE and lets face it, although EvE is very much sandbox, it is radically different in its setting and gameplay then that of a traditional human avatar based game. Space -ships are not for everyone. Mortal Online is a game that many said would be a savior to this Demographic. But Mortal Online has crossed the line for the sake of realism. Many in-game features and the lack of in-game features, coupled with the limiting FP view has steered many clear of this game. On top of that, Mortal Online is not looking very promising of late what with the constant launch postpones and the beta that is being argued to be 'horrible.' I mention this because i am part of this demographic and am looking for a game that can recapture the freedom of a sandbox thats not polluted with some 'Revolutionary' feature or is radically hardcore. We have been here the whole time; Now make us a game damnit.
Space-ships are just not for me.
yes becuase the whole spell caster idea has never been done(sarcasm) harry friggin potter? surely you can do better than that, and just fyi the sims have a mmo and it failed so pick something else a vampire/warewolf for example would have been a better choice and with the vampire idea being hot right now it shouldn't take someone long to to make one. something along the lines of armored core building your own robots and swapping out part to change your functions could work if done right please we can do better than spell casting sword swinging elves and orcs and we deserve better.
I'm suprised that the SOE Ramayan MMO didn't make the list. Not super suprised as it's a bit obscure, but to me India has to be a massively untapped market. Blizzard has certainly sees alot of love from China, but India is just an untapped realm of gamer potential.
Yes, it's a very poor country, with limited computer accessability... but so is the bulk of China. You get .1% of India playing your game... you'r a millionaire.