Lord of the Rings Online: Founder's System
This week in Outside the Box, Garrett Fuller looks at Turbine's Founder's System that has been put in place as a pricing system for their upcoming Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar.
Editorial By on February 20, 2007
Outside The Box: Turbine's Founder's System
By: Garrett Fuller
Editor's Note: This is a weekly column from our News Editor Garrett Fuller. Each week, Fuller will highlight new innovations in MMO gaming as well as smaller games that you may not be so familiar with.
When it comes to playing MMOs, there are many ways we can discuss the game play aspects. Mechanics, design, characters, skills, PvP. All of these things can be topics for debate or articles. In today’s Outside the Box I wanted to bring up something that Turbine is doing with Lord of the Rings Online. It is about paying for an MMO. There are many pricing schemes that companies use to keep players in their game. Most charge the monthly fee, some charge for items and gear in game (a scary thought), but overall the business plans presented by MMOs are designed to keep you paying and playing.
The market is becoming more and more competitive. Players have less time on their hands to try and play every game out there. Most players stick to one or two MMOs and enjoy them over the lifespan of the game. If you eventually get bored, there are plenty of options. MMO developers need to start thinking of new ways to bring players in and keep them in the game while balancing their costs over time. Turbine has put an interesting plan in place for players getting in at the ground level. Not only does it address pricing, but it adds to the competition in the market.
The Founder’s Plan, as it is called, begins when a player pre-orders a copy of Lord of the Rings Online. The player will not only get into Open Beta (expected at the end of March or beginning of April) but they will be able to carry their characters over into launch. This may seem unfair, but it really is not. It is simply giving players some advantages to getting in at the beginning. Plus, the Open Beta doesn’t have too long before the game’s launch, and it really is just a test of the launch client anyway. So keeping my character will be a great step in playing the game. Players often complain about games launched even though they are in a Beta phase. LOTRO seems to be combining the process.
The pricing of the Founder’s Program is also something different. Players can buy a lifetime membership for $199. If you plan to play this game for over a year, this is a great offer. You don’t have to worry about monthly fees; it’s just one payment to play. Also, if you begin as a Founder, the pricing plan allows you to pay $9.99 a month to play the game. In today’s MMO market with the $14.99 average, the $9.99 seems like a pretty good bargain. Please understand there are terms to all of these features to prevent people from exploiting the service. Turbine will still be making the money, but these offers at least allow players some options.
Last year at GDC the pricing of MMOs was a hot topic. As the year has passed, I am sure next week many developers and business people will be discussing MMO pricing again at GDC. Some of the plans were very scary. It seemed like developers were really out to get whatever they could from players, money-wise. Keep in mind that first and foremost, making MMORPGs is a business. As with any business, you have to make money. I for one have no problem paying for a good game. I would gladly spend a monthly fee to keep my account going and enjoy new game content. I don’t even mind paying for expansions as long as the game is fun.
This pricing program from Turbine is a great way to get players in and enjoying the game right from launch. If you are a fan of LOTR and plan on playing the game, then the Founder’s Program is for you. Considering some of the other pricing programs I have seen, the Founder’s Plan seems very player friendly. While the difference between $9.99 and $14.99 is not a lot, it is better than paying more for a game.
Overall, I think the Founders Program is great for fans and players who are excited about the game. Why not reward the players who you know can’t wait to get in and play by giving them a more friendly system. In the end, we all have to pay to play. At least it seems like Turbine is giving us some options. That being said, if all else fails, you also get two magic items. It is good to see companies coming up with more payment options that are…outside the box.
I have mixed feelings about a life time subscription to a MMORPG.
On one hand if you have a life time subscription then the developers have no real reason to try to keep you around since you already gave them all the money you are going to, and beyond that you are just extra bandwidth on their servers now.
On the other hand a life time subscription might remove the need for redundent, boring, grinding tasks that developers use to keep players subscribed at end game.
ala FFXI to get more revenue. All in all I think this may be a good way to get an initial base of players.
It is your option too, no one is forcing you to take it. You can pay $10 per month to see if you still like it in 6 months.
Did you see that posted some where? That's the first I heard of this...Yes, that is true. One character and there is a level limit. It's posted in the fine print of the offer.
Endemondia, I am currenlty in Closed Beta, however the NDA was lifted recently so I'll give you a little feedback.
Combat in LOTRO is currently reasonable similiar to WoW (and indeed any current MMO) in that basic attacks are enhanced and supported by a variety of click-to-activate special attacks that do more damage, cause bleeding, stun effects etc
For example, in the Hunter class - using a 'Barbed Arrow' causes bleeding (DOT) - which can be left to bleed - or you can use another that capitalises on the bleeding effect by a sudden large damage effect, but which cancels the bleeding.
One thing that is different is that attacks seem to 'queue' - but you cannot see this queue at present - which mays that you do not - or possibly cannot - react to the NPC's attacks in real-time as such (due to the fact that you may have already queued up a couple of attacks).
Combat 'feels' quite visceral and satisfying - though is not perhaps yet to the standard of visual and aural excellence of WoW's. (Forgive this comparision but I do feel that WoW is a premier yardstick to measure against in terms of polish, even if you do not like the game).
Regarding comparing it to DDO's combat all I can say this is: (and this may be a deciding factor!)
I managed all of about 5 minutes in DDO's world. I thought the environment was fundamentally unconvincing and unimmersive.
I have been in BETA in LOTRO for over a week and I have very positive feelings towards this game which is remarkable polished and robust even it this (relatively) early stage.
There are few MMO's in actual retail existence that compare to the polish of the BETA version of LOTRO. Whilst it has some way to go in terms of WoW's engine scalability and graphical polish - it is shaping up very well indeed.
No matter how high a level you are, you still want to do newbie quests. It's true. LOTRO has a system of rewarding reputation and exploration. After you have done all you can do for the elves in the newbie zone you can move on to the Shire. While the Shire is a newbie zone as well, you still are compelled to do the quests for the rewards. Some quests grant titles you can add to your characters and some quests grant bonuses to your character (think talents from WoW). All in all it is very satisfying to run around Middle-Earth.
What does this have to do with the article? Well after a month and a half playing LOTRO, I haven't logged into my WoW account. Once I can get the Founder pre-order from Canadian retailers (Damn you Canada!) I'll be pre-ordering and signing on for the lifetime membership. The lifetime fee is the same as 13 months at $14.99... I know a value when I see one.
I think this is a great idea for fans to show their initial support and get a good deal in the long run. It's interesting how different MMOs charge us (and I wouldn't say paying for ingame items is scary, just a different revenue model). The reason I'm thinking of getting this deal (which is available to EU customers as well although with just a 10 day head start) is that I expect to play for a few months then quit, then come back, many times. I can imagine popping into the game at random intervals and a lifetime membership is a lot less hassle than stopping and starting my sub.
Lifetime membership covers the monthly fee for the release game and future expansions. You will still need to buy the expansion packs but need never worry about a sub. So I no doubt will buy each of these and play them although it may be over a period of a number of years.
However, for people thinking they'll get this deal and play for a couple of years solid I'd be careful. The size of Eriador in LOTRO is physically pretty small although there are many nooks and crannies to explore. The simplistic crafting system can be mastered relatively quickly and will hold no long term appeal. Finally, I doubt the longevity of a heavily quest-based game. This really is a game you want to take your time with and enjoy the ride.
I am sceptical about forking out a big chunk of money for a long period of play. There's only one MMO out of a fairly large number that kept me interested for over a year, so although it sounds like great value, if you get bored in 3 months it wouldn't be. How can you tell what you're gonna feel in 3 months about the game?
All developers have to do to keep people hooked for a long period of time and therefore make money, is create a damn good game. Easier said than done, but thats the long and the short of it!
Yes it applies to expansions also. You will need to buy the expansions, but you will never need to pay a monthly fee if you get the lifetime subscrition.
What is the catch then? simple, if you cancel your account at any time if/when you reactivate it you go to the $14.99 price. So if you were paying the $9.99 and need to cancel then when you go back to the game the $9.99 is no longer an option. If you took advantage of the lifetime option and cancelled your account, you would then have to pay the $14.99 per month to play again.
Most people think it is stupid to cancel a lifetime subscription and I agree, but I say this - beware of angry roommates/spouces/girl or boy friends. People tend to give out account information to their friends, spouse, whatever. I know people who have broken up or got into a fight with their significant other and the other went into their account and wiped them out to get even. Imagine if they had your account information and had the power to cancel a lifetime subscription.
sounds good enough and fair enough for me...
think i`m gonna give it a try...
Thats all wrong. LotrO offers a combat system where, your always doing something, IE your never waiting for cool downs. Not many mmos do this. Also LotrO steals a little from FFXI's Skillchain system, IE the SJ system. People need to really get there facts straight before the post miss information like above.
Im with Jack on this, Also Turbine will make plenty of extra cash of us life time members, simply because they plan to have at LEAST 7 expansions. All of which i fully expect them to charge the same price that say Blizz is chargin for there expansion (IE regular box price of a new game)...
Ive said this so many times, I have no problem paying the cash for a great mmo... in fact, i would rather support a great product then have a company try to skim on the cheap, because in the end i want quality.
When its a great game, go ahead... give me expansions and mini packs out the you know what... heres my CC info..
I have obtained many of those, some better than others but at last, most of the benefits of pre-order where gifts like art-books, maps, calendars, paintings, t-shirts, figures and such wich had a very short lifespan on my desk before I put them into boxes and never touched them again...
From this I think the way Turbine goes with their plan gives me as a player a much better bonus for pre-ordering.
Think this is my first post here, though Ive been lurking a good while.
First off, I think there is a very high chance of me buying the lifetime scrip. I like mmorpgs and LoTR. Yeah, Im a nerd. Sooo?
Now, I didnt see any mention of this. So here goes my opinion on the pricing scheme. As well as I can tell from friends,boards, and so-on MANY people who tried DDO played only for the 30-day period or not even that long (myself included). Im willing to bet Turbine took an absolute beating on that game. Im not a numbers person by any means but if that many folks bailed before Turbine ever got a single 14.99 sub fee from them, It would be a wise decision on thier part to grab $199 up front for lifetime...than take a chance and possibly never even see a $14.99 sub.
In short, I think its more about finance,than "giving" something to the player base.
Well last time i saw, DDO had about 80-100k subs.. i mean thats not bad. Also they did more then that on box's i think they sold initialy like 400k... I think DDO will out live a lot of current mmos and the game has goten better... bottom line, in terms of money i dont think its a failure...
MMORPGs have finally entered the mainstream gaming market. Post-WoW they will all be judged compared to other PC games like Myst and Civilization and Diablo. DDO's numbers might have been all right for a first generation MMORPG but the times have changed. DDO was mediocre at best, maybe not as bad a failure as Matrix Online or Dark and Light, but certainly not a success.
Still it is good to see Turbine experimenting and trying something innovative. It will be interesting to see if this new model works or not.
Theres an old saying in football "everyone is happy when there winning"
I fell that no matter what price point you use, it just doesnt mean anything. As long as you have a great product, thats all that really matters. All this other stuff is null unless LotrO is a great product.
IMO Lotro will be the best PVE mmorpg, We still need things like housing and more types of character AA but im sure that will come soon.
No one has ever questioned Turbines skill but yet all there past games have failed for so many reasons. Bottom line, theyve learned a ton... and it shows. Its really clear that Turbine knows what there doing, that Lotro is a great game... when i play a game like Vanguard, its very clear that those devs dont have a freakin clue...
The worst thing gonig against turbine is ... well there Turbine. I myself can see that there great but to that poor soul who bought that AC2 expansion... no such luck lol.
With pricing plans being discussed in the OP I'm surprised that the Guild Wars model isn't mentioned. No monthly fees at all and it seems to be working for them as the game is still going strong. Personally at the time I bought GW because of this and although I played it a few months it wasn't really the game for me in the end.
Also, I don't believe I'm about to say this, DnL had some interesting ideas around pricing as well. As with all the other good ideas they got lost in the crap implementation of their game.
WE are wondering off the thread now but I appreciate all the information I am getting from those who have been in the beta. Cool downs are an acceptable way to balance out stronger skills/special attacks etc. Further more, when some one tells me WoW is the yard stick by which all combat systems should be measured I shudder. I quite enjoy WoW but it is using a combat system marginally better than EQ and most Asian imports, less balanced than GW, and lacking any requirement other than to point and click on an enemy and punch keys to create attacks! Combat systems in sci-fi mmorpg require you to target manually while D&D allows you the pleasure of doing this. Further more Wyzun played D&D for five minutes. Surely a metaphor for not too long, so having not experienced a combat system better than WoW I think, like many online gamers, ignorance is bliss . I now suspect that Turbine's marketing strategy will have LOTR for the dumbed down masses and the fresh blood to the market (new gamers brought in by the Tolkien franchise) while D&D will be for the more refined gamers. I will probably be accussed of snobbery here, and one man's mutton is another man's lamb, but I get the increasing feeling, even more so when i hear the implementation of the SJ system, that the combat will be weak. I hope I eat my own words when I experience it first hand - and maybe the other elements of the game design will counter balance a combat system weaker than WoW (omg...that takes some doing!)
well it is definitly selling some pre orders
EBgames/ Game Stop #1 http://www.ebgames.com/default.asp?sect=1278
Best Buy #10 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=pcmcat99100050041&type=category
Amazon.com it is at # 5 http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/videogames/229575/ref=pd_ts_vg_nav/104-2518171-8849567
This is still with 2 months left before release and looking at the Amazon/Best buy figure it looks as if it attracting a lot of the more casual crowd along with the old school MMORPG crowd. Considering a lot of people are waiting until the public open beta to buy I think it is safe to say that Turbine has a genuine hit on their hands here.
"Further more, when some one tells me WoW is the yard stick by which all combat systems should be measured I shudder."
Endemondia , It's not often I get annoyed!
If I take the time to write an honest and hopefully helpful response to a query posted, and I feel I have some information to offer - I would appreciate it if you actually read what I have said!
I did not say WoW's combat was the yardstick to measure quality by. What I said was this:
"(Forgive this comparision but I do feel that WoW is a premier yardstick to measure against in terms of polish, even if you do not like the game)."
Furthermore, I mentioned the quality of WoW's combat only in terms of visual and aural 'feel', not it terms of complexity or thought required. As it stands, LOTRO's combat does not require a great deal of thought, at least at lower and mid levels.
For me, the only MMO that offers any true sense of skill is Planetside, but that's by the by as clearly it is skill rather than character/RPG based.
The rest of your post is also patronising, Endemondia - I mentioned '5 minutes' as an indication of how little I thought of DDO, obviously it was much longer. I have vast experience of MMO titles dating back to UO.
Also, I am a 36 year old father of two. I am neither ignorant, unrefined or simplistic as your yes, snobbish, latter comments suggest.
I would like to see you re-address your comments, as this has been a disappointing introduction to the MMORPG.COM forums for me.
Why pay 200 for 4 months of content?
Jared, I am happy you are younger than me and have one more child but it is true ...we are a long way off this thread! If I sound like I am patronising you then forgive me for being older than you - If you feel I misquoted you then your anger and more in depth explanation should make us even. Of course if you come back to D&D any time soon I am always up for a dual! }:) By the way that Planetside sounds interesting. Is it anything like Project Entropia which feels like a first person shooter mmorpg?
Interesting. I guess your lamb is my mutton. lol
I don't know much about LOTRO's combat, but comparing it to D & D online, which I did play for a month or two, I would have reached the opposite conclusion. (ie. DDO's combat is for the masses) lol. In my view, having the player's "twitch" (for lack of a better word) skills introduced into the game, it necessarily reduces the RP aspect of the game, because the character's combat skills, not the player, not the players should determine the outcome. The less RP the game is the less refined and mass market it is to me.
(FWIW, While I wasn't a big fan of DDO's combat system, that's not why I left. I didn't like the essentially all instanced nature of the game world. I more interested in sandbox/virtual worlds and DDO seems to be the antithesis of that).
I think the opportunity just to pay a one time fee and never have to worry about changing credit cards or forgetting my "secret code" when I want to take a break is wonderful. Price is right also, same as 13 months of 15 dollars a month, or 8 months of SOE's station pass. I think I will easily get 13 months worth of play out of the game considering all the expansions they are planning.
BTW for those who want to ralk about combat there is a nice thread on that over at the LoTRO forums. No need to derail this one.
I personally think that the world of Tolkien is too beautiful and fascinating to be used for increased combats, the main stress should be on roleplay.
And back to the topic: I personally would probably buy the lifetime subsciption at once if the game wasn't from Turbine. When I think of the fate of Archlord *shudders*...
I love the game so far but I don't want to risk that in three months more and more players leave disappointed and the community shrinks so much that I have to leave too. I pretty much think I will preorder but without the lifetime option
I don't believe it's a low on cash thing... Turbine (like them or not) has the LOTR license... fans are going to play it because it is LOTR whether it's good or bad (look at the die-hard SWG fans still playing after Sony butchered that).
IMO this lifetime plan was created for the die-hard LOTR fans only. The average MMO-hopping gamer was not targeted for this deal.
Not all game companies can be Blizzard so they have to come up with something unique to reward loyalty.
(BTW, ever calculate Blizzard's revenues? 6 Million people paying $49.99 for the original game and $14.99 per month for over 2 years before the first expansion came? I can't understand how with that revenue there are not 5 expansions by now and guaranteed server stability. Blizzard is the devil and knows they have their gamers addicted... that's why there hasn't been more available for this game. Geez, the first and only expansion saw people hitting the lvl 70 cap in 2 days... Gonna be a long 2 years at lvl 70 until the next expansion...)
Agreed. This is off-topic but I thought I'd respond anyway...
We'll have to agree to disagree on combat systems. I thought DDO had some innovative ideas but introduced player "twitch" skills into the game way too much (over character skills). MMOs (except a few like Planetside) are supposed to be RPGs after all (not FPSs). The player skill in MMO combat should be knowing when to attack, when to defend, and when to switch targets (not how well they can twitch).
I don't think Turbine marketing has any such designations as dumbed-down or mass-market. They have two good licenses (D&D and LotR) and are trying to design and market games around those licenses.
I played DDO from Alpha 0 (Aug 2005 iirc) through launch and kept trying to improve the game. What killed it for me though was not the different mechanics (combat or otherwise) of DDO vs other MMOs. What killed it for me was Turbine making DDO less and less like D&D with every patch - some fairly major changes from PnP D&D were definitely required but they made many unnecessary changes for DDO (having a knowledge of D&D rules should not be a hindrance to playing a game called DDO). I and others tried telling them so during Alpha and Beta but felt like we were ignored. I was not surprised when it was not a huge success (and did not purchase the game). I really wanted to like it (even trying the 14-day trial a few months ago) but could not. If it wasn't supposed to be D&D, maybe I would have liked it better.
More on-topic...
I've been playing LotRo for the last 1-2 months and am much happier with it. I will probably pre-order it but will probably not get the lifetime subscription. I'd rather pay $9.99/mo than bet that LotRO will hold my interest for more than 20 months (the break-even point) as I've played very few MMOs that long (EQ is the only one so far but CoX and EVE may hit that longevity of play for me).
I enjoy the feel and atmosphere of the game. The quests, combat, etc are similar to many other MMOs but they mostly fit the feel I want in a LotR MMO. I tend to judge games by what they are trying to be (licensed IP games need to feel like the IP, general genre, etc) and tend not to compare games across categories too much (other than general mechanics).
The only things I'm not real happy with feel-wise are the Minstrel and Lore-Master classes. The Minstrel could fit with LotRO use of morale rather than health but it feels too offensive (it was the easiest class to blast my way through the early levels). The Lore-Master feels too much like a mage which should not exist - I'm not sure why Turbine felt they had to introduce this class.
The quests do provide alot of role-play feel (and you can add alot more by interacting with other like-minded players).
What does Turbine have to do with Archlord? I agree Archlord was a dud but it was from Codemasters and not Turbine. Turbine screwed up DDO but that is doing much better than Archlord.
I don't foresee players leaving LotRO in 3 months. At least for me, I see the game holding my interests for up to a year (estimate based on amount of content I think there seems to be) - longer if an expansion comes out.