Pirates of the Burning Sea: Cross-Subject Q&A
Pirates of the Burning Sea Producer, John Scott Tynes, answers out questions about Sony Online Entertainment, beta, distribution and more!
| MMORPG.com: | What led to the decision to pair with SOE for publication of Pirates of the Burning Sea? |
| John Scott Tynes: | We needed a partner who could do retail distribution, marketing, and billing. SOE has years of experience in these areas and they're a great fit. Several of us have friends there and we know SOE from the inside, not just the public side that gamers see. We have a lot of confidence that they're going to do an absolutely kickass job of getting Pirates into the hands of gamers everywhere. |
| MMORPG.com: | Are you concerned that the negative feelings that some players have toward SOE will affect the popularity of PotBS? |
| John Scott Tynes: | The proof is in the pudding. Either our game is great or it sucks, and whatever the reaction, it's our game and we're the ones who made it. We know there are haters out there. When we made our plan to announce the deal, we told SOE we wanted to do our own announcement directly to our community the night before the press release, so we could explain what we're doing and why we're doing. If anyone reads all of Rusty's devlog on the subject (http://www.burningsea.com/pages/page.php?pageKey=news/article&article_id=10349) and still has nothing to say but "SOE SUXORS U LOSE" then like Mister T, I can only pity the fool. |
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| MMORPG.com: | Your letter to your community announcing the deal with SOE mentioned that it was to be "platform published", making it different from SOE's internally developed games. The last title that SOE published in this way resulted in SOE's acquisition of that company (Sigil) as well as the game (Vanguard). What can you say to fans who fear the same fate for Flying Lab? |
| John Scott Tynes: | Sigil's troubles with Vanguard have been very publicly documented by Brad McQuaid himself and they had nothing to do with SOE. People who blame SOE for what happened to Sigil are either grossly misinformed or willfully blind for the sake of hating. This is a hard industry for an independent developer. Sigil is in no way an exception - indie studios close all the time. If you look at console games, you'll see a long record of studios shipping a title and then firing everyone because they don't have their next project financed. That's the business. It sucks but it happens all the time. Flying Lab is self-financed. We're not running out of money. We are definitely eager to stop spending our money and start making some, but we're launching the game because it's ready, not because we can't make payroll. That's the biggest difference between where we're at where Sigil was at when they were finishing Vanguard. Some of us had friends at Sigil and what happened there is really sad. They definitely had a vision for what they wanted to achieve but making (and financing) an MMO is a gigantic challenge. SOE is going to keep Vanguard alive and will gradually address its major problems. It'll have a home there for as long as fans want to keep playing it. |
| MMORPG.com: | You recently announced that you have finished 1,000 missions for each nation. How many missions does this make in total, and how long did it take to complete? |
| John Scott Tynes: | Our goal was to hit 1,000 missions per nation and there are four nations, so that's 4,000. Some of those missions are duplicated from nation to nation with the patrons, enemies, locations, and flavor text changed as appropriate. Many others are unique. There are actually a lot more than 4,000 missions in the game. There are all kinds of missions that we don't really count in that number because they're simple deliveries or they're turn-ins where you can exchange a list of reward items for something cool, like a new ship. These are more like game services that we do with the mission system because it's so versatile. If you count all of those, the number is more than 9,000. But really, there are 4,000 missions with a story, characters, combat, loot, rewards, etc., so those are the ones we talk about. I founded the content team and hired most of our mission designers, starting in about the spring of 2005. We were still getting the mission system up and running then but there are a couple of missions we made that summer that are still in the game. So really, it took about two years. Of course, we got faster as we got more experienced at working with the tools and systems. About half the missions were created in the last eight months. |
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| MMORPG.com: | Can you give us a feeling for the kinds of missions that will appear in PotBS? |
| John Scott Tynes: | We really wanted to make missions be much more diverse and more challenging. MMOs typically have just a few types: collection quests, delivery quests, and bounty quests. We have dozens of types of missions including a lot of very customized instances. In your first hour of play as a pirate you'll fight your way through a smuggler's cave to retrieve stolen treasure, engage rival pirates in a naval battle, fight a one-on-one duel against a mutinous swordsman, force a Spanish merchant to surrender so you can hand her ship over to a fellow pirate, and learn who really runs things in the town of Marsh Harbour. Not long after that you'll explore the mystery of why there's a pile of bones in an obscure alley, discover the secret of an old statue in a town plaza, and eventually challenge the local crime lord and take his underworld signet ring for yourself, an object that will prove useful throughout your career. Oh, and there's the mysterious treasure map covered in Arabic writing, a burning town assaulted by pirates looking for your map, and a lovely princess from a distant land whose brother you must distract long enough to flirt with her. Really, it just goes on forever! |
| MMORPG.com: | How has the Beta been progressing? What kind of feedback have you been receiving from testers? |
| John Scott Tynes: | We started the beta in December of 2005. By the time we launch, we'll have been in beta for almost two years! It's been fantastic and a lot of very important changes and decisions have been driven by the experiences and feedback of our beta testers. In general, the thing almost all of our beta testers say is how stable the game is. We just don't crash very much, we don't lose or corrupt character data, and really the game feels solid. We have plenty of bugs but they aren't destabilizing and they don't prevent you from playing. We think having a stable and reliable game is incredibly important. Crashes and lost data are just unacceptable. When we find a crash, we fix it. |
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| MMORPG.com: | All games go through an evolution in the Beta process. How has Pirates evolved? |
| John Scott Tynes: | The two biggest changes in the game since we started the beta have been the addition of the player-run economy and swordfighting. We're actually close to rolling out a new auction system because beta feedback on the old one was that it wasn't good enough. Those systems will have gone through multiple generations before most players ever see them. |
| MMORPG.com: | Will PotBS be available in stores, by download, or both? |
| John Scott Tynes: | Both. |
| MMORPG.com: | A number of MMOs have distributed a Collector's Edition, are there any plans for something like this in the future for PotBS? |
| John Scott Tynes: | Hard to say. The feedback we're getting from the retail chains is that collector's editions aren't selling very well. There are too many of them and they aren't that special, so retailers end up stuck with tons of collector's edition inventory. We're looking into that more and will figure out what to do. |
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SOE ??????
No thx.
Omg, this game was in my waiting list.... will be no more!
Christ, you haters are all over these threads like flies on a turd, aren't you? Fine, we know you're not gonna touch it due to SOE, despite your ignorance. Great, now piss off and go play what you do like. FLS don't appear to need your business.
Back on topic, the piece about questing was a good read. Sounds real piratey :) Very much looking forward to this. Reckon I might be able to find a good RP home.
On that note, if any devs are watching this thread, how's the game going to be for roleplayers?
Cheers!
I am quite excited to have another game on the Acesses pass, makes the price that much more appealing.
From my perspective as a Star Wars: Galaxies player and having a lot of insight into SOE as a game company I must say that SOE gets a lot of the blame that should be directed at LucasArts. Everyone blames SOE for the debacle that SWG has been yet SOE can only do what LA tells them to do, and the buzz is that SOE often resisted many of the appalling decisions that LA forced upon the game.
Not that I'll be buying PotBS anyway. The developer has already made a bunch of decisions that make me not want to touch this game with a ten-foot pole. Fantasy pirates? No thanks.
Wow, I've been waiting to get into the beta for that long? I remember participating in the forums when this game wasn't even a blip on the radar yet.
Guess I will have to wait for the reviews before I make my purchase.
Don't you love freedom of speech? Your exercising your right to free expression while attempting to silence a differing view... lol The irony. It's funny to see people like you get so upset over someone else's view. If you don't like my posts... block me. Put me on "ignore" if you will.
Actually... going with SOE is sort of like piracy too... so I suppose we were already on topic, eh?
The blame I am assigning to SOE is based on my experiences with their business practices, dishonesty with their player base, and EQ2. While I played SWG for a few weeks, I never really thought it captured the essence of the movies well at all, so I never really got into it.
Actually, I'm not stepping on your freedom of speech at all. I'm just telling you to go play something you like, because constantly pitching in on these threads with your hatred of SOE isn't doing anyone any good.
You're right though, good tip. I'll just block you.
Ah yes... the access pass. SOE's version of walmart business tactics. Swallow as many games as possible to pull as many players away from independent or smaller game studios. But I suppose in this day and age, I shouldn't be surprised how little people care about that sort of thing.
There's a difference between being smart and being stubborn. If SOE can put out a good game, I'll play it regardless of their past games. Games are about having fun and being entertained. If they can do that, I couldn't care less about the company's history. When / if their games stop being fun or entertaining, I'll simply move on to a new game.
Getting obsessively upset and holding a grudge against a company because they changed a game in a way that you didn't like is just childish. MMOs change. That's what they do, and that's why they're so popular. Roll with it or move on.
Just because you have the right to say something doesn't mean it's the right thing to say.
The fact that you don't care about the company's history is an example of why companies can get away with horrible business practices. People are too complacent, and will overlook the bad so they can get self gratification. It's sad, really... not that you care.
Actually... my grudges are less about changes to a game and more about horrible business practices, dishonesty, and their business model being harmful to the industry. The issues with changes to the game would have been enough for me to cancel, not rant the way I do.
Yeh, you can drive with your feet on the wheel. Doesn't make it a good idea.
Lol You still have the SOE shellshock? /pats Dreneth's back
Monopoly? I guess, they are one of the bigger publishers out there. Then again its a business and we all know that companies are making/publishing MMOs for business not for the hell of it. Sure theyve messed SWG up, whats your point? LA had the IP and they had a hand in it as well. So i suppose you wont play an LA game too? Because if you do then you have double standards. SOE isnt a saint but its not the devil either. Its a company thats in it to make money like everyone else, deal with it. If your simply fearing that PoTBS will have an NGE FLS has said their not in an economical pinch to simply sell off their IP. I dont care wether SOE/MS/EA is involved, if its a good game ill play it. If it sucks then i wont simple as that.
I agree with you... though opinions differ on what people agree is right and wrong. To tell someone they should be silent, in my opinion, is universally wrong. I amy tell you you are full of @*$%, but I will rarely tell you to be silent.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's all about perspective. It took me a while to figure it out, but I finally got it. Entertainment. Is entertainment really something to hold a grudge towards?
Not for me. Life happens. Perspective.
lol - yep... still ranting about SOE.
I don't mind a publisher being big, it's how they get there and what they do to the industry in the process that concerns me. I am a big fan of responsibility in business, but I fear I am in the minority with my opinion that consumers should actually care about who they do business with.
As I have mentioned before... my issues with SOE are not related to CU or NGE or whatever other SWG buzzwords may come up. I never really got into SWG, I never felt it captured the feel of the movies. My distaste for SOE is based more on their business practices than their horrible management of game development. And I am sure LA had some to do with the issues as well, but SOE pooched EQ2 a whole bunch of times, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were the majority of the issues people saw in NGE / CU.
If you feel the quality of a game is more important than the quality of the company publishing it, that is your choice. I won't fault you as a human being... we're not talking sweatshops in china here. Although some people seem to think that's what I am trying to say... lol
I'm curious to know how you seem to have so much knowledge about SOE's "business practices", as you seem to imply.
I don't hold a grudge against entertainment... I just choose my entertainment responsibly. I am not one of those people that only cares about themselves... I weigh my options, and choose a path which does the least damage. I would rather support independent game developers, or studios with honest business practices, than a large corporate entity which only cares about profit.
For me... that is the right choice. Smaller developers have families to feed to. How's that for perspective?
First game since YEARS that has potential to draw me away from eve at least for a while.
This one shows incredible potential!
If a game is extremely fun i'd even buy it off EA.
Personal experience, research, and paying attention.
Good job Flying Labs. Thanks for addressing this for the community.
Here's to hoping all those with terminal SOE hate syndrome drop out of the beta so I can get in!
So your professional observations and extensive research qualify your "opinion" how? I'm not a SOE fan, nor am I a hater, I am just playing devil's advocate.
I can agree that companies should be responsible with their products and all that. But lets face it, if we were to put businesses in that narrow scope most of them would fail to be transparent and responsible to begin with. At that point you'd be boycotting 90% of the places you go to. Its just how the business world is, doesnt make it right but in the end one lone ranger withholding 15 bucks a month wont make a dent on them. So at that point you have a choice, stop yourself from playing a game (if its good) because if its dev or publisher? or simply go ahead and enjoy yourself. There are many other types of businesses that should garner the type of attention you put into SOE considering that their services are simply gaming, some others involve death for money and much worse.
You have your opinion ofc, and you make your own choices but imo SOE is just a game company and boycotting their products (the good ones that is) because i think they are the devil doesnt make sense to me. EA is very sketchy and people seem to not give a crap that their publishing WAR. And tbh....in my book EA is lower than SOE.
Why is nobody addressing the real problem with this game???
NINJA > pirate
<waiting for a Ninja MMO>
I have descrived my experiences, posted links, explained industry impact, so many times in the last 2 years that it gets a bit old. I have yet to have anyone actually refute my claims with anything more than "don't be a hater" posts.
If people don't believe what I have to say... by all means... post some credible information proving that SOE is a responsible and trustworthy company that does not have a negative impact on small development firms.
Rather than constantly having to prove my point... I'd love to see someone disprove it.
Am i wrong, or isn't the main reason people play games is for the QUALITY of the game? Whether it be graphics, gameplay, quests, storyline....Whatever it is, the majority of the mmorpg community is drawn into a game for the game. People play WoW because they like it, or hate it. Sure Blizzard's customer service could be part of the reason people leave the game, but i can almost gaurantee if someone enjoy's "pzowning n00bs" in BG's, or actually enjoy raiding the end-game content, they wont quit the game because Blizzard's name is slapped on it. (In no way am i promoting WoW btw) Sure if SOE has part in the game, it may make some gamers leary of the game, but bottom line is if the game's the sh*t, the game's the sh*t. No matter if X company produced it.
Dont get me wrong, I'm not the biggest fan of SOE as well, but if PotBS peaks and keeps my interest on release / months into it, i will keep playing it.
I didnt play SWG.. dont know what happened there but I played EQ2 and i think they did a great job with it.
Im not a SOE fanboy or SOE hater but I trust the Devs who make PotBS and I have high expectations about their game.
Im sure they had plenty of time to think and find the right publisher and Im sure they made the best choice they could for the better of their game. Also Im sure SOE will remain just a publisher here with no influences on inside game changes.
Lets not start with a negative opinion here. Give the game a chance! SOE didnt make it!
The thing Im really looking forward too is the launch day. They said we will be able to buy the game in a box or on a site and download it at launch.
Being able to download the game from the first day is GREAT! Alot of us in many countries need to wait weeks/months before we could find the game in a store and we are tired of always having to catch up. Sometimes we cant :/ depending on the game and on our social life lol. So if we can download and play from the start we will be some freakin happy gamers and I really think this is a good move for any game.
Actually... it's not as harsh as you would think. I do actually practice what I consider "responsible consumerism" in as much of my daily life as possible. I always try to by local, and when I can't, I will go to the most responsible company I can for my goods and services.
I refuse to simply "give in" to the idea that business is what it is and I should deal. No thank you. I don't care if my own boycott of SOE has no impact on them or not. At least *I* am not giving them my money. And yes... I will stop myself from playing a potentially awesome game if my sub fees are going to go towards a business which I feel is worth boycotting. There are plenty of other ways to enjoy myself which don't require me selling out my convictions to play a game.
I agree with you, and I put the same attention towards those as well, though the action I take is more direct than posting in forums. I do this from work, and I do that from home/in-person. Trust me, this isn't taking away from my consumer / human rights advocacy elsewhere.
I don't think SOE is the devil, that's walmart. But that's a topic for another forum. lol
As for EA, I am definitely developing a similar distaste for them. Since they have aquired Mythic Entertainment... DAoC has suffered greatly. I haven't run into the same billing issues, and I did need to interact with the customer service people since I resubbed, and they were excellent with me. So, perhaps I should look more into EA, but any distrust of EA would not move me from my position on SOE in the least.
I was going to do the EA joke, damn. I'm still going to try the game. I'll give any MMO trying something new a chance.
I played EQ2 from the 2nd week after launch until early '06. It went from awesome to crap to decent to crap to good to crap... not sure where it is now, haven't been back to see, as I am sure you can tell from my rants. lol
We'll see how it all pans out in the longrun. The game has a lot of potential... but there is a lot of potential for problems now, too.
Ask Sigil how that worked out for them.
They didn't make Matrix Online or Vanguard either... but...
Unless SOE pooches up distribution. They do that sometimes. Notorious for that with expansions in SOE... they had a lot of issues with Dessert of Flames, both with availability and the in-game items one was supposed to get. It was a nightmare for a lot of people.
The download should be more important than retail distribution, as every player will have internet access. Retail distribution is overrated in my eyes. I agree with you in this point 150%.
your welcome to your opinion dreneth like everyone else... it wont stop me buying SOE games now or in the furture as I have never had any issues with SOE and their games have been really fun to play..
I hope pirates will be good as well but who knows at the moment will just have to wait and see..
It is annoying that since this news was announced the other day abotu a million threads have popped up about it.. would be fine if it was just one thread.. just get a bit tedious seeing post after post about it..
As you will never have anything to do with SOE then you will never get to play any of their games even if they turn out to be awesome.. I also hope you dont own a playstion, ps2, ps3 or psp as some of the money from those sales will eventually get to SOE in some form or another.
"They didn't make Matrix Online or Vanguard either... but..."
thats true the brought them up when they ran into financial issues, both matrix and vanguard where broke before sony got hold of them, from what i have read about vanguard they are doing a better job then sigil ever did.. and i also read the matrix has got a bit better as well.. tho i cant belive that haha
I will settle in to play this game when they change it to "NINJAS of the Burning Sea."
Because we all know NINJAS are better then Pirates. This game will be full of wannabe Jack Sparrows, and Captain Hooks, among other butt pirates.
I mean seriously, you can be British, Spanish, French, or a Pirate, I see everyone playing the role of Pirate.
British ships will automatically carry more Tea then ammo.
Spanish ships you will smell way before you see, loseing thier ambushing ability.
And the French ships are pre-equiped with wine, smelly cheese, and back up lights.
So none of them have any advantages, while Pirates get to use terms like ARRRRRGGGGHHH! and sing songs like dead mans chest.
Now bring in the Ninja Armada and they will be able to appear on any of the above listed ships and disembowl the crews and steal the wine and women, and enslave the french.
So now lost customers who just don't want to have anything to do with SOE are now just "haters." Not consumers making an informed choice about a company they've had bad experiences with in the past - no they're just "haters."
I've read just about every post about this now, here at MMORPG.com, over at your PotBS forums and also at the Open Discussion areas of other game forums. And I've never heard anyone say "SOE SUXORS U LOSE" or anything remotely like it until you said it in your interview.
You're all really coming off as petty now. You knew you were going to lose people who had been interested in this game for a long, long time over this. Buck up and take your medicine. I've made several posts about this at different boards and each time I've wished you folks and PotBS sea the best of luck, and have also said I wouldn't try to talk any of my friends who'd I'd gotten interested in PotBS out of playing it just because I won't have anything to do with SOE again. But after your comments, Mr. Tynes, I'm amending that and I will do everything I can to talk them out of playing your game.
That's ok, I don't expect to change everyone's mind.
No kidding... it gets difficult to debate in 40 different threads.
Actually... my distaste with SOE started after my first issues in EQ2, long after PS1 & PS2 were in my living room. I still have the PS2, and use it is a DVD player, though I do not purchase games for it. When it dies, I will replace it with an actual DVD player and to hell with PS3. I don't buy Sony anymore... haven't for some time now. SOE is a seperate corporate entity which is owned by Sony, but most of the decisions and practices which I take issue with come from SOE's corporate governance. As long as SOE is profitable and out of legal trouble... Sony probably woudn't have much to do with (even know about) many of these issues.
Sigil never had the chance to do well or poorly... they sold out before launching the game. As for the matrix online... lol
So you're saying that the haters are the flies, what does that make SoE in your analogy then, hehe
Oh and on a side note, I do hope SoE doesn't drop the ball when it comes to "Marketing". They have been seriously lacking in that department in the past. Look how badly they did when it came to advertising Vanguard, Everquest II, The Matrix Online and Planetside. I only recall seeing a couple of magazine adds from them (none from MXO) and one crappy commercial for Star Wars Galaxies after the NGE. I mean when WoW first launched, you couldn't turn around without it hitting you in the face, SoE has been making their games more WoW like, when they really need to make their advertising department more like WoW's. Ok thats about all I have to say on the subject.
LMAO - well said
That being as it may, turd is a hell of a lot more useful than flies.
I'm looking forward to playing this game. It's great to see the developers communicating with the community as much as FLS has. Thanks for the Q&A!
Was this supposed to make sense? lol
"Actually... my distaste with SOE started after my first issues in EQ2, long after PS1 & PS2 were in my living room. I still have the PS2, and use it is a DVD player, though I do not purchase games for it. When it dies, I will replace it with an actual DVD player and to hell with PS3. I don't buy Sony anymore... haven't for some time now. SOE is a seperate corporate entity which is owned by Sony, but most of the decisions and practices which I take issue with come from SOE's corporate governance. As long as SOE is profitable and out of legal trouble... Sony probably woudn't have much to do with (even know about) many of these issues."
haha well thats all the ps2 was good for anyway :)
Oh, you mean like when they were making statements like "looking for a distributor..." while they were actually negotiating with one? They waited until the deal was inked to mention anything, rather than state they were looking into SOE as an option... why do you think that is?
I am a SWG player and quit the game the day of NGE ... but I don't entirely blame SOE. SOE has made what I consider the best and most stable all around MMO to date....EQ2. They made 1 mistake.... I think everyone deserves a second chance.
I love the idea that Pirates will be on Station Pass and I can't wait to play it.
Why is it that people feel the need to bring terrorism into discussions like this? Are you really going to trivialize something so serious by using the death of thousands to make a point in a debate regarding video games? THAT is what is sad. Shame on you.
My position regarding the issue at hand is in no way related to the topics you attempted to bring up, so why don't we stay on topic, shall we? As for my "little personal crusade", you are really bing very silly.
Actually, I am not looking for the attention for myself... but rather making an issue of things in the hopes I will turn customers away from FLS and SOE. If that upsets you... block me. Then you don't have to read it. Or you could invalidate your point that I am looking for attention by continuing to do the same in replying to me. lol
The fact remains that Pirates of the Burning Sea is a game.
Games are meant to be fun and enjoyed. Personally I think FLS has a great game that will be immensely fun with/without SOE partnership. If you disagree, thats your own opinion.
So if anyone out there wants to have fun and yell 'YARR!' at the top of their lungs there should be an open beta before release. You should be able to play PotBS for free without having to pay SOE a dime. You can decide for youself if its a fun game.
All others can go sulk and rant in a corner as I will be having fun, laughing, meeting new friends and supporting corporate america.
I don't rant from the corner... I can't reach the PC from there.
I'm the Mr. Tynes you're referring to and I was really just trying to make a joke. You clearly aren't someone who has nothing to say but SOE SUXORS, so you're not the kind of poster I mentioned. I'm in no way saying that people who never want to play an SOE title ever again are just haters -- what I am saying, and will happily continue to say, is that people who have no more reasoned opinion than SOE SUXORS are haters.
We have people in our community, on our forums, who have been active for months or longer, and who now say they're leaving because they decided some time ago not to play any more SOE titles. I can and do totally respect that, and those are not the kinds of people I was making a silly joke about.
Reaction to the announcement has actually been better than I expected. We knew there would be a lot of negativity from some people, both in our community and elsewhere, and we weighed that against the benefits SOE could provide and decided to take our lumps. But taking our lumps doesn't mean sitting meekly and apologizing over and over again -- it means clearly explaining our position and our reasons and showing up in forums like this to provide discussion.
I'm sorry my joke offended you. It's been a long couple of days and I thought a little levity was in order. I never said that people who are burned out on SOE were haters, and I really don't want to leave anyone with that impression. Principled disagreement is a fine thing; unreasoning flames are not, and that's what I was trying to talk about.
Actually... both points are correct. Take both positions you show here, and merge them... then we're on the same page.
So what does that make you for spending the time to argue with me? You are as much responsible for the silly here as I am.
I am simply replying to people who reply to me. That's what forums are for. We're going off topic again.
Hey, no problem. lol
Myself, I don't bash SOE, they have some decent games, my problem with SOE lies with Smedley. What amazes me with all the horrible decisions he has made at a great cost in revenue to SOE, that he is still there.
I will not touch a SOE product as long as he is at the controls of SOE. I don't have to go into the details, his misadventures litter the internet and a google of his name alone brings up a long list of them.
I do feel for the developers. If they had chosen Microsoft for example the hew and cry would have been just as bad.
It is a shame really, as our corp in Eve had been thinking of moving enmass to Potbs. Just saw a post on our forum this morning nixing the move because of SOE.
We've been talking to publishers for three years now. I've gone to meeting after meeting with these folks, flying all over the country. Hands down, SOE had the best offer and has the expertise in distribution and marketing that we needed.
We'll definitely lose some customers this way. But an effective marketing and distribution partner means we should be able to gain many, many more.
I don't expect to convince you that we made the right decision. We've lost you as a customer and that's the way it goes. But I am here explaining this stuff for the benefit of others reading these forums who are interested in our game and want to know what we're up to.
Because that's standard business not to tip your hand to other competitors/potential suitors....? C'mon, you're just trolling here.
<mod edit>
I respect your positionand your actions but wonder about your accusation -- wire fraud is pretty serious....how's that proesecution going?
Agreed. There are a lot of great games out there. What I've seen of LOTRO has been very good, for example, and I'm curious to see what NetDevil is doing with their relaunch of Jumpgate.
Your forums are filled with locked threads, it seems discussion is taking place... only if you like what is being said.
So, you are going with a company with a horrible track record for billing and distribution (check the BBB listings, they are worse than walmart.com) as a solution to billing & distribution?
They've botched the distribution of their own expansions for EQ2, what makes you think they will do a better job with a competitor's product?
Yep... that is the way it goes. Every bad decision will cost you clients. Unfortunately, you are so star-struck with SOE's big name that you are forgetting something here. You need every sub you can get. SOE's own games are hemoraging players, and there is a growing number of people like me who are so fed up with them that we will never play another SOE title, or title associated with SOE.
If this ends up tanking, and you have to lay people off, remember what you said here... "That's the way it goes."
If you look at the locked threads on our forums, you'll see they end with a note like this:
"Please continue to use *this thread* to talk about publishing and distribution, which also includes information and updates about beta."
The "this thread" part is a link to the main discussion thread on this topic, which has more than 800 posts and counting. We're locking threads to prevent sprawl and confusion, not to stifle discussion. We aren't deleting threads or posts, just trying to keep the discussion going in a single, highly visible place with rapid responses from our staff instead of in dozens of little spinoff threads. Charterizing this as censorship is incorrect and unfair -- it's just good forum management.
If anyone wants to see for themselves, please take a look at our General Discussion forum where we're locking threads and directing people to the main thread on the topic. Check out any of the locked threads and you'll see what's really going on:
http://www.flyinglab.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=19
SOE has done great work in distribution. As recently as Vanguard, their ability to get boxes on store shelves was outstanding.
Monthly subscription billing for hundreds of thousands of people is not easy and problems happen. I'm sure there are people with horror stories about billing problems in WoW or EVE or any other game we could name. But for the overwhelming majority of SOE subscribers, things work fine. If 75% of all SOE subscribers had horrible billing problems all the time, they'd be out of business, pure and simple.
We haven't forgotten that at all, and SOE's "big name" is no bigger than EA or NCsoft or any other major publisher. Signing with a publisher does not equal being star-struck.
We've been very careful on this project to manage our costs. We're a small, independent studio and we have to be cautious about overextending ourselves. We know how many subscribers we need to be profitable, and it's not a big number. We're confident we can hit that number and, with SOE's help, find a lot more players beyond that.
In the end, I am convinced that our success or failure will be due to the quality of our game. Even if SOE does everything insanely great and we sell a million copies, it won't matter a bit if 30 days later most of them cancel their subscription. SOE did a truly great job in marketing and distributing Vanguard, but the quality of the game at launch was the deciding factor in whether people kept playing.
In the end, all SOE does is give us a great chance to be seen by gamers. It's up to us and our game to make the most of it.
Dude, you're a piece of work
1.) Threads are locked because unlike mmorpg.com, the community manager and mods know how to consolidate threads. Start looking at them and you'll find links to where active discussion is.
2.) Horrible track record for billing and distribution? 336 complaints in the past 36 months with all of them being resolved.... Now, considering the number of accounts and transactions carried on, that's not a bad reputation, contrary to your belief.
3.) Distribution -- putting boxes on shelves and advertising....
4.) They don't need every subscriber -- As I've said in other threads, there's such a thing as a bad customer and they aren't worth having. Also recognize that companies are aware that their products won't appeal to everyone -- they're not counting on 100% acceptance to survive. They have their target market set and have already account for the SOE boycotters. Their percentage is considered small enough that the gains of partnering with SOE are worth it. Your judgemental attitude automatically makes you and people like you a non-factor and if some of you happen to cross over, then that's a bonus for FLS.
Translated: "blah, blah, blah, I don't like SOE, blah, blah, listen to me so I can feel important, blah, blah, blah"
SOE and POBTS. It's a done deal, like it or not. And the world didn't explode. Imagine that....
Dren, what do you play? I mean seriously, you spend so much time around here waving the SOE suxors flag, how can you actually play any of these independent titles your signature says we should support? You keep saying you are waiting for SoE to make some sort of business decision to improve its image as a indy-killing mega corp.
Then we have here PotBS, being made by a small indy company who could not get the kind of big-box distribution a Major publisher/developer could, so they'd be stuck with Digital download only and would miss a serious part of the market. So what does SoE do? It strikes a deal to allow FLS to retain FULL CONTROL and OWNERSHIP of their INDY game, while giving them the kind of launch that only large publishers/developers could afford. It seems SoE is doing its part to help indy companies get the attention they deserve. What are you doing to help indy companies, besides attacking the one major publisher who seems to agree with your signature "support independent games"?
First I would like to say I have played every SOE game.. I for one think SOE ruines everything it touches.. Vangaurd, SWG, EQII, Matrix..well that was bad before sony touched it..
I just hope they dont ruin this..
Well I also played all SOE games and all I can say is that:
1.) Soe has worst developers of 21th century
2.) Soe has a great billing and launcher system
So kudos to you FLS! You have done a great deal
Your first point is made of 100% absolute truth.
Your second point is not. SOE has a billing system that still charges people after they've cancelled - didn't happen to me in SWG but it did when I left EQ2. "Convenient" mistake - like releasing a game expansion they knew would be obslete in a week's time.
I have to agree. I prefer to see SOE publish a game that would otherwise have less coverage, less subs and therefore poorer community due to lack of players. No company is perfect but I really have trouble understanding how SOE get bashed so much. I have had issues with every company ranging from stand alone games through to mmo. Companies make mistakes because they are run by people. I expect every new release to have bugs and performance issues. So when I come across them I just shrug and move on. I judge each game on its raw potential and ongoing development. Otherwise I would never last more than 2 weeks in any new release.
Is there an official release date or have I just missed the post?
Since the deal between SOE and FLS strictly limits Sony to the role of advertiser and distributor i fail to see what the SOE haters have to complain about. Having such limited involvement in the game will limit SOEs share of the profit to a very small percentage.
Most of the money you'd spend on this game would go into the pockets of an indie developer who despite all odds is able to release a kick ass game which finally stands out from the crowd of boring clones offering nothing new.
Despite being a former SWG player myself i will give my money to the folks at FLS for creating this unique and different game which will finally bring me back to playing MMOs and enjoying what i like about them: Giving players the ability to influence that virtual environment, be it either directly through crafting and creating things which are useful to others , through (PvP) combat which actually changes the world map or just by interacting with other players and not be limited to /duel or /spit.
Apparently there's reason for MMORPG to delete all threads which are politely expressing a concern or reason why they are not going to purchase Pirates of the Burning Sea due to Flying Lab's affiliation with SOE.
Very very sad.
The threads deleted were respectful. They were not troling nor flaming.
MMORG.COM has lost all credibility with me and this site is obviously NOT a place to get valid and respectful views and opinions on topics aligned with the theme of this site. (I suppose this indicitive of the inept nature of the mods and admin.)
too bad...
Release has been delayed until Fall. No more specific than that. Now that the deal is signed for publishing we should see a date settled on in the coming weeks. I wouldn't expect it to release until at least September.
As for the SOE deal for platform publishing PotBS, It was the best alternative and the gains from global market reach will FAR outweigh the losses from SOE haters.
I am SO ANGRY right now. I wanted to buy this game so badly, It looked so awesome. SOE is involved now, no way, no thanks. I have been burned WAY too many times. This is another BOYCOTT SOE post. It might be the best game ever, even with SOE. But i'll never know, cause I just wont play it. Fuck sony, Fuck SOE. I'm out. Hope WAR doesnt get eaten alive.
Thank god I ordered a P'zone.
Who knows how this game game will go, I am still tempted to try it even with SOE publishing it.
One thing to keep in mind though. Smedley is directly responsible for much of the various playerbase problems at SOE in the past and still is at the helm last I looked. If the game is a success, how long will it take Sony to flash money in front of the developers faces? Promises aside, I don't know a developer yet that has not grabbed the money and run at the first opportunity.
My thought is to play the game now and make a decision when such happens. As long as Smedley is in control, SOE cannot be trusted.
If your hatred for SOE comes from what happened to SWG you really should start to put your blame on Lucas Arts, SOE just did what they were told. So at least give this game a chance when there's an open beta / trial whatever. This devs really deserve some support, even if it means to give $1 a month to SOE, who i'm sure learned their lesson with SWG.
Maybe they'll finally focus on what they do best, publishing games. Making them just isn't their forte.
I agree that sure is a great post by SpankyBus.
John's reply is win thank you.
Actually your misinformed. You say business model being harmful to the industry. Then by your comparision or logic you should be a MONK right now living in TIBET, having nothing to do with any company. Everywhere you look a company is out to do 1 thing, and thats make money. Being misinformed that SOE is so bad for you and other people then why hasn't the Government stoped SOE from selling games in USA?? Do you smoke crack? Do you even know what your talking about?
So don't buy fast food, don't buy a car, don't do anything because the companies have similar backgrounds, making money. So you had a bad experience with SOE, I doubt that has stoped you from playing their games. HMMMMM yeah check that list of SOE games you played, and the hipocricy reigns supreme! Go do us a favor and take a critical thinking class and try to understand points and CONS and PROS. Also SOE gets the blame for things like Lucas Arts doing in SWG and what happened with Vanguard. Who sold who to who and didn't SOE help Sigil? Also isn't EQ2 pretty big now with more and more subs each month. Also Blizzard had major setbacks, in the community at Blizzard when servers crashed daily and lag issues with WOW first few months wasn't resolved the people blamed Blizzard hard, and said the same stuff about never buying another blizzard product. But LOTR is out and all the haters forgot about that and either bought it or continue playing WOW. If blizzard announced a Diablo 2 online coming up then all the haters would run to it like gold in the hills during the gold rush.
On point, the article explains allot that is very interesting. I like how they are using SOE for distribution etc. Thats a smart move cause SOE rocks for publishing. I can't wait to try POTBS sword fighting.
Some interesting points in this post, and whilst i think most of us understand the point of view you have, and for the most part a point of view we all have. Most of us having played every mmo ever released and been sorely disappointed by them for the most part.
There are some issues you seem to misunderstand. The failure of vanguard is really a failure of the people playing, not of the game. People expect too much of a game, they want everything to be easy. And because vg isn't easy they all quit and went running back to wow.
so what.. pirates looks like a interesting game, and regardless of soe being a part of publishing it or not, i for one will buy it and play it. If it sucks, i'll quit and come running back to vanguard...
I would like to pull up on some of your points tho,
""So, you are going with a company with a horrible track record for billing and distribution (check the BBB listings, they are worse than walmart.com) as a solution to billing & distribution?""
Since when has Soe ever had a poor track record for distrubution? You can download the game via the web, you can buy it from almost any shop in almost any part of the world. They have gamecards available for most mmo and multiplayer games name one company which is the equal.. blizzard certainly isn't blizz has the singularly worst patcher on the planet and patches that dont even run in cinq, if you have to do a reinstall, chances are you'll be waiting 6 hours for the patcher.. this doesnt happen with soe games. If anything Soe distrubution is the best of any pc game publishing company.
""Your forums are filled with locked threads, it seems discussion is taking place... only if you like what is being said.""
If the basic reply to the avg thread is "you suxxors" what can you expect of devs and mods to do others than lock them, personally i'd delete them and ban the trolls. Whilst it is often misunderstood that someone says something seen as negative because they're trying to point out an issue they'd like fixed is often locked..this doesnt mean the mod is in the wrong, but that the poster needs to spend longer in school to learn how to post.
LTP no, not learn to play, learn to post... hehe
As to Pirates losing you as a customer... i don't think they will, like the rest of us, i think you'll buy it, play it and make a final decision later on. You can't go through life hating Soe because you think they botched everything they ever released. You can hope that finally they won't. Lets see the game and make our decision. If not, you can come kill rats with me in Vanguard.. i haven't grouped with another player there for nearly 3 weeks.. mainly because i haven't "seen" another player in vg for that amount of time...
Everquest was the greatest game ever released. Nothing of that magnitude has been released since wow and it definately beat Eq hands down. But wow was too easy. Next time we want something to beat wow and for it to be a challenge. Lets wait and see. I like sailing in real life, i like old ships.. i like sinking pirates.. i'll be buying this.
That would be cool.. everyone sneakin about assassinating each other...like rogue wars in wow...only problem tho, is ninjas make poor sailors..
Uh, wait that wasn't the question, right?
Okay, back to the real problems...one I am not in beta, this is a games first downfall, not one MMO has succeded with out my beta input. <this doesn't mean those that collected my beta input actually read it, but they still got it.>
Second true problem, again there are no Ninjas in your game. I can fix this too. give me a beta key and a little time in the game.
Third problem, well the collectors edition needs to come with a keg tap.
What you guys are discussing is all illegit crapola. Yes, every game SOE has taken on eventually ..what was the term? Suxxors? but is that all the fault of SOE? Ultima Online kicked butt for a few years...did SOE have a hand in it? no, and it still went ...suxxor? DAoC...did SOE kill it? nope, Anarchy? Lineage? WOW? M59? The Realm?
Point is, while there have been a lot of MMOs that have come and gone, they all eventually sucked, or we would still be playing them right? So is it really SOE that kills them, or is it Time? A game becomes boring eventually. Can you imagine trying to keep a game interesting for 10 years? No damn way! EQ went strong for well over 6 years, I know because that's when I quit playing. Did a particular exspansion ruin it, like so many claim? No..the last few exspansions did, they were all the same thing with a few new loot items, and new skins on some old mobs. Woopity fricking doo!
Same goes for every game, how long can one team make a single game go on for? Most of us are bored with life and that is why we play these games, for change, well eventually it gets to be the same old daily routine too. So what does a team do? write a whole new game every couple of years? hire new blood? then you change the whole dynamics of the game to some degree and tick off a certain class/race.
SOE has ahad it's problems, it's actually done more good then bad in my opinion. If I still had time to play like I used to, I would so pay for the all access pass from SOE, and get to play whatever I feel like that day.
Here is the real problem for games today. : you can't stop. Your wife/husband/daughter/son/aunt/uncle whatever gets sick, and you need to help take care of them...you are off the game for three days. In that three days, your usual group of friends has gaind 5 to 20 levels over you <depending on the game> now you are useless to them, they can either take the time to help level you up <again depending on the game> or they can keep going and hope you catch up.
Well unless everyone else takes a break..you aren't going to catch up.
Another problem is skills/equipment/spells/etc... the whole reason for your leveling frenzy....hmmmm level 6 ahhh look at this cool spell! I can't wait untill level 8 to see what I get next.
Well crapola, now every game is pretty much the same, so you hit level 6 and go oh cool I loved this spell when I got it in <insert game name here> oh wait this version sucks!
You want to win me over for awhile, give me a game with all new races, no high elves/wood elves/ dark elves/ humans/ dwarves/ barbarians/ gnomes/ etc... Give me 30 races to choose from, and 80 new classes to choose from, sure it's a lot to ask, but you figure rogues a lone you can do cutpurse/assasin/informant/cutthroat/backstabber/trickster/rogue/pickpocket/scout/cat burgular....got the idea? sure most seem like they would be the same thing, but give each one a set of skills or spells that are thiers alone. I can asure you, pick and 6 geeks from these forums and ask them to brainstorm a class build up/ skill set, spell set for 80 classes and we could do it in a weekend...some of them in a day. Give me a story setting, not FF12 type story, but tell me what has happend thus far in my life and why I am who I am, or give me a really creative outlet to tell my own story. not just a paper doll that I can write a bio in, but something that other people will notice and ask about. Last that I will go into for now....equipment, look at the D&D mmo and how they did equipment, and go even more individual I think armor, shields, weapons should be very personal, I want someone to ask me the story of where I got my +8 kite shield of life, but not have him be able to go out and get it the next day.
Another game handled by SOE?
Won't these people ever learn anything SOE touches turns to shit. Look at every game in SOE's stable including Vanguard and that will tell you all you need to know about this new game coming out. It will either be unfinished, unpolished, bugged to the hilt or any number of negative things wrong with it.
Yes, it's a new game and many people will go check it out but don't be surprised if it turns out to be another Vanguard. Players know enough by now to know SoE's grubby dirty hands are all over this one and judging by their track record this one is sure to bomb too.
i meanr seriously if SOE was a reputable company..then guess what.. there would not be such a huge stigma on them and any company that: "oh they doing our billing servers etc" type deals, which lead to vanguardesque situations.
Other then world of warcraft name one still highly populated non-SOE game.........
and um SOE i guess would be EQ just b/c that was a pioneer of MMO's.
eq2 is a failure imho, tried it but they screwed over players, changed the game many times, the whole gameplay and public dupe ruined economy...
um I really cannot think of a atm successful SOE game
MMOs come and go like a monthly period these days, and none of them can hold a persons attention longer then a couple months, because none of it is new. Its all the same old crud over and over again. Imagine standing in line to watch a great new ground breaking fantasy movie and all you get is a movie about a bunch of hobnobits that have to take a bracelet to the ocean of brightwaters to dispose of it forever with the aid of thier friends lego-lass and brandolf the not so wise.
entropia
Anarchy Online
Ultima Online
EVE Online
I do agree SOE is great at selling games, just not maintaining them. If the developers are going to actually run and moderate the game and SOE is as hands off as everyone says then this deal really maybe ok.
Some words of caution with SOE about their billing system though, many people have been continued to be billed after subscriptions cancelled (in both EQ2 and The Matrix Online, had several guild members including myself experience this problem). Also if you except a free trial from any SOE game, DO NOT enter your credit card information, as in says in very small print on an unrelated screen, that when you do so you forgo the free trial and begin pay 2 play immedieatly. The matrix online actually had a sticky thread about how this is a known issue in their system and would be resolved soon, but it was never resolved and no one who unintenially entered thier CC info got refunds, even after pointing out it was a known issue. Just some of my personal experience with SOE, and for those reasons I cant say that I would ever be thrilled to play an SOE game again.
I understand we're all human, and companies make mistakes, but Ive spoken with a lot of SOE customer service agents over the years and have never found any to be helpful or polite even when they post in their own forums its a mistake they know about and are trying to fix. I hope the developers factored that into their equations when they decided to publish with SOE, but my guess is theyve never had to deal with a complaint with SOE from the customer's point of view.
I do wanna thank the developer though for taking the time to post in this forum to stay in touch with thier community, and defend their actions. After signing with SOE, that takes a lot of balls. Sounds like a good game, please try to keep it that way.
Yeah I have heard that SOE's customer survice has got better, not that, that mattters as customer sevice is being done by FLS with help from a 3rd party.
Gonna play this one boys, can't say it will be good tho .. but it looks good enough to try.
Let's see what's exactly on the Access Pass shall we? Everquest 1 - Old, extremely top heavy game that only the vets generally enjoy. Station pass is keeping it alive (as well as two, three boxers and gold farm accounts). Everquest 2 - The only truely worthwhile game, the anchor game for SOE right now. SWG - Could still be great but they botched it with NGE. Actually the game is good, could use some more updating on graphics. Matrix Online - Boring ass game, all but dead, station pass keeping it on life support. Planetside - Game should be free by now, old, sad. Vanguard - Awesome game, premier content, wasn't finished due to Microsoft pulling the plug, SOE rescued it, might still be a A+ game in the future. Station Pass keeping some blood flowing to the veins. EQOA - PS2 game, nice addition there for cross-platform players, actually a good game. Station Access Games - little mini-games, stupid freebees added in.
And NOW Pirates of the Burning Sea. One of the FEW games I am looking forward to for 2007!
If SOE decides to add The Agency as well that will be a HUGE value!
Everquest 1 used to have the Legends server which would be a premium server, more GM events, etc. And people paid nearly $25.00 for it. For ONE game. With Station All Access you at least can try other games for variety. Let me tell you SOE does some stupid things sometimes, but they also do some things VERY VERY WELL! And honestly they have charted some new waters for the industry to follow and in doing so made some mistakes, but they are a good company.
I own Station Pass and I find it a better value every month.
I
SOE , i even have a SOE coffee cup! GO Sony go! 
Can't agree more. I have been personally undergoing SOE's way of customer satisfaction (feel the irony) and told myself "no more, ever". Same applies to EA, for that matter.
It's about personal pride, it's about never ever giving them one dime of my money ever again. So they have improved you say? Too bad, they had their chance(s) and they blew it, a few times.
For the record, i do that with every company that treats me like i don't matter. Be it the grocery shop, my bank, or a game company. I can only hope there will be more customers like me, because then it WILL have influence on how they need to fight to get and hold on to customers.
Ummm, Entropia has never been, and never will be successful. Anarchy online was so successful they had to make it all free to keep people playing, and even then the game looks so bad no one wants to play. Ultima was a good game a long time ago but most people that still play play on the illegal emulated servers. Eve online I have not played, but from what I understand is a great game, so I will agree with that one, but untill recently I wouldn't have considered it main stream, which most of SOEs game are.
"If your hatred for SOE comes from what happened to SWG you really should start to put your blame on Lucas Arts, SOE just did what they were told"
That statement is so blantantly untrue it is pathetic. Smedley made the call on NGE, noone else. Yes Lucas Arts wanted some changes, but Smedley was the facilitator. Go read Ralph Koster's site, it explains Smedley's complicity in some detail.
SOE ? Thats all I i had to read. Sorry but i'm passing on this game as well. Too bad, I was looking forward to trying it out, now i have no desire. Call me a hater blah blah blah.....SOE is not good for MMORPGS. I wish developers would stop using them.
"So aside from that, how did you enjoy the play Mrs. Lincoln?"
I totally understand that some people are just not going to play our game because of SOE. I have some hope that if we have a good launch and good word of mouth, that eventually maybe you'll give us a shot. If not, I wish you good gaming anyway.
I can assure you Mr. Tynes. I beta tested Vanguard, then played 2 months into the release. I left the game because it didn't fit me as well as I had hoped, it wasn't as unique as McQuaid had sold it to us. But I will tell you even with all the "I hate SOE" thread, and "I am not going to play this game if SOE is involved" threads, Vanguard still had a very worthwhile release. I was there. I saw it with my own eyes.
I don't think SOE is the problem with these games, I think the games are the problems with todays MMO. Trying to keep a game fresh and new feeling for several years is a challenge. Give me diversity, let my charachter be unique from everyone else, not only in looks, but skills, make sure I will have things to do even with out a group, my time to play is limited, and for me to miss a week of play and come back and the players have surpassed me by several levels, here I am all alone in the noob areas with nothing to do? this is what can kill a game.
I want to be able to log in when I want, fo however long I want and not be at the bottom of the food chain.
per aspera ad astra.
Gimme a good game and I ´ll play it.
So much couth. Again, you guys rule.
Good reply. Thx for wishing me well with my gaming :). Enjoying LOTRO at the moment. I just dont like SOE being involved. I"m glad you understand where some of us are coming from. SOE has just done us wrong in the past and we don't trust them anymore. I don't care how people describe SOE's involvment etc. I just dont want to see SOE anywhere near my game. Simple as that. I hope you guys enjoy the game and have a blast. Arg me mateys !
Why can't you people get it through your thick skulls that SOE had nothing to do with the failure of Vanguard? If they made any mistake, it was allowing their name to be associated with such a trashy product. Sigil ran out of money, Vanguard was released about six months too early, and the rest is history. Contrary to popular belief, Vanguard did not fail because it was too hard or complicated for players. It simply was not polished in any way shape or form. It felt like playing a beta version of WoW and underdelivered in every possible way. There is no logical way that SOE could be remotely responsible for the failure of Vanguard due to the very late stage in the game that they signed in on. If anything, SOE got screwed by Sigil.
No, I don't like SOE developed games. But POTBS is NOT an SOE game. They are handling distribution and a world class server system. NOT the actual game. If you guys can't figure this out then I don't even want you in the game anyway. There's enough stupidity out there without you blind SOE haters getting on board.
There's more to all this than "haters" of course. I personally will be giving PotBS a shot because of two things:
1. It wasn't actually developed by SOE, nor will they be providing support (that would kill the deal right there, I'll never sub to another game where Sony provides the "support").
2. It's a new style of MMO (kind of) and there's a conspicuous draught going on right now.
Flying Lab has said outright that they've done it for all the right reasons and none of the wrong ones, so I'll take them at their word for now... this isn't Horizons after all. Is it? Man I hope it isn't.
"Perspective" is just a fancy way of saying you've managed to Rationalize away your conscience.
DAMN GNOMES!!!!!!
We have a legitimate reason not to like SOE.
We have a legitimate reason not to trust SOE.
We have a real responsibility to warn people how SOE operates so that they are not cheated.
Giving money to SOE rewards SOE for SOEs bad business conduct.
I will still play PotBS and can't wait for its release, though I don't know who is to blame but about every game SoE gets its hands on usually does turn sour. Though I don't think that will be the issue with PotBS since SoE has no real power over what the developers do. I'm not so much a SoE hater as a Smedly hater, some of the comments he made about SWG emu were quite insulting to the anti NGE community, and in one post he made he admitted NGE was a mistake they learned from then commented that the statement was not admitting NGE as a mistake.
I don't care who handles the shipping of PotBS as long as SoE doesn't interfere with the development of the game.. I
I have been waiting for PotBS for years, I'm not going to let SoE interfere with my enjoyment of a game, may actually get the SoE pass since I occasionally play EQ1, though it isn't anything like it was before Luclin, there are pros and cons, I just hope PotBS doesnt go the same way EQ, PS, SWG went after such good starts they went flat because of patches and expansions.
Went with SOE...
Talk about riding a wave through a hurricane.
The word of mouth when it comes to SOE is worse then EA's and that's saying tons. I'm sure you developers understand exactly what I'm talking about .
As for getting upset about the "haters" understand these were eager gamers at one time, that looked forward to playing quality games they may have seen. That eagerness turned sour one way or another, so sour that it has turned fanatical.
I feel obviously there must be something to it or the very conversations about it wouldn't be taking place in a setting such as these on this, a cross-subject Q&A.
I understand the game may be very good, but for anyone that has been in and around the gaming scene, seeing the name SOE connected with any gaming title taints the first impression.
I don't hate SOE, but they are shady. I think they need a clean up campaign and quick. i think they need to lower that station pass from $30.00 to something more reasonable. The games they offer arnt worth that much. Maybe release a few free games to help "fix" their image, though many will not budge on their animosity toward the company and produced titles, it may be a good faith gesture, as long as they back that gesture up with quality of product and community support in the future.
But i understand SOE is running a business and that approach may not be an option.
But lets be reasonable, they really jacked thousands of hardcore gamers with that SWG expansion situation, then removing all the classes a bit afterward.
I didn't buy it of course, i was out of there soon after beta was rushed. But i got the hit when they released Planetside, i did closed beta that title, and they nerfed it to hell and back when it went gold, ruining the game i went out and bought... but hay
I too was looking forward to playing this title, but well i feel the taint too so, Its the old saying ya know, "Fool me once.... "
I do hope you get what your bargained for, and not a lot of what you didn't. You developers say you care about quality of product, and SOE needs a quality product to market . Maybe i will try a trial or something down the line, and if SOE lowers that station pass and brings out a few more exciting quality titles ill pick it up, but by that time there will be other exciting quality titles out and well..
Anyhow good luck to you and your baby. Lets hope she grows up big and beautiful.
On your waiting list? It was the only mmo that I was looking forward to. Now I spose I will have to wait longer.
Alot of people complain about the amount of games out there that are a remake of WoW, and that are not made for the player base but for the cash.
I for one will not pay for a game published by SoE until I have seen the results and had someone else spend their cash trying the game.
Companaies and developers will 99% of the time aim for the buck, because of own finacial intrests, company pressure, and the share holder. They wont take risks, listen to the people until they are forced to. One way is to cut their finacial gains, so they have to take a risk to make some money. I dont pay for crap.
I believe SOE to be a company after the buck.
If it is not SOE's fault theat they assosiated themselves in a situation like that, why do they keep making the same mistake? SWG ring any bells?
Despite what anyone thinks, theres still a high probability that soe will own potbs one day. I see two ways that happens. One, the game comes out and is a flop and soe buys them out like they did with vanguard. Or two, the game is successful and soe wants in on the cash flow and pffers the owners of the game so much that they can't refuse. I wouldn't really blame them either. This sort of thing happens all the time. A small company does all the initial start up work then, once it either becomes successful or falters a large corporation comes in and buys it up. This might be soe's new business model. Let someone else spend all the upfront money and take the risk then come in later and buy them out.
Reality check IF potbs is succesfull and then sell it SOE they'll get loads more then they ever invested in the game.They get that because they took a risk.That's how a small company can become a bigger company.So don't pretend as if SOE is the big bad wolf here because FLS is in it for the money too like any other developer.The time in wich developers where gamers who did it for gamers is looooooooooong gone......
These days the words of a developer mean nothing any more.They^promise content they don't put in the release game...promise new updates and features that never see the daylight.They promise arelease date wich gets set back every time just to keep you waiting.
Nah..for me it doesn't matter if it's SOE or any other publisher.They are all the same these days...they just see us aspotential cash nothing more and as long as you see that and understand that it's the same as bying a dvd-player or anything in a shop then you'll be allright.Just don't think they will/should care for you...you'll end uplike the SOE-haters then....the SWG-vets for example , after 2 years they still don't get it.
All i can say is that IF i play this game one thing can make me glad that SOE is in on it....i can do without the swg vets who still haven't gotten over it in my gaming community ....