Sanya Weathers MMO Underbelly: Boobie Prize
Sex sells and Sanya takes a hilarious look at how MMOs and games in general have used breasts to capture the hearts and minds of the 18-34 year old male demographic.
Last week, in the discussion that followed my column, several readers took deep, personal offense at my phrasing of a particular idea, because I addressed my comment to an “average” and imaginary reader. That concept: game marketing targeted at the 18-34 year old male demographic is usually reliant on women’s breasts and guns, because it works. Although I was making a point about a general group, not an individual, some people can’t bear to be lumped into a group.
The rest of us are in the gutter and happy there. Don’t believe me? At the time that I wrote this column, the following image was the wraparound ad on MMORPG.com. I assure you, it wouldn’t be there (wrap ads are the most expensive ones on any website) if the ad’s designer wasn’t positive it would make his money back with dividends. Check out the way the gems are placed – subtle, eh?
;)
Here’s the thing. Marketing is the science of reaching as many people as possible, and hitting as many of their purchasing triggers as possible. Putting imagery on a box is not a study of individuals, or even niches. Men, as a rule, are more visually oriented. Men, as a rule, like looking at nearly naked ladies. So there may be two MMORPG readers who wouldn’t dream of buying a game because of the breasts on the box. The people whose livelihood depends on grabbing your attention (and soon thereafter, your wallet) are going to go for what they know will work fastest on the largest number of people.
So join me on this wonderful tour of game imagery, as the industry puts its breast foot forward.
Sometimes it’s exaggeration that catches the eye. The most famous example of this is Lara Croft.
;)
Actual women with large breasts will tell you that they do not run, jump, or rappel down cliffs without an undergarment that resembles a sausage casing. If Lara Croft was real, she would be totally unable to walk. She would fall forward with every step from the gravitational pull of her enormous hooters. Fortunately, she would not be injured, because her bosom would hold her face at least six inches above the ground.
Angelina Jolie, who has exceptionally nice ta-tas, had to wear falsies to match the mammaries of her character in the Tomb Raider flick.
;)
Boobs were not always part of marketing an MMO. Ultima Online did not use breasts, because frankly, they didn’t need to. Ultima was already a well known franchise among people into computer games. It would have been like marketing Microsoft with breasts – funny, but unnecessary.
EverQuest used breasts, because no one knew what the hell an EverQuest was. The late, great Keith Parkinson gave us a nearly naked lady who still looked virginal and sweet:
;)
She was still virginal and sweet on the first expansion box, but there was just a hint of BDSM there to spice things up:
;)
In fact, the EverQuest box art featured breasts right up until Planes of Power, at which point they didn’t need breasts anymore. Everyone who was going to play EQ knew about EQ. EQ2 box art didn’t bother with breasts for the same reason that Ultima didn’t.
Dark Age of Camelot’s box art didn’t have boobs. What no one knows is that the box would have had boobs, at least in the lower right hand corner, if there hadn’t been a last minute dispute with the artist who created the image. Instead of the cover, the painting became a poster and an inside-the-flap illustration, and the cover image was of the three cornered knot. With the first draft of the image, there was a lot of debate – is the elf wearing a bra or not? Is that a nipple? – but the final version was less ambiguous.
;)
Certainly by the time WAR rolled around, the use of boobs was not the least bit ambiguous. Elves were the last race to roll out, for a number of reasons. But really, the timing was perfect. The kind of player who would pick up a game strictly because of an imaginary creature’s upper torso is not an early adopter, or a fan of a franchise, or terribly discerning. So it makes sense to hold the breasts until relatively late in a promotional cycle, when you’re looking to pick up casual users who might not be familiar with the product.
;)
Speaking of late in the cycle, Aion has had some great early write-ups (full disclosure, one of those great early write-ups is from me) and is one of the best looking games to come down the pike. But even they aren’t relying on the imagery from their actual game to draw in the people who are just now going to the website to find out what this Aion thing is all about. Here’s the image from their current header:
;)
Guild Wars is a game very much focused on fighting. Such a martial game is going to go with a really warlike theme for their cover art, right? Well, actually, no. Bondage, maybe. Nice strappy armor, dear:
;)
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I love Guns... xD (all my MMORPGs avatars are girls...)
By the way, Japanese call the strategy of showing some skin in suggestive poses "FAN service"
So.... this begs the question now. What kind of box-art DO you make if you want it to attract a female audience?
Maybe they should have several different boxes with different art on them, like WoW had. Some with semi-clad women, and some with less obvious stuff.
Sanya, if you think that Vulcan image is something the ST license holders wouldn't approve, well, sister, you don't know jack about Star Trek.
From the Original Series:
To Enterprise (and trust me, there are some shots of T'Pol here that are way more revealing; search "mirror T'Pol...and yes, they are shots from the series)
and we'd be remiss to forget Voyager's Seven:
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm a red-blooded heterosexual male. I'm not going to find offense with any of those pictures there. That said, an attractive woman on the cover of a product won't blind me to the flaws of said product. Understandable the vast majority of my gender doesn't work that way. If anything putting a scantily clad woman on a video game to me is a warning that what's in the box isn't all it's cracked up to be most times.
i enjoyed this column. i knew most of the box art covers and obviously the whole lara croft thing, but i hadn't seen most of those banner ads before. i found the section on Civony absurdly amusing. i think gaming could use more objective gender studies. it seems to get plenty of negative stereotyped attention and i'm sure a lot of us on this site have heard the rule "there are no girls on the internet," but that's obviously not the case. i'm curious what marketers would do to appeal to women. especially if most women aren't "visually oriented," as was mentioned in the article. hmm... food for thought. thanks for the read.
Easiest way to put it is just that "Sexuality attract attention".
Nothing attracts the attention of a heterosexual man than a beautiful women dressed in skimpy outfits. On the other hand, how skimpy and what defines beauty can vary between each person, but generally there is a commonly accepted standards, and it is not hard to achieve those standards through drawing.
Personally I find giant boobies to be a turn off. I am more of a shape man, not a size man. However, when the artwork is well done then how big the the breasts are never even cross my mind.
Truthfully though, it is harder to get a woman interested than it is for a man. (Much like other aspects of life) The only way to appeal to the vast populace of women (I am not saying all) a game probably need to also promise love, wealth, and emotional attachments. Which if the MMO works as a dating service then it might serve the that purpose, but there are better dating services that take up alot less time. It might work for some, but not enough to make huge changes in the marketing strategy.
Another issue is women do not actively feel disgusted by a drawing of a beautiful woman in skimpy outfits in general, but men will feel or obligated to be repulsed by a drawing that features a male in outfits that are considered "unmanly" or "uncool". This also applies to colors, no matter how manly a piece of armor looks, being pink is enough to make most men insecure about wearing it.
Men's gender insecurity is much much worse than that of women's in general, which often manifest itself as a obligated rejection of any thing that are considered not befitting of a male role. However, lets stop here before it turns into a social and psychological analysis.
Sex sells isnt exactly new. Its used to sell just about anything you can think of and has been for a long time.
I like women as much as any red blooded male but if i bought everything i saw that featured breasts or suggestive imagery then i'd be in so much debt lol. With such an abundance of advertising i'm not sure how much sinks in as i know i just switch off to most forms of it now. Sure i still look at big billboards with sexy models but i wouldnt have a clue what product they are trying tp push.
And of course the main reason we get so much sex is advertising is a male dominated industry but they have evolved over the years to target women and children a lot more while the gaming publicity industry is still in its infancy.
It works on me. Sexy art makes me look twice - if it's too blatant like evony then i'll probably be suspicious it's trying to cover up a bad game but as long as it stays within the "suggestive but not too blatant" range then i'll look thrice too. I've never bought a game just because of that (so far) but it does make me more likely to read up on the game.
I actually don't think there's that great a difference between imagery that would work for both males and females. In both cases you're trying to create an object of desire but with a different context. As well as an image being a direct object of desire there's the desire to be like / look like the image. For me some kind of elfy ranger dude spying on an orc camp through a bush would have a similar pull to Firiona Vie in bondage but for opposite reasons. It's why you get so much imagery of kickass female characters in sexy outfits. The females notice the kickassery while the males notice the outfits.
Not entirely sure of the message here. Is it;
(a) The game industry is comprised of low-down dirty men who exploit women for monetary gain?
or
(b) Men are stupid and buy anything with boobies on the box?
My answer to choice (a) is; There are men who exploit women because there are women in the world who allow themselves to be exploited. By the way, many of these women reap the benefits as well as their evil masters.
My answer to choice (b) is; So what? Those men who do (hypothetically) select purchases based on this principle are acting in accordance with their genetic coding.
The bottom line is; Most men like looking at beautiful women and those not-so-beautiful will persecute the male species for this predilection.
Khal - I used to work Star Trek conventions as a volunteer just so I could get in for free. Setting up hundreds of folding chairs so we could all enjoy the anecdotes of Red Shirt #47 is my specialty :)
With that said, my first reaction to being told the Vulcan image was too extreme to be in the game was "DEANNA TROI, DUDE." Followed by "T'POL WEARING BLUE GEL." Also, I used to play a drinking game where you had to do a shot every time you thought you saw Uhura's hoo-ha. I mean, for real, those skirts and the Uhura perch were just a disaster waiting to happen.
Um, so, my point is, I am aware of the naked lady stuff in Trek Lore. Probably to an unhealthy degree.
But I haven't seen any of that in the game, and I'm reliably informed that Stripper Vulcan there was an image that was created strictly for the magazine, and does not appear in game, and the rumor is because it wouldn't have been approved.
Hope that clarifies!
c) Some of the posters on a previous thread said games marketing didn't involve copious amounts of boobage and leather straps. This retort post is a (pleasingly) data-heavy proof of the original point.
Grym: Er... neither? Last week a couple guys were bitching that it was just AWFUL of me to point out that there are huge numbers of dudes, particularly in the 18-34 range, who will seriously buy anything with tits or triggers.
I was chatting about this with my editor, and we thought a little picture tour of advertising would make a fun column.
Anyone who tries to fight human nature will lose.
I do feel that it is silly of people within the gaming industry to sniff and say they market at men because women don't buy games in the same numbers... when the default style of marketing is clearly aimed at heterosexual males, and I couldn't resist throwing that point in there.
But no adult professional gets bent out of shape at the idea that boys like boobs. It'd be like being offended that grass is green. I made a lot of snotty comments about Evony because... dude, look at the ads! I can't resist that kind of snark bait!
Or I could have just let Tupo answer, because he did it faster and better :)
/bow
I'm man enough to admit i just looked at the pictures and read the paragraph about DAOC.
I'm just waiting for someone to say they don't look at box-art boobies, but pick up the box for the feature list instead.
BEWBS! ;)
Wow,this is amazing,because not more than an hour ago,i saw the new Atlantica add,and thought the exact same thing lol.Funny how sometimes you think you are the only one ,with that line of thought and something like this pops up.
I would have to say this deserves a VERY simple response...TRUE..how TRUE.It does not work on me,i am far too finicky,but i bet it works on a lot,i remember the hundreds of related posts before AOC came about.
Heck look no further than You tube videos,people put out some videos to show off their talents ,and every post is related to the females looks,it is is pathetic really,tons of immature people out there.Now i realize some videos are a joke and are nothing more than sexist videos,so they deserve what they get,but not all are like that.
Personally, I always looked at system requirements.
I almost wrote this same article myself when I saw the first ad you showed in this. I enjoyed it very much so I guess I can skip this one :)
Jim Carrey in Liar, Liar pops into my head after reading this write-up :)
I really love boobies
There is a booby prize? Where can I sign up and if I win can I get them in a C cup :)
So true.
If they advertised for none heterosexual males between 14-whatever, they might have more woman playing. But seeing half naked woman on everything related to gaming can easily turn off many people.
So don't expect that to change.
I loved it! Witty and fun. Social commentary one loves to see. Sanya's wit is great! I enjoy so many of her articles.
Waiting for FF14 is a bi**ch , but Sanya and friends make it an easier time.
Very funny and extremely true! First article that made me laugh here in a long while.
One thing though Sanya..
I don't know how this photo of me keeps getting reposted.
I had returned from the barn after cutting some fresh steaks off of our Angus cows out back and saw this guy snap a pic in my direction. I thought he was a nature lover snapping farm pics but next thing you know, I'm see my body all over the place!
Please stop using me as a sex object. Thank you.
Another enjoyable read Sanya, thanks!
As a female gamer myself I can say I don't mind looking at sexy ladies in game advertising for the most part. But sometimes it's so blatent I feel like it's saying the game is really not for me. I remember one game that launched a while back had looked quite interesting to me and I was looking forward to playing it. The initial ads were sexy but not extremely so. The art design was very attractive and the women in the ads complemented it. As launch drew near however, the females became more and more the focus of the ads and you could actually watch their bust sizes get bigger and bigger. Finally I couldn't take anymore boobs in the face and gave up on the game. I felt that if there was some actually fun content they would have focused at least a bit on that, instead of relying so much on breasts to draw players.
As for Star Trek, it was one of the more fair IPs giving nearly equal time to beefcake. There were many episodes were Kirk took his shirt off, or had it ripped off. Sulu in The Naked Time with his rapier. Who can forget Khan in The Wrath Of and his low cut shirt. And of course there's the classic skant:
Boobies will grab my attention and make me look twice and check it out. It works for an attention grabber but that's about it. It will make me pick up the box or check out the sight and from there it all depends on what it has to offer.
I will have to say the only thing i found fun in SWG was rolling a dancer :)
you forgot Blade & Soul
Guys like pictures of scantily clad girls? You don’t say? :)
And long may it be so, the day guys didn’t would be the day we had to rely on artificial insemination to propagate the human race.
I am always amused when the old ‘there are more men in activity X because the advertising is aimed at them” argument. That’s because the advertisers worked out that more men do the activity, so naturally the advertising is aimed at them…its egg followed by chicken, not chicken followed by egg.
Is the reason I don’t wear make up and a dress because the advertising is not aimed at me? It is always possible to find a pseudo sociological reason to avoid the fact that men and women are different. Possibly on a genetic level or a hormonal one, it is hard to say why. But we do like different things and not just because of advertising which just follows pre existing trends. These differences should be celebrated not made a taboo. The drive to pretend we are all alike, regardless of race, culture, age and sex is an Orwellian one.
Let’s celebrate what makes life so interesting. not try to be one boring blob of humanity.
I remember an AoC promo video before launch where Erling Erlingsen zoomed in on a succubus boobs and said:
"Look at the BOOBS, this game is all about BOOBS, Conans world is all about BOOBS" or something...
Thats where I lost faith in Funcom and AoC...
I agree with your point often I see a box cover and think oh Bewbs but then think back to how many truly awful games have resorted to that method so if anything it deters me from a game.
From a pre launch marketing perspective though they do work I had no interest in Warhammer until I saw the Witch Elf so I then researched the game and it sounded decent so gave it a shot (it sucked) :)
This form of advertising definately has it's place and it doesn't just appeal to male's.
Males generally mmo game for the sake of gaming.
Females its more for the immersion and escape from reality so showing them they can become this strong willed sexy woman in game through a box cover can have great effect with the female audience also.
Boobs and attractive females are used to market products to women too. Last time I checked most men didn't buy makeup or female clothing etc. Why have super hot models for makeup products? I'm not going to tell my wife "ohh look! she's hot with that makeup! Buy some of that!"
sex and violence are what american culture has degraded into, and violent sex is the biggest crowd draw of them all these days, if aoc hadnt cut the sex interaction content to dodge the rating it would have kept alot more subs. instead they slapped a thong on the chicks (there was a mod to remove it of course that was out before the game even released) but cutting out the cutscenes from the sex rewards and most of the sex rewards, and not to mention the prostitution removed alot of the more interesting content and left us with a mediocre pve game with badly balanced pvp. /rant off
So how old do you think that female on the right side there for Dragonica is...?
It is one thing to have the bewbies, cause the guys love the bewbies - but then things like that are just wrong.
Great read, nothing more nothing less :p ^^
What about the awesome lineage 2 .... dark elves (aka porn elves) , even the orc women have an alluring quality :)
I just wanna say that I first stumbled into your articles/editorials last week, but I am already a fan. You write an amusing column :)
I am occasionally attracted to it, yet usually annoyed by it.
It's not so much that I find it insulting to my intelligence—although I do—but rather that I do not generally find such large breasts attractive. There have been some exceptions, but I typically find that such endowment seriously hampers any elegance the character might otherwise have, lugging around such tubs. Not sexy. The in-game models often look better, which just isn't right.
The thing that I have long realized and accepted: Most men and women have COMPLETELY different ways of appreciating the EXACT SAME THING. Example, I'm comfortable enough with myself to say that I think breasts can be lovely; but I'm not going to sit here drooling over myself like I got hit with a 6 second stun.
Is a women flaunting her goodies on the cover of a box going to catch my eye: Yes
Is a women flaunting her goodies on the cover of a box going to sway my decision on signing for a sub: No
Both sides can be stopped by a pretty face or a scantaly dressed girl the motivations can even be the same; but our method of appreciating is completely different.
You've lost me. Things like what? Big bewbies beneath big heads?
You've lost me. Things like what? Big bewbies beneath big heads?
It is not a big head - it is a young head - what appears to be an underage head.
Judging from the other characters from them as well as player characters from the game; that is what we would call an adult; though she doesn't look that way, per se.
I have to agree with Sanya the exploitation of the female anatomy is rampant in this genre.
Female Avatars in many of these games are just as bad. Men's armor is head to toe coverage while the women's has barely enough coverage to make it legal.
I don't know of a game that does not do it sadly.
And do you have any ideas on how we could stop it???
i coudlnt stop laughing XD i wish more blogs and articles were this funny. but yea, im a guy and actually base my choices more on screenshots to see what a games like. combined with a review.
stab our eyes out?
on a more serious note, what i find most amusing is the claim it's directed at the 18-34 age range. i don't think too many 34yo lose sleep over boobs on a game box (they've oughta seen enough if not live then on the net by that age) while for a 14yo in the middle of hormonal chaos it might be a very interesting thing.
It is, what it is.
Women in suggestive poses always grabs attention, that's the point. It's not just positive it's also the negative attention, they want it all.
Finally someone speaking out about this subject
I am getting so tired of all the "hot gurlz, big boobs!" advertisements that I usually put away a potential game when I see it... I liked the pictures of World of Warcrafts original box.....because I love mystique and odd yet feminine faces
Just like my characters online in any game I try to get rid of revealing clothes and like to focus more on the colouring and accesory like necklaces, shawls etcetc..thats fun ^^
So, while I might technically fall under the "heterosexual" "male" audience I often feel very uncomfy with it, and this is just another example why ^^
Good blog Sanya :0)
Im reading feminist science studies and you made me laugh alot with this article becuse it points out some awfull strutctures without beeing to serious and dull. Keep up the good work.
xxx
from sweden.
Yes but (hey somone is going to say it eventually i might as well take the heat)
can we see yours?
jokes aside: it really is simple Sex Sell and no industry is safe.
Mirror universe ST, To'pol's Pon Far (how many horney men downloaded thost episode from youtube?)
Slave Leia, Slave Leia, did i mention Slave Leia?
Super girl, hell almost any super-chick (though to be fair i think the short pleated skirt she wear works well for a super hero, better then spandex, try doing a high kick in tight pants you going to rip the crotch seam more often then not)
Name one industry without TNA, i can't
...so the question is hanging there. What can be put on a box to capture the female attention? Is it spacific words in glowing red just put to the side of the Boobie art? Something that catches both the eye of the guy and the interest of the gal for the the same level of "Whats that about?"
1000 styles of shoes to customize
Sorry for the stereo type as I am quite aware this is not typical <as my wife as told me>. But what social tag could attract the gals? Think about it.
Superheroes balance it out with plenty of beefcake. Not that I look..or anything. *eyeshift*
An industry without T&A? Cold medicine. There's just no way to make runny noses and puffy eyes hot. :P
I think there is a misperception here of the article on many of the responses regarding "I don't buy this because of boobs" or "I don't base my decision of whether or not I buy a product based on boobs". The point was that it was never meant to make you want to buy, but to catch your attention. Personally, whether or not I was male or female, I would look twice if I saw an attractive female with a nice rack on a box and maybe will pick up the box and read what its about. That's all it was meant to do, catch the attention of those casual gamers that might have NEVER heard of the game.
I think attractive women with boobies will attract more attention then say the guy with the bloody axe posted a couple pages back in this thread (sorry popinjay ;) women > men even if you are more naked). If you don't believe this, look at how many more friends female gamers attract than male gamers (both male and female friends). I feel fairly lonely compared to my girlfriend, no one new ever bothers to talk to me, they are more interested in her /cry.
And another example in regards to boobs specifically, how many times do you accidentally glance at your big-breasted female friend when talking to her face to face. I can't say that I'm not guilty of it as hard as I try I couldn't seem to help it and I think its just human nature, as Sanya also posted earlier in this thread. You can't resist it ;) (I say this safely as a male, I wonder if females accidentally do this too, and I really do mean accidentally hence no quotations around it).
18 - 34? How ageist, I'm 37 and although it woudn't be the defining reason for me playing an MMO, I love a firm pair of boobs and a cute ass much as the next guy!
I never understood why people made such a big deal about game artwork with big breasts. It's really not a big deal, and it's been used in many different types of media. It's not like there aren't dudes with huge muscles, either.
Bit of a pointless article, really, although quite amusing. Why pick on MMOs, or even computer games for this kind of analysis, when virtually everything is advertised with sexualised imagery?
The kind of heavy-metal album cover fantasy cliche art beloved of marketing directors doesn;t workfor me, because although I like to think of myself as a heterosexual adult male, my aesthetics of beauty tend more to the Jean Seberg/Audrey Hepburn end of the spectrum.
I certainly don't dispute that advertisers and marketeers place huge belief in sexualised advertising, but I think it's a bit naive to conclude that they actually have any idea whether or not it works. I was a marketing co-ordinator for a large insurance company once and I commissioned, placed and on occasion designed and wrote copy for advertising campaigns. We had no metrics to measure the effectiveness and in the couple of years I worked there no-one ever expresed any serious interest in why a campaign "worked" or "failed". Everyone was always far more interested in the next clever idea than looking at the detail of the previous one.
I'd be far more inclined to believe the box art looks like that because that's what the guys working on the game (or on selling it) find personally exciting, rather than that anyone has any actual audited comparative data proving it increases sales.
Superheroes balance it out with plenty of beefcake. Not that I look..or anything. *eyeshift*
An industry without T&A? Cold medicine. There's just no way to make runny noses and puffy eyes hot. :P
well except most cold medicien comercials are full of hot blond chicks almost as if they were saying "she would be so much sexier without this cold...why dont you get our product and be her hero?"
Ok, an article about "big boobs for commercial purpose" and men-related cliches.
What about the cliche that women who start discussions on men-related cliches such as "men are being attracted by big boobs" most likely have an inferiority complex (in this matter:do feel "undersized") themselves?
;)
I like this article, was a funny read. And very true, most gamers won't buy anything because it has tits on the package, but it will make them look twice, and while looking the second time the game might seem interresting enough to be worth the money.
I also want to thank you for the nice pictures ;)
Playmates toy company?
Personally I don't think it has to be especially different - plenty of women like that fantasy art style, especially those interested in fantasy mmorpgs, and can like the box art for similar or different reasons. I think it's mostly just a question of being more subtle. If it's too "in your face" (no pun intended :p ) then i'd imagine it could be embarassing for a woman (and some men) to carry over to the checkout, whereas if it's sexy but subtle then it'd be easier.
Also, i think it has to actually be sexy fantasy art and not just flesh on its own without any context - the evony ones in particular aren't really fantasy art at all.
I agree and personally, I don't care how in your face it is; but I'm shameless too.
I agree and personally, I don't care how in your face it is; but I'm shameless too.
Lol. Yeah. I'm just thinking on average :)
Its human nature, guys just happen to be more willing to go with their nature
Thanks again Sanya.
PS. Loved the title
Hrrrm, seems one sided, I know plenty of girls who enjoy chest bubbles as much as I do.
Also, it's funny she uses Tabula Rasa as a "If they had shown more" example....I have an issue of Playboy where her, the AoC assassin chick and a Cabalist from Hellgate: London posed.
If anything, going all the way topless destines your game to flop.
No pun intended.
Daniel Floyd did a great video with his opinions on the topic that supports some of the positions here...
www.youtube.com/watch
Heck yes, I love well-endowed women in my video games! No, it's not going to be the sole reason I keep playing a poorly made game, but when you put two games side by side that are technically similar in design, yes, I'm going to enjoy the one with lots of cleavage just a little bit more. Okay, a lot more... ;)
Edited out of redundancy.
I'm one of the people she referenced when she said that some people took offense. I posted on her original column.
I'm not arguing that game companies obviously use attractive, buxom women in artwork to sell their games. It's Sanya's simplistic generalization that there are hordes of 18-34 year old who buy the game BECAUSE it has tits and guns. If I walk down an aisle, I'm going to stop and look at the game with the huge tits. Of course I am.
But I'm not going to buy the game because of it. And none of my gamer friends do either, and they all fit into that 18-34 year old demographic. We buy the game if it looks like it will be fun to play, not because the woman on the cover has huge tits. And although we notice the games with the biggest tits first, we will dig through the racks of games to find the one with the most interesting gameplay to our styles.
Marketers, commentators, and developers greatly exaggerate the affect on profit from having huge-titted women on the cover. Sanya is just echoing a common resentment women have about pixelated game women (or any women in media in general), and the accompanying, although false, conclusion that young men think with their dicks and not with their heads.
We like our dicks. We give our dicks visual treats whenever we can. But ultimately, we buy games with our heads.
The real question is if Sanya ever customized her avatar's chest-size to the minimum?
It's good to see this subject brought up. I was thinking about this the other day. Now, full disclosure here, breasts are nice but I like butt. And hips. And butt. They make me a very happy fella.
So how to start into a thoughtful post after that? That's a good question, so I'll just get to the point and say that I was looking at some MMOs and was actually annoyed at all of the T&A. No, I'm not claiming to be an activist or a whateverist. Maybe it's because I'm a 30 year old guy who's been gaming my whole life, but I can't be the only one who's getting tired of it. There comes a time when it's simply too much.
I actually wondered about the thoughts that go through the artists' heads.
The women hardly ever wear more than lingerie, or when they do then it's some tiny skirt that shows off her panties at every possible opportunity. Heck, sometimes it's so short that it creates its own opportunities. Then there are the nipple straps that skirt (and probably trip a little over) the line of being legal for anyone under the age of 18.
Blade & Soul and Tera come to mind. Their artwork made it impossible for me to take those games seriously.
Hah! I sound like such a prude when I'm not even close..
Anyway, a classy looking woman is going to grab my attention and money faster than all of that T&A.
As far as the advertisements here on mmorpg.com are concerned, what you see as of the date of this post is nothing compared to what's been up before. There was an ad up with such blatant loli that I found an image that showed a male's hand giving candy to a group of little girls. It had the caption, "I like where this thread is going". I used MS Paint to cross out the word "thread" and replace it with "site", then posted it.
Yeah, I got a warning for that one.
Wait, OP has determined sex sells?
That attractive people/boobs on covers of magazines, products or commercials make people notice?
Wow, I had no idea in every industry since the beginning of time when Ug first marketed the 'wheel' as a sleek and sexy way to move your Grok from the field back to the hut, has sex been used to move products.
Thanks for an article about the blatantly obvious?
Future Sanya articles include;
1. This just in, turns out Combat plays a big role in most MMOs!
2. Apparently, most MMO's are played over the "Internet" whatever that is.
3. It seems a lot of men like looking at pretty women
4. I've noticed that when breathing in, you must also exhale afterwards.
5. I think MMO's are businesses designed to generate profit. If this is true, it could mean that they are wanting you to spend some of your money.
Here is hoping she chooses to bring us stuff we didn't already know in the future. Her talent as a writer is wasted on this one.
Ahh, ok, I'm with ya know. I don't think their (Cryptic) art direction for the game would be flattering for such images anyway, lol.
That drinking game must have made for some interesting evenings as I'm sure everyone was piss drunk 20 minutes into a given episode!
Humans are hard-wired to be more interested in faces than any other imagery. That is the primary reason why commercials like to place a face (or human) somewhere on their ads.
On the other hand, I don't think that boobs make a difference. The idea to combine boobs with fantasy images seems to stem from the sword and sorcery pulp comic predecessors. As wikipedia claims Pulp magazines «were famous for their half-dressed damsels in distress».
I don't think that Nielsen (or some other marketing agency) can get proof for the boob theory. If you give men, out of context, images of women showing more or less and ask them what they prefer, well… doesn't proof that they like to see it on the box of a war-sim. So it looks like that marketing folks think: «we should put a face on the ad, and since boobs are possible in this genre, we play it safe and include them».
It is interesting that the influence of modern times did not remove the boobs, but rather turned the damsel in distress into women warriors.
I didn't really read the words but now I've got a bunch of MMOs I need to play :)
Another minor downside to so much breast in MMO advertising is that my non-MMO friends will assume that's why I'm playing. Again it's a much smaller factor than the signups the ads will generate and I never considered not buying AoC because of this.
nevermind.
Honestly, I think system requirements on the box are as much a marketing trap as big bewbs are. Seriously...when have the minimum specs ever been even remotely close to realistic?
Normally the reccomended requirements are closer the the minimum requirements than anything, heh.
Degraded? It's always been there, my friend, and long before america came to be. I find it funny that people think society is degenerating into sex and violence...when it's always been there. Go take a look at rennesaince art some time. Sistine chapel...hell, check out the ancient greek sculptures and art that hasn't been defaced.
The core of most legends, myths, folk lore...all have something to do with violence and sex. Honestly...two core things that keep a species alive. It's always been there.
+1
We're not kids anymore. Will boobs attract the roving eye? Definitely. But guess what decades of playing ultimately disappointing games does? It turns you into a hardened cynic. In fact, one of my earliest thoughts on a game that comes in a package with a chick on it is, "I wonder if this is another shit game trying desperately to squeeze a last few sales?".
Like jcpillars said, sure I'm gonna look. But my next step will be immediately to scan the box for any list of features, or how the general blurb goes. And then (since I never impulse buy anymore), I'll google it up and check out a bunch of reviews and as many forum comments as I can stomach. Nowadays, this almost invariably helps me find the main flaws of the game which people didn't enjoy. It's saved me a ton of money.
So, did the marketing people do their job? Shrug, they got my attention. Did the tits factor in inducing a sale? Definitely no. Without the tits there's no saying whether I'd miss seeing the box or not, and regardless of that I'd read up beforehand on any game before making a purchase. So basically that advertising dollar was wasted on me. I'd just as likely look up the title of a box with something else on it, e.g. since I'm also a sci-fi fan I'd certainly be intruiged enough to look up something that had a gizmo on the box art as well.
Dana was this some weak cover so you could google boobs at work? It's ok, we have all done it before. "research" is a vital thing if you plan to write anything.
Sanya did the googleing, but Dana might have been there oogleing saying "Yah, those will do" or " can you email that set...SITE to me?"
There's a long tradition of sexy fantasy art. In most cases the sex angle is partly subliminal i.e lots of flesh and / or leather straps but in the context of fighting a monster the sexual angle is pushed into the background somewhat.
There's also a long tradition of cheesecake art involving nekkid women and T&A.
I think the first kind of art is full of win for both genders from a marketing point of view. When it strays into the second i think there's a trade-off where it attracts some people more but others less. There'll be a cut-off point somewhere where it goes too far and brings in far fewer players overall.
I disagree with the video lecture linked in an earlier post. I think being able to chat at the same time is the biggest reason a disproportionate number of females prefer casual games. It's not the game it's the chatting - with a game to play in the lulls. That segment of the potential market wants social first and competitive second in my opinion, whereas mmorpgs, especially the newer ones, are competitive first and social hardly at all.
Personally i prefer momorpeggers with just a small number of geeky women but if these type of games want to attract more females then i think they need to either stop having "consta-clicking and staring at the hotbar" type combat so people have the time to talk more or a twin-track game where there's social hubs with slow mini-game type activity that allows the more social type of player to socialize a bit while the other types go off to slay giant turnips.
Also, back on topic, i'm wondering if there's a major distinction between P2P and F2P or at least between games where you buy the box and games that are downloadable. I wonder if the sexiness (or attempted sexiness) of the artwork has a direct impact on the number of downloads of the downloadable F2P games. I'm thinking it probably does. I think there'd still be a cut-off point where the art is too pornesque but that cut-off point probably higher for non-box games
Very well done artice and a fun read! I have always been amazed at the box art work showing men is armor/leather outfits while the women are scantily dressed in next to nothingness. Don't the women get cold like the men and need armor protection in battle? The sexism from this type of box artwork has caused allot of potential female players to MMO's not to play the game because of the way the female was dressed or undressed.
I think you will also find those MMO's that didn't have the female almost naked on the box cover did much better from a marketing perspective and game success, than those that showed an almost naked female.
My favorite boxart of all time includes: Sacred 1 with the sacred symbol on it, Fallout series which shows a masculine figure suited up in armor, and Wasteland which has no humans on the cover at all.
I love looking at women but I don't spend my time, or money to do so. I am heterosexual yet I've never been to a strip club. I am also 29 years old and have had several relationships in my life.
I'm not arguing for some of the impulse buyers who are male sex sells. It's unfortunate but it won't change until our society and cultural norms shift. It's just a fact of life, unfortunately.
I highly doubt most of these marketing campaigns made much of a difference in game sales, and I know by reading this thread that overt sexiness turns off some women, so it potentially hurts sales. The reason it's perpetuated is probably because of the younger demographic you did not mention, the 12-17 year olds who put in false birthdays to get to rated M sites and games.
That demographic is much more likely to click on a banner ad that shows a nearly naked woman than the demographic you reported on.
Gamers as a whole are starting to encompass a larger general population than where we stood 20 years ago, when you had to dial up to the local freenet on your 1200 or 2400 baud modem and there was no World Wide Web to speak of.
Ladies: If you want to send a message to the marketers and tell them to start including stuff for you as well, then contact the game developers and let them know what you like/dislike and how they can EARN your money. Times are tight, I'm pretty sure most devs would be willing to increase their income if they knew they only had to make a few minor changes in their marketing strategies.
And fellas: the best way we can get out of this stereotype is to only buy games after we've researched them and vote with our wallets. Once the marketers know that boobs aren't going to pay for their marketing campaign we'll start getting real marketing campaigns which highlight features, content, and future content development moreso than what we see already.
My 2 plat,
-Cym
The first time I saw one of those Evony ads was on Somethingawful's website, and at the time I was certain it was another one of their pisstakes.
Woot!
Bout time someone got it right. Woman on the front cover aren't there to drive sales, but to just get guys to actually give the game a chance to make the sale. I would be the richest man in the world if I earned money for every time I saw a 1/2 nude lady riding the cover on a piece of media, then read the details and put it back.
Sex only sells in the erotica industry. However, sex does appeal everywhere else.
You have to be pretty naive to believe that the sex on the cover art or ads does not sell the games. They would not use it if it didn't. Maybe if does not work for you, but it does for the vast majority.
Remember most of the posters on this site are much more knowledgeble of the genre than the average buyer.
Imagine a 14 year old who is not socially experianced as most of the folks here. You start to see the real target of the box.
Well, sex as an advertiser basically sells the product itself....and does it quite well. I mean, what kind of great game would dare post something other than a female warrior in bikini armor on the box? As if a cover that actually depicted game content that made people want to pick up the game and head on home to play immediately exists....Pfffffft.
Well, boobies on the cover will get any heterosexual man to look at the cover one more time and that's kinda the goal. If the money where in displaying hot males scantilly clothed, we would see alot of that instead, but it isn't, therefore we have all these half-naked ladies on the cover of whatever product displaying some boobage. Not that I'm complaining mind you
I must admit though that the display of some half-naked chick on a game cover do tend to fire up a few warning signs in my head.
Oh, and +1 to Malakhon for some funny trolling
Advertising to generate traffic is one thing- whether it be to go to the site or pick up the box and boobs accomplish this. However, to say that boobs actually effect real sales of said game is absolutely silly.
Hey wow, nice boobs. I wonder if there are any more pics like this... nope... hmmm, decent gameplay- graphics are a little dated... SOE??!?! *box drops to the ground in disgust*
As a female gamer I am shocked appauled and humiliated I want to sue! J/King.
I'll be the first to admit that interesting cover art often catches my eye enough to pick up the box and then read the back. I like it when the art on the cover is eye catching even if it is a chick with to big boobs. But then I'm into fantasy art etc (not naked chicks but still). I can understand why advertisers go for whats going to make gamers especially male ones stop. It probably does however get glossed over by females who enjoy casual games but aren't really 'gamers'.
Still impressive box art with hot chicks kicking ass never bothers me and I dont know how anyone can try and state its not true that alot of box art isnt' targeted this way...because it is! Anyone thats been gaming for a while knows some of the best box art in the world (not necessarily good game) has hot chicks on it!!
I agree 100% that they use half naked women to sell MMOs to men. My problem with that article is that it's presented as an anomaly, and a tactic to pull in only males.
Is the problem that womens breasts are used to target men? Or is the issue the use of the unclad or nearly unclad female form to sell merchandise?
One of my first peeks at a nude female breast came not from Playboy, or the box of any MMO but from within the pages of my mothers Vogue womens magizine. While I do not remember what the ad was for, I highly doubt it targeted men 18-35.
I have never seen a woman so bitter towards the other sex, but then again I wasn't alive for the bra burning days. I don't know if it's just that she has a troubled dating life or guys don't pay attention to her (and with such a sweet innocent personality why wouldn't they want to?) but at least this time she didn't disguise her anger towards the male gender in an article of something else so kudos to that.
Sex sells isn't a saying for the sake of it, it is truth and has been since man evolved into societies. One of the oldest trackable professions is prostitution, clearly it's not only the modern 18-25 year old age range that enjoys sexuality.
But to focus on the scantily clad women in MMOs is to try and twist the facts. It is a fantasy world, just like all the women who are sexy and wear small amounts of armor, the men have bodies like Arnold when he won the Universe title. And in case you didn't know, very few guys look like that in the real world. But then again none of the guys playing the games are bitter about the pixels having a better body then them.
It's not just guys who are targetted by sexuality. Brad Pitt, although a good actor, got his chance because of his body. That is the sole reason he was cast in Thelma and Louise. They don't try to plan ways for him to have his shirt off or be naked in every movie he does by accident. Not to mention the craze over Twilight because of the dreamy effeminate vampire boy that the women loved. The only reason this marketting is not more common yet in video games (although it is already present) is because of the size of the female gamer market. As more women get into gaming, more ads with sexy guys will be used to target them.
It is sad to deny the truth that it has nothing to do with the small age range of guys that you used without any facts to back it. It is the truth for human beings and the interest in sexuality is the reason people are here today. It's not even just humans, most other mammals spend their days thinking of the opposite sex and trying to get laid.
But who am I to point out how bitter and bad of a writer Sanya is, but they clearly use her as a means to stir up controversy which they view as a traditional way to stir up business. That means these silly writings of hers will continue on unfortunatly.
Oh, good. I knew something was missing from the comment thread.
Hadn't logged in for a few days, I wouldn't let you down.
I dont have time to read it all but I do know it works!! Men love it and we dont deny loving it. Keep the sex coming!! We will buy it. LOL
Arent you taking it to a high personal level with your post about a unknwon human beeing bitter? If you have read the authors article with right type of glases you would have laughed as I did. To bad you seems to be unable to switch your perspective and that makes a you quite narrow minded person, sadly.
BOOBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
While the ads are nice to look at I can't say I've ever played a game based solely on ta-ta art. Although, it certainly does grab my attention.
doesn't have the blood elf woman when you log into WoW with the breathtakingly perfect set of boobs.
Meh the imagery doesn't really buy me over, it might of when I was 9-12 years old or something but other than that I could care less what is on the advertisement...
I do my research on a game before I purchase it so this may not apply to me since the box has nothing to do with my purchase. I won't stand in a store and go "oh hawt rack! i'm gonna buy this!"
Bring back the chainmail bikini!
Boobies ftw, both rl and pixel
B ( . ) ( . ) BS !!!!!!
I don't buy everything that has titties on it. Although, like probably 99% of all heterosexual men I at least pick up the product and check it out. So the advertisers mission is almost always at least half accomplished.
DON'T JUDGE ME!!!!!!!!!! :P
when things go mainstream they don't sell anymore unless you put titties on them.
Funny column, you forgot Eye of the North for Guild Wars though hehe...
The box artwork from ArenaNet had never really stricken me as particularly suggestive, though maybe because I'm used to worse examples of scarcely clad women on game boxes.
Doesn't the bait go for both genders though? Or is the vast majority of female gamers (actual and potential) sick and tired of being mostly given the choice of physically attractive avatars?
I'm merely curious - and only gone through a few posts.
These comments of "sex sells, get over it" seem to come from guys who have never bothered to look at this from the perspective of a prospective female gamer. Let's try it. Roleplay is fun!
OK then, I'm a female gamer. I come across a website, oh let's say MMORPG.com, that is chock full of ads for disposable free to play games. I'm looking for a game to waste some serious time in. Presuming I'm interested in a gaming role other than modeling or prostitution, that I'm looking for a virtual residence where I can squander my time whacking stuff with a sword, solving quests, helping he-damsels in distress, and maybe making stuff to better whack things with. Its the noughties. I'm a tough chick who likes to kick ass.
The ad to the immediate left of this post features a girl in a bikini with the slogan "Come and play with me." Well it turns out I'm not a lesbian and I get enough sex that I don't need a poorly animated Flash cartoon to get off. And as I keep looking, I notice that there is a predominant factor to all these ads. They're all apparently wanting me to play their games so I can shag women, maybe, if I'm lucky, after rescuing them from the dragon, although that might be optional. Or maybe I get to be the woman that gets shagged by some basement-lurking mouth-breather playing the game in Belgium. FTP games set the bar for entertainment pretty low, but even so, I feel turned off already. I think I'll go kill people in real life now.
[End roleplay]
I hope that helps.
I always look at the feature list instead, but then again, I'm gay and the current marketing trends aren't targeted at me.
We are sexual beings, men and women. Sexuality is a huge part of our lives, no matter how much you try to deny it. It's only natural for someone to use it as a tool to grab your attention or sell a product or service.
Women spend just as much if not more money than men, so why aren't they getting more sexual advertising that will grab their attention? We know that it works. Remember the diet coke stud (shirtless construction worker) commercials? They drew in huge sales and garnered lots of attention.
Try watching some foreign commercials. You'd be shocked at the amount of sexuality they put into them. They aren't afraid of it and they are more than willing to target straight men, straight women and some even target gays and lesbians. I think it's funny how America, one of the leading nations of the world, is also one of the most prudish when it comes to sexuality and sexual marketing.
A chick talking about other chick's boobs... cool...
:D
Best line: "Nothing says combat instancing like cleavage, nipples, and leather:" - ROFL
I liked the article very much! And have to say that, as a true male heterossexual, I'm easily drawn to ads with sexy women - or parts of them. But no, it won't keep me in a flawed product.
A seductive box cover of a game in the store may not make someone buy a game, but it certainly helps to have people pick it up to see what it is, to take note of it. A good cover helps expose a game to the passerby.
At work (library), we were recently compiling checkout numbers on books. There was one boook that had 2 copies. The older copy has practically no cover art. The book is actually in better condition than the newer copy with new artwork. The checkouts on the 2 books are, 3 checkouts for the poor artwork, 36 for the newer artwork.
That didn't even deal with sex, but something visually appealing helps compared to something that is not. Of course it is not true for everyone. I buy based on supposed quality, or if it is just something that interests me. I have also discovered many things I would not have noticed because of a good cover.
Names of things do the same thing too. I probably never would have checked out dark age of camelot if not for the name. I was like hmm, camelot, dark age, lets see if this is any good.
A good cover, an intriguing name make the difference between say 600k copies sold and maybe 800k or more. The numbers are skewed of course, but the number will always be higher with a more alluring cover.
Wow, absolutely earth shattering info....
Agreed. The first time I saw the Evony ads I thought they were links to porn sites. Imagine my disappointment when I clicked on them. :P
Don't be upset, I find your columns to be enjoyable and offer alternative perspectives. Keep writing!
Btw, I just finished reading "The Red Queen by Matt Ridley" which explores the evolutionary reasons why men and women act the way we do. Very interesting if you have the time.
I read this thread by looking at the pictures only.
This was an amazing article, Sanya, and it proved your original point perfectly. I just loved it.
That said...I clicked the Evony ad because I wanted to know what they wanted me to "Come play, my Lord."
That imagery attracts my attention, it does. I am not saying that's a good thing.
Of course, that's advertising. I'd like to see you do something about how, in the games, females wear armor that looks just like the ads. You will never see a fighter going toe to toe with a demon wearing some of the stuff I've seen them do exactly that in some games over the years. A thong is not exactly battle gear. I can understand it in the ads, that's money, but I think there is some serious sexism on the part of the artists when they design clothing in that way. It's no wonder there are fewer women, when even men can be disgusted by some of the vulgarity inside the games themselves.
I'm a guy and I like breasts. I'm not the least bit ashamed to admit it. As I was reading this rather entertaining piece of writing I decided to go and look at all the box art I have on the games I've bought. Oddly enough none of them really have scantily clad women on them. Pretty much all of them have artwork relating to the game in some fashion. I actually just went through them all right now and the only one that did have a suggestive woman on it was Guild Wars. Granted a lot of those boxes were DAoC and a boat load of it's expansions but even the WoW boxes didn't have cleavage on it.
By the way I like Sanya's writing style. I got a few good laughs out of it and I look forward to more stuff like this.
Im 41 yo and boobs and sex and guns still work :p ask me wife hehe
LOL I think this is one of the best threads I've read in a while, I just cannot stop but laugh about this...its so true how women are pretty much used in every ad there is out there to draw the audience. I mean I actually asked one of my friends if Envoy was some kind of a porn rpg LOL. That was an embarassing moment. But yeah, whenever a female is on a game, its really easy to draw yer eyes upon the girl then the game's name comes up and the rating and the system requirements...but its always the female character that draws me to the game,...then its the game's stats that draw me afterwards =p...
So clearly, the economy will get better if every single thing that was being sold had a female somehow a part of it...i mean..imagine big macs with beautiful females ontop of the boxes... the amount of big macs being sold would actually double or triple I imagine...
wow trash blog with trash talkback revolving around the same hackneyed comments.
the truth is that these female avatars have big boobs for the same reason they have tight asses and strong arms. everyone, men AND WOMEN prefer their characters to look striking and attractive. how many WOMEN played troll females in EQ , what's the ratio of women who play TAUREN females versus NE or BE in WOW? the metrics prove beyond doubt that women themselves prefer these attractive characters OVERWHELMINGLY to a degree equal or passing male preference when they roll these characters.
the same can be said about men. basically MMOers are losers. they might be social but honestly the higher income/athletic/get laid type of male demographic doesn't have the time to play MMOs. likewise human male avatars are strong or intimidating because 180lb 5'9" dudes dont want to log into a game where their guy has a pot belly is bald and looks as lame as they do IRL.
I'm not sure which is more LOL, the fact that Sanya complains about BOOBIES in MMOs as pandering when her very article is doing the same thing... sensationalizing tits to drive eyeballs. except what Blizzard is doing is a hundred million dollar business and her sellout involves like 500 more page hits lol.
this doesn't even ignore the fact that going back 100 years to dime store serials, there's a historical aspect of scantily clad women AND MEN in this genre, this isn't something SOE or Blizzard invented. like class archetypes, random dice rolls, grouping etc it's part and parcel of the genre. if you think BOOBS are why an 16 year old plays WOW... lmfao. guys play MMOs for social grouping, for killing other players, for accumulating digital wealth to compensate for the lack of it IRL etc etc. if you drew a list of things that motivate MMOers, tits would be about 25th on the list.
in truth every MMO from UO to WOW to KOTR SUBLIMATES the inherent sexuality AND violence in the genre. it's a disneyfication of any whisper of sex in a game that involves the SOCIAL INTERACTION of millions of adults. if anything Blizzard and others have purposefully repressed and whisper of sex in the game to move more product and appeal to kids and a wide audience. you have it ass backwards
As a girl I tell you, one of the things that gets you sometimes is the art on the boxes. Growing up playing video games, it's rampant and thrown in your face constantly.
I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but sometimes it gets to me. I have to take a step back and just stop playing for a while since it's always ...everywhere.
But, it's going to happen no matter what, so, it's not necessarily a bad thing cuz guys are guys. Not gonna change.
I think that the message here was: Men like boobs and women generally dont mind boobs.
The article had nothing to do with blaming "the male species for this predilection". The article was poking gentle fun at the phenomenon... er history if you want, of the mmo boobie prize. Not blaming it.
Oh and for b) aren't the men also being exloited here...
Yeah, I get where youre coming from. But for me, as a girl. I dont really care. Looking at box art for games, i would usually flip it over and read the back anways. But if there's too much boobage, you get the feeling that this game is compensating for something...
This witty and charming article has provided me with a new perspective on things (being male as I am) because I never saw the Guild Wars box art (hmnn leather, nipples and leather)
*ponders going off to stare at the box art but after doing his zaishen quests of course :D*
I liked the article, Sanya.
The Evony ads in particular are notable for this in that they go so completely over the top; the ones you linked in the article were older ones; there's one ad that they posted that was just a full-on up close shot of cleavage. Not even fantasy artwork cleavage; just cleavage in a bra, with a blurb about "best online fantasy game" or something or other. I found it funny rather than offensive, but it's not hard to see how others might be shaking their heads at it.
Anyway, great article, was an entertaining read ;)
I don't buy this sexist thing at all.I am so disturbed by this i'm going to watch Shania Twain's "Don't be Stupid"video :D :D
After that i need to vent by wrestling with Gina Carano :D
I hope i'll be able to relax after this nightmare ,Megan Fox usually comes over to watch some Taylor swift and Carrie Underwood videos with me.
This topic is so "Hot and Cold"I wonder what Katey Perry's take is on this whole scandal :D
gross over exaggeration... and reading way to much into things.
There are 3 important factors that need paying attention to.
1. In games and certain film, making a clear distinction between male and female is important. The more pronounced the features, the better. Women with developed breast show that they are indeed women, in contrast with men with muscles show they are indeed men. Lower the muscles and the breasts and you create less distinction, the character could swing either way.
2. Looking good! Not many people like playing ugly characters. Remember these are essentially avatars.... when women go out they want to look their best, often sexually appealing (since its a form of female empowerment). Men are no different. Game adverts love showing this.
3. Its universal. You do not need text, but rather an image that attracts attention and shows off those features above...and it becomes universal. Women statistically spend more money, time, and effort on clothes in the real world. Multiple pairs of shoes, makeup, everything they can to look good for them and for their perception. Many are well aware of their breasts if they have them. Why would this change in creating and playing a games avatar? Its all about perception.
I didn't read the story - just looked at the pictures... I do believe there are more breasts in the ads on this website than were in the article.
devs should make females have sexual emotes
Nothing wrong with appreciating the female form in all it's splendor :)
It won't however sway my decision to purchase games.
Good times
I like to give props to the ads which have more realistic breasts or ones which attempt to remotely fit the frame of the woman they put them on...it gives my fiancee' & I a good giggle on occasion :)
I dread the day when they show some man junk to sell things o_o /gasp
That would be gross.
Sorry, this chick really doesn't like to look at peni all day, that's pretty ick. A nice looking guy with some awesome armor, a big sword, and a mount that isn't a horse (cuz I like games that have a big variety of mounts) and you've got a cover I can really stare at for a while.
That would be gross.
Sorry, this chick really doesn't like to look at peni all day, that's pretty ick. A nice looking guy with some awesome armor, a big sword, and a mount that isn't a horse (cuz I like games that have a big variety of mounts) and you've got a cover I can really stare at for a while.
Good news lads!
That giant phallic compensation of a sword you raided for for 3 months is actually more desirable to women than the real thing!
The boobage is rampant. More these days than ever before I think. The creepiest are the cartoony F2P games that look like they could be Saturday morning kiddie shows if not for all the voluminous cleavage. Weird.
Subtlety is the key. A good ad should say "I'm sexy" not "LOOK AT THESE!! WOOO!!"
Of course they use Breasts in the advertisements! Who doesn't like Breasts? 1 Thing about Marketing that is true about every thing: Sex Sells!!! Why do you think Models exist? Why Porn Exists? I am a Man, And I am a GAMER!!! And I will say with PRIDE!!!!
I LIKE BOOBS!!!
I LIKE NUDITY!!!
AND ONCE IN A WHILE I LIKE TO CREATE A FEMALE CHARACTER INGAME SO I DON'T HAVE TO STARE AT A MAN'S A$$ RUNNING IN FRONT OF ME WHILE PLAYING A GAME!
VIVA THONGS FOR FEMALE TOONS!!!
"Nothing says combat instancing like cleavage, nipples, and leather"
Amen
Good news lads!
That giant phallic compensation of a sword you raided for for 3 months is actually more desirable to women than the real thing!
what are you fat? girls love my real thing
Good news lads!
That giant phallic compensation of a sword you raided for for 3 months is actually more desirable to women than the real thing!
Hmm, maybe i'll have to get into raiding after all.
Good news lads!
That giant phallic compensation of a sword you raided for for 3 months is actually more desirable to women than the real thing!
Hmm, maybe i'll have to get into raiding after all.
gang raid on someone?
I noticed that a lot of you don't look at both sides of the grass and women are quick to assume and point the finger at boobies and sex appeal to females in video games and then guys are quick to point the finger at the industry being full of dirty men. Ok, let me throw this down. Even men have their own appeal to men in video games. Look at the top male heros in video games. Almost all of them are buff studs, possibly white or asian, and kicks ass. Female gamers like that stuff too. Male gamers like that too, but that don't mean that they are homo/bisexual. Kick ass girls like Lara Croft and Chun Li. Got the beauty, brains, some brawn and the body. Guys like that. Girls like that too, but don't mean tha they are homo/bisexual.
That's why I don't like these discussions because they relfect one whole side and not the other. If game heros were 300 pound pimple faced, scaly, unatractive people then people would be less intrested. Male, female or creature. Even DOA has characters for females to look at. Sometimes I do think this is a shilvery issue. So some of you either need to discuss both sides or get over it. Sex appeal to both sexs have been going on since before the video game industry. Chill out.
Hmm, maybe i'll have to get into raiding after all.
gang raid on someone?
No, you vile troll.
so what if we like to admire beautiful bodies?
That's what I'm saying. Look at my last post.
It doesn't work for me.
Every week, MMORPG.com and FILEPLANET.com have super half-naked huge breasted women ALL OVER their page.
Do I look? Like 500 times.
Do I click? Never.
I don't know about you, but I'm too old for this trick. Everyone who has used the internet before or has gamed past their ignorant teenage years knows that there is never any reason to click those, or any other, half-naked ads.
Of course, I'm not the average male, nor am I common in my mature understanding of false advertising. Most guys click things like half-naked anime korean MMO ads, and check out the game. It's for the same reason men call the 1-800 number for EXTENDZ or late night dating phone lines thinking "Girls THAT hot are on this phone line?! WOW!"
You would think people would be smart enough to realize "EXTENDing" yourself with pills is physically impossible, pheremones and "secret" potions to win women aren't real, hot chicks do NOT call those phone lines (I assume... I guess it's POSSIBLE, but I've never tried but severely doubt it. Wouldnt they be out somewhere else?) , VIDEO GAMES have absolutely NOTHING to do with women, naked, or sex, and other things like dating websites or "The Secret to Charming Women" are nothing like they claim to be.
But they're not...
And the only reason marketting advertises boobage to men instead of pec-age to women, is because men are a DEFINITE success in this kind of advertising, and business people like the safe approach. Just as in any business, trying out new things is often scary, and thus shunned by people. If you were to show off scantily clad men who are sexually exagerrated- just like stupid men... stupid women would click in droves too. Why? Because it's a Myth that women don't like sex. They're just as horny as men.
Another reason is obvious though. People LOOK and check the game out because of the sexual images. They BUY it because they play video games. Since men are the primary gender who play video games, the marketting is geared towards them. If WOMEN played video games more than Men- you would see sexually exaggerrated men all over the place. But starting an advertising campaign to appeal to the sexual apetite of women wouldn't bring as much profit- because they would get the attention of millions of women, who would click the product and say "Oh...I dont play video games. CLOSE!" many times greater than the mine, who more often DO play video games.
I wonder though, if men are stupid enough to believe they can take a placebo and grow their parts- why havent the ppl at EXTENDZ and ENZYTE done the same thing for women, with all-night commercials claiming they enlarged their breasts with a placebo? Women are the same as men when it comes to believing this kind of stuff (some do, some don't) so it would obviously work. And if you can exploit men, I don't see why they don't exploit women too. Afterall, this guy could be both the ENZYTE and the BOOBZYTE guy:
Just to answer the dude above me, they do have products aimed at women that claim to enhance the boob size, reverse aging(wtf), diet products(which many come with serious health risks not to mention that yoyo-dieting, which these products cause, in itself which is quite damaging to the health) and so on.
Women are as stupid as men and will click on, buy and use all those bullshit products and placebos cause they think it works. They even convince themselfes they see a change in size, weight and aging signs. As we men panic about our penis size, so do women panic about their issues. I'm not saying all do though, but a good percentage do.
Women are as visually oriented as we men. Have you ever seen the cover of a romance novel? Practically every cover has a well sculpted man on it with his chest exposed. I've seen ads on tv that target women(like jewelry) were they got some guy who I hear women call hot. As I type this reply, to the left of the post body is an add for Fiesta that has a well sculpted male with his chest exposed. The only reason we see more female cleavage then male cleavage in game ads is because the gaming community is dominated by men. The romance novel industry is dominated by women which is why you see more half-naked men then women on the covers. You women are as bad as us men. We are just more open about it. My sister choose her favorite football team because they looked hotter in the particular uniform.
funny read. taking this site in particular, it does seem to be riddled more often than not with bosom heavy ladies, but then again i also seem to recall way too many underage little girls of the japanese anime style as well.
while it may all be a nice distraction for a second or two, any mature brain worth its weight in water will automatically know that the makers of those games are usually doing nothing more than overcompensating.
in all my years surfing on this site, i personally have yet to join/buy any game i have seen advertised here, boobs or not. well, ok, i did buy age of conan, but that was honestly in anticipation of being able to hack and slash in conan style, not because of some tart.
and just for the record, the EQ chick is ugly, flubbery boobs and all.
Wow, Archangel, you must be so much better than everyone else. Truly, you are a king of men to know that this is a trick! However, assuming the game is bad because there is a large-breasted-mind-numbingly-hot woman on the ad doesn't mean the game or the product is bad. And mentioning enzyte and extendz or whatever is just stupid. Please, everyone with any sense knows that isn't real. It is the pathetic and the desperate that do that. Stop being such a tool.
I think the thing that annoys me most about this type of advertising is the blatant sexism. That is, that the gents all have full armor gear or when not, they are practically neutered. No package at all. It's as if the male designers are so revolted my their own anatomy that they remove its existance entirely on their MMO males. I think the female images are stupid. The clothes they wear would never work because they don't leave anything to the imagination and protect nothing. Are guys so revolted by their anatomy though that they have to remove any hint of a package? That is really weird.
Personally, as a gay guy, I like the buff male art, but for god sakes give the guy a package. You don't have to put in physics to make it bounce like all the effort that is put into boob physics, but let the guy BE MALE for god sakes. Give us gay guys and the few gals who play something to look at too.
Boobs and swords..not guns I say.
Nothing wrong with marketing like that.
I never did clue into the whole strappy armour with bondage. Goona have to pay attention a little better.
And WAR's opening movie, even plays a little with girl on girl action. Where the sorceress has the female high elf trapped and at the last second just blows her a very sensual kiss instead. With a look of promise in her eyes (well at least that how I seen it) :)
What kind of idiot assumes that games are the only ones who use sex to sell? Beer commercials anyone? Hell look at what shape LIPSTICK is and think about that the next time you ladies are rubbing it on your lips @@. Notice the shape of mens cologne and other items? Every time you walk into a store you get bombarded with sexual stimulus because it sells.
Computer games are strangely retro in this. Computer games have always been much more conservative in many aspects, strangely so. Like storytelling or character concepts. While in the movies and books we have very succesful launches which tread new pathes and sorta adapted to the modern world, games still cling much to 1950ies stereotypes. See "The Witcher". The typical, sorta disgruntled macho man, screwing every woman he can, still staying with the cool distance, never attached, everytime above everything. You get the idea.
Actually I don't believe the "booby prize" really sells so much more. Are there really a substantial portion of gamers who buy games based on cover pics? Hard to believe, I must admit.
First, personally I don't like games to be over-sexualized in any way. I don't think porn and games make a good mix, so to speak. And second, I think it is a matter of balance. It perpetuates a strangely old fashioned concept of women as passive objects of male wantoness, and thus a kind of old fashioned idea. It's often bizarre to see those games filled with women all with perfect slim bodies, perfect doll faces and uber boobs, and male chars either square jawed and square chest or ugly as the night, or actually both. can understand, games are dreams and people want to see beautiful things. But why are WOW female chars beautiful (relatively to their art) and males are all ugly and square-chested?
It is this imbalance which irritates me. I prefer game characters to have character, and not to be some doll-model-like stereotype. I find that rather boring to see games all filled with barbie-dolls.
Call me conservative, but I don't think a society should be so over-sexualized with nudeness, boobs and whatnot everywhere you look. Let quality sell, and keep that lockerroom pics to your lockers and bedrooms.
Was reading through the article but a couple things to point out. First in the Guild Wars category, Guild Wars also has a strong female lead role, while Eve (the bondage chick, as you so tactfully put it) isn't necessarily that lead role, she does play a major role in the gameplay and lore. Devona was the lead female role, followed closely by Cynn (both can be seen here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94_U8byqTBg ) This was the same with Lineage 2, which you neglected to mention. Also you did not mention the role between the female characters and their cover art. Yes the box art is there to entice, but not just men. Give men the clevage, but give women the cover as a sign of empowerment.
Also if you are going to speak on this compare the role of women in the game to box art, look at holistically; not fixated on what facet. You did mention how EQ and EQ2 don't fixate on that anymore, but neglected GW2. As well leaving out many other games that push the limits even further with the gameplay, like APB. I think your article was thus very one sided, and it saddens me to think there is still this kind of gender bias on the side of journalists.
I do.
I'm a 50+ male and, at my age, you appreciate the female form in a different way than a drooling 20-something boy. Besides, mature males don't use the word 'boobies' -- we refer to them as breasts. Anyone over 30 still using adolescent words SHOULD be ridiculed.
If you want to date attractive young women, you only have to do one thing -- turn 40! I don't know what it is -- maybe women see younger men as too immature -- but I have dated more women in their 20's as a middle-aged man than I ever did when I was their age. I think we treat women with more respect and that could be part of it also.
So, you keep the word 'boobies' little boys and I'll keep the dates.
wtf! that must be the replay ive ever wanted to see! badgerer, you made my day :D
Edit: this is for you www.youtube.com/watch
hehemmehemmm
someone said "boobies"
Since female gamers are increasing in number, the gaming industry should find ways to market to both genders.
Let's face it they're everywhere we can't fight them so we might as well join them,
just like the picture of the beautiful kitty i found
I do.
I'm a 50+ male and, at my age, you appreciate the female form in a different way than a drooling 20-something boy. Besides, mature males don't use the word 'boobies' -- we refer to them as breasts. Anyone over 30 still using adolescent words SHOULD be ridiculed.
If you want to date attractive young women, you only have to do one thing -- turn 40! I don't know what it is -- maybe women see younger men as too immature -- but I have dated more women in their 20's as a middle-aged man than I ever did when I was their age. I think we treat women with more respect and that could be part of it also.
So, you keep the word 'boobies' little boys and I'll keep the dates.
Haha!
Boobies....BOOBIES...boobs...boooooooooobbbbbbbbbssss...
Lighten up dude. Your self-inflated image of yourself and your drivel about how 'mature' men don't use nicknames for parts of the female anotomy is idiotic. They do and they will continue to do so and I've seen it a thousand times.
Oh, and as a note, I'm 35 and I still use nicknames for both the male and the female anotomy and your other point that 50+ something treat women with more respect is useless drivel aswell. Age got nothing to do with that at all.
I drove a cab for a number of years and the most perverted, sick and rude people where people in their 50's. Really great when you're 20 something and get alot of horny 50 year old widows in the backseat, or that drunken 50 something man who tells you how useless you are sitting on your ass earning money and how you trying to fool him off his hardearned money. Right, so cabdrivers money aint hard-earned? You have to talk with the shit you drive from a to b so yeah, I think cabdrivers money is quite hard-earned.
The polite people where the 20 somethings. Ask any cabdriver you can see. They will tell you the same story. The older people got, the more obnoxious they got when drunk, or even tipsy. Sometimes they didn't even have had a drink, they where just pissed off for some reason and decided to let the cabdriver get the heat.
Once had a bank director, yes a man who make a few millions a year take a shit back in a cab. Ofcourse he denied paying for the cleanup so the cabdriver had to call the police. The rude moron had by the time the police got there taken a shower and denied the whole thing when the police was at the door. Luckilly for the cabdriver, his wife woke up and asked when he came home from the nightclub and what all the noise was. Only then he broke down and admitted the whole thing. This is a guy around 50 years old, so yeah. Age got nothing to do with your maturity, sense or politeness. On the contrary it seems to get worse the older you get.
Got a few more stories about 50 something being an ass to cabbies, people around them and even authoritites but thats for another thread.
When I said mature males, I meant mature in action and thinking, not age. But I can see where you would misunderstand since you are not one of them...
When I said mature males, I meant mature in action and thinking, not age. But I can see where you would misunderstand since you are not one of them...
Then word your posts better. My impression after reading it was excactly what I wrote up there, that somehow middleaged men where better than people younger than them. Now that's a joke if I ever heard one.
Nice read. Honestly, I like excellent gameplay. I like attractive women. I like inspired graphics/art. If a developer can get them all working together, I'll happily buy. Nice breasts won't sell a game to me, but if I had to choose whether to leave them out or put them in...please put them in. Ideally it won't be so tawdry that it alienates my female counterparts, and with luck they get a few base cravings met themselves... It's really all about how it's done. Nothing wrong or juvenile with enjoying the human body in a totally overt, sexual way. It's fun - and isn't that the point of gaming?
wtf! that must be the replay ive ever wanted to see! badgerer, you made my day :D
Edit: this is for you www.youtube.com/watch
I don't know what that vid has to do with this thread but thanks, I loved it :)
I made stop-motion cartoons for several years for tv, but nothing as full on as that. Here's mine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvvId0ocp8Q
Heh, anyone that thinks a game marketing department doesnt use the female form to sell their game is just kidding themself, horribly. And in concolusion...
Hooray for boobies! :D
I freely admit I'm being a bit hypocritical here.
But being female myself, looking at row after row of "boobie art" on game shelves does get rather exasperating after a while...
My REAL beef however with game companies (and indeed most media) is the blatant one-sidedness of it all.
Sex sells. Duh.
Isn't that great? Hooray for boobies and all that jazz...
But with all the "hot babe" obsession game companies have, they seem to forget that women buy games too.
Put "hot babes" of BOTH genders in there!
Luckily, there's a lot more Japanese game companies willing to cater to the female crowd.
Ever heard of the word "Bishounen"?
Ever wonder why so many of the men in Japanese games are half naked and look so effeminate?
Because sex sells to women as well as men.
Don't believe me?
Do a search for the term "yaoi", or look up "yaoi-con" in the states.
Most of the fanatical fans of that particular genre are women.
Homosexuality doesn't even really have to have anything to do with it, but most male gamers dismiss anything that doesn't look "rugged" enough as "gay", so pretty much any effeminate characters are usually pegged in there with that kind of stuff.
Unfortunately, western game companies are kind of dumb when it comes to marketing games to women.
They seriously need to catch up with their overseas counterparts.
There's very few female "fan-service" oriented characters in western games.
(something I personally attribute to the aforementioned willingness for male gamers to label it "homosexual")
I won't complain about stuff like the DOA jiggle-fest, so long as I get Dante bare-chested in his leather (quasi) bondage trench coat, The Prince of Persia's insanity-strip-show, or Testament from Guilty Gear :D
Keep the boobs, and add more bare chests without boobs.
Add in more skin tight pants and/or bare legs for both genders as well.
I'm serious! :P
What's good for the goose is good for the gander!
Then word your posts better. My impression after reading it was excactly what I wrote up there, that somehow middleaged men where better than people younger than them. Now that's a joke if I ever heard one.
Word my posts better? Its not my fault you don't understand the difference between age and maturity. Increase your vocabulary, Scooter.
Then word your posts better. My impression after reading it was excactly what I wrote up there, that somehow middleaged men where better than people younger than them. Now that's a joke if I ever heard one.
Word my posts better? Its not my fault you don't understand the difference between age and maturity. Increase your vocabulary, Scooter.
Now that's a risible idea if I ever heard one. Happy???
English not my first language anyway...Not even my second, heh...
YES PLEASE! I can appreciate that men like their boobs; I like mine, and I like to think men do too. But I would like to see more of this in games these days. Especially with the surge of people in this genre that WoW caused, there are more women in this world with the men. I wholeheartedly believe that most women will stop and look at a game with a gorgeous man with his chest bare and gleaming in the light just as easily as a man will stop and look at a game with a gorgeous woman with her chest…mostly bare and gleaming in the light.
But we live in the world we live in, I suppose. Like other people have said, a man revealing himself might make me look, but it does not rob me of my good sense. I would not buy a game just for the cover. I would need to know, or at least believe, that the game inside is worthy of my attentions. I would hate to be caught by the clever art and then buy a game that I did not enjoy.
I love this topic in all its complexity.
Being a hetero male that tries to spend as much time as possible with the opposite sex, I also find the female reaction to cleavage-marketing interesting. I could say that female sexuality is more complex, or just admit to my ignorance. Just because I like women and spend time with them doesn't mean I understand them. Easiest to say that women's tastes are harder to pin down. What they think is sexy or attractive is almost abstract at times, while cleavage is a reliable eye-catcher for men. I know women that buy into that marketing because they want to be associated with sexy women, or some such...
Some women like Cosmo, which uses cleavage marketing like no other. Others hate it as immature drivel.
One of my old roommates used to complain on the EQ forums that there wasn't enough sausage or beefcake in the game while a female half-elf in full plate looked like she was wearing a thong and a bustier. The responses to her posts were also interesting.
My current girl is busy experimenting with EQ2 outfits for her Barbarian to reveal as much of his skin as possible. She won't let me delete my woodelf because "he's so cute." But she hates AOC because the smallest breast size acheiveable on the slider is a C-cup. She refused to wear certain armor in LotRO because of the tight-leather-crotch appearence.
I get tired of the chainmail-bikini-armor mentality too. Armor should look like armor, which is not flattering.
Though I freely admit to liking cleavage. It will certainly get me to pick up the box in the video store, but I will try to look for something more. Just cuz you're easy on the eye don't mean I'll buy you dinner, darlin'.
Sanya, you really do suck at writting articles, this is the second idiotic segemnt i've read from you. So what , women , like asses and men like tits, it has been that way since the bipeds started walking the earth, it has been that way since the start of cinema, seriously need to just stop writting mmorpg articles and do the wweather or something that utualizes no subjective writting input, for real..
Actually, the original Star Trek was forced to abide by the studio's very strict moral guidelines. In truth, they wanted to push the limits a lot more than they were able to. For example, they were stuck with rules preventing a woman's belly button from being seen. (Maybe lint gathers there?) The underside of breasts was equally taboo.
All of this ultimately lead to one of the earliest ST:NG episodes (Justice, if I remember right) where the costume designer seemingly delighted in breaking EVERY taboo from the original series. Among other things, the women wore outfits that revealed both belly buttons and the undersides of their breasts.
Anyway, thanks Sonya for another great read. This one was a hoot!
Unfortunately for you most heterosexual males that look at a box and see a male character that looks vaguely homosexual will be leary of buying a game due to their "insecurity". So having 2 seperate boxes would be a cool, but having a hot chick, and a feminine looking guy on the same box, well that would probably be bad for business.
I am not sure about you, but I see belly buttons in the original series in the post that you quoted before you said that there were no belly buttons in the original series. I am not sure you have watched enough Star Trek.
Solareus: Wow. I am not usually nice, but there is no reason to be that scathing to a person doing their job. The article was much more well-written that most of the stuff here, so just because the content is not what you are the most interested in is no reason to behave that way. There are many people writing articles about things of this nature that everyone already knows. This, however, was a direct response to people from a previous article claiming that this was not the case. Sanya just proved them wrong, and she did a good job. So you should either shut up or pay attention to what actually happens before you talk.
Dude... have you actually READ her articles?
Insightful, witty, out-of-the-box writing style is how many on this forum have come to know Sanya.
Btw, before you criticize someone for their writing, take a good hard look at your own. Sheesh!
Them GUNs are set to stun
Very true that you see Buttons on the gals in those Star Trek TOS pics. However, that was pushing the censors to get those for these 1 time costumes in "Mirror Mirror". It was a standard of TV in the 60's to not show (regulary) the very aluring Belly Button. Check out the episodes of "I Dream of Jennie" and tell me how many times you see Barbara Eden's naval.
It's all very fascinating, but I've always been very sceptical about advertising in general.
Maybe there are just masses of extremely gullible people out there, and I can understand
using imagery to grab attention... but to actually make a purchase or subscription to a game
because it has a pair of almost-but-not-quite naked breasts on the cover? With the amount
of free porn available on the Internet it would be very odd if men were purchasing these
games for the chance of a little bit of cleavage.
The Duke approves of this fine reporting!
Superheroes balance it out with plenty of beefcake. Not that I look..or anything. *eyeshift*
An industry without T&A? Cold medicine. There's just no way to make runny noses and puffy eyes hot. :P
I dunno Lucy Lawles might could pull it off ;p
well, you know, maybe i'm a fat, ugly, hairy dude and that be my only chance to see some TNA (even if it is pixels)? I don't see anything wrong.
If a game sux, it can have hot dressed/naked girls/women everywhere, it will still suck but at least it has bewbies. However, if a game sux and has no bewbies at all, that's even worse.
But the cherry on the cake is when a game is really great, and in between it has some really nice drawn/modeled female characters (the witcher prostitutes for example, female characters from mass effect, etc). And if i get to choose the gender of my character and appearance, I choose staring at great female ass/bewbies all the time because i will probably never get my hands on such pwnage pron female (partly because i like playing video games too much perhaps).
my2c.
/flameshield on
Top pvp teams in Guild Wars consist mainly out of female toons, dressed in what generally is accepted to be the sexiest outfits. Those pvpers are all male except for a very few (in top guilds anyway).
I also have to admit that a fighting female warrior in GW is damn sexy :) So I probably wouldve done the same.
And the people who wont admit that they can find pixels sexy are a bunch of idiots. Your brain reacts to those familiar curves :) and doesnt really care how convincing the rest looks. Otherwise Playboy wouldnt be so popular. Its just paper after all and your are aware that you cant *cough* paper. Still you react to the image even with that knowlegde. We are not that evolved lol. Some people just pretend to be.This goes for both men and women btw.
Dude... have you actually READ her articles?
Insightful, witty, out-of-the-box writing style is how many on this forum have come to know Sanya.
Btw, before you criticize someone for their writing, take a good hard look at your own. Sheesh!
Sorry, i don't let a writers gender effect my disgust for poor writing abilities. I'm not the one writing about complete and utter idiotic veiws that have been a staple in entertainment for decades. Please tell what is insightful about rehashing things that are common sense and already known.
Think a good article would of been " How my breasts get me writing jobs." Maybe take an approach in that line of thinking and figure out how bad female writers out way bad male writers ?
Before you say "but dude, you look at the breasts too" my reply , no shit sherlock, I'm a man.
Maybe write about the different levels of sensuality in gaming designs from the classic to slutty style game developers follow. Pointing out that all men like the same level of sexual content is absurd, as well as biased to the lesbian population that play the games. The article is not resaerched and pretty much , picking screenshots to words with no available references to support the claims.
Loved this! Truly.
While I agree that marketing will use female anatomy to sell products to the primary target demographic, there's also one other element that I think has resulted in a large amount of breastacles on the packaging.... it's also the fantasy genre... that sword and sorceress half-naked thing that a lot of fantasy games have going for it. This has translated into space (even in BSG, the toned-down version, there were breastacles, remember the three-breasted lady?) which is why there's one really hot Borg chick in Voyager.
And the truth is that while more and more women are playing games, they are not nescessarily playing MMOs. Female gamer numbers on the ESA survey includes console games such as the Wii, which is a big favorite. I do think more women are playing MMOs, but the primary audience of most MMOs is still the 18-34 year old male. And they enjoy breast imagery. And the entire purpose is simply to get the 18-34 year old male to stop, and pick up the magazine/box to get a closer look at the features/game/ad.
The earth rests on the back of a giant turtle,
and the turtle lives between two large perfect breasts,
some blond hair hanging down with maybe a river of beer somewhere, and ....
[ahem] yep. bewbs! Gotta love em!! They influence all of my purchases: from cars to underarm deodorant to chewing gum to butter to of course... MMOs. The interesting part is not so much that it's done with games, (of course it will be used in games... which is sort of an interactive movie... and look what movies do?!). It's when boobs are used to sell really off the wall things that it really stands out. Watching advertisers figure out how to use sex to sell aspirin or car oil or whatever... If there is any way possible to use sex to sell x, it will be done. We really are just chimps (97% dna equivalence) with an extra layer of neurons on the brain...
Sanya, the video games are mostly for men not for women. They are made for men and the reason for this are not women's titties ... it's psychology. And please, don't tell me that characters magical boobies will increase propfits ... we do not play games because of the boobies, we are playing for fun, to compete with other people, to enjoy the unrealistc worlds and graphics!
Maybe I'm one of the two men who recoil at such images, and have to read the box and read reviews before i buy an mmo. I feel so insulted that marketers think they have to stoop to those levels.
It immediately tells me "this game sucks sooooooo bad we have to put tits on the box to get idiots, and only idiots will be playing this."
I don't like porn art in games. I don't make women characters. I'm not a woman. I have no desire to be a woman. And it's unrealistic to me that they would put a female in a totally non-female genre i.e. medieval setting where women were second class citizens, or medieval setting where females wouldn't even be able to put on the armor, let alone pick up the weapons.
I even recoiled at White Wolf's use of using the female pronoun in ALL of their literature. I mean "make sure she spends a blood point before she activates the power". I was so annoyed. Clearly 90% of the buyers of the product are men, yet they continually used female pronouns. It's as if they weren't even talking to me.
Her article was great and recognized the true companies who didn't need to stoop to booby marketing. They knew they had a solid product and the artwork showed.
I just don't get booby marketing. Wouldn't it be 10 times better to show a really powerful "epic" male figure that the viewer would envy, than some weak women with her breasts hanging out? I would venture to say the booby marketing backfires in an MMO, because as soon as the player sees no continuous boobage, they stop paying monthly fees. However, had the player come in thinking they would ultimately be some epic beast of a man, they would stay there to kingdom come, trying.
I bet booby marketing and the tremendous amounts of failures in the MMO industry are directly equal. Boobies = your game sucks and you are fail.
Funnily enough the Star Trek Online PC Gamer covers were censored on the STO website... And then removed entirely except for the ship cover! http://www.startrekonline.com/node/350
There were four covers, the one of the ship, and three of various hot alien women (a Klingon, a Vulcan, and Andorian IIRC.)
Now, if any franchise can be said to have almost as many female fans as male fans, it has to be Star Trek. So why are they marketing this game toward 13 year old boys? Personally, I think it's sexist and disgusting.
Wow,
Some folks are pretty sensative about using female anatomy. One poster here seems to be ...lets see... what would be the best way to describe? Heterophobic? Believe it or not, boys and girls can play together and often do. In my limited experiance, I have met both sexes during play and have had equal fun. Boys, their not aliens coming to steal your dogs.
Keep in mind marketing is targeting an average demographic and not a specific one. Some hetero girls hate the sexist art. Some hetero girls love the female form and don't care one way or the other how its used as long as its appealing, just like guys.
I love this thread. I'm not sure why the author of this article is debating with the men and women here. One reason why I don't like articales like this is because there is no involvment in your opinion. It's point blank stated and known that sex sells past games and goes way back. Women may talk junk about that, yet their magazines are filled with sexy women and weight loss tips, how to get a better orgasm, anti-aging creams, how to find a man, big buff guys in their underwear....oh wait. DAMN, I been playing male hero characters for years and all of them were mainly buff studs and Duke Nukem, come on, that's like the ladies man right there.
This is why I think there is no reason to make an article like this. It's stating the obvious and your obviously going to get flamed for it. Gaming attracts boys and girls. My friend would love to get nailed by a real life Chris Redfield and she loves buff studs in gaming. I like sexy women in gaming. This whole world is about appeal.
Yay Boobs! (and guns) id buy it
As a female gamer, I like the non-blatant female characters on the boxes because I think....."ooh pretty, I could make my character look like that" but when it flashes excessive cleavage, I do think the game is not for me. Interesting read Sanya, really enjoyed it!
Funny, I never noticed those Evony ads and now I am staring at one as I type this message, and those would be one of the times I would say the game is not for me, yikes! :)
of course it works, we all want to be with our dearest futuristic, magic user and common sense Female that understand our imaginary world & feelings of our dreams, we dont like real females, OF COURSE NO DOUBT.
That's why. If RL women were like that this world would be a better place, OF COURSE IT WOULD.
/end of sarcasm.
A study by Nielsen Entertainment in 2006 shows that 56% of 117 million American gamers play online games and that a staggering 64% of them are women.
Most women I game with don't mind seeing some major boobage. Sexy women sell, no matter what your gender and if a box cover offends you; then maybe you should consider getting some help with your insecurities.
An example of, I pull stats out my ass.
Well, this is my first post although I've been a member for a few years now and lurk. But I thought this was worth posting since I love reading Sanya's articles (ever since she was working for Mythic).
As for the boob thing, despite being mid-20's and male, the advertisements have no effect on me because I am gay. I don't mind it though, and (thus far) I play games based solely on their PvP merit. What's interesting though is that in the few ads I've seen with shirtless male warriors and whatnot, I am equally unattracted. I think it's because the MMO type of man isn't really attractive to me. I dunno. But if they made a really hot character and put him in an MMO, I am guessing I would probably at least check it out. :P
Just a Short reply. I, as a male would have no problem if my avatar could look better/(hotter for the ladies). My problem with MMO ads are truth in advertising, not once in any MMO that I have played have I seen an avatar that looked like the box images.
What would it hurt to have better looking Characters?
There were just too many replies to read all, I am just going to add my 2 cents. If it was previously posted I apologize.
While I agree with the article, I must disagree with the idea that one of the reasons women don't pick up the games and play is because of the image of the scantly clad lady on the cover. I mean, have you ever seen every cosmopolitan? Or hell the entire magazine rack in a check out line? All of them marketing to women. I know of no men that buy (but know of a few who have been known to look twice including yours truly).
And on another note, thanks for ruining my perception of Angelina Jolie in Tomb Raider. Falsies? My fantasies have been shattered.
http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/103974/
the impact of tatas
The article was an interesting read... no doubt and at the same time it was obvious, but to an extent that many people who read it haven't really bothered to reply.
One thing I really wish, was if MMO boxes were sold in my country and I don't have to google up the box art :( *sigh*
Sex sells and well women are always going to be eye candy and just today at the train station i realised everybody, men and women of all ages, were checking out this scantily clad hot young thing walk by. Quite a coincidence of reading this article about breasts and watching it in reality.
LOL I think i've gone a bit off topic, anyways kudos to Sanya
RE: So please, understand that while not all men will buy a game just because there are breasts on the cover, the fact is that enough men do make their purchasing decisions in just that way.
Ken: Hrm, this game looks good. Artwork is a 38DD!
Friend: Dude, she's just pixels.
Ken: Yeah, and damn nice onces too!
ohhhhhh,
lets not forget that well over 78% of female toons are actually guys lol, you know, because they want something good to look at while they are grinding xp lol
Quoted for truth.
Most of the women's magazines I see while waiting in the check-out line are graced with sexy, often scantily clad, women. Sometimes they are accompanied by a man. Magazines about women's fitness and health are no exceptions.
Men's magazines, which one can usually finds in the out-of-the-way magazine rack, have a variety of covers. Many are decorated with guns or cars. Some are blessed with eye-catching cleavage. Others sport shirtless men.
The only beefcake marketing I regulary see is on the covers of "Romance Novels". But these hairless studs are typically accompanied by cheesecake, in some state of passionate undress.
Catching a man's eye is, quite simply, a geometry problem: curves and lines. Women's eyes are a bit more complicated: eyes, smiles, hair, no hair, codpiece, glutes, big muscles, slender, macho, effeminate, shirtless, tux, hyped or plain. It's no wonder that gaming companies go for the easy cue of cleavage marketing. It may even catch a few women's eyes as well.
Just for giggles I looked up a issue of Cosmopolitan Magazine. Here are the headlines...
-------------------------
BAD GIRL SEX
THE SEXY ASS WORKOUT
ONE QUESTION NO GUY CAN RESIST
SEX PANIC
THE 26 BEST BEAUTY PRODUCTS
WHAT 81% OF MEN EXPECT ON THE FIRST DATE
HOW SHE OUTSMARTED A BRUTAL RAPIST
--------------------------
With a picture of Megan Fox and her tits popping out of a small dress on the cover page.
So just from a basic observation... guys are interested in breasts, and women are interested in sex.
Go look at a magazine rack, right now... and tell me that the majority of magazines for women aren't focused on sex. The rest that aren't talking about sex like a BradyGames Strategy guide, are telling women what they should look like, and how to do it... usually to attract men.
Sex sells for BOTH genders, dear... guys like eye candy, women want updated tactical manuals on how to please guys.
Well boobs sell games
Actually a much more well thought and documented post than the OP ;)
Fantasy consumers have been confronted with boobs long before the MMO genre, with Frank Frazetta being the most well known and prolific.
You can back even further than the 60s to find boobs in fantasy marketing. Hell, there's always been a decent amount of cleavage on the covers of women's romance novels as well.