Richard Aihoshi's Free Zone: F2P or Not F2P
When a game has both micro-transactions and an optional subscription fee, is it still considered free to play? Richard asks that very question this week.
Last week, I finished up by speculating that it might be interesting to see item sales and subscription in the same game. This isn't a concept that has just been brought up for the first time. I can recall seeing it in the graphical MUD area around 15 years ago, and it almost certainly wasn't new then.
Will we actually see both options offered in a single title? If forced to hazard a guess, I'd venture to say we will. At first glance, this may seem like trying to mix oil and water. However, there is certainly a trend toward more diverse revenue models. This is natural and thus to be expected as an industry expands. In fact, it's a way of promoting growth; it helps to reach new consumers by providing alternatives that better fit their preferences. In a way, it's kind of like marketing changes we see all the time in other areas, such as adding a new package size, another color or a different combination of burger toppings.
We're already part of the way there. For instance, Wizard101 has two basic payment choices. One is monthly subscription, although in a still relatively unusual form that includes discounted rates for multiple accounts in a family, and also for six- and 12-month terms. The other is area-based. I haven't played the game for at least a few months now, but during the post-launch period, free players could only enter selected zones. This is still the case, with the option of buying access to the others one at a time using virtual currency; according to KingsIsle's website, the cost in real money ranges from $1 to $3.
As I mentioned last time, the D&D Online won't use the standard free to play revenue model with a cash shop offering cosmetic and vanity items, temporary experience and stat boosters, etc. Turbine has stated that in addition to gear and consumables, it will also sell the ability to unlock premium content such as certain races and classes, and additional character slots. Since the game design is based on adventure modules, the question naturally arises as to whether they'll be made available without charge.
One notable twist is that it will be possible to obtain points to spend in the store through regular play. Naturally, I wonder how easy or difficult this will be. There's undoubtedly no answer that will satisfy everyone. No matter whether it's relatively undemanding or requires a lot of grinding, the moaners and groaners will be in their element since they'll have another thing to complain about.
In any case, approaches such as these lead me to ask if the perceived dichotomy with F2P on one side and subscription on the other will start to erode more rapidly. It's clearly not an either/or situation now anyway, but it's often just easier to ignore full reality in favor of simplification. And what could be more straightforward than limiting oneself to two possibilities. So what if a lot of things in the world are gray rather than black or white?
One problem with that is establishing where to draw the dividing line. Is Wizard101 free to play? I tend to think not since a considerable potion of the content is only accessible to those who opt to pay for it. At the same time, it isn't purely subscription either. Since I'm not immune to categorizing things for the sake of simplicity, I frequently put it in a third group, free to try.
D&D isn't as easy to classify; an obvious key reason for this is that complete details as to accessibility have yet to be revealed. At the moment, it appears there will more quite a bit more than in Wizard101. However, it doesn't fit the "standard" F2P model, which wouldn't require an outlay to play the Warforged race, the Monk class et al.
As we continue to see more variations on business models - and I have no doubt whatsoever that we will - maybe it will help me to generalize less, or at least not to over-simplify for the sake of convenience. Ultimately, it's the games themselves that matter. Whether they're subscription, free to play or something else, the ones that find audience segments whose gaming preferences they fulfill are more likely to survive and succeed.
In the end, the fun factor is what's truly important. As the MMO market has broadens, people have entered it who derive their enjoyment somewhat differently, although not completely so; after all, we're still talking about games with similarities. This influx is a good thing for the industry overall. It's also inevitable. If F2P, F2T and other non-subscription business models help drive more rapid growth - and I think they do - I welcome them.
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He is the former Editor of RPG Vault and his column, focusing on free to play MMOs, appears on MMORPG.com every Monday.
I'd like it if he actually made clear what the hell he's trying to discuss. I presume it's something to do with whether or not a game is free to play, but it's HARD to tell.
On principle, however, I disagree.
How many F2P articles does he need to write ?
He's talking about the trend in MMO games to become more ambiguous in wether they are subscription or "free" to play based. Quite frankly, I think we'll see more and more companies trying out variations that include both business models in some sense or other. The reason is quite simple: they want to make money.
A subscription-based game is an 'either-or' model. A potention customer will either subscribe or they will not. A company will not see profits from those that don't. By including elements of F2P within a game that also has subscriptions, the company increases the possible revenue streams.
In other words, by appealing to as many potential payers as possible, they're more likely to make a profit.
With the new DDO model, subscribers not only have access to all modules and play content, they get points they can use in the cash shop (I last read it was about 500 points a month). Non-subscribers can either fork out cash for those points (convenience) or earn reputation (granted from doing quests) which in turn gives them so many points they can use in the cash shop.
Another model is Requiem, in which subscribers earned XP bonuses and a flat rate discount at the cash shop (and I think they also got an allowance for the cash shop, don't quite remember).
In any case, the mixture of the MMO business models is the same sort of thing seen in any other industry: the attempt to increase revenue by adapting.
-w
What's the point of playing a mmo if at the end, you can buy stuff otherwise you'll have to work for it ? There is no achievement feeling in paying RL money for an ingame item. However working hard to get that special item that very few peoples have, now that's something.
How much money you can spend in a virtual game should not affect how powerful/succesful you are in that game. For me RMT games are for the lazy.
i would gladly pay more for in game items on games i am already paying a monthly sub for, i have bought 30 bucks worth of booster packs for CoX, gladly 10 dollars a pop for an entire costume set, i dint mind it, great game, but the isue with most people i think, is the general quality of f2p games,hell some of the p2p games arnt doing so well,..LoTR,..i dont care what any of you say, a game that is doing well doesnt have 10 dollar subs,and that game looks great and plays well,theres just a combination of ingrediants that i dont completly understand taht makes a game successfull, and its not just getting over the f2p tag, naturally your going to pay less money to ake a f2p game, and then try to make money on item malls , mulyiple sub types, f2p zones, whatever, a low budget game is like a low busget movie,..you get what you pay for , oh i am going on again, basicly i am saying ,..you cant polish a turd,..and no one wants to pay for a polished turd,..no matter how you package it, eventually everyone gonna figure out its a polished turd. THE END
I might be able to understand a system where if you subscribe, you get access to all content but if you play for free you have to pay for additional content.
Like a new zone opens and is included for subsciption customers, but free players would have to pay a one time fee to get access to the new zone.
I stick to games that are p2p and avoid all games that have any type of micro-transaction of any kind.
I have no problem with a game that has a f2p area with a small level cap and a small area to run around in as opposed to a free trial since it is basically the same thing.
I also truly hate the concept of paying for things that improve your character over another, so xp potions, extra damage etc etc. If I was going to venture into a game that had some micro transactions I would only do it if the items were purely cosmetic.
It seems to me that in so many more years I won't be a part of any of the MMOs since they seem to so badly all want to go to micro-transactions, at that point I'll go back to my roots and pay FPS and RTS games that are one off games with no subs/transactions etc.
It is really bad to see companies that only offer a subscription but then start trying to add in as many other transactions as they can, look at how big games are releasing now. 1 million in sales at 50-60 a pop, let's say after all the different distribution deals etc that the company gets half of that, there's a good 25 million in the first couple months. Now by the second month most of these games still have half of that pay a sub so another 7.5 million. And then of course the 250,000 average they might hold up over the year so another 41.25 mil for a nice total of 73.75 mil. Now let's say the company did half that success the first year for only ~36 mil. That company is still doing well and either paid off it's investment or come close in that first year, and all it's workers can afford to be paid a good salary. Why do they need to top it off with extra nickle and dime models like a pay for name change pay for server move, pay for new clothing etc.
What I might consider playing if a game that was entirely free to play no hidden strings. And people were allowed to in game trade the items they've purchased for in game loot with other players. This allows people who don't care about real money to buy plenty from the store and trade it off to players in game who are too cheap to buy things (like me) for in game items they spend their time getting. As sad of an example as it is I could show Puzzle Pirates as an example of that. You have to use currency bought with real money to unlock different games for a month's time, however people can trade these bought monies for in game money to other players. Meaning if you put in the time you can keep playing all the puzzles for no real world money.
If i was in charge of a mmo id make both f2p and p2p, then if either lost money id can it. They would of course be totally seperate games, and this way you dont get free trial people in the p2p game.
t's also inevitable. If F2P, F2T and other non-subscription business models help drive more rapid growth - and I think they do - I welcome them
The question in this is, does it suport quantity or quality. Sofar I only seen Quantity and well..no quality, this is subject to personal flavor ofcource.
A p2p whit a form of micro transactions will get a large amound of "game ballance" centrert around the microshop.
Even if its just flavor items it will unballance the game of those whit the money will get more game then those whitout the money.
swg is a neat exsample of a p2p game were they keep trying to push the cardgame (ingame items ) onto the the general swg mmo population.
Maybe if you pay by the hour( ala asian customers style) a cashshop would work.
But only if its ballanced. you can get the items in the shop or spent a few more hour playing the game getting the item ingame.
but even this will give those whit enoug money in there hands a clear advantage.
I'm confused you say a P2P game that costs $10 is a sign it isn't good then you use LoTRO as a example. Now i have been in LoTRO since beta and they never charged less then the insdustry standard fo 12-14 bucks.
Oh wait I see, your confusing a limited time promotion price to the standard price.
Gotca now.
I agree, and say yet again - RMT will end my playing MMO's since I would rather play single player then participate in what I believe is truly Corporate greed.
No Richard, we are not going to try your cr*ppy f2p MMOs!!
just stop writting pointless articles
Question: When a game has both micro-transactions and an optional subscription fee, is it still considered free to play?
Answer: No. (So stop being a cheapskate and just pay for a sub to a decent game
)
Hope that helps
Well I believe DDO will fit in the mold of what he is talking about. So no ifs about it, there will be one of these in the near future.
Mixing F2P with P2P make something even more disgusting for the "average" gamer. My concept of "average" gamer is someone that pays for content only (retail prices, expansion packs, monthly fees, now if they just went and added hourly plans...).
Why is it disgusting? You will be facing a real, constant cost AND an item mall. You see a game together with all ways of taking money out of you, but that does not mean you will see a game with double quality, double content, double support. Nope. It's truly disgusting the twist that free-to-play games do, there will be those paying for free that serve as food for those that are paying much higher than $15/month to become all-powerful. The "average" gamer doesn't want endless money sinks on his games and doesn't want to be weaker than somebody else because his opponent's credit card has a larger limit than his.
The concept of Wizard101 of selling areas or offering a premium subscription that lets you play everything should be enough of a revenue for the game, although it might be true that it allows for an item mall that evolves in a slower pace - you will have your true vanity items and that might be only it, until they want to make more money and add up the temporary items that give you a boost (which will stack with your-already-existing premium subscription for a cost much higher than $15/month) and then they add the killer - the endless money sinks that are the item mall upgrade materials.
We have yet to see how much will be the cost in DDO Unlimited to play competitively.
Ya because not wanting to pay 180 a year and being locked into one game, makes you a cheapskate. Even if you do pay for the game doesnt mean all your friends want to pay for it too.
No Richard, we are not going to try your cr*ppy f2p MMOs!!
This.
I dont get how people can say this is the wave of the future when there are no indications of that at all. Whenever this topic comes up, the response from most people ranges from polite disinterest to rabid hatred.
F2P is not a sustainable model. The money has to come from somewhere. And it is usually an item mall. And it should be pretty clear by now that MMO players hate item malls.
Ya because not wanting to pay 180 a year and being locked into one game, makes you a cheapskate.
You arent locked into anything. You could quit after one month if you wanted to.
Ya because not wanting to pay 180 a year and being locked into one game, makes you a cheapskate. Even if you do pay for the game doesnt mean all your friends want to pay for it too.
And that's when hour plans similar to China Aion would be "for the win". Purchase hours that you can spend whenever you want (please note that this does not exclude the monthly plans for those that don't want a hour limitation and know they will only be playing that MMO). This completely unbinds you to a specific game and that is what happens with monthly fees, although you can still, you know, not resub in the next month but resub anytime you want.
This free to play idea that is simply idiot in the eyes of those that understand the fact that developers want your money, and it is much better when they are bound to monthly fees or hour plans and not on auto-generated items that really don't take much work to do (yet they may cost you dozens of dollars), fair for everyone and the developers will need to work on real content (and fun) if they want you to keep playing.
And no, purchasing the upgrade materials in an item mall to make the +99 sword of pwnage and go one-hitting things is not my concept of fun that is based on content aka things to do in the game that are fun and immersive.
They can say it because they have some stake(even if it is just being a prophet of the times) for it becoming true. They will continue to say it without consulting the true feelings of gamers in an effort to convince some that it is true and to make it become a self-fulfilling prophecy. The gaming corporations will allow it to be said because if these rabble-rousers can convince people that it really is the true future of MMO's then they will make even more money.
Do not ask how they can say it - ask how much they are being PAID to say it.
I wish MMORPG would allow users to block certain content. The crap this guy spews would be the first on my list. I swear if ever F2P takes hold as the norm in the gaming industry, this guy will pull an Al Gore and claim he invented it.
I agree with this post. I would never play a game that has a subscription model plus and item shop.
The filter is pretty simple... If you don't like it, don't click it ;)
LoL yeah.
There no way in hell I would play a P2P and F2P mix. I play both P2P and F2P game but not a mix of both ! 1. P2P vary good model 1 price of 15$ for full game 2. F2P full game for free but able to buy items from cash shop AND THEY SHOULD ONLY be items that do not make the player more powerful then the free player.
I'd also never consider playing a P2P and F2P mix.
And i have yet to find a F2P game that was worth playing, period.
Just my opinion, of course........;
Unlike the many before this, those who have never played a f2p or played a shitty f2p.
Maplestory has made more revenue over it's lifetime being f2p with an item mall than the likes of some of the p2p. F2P is a stronger model and yes will take over the MMO gaming world. get used to it. I rather pay for what i want than be charged 20 bucks a month for a bunch of crap i don't enjoy. Those who are leaving once MMOs go RMT. good riddence to bad rubbish.
For those who say item malls are a unbalanced haven't played balanced f2p games. The problem is f2p games are usally korean and are grinds. P2P have quality to them while the f2p don't. Once the rest of the world starts using this model quality will not be an options. There is even talks about Star Wars: TOR might be Micro-transaction, you know how peopel are siked for that game? The questions isn't when it's going to happen it's when will the stigma be worn out.
One of the MMO's I had watched was a samurai one or something and they had a really interested payment plant/f2p scheme.
You can try the game all you want and venture all the content for free with one exception, as a free to play member you are just some random peddler/pedestrian from the world who cannot weild a sword but can still chat, and venture around with other players.
Once you see whether you like from what you experience in the world from watching other people/getting to know the world, you can start the payment plan and then you are granted access to learn bushido and pick up a sword to fight. The free side of the game would have a few quests that you could do as a simpleton which would progress you in the direction to get permission from the person or whoever which gives you your sword once you opt to pay.
I liked the idea because even as a free palyer with the restrictions, you could still do things like gather, craft, trade, talk, maybe fist combat lol? And overall be part of the world, and when you are ready to pay, the path is very straight forward in how to become a paying member. Basically a solid black and white living in unison without becoming gray.
Ya because not wanting to pay 180 a year and being locked into one game, makes you a cheapskate. Even if you do pay for the game doesnt mean all your friends want to pay for it too.
My message was an obviously failed attempt at a humorous dig at Richard, hence the sticky out tongue smiley. This chap is just posting multiple articles telling everyone how great F2P is and how it will rule the MMO world. I've got nothing against people who enjoy F2P games, I get that some people can't afford to sub to a game and F2P might be their only choice, or maybe they just don't want to feel tied to a subscription, hey it's different strokes for different folks and all that. I'm just getting a bit sick of hearing how F2P, T2P, Microtransactions is the way forward. I'm not saying it doesn't have a place, just that it is not the only solution. A subscription based plan still has plenty of scope for working perfectly fine in MMO's imho.
However you raise an interesting point about friends being 'locked out', surely this can happen in the F2P, T2P games as well, what if you have access to bits of the gameworld that your friend doesn't because they can't afford it, what if you can afford all those lovely double XP potions and your friend can't and before you know it your 20 levels higher and unable to group.
My own opinion, and thats all it is, is that F2P just does not fit the western style of MMO gaming, I feel this is why we've had a glut of Asian MMO's trying to make it over in the west, it's because they know that that kind of playstyle suites F2P, Microtransactions etc. But it doesn't work that well with the quite different western MMO dynamic
What was the point of this article? Honestly, I read this website to be informed on MMO's. This guy, however, is still saying "Oh my God, there are free MMO's?"
Who ever said this man was qualified to write these articles? String together a few pieces of info from the FAQ of two F2P games is not enough to justify your position as a writer. There are certainly better writers on this site them him. A lot of the members, for certain. Dana's articles always make me think.
The next article he'll have will be called "MMORPG's: They're Like RPG's, but Multiplayer"
A lot of people may be aware of the fact that Sony uses this model for their games now; Everquest, Everquest 2, etc. Not only is the item shop items being shoved in people's face in Everquest there are also the buying of card games and obtaining items in game. Sony is the lowest of the low in the industry. They will attempt to milk their playerbase more than any other company. It would be wise for people to show they do not like this type of greed by not playing Sony Online games.
I myself will never play their games because of their greedy nature. There are too many more MMOs that are made better and they give you more for your money without shoving item shops and other money grabs in your face. They still charge the 15/month for their old worn out games as well. Vote no with your wallets so this doesn't continue to spread like a disease.
F2P is such misinformed term. Misinformed because people hear that word "free" and just assume that it is going to also be good and free. Unfortunately, neither is the case. Anyone every hear of the terms "no such thing as a free lunch" or "you get what you pay for". Both terms apply to MMO's as much as they do to anything else. The company making an MMO "f2p" has to get it's money from somewhere. If it doesn't get it from subs and it doesn't get it from micros then what do you things gets pulled out (or rather never put in)......content and probably quality. Those companies just budget what they CAN afford so they do make money. So, F2P is always going to cost SOMETHING and it will always be at the expense of the players!
Stigma? This is about consumers (the ones that play the games and pay their bills) defending their interest of paying for quality and content instead of something that is purely virtual, automatically generated and an endless sink of real money (what do IRL malls do? provide you as many ways for you to spend money on as they can, and keep improving, changing with that objective ). Give up on this and you'll see games with increasing costs per month for competitivity. Because if consumers don't do that, you'll see the developers all going that way, it gives them more money why wouldn't they do it? Maybe because games have always been about providing fun as a service, hence before this F2P marketing lie all games have been about purchasing a box and in the case of MMOs paying a monthly fee (you know, server costs and paying developers)
Item malls sticking to vanity items is pure BS. They are the main and sometimes only form of revenue, so developing will be around making the item mall attractive.
True gamers pay for their games, not for their items. You play to have fun and consequently you grow stronger in the game and acquire items. Money rips this balance apart, especially since games take more and more a route with RPG permanent elements, heck, even FPS and sport games have it now, makes us think in the past when FPS were games like CS - join the server, go pewpew, done. There were no achievements, no levels, nothing persists after that round is over.
This "stigma" wearing off will mean the death of the MMO genre as a kind of game, instead you will be playing virtual shopping malls that let you kill avatars of other people, the more you spend the better will be to do that.
LoTRO offered a $9.99 subscription as an anniversary promotion, AND you had to buty at least 3 months. Also, that promotion ends at the end of June and price will go back to $14.99. So please don't make assumptions with incomplete info.
I was so moved by this thread that instead of bombarding you with a zomungous wall of text I wrote a blog in response, tell me what you think.
fanboy rant, not usable as evidence of the "good" of RMT. Good riddance to you.
Outside of WoW, F2P titles generate the most revenue in the MMO industry.
I also play CoH/V and have paid a monthly fee, plus bought the bonus packs at $10 a pop. I haven't done any server transfers or bought extra character slots, but these can be bought too.
P2P snobbery really has to stop. F2P offers a much cheaper entry into the MMO market - pay for the box, then pay $15 a month vs download it for free and only pay if you like it. Arguably F2P has to do more to keep players interested - if they can't, they lose out immediately, whereas P2P titles can coast on sub revenue while promising more features "soon".
Quality isn't a valid argument either. Last year's major P2P launches were AoC and WAR - hardly polished affairs.
F2P, or at least increased micro-trans options, are the way things are going because MMOs cost multimillion dollar budgets to develop and operate, which your $15 a month only goes a tiny, tiny way to covering while the number of titles is increasing. Letting players who want to pay more than $15 a month for in-game benefit makes sense. There are lines that are probably best not to cross - buying an 'I Win' button, for instance - but please don't confuse corporate greed with being able to afford to keep the lights on.
When i saw that topic on the mainpage, i was about to ask how many more F2P articles this fellow is going to write. Clicking on the comments i see you guys alrweady beat me on that.
It seem like he is on some sort of mission to cleance the western gamingpopulation from the p2p scourge.
Thanks, but i still prefer a solid orc for 12,99 a month over Mutsishaji the orphan robo-kungfu-vampire with the 10ft sword and cosmic brain powers from the item shop.
I guess your target audience is that way:
RMT for some items in a MMO actually battles gold farmers and rampant inflation on the AH's.
If you buy cool clothes, houses, mounts and other things that usually cost a LOT of in-game money for real money instead then people wont be that desperate to generate a large amount of in-game cash.
Then you can go into a serious campaign of undercutting prices massively and by doing that press prices down (since there wont be a need for the huge cash elements anymore). And the more you press prices down, the more the in-game money you already have is worth and so by dumping prices you become wealthier and the gold farmers will lose their business since everyone can get enough in-game money to buy things they need.
It just that some intelligent RMTs and some dedicated players to kill the gold farming business.
There is nothing intelligent about RMT in P2P games other than the intelligence of the developer to suck more money from their player base. Players like me will jump ship quickly when this garbage is added though to a game I am paying monthly for. There are better ways to handle gold sellers than join them. The can't beat them, join them attitude doesn't work.
I could name a few ways off the top of my head to help against gold farming. I personally would like to see in game commerce taken out of the hands of the players. Everything should be bought and sold to NPCs. That right there would remove the issue. Everything could be bind on pick up or only tradeable between characters on the same account, never an other account. There are ways to combat gold farming and I would rather remove the player economy before RMT "fixes" the issue for us.
F2P Fast Food
You have to applaud Richard, he keeps writing these articles even when we keep burning them to toast. Oh he is paid for them, a salve to his charred fingers. :)
It is so fortunate that in Richards world something that is ‘inevitable’ is also ‘good’ for our hobby. Yes our hobby, our pursuit, our pastime, for which F2P is not inevitable nor good.
This bit of faulty logic about the beneficial effects of RMT revenue models particularly stuck out:
“In fact, it's a way of promoting growth; it helps to reach new consumers by providing alternatives that better fit their preferences. In a way, it's kind of like marketing changes we see all the time in other areas, such as adding a new package size, another color or a different combination of burger toppings.”
No its not Richard, you are confusing product with revenue. Gamers are not getting a choice ‘that fits their preferences’ in your version of a MMO which I will call ‘Burger Online’. We all have to play the same game, even with RMT’s. A few extra RMT outfits will not change the game to fit someone’s preferences but RMT’s that distort game balance will leave a bad taste in the mouth for the rest of us playing Burger Online. All gamers will get is a choice of which revenue model they dip into, nothing more.
It is perhaps revealing that you choose to think of MMO’s as burgers in which the most important element is ‘fun’. A good MMO is a three course meal, not F2P Fast Food. The dessert is fun but the main meal is teamwork, community and being part of a story.
OP can post this kind of articles everyday. That won't change my mind. I don't want to be forced to spend all my money and live in parents basement only to be competitive with players that do it. The day when last mmorpg with monthly subscription will close is the day I will stop playing mmorpgs. You can say anything you want but 'west' have more common sense than 'east'.
I'm confused. The article asks "if" and "when" we will see games with both a subscription fee and microtransactions. What about EQ2? Surely there are others? Also: just because some (or at least one) exist already doesn't make it a good idea. Quite the opposite.
The more, the better. They're great
.
Oh, and DDO isn't a fast food game. If you think F2P can change such game to being a fastfood, be prepared for trouble once you take this approach while playing. DDO was always a game demanding some maturity, quests, traps and this whole system isn't your Free Realms nor Warrior Epic. Nor WoW.
Is this article about paying the $5 / mo subscription to FreeRealms to open up all of the classes only to find that you still have to buy virtual your pet with real money? If so then I totally agree with your outrage.
I'd like to see an article that delves into the unknown area of making a MMO that has both PvE and PvP. Can it be done and if so will players one day reject the killing of innocent NPCs due to the lifelikiness of players? There is a grey line that makes me think some people should avoid crossing, but each the own is.
Ya because not wanting to pay 180 a year and being locked into one game, makes you a cheapskate. Even if you do pay for the game doesnt mean all your friends want to pay for it too.
NEWS FLASH: The average cash shop player spends MORE than $300/year.
Google your information next time before degrading your "mortal standpoint" even further in a community (Real MMO players) that despise the sub-par gameplay F2P induces.
Seriously, I'm starting to believe Richard is getting paid commission per article he writes trying to "Hype" the crappy F2P market. Getting the "word" out won't make us all mindless zombies and play crappy F2P games.
Richard makes some great points here. There are definitely big shifts occuring with the payment/revenue models of online, traditionally subscription based games. I for one, think these changes are an extremely good thing. It means the MMO industry is exploring its flexibility and price elasticity. There are plenty of games, Like EVE Online for example, which I do not think merit $15 a month every month. Sometimes,, I just want to set a timed training that takes many days and I won't be playing. What an excellent candidate for a non-subscription, single microtransaction that is reduced from the full subscription cost. EVE Online is a good example of what I would say is artificially inelastic for no good reason.
Thanks for this look into things, Richard! Keep it up :)
The basic issue I have with all these pricing/revenue models is that they just seem to try to 'trick' me into paying more then I want to. As a consumer I want to know what I pay for and what I can expect if I can keep playing.
With a P2P there is a set monthly fee and the decision for me is whether the content I am playing through each month is worth that fee.
With all these F2P models it becomes harder to figure out what exactly I am paying for. Some of them are straightforward and say you 'pay this much and ou get this'. Those I respect. Others are getting too convoluted and seem like a lot of bait-and-switch where I never know if what I come it to buy is actually what I am gonna get.
This is nothing but greed plain and simple. I refuse to play any game that supports both subscription and RMT at the same time. I prefere to stick with B2P then P2P MMO's because I pay a flat fee every month and have access to everything in that game I don't have to spend an extra $20 or more except for expansion releases. Seriously what are MMO's coming to these days? These companys want to be greedy but they will end up seeing that their greed will destroy the MMO as they scam their players.
So if this is the start of what I have to look forward to for future MMO's then I will just throw my PC out and stick with my console games. To even have an edge in a F2P MMO you must use the cashshop and the way these companys work most of thier cashshops you only keep the item for a set amount of time in which case you end up spending money over and over and it adds up over time.
Like I said I will stick with B2P then P2P till they decide to screw those up also by adding RMT crap. Right now I don't see me playing MMO's in 5 years at the rate this industry is going.
I think we are a little hard on Richard here. I may not agree with the guy, but I don't think he's a plant for the asian grinders or anything like that.
The industry is changing, and Richard is only discussing the changes, as we are here. Personally, I think the changes in the industry are for the worse, because the focus from the MMO publishers is so different today than what it once was.
I remember when MMOs first went mainstream back in the early '90s with UO. The game wasn't designed to extract money from the players. It was designed to be a great game, and sold on the shelves alongside other games. To tell you the truth, if those guys at Origin had it their way, they wouldn't charge the monthly at all, because the monthly kept the game out of many hands (my own included).
The monthly wasn't about making uber-cash back then. The monthly was about paying the bills. And I remember the whole way they tried to sell the monthly to us in the FAQs of that time. Specifically, the monthly would be used to make the game better. The way they made money was through the boxes, not the monthly. And as a result, we got a lot of nice staff to solve CS issues, run live events, and create content during that era. We paid more, but we also got more.
Somewhere along the line, the publishers stopped thinking about the monthly as a way to pay the bills, and started to think about the monthly as the thing they sold. The monthly was no longer justified to players as a thing that made the game better, but more like a player's "membership dues." Anything extra was an extra charge, most commonly in the form of expansion packs you'd get off the shelf. We pay a lot more now, but we get so much less today. Staff has been cut, development is funneled into $30 and $15 expansion packs, and the games are no longer a synergy between developers and players like it once was. The only thing a box buys us these days is an opportunity to buy a sub. And the only thing a sub buys us is server access.
Buying into a subscription-based MMO today makes a whole lot less sense today than it did back then...and even then it didn't make much sense. We've gotten used to the idea, but the whole mindset of the publishers today is about giving us the least amount of game possible for the most amount of money possible.
And that's the real thing that stinks about the microtransaction games. It's not about financing a well-designed game, like in the old days. It's about designing a game around a finance model, which means that the game is purposely designed to be a disappointment unless you throw more money into it.
The only reason I picked up SWG in 2003 was that it gave me more game for less money than I would otherwise spend. Since that time, so many other games have stepped up their operations to include all the things that made MMOs such a good value...like frequent content updates and online play over common servers...and get this...all for one single payment of $50 or less that you spend at the counter at your local Best Buy! Compared with that, WoW looks like a scam.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm all about what Richard is trying to say when he wants to take down the "entry costs" to this form of internet entertainment. However, I'm not sure that microtransactions are the way to make this genre appealing. And the reason is this: offering "more game for more money" isn't the thing that made MMOs appealing in the early days. It was the fact that MMOs gave a person "more game for less money" that made MMOs better than online peer-to-peer and single player. But it seems today that this whole concept is better met by the new peer-to-peer and single player games; games that offer a whole lot more game for a much lower cost to the consumer than a similar experience in an MMO.
Honestly, I'm sick of the F2P discussions. I wish there was a way to disable viewing F2P games, add's, and content on this site.
I have tried F2P games and this is how they have all broken down for me:
1) They look and feel cheap or like cheap knock-off's of other titles. I would liken F2P games to 'swapmeet louis (vuitton)'. Sure, nearly every game on the market takes ideas from the games that came before it... but for me, F2P's all seem like generic, gub'ment cheese versions.
2) F2P games = bait and switch, imho. Free to play, pay to win.
3) Grinders. Maybe in other regions of this planet 'group grinding' is cool. For me, however, it's not. No, I'm not looking for instant gratification, but I'm not looking to spend 2-3 hours a night in a region with 3-4 other people killing the same mobs. That's not fun and it's not the type of experience that will keep me playing a game.
Again, I wish MMORPG.COM were able to offer 2 sections... a F2P game section and another for subscription based games. When I want to look over the fence and check out the F2P games, I can. Just sick of having them in my face everytime I come to this site.
More articles about new F2P system in coming DDO:U
www.massively.com/2009/06/30/massivelys-ddo-unlimited-developer-tour/
www.tentonhammer.com/node/69960
www.tentonhammer.com/node/70586
I don’t think Richard is a plant for Asian grinders, but on his own admission he seems to have never played a subscription game. And as certain fact, if he has he did not get past the first few levels as that’s all he ever plays.
He is then far more in touch with the people who make and run MMO’s than he is with the players, hence his reception here. What goes down well at the company water cooler will often get short shrift from the players.
Agreed, most mmos really dont gie you much, i mean look at wow theirs a content what once every 2 years? and it cost you 30 bucks?
But a few got it right.
Look at LoTRO Book 8 is free, the mines of Moria cost and is really only for max level character. Then theres city of heroes.
16 free issues in 5 years: which added inventions (customizing power effects), lots of nerfs, new classes and powers, Mission creation, power customization, weapon customization, PVP zones, and much more all for free. The only Add on? City of Villians whick let you make well Villians, and going Rogur which lets you explore a new zone (pretoria) and switch sides
Any form of micro transaction is just no go.... not ethical ...
The games aren't F2P either because the game constitutes the elements you have to pay for which means you are just playing a taster.
I think a lot of people are being a little naive about the whole F2P cash shop system. I don't blame people for forming a negative opinion of it, because the MMO market is flooded with sub-par titles and asian grindfest MMOs. The flaw isn't in the cash shop system, it's in the games themselves, or the developers of the games.
Does cash shop have anything to do with a completely unimaginative world, recycled gameplay mechanics, and poor polish? I don't necessarily believe that. For instance, Atlantica Online, while it may not be a STELLAR game, still has it's good points and was indeed inventive with the turn-based battle system.
Does cash shop have anything to do with people spending extra money on their MMO? Far from the truth. It's obvious that PLENTY of people each day spend money for WoW gold, EVE ISK, and GW platinum. In fact, from the latest headline about the end of Chinese gold farming, it was a multi-billion yuan a year industry! Plenty of people get online and spend real money on in game currency so they can twink characters, craft the new epic pieces, buy the new cool mount, etc. It's a fact of life, people WANT to spend the money to get the items.
The REAL problems with F2P games is that they are cookie-cutter and unimaginative. I don't know how many F2P games I've tried and thought, "Wow, this again?" or, "Gee, warrior, priest, or mage, Oh My!" I also hate to see the same whack-a-mole style gameplay, but even that is reiterated in P2P games.
Granted, plenty of the F2P games have the unfair advantages of XP potions, no Death Penalty potions, extra damage, etc etc etc. But there are a few F2P games out there that don't have these items. That the cash shop is for cosmetics, access to new zones, etc. And, in the end, this is not so far off from a P2P game. You pay a monthly fee that funds the developers to create that new content for you to visit, and in these F2P titles, you're doing the very same thing, only at your own pace, not at the pace the developer chooses for you.
I think F2P has a ways to come before being a solid investment or worth mentioning next to a P2P title, but the fact is MMOs are migrating in this direction. I hope to see better management of a cash shop, and peope spending money on that cash shop so the developers make the money they need to put out quality games and content. Just not in the fashion that past Asian MMO grinders have portrayed them to be.
I've played a few web-based online games that are F2P but with 'currency' you buy with real cash to get stuff-- all kinds of stuff! I can see how that is cool for the people who buy the coinage and reap the rewards, but a lot of people who play F2P games are playing them because, well, they are Free to Play. If they could pay, they'd play something else. I know it doesn't cost *too* much, but for people with moths flapping out of their wallets, spending a few bucks on game-coinage is sure to cause guilt, as that money could have gone to bills, food, clothes, or some RL entertainment that lasts longer than five minutes. Sure, most of those games offer ways to acquire the 'currency' through somewhat normal gameplay, but in the games I have played, it is very difficult and a very small amount. I don't knock the people who pay-- that is the point! That is what the creators want you to do, and it keeps the game/site running (and perhaps funds further development). So if you can and want to, go for it and have a blast!
I played DDO a couple years ago and I enjoyed it greatly. I only stopped playing because of LOTRO's release. I find it hard to picture it as a F2P game and to buy something like access to the zone of Waterworks, when said zone was always there, but it is their game and if they think they will get more players and money that way, go right ahead! Like I said, I play LOTRO now, so it doesn't affect me.
Anyhow, my rambles are explanatory and my point is this: Subscription AND F2P in one game? I take it you meant you pay monthly and then pay more for extras. I am absolutely horrified at this idea. You are shelling out fifty bucks or more to get the game, then fifteen a month for however long. Are you telling me that you want the company to then charge us additional money to get some cool stuff? So all the richer folk are bedecked and bedazzled from all their bought gear/items/points/whatever, and the normal folk have to suffer with unbalance and crappier things, because you can bet everything will be nerfed so that the truly good items are in the store and everything else is garbage. Isn't it bad enough to deal with that situation in the real world, without having it spill over into the virtual worlds we escape to precisely to forget such troubles for a while?
Subscription + Store = Worst thing that could happen to any game, let alone my precious MMOs. You just leave them alone!
My only thought is that if you are calling it "free to play" then make sure it is truly free to play. No hidden you need to buy x or y in order to go here or do this or that. That is not free. That is restricted play unless you play. Be honest and upfront about in your advertising.
If you're going to be free to play, make sure you have sponsors and advertisers to cover your costs. Don't build in a bunch of hidden crap that you find out after the fact costs you real world dollars to gain acess to.
That's as close to false advertising as I think you can get and I'm surprised no one has sued over it yet (other than the fact that it is games)
The RMT in these games is around in-game money for these vanity mounts/pets, that anyone can also get without spending a single damn extra cent than your subscription fee. These people who spend with RMTs are merely accelerating their growth to reach a point the ones that spend more time efficiently have already reached. The best equipments in these subscription games are bind on pickup or bind on equip. Again, not a single damn extra cent than your subscription fee.
When you add an item mall though, you are adding things that only those that spend money will acquire. That epic mount in WoW? Only those that spend money would get it in the F2P counterpart, they would be exclusive for them, you don't even get the rough option between TIME and MONEY to achieve it. Or sometimes you can commercialize these items in the game, but then you will see holycraphigh costs for these item mall items for in-game money (much higher than in the relative P2P version of this mount). Plus, the enchanting/upgrading of items will be much easier (and sometimes the only way possible to get a high number) with the resources these item mall offer for the players.
The subscription games can and usually are developed around so that RMTs don't bring too much of an advantage. And who said F2P games also don't include illegal RMTs? After all, they don't include selling in-game currency and powerleveling in the item mall, only tools for that.
Again, my only major negative for the P2P genre in the West is because they still do not offer the hour plans for those that don't want to play only one MMO a month, don't want to be bound to a 30-day period service or don't want to feel that MMO is their life. Paying too many subscriptions in the same month will add into a not-so-nice price.
The RMT in these games is around in-game money for these vanity mounts/pets, that anyone can also get without spending a single damn extra cent than your subscription fee. These people who spend with RMTs are merely accelerating their growth to reach a point the ones that spend more time efficiently have already reached. The best equipments in these subscription games are bind on pickup or bind on equip. Again, not a single damn extra cent than your subscription fee.
When you add an item mall though, you are adding things that only those that spend money will acquire. That epic mount in WoW? Only those that spend money would get it in the F2P counterpart, they would be exclusive for them, you don't even get the rough option between TIME and MONEY to achieve it. Or sometimes you can commercialize these items in the game, but then you will see holycraphigh costs for these item mall items for in-game money (much higher than in the relative P2P version of this mount). Plus, the enchanting/upgrading of items will be much easier (and sometimes the only way possible to get a high number) with the resources these item mall offer for the players.
The subscription games can and usually are developed around so that RMTs don't bring too much of an advantage. And who said F2P games also don't include illegal RMTs? After all, they don't include selling in-game currency and powerleveling in the item mall, only tools for that.
Again, my only major negative for the P2P genre in the West is because they still do not offer the hour plans for those that don't want to play only one MMO a month, don't want to be bound to a 30-day period service or don't want to feel that MMO is their life. Paying too many subscriptions in the same month will add into a not-so-nice price.
I would be okay with hour plans. In fact there are several models I would be okay with. When the business model starts envading in game though, I will not play. I don't play games to have real life money to affect my in game experience. I play games to be in that world and out of this one for a bit for some immersion and fun. I want my character to have earned everything he has or if he didn't how would it be believable or realisticaly did he just obtain that gold or item? Swiping a credit card isn't video gaming to me. That ruins all immersion. My character obtaining a sword automatically in his inventory because I swiped a credit card outside of game is the farthest thing you can get from a fun gaming experience.
If they can make money out of gameplay fine by me. I will never play f2p games with item shops and I will definitely not play P2P games with item shops. Not only that shows the ultimate greed, I find it silly for all the reasons I listed above. Now lets discuss better alternatives than these ignorant item shops.
1. Pay by the hour option - Instead of paying monthly maybe someone that doesn't play as much could opt to pay by the hour. Of course if you played all month the monthly plan should come out a little cheaper for incentive to pay for the whole month. This is nothing more than an extension of the current plans but in a smaller scale. Currently most games offer monthy, 3 months, 6 months, etc plans.
2. Advertisements - If advertisements are not in the game itself but on the game webpage, forums, loading screens, and login screen it doesn't affect me in the game world.
3. Sell out of game merchandise - Maybe the games should sell speciality design keyboards that are really efficent for their game, t-shirts, mugs, etc
I am sure there are many more ideas but there are some ideas I can think of that are not invasive like the item shops.
Don't support Sony Online with play Everquest and other such games. They are the ones pushing this greed on us. Not only they want us to pay the normal 15/month which other games ask. They also added an item shop to milk their playerbase further. While other games give you all content with your sub, SOE has decided to milk it's players for items that would be obtained in other games included with your sub or would have a better alternative.
Point me to a F2P (RMT) MMO that is as good as LotR, AoC, CoH or WoW. For all their faults our subscription based games leave the RMT MMO's in their wake.
So on what basis are RMT's going to give us better games?
ty so much MR. RICHARD .AFTER READING YOUR TOPICS ON F2P I GAVE A TRY TO MANY F2P GAMES AND I FOUND DRAGONICA SOUTH EAST ASIA .IT HAS A MICROTRANSACTION MODEL BUT ITS CHEAP AS U HAVE TO PAY IN MALAYSIAN RINGIT .AND ALSO I BELONG TO PKAISTAN .SO ASIA SERVER MEAN LESS LAG FOR ME. TY SO MUCH AGAIN.
runes of magic is a triple A f2p MMO, thus proving your all idiots who went against my post. Runes proves you can make quality with an item mall, making it a free to play worth playing.
I never said some F2P were not better than others, I have heard Atlantica online like RoM is quite good. But as good as our best subscription games, I think not!
rom isnt = to wow yet for small issue but dont party yet because come september the minimum rom will be is = to any game out there yes even wow
i can say for a beta ,yep rom is a beta game ,its an insally good one
if i compare it to aion beta
it = quality but in my view more fun feature in rom
1 small problem plague rom
it has to do with all and i mean all transition point from starting game to going in instance
when you transit it make other player in area lag the more transfer point in your area the worst
the more player in the area make it even worst
logar is the worst i saw yet but logar is always packed with player and there is at least 3 transit point in logar area
so it lag pretty bad at time but it isnt too invasive
one advice if you used curse.com auto update add-on program for wow in the past dont used it yet in rom
wait till its fixed
manually install add-on instead
You are correct they are not good games at all. Runes of Magic is nothing but a cheap copy of WoW.
i totally agree, i would rather spend my hard playing hours working toward my goal of certain items then instead of being lazy and just paying money for it. I want to have fun playing a game, not to have it just handed to me cuz i have the money.
A thought For your Buying items dillema. Most mmos Gold shops or whatever you wanna call em are Rip's. Making you buy items to even be able to advance in the game. Were otheres sell things like. Using PWI as an Example.
50% more exp for 30 mins.
Or Special mounts.
or special clothing.
Or Mabie instead of spending 10 hours Farming Materials for trade skills. if you have the money you can go buy them.
Not to mention some of them. You can use in game money you have collected to buy money for the "shop" So you technically don't need to spend real money ever.