Speaking to Player Concerns
When DUST 514 was first announced, a number of player concerns rose to the forefront. Chief among them the question of how EVE Online would be affected by the new game. At this year's Fan Fest, MMORPG.com's Jon Wood found the answer to that concern and more.
General Article By Jon Wood on October 07, 2009
When CCP announced that they were making Dust 514, a console-based MMOFPS that would tie into the universe of their current PC MMORPG EVE Online, reaction was mixed. When the team revealed more details at this year’s Fan Fest, reaction from the gathered crowd of hardcore EVE players appeared to be almost unanimously positive.
This could owe, at least in part, to the fact that while up until now players have known nothing but a few details about the game. So, while the game is most certainly still in a pre-alpha phase of development and there are some questions that still can not or will not be answered, Fan Fest did provide numerous new details and addressed a number of the overall concerns that were voiced when the game was first announced.
The Look
The demo that was shown at the event looked very much as one might expect a sci-fi shooter to look. Long, stretching swaths of terrain (each battle field is five kilometres long), with a mix of cold, concrete constructed buildings and cool, metallic futuristic technology. The map that was shown was mountainous and quite rocky, but we were told that different worlds would have different terrains.
The goal of each battle will be to destroy the opposing faction’s Mobile Command Center, an in-atmosphere ship that houses the team’s commander and flies slowly above the battle. This element, combined with the futuristic aspect of the game, looks very similar to Battlefield 2142 and its Titan maps. CCP’s Magnus Bergsson responded to questions about the physical similarities, saying that if you are going to take the ideas and the universe surrounding EVE and turn it into an FPS, this design simply makes sense. “There wasn’t much of another way to do it,” he said. In terms of the science fiction concept, they’re going to be fairly similar. He was also quick to point out that although there may be a similar look, the design of the two games differs significantly.
Microtransactions
When DUST launches, it will use a microtransaction based revenue model. Players will, of course, have to buy the game at retail, but as DUST’s Atli Már Sveinsson said in the game’s press presentation, “We still have to pay for servers and such.”
;)
Knowing that microtransactions of any kind can cause heated debate amongst players, the developers were quick to point out that they do not intend to put any item up for sale that would allow players to “buy win.” While the full details are being fleshed out, and any specific information in this area is subject to change, the plan at this point is to make items like blueprints available for purchase. Players who may be concerned that others will be able to purchase items without having earned them will be pleased to know that the company plans to implement a system wherein players have to unlock the right to purchase certain things so that it all comes out on the level.
Interaction with EVE
When DUST was announced, it was made clear that the game would not only be set in the same conceptual universe as its MMORPG counterpart, but that it would also exist within it at the same time, as two parts of the same online whole. In short, EVE players and DUST players would be able to interact.
Fans already knew that EVE players would be able to hire out DUST mercenaries, but details were sketchy beyond that. As in most things, the full details have yet to emerge, but the team tells players that, at least at first, the flow of money between EVE and DUST will be one way (from EVE to DUST). As time goes on, and the developers are able to see how players use the system, they will decide how to proceed further.
All of this being said, players in their early DUST careers will have absolutely no contact with EVE whatsoever, and even after spending a decent amount of time in the game, the choice to interact with EVE will be theirs. Numerous times throughout the presentations, CCP employees made it clear that DUST and EVE, while existing in the same universe, can operate perfectly well without the other. So, if EVE were to disappear one day, DUST would continue operate and vice-versa.
The Console Only Approach
Not at all surprisingly, there are a number of EVE fans (who play the game on their PCs or MACs) who are upset by the decision to develop this extension of “their” universe exclusively for the console. After all, they have been playing in the New Eden universe.
;)
It is difficult, however, to blame the folks at CCP for wanting to expand their universe to a console market that is hungry for both quality shooters and innovation, especially when that market remains such a vast untapped resource by the rest of the MMO industry. The truth is, from a business standpoint, this move makes sense. That, and CCP has a plan:
CCP’s Magnus Bergsson and DUST’s Atli Már Sveinsson have both separately commented on the issue, citing an attempt to make something completely new and interesting. “We are totally committed to make this an ideal console experience,” Sveinsson said in response to a question about the PC. Later, Bergsson added his own thoughts:
“We want to make the best possible console game,” he said, echoing his co-worker’s sentiments. He went on to say that making a PC game is an entirely different process. Their plan, apparently, is to take the console shooter genre and improve upon it, doing the best job possible. With that being said though, he also added that “The future is still open,” indicating that while a console version of the game is the company’s focus now, they have not ruled out a PC version in the future.
At this stage of the game, DUST is still a long way off. While there was indeed a played demo available at Fan Fest, the playing was done in a specifically small area, by developers only. Things will undoubtedly change, new announcements will be made and new questions will arise. This year’s Fan Fest, however, answered many of the concerns that EVE players may have had about the upcoming sister game.
Awesome guys.
While I look forward to the Sim planetary game within Eve I find Dust interesting and will be supporting CCP with atleast a Box purchase of Dust.
The Eve universe suddenly has everything. Elements of RTS, Sim, Fps and much much more.
Great time to be an Eve fan.
It looks nice with the graphics and design, but I do not have a console system, and this will not be the sole reason i purchase one (with a TV and everything) So just EVE will have to do until they release it to PC.
Not having a PC version seems like a huge mistake. It's not that hard to port an FPS game from console to PC compared to some other types of games. Also, most of Dust's initial market is guaranteed to have a PC.
I'm glad its console only. There are already alot of good PC games coming out soon, so this just makes my list of games to check out smaller. Thanks, CCP.
Being that I have a blue ray player that also happens to be a playstation 3 that is collecting dust (pun intended), this is going to be awesome.
Not porting to pc is a mistake, no doubt about it.
I actually believe there's a PC version but they are trying to make sure they deliver a good console version to see how that plays out before releasing to the elite squadron of PC gamers. It makes sense in that they keep saying they are currently focusing on delivering a flawless console experience and not totally denying no PC version. Tell me if they could listen to us say we won't pay another subscription fee why won't they listen to a mass of PC gamers saying they want a PC version?
it is not a mistake, and why? because console and pc controls are very different, the console has a much slower pace and turning ability than the pc, so if they have to bring to PC they will only bring to pc, if they decide to bring to both they have to make them on 2 seperate servers and that wont work.
Hard to mix PC and console players on the same map. With the mouse and a decent gaming system any player would have a distinct advantage over someone on a console using a controller. That is a known fact.
I'm impressed and pleased to see CCP making an innovative move like this - integrating multiple gameplay styles within the same overall game world.
A developer dependent upon an external publisher would be unlikely to make, or to be able to make, this kind of product decision. My hat's off to CCP.
PC and console don't mix. Why go console at all? How many times do devs have to hear "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"?
All the cash I got into a PC I am NOT going to buy a stupid console.
With FPS I strongly disagree that controllers are any disadvantage to a mouse. Some people are better with a controller then a mouse. It is pure preference and what you are most used to.
I feel CCP is sort of leaving their EVE players out. I feel that is a very poor move.
An untapped market is why go console.
Adding to things said, apart from hardcore gamers that run both "systems" the regular PC gamer community differs a lot to the regular console gamer community. Not only by age ;-)
They filled New Eden with the PC (and Mac, OKOK...) gamers already, time to let the consoleros shoot - with more action & effects and less depth & thinking *grin*
Because we want something new??? The whole article was about innovation.
Going by the video, the biggest challenge for them now would be to fill in the numbers.
how many people will be able to play in a match, for the scale they are going for 36 v. 36 is not going to cut it, esspecially with the massive nature that eve carries.
i anticipate ccp's answer as for how many players on one match can participate. that and the ground rules of winning a match on the defenders side.
I think your wrong. I know several people between say 20 yrs old and my age that play console games. Xbox live is very popular with older people, i know several cops that play shooters on Xbox and people in the military as well. PC gamers are just going to have to accept the fact that consoles are a contender and arnt going to go away. Less depth and thought? Yeah only brain surgeons play PC games.
The older crowd in EVE sending the younger console gamer kids to war, geez. lol! :P
yeah us gamer kids are growing up :)
What a neat concept. I know it is quite a bit different, but it reminds me of when SWG released Jump to Light Speed, except instead of going from terrestrial to celestial, it is the reverse.
As for it being a console game, I do not get why that should be a major issue of concern. I would imagine that the majority of PC gamers own a modern game console.
However, I do not understand why people have simply accepted that FPS players on a PC would have an advantage over those on a console. I realize that the current standards of interface for the two platforms give the PC player an advantage. However, I know that at least the XBox 360 supports mouse and keyboard interface, so it is really just a matter of CCP programming the game to use that option and then informing the console gamers that they are able to use the more efficient interface. And regarding performance variation between PCs and consoles, most consoles are so streamlined for performance that they outperform the average to low-end gaming PCs. While it is true that gamers using high-end gaming PCs will have an advantage over console gamers in an FPS environment, that same inequality already exists between high-end and low-end PC gamers in the multiplayer FPS games that are exclusive to PCs.
I predict that MMOs will begin to span PC and console platforms relatively soon.
I personally dont see them making a console and PC version unless they are going to be playing on seperate servers.
Main reasons being console FPS games provide the player with features that PC FPS games do not. Auto-adjusting aim. aswell most Console FPS do not take advantage of the keyboard/mouse option. I can think of only 1 game that supports kybd/mouse on console, Unreal tournament 3 on PS3 and if i recall correctly from what I read before about it, they had to make servers for controller only users and ones for kybd/m and controller just to appease the masses that would ultimately complain that people with a keyboard/mouse had a unfair advantage, or the people using a controller had a unfair advantage due to the auto-adjusting aim.
Just google "mouse and keyboard support for console games" and you can probably find alot of forums full of people flaming each other on their opinion for or against it.
I really don't see it happening unless they follow a similar model as UT3 or completely segregate PC and console players to their own servers.
I believe it's been stated by CCP personnel that Dust514 will NOT go to PC unless and until they can find a foolproof way to secure it against hacking, give the cough metagaming cough that occurs in eve online, this is a good thing, as Dust514 will have at least some effects on Sov in systems with solid planets.
Now if they could only slam this together with EVE we would have one hell of a game on our hands.
Good luck with that... There is no such thing as a client side "hack proof" system. Things like hackshield, xisign, and gameguard are pathetic jokes. The best security is server side, and even thats not fool proof. I suspect they are not going to go to PC, but are being vague so as not to alienate their PC player base. They would also have to have two separate servers for console and PC versions, and that is totally against their single shard ideology.
I find this to be an ingenious idea. Imagine corporations being able to hire out entire groups of mercenaries.
And, just wondering, as I haven't played EVE myself, can the planets themselves currently be contested for? If not, then I can see how DUST 514 would come into play...
Before Dust releases Players of Eve will beable to control regions of certain planets ala a Simcity empire building type game and when WAR or conflict occurs they would contract Dust mercs to fight for them in controlled hot spots in that particular world.
Amazing...they have a really super idea, then decide to make it console only? I just don't understand the logic of combining a PC (and Mac) only game with a console only game. Seems like from the get go, you are totally alienating your bread and butter Eve players from even trying it.
I would have tried it myself, but I'm not buying a console just for this game. Shame really...
Kind of shocked to be honest. I've heard of the concept for a while now, had an idea what Dust was about, but this is the first I've heard of it being on console.
Can't say I give a crap about it anymore. Sure, some people are going to enjoy it, but what's the point, honestly?
EVE is known as being an unforgiving and complex game. It's the game people turn to when they're sick of cloned-MMOs and want a rich experience with others. How the hell does that mix with console? In order to make a game on console you have to sacrifice a lot of features, a lot of concepts, just.. a lot.
I'm very surprised that CCP is going console. I honestly think it's going to be a joke. Hopefully they can stay afloat properly after it fails to meet expectations.
--
I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be some kind of "EVE NGE" fiasco. They better not throw any of their EVE eggs into the Dust basket.
You certainly make a lot of assumptions.... Its an untapped market. A console FPS linked to an MMORPG should be interesting. There aren't really any console MMORPGs at all. The only one I can think of is FFXI.
Honestly, I think it will do decently well for itself.
What does being an "untapped market" have to do with anything? We're talking about the quality of an MMO here, not the "market success".
There have been all kinds of console MMO-esque games. I can't think of them all, but for starters:
Phantasy Star Online
EverQuest Online Adventures
Final Fantasy XI
They were "somewhat" successful, just in marketing terms, but hardly anything as intense as PC games. When you compare these games to the quality that you get with PC, you can notice right away and clearly, that they are sub-par with their PC brethren. This is the case for nearly all console games.
You're limited in graphics, memory, content and overall features. Interface is a special problem with consoles. You're stuck with a controller with strict joystick controls and limited input mapping.
You really notice when they sacrifice control features and animations when the game is marketed towards a console platform. Some obvious examples:
Q and E lean, crouch, prone, varying speeds - In most modern PC marketed games, your character is able to lean left and right, go prone, crouch and walk or run. You can't have all of this in a console game with the limited controls. When a console FPS is ported to PC you will be able to tell right off when Q is a radial menu (for joysticks) and E is a "Use" button.
I could go on, but that's the obvious limitation, and I don't want to write a book here.
People could argue, "Well just get a mouse and keyboard for your console." <- What's the point? Get a damn PC for pete's sake. The console is "evolving" into PC gaming, but it's starting way back in time and dragging the PC market along with it. It's going to be a while before the PC market stops suffering and consoles "catch up". Catching up by simply turning into PCs.... It's so frustratingly stupid.
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One of the more recent "Interested in consoles" events was Age of Conan. You can tell they started hacking away at features and implementing new ones in the likelihood they went to console as well. Features like the combat rose and the mind-numbing key-press "Combos". You could tell they thought about it, but only went quarter-sails, and just kinda dabbled with some ideas. The end-product on PC suffered to some degree because of it.
There's a great reason for that, THEY ALL FAILED HORRIBLY. just like DUST 514 will if it is not released on the PC. CCP is being really dumb with this move.
How many games were there for console that featured "Intense Large-Scale Multiplayer Combat"?
Talking about Battlefield 2 kinda stuff here.. Wasn't there a game for PS3 that was supposed to be "massive combat" on "large battlefields", but ultimately failed? Consoles can't get past small maps and limited amounts of players, they are just inferior.
Consoles are great for what they are, but they are NOT PC gaming emulators for crying out loud. Stop trying to make games "similar" to PC, sigh.
those are MMOs ... Dust is a FPS..... the rest of your post is just PC gamer elitest talk that is so biased i would be wasting my time pointing out how wrong you are. FPSes can and are very successfull on consoles, Halo, Killzone, Rainbow six to name a few have sold millions upon millions of copies. Quit crying because your PC isnt allowed to install every game thats ever going to be released.
lol again ... you dont know what your talking about.. MAG (the game you're talking about) hasnt failed because it hasnt even been released yet. And yeah battlefield 2 is a game that also had larger numbers on the console. But tell me, how many console games have as many cheaters/hackers as their pc counterparts? None that i can think of.
Um BF2 on consoles was epic fail. And how about all online FPS have equal number of hackers? It's not hard on the console at all.
Now who's being the console fanboi? Oh yea you.
Your right. Consoles are not PC gaming emulators, this generation of consoles are pretty much a PC built for gaming. There are advantages and disadvantages to both platforms, many of which has been discussed here.
Let's see Halo is the most overrated game ever, at least the 2nd and 3rd one, Killzone also sucks and Rainbow Six now sucks as well. Thanks to being dumb downed for consoles
How ever do any of them interact with a MMO like EvE? No, that's what I thought. Again, DUST will fail unless released on PC.
But Halo sold a shit lot off copies. Which is what CCP cares primarily about. None of you really have any basis for all this "OMG consoles SUCK" besides the fact that you may not own one, do you?
Rainbow Six started on the PC, and ended up dying a painful death when Ubisoft started going console for profit.
I think Rogue Spear was the final decent R6 game, and whatever offspring it had. When they started going console, the genre literally died and it was equivalent to the SWG-NGE. Ghost Recon was another incredible shooter on PC that shared the same fate as R6 due to console influence. Both series are nearly rail-shooters at this point, with no tactical action whatsoever. You just go from room-to-room waiting for the next scripted event.
Halo, was pretty decent. It brought a lot of people into gaming, it had fun co-op and I had great fun with the physics back when Halo 1 was popular. Now it's gone too far, and the series doesn't make any sense. It's just a cash-in.
Call of Duty is probably the most popular. It's had quite a foray on consoles and PCs. However, they are nothing more than rail-shooters. Go down a selected path, wait for event, be the hero, save the day. Multiplayer isn't anything special either. It's fast, yes, and can be fun.. but it suffers from insanely small maps and tends to be just plain ridiculous.
Games are suffering because of console influence. Console games can be way better than they are now, but they can only go so far. I'm hardly a "PC Elitist" either, considering I've played more console games and had more consoles than I've had PC's or upgrades. I, like many others, are partial to consoles now because most of the time, the shit is just ported straight to PC and they don't even adjust proper controls. The mouse movement struggles with the "sticky" joystick movement. It's just lazy.
I remember when games were created for PC and then ported to console, making all sacrifices and changes that were necessary. Now, they develop it straight to console and "port" it to PC, leaving all PC gamers with big, giant blue-balls.
I don't think CCP cares about your "blue-balls" . I think they are trying to tap the casual gamers market who game primarily on consoles.
I own a PS3, Wii.. formerly a 360 but it's trashed now, and a PC of course. I play more PC games than I do console.
Most of the memorable games I've played have been on console. Such as Resident Evil and Silent Hill.. some others. However, without a PC I wouldn't have been able to experience EverQuest, Rainbow Six/Ghost Recon.. and countless others that simply cannot and will not ever be the same on console. Sacrifices have to be made in order to make it work for both platforms.
If they wanted to make PC the primary platform, then cut it down to size for consoles, fine. That's how it was years ago and nobody had a problem with that. Now it's the other way around and PC games are suffering because of it, this is what people have issues with.
I don't think PC gaming is "better" than console gaming. They are not the same and yes, both have their advantages and disadvantages... but PC remains the king in nearly all aspects. Including customization, broader interface and communication/interaction with others. It's just not the same when you sit down in front of a TV with a small controller.
I know they don't care, and I don't expect them to care about my concern or any other similar concerns. I'm making outside observations because I consider it a strange move by CCP. Up until now, CCP was considered the last bastion of hope in complex-online PC gaming. Not many games can challenge EVE in this regard.
So their decision to move into the console market is beyond just a little strange. Especially considering they're not even making it multi-platform. I believe it's ignorant, honestly, and it's going to alienate some of their player-base.
It's going to end up with the argument about Funcom's staff on Age of Conan when they announced The Secret World. People were concerned because Age of Conan barely even started before they announced "a big new game". Yet naysayers continued to say, "They have plenty of staff and are not effected by the other game, quit whining." Well, now here we are after Funcom laid off 20% of it's workforce, a lot from Age of Conan. Not to mention Anarchy Online, which is basically running off the fart-fumes of what was left of their former skeleton crew.
So don't act like their development of Dust will not hamper EVE in any way, because it will. These projects considerable amount of money, time, manpower and general resources. Hopefully they stay absolutely true to their original EVE fanbase, or they're going to have severe problems.
i've played both GRAW and RB6 (i still play it every week). Both are great games, quit being bitter.
EVE has a huge marketing campaign. When they market DUST as a tie in with EVE players will recognize this.
Also, the FPS market for consoles are huge. Look at CoD MWII. I wonder what platform it will sell more on...hmmm.
Point is, stop being PC gamers and look at it from a developers perspective. They may very well port it to PC, but they first want to work on the console versions to make them perfect. One thing at a time is what we call it. You guys need to stop complaining.
Oh, okay. They're "great games" to you, so I must be bitter.. lol.
I never said they were awful, I said they were sub-par. They're not what they could have been if developed for PC like they used to. If you have a problem with that opinion, then I don't know what else to say. Nobody is going to be taking away your GRAW and R6Vegas lol..
"the genre literally died and it was equivalent to the SWG-NGE. Ghost Recon was another incredible shooter on PC that shared the same fate as R6 due to console influence."
yeah .... you never said they were awful but you said it was the equivalent of SWG-NGE which ...... wasn't awful? You also said they died, and were wrong there also. I'm not discussing whether or not games are good or bad, i'm discussing sales numbers. Whether a game is good or bad is based on opinion. Whether a game sells 1-2 million copies is based on a much broader opinion of the game.
Stop being a gamer and look at it from the perspective of people making money? No thanks. Nobody here should really care about their next financial venture, they should care about the game's quality. Financial Success does not always equal quality. If your number one argument over a game's quality is "lot's of people bought it", then that just ultimately fails.
I hate to bring it up, but the fast food industry is a fine example. People just seem to be losing the idea of what a game is. They only want to worry about how 'popular' it is and how many people are going to buy it. Aion and World of Warcraft are extremely popular, but they are hardly "good games" for everybody.
It's just so strange that CCP is the one doing it.
So you're going to argue that Rainbow Six and Ghost Recon never changed drastically? That's what I was saying. The original genre completely died and created an exodus of loyal-fans. However, it also created a influx of "new fans" that wanted a different experience.
I said the genre died, not the game. Huge difference.
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The NGE was awful for most of those who experienced it, and to them SWG will always be awful because of it. However, the people that joined after the NGE, who don't mind it.. it isn't awful to them.
if it was in fact a SWG-NGE type deal, the games would be terrible and barely have over 100k sales. I agree RB6 has changed a bit from the larger maps, but tbh its pretty much the same thing except better graphics, more features and things to do (rappel, quick rope, cover). Never played Ghost recon on the PC, all i know is that GRAW is a great game on consoles. You just dont like change, something i dont mind if i still enjoy the game after the change.
It's a giant mistake to not release this game on PC. The PC market is pretty big, especially for MMO players, so MMO players won't really get a crack at this game. I hope the foolish devs reconsider this decision and also release it for the PC.
What we're basically talking about here:
CCP is marketing a large project towards the console crowd, most of whom probably don't even know about EVE. Nearly the complete opposite of the EVE player-base.
Then, somehow, they're going to blend the two together somehow.. and the EVE players are going to like this, why?
Let's face it, EVE players are historically known for being the epitome of the anti-WoW, anti-console crowd. So I don't understand why it's CCP making the jump, let alone trying to blend the game into EVE as well.
Just doesn't make sense.
If the announcement was, "Blizzard is making a console-only game with spaceship combat over Azeroth. The game will be blended in with World of Warcraft and the players of the space game can interact with the players of WoW to some degree." <-- I would have shrugged it off and figured it was expected at some point. After all, they're basically marketing to the same crowd, majority-wise.
.. but for CCP and EVE.. I wouldn't have Ever expected it.
Why console? Maybe if all those console players find the world of EVE interesting and a portion of those players decide to explore the core game. That translates to more subs.
A console game will expose a whole other demographic the world of EVE.
Good thing bad thing? I have no opinion on that.
this game isnt a expansion for eve, it isnt meant for every single eve player to experience. It's meant for a whole different crowd of players they can introduce to the eve universe. It's been said before in half the other dust threads that had people complaining.
I'm well aware it's not an expansion, let alone something "for" EVE. I never said this in any of my posts.
They said it's going to "tie in" with EVE somehow and players might be able to interact with one another. Who knows what they really have planned content-wise.
You knew well enough what I was talking about, stop being a troll. The insults and broad-generalization of the whole topic isn't needed.
"Let's face it, EVE players are historically known for being the epitome of the anti-WoW, anti-console crowd. So I don't understand why it's CCP making the jump, let alone trying to blend the game into EVE as well."
then why do you keep making posts that imply EVE players are going to be the only players? You're either upset that DUST will affect eve, or you're upset that it isnt on the pc so existing EVE players cant play it. I cant figure out which.
Also you make it sound like DUST and EVE players are going to be talking with eachother every time you log on.... It's 2 different games, do you even play eve? This is not only just a second game but a change to EVE Sovereignty mechanics. Something that is really needed.
Think it will be on the Xbox console only~?
I really wish consoles would disappear. The reason they alway's do a port from console to PC is because of the mutability of the PC. Trying to port a PC game to a console would be a nightmare.
If you are going to do an MMO, focus on the PC and leave the consoles out of it. I will be very surprised if they manage to make the console part of it work. In the end it will probably be just a wannabe shooter game that doesn't do much of anything for Eve.
those are MMOs ... Dust is a FPS..... the rest of your post is just PC gamer elitest talk that is so biased i would be wasting my time pointing out how wrong you are. FPSes can and are very successfull on consoles, Halo, Killzone, Rainbow six to name a few have sold millions upon millions of copies. Quit crying because your PC isnt allowed to install every game thats ever going to be released.
Exactly. Its all about the numbers. Those that shrug off the phrase "untapped market" are demonstrating that they understand little of the market dynamics at work. I suspect CCP is at least a little tired of being limited to a niche market. Lets face it, as good as Eve is, there is a rather limited audience for it. Given a good game, access to the console market could be VERY profitable. All too many people forget that this entire activity when all is said and done is about making a *profit*. I'm willing to wait and see how this turns out. As always, I wish CCP only the best. They are some very talented and intelligent people.
I'm shrugging it off because I'm not a market investor. I'm a player of games, not a financial executive. I suspect everyone else on these forums is also just a player of games, yes?
What I'm tired of, is people assuming they know about "market dynamics" simply because they go with the flow of subscribers in a MMO.
I wish the best to CCP as well. The point I was trying to make is that CCP is doing it. Of all the companies that could be making an FPS shooter, that will supposedly tie into a MMO, I wouldn't have expected CCP to try, it's just odd.
Oh, but I suppose if I so much as question the reality of the situation, then I "know little of market dynamics." lol
Super Smash Bros. Brawl was amazingly successful. Success=Great game.. ?
To quote CCP panel at Fanfest... "we're taking the mmo to console and we're going to show those guys how to do this kind of fucking shit"
Gotta love drunken devs
Success is measured differently by different people. But I doubt you would find many game companies that wouldn't want to trade places with Blizzard in terms of WoW subscribers...
The phrase "market dynamics" is properly applied to analysis of the variables involved in a given market sector. Its a quite common phrase from the field of economics. Personally, I find console FPS games to be too restricted in comparison to PC FPS titles. But then all of my personal skills and experience are in PC FPS games. I suspect that CCP is looking at the profit potential available in the console market, and the fact that "hacking" consoles is inherently more difficult. Note I did NOT say impossible. It just requires a different set of skills and hardware. But those aren't nearly as wide spread as those for PC's are. Bottom line, lets see how this works out. Its at least a year or two away in any event.
I can't understand ppl complaining about porting a PC game to console and vice versa. This is a new game developed for console, not the EVE ported on console, LOL. Complaining, that consoles have limited hardware capabilities for large maps and large scale combat? I think CCP is much aware of the console hardware, and if they are developing a game with these specs, they will do that, and prove, that it is in fact capable.
I was one, as an EVE player, who argued against the console only setup, but since EVE will get a new mini-game in conjunction with DUST (the planetary simcity), and the FPS wont affect the current sov system, but the new planetary one, I am pleased with DUST being only for consoles. If I want to play the FPS I will buy a PS3.
I laughed at that part. I'm sorry, but any development team which has people who get drunk and talk about innovation and showing people how to do "this kind of fucking shit" deserves my subscription fee. Nothing like a drunken nerd to loosen my wallet! :)
LOL i hope they do.... with DUST and MAG coming out, i'm sure it will show people consoles arent just for small maps and small numbers..... With how powerful hardware is nowadays i'm surprised anyone questions it.
So you are flying along in your dinky little Adventurer Spaceship (tm) and some guy who has bought an Imperial Battle Cruiser passes overhead and one shots you with his Uber Lazer Cannon of the Ultra Rich.
No thanks.
http://club-bear.com/videos/ watch and learn.
I don’t know much about market dynamics but I can tell you this as someoen with a certain amount of knowledge and experience; making a game for console is often an easier task.
You don’t have to make a game that has to try to work on every single PC setup on the planet. It’s PS3 and 360, nothing else. We all know that WII will never get a release.
This means, balanced gameplay on more fronts then on PC.
I might actually give in and buy a console just for this game, I greatly support CCP.
my only concern is that consoles are still not pare with a PC.
EVE is the heart of CCP they will always take care of thier core game. That said I seem to recall a video where a dev was saying they want Eve to be more than a space sim. They want it to be a BRAND.
They want people see EVE as a whole universe. One where if you want a to play Space Sim you can, if you want to play a RTS you can, If you want to play a FPS you can.
The idea is an admirable one. It is one that will take a long time and a serious commitment, which I believe CCP has shown that commitment. There will be growing pains and they know this. They also know to take baby steps, like only developing the game on one platform till they get it done right. I would bet eventually if it can be done right they will move Dust to PC.
Rest assured CCP will take care of its core, so don't be so afraid of inovation and growth, especially when the growth could bring such beneficial returns in the long run .
A lot of people are complaining about it going to the console only. Let me state just facts and remain as unbiased as I can:
1) A release to console only, of a totally new game for CCP, opens up a whole new market.
2) It enhances the gameplay for players of EvE for free (minus the subscription fee).
3) Pioneer a new trend of console and PC MMO interactivity
The only negative thing that happens in all of this is that EVE players who want to play Dust 514 will have to buy a console. A lot of EVE players will:
A) Buy Dust 514 since they already have a console. (guess is this is a medium to high percentage)
B) Buy a console and buy Dust 514. (guess is this is a low percentage)
C) Not buy a game or console and continue to play EVE with the enhanced gameplay. (guess is this is a medium percentage)
D) Quit EVE and curse CCP (small fractional percentage)
Agree or disagree?
I agree.
I would also like to state that if it wasn't for the PC cheaters! CCP would release it for PC.
But no these cheating bastids use aimbot and other hacks to get an advantage. That is the sole reason CCP wont release Dust on PC.
Dust will be mostly client side, we all know what happens on PC it gets hacked the f**k up.
Gratz that 5-10% of fps players that use those hacks ruined it for Pc only gamers, get upset at them not CCP.
I own both a Ps3 and 360 so im golden :)
I agree.
I would also like to state that if it wasn't for the PC cheaters! CCP would release it for PC.
But no these cheating bastids use aimbot and other hacks to get an advantage. That is the sole reason CCP wont release Dust on PC.
Dust will be mostly client side, we all know what happens on PC it gets hacked the f**k up.
Gratz that 5-10% of fps players that use those hacks ruined it for Pc only gamers, get upset at them not CCP.
I own both a Ps3 and 360 so im golden :)
I guess I could also add an E) New players will sub to EVE because they played Dust 514 and loved it. (low to medium percentage).
Your right, numbers sold does not always translate into quality. But more to the topic, I think what CCP is doing is something you will see more and more of in the industry. This is one of many upcoming experiments, with the end result being cross platform games. I do not know how it will translate into gameplay or popularity and neither to they, hence my term experiment. We are looking at the transformation of the MMO genre. Actually this is a quite exciting time. If one can forget his prejudices and keep an open mind about this, you might find it pretty amazing, as I do.
It is so simple ,CCP is trying to diversive their income sources ,they only have eve now .They are trying to move to console market with micro transaction model .If it had been published for pc it would be a reguler fps and no microtransaction income .
About interaction between eve and dust ;eve is the only thing CCP has now (until WOD reailsed) ,how would they market dust without eve ? Eve is the carrot on the stick for marketing .
Think Dust 514 will be Xbox only?
Its possible. I hear that the PS3 is much more difficult to code for. Its a powerful system, but with all of that power comes much higher complexity.
Way i see it is if [and its a big if] Dust fails it will have a negligable if any affect to EvE, so no EvE style NGE here folks!!
I think CCP is doing a good move as it opens a new market for them. A BIG very big market of the consoles' casual gamer.
As EVE player I Know that it will not affect EVE but only in the way that some console players can find this universe interesting and jump into EVE. They'll be welcome.
As FPS player I only would buy Dust 514 if I see it above the standards of other FPS games... But anyway, so as I don't own a PS3 I can sponsor others with my resources and weaponry to fight in the planets for me. :D (so that i will be playing Dust 514 after all)
i think most of you are missing a point
DUST mercs will not be the only way to take control over a sector on EvE planets, Dust mercs provide one things on planetary war "infrastructure" if you conquer a sector using DUST mercs you dont have to build the sector infrastructure later
Cosnole mmos are a thing of the future so best get used to it.
Warning this post contains opinion, reading it may cause knee-jerk reactions. Seriously though, I am sick of greed.
Greed based, entirely. All PC developers see the console as this Holy Grail, if they could just find it and sup from it, eternal MONIES provided by endless drones who guzzle seven liters of energy drinks a day and think Taco Bell commercials to be reminders to actually eat now and then. In these dev dreams masses of stoned morons paw at their controls eagerly attempting to purchase all DLC for their game as soon as they can work out which button is X. Does it suck? Who cares it will sell! Also, buy this gun and some power ups and a heath potion. Whoa, pink helmets are more! Maybe we can sell the "jump" feature? Leave it out of the release just in case we can patch it and say it was a gift if someone calls us on it... Ahh, thank you Guitar Hero.
I like EvE but this move doesn't smack of innovation (unless by innovation they mean old and rehashed ways to pry money from our hands with a new wrapper) it reeks of hamfisting a new game into an existing IP in hopes of buckets of gold and unicorn rides for all. By all means make a new console game but don't shoehorn it into something and hope people believe the buzz. I own a few consoles, Wii, PS3, XBOX 360, but I will not be buying this. Hell, as far as I'm concerned the console is the worst platform for shooters as it is.
Also, I wish developers would stick to PC or Console and not make a game for XBOX 360, then port it to PS3, then port the mishmash of garbage to PC... I'm looking at you GTAIV. I pretty much avoid multi-platform releases if I can at all, they seem to bring the weakest features of the console to the PC and do not exploit any of the PC's actual strengths. For the sake of being a total hypocrite Borderlands will be my one sin this year. Curse you Gearbox!
Avoiding multiplatfrorm releases will mean avoiding a lot of games. You can love it or you can hate it but cross platform mmo' are the coming thing. Hence all the experimentation such as Dust. We live in interesting times.
How are you defining "greed"? I've yet to see anyone who uses the term who can define it in a non subjective fashion. The profit motive(good old self interest) is one of the factors that makes even relatively free markets more effective than collectivist(of what ever ism) systems. I understand in theory why CCP wants to tap in to the console market. But I suspect in practice they are going to find its a long sequence of headaches, looking for a place to happen.
It's not an MMO, it's a shooter attached to one. I have nothing against FPS (I probably own more FPS than other games combined) or consoles, crying out "it's a new wave" doesn't make them peanut butter and chocolate. They can have all the MMOs they want on consoles, I just think this is a bad idea, period.
How are you defining "greed"? I've yet to see anyone who uses the term who can define it in a non subjective fashion. The profit motive(good old self interest) is one of the factors that makes even relatively free markets more effective than collectivist(of what ever ism) systems. I understand in theory why CCP wants to tap in to the console market. But I suspect in practice they are going to find its a long sequence of headaches, looking for a place to happen.
Greed has never made markets more effective, only more effective at making those in control of said markets richer. Less than 50 years ago greed was considered an actual sin, now it's a virtue to live up to and hold dear. Look where it got our economy. Capitalism is an ism, I'd like to point out. But the veiled slights aside, I'm a centrist, I'm fiscally conservative with liberal views on human rights. If we had actual free markets where success was rewarded I'd be all for it but as it stands people exploit the market and it's highly controlled in ways that make it anything but a free market. If you can't tell the difference between wanting to do well and greed I probably could never explain it in terms you'd like or want to hear. Everything is subjective, even the defense of greed.
Basing games (fun) sheerly on a profit margin never, I repeat never, works out in the end. When you base game design on maximum profit it rarely produces a "classic," yet games created with passion are usually the most fun. I'll admit it's not quantitative and you can't measure it on a slide ruler, but for the most part you can tell what drives a game and it's design by it's actual play. EvE was not based on what would rake in the most cash, it was based on what was perceived as "fun" and it struggled but in the end produced a stable source of income.
Greed has never made markets more effective, only more effective at making those in control of said markets richer. Less than 50 years ago greed was considered an actual sin, now it's a virtue to live up to and hold dear. Look where it got our economy. Capitalism is an ism, I'd like to point out. But the veiled slights aside, I'm a centrist, I'm fiscally conservative with liberal views on human rights. If we had actual free markets where success was rewarded I'd be all for it but as it stands people exploit the market and it's highly controlled in ways that make it anything but a free market. If you can't tell the difference between wanting to do well and greed I probably could never explain it in terms you'd like or want to hear. Everything is subjective, even the defense of greed.
Basing games (fun) sheerly on a profit margin never, I repeat never, works out in the end. When you base game design on maximum profit it rarely produces a "classic," yet games created with passion are usually the most fun. I'll admit it's not quantitative and you can't measure it on a slide ruler, but for the most part you can tell what drives a game and it's design by it's actual play. EvE was not based on what would rake in the most cash, it was based on what was perceived as "fun" and it struggled but in the end produced a stable source of income.
Chuckle... I wasn't really expecting you to define "greed"... Its one of those hand waving concepts that certain types of collectivists are overly fond of using for the emotional/class warfare impact. I must totally disagree with you in regards to self interest(other wise known as "greed"). It is one of THE major factors in making markets more effective. But I do agree that those in control of the markets get richer. They also tend to be the ones in control of the coercive governments involved. I've never stated that games should ONLY be made for profit. I've simply stated that profit is one of the major motivation factors(self interest again...).
Games purpose is entertainment and diversion. Those that are fun, are likely(several other things considered) to be profitable. Thats what is so entertaining about those who hate WoW. Many millions of people consider it to be fun, and stay subscribed to the game over years and years. Which is much more than can be said of many other such games. Good design and understanding of what fun is, go hand in hand. I wish CCP all the best in their move in to consoles. I just hope they understand all of the implications.
Defining greed as "self-interest" isn't something I'm going to agree with. Ever. We'll just say impasse and move on.
Is this something that you have read about CCP's reason for doing this, or is this just your opinion? I would be interested in seeing where CCP stated this if this is true because I haven't seen that anywhere.
I mean I hate cheaters with a passion, and like you said I think those small amount who do really ruin the fun for the rest of us PC gamers. That's an interesting incentive for developers to design games (especially FPS games) on the console instead of the PC unfortunately. How can you blame them?
You honestly have no idea about eve do you ? A t1 Merlin can cost less than one launcher on that shiny battleship, just recently I started doing something called fishing : ) or bait, you hang around an asteroid belt in 0.0 in your under $300k ship and fitting, along comes a hotshot pilot in his 25million isk interceptor and then you own his ass.
OR as I saw going on in 0.0 a few days ago 4 t1 cheap fitted destroyers used a strategy called fly by where you set up the cheap ships for extended range about 50-70km you warp in on an enemy who is in his very expensive cruiser/battlecruiser and 4-5 volleys of 350-400 dps per ship and boom goes that shiny ship.
Eve is all about using your intelligence, about thinking, situational awareness.
My first experience of eve pvp was when someone suggested I took the Agony Unleashed PVP basic class, this ended with 50-70 frigate full of people new to pvp travelling around greater wildelands and smashing pvp camps and expensive ships, it ended with an alliance responding with the only way they could they cyno'd in a titan they let off a doomsday weapon, yes most of our ships died but lets look at the cost 150m for pvp class including support ships, enemy brings in a titan and fires its weapon 80billion in costs + they accidently hit there own support ships with the doomsday blast :)
Money doesn't win you eve.