Server Type Interview
Recently, the team over at SOE's EverQuest announced that they would be adding a new server type in the form of a 51/50 server. EQ's Senior Game Designer Ryan Barker answered our questions about this new server and other alternate ruleset servers.
Interviews By Jon Wood on May 08, 2009
| MMORPG.com: | Recently, it was announced that EverQuest would be implementing something called a 50 / 51 server. Can you tell us what that's all about? |
| Ryan Barker: | The 51/50 server is a server where players start at level 51 with 55 AA points available immediately upon creating their characters. Each character will also start with a level appropriate gear set and all of the spells available for those levels. |
| MMORPG.com: | How do you propose to keep players from using this server simply to test higher level races or classes? |
| Ryan Barker: | We don't. We're completely ok with players going to this server to try out a new class type without having to invest quite as much time to get them through the lower levels. |
| MMORPG.com: | What were the other options available to players who voted for the new server type? |
| Ryan Barker: |
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| MMORPG.com: | There seems to be some sentiment that a progression server would have piqued more interest from former players and / or new players. Can you speak to this? |
| Ryan Barker: | There's definitely a following on the boards about another progression server, and it did come in second on the poll so there's definitely some interest there. I think this is just a solid reminder that the boards are just one segment of our player base and not necessarily representative of everyone. We're definitely aware of the requests for another progression server and we'll keep that in mind the next time we want to stand up a new server. |
| MMORPG.com: | EverQuest is known for having multiple ruleset servers beyond the more typical PvP / Core server setup in most MMOs. Can you tell us what different ruleset servers are currently available to players? |
| Ryan Barker: |
Additionally we've had other rulesets in the past: ;)
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| MMORPG.com: | What are the difficulties involved in supporting multiple different rulesets for a single game? |
| Ryan Barker: | Well it's often difficult to keep the code separate from the various server rule sets and often there are ramifications for special rule sets that we didn't anticipate. For example, the no drop differences on Firiona Vie are frequently an issue with certain items. The PvP servers present a whole new list of balance issues that are very difficult to address without upsetting the balance of PvE. |
| MMORPG.com: | Why do you think that multiple ruleset servers aren't as plentiful in other games as they seem to be in EQ? |
| Ryan Barker: | I think the added overhead of maintaining special rule sets is a deterring factor for sure. We've come up with lots of ideas for special rule sets that we've decided against because of the required overhead. I think the reason we've done so many is simply that we've been around longer and had more time to try out different ideas. |
SoE is the most entertaining company in the business. And I'm not talking about its games.
hmmm may have to dig around for my old EQ account info and resub and give that server a try.
The people at SOE really are completely clueless. They never did understand what made people love EQ. It's the same thing that makes people long for a "classic" server. The number one thing that hooked people, that kept them coming back, was the pick-up-group play in well populated zones. When you could just log in, show up in a zone, see a number of groups looking for more people, hook up with a group and have fun.
SOE completely destroyed that type of play over the years and never even understood what they were doing. What they were doing, of course, was driving away the vast majority of their player base.
Even now they could still regain a good portion of those players but they still don't understand what happened or why people left. And they won't even consider making a classic server because they think that people just want one for nostalgia and so would only play it for a short time and then, having had their walk down memory lane, they would leave again. They are so clueless. Nostalgia is a part of the longing for a classic server but what people really want is to have back the old grouping game of EQ that they loved so much during the leveling up process of the old days.
I bet if they relaunched vanilla EQ as a separate game and focused on keeping the grouping game alive instead of killing it off in favor of raiding they would not only get back a lot of their old customers but they might even see a resurgence in the popularity of EQ and draw in a whole new generation of new customers. But they never did understand what most people liked about their game so I don't expect them to figure it out now.
Oh well. Looks like the easy mode crowd wins again.
I just don't get starting at level 51. But then again I like to earn what I get.
Heres to the I want it now, don't want to work for anything, and my mother told me I was special generation.
*** Shakes head and walks away
Welcome to the next generation. I never though I would say it but "DAM THEM KIDS". I am only 26 but I am glad I was rasied as well as I was. I was taught that nothing is free in life and you had to earn everything you got. It made me a better person.
I am scared to see what happens when this new generation hits the work force and has to do some real work to earn a living.
so they made their poll after u had to login as a subscribed customer?..surely just soe-fanboys voted...and they voted a f*** up ruleset similar to their current gameplay since they are still subscribed
xcuse me soe, how dumb are you? shiploads of customers are out there waiting for classic but how on earth could they be heard without being able to vote ???????????????????????
congratz, u fail, no money for you.
Hmm I've very tempted to resub to EQ1, may even try to talk my boys into it aswell =) be nice to get back into the old game again.
I agree with you. I resubbed last week and been waiting to hear which server won because my roommate and I wanted to play EQ again. So we will just start on a random server. Would love a classic server which is what I voted for.
Great post. That is exactly why Combine was so much fun: going through old zones, which were full of people, finding PuG's to do the old content. And you just can't replicate that experience doing progression on a regular server, or even EQMac. Its a real shame that we probably won't get to do it again, especially because MMO's are so stale right now. I've tried all of the newer games, and would rather play Progression than any of them.
I'll tell you what drove EQ players away, TIME.
It's been around 10 years, it's old and who's going to stick around THAT long playing one game.
Even at it's peak everquest only had like 450 thousand subs, that's nothing in today's market.
Soe only made the poll available to paying EQ customers, and then only put it on the game, not on their website.
The reason progression didn't win is because all the people who want to play progression aren't currently playing.
Of course if i have a 80 w/ 1000aa's or whatever is good now adays, im not gonna want a progression server, im going to want a server to try out alts, which is exactly what they got.
I've been excited for a progression server since january, guess its back to wow. And I'm sure I'm not the only one saying that.
Ya know, I am old school MMO player and avid gamer. I played EQ when it first came out and loved it. But those type of comments just isolate old school MMO players into an "us vs them" mentality. It makes old school players look like grumpy old men. Ya know, the ones who sit on the porch and say things like "those damn whipper snappers are ruining everything". It just comes off to others as grumpy, condescending, bitter and resistant to change. Let the companies know what kinda game you want in an intelligent manner instead of just blaming everything on the newer MMO players as it get's us nowhere.
If I don't like a certain type of music or band, I don't listen to it. Nor do I blame it on "the new generation". Everyone has different tastes, nothing makes your or my preference more valid then someone elses. I don't talk down to other people who prefer a different style of game. We all love the same hobby here whether your hardcore, casual, veteran, new comer, "carebear" and etc. Things change/evolve and so has MMO gaming. Some things have changed for the better and some things, not so much. So I'm not going to blame everything on the "mommy told me I was special" generation when something isn't made the way I want it to be.
The bigger the MMO market is, the better chance we will get a classic hardcore style MMO. If the market gets so small, no one is going to take a chance on a sandbox or hardcore MMO. They will only stick with what is considered safe. So when we shun every MMO/company that is trying new things that may expand the market we are shooting ourselves in the foot by blaming it on the newer MMO players IMHO. Obviously there is a market for both types of MMOs.
450k subs is still something in this market considering that is more then so many other MMOs have. For example, AoC and WAR, EQ2, LOTRO and etc.
Of course, compared to WoW worldwide numbers it seems miniscule but that is still more then enough to make a profit, cover infastructure costs and continue to develop the game.
As usual SOE goes for the "I want it now" players. And as usual they did not do their research to find out that that type of crowd never sticks around long. The server will be dead in 6 months. John Smedley strikes again. How can a CEO be so clueless?
Yeah, I went to the EQ forum and read a thread discussing why people voted for 51/50. All current subscribers of course. The two main reasons that kept coming up were:
1. To test run different classes
2. So that people on the existing servers wouldn't leave to play on the new server and drain raid guilds of active members.
I can understand why existing players would feel that way but what good does it do for SOE? It isn't going to help much to retain existing players because for them it's just an alt test bed and it is going to bring in damn few new or ex-players.
Also, to comment on the thing about EQ's subscriber base at it's height, if you look at it as a percentage of the existing market share of the day it is a lot more impressive. There are a lot more people playing mmorpgs now than there were then so those numbers don't seem as impressive. But in it's glory days EQ was the WOW of it's time.
Great post. That is exactly why Combine was so much fun: going through old zones, which were full of people, finding PuG's to do the old content. And you just can't replicate that experience doing progression on a regular server, or even EQMac. Its a real shame that we probably won't get to do it again, especially because MMO's are so stale right now. I've tried all of the newer games, and would rather play Progression than any of them.
Yes, because watching two guilds run ramshod straight through content and open things months before anyone actually wanted it, that was great fun. How long did Combine last? It went through how many expansions in that time? That's not what most people who played progression wanted. I'm one of them. I left after Velious opened up because I realized it was just going to be the same crap over and over again.
Yes, because watching two guilds run ramshod straight through content and open things months before anyone actually wanted it, that was great fun. How long did Combine last? It went through how many expansions in that time? That's not what most people who played progression wanted. I'm one of them. I left after Velious opened up because I realized it was just going to be the same crap over and over again.
Yeah, you're right. Progression wasn't perfect. It was still the most fun I have had playing MMO's in the last 5 years.
Combine lasted around 2.5 years, and all expansions were beaten. It may have happened too fast, but I would still rather do the same thing again than play on a 51/50 server.
Never played the original EQ.
I might actually give it a try now.
Have you heard of Aventurine?
I wonder if anyone pointed out that 5150 is the term used in California for an involuntary psychiatric hold (involuntary commitment for 72 hour observation):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5150_(Involuntary_psychiatric_hold)
When I first saw the title of the server I thought it was a joke.
In todays market thats now deemed a failure, these boards will attest to that, ppl have very short memories when it comes to the older MMO's.
In todays market thats now deemed a failure, these boards will attest to that, ppl have very short memories when it comes to the older MMO's.
What??? Name me 5 western pay to play mmo's that are anywhere close to 450k. WoW type numbers are the exception, not the norm, even today.
Welcome to the next generation. I never though I would say it but "DAM THEM KIDS". I am only 26 but I am glad I was rasied as well as I was. I was taught that nothing is free in life and you had to earn everything you got. It made me a better person.
I am scared to see what happens when this new generation hits the work force and has to do some real work to earn a living.
I would have rerolled on a standard ruleset server, but I have no interest in a lvl 50 instant gratification server.
i dont belive the decision of this server was for the veteran players, but to attract new ones so they dont have to play catch up with everyone else.
If it weren't for every expansion from PoP and beyond I would still be playing EQ. I refused to move too any other MMORPG game until SOE's new content of EQ pissed me off so much I left for WoW and EQ2. Then they messed up EQ2 and left that as well.
If thats true then why did they only allow current subscribers too vote? Ya it doesn't make sense. IMHO it's all a ploy to eventualy allow them to make all current servers a 50/51 server. Thats kinda what they did with their SOE cash thing or marketplace thing, whatever it is called.
The gear part is what I was waiting to hear about. I left EQ shortly after LDoN, never bought the exp though, and never really looked back. But a big part of leaving was that the game was top heavy, solo unfriendly and huge time sink that pretty much stalled my top char at 54. Reading around yesterday that all seems to have changed for the most part. Graphic upgrades to old zones along the way... its interesting but still top heavy. This however lets me essentially come back to my chars with current gear, more AA than before and on a server where we're all at the same place. Off to get SoF today to be ready for when this goes live.
The new exp adds henchman and other nice things but its not available retail and I love my boxes ;) Also hoping that with everyone 51, groups should be easier to find.
Edit: Now that I have SoF installed, the nostalgia is there but the oh wow things have come a long way is there too. I love that the zones are just huge, still thematic but not micro environments like EQ2. But having to talk to NPCs to get quests, slow leveling, UI is missing many quality of life features and amazingly the performance in some places is really poor and this is the rig I run VG and AoC on :O Still have another 44 days of play time to decide for good but so far its a real chore to play compared to the competition :(
What??? Name me 5 western pay to play mmo's that are anywhere close to 450k. WoW type numbers are the exception, not the norm, even today.
WAR and AOC both sold 750 thousand in the first month of their release, did those subs hold? No but it was their peak, just as 450k was a peak number as well not a held active subscriber base, for Everquest.
Just puts into perspective that Everquest is not the giant it was even if every subscriber that ever played it came back to it.
In today's market there are many many more people interested in mmo gaming than there was, it has broken loose upon the world and it spreads infectiously.
Which is also probably why, the quality of our gaming communities have also devolved so much.
To be fair AoC, WAR and other new MMOs launch numbers are peaks where EQ grew to 450K over years. When they had 450K they held it. Even today EQ has more subs than EQ2. That and with 14 expansions thats more income.
The joke is when WoW came around, during my beta time I wrote it off as a simplfied cartoony EQ with sub par graphics. Course today most people say EQ dated, WoW stylistic. Me included, go figure.
So... no ETA?
Edit for the sake of not posting 3 times in a row:
Level 51 is a trivial accomplishment these days. That's less than a week of gameplay for most people, even the casual players. Instant gratification? Only slightly more instant than it would have been otherwise. Also, the current level cap is 85, so 51 is a midlevel at best, not anything approaching high level.
AAs have become a central part of long term character development, rather than a bonus, so that's a major part of the game you can't even access til 51. Skipping to the chase means lopping off a largely irrelevant part of the game and getting to the meat of it, when you actually start building your character.
That's hilarious.
Amen to that. Since SOE won't do it, someone else is currently making that classic server. I'll be optimistic and keep hoping for a game that is going to be released that will be more group oriented. A game that does not have a quest grind, a game that makes you RELY on other players. That's the type of game that people will be friendly in because you have to actually group with other players. It's such a simple concept but no one can execute.
Failure, they would have had me back and several other of my old guild back if they would release a server that stopped at Velious. That is the game we want to play, not the horrible piece of garbage EQ is now. Anyhow at this time EQ is more or less a scam for money. The game is garbage and messed up beyond belief. They also want you to pay a full 15/month like current MMOs PLUS they have added real life money for virtual items ... FAILURE.
You would be wise to walk away from SOE games untill they stop their corrupt business practices and putting out garbage for expansions. Also if any of the management is reading this, your game team is horrible and should be let go. They have no clue to how to bring back old players. A poll voted on by the current players? Well that is going to only show you what your existing players want .. maybe you should have sent out email polls to past players to get an idea how to bring people back? You think?
It's all relative. You have to remember that translates into big numbers now days. It is the equivalent of WoW. PCs were more expensive then, MMOs were very new and less people were aware of them, and high speed internet was not that popular. 1999 wasn't that long ago but the internet is so much more than it was then. In 1999 I think this is when most people just begin taking the internet as a serious future communication tool. You just can't make that statement, the only way you could compare it to take the total active MMO players of release of EQ and the total that EQ held of those number to get a percentage of the market they held .. and then do the same for WoW. I would imagine you would see similarities in the percentages.
I just wanted to make a comment regarding the Discord (Perma death) Server. I've been playing mmorpgs since Meridan 59/ Ultima Online (Beta) and to this day have never had as much fun as I did on the Discord server. The communitees were extremely tight knit and simulated real life. I was a dark elf necromancer and us darkelves viewed every outsider with uncertianty and even had to kill several of our own kind for attacking people. We even had a few players that served as scouts to inform the rest of us when outsiders were near our town. I remember some mobs aggro'd our party and two outsider ogres attacked and killed 2 of our friends. The entire community stopped what they were doing, formed a possee, and tracked the ogres down and killed them. Players didn't pvp that much even though anyone could attack anyone and loot their entire inventory. If you died you lost all your equipment and levels. Every risky battle would pump my adreneline. I was personally attacked about 5 times but got away from each one (shadowstep). I came close to death once and my heart was pounding away. Luckily I ran into a bunch of friends when one of our kind attacked me while I was hunting. I have never seen a tighter community than in that old perma death server. I was completely immersed in the community which is very rare for me. I'm a hardcore pvper and usually just play games to fight others. I never experienced anything close to this as of yet. Once your friends die ingame they would leave as leveling was extremely slow. It was an awsome experience. Just wanted to post my personal experience regarding the perma death server.
http://www.classiceqpetition.com/ - Sign it.
Thank you for sharing! I only experienced perma death on diablo and hell ;) it was fun.
Though it would be better with faster levelling pace than EQ one.
It's all relative. You have to remember that translates into big numbers now days. It is the equivalent of WoW. PCs were more expensive then, MMOs were very new and less people were aware of them, and high speed internet was not that popular. 1999 wasn't that long ago but the internet is so much more than it was then. In 1999 I think this is when most people just begin taking the internet as a serious future communication tool. You just can't make that statement, the only way you could compare it to take the total active MMO players of release of EQ and the total that EQ held of those number to get a percentage of the market they held .. and then do the same for WoW. I would imagine you would see similarities in the percentages.
Yes people have some odd concepts.. and seem to forget much.
Then again if 450,000 Subs is nothing in todays market how many western MMO's have more than 450,000 subs? Oh that's right one... so I guess 450,000 would be pretty damn good in "todays" market.
EQ was never successful in the asian market... they never even got EQ1 servers live in Japan (as an example tho they were going to). They did get EQ2 servers up in Japan but they were closed rather quickly. So the market that EQ1 was in was also smaller...
So the two main things that boggle me are:
1) World of Warcraft is the only western based MMO that has more than 450,000 subs.. so I'm not sure how 450,000 is nothing in today's market. If you want to add in the games that are pretty much only successful in Asian markets.. then you can add a few more that have "more" subs.
2) The cost factor that was mentioned above... You do realize that CPU's alone used to cost what some systems sell for now... I mean back when the celeron 300A was a big deal due to it actually having L2 cache (non A celerons didn't) and could often oc to P2 450 speeds... for a fraction of the price etc etc Added in with how common was broadband... how bad was lag on dial up... how big was the potential market etc etc
You can't really compare two products that are released not only at very different times.. but also into vastly different potential market sizes.
I completely understand how they would see this is a good idea, but at its state of low population now I don't know why they won't just give us the classic server we've all been begging for. It certainly couldn't hurt the game any.
I think you're kind of missing the point of everyone's arguement here. However, I certainly understand what you're saying, but most people, especially EQ vets, aren't all about the instant gratification.
So much for that, I thought I would start again with EQ on a progressive server but you can shove this stupid ruleset.
Nostalgia is one thing but there really isn't anything forcing you to game outside the classic EQ zones. And as someone who literally yesterday resubbed... going back to Qeynos and other original zones is a "wow we got addicted to this?" moment. EQ held my attention and sub money hostage for nearly 5 years but going back.... classic EQ is nostalgic but really terrible in context to new MMOs. Probably why they released TSS which keeps classic EQ mechanics but looks modernish and has quest NPCs.
But seriously killing snakes and skeletons for feet and bones in my undies isn't something I want to revisit in '09 ;)
It is a different game even if you didn't leave the old zones. Death mechanic has changed, classes have changed, new classes exist, overpowered gear drops exist, zone graphic revamps, character model revamps etc. Also you know that when you artificially limit yourself in a game, you will not have the activity the game would have if everyone was on the same page.
Even just creating an new server and just locking it at Velious content and labeling it classic would give folks that want this type of content a single place to congregate and play together.
EQ will never go back to a group focus game. Raiding killed the game, but it's there to stay. SOE loves raids. They focus on raiding in all of their games. It's easy to program and gives you the most bang for the buck so to speak. People are willing to do the same raids over and over just to get the best gear in the game, making it very long lasting content, if you can even call it content.
Grouping content requires so much more effort, even though it caters to the majority of players. Hell, there are is a larger soloing crowd than raiders, but you'll never seen any decent solo content in EQ, ever. SOE is lazy and greedy. They will do the least amount of work for the most return, even if it mean alienating the 2+ million that have tried their game and left, leaving the measly 250,000 they have now.
Sadly, most companies are following this trend with raiding, even though less than 20% of their player base ever raids. Even Blizzard has gone raid crazy with their supposedly casual friendly game. Good luck getting content or loot even remotely comparable to raiders in any current MMO.
Thank God for Bioware, they are going to break this mold and I'm excited to see how popular it will be just because it won't have raiding for end game. Let alone the inclusion of tons of soloable content. Assuming they make a fun and enjoyable game, nothing difficult for Bioware, those two points above could really make TOR a huge contender in the MMO genre.
For a second I thought, "Classic servers?!" Boy was that shot down real hard, real fast. What a load of crap. They truely have no clue. This will only appeal to people who think raiding with a high level character is what MMO's were made for. Morons.
HAH the last line is pure gold! That made me laugh for a solid few. XD "To arms men! the snakes and rats are at it again at the Freeport gates! Grab your undies and splintered club and meet me outside to thwart their plans!"
Instant level 51 and RMT. Wow.
If SOE was going to throw the baby out with the bathwater they could have found much better solutions to EQ's fundamental design flaws.
I think you're kind of missing the point of everyone's arguement here. However, I certainly understand what you're saying, but most people, especially EQ vets, aren't all about the instant gratification.
I am an EQ vet. I just disagree with people who left the game and say it's crap now. I actually prefer the way the game has developed in more recent expansions, in terms of features. I was just saying that it is NOT instant gratification-- there's a ton of game, both in terms of content and character development that just starts at 51. It's just getting you to the starting line of the long haul.
They are clearly making NO effort to recruit people who left the game, but rather trying to cater to their current paying customers.
I am probably a little "meh" on the first 51 levels because, while I've taken a few extended breaks, I've pretty much never left EQ since I started playing in September '99 , and I've played a variety of alts to about that level on several servers, so even doing the newer newbie content (TSS) is boring to me, and the old school newbie experience is just plain old and tedious at this point. I started a character on the last Progression server and decided I hated it within the first three days. Way too "been there, done that".
So, what you are saying is this is a private server? Those are illegal and it's against forum rules to post about them.
What is the point of playing on such a ridiculous server? Why even play a MMO? The entire point of playing a MMO is developing your character. The only thing this does is feed the "I want it now generation". Another bonehead move by SOE.