Girl Gamer Vs. Gamer Girl
Carolyn Koh takes a look at why it's ok to be a Girlie Gamer.
Editorial By Carolyn Koh on January 26, 2007
Carolyn Koh: Girl Gamer vs. Girl Gamer
Carolyn Koh takes a look at why it's ok to be a Girlie Gamer.
Is there a difference between a Girl Gamer and a Gamer Girl? Some suggest that the term “Girl Gamer” is simply a designation of the gender of the gamer and that a “Gamer Girl” implies that the female gamer a hard-core gamer. One that can frag with the best of them.
Pffft. Semantics. I say. But former MMORPG.com Snior Editor Dana Massey took it one step further and called me a “Girlie” Gamer. When Laura Genender and I did a couple of debates early last year, Dana opined that we were perfect foils for each other. As he put it, Laura fragged with the best. She enjoyed beating the boys and shoving their noses into it. Whereas I ran like a girl, threw like a girl and would paint the toe-nails of my character if I could.
“So what if you have maxed xp, your epic armor, weapon, mount and raid 5 nights a week? You carry around two backpacks full of robes and spend all your gold on dye pots!”
/em raises hand.
Umm… guilty as charged. I dress up and put the war paint – er… make-up on when I go out for a night on the town. Similarly, I want my in-game avatar to be a most bodaciously delicious babe with color coordinated sword, shield and armor. Or conversely, the ugliest, jiggliest troll babe with a bone through her nose, with a name like Twinkerbelle or Preshus (and color-coordinated bikini by Omar the Tent Maker).
For our first debate, http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/488 Dana searched out a screen-shot of overly endowed, scantily clad, hyper-sexualized female toons to decorate the article with. Something I encouraged and egged him into doing while chortling with glee over his feeble protests of “Laura will kill me…”
Despite the differences in our gaming styles and the outward manifestation thereof, Laura and I actually found it hard trying to find topics on which we could argue opposing sides. Fundamentally, our beliefs were similar. It was the outward manifestations that were different.
It’s this outward manifestation that makes it hard for some gamers (of either gender) to take the “Girlie Gamers” seriously. After all… how serious a gamer can you be if your armor is pink? Tell you what. When I’m wearing a pink robe, my spells do not do less damage then when I’m wearing a black robe. Just because my armor is dyed a lovely shade of rose doesn’t mean that my +200 uber sword of death dealing isn’t any less sharp, or my healing spells any less powerful. One of the top Necromancers on my server in EverQuest was a woman. She enjoyed dueling and she was even a *gasp* role-player!
Different strokes for different folks, but tell us what you think. Ladies, do you think that your gaming sisters who spent the time to dye their armor in coordinating colors are somehow not as good players as you are? Gentlemen, do you think that the girl with the My Little Pony case mod http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/07/11 is any less a gamer? Why?
I think (personally) a lot of male gamers get hyped up about Girl gamers because it s spark of hope that you (a guy gamer) will be able to find a girl that shares one of your biggest intrests. "And they gamed happily ever after"
I mean.. if you could me a funny, intelligent, good looking girl.. you'd want to go out with her right? Now imagine you met through a MMORPG... Score! :P
anyways, thats my take on it :)
Now THAT is something I'd Love to see!!
A game where you actually decapitate the monster sometimes! I'd pay to play a game where sometimes you lop the head off the monster and it rolls around a bit while the body convulges before collapsing... or even better, in the fight with the mob, as you do battle and dmg you slowly dismember limbs and stuff ... that would rock! Im tired of all the monsters staying in one peice when I attack with my two handed heavy battle axe...
I say... Off with their heads!
Join the group now or keep doing this interesting stuff.
The choice is yours, but meanwhile, XP are rolling around. You're in, you're out! You're call, but this carebear won't stop the XP machine for you! Now if you excuse me, while I write this, I miss my chain pulling and the group is already talking, more pulling, less talking!
Ok, I am a guy. Unshaven most of the time, been fighting with different wepaonry for almost 20 years now, and those that know me know that I am a very nononsense kind of guy. I am not macho... I am what makes macho guys nervous. At the same time... I color coordinate my equipment... My girlfriend (also gamer, but more adventure games and CS) always laugh when I sit with a new character, because the looks of equipment is always more important than the stats, and my credo when playing is "Style is everything". One of the most fun things ever made in any MMO is the character builder of CoH and CoV, and I abolutly loved the thousands of different pieces of clothing and equipment in AO to choose from. So I am pretty much the other side of the coin...
In my world... Its never who you are that matter, or what you are... Its how you are. How you behave and act, your priorities and your principles. I see no difference between someone in a pink armor and someone in a black, it is all in how they behave. I dont think most men worry too much about that either, I never sit and wonder if someone think I am homosexual just because I wear the stuff I like... I dont think lady gamers should worry about that either.
There are lots of idiots out there that just like to throw monkey poo around themselves... There is never a reason in the world to doubt yourself or change your personality just because of those idiots. Ignore them when possible, ridicule them when occation arise, but never... ever.. listen to them.
I guess I never really thought about which kind of Gamer Girl I am... I like to frag with the rest *and* dress my best! I guess that's what this article missed for me, that Girl Gamers can do both and it's really okay. Take the response to the guy who says he coordinates his armour and weapons... a gamer girl wouldn't be considered less of a girl because of the color of her armor, but the guy gamer would. I think Gamer Girls enjoy a kind of freedom in this regard... although the trade-off is the ever tiring, "Are you really a girl?!" Followed by the even more popular "Will you got out wih me?"
That said, in my COH Super Group, we have lots of women. When I have teamed with many of them together, it's apparent that some have a more 'fluffy ' approach the game. Those are usually the youger ones (and are usually daughters of women who are playing a more serious game). YMMV
Game on!
I have gamed with both types of female gamers, and there are some differences I've noticed...
Gamer Girl - Joined game on their own, tend to play as Warriors, Mages and other damage dealing characters. Most competent I ever met was in Lineage one, a 24 year old female who ran a terrrfic sieging guild that I was a member of. She would actually make us train our combat skills on a bi-weekly basis, running group excercises and mock siege warfare. Can't comment much on her thoughts on character looks though, Lineage 1 didn't lend itself to that. Girl gamers are less likely to play the "sex" card in a game, they are more focused on game mechanics and goals, and not about pointing out that they behave a certain way because they are female.
Girl Gamer - Usually joined the game at the urging of their spouse, boyfriend, or other family members. Will frequently play support classes such as healers/buffers and will normally only co-lead a guild with their significant other. One oddity, some women prefer to belong to guilds separate from their partner, I've met several husband/wife teams that play in different guilds. They can be extremely competent at playing their classes, they take it serious, even if they do spend more time working on good looking outfits/weapons. I find this group tends to handle the bulk of the crafting/gathering chores in a guild more often than not, and they make up a larger portion of the female population than gamer girl.
Of course, these are sterotypical observations that don't pertain to all female players. Its just how I've come to perceive female players over the course of many years of MMORPG gaming.
Your results will vary....
I've seen guys pretending to be girls, girls pretending to be guys, guys that worried more about look than stats, girls that did the same. It takes the whole Dress-Up game some kids play to a whole new level :)
On the other hand though, statistically speaking I've seen more girls that sucked than those that could challenge guys. But that's bound to change more and more with the popularity of mmog increasing exponentially with girls.
Although I'd like to add a little something here too... me personally I've noticed in my many years of gaming that of all the role playing gamers out there the ones who ended up being an actual female, were probably one of the best role players of that server. Sticking to character the most and creating quite the innovative story for their avatar as well.
I rest my case...
Hawt girl on girl gaming!
Personally I could care less if someone is male or female, long as they are mature players. As to the difference in the titles, I see no difference.
You failed.
I am a female whos been playing games for years. I like my ingame characters to be evil, deadly and to dress them up in suitably co-ordinated attire. I don't mind dropping some stats for looks because I would rather rely on my own skill and intelligence than the use of uber items.
I also couldn't care less if someone wanted to underestimate me purely because I was a female player (and possibly decked out in a matching pink outfit) - their ignorance is their problem, not mine.
*SIGH*
By the time D&D emerged from Chainmail, the few of us grrls who were playing in places such as the MIT Strategic Games Society found we had an advantage -- women seem to be, in general, a bit better at roleplaying and politics/diplomacy, for those PnP RPGs that had GMs that were creative enough to call for it. Women at MIT often emerged as natural leaders in campaigns in those games. We were also trusted to *creatively* gametest archetypes. Peter Aronson, who created the minstrel (later bard) and illusionist classes in D&D had me run his first minstrel and second illusionist character ever, because he knew I'd go nuts with the "toolset."
Unfortunately, though women can be as adept power gamers, twitch gamers, raid leaders and what have you, I believe MMOs don't call up some of our best characteristics. I find that women tend to be better (and less cheesy) roleplayers, in general, than the guys. We are often better at functions that require empathy, such as leadership and diplomacy. We are often better at stylistics (with obvious sartorial nods to our friend earlier in the thread from CoH/CoV) which support roleplaying and *yes* even leadership. (A person who cares about their style often is also fussy about details and more trustworthy -- it's why business environments insist on proper dress, so that they can eliminate the people who can't consistently pay attention to standards...).
So MMOs aren't the best showcases for the strengths that western culture tends to instill in our women, because MMOs are not flexible, and women who play games tend to be better at adapting to novel conditions. Ah well...
Shava
As Carolyn said, I'm a pretty hardcore gamer girl. I raid 3 to 4 nights a week, I co-lead a guild. I love my gaming, and I love to be able to explore all the content.
That being said, I play a cleric. Not because it's a support class, and I don't want to get up next to the blood, but because I trust my competence more than I trust some PUG cleric I've never met before. A bad healer can ruin any group, while a good healer/tank duo can grab some random DPS and have them set up assist macros. A jaded perspective, I know :)
In the past, I've almost always played tank or healer classes, and if I have a chance to be a cleric type healer (heals AND plate armor) I'll snatch that up in a heartbeat. I like to be a crucial member of any group or raid that I'm on.
Like Kyleran's "gamer girl" example I started off in Lineage I. My main characters there different a little from my norm; I started as a Princess, then a Mage, then an Elf - I ended up settling with the last because I liked the versitility. My Mage was always my siege character, though; Decay Potion was just too invaluable a spell to leave behind.
In terms of armor/weapon appearance, I basically just dye everything navy and then hey, I match!
I did find it very interesting when C and I originally tried to set up a gamer girl debate. As she said, we agreed on almost everything, even though we were such different gamers. I can't even remember how many topics we stumbled through before we finally said "ok, well, I guess I can take that side..."
Let me direct girl gamers here
.
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=21264783
j/king
I don think it's awesome to see girls who enjoy video games.
You trying to start a flame war with the girls, ganon89 ?
I think the majority of us girl players fit somewhere in between both titles. I may dye my armor to match, and swing a sword. Or I may choose another time to be a Cleric, Ranger or Druid. I've played all classes, and played them well because I like a challenge. I can match most guys, although I know there are both girls and guys who can outmatch me. Over time, I've found my niche in being a healer, simply because I do that best.
You just can't draw such rigid distinctions between the genders. The only players I sneer at are the ones who choose silly names, overly girly names, or create huge breasted female avatars. I do suspect those are guys though, hehe.
Annarchy rocks.
And evidently Tycho's niece is not far from the comic character lol
Quite a question! I guess I don't fall on either sides. I was never the best of the best, totally hooked in the game for months or really wanting to become the best... I get addicted to games when I first buy them and then lose interest real quick. I'm not a very "good" gamer, I don't strive to be the best at the games I play. I do it for fun.
But I have gotten into gaming myself, and actually got a few guys into gaming. In MMORPGs I mostly play warriors or rogue types, I hate magic and all that stuff (while I have observed that most of girl gamer friends tend to stick to the mage or healer type).
And I don't spend much time fooling around with the looks of my character, usually: They all look exactly like me.
So I guess I could say I fall on neither side or whatever.
Im a girl (woman actually) who enjoys mmorpgs. I usually play the tank or the destructive caster or my fav, the sneaky backstabbing rogue. I usually do make my toon a female gender but do have a few that are of the male gender. I do care about how I look but I will not and do not sacrifice stats for looks. I craft in every game I play so as a crafter I pretty much have my pick of what colors, style, etc. and yes I want to look good. I dont want to look sexy, I want to look mean and formidable but not with a face that will hurt ya. When the boobies get in the way of seeing your new uber chest armor design, then I have a problem with it.
I have played with some women gamers and I myself see a difference in the type of "girl gamer' there is. Unfortunately, most are the carebear, follow-their-boyfriend, be a healer/support . Most also dont have the gumption to jump in and start swinging. Then you have the other side, the loud-mouthed know-it-all who also seems to make it their business to let gawd and everybody know they are a girl. (BFD btw) yet still allow the others to do the inyourface fighting. Sigh...
Many are shocked that I am in fact a "real girl" when they hear me in vent. I dont broadcast nor really even talk about whether I am a girl or not ingame. It just seems to never come up. The guy gamers however change one hellova lot when they hear my voice. Even though I could be the best damn tank our group has, since Im a girl, its now the GUY tank who is Main Assist. For no other reason other than I have a nice voice in Vent. :P That pisses me off and I usually wont group with them if it continues to happen.
I dont really know how I would classify myself though. Girl Gamer or Gamer Girl. I just play the toon, play the game. I dont care about being the best but I do care whether or not the enemy gets dead. Whether I get the deathblow or not, doesnt matter, one dead enemy. Guys have a problem with it tho. And dear gawd! If you got a deathblow and the other girls boyfriend didnt, you are a POS with the other girl!!!
In real life, I am feminine, good looking if I do say so myself and enjoy my bubble baths and pedicures. Ingame however, I craft to make sure I have the best spellcrafted, tailored, armored, studded, gemmed, potioned and enhanced and not to mention, color-coordinated suit there is and I dont like to stand in the back and let the "guys do it". I will curse and yell and fight with the best of them when I am playing.
I play to be my best. I do enjoy support classes, particularly healers, with usual alts being scout/ranger types and monk types. I try to max out my stats, my power, my power regen, my casting speed, etc. I've lead guilds, I've lead raids.
I hate crafting, but I still give it a go to make my character well rounded and more self-sustaining.
I like the armor to look nice, but utility > fashion.
One of my biggest indulges in a game is housing though - I enjoy decorating a house with what's in game.
My boyfriend plays games with me, but I choose some, he chooses others, and sometimes he doesn't play games I get and vice versa. it's a nice relationship though as we can spend time playing side by side or cheering each other on in the same room while we do our own thing. We're both accepting and supporting of our hobby.
In the end, girls (and boys) play games in the way they'll enjoy it best - gamer girls or girl gamers, it doesn't bother me. If it's the girl kicking your ass in PVP, or the girl following the boyfriend in PVE, it's all good.
Time has been a factor for me so although I love to raid, I gravitate towards guilds with slightly more casual players. For a time in EQ I was part of an all female guild but it died in a server split. We had cool t-shirts one of the girls made for us in RL....
When I first started MMO's, it was hard to be an out gay woman. Homophobic slurs were far to common. It's gotten easier with time. With Vanguard cranking up, I'll be part of a gay guild which will be a first for me. Should be fun. I guess that makes me a girl gaymer!
No offesne but if my girlfriend told me she played computer games I would dumb her azzzz knaw what I mean style. I get righteous that way. Otherwise game on dorkis and remember it might seem like a good Idea to pop the zits but they scar.
This is why you will be single for the rest of your life. Having an attitude like that will get you nowhere and your not impressing anyone.
Now i met my ex GF in DAoC a long time ago, dated for about 4 years till we both agreed to end it due to long distance. Anyway i think its cool to see more and more females playing, some are good at what they do, and some arent. All i know is the next woman i meet, i hope she is a gamer like me.
Now I do always try to play my character to the fullest and best of my ability. One of the biggest compliments I ever got was said during an officer's meeting concerning me switching my main char. He said(his g/f is the support char type) that he couldn't believe I wouldn't be an asset no matter what class I played. Gave me warm fuzzies.
This post is almost exactly how I also recently explained the differences between different types of female gamers to a game developer. I am a female. I have been both types of the above. Yes, there are plenty of females that fit somewhere in the middle. But the above is an excellent representation of the general jist of it. Yes, it's stereotypical, but unfortunately, that's what we see. And like I said, having been on both sides of it, I think I can confidently say there is a distinct difference.
I don't think it matters if your a 'Girl Gamer' or a 'Gamer Girl'. I'm a jock and a tomboy and I prefer to play the direct combat 'role' in MMOs. I like my armor to look like armor but I'll still spend time getting a look I like even if it isn't a girly look or color. None of this makes me 'better' then another gamer, it's just my likes and my style (or lack of it
).
me I play because I love to play.... If I want male attention I'll go to a bar in rl thank you...
chuce..
I realize a lot of people say they don't see the difference, or why it matters, but here is why it matters:
So often in female gaming groups, you'll find some game dev who pops in and wants the "female perspective" on gaming. Now, if you have two different types of female gamers, with a whole lot in the middle, how are you going to give him one general female perspective?
Game companies are constantly asking how to best market to females, but they don't get it through their thick skulls that you can't market to ALL females at the same time because of the differences in opinion.
The problem is that women who actually identify with one or the other of these groups, do not want the other group to be the one to dictate to gaming companies how games should be made to appeal to female gamers, because they feel the other group does not truly represent female gamers.
And that’s why the difference between Gamer Girl and Girl Gamer actually means anything.
I see the differeance but I don't see the big differance. Sure we like different play styles and place different priorities on looks but that doesn't mean woman from both sides can't be excellent gamers or have the same overall views on what a game needs and really any developer that expects a simple single voice on what women like or want from games don't have much common sense and would be likely to build a narrow game with little depth in all areas with that ability to oversimplify.
I don't want to be called out as a Girl Gamer. I am just a gamer. Nothing grates my nerves more than people who make a big deal out of being a female gamer. I see it a lot. Bad to mediocre player comes out of the woodwork waving the frilly girl flag and all of a sudden "so and so is the BEST {insert class here} ever!!" Meanwhile I'm sitting back thinking "Dude, they suck. Everytime they get in group, they wipe us because they can't play their class." Of course, being female, that makes me catty *rolls eyes*
Though it's always funny as hell when those types of gamers come waving their ... "assets"... at me and I have to turn around and say "Thanks, already have my own and they don't play the game for me. /general 'Group looking for 1 {insert that class here}.' Teehee."
Gamers are gamers. Some suck, some rock. I'd prefer to leave the division at that. I've played with some people that are awesome at their class, I've played with some that couldn't find their way to a mob with a map and a seeing eye dog. Male, female, who knows? Who cares? I'm not looking to hook up, I'm looking to kill.
I don't think the two types necessarily do have the same overall views. One type puts more of an emphasis on socializing, for instance, while the other type may put more emphasis on game mechanics. Let's take WoW for example: The girly gamer might want there to be more things to do in Ironforge because she spends much of her time sitting on her rear in IF just chatting with people. Whereas the gamer girl might want to see better rewards for Warsong Gulch pvp marks.
But I DO agree that any developer who expects one voice is definitely trying to over. However, part of that problem is there are certain girls out there who believe they can represent all female gamers. There's one in particular who is a very public person, and is currently running for "Miss Video Game" and personally, I don't think she represents me as a gamer, for example. So marketing people go and talk to girls like this thinking they're going to get the lowdown on how to best market to women. How to get that elusive female market.
Because people in the gaming industry apparently think that 40+ percent of the gaming market (which is what women currently make up) means that they're just not trying hard enough for our gender.
Personally I think they should stop trying to pander to our gender, and just make the damn games.
[snippage for mis posting]
Firstly: a girl being automatically inferior to a guy when playing any class in a mmorpg is completely retarded. Its about practice and time dedicated to playing - not your testosterone levels. Some girls just like to be more social and go out, and so don't dedicate as much time to fighting the same mob...killing everything...waiting for respawn...killing mob...respawn..killing mob...respawn...chasing away some random punter who arrived to cramp your style....killing mob...respawn..
Now that I've got that out of the way, I am going to happily admit that I am a girly girl gamer. I am guilty of colour co-ordinating outfits and flatly refusing to wear others even if they *do* have an amazing stat boost. I almost always play girl toons not because I am all hung-ho FEMALE but because they are often much prettier to look at than the male alternative (DDO anybody?). Lets face it. Style matters, people.
The bit that bugs me is that a lot of people seem to assume that all girl gamers are fat, ugly and covered right down to the toenails in acne. This is ridiculous. I've been on computers since I was 3 years old, have gamed all my life, yet I still dress nicely, have a social life and was even one of those popular bitchy types in high school. (the phase has passed). I'm not a ball of lard, I'd be a..uh..size 4-6 US sizes? And i never had acne. Yet whenever anyone found out I was a girl that was the automatic response I got: "You poor fat ugly pizza face, having to resort to playing games to wile away your sorry existance!" Its a bit silly. Eventually I got a bit sick of all the assumptions so when I joined a guild I stuck a picture up on the guild picture forum and promptly received marriage proposals. The point being: Gamer Girls aren't fat ugly icky blobs. You never know, that girl you check out on your bus every day or that hot pair of legs walking down the street might also be a geek.
I do agree no one person can represent us all.
I personaly like that sterotype. I don't want to imagin the amount of awfull chat up attempts if more guys didn't believe it
whatever did happen to that cali girl who won Everquests Queen Antonia Lookalike competition....
$10,000 modelling contract she got, not bad for someone who had never heard of yet alone played the game... thank gawd for her bf.
Some girls are really good at games but some aren't; the PMS clan on xbox live before the 360 - although nice to look at, lacked gaming skills.
meh.. as long as you have fun, it's all good... although i really detest guys who think they have to "protect these girls" in game.... pffft .. made me kill them even more often
It is semantics. I'm guess I'm not your typical girl gamer/gamer girl in that I like to look nice in real life and in game, so I'll be the one that wishes Vanguard had better robes and armor choices for us females, plus dyes to coordinate our armor and clothing pieces, more hairstyles and such and in the same breath I can frag with the best ,no matter the gender, as well. I actually prefer FPS game play over MMORPG because there is this excitement or rush I get while playing an FPS that I don't get when I play an MMORPG with scripted AI's.
Hehehe...I've wiped out whole squads of guys in games like BF2 and proud of it and did it without armor or aircraft(for those that will scream yea probably used a tank huh) though I can drive and gun a mean Abrams in BF2 when it becomes necessary to deliver the pain.
Almost a 2 to 1 kill to death ration playing BF2 on the infantry only servers. http://bf2s.com/player/79420246/ Which compared to a lot of guy gamers is not all that bad.