The List: Five MMO Wishes
What five things would Jon change about the industry? He counts them down as we make his lists a weekly event.
Column By Jon Wood on June 30, 2009
The truth is that, just like in films, Independent MMOs and Studio MMOs are entirely different beasts. The problem is that they often aren’t treated that way. The press tends to either ignore indies, or put them in the same pile as all other MMOs, the public does the same and often independent developers who get any interest generated will present their game as though it were Studio built without managing any expectations. Be honest about your dev abilities, and charge a lower fee. Show people that there is a viable alternative and they’re likely to try it out.
#2: I wish MMO expectations were better managed
I touched on this a little bit in wish three, but it’s important enough to devote an entire wish to:
;)
No caption necessary
Why does it feel like every single game that is launched these days fails to live up to the massive hype that surrounded their development? The answer is simple: unmanaged expectations.
MMO PR and Marketing departments have become very good at manufacturing a great deal of hype and excitement about their games. So good, in fact, that by the time a game launches, there’s no way that it can live up to the monster that was created by the Marketing department and the word of mouth campaign. The trend recently has been for games to launch with stellar box sales (AoC and WAR) and then fail to retain a vital portion of those players when it comes time to renew subscriptions.
This problem stems from the fact that the first rule of marketing a video game is that nothing negative must ever be publicly said about the game. Because of this, every word that comes from the developers, while not lies, can be quite misleading.
Marketing, however, isn’t completely to blame for unmanaged expectations. There are also word of mouth campaigns started and perpetuated by over-enthusiastic followers of the game in question. These are groups of players who write post upon post in MMO and video game forums raving about the best features of a game without ever mentioning the problems, no matter how small.
The solutions are simple: Developers should be allowed to be honest about their game’s progress, whether it is positive or negative. “Ya know, at launch our PvE system is stellar, but that PvP system we talked about still need some balance. Heavy PvPers may want to wait and pick this game up in 3-6 months.”
Players are going to figure it out eventually anyway, and while managing expectations might seem counter intuitive, it might actually help to retain more players over the long run.
The same can be said for the over-enthusiastic players out there. It’s fine to talk about the best aspects of your favourite upcoming game, but for the sake of those who might follow behind you, be honest and open about concerns that you might have or aspects of the game that might not be so shiny.
;)
Sale for a limited time only
#1: I wish there was a six month phase between beta and launch
It is becoming more and more obvious as time goes on that no MMORPG can be fully considered to be “launch quality” until at least six months into its life, sometimes a year. Look at Age of Conan, which launched without some of the key features even listed on the box. Look at Warhammer Online that was forced to cut four careers pre-launch that made their way into the game over the course of the next year. Look at any MMO that has launched with bugs, missing content, unbalanced systems, etc. and it’s easy to see that “launch quality” and “launched” are not the same thing with MMOs.
My wish is simple. I wish that studios would recognize this gap between development and launch quality and do something about it. I am not, however, without a suggestion:
Here are the sticking points to keep in mind:
From the studio or publisher’s perspective, the game needs to start making money as soon as is possible. Investors need to start seeing a return on their money and the team has most likely just spent 3-5 years working on the game where money was running out way… out. That’s only sustainable for so long so the game has to launch.
From the player’s perspective, games are being rushed out the door and we, as consumers, end up having to pay full price while the dev team works as hard as they can to get the game into the shape that it should have been at launch. Why should we pay full price for an unfinished product?
The solution is simple: Offer players a severely discounted rate between beta and a launch-ready date six months to a year after beta. While players balk at the idea of paying $15 a month for a pre-launch quality product, they might be more willing to accept a fee of $7 to play it in its current state.
Here’s the important part: Dev companies would have to refrain from dialling back the quality of the pre-launch quality product. The post-beta quality would have to stay the same as it is today. Players would also have to accept the fact that while near-fully functional, the game is not launch-ready. They would also have to accept the idea that after six months, their subscriptions would have to go from $7 to $15.
It might seem unreasonable, but that is my wish.
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Wish #1 granted. Aion took extremely long to get the job done, and from my impressions in both beta events I think Aion will be one of the first to launch 99% bug free
Speaking of it... There's an EU Act coming soon that prohibits bugged games on release (both MMOs and console / single player - do those still exsit..?)
A $7 dollar a month paid beta seems like a pretty damned good idea!
how are you qualified to say this:
" See, the initial instinct is to blame the developers, but the truth is that there is an intricate dance happening behind the scenes of an IP MMO between the IP holder and the developers and most of the time, it’s the IP holder that’s doing the leading if you catch my drift.
Generally speaking, the IP holder gets final say on pretty much everything about their MMO, sometimes that’s a good thing, sometimes it’s a very bad thing"
are you knowledgeable about this or are you guessing or using hearsay as you basis?
regardless, i agree with most of your post other than the bit about no more IP MMO. i think they provide alot of lore that mmo's need. people can jump into the game and if they are knowledgeable about the background, they feel more connection to it. while world of warcraft does have alot of lore behind, similar to warhammer, i've never read any of it, and from the solo play aspect of those games (questing), they are indistinguishable. now, a game like SWG, a player can get into and try to become his own version of han solo.
i do want to know if you actually know much about the interactions between developers and IP holders, or were you guessing? what did the intellectual property owners of conan do that influenced the game?
Nice article. I don't have the distaste you seem to for IP-based MMOs though. If a new MMO is coming out called "Death Unlimited", I have no clue what it's about. Is it fantasy, sci-fi, FPS, etc? If a game comes out called Star Trek Online, you'd have to be pretty out of touch to not have an idea what the game is gonna be like.
Also, I agree with what the other poster said about known lore already setting the scene for you from the moment you log in.
The IP holders do get a lot of say in the creation of a game based on their world, and they can nix any concept they don't want to exist in that world. He's not making anything up and it has come out as information in many different instances before. The truth is an IP is nice because it can bring in a sizeable audience based on name alone, but at the same time it is limiting because basic staples, like PvP, can be forced out at the IP holder discretion.
I am a veteran modder myself.
My experience is that is irritating hard and ridiculous to stop newbies from stealing from hollywood. It seems whatever Hollywood make is really interesting for some people, and exciting, so have to repeat whatever is in the movie, in a game. Rarely this end well for modders. Somethimes with lawyers letters...
And is a waste of creative efforts. If you are a creative game dev... CREATE!.. don't reuse other people assets. At the end of the day, if you build your stuff on other guy stuff, *all the stuff* (the one you created, and his stuff) is *his stuff*. You could have created something totally new, *your stuff forever*.
I can understand why studios choose to buy a IP. Is a very efficient trick, buying a "Name" mean you buy instant recognition, and you buy a existing "fan" base. Probably half of the popularity of LOTR is because of teh movies. So It make sense, at short term and medium term, to steal from hollywood. Still is a lame thing to do in the long term. But he!.. on the long term we all wil be dead or deaf or stuff :-)
Heh, you have encompassed my desire for MMO's pretty much in a nut shell. I see some of the reasons that MMO developers don't do some of the things on the list but it strikes me that often times they don't do those things because of money. I could go into detail about what I mean by that but I don't want to write a wall of boring text. lol I would love to add to your list even though you didn't ask for them.
#6. Community Relations and Customer Service actually worked as if every customer could make or break the bank. I've always heard it said that you can gain 1 customer by being a good salesman and then lose 100 by being a bad salesman. I wish that these folks realized that they have as much to do with "selling" the game each time we the players interact with them. Unfortunately a lot of MMO players don't complain with their teeth, which is the money they are spending each month on the game. Sadly we complain on the forums and keep forking over the cash even if the game is not great. (See Darkfail forums)
I can't completely agree with this. If you say "Let's use the exact same crafting system as X", then yes. I think, however, that MMOs are like music in that you're hard-pressed to come up with even one truly original idea. Is your combat going to use random rolls at all? Did you steal that from D&D? You get the idea. Never mind coming up with an entire game that's original.
I'm with you on the no more IP based mmo's.
Aside from the battle over control between the dev and the IP holder there are bigger considerations from the point of view of the player.
They're just too restrictive. An MMO based on a pre-existing IP is always going to be limited in scope in ways that an MMO that has created its own lore is not. If the devs of EvE wanted to put in space dragons you could breed and fly, they could. (Ok yes, if they did it would be the end of the game, but the point is if they wanted to they could.) Look at LoTRO. Great game, spectacular game. Because of the IP though, it couldn't hold my interest for more than 2 months. I've no interest in being shoehorned into a story I'm already very familiar with. With a non-ip game, when you play there is a sense that you never know where the game will take you. With an IP game, chances are you already know.
Plus there is always the hype/disappointment issue. Devs, I think, go the route of an IP because it comes with a built in fan base. Problem is that built in fan base is the hardest group of people to please because they're fans, and they'll be the most vocal if you don't hit the mark eaxctly as they think you should.
I also think that a game where the dev has created their own lore is going to be a game with a much more passionate set of devs.
Am I the only one that noticed you have part of the Comedy MMO article copy/pasted to the end of this article?
Beyond that I mostly agree with you.
Indy games don't have to suck because they are low budget.
Problem with Indy MMOs versus Indy games in general is that Indy MMOs try to hard to emulate the big boys and do too much because the people who play the big MMOs "expect it."
Where as Indy games, normally, are smaller and more targetted and the really successful ones are based off of simple ideas and good old fashion fun.
You don't see Indy studios trying to create the next RPG epic or mega-FPS Halo game. No they are creating games like Braid.
MMO games are way too big for Indy studios to make well unless they try to make a stylized, "different" kind of game that is smaller and more focused.
Kind of like EVE, how'd they get away with it? No content or a "world" just space and ships. They are the Blaire Witch Project of Indy MMOs.
As for IP based MMOs, you have to use an IP that gives you a LOT of room. Like Final Fantasy. Some basic ideas, but everything can be different (and is different) from one game to another and no one cares. Or like Bioware is doing with ToR, set it thousands of years before in their own established IP not the movie one = win
Well, my qualifications were pretty well spelled out for you in the sidebar of the article, but... I've been running this website for the last two uyears, and working here for four. I have worked as a developer on MMOs, and in my position, I learn about the industry and how it functions. That's my qualification.
I was talking about LORE.
Blizzard did it well.. Starcraft was originally a Warhammer 40.000 game, but failed to take the permissions to use the IP or something got wrong.
So Blizzard started created a lore for his game. And on this day, all the lore of Starcraft is really rich, something to be proud of. And a good base to create new games.
If the Warhammer 40.000 IP where used, I am sure that any Starcraft thing sould have been more limited, and new games where forced to pay to games whorshop, so les profit for Blizzard.
Obviusly, the same thing applies to Warcraft and Warhammer Fantasy.
It has been much better for Blizzard to create his own ip, than to take permissions from Games Workshop to use his IP.
The IP of GW is *amazingly* popular. There are shops that just sells GW stuff. Think Apple Shops. But anyway has been better for Blizzard to create his own thing, with his own rules and ideas. On the long term has been much more interesting.
On the other part...
I like Warhammer Online, is fun to read some of the lore bits of it. But much of the fun of the Warhammer Fantasy world is somewhat lost in traslation. For instance... The game is a fight of "Good guys vs Bad guys". And Warhammer Fantasy is not about that. The empire in Warhammer are not the good guys, there are not good guys in Warhammer.
Really there are nice areas in Warhammer Online, and PQ are used to show how the factions operate. The empire area is interesting, and the gobos area fun.
Too bad the whole game whas disfunctional... But I digress...
#6 Better combat style. I've been playing MMO's for many years and I just got board of them. I tried Aion and thought it was pretty but still its not much more than Lineage 2 with flying. The turn based combat in todays mmo's has gotten really boring to me. I want more, I want to be able to hit someone where I want to him him/her, I want to be able to aim my spells and arrows. I don't want to run and have a mob running after me hitting me from 10 feet away. I want more and I'm superised more people don't expect more.
I've played a few betas and haven't really been wowed. I'm hoping games like APB and The Agency and Huxley will show me different. But to also say I've also been getting boared of regular multi-player games where people tend to play stupid and run and gun instead of using real world tactics. I also blame that on the developers for not making games that you can't just run out there and jump like a retard firing your gun hitting with accuracy. You try that in the real world and you'd not only be really inaccurate but you'd also be very dead. Its the devs fault for not making games that are smarter but also the players fault for not demanding smart games. If people stopped playing dumbed down MMO's the devs would get a clue and develop smarter ones, but I guess maybe I'm one of the few that wants to play a smart MMO.
Apologies! Clearly you know what column I used as an HTML template! :(
I was sick of IP based MMOs years ago. They always end up being ass. Conan, Warhammer, D&D, The matrix.... stop the madness! The well of original ideas seems to be dry for too many people. Everyone likes to think they can stamp the name of some IP you like on a box and you will buy it, and sadly it works on so many people.
Personally, as someone who's been online a good long while and was around when the internet was niche and the general public was not connected, I think it's mainly the community that needs changing.
Comprehension, intelligence, and patience are all very rare on the net now since more of the general population are online. Game creators have to package their games and serve them like McDonalds Happy Meals.
Lots of great games get squished mainly due to this phenomenon.
I just don't have the stomach for most of what the general community has to say any longer.
Good article with good points in every wish...
I definitely can't disagree with the thought that most of the recent IP MMOs have failed to deliver, but I think you'd be hard pressed to define the reasons for these failures onto a specific reason (simply them being IP MMOs for example) or even a reasonably small group of reasons shared between all of them. That being said I dun have a problem with IP MMOs based simply on the fact that they are based on a preexisting IP. It's the quality of the game thats gonna make me play. Tho I guess to be honest IPs are a double edge sword... For example.. Hello Kitty Online could be the best MMO ever created but I'll never know, heh.
Wish #1 on my list would be to see the MMOS across the board drop there Prices inline with the Economy. 9.95 a month. I know this is kicking the prices back to late 2000.
Wish #4 is such a coincidence for me. The MMOs that have hooked me for more than six months of basically "ininterrupt" gameplay (I can spend all my free time on that game and still not get tired of it, and I simply can't try any other game either) are - Ultima Online, RF Online and Guild Wars. All fresh IPs.
Now, the new game that has hyped me is Aion and again falls into #4, and damn, that game also offers wish #5, I can spend a day on their 50 sliders to make almost me there. It also touches #2, but that's because I didn't read or listen to anything about Aion until I got to play it in the first beta event, exactly so I couldn't get disappointed (this made a good combo with the fact it was not a known IP in the "you can't be disappointed with what you weren't expecting" aspect).
Yet I understand its potential flaws, such as the usual breach for hacks, bots, RMT and abusing mechanics, but hey, I'll play it while it is fun for me.
Anyway, sorry for my Aion offtopic, very nice article and shows as pretty much true. Known IPs usually have us already with knowledge around the "endgame", we've seen and read it on the major characters eyes, they can't really go and make us play it as a level one noob that will never get to change the world as happens in the IP, you have nowhere near that kind of control over the game, trying to recreate a IP will make failure out of expectations.
Good article.
While it would take an extremely cold day in a very hot place in order for me to create an avatar that even remotely resembles my physical appearance (not that I'm some hideously deformed creature that lives on ho-hos, twinkies, and McDonalds - all of which I despise - but because I just have this "thing" about publishing my name, my face, or anything else about me anywhere on the internet), the point about creating MMOs that are not IP-based is exactly how I feel. I would be positively ecstatic if a game studio - Indie or "big name" - finally produced a playable MMO with a decent story and a decent UI that was not based on <insert major money-making intellectual property here>.
As for the more obvious distinction between Indie and "big name" MMOs, my thought is that if I enjoy playing a particular game, I could care less who made it (and therefore who is getting my money). I enjoy the game for what it is - bugs and all. I do wish, however, that everyone would stop comparing <insert game here> with WoW. Even Blizzard has stated that WoW is not a typical MMO; it's more like a freak of nature. 11 million subscribers (no matter how you come by the statistic) is huge! To my knowledge, no other game has matched that, though FFXI, from what I understand, comes close. But again, these are extreme examples: these two games (out of how many?) are not the norm, and it really irks me when people assume that they are and that a game, in order to be successful, must match these numbers. For the majority of MMOs, the 300k to one million active subs mark is pretty great performance for a title. It would be a wonderful thing, in my opinion, if the majority of gamers and the gaming press kept this in mind.
Great point on managing expectations. I wish that more marketing folks with sit down and talk with (and especially, listen to!) their respective games' development teams. Then they would know that, no, Snuffy can't dual-wield the BFG in a massive PvP ground battle while flying the magic unicorn mount - or whatever it is they're promoting this week.
And I wholeheartedly agree on the point about the time between beta and launch. In the betas I've been involved in, there was maybe 4 to 6 weeks of closed beta, followed by a month of open beta before the game launched - with almost as many bugs as working quests/items/NPCs/you name it. As a gamer, I would much, much rather see companies take the time to get the game right before launching. From my own point of view, if the company tells me that they're pushing the launch back three to six months in order to "polish" the game and eliminate as many bugs and issues as possible, I would be so thrilled I wouldn't know what to do with myself (except maybe take the time to recover from the shock-induced heart attack such an announcement - that a company was putting a quality product over a few more bucks at launch - would cause).
I agree with wishes 4,3,2 and 1. Not so much with 5 as I wouldn't want to cause such mental/emotional trauma on others, lol!
Excellent article, I agree with the main points. I've been in alphas/betas since alpha of Meridian59 "back-in-the-day" gotten pretty tired of the games, just not seeing what I want. Where's the evolution... Same-ol, same-ol... Point about IP's seems to go right along with Hollywood in the sense that they are desperately afraid of taking any chances, so many "re-makes", "re-boots", "re-whatever s". It's not like there aren't literally vaults filled with worthy scripts, it's fear, and lust of the money that keeps things the same. They all are hungry to be WoW. Which frankly aint gunna happen (thank any and all gods for that, one is fine, but no need for another, it's a ok game but just isin't anything so wildly special... Not the holy grail of MMO's just isin't...)
I definitely must also agree with those who mentioned "support", customer support in these games is definitely lacking.
I strongly believe a main point a developer should have in mind in making a MMO is -NOT- to try and create a game, but to create a "world". Plan, and create accordingly. People want immersion in a believable world where they can loose themselves in it.
Oh, and yes specifically dump the level/class garbage, enough already! Skills! Skill based!
You're certainly entitled to your opinion regarding IP based MMOs. However, I believe the solution is not to lower our expectations.
My biggest MMO wish and the reason I think so many MMOs fail is actually a change in the player base from the time of MMO inception. Namely, when MMOs first arrived ( Muds then EQ1 ), the players drawn to these games were table top roleplayers ( D&D, Shadowrun, etc etc ). These folks knew that what made the games fun was character development and roleplaying--not levels, skills, linear quests but an open game world where the creative player could create his own world. As time has moved on, it seems to me that today's players don't understand or aren't interested in the true "roleplaying" aspect of online games anymore. This is unfortunate, because it takes games to a higher level. The MMO makers have adapted to this lead em by the nose mentality and dumbed down the games. All that being said, my wish is for a new level of gaming awareness of the players. SWG was the last great MMO--genuine player communities, lives within a game made it great.
you know #1 is sorta in play with the IP LoTRO, it released witha "founder" rate of 9.99 and that persists as long as you subscribe but un sub for one month and...whoosh 14.99
Wish #5 was granted by Star Wars Galaxies. You could even mod your avatar at any time by visiting an Image Designer. Gosh, I miss that game aspect. No one else has come even close to that level of character detail as far as I know. Too bad the game sucks now.
Wishes in order.
1) Sci-fi based MMORPG/FPS sandbox/ with space flight- skill based - no levels.
2) Sci-fi based MMORPG/FPS sandbox/ with space flight - skill based - no levels.
3) Sci-fi based MMORPG/FPS sandbox/ with space flight - skill based - no levels.
4) Sci-fi based MMORPG/FPS sandbox/ with space flight - skill based - no levels.
5) Sci-fi based MMORPG/FPS sandbox/ with space flight - skill based - no levels.
1). Longer leveling - At least 50 days played to reach Max level for hardcore players. Which would mean 200+ days played for the casuals hopefully more.
2). Raid empahsis - Actual progression raiding where guilds can differentiate themselves from poor slower or less skilled guilds.
3.) Complicated well done combat and classes - Where skilled players and groups. No dumbing down of the game for the simple casual kiddie players.
4.) Well developed crafting system - Community projects like Horzons, well done mechanics like Vanguard, developed housing system like Horizons, and actual need for crafters at high end.
5A). Reputation matters - A community based game where poor reputation hurts players.
5B) Dynamic content - The world changes doe to player actions. Similar to the vision of Horizons which never was developed. Where mobs can take over player towns, move their camps and be driven from areas.
I agree with all but #4.
My #6 would be: Why is the Sandbox MMO being abandoned?
I'm in agreement with the entire list, though I would've put the no-IPs at number one. MMOs are the worst thing that can happen to a beloved IP, because at the end of the day, all of these games are the same, and the financial pressure is such that pre-existing stories and lore are shoe-horned into FedEx and Kill Quest-driven games, which cheapens the experience immeasurably.
I'm hard-pressed to think of an example better than SWG. That game died for true SW fans long before the NGE. It made a laughing-stock of the existing continuity from launch.
God forbid anyone ever makes a Dune or Song of Ice and Fire mmo, they will be similar abominations when compared to the source material.
Until developers and investors tire of their directed-experience tendencies, I'd like for them to keep their greedy hands off of stories that I care about.
I wasn't literally talking about lowering expectations. That was just an amusing photo. I was actually talking about managing expectations.
That's a great point, and a feeling that I've had for some time but haven't been able to articulate as you've done here.
Unfortunately I think the cat is out of the bag, and those days are gone. People are addicted to the false sense of accomplishment/stimulation granted by newer games, and as a wider (i.e. less nerdy) audience has embraced mmos, the number of people wanting a world first and a game second has decreased dramatically.
I fear the only way you'll get your wish is to return to tabletop, or private roleplaying servers.
While I don't really care about #5, I agree with the rest of the article. Nicely written and very true.
my wish list is pretty simple. just one thing i want.
RETURN DAOC TO THE GLORY DAYS!!!
/pray cmon daoc2 and dont screw it up mythic.
I think the pre-sales of games to get into Beta already accomplishes your wish #7. In theory pre-sales will give publishers a good idea about whether or not they should continue to fund the game if required, and if they're only $5, that's a lot less than the proposed $42 your 6 months of beta adds up to.
Otherwise pretty good points.
I enjoyed this article, as I like seeing others with the same idea's as myself. IP based MMO's died in my mind when I heard the development of MXO. I mean MXO is not something that should even be thought of in a MMO universe, that's purely a FPS game that should have RPG gameplay much like Mass Effect. However, like you stated, and you probably know this first hand like myself. We indy developers never have the funds that Studios such as Blizzard, SOE, and EA can put forth. It's saddening to think there is a massive amount of pure original idea's being wasted in indy development that ends up being canceled or distorted and never implemented to it's original purpose.
However then reality sets in, the gaming industry has taken a leap into the monopoly of the power of money. And it's become so massive that creativity has not just yet flown out the window, but management budgets are being cut left and right so that gross revenue goals can be achieved. There are a few games that stick close to my heart that were created by indy makers and yet delivered a true original game, Funcom's "Anarchy Online" and Reakktor's "Neocron". I'm a sucker for the sci-fi based gaming idea. And both games certainly delivered, but yet due to budget cuts have been further development wise destroyed. Hopefully the few new original games that I see upon the horizon such "Black Prophecy" and "Mortal Online" will prove us all wrong.
All in all though, great article, was a good read and I agree on your wish list.
The IP holders do get a lot of say in the creation of a game based on their world, and they can nix any concept they don't want to exist in that world. He's not making anything up and it has come out as information in many different instances before. The truth is an IP is nice because it can bring in a sizeable audience based on name alone, but at the same time it is limiting because basic staples, like PvP, can be forced out at the IP holder discretion.
how are YOU qualified to say that?!? do you have an instance you can actually show someone so they can read it? i'm not trying to be an ass here, maybe this has happened in every mmo based from an existing franchise, but.... i can't remember any.
do you have any links? even a specific thing that you clearly remember and IP owner forcing into a game that a dev didn't want to do or had done a different way?
i reiterate my question, are you guessing or basing your opinion off hearsay? do you have any credibility on this topic or just opinion? not trying to be overly agressive here, but i am tired of posts like yours, which claim "Truth" but are full on conjecture.
My comment on the part about using established IP's: for the most part I agree with you. Champions Online is a little bit of an exception though, since they purchased the IP and are therefore free to change it if they wish.
Well, my qualifications were pretty well spelled out for you in the sidebar of the article, but... I've been running this website for the last two uyears, and working here for four. I have worked as a developer on MMOs, and in my position, I learn about the industry and how it functions. That's my qualification.
of course i'm not attacking your credentials for wrting articles about mmos.
i was wondering how do you know what you are claiming as truth is justified. does GamesWorkShop get alot of input on warhammer? the people who own conan? does george lucas influence star wars games? what are these "very bad thing"?
i like these IP MMO games. tabula rasa...not so hot. ip mmo or not doesn't make or break a game.
how are YOU qualified to say that?!? do you have an instance you can actually show someone so they can read it? i'm not trying to be an ass here, maybe this has happened in every mmo based from an existing franchise, but.... i can't remember any.
do you have any links? even a specific thing that you clearly remember and IP owner forcing into a game that a dev didn't want to do or had done a different way?
i reiterate my question, are you guessing or basing your opinion off hearsay? do you have any credibility on this topic or just opinion? not trying to be overly agressive here, but i am tired of posts like yours, which claim "Truth" but are full on conjecture.
So nice to see people creating new accounts just to go trolling by a fresh name.
You'll never see on the record proof of it. The official party line is always going to be: Company X (the license holder) has been great to work with. The truth is though that there are standards that have to be upheld. This is just common practice with ANY property. LucasArts, for example are notorious for being very hands-on with their products, toy, TV, comic book, video game, whatever. I know that Mythic, for example, worked very closely with Games Workshop and that Turbine works with Tolkien Enterprises, Cryptic works with CBS, the list goes on. It's a partnership between the developers and the licensers.
I agree with most of your points, but IP MMOs. IP MMOs have been some of the best games in the MMO market. Such as Star Wars Galaxies, Lord of the Rings Online, and The Matrix Online. I'm still hoping for a Transformer G1 or G.I. Joe G1 MMOs. Most IPs from movies, books, and TV shows with two factions or more, make perfect sense to turn into a MMO. Who would not like to live in their favorite movie, book, or TV show? I know, I've always have liked the idea.
You'll never see on the record proof of it. The official party line is always going to be: Company X (the license holder) has been great to work with. The truth is though that there are standards that have to be upheld. This is just common practice with ANY property. LucasArts, for example are notorious for being very hands-on with their products, toy, TV, comic book, video game, whatever. I know that Mythic, for example, worked very closely with Games Workshop and that Turbine works with Tolkien Enterprises, Cryptic works with CBS, the list goes on. It's a partnership between the developers and the licensers.
Why shouldn't they be hands on with their IPs? MMOs are just the nest step in marketing synergy. Its a way to let cusomers experience the IPs in new and different way. I for one see nothing wrong with it at all.
That's a great point, and a feeling that I've had for some time but haven't been able to articulate as you've done here.
Unfortunately I think the cat is out of the bag, and those days are gone. People are addicted to the false sense of accomplishment/stimulation granted by newer games, and as a wider (i.e. less nerdy) audience has embraced mmos, the number of people wanting a world first and a game second has decreased dramatically.
I fear the only way you'll get your wish is to return to tabletop, or private roleplaying servers.
Yeah, I feel the same. And agreed, it was well put. Also explains why my mmo subs are down to just EvE and that just cause I can still advance without playing. Miss the community dynamic. I think the de-emphasizing of community is whats hurting the industry (imo). The way I see it is, ya a lot of current players don't care for positive player interaction, crafting, rp, community building, etc... and thats fine, but what they fail to realize is that the people who like that stuff are the kind of people who make a game fun to play in. To my way of thinking its what separates mmos (I like) from rpg's with multiplayer (not so interested in) which I think are becoming the norm.
Great article, you hit the biggest issues head on. Please devs, stop releasing unfinished, unoriginal WoW clones.
This is probably the worst article ever available on this site.
The suggested solutions are terrible ideas and several of the wishes show signs of disconnect between the writer and the community he...ugh...represents?
It might seem harsh, but that is my feeling.
I love some of this thinking, and it's nice to hear it coming from someone connected to the site. I agree that a lot of the innovative stuff can come from indy companies. In fact, one of the most promising games I'm testing at the moment is open source. It's about people who love games making them for other gamers. I like that mindset. It's not corporate. Good. Not everything in this life needs to be about chasing the dollar. In fact, if it is, I think we've missed something.
I also like the comments on IP games. They have too much hype, and the expectations are hard to even come close to. They also seem to get latched onto by the suits who just want to turn a profit ASAP, and damn the quality and customer satisfaction.
I love the idea that devs should be allowed to speak honestly about the state of the game. Really I think a communication manager should handle that to avoid mixed messages, but honesty is the real key. People aren't as stupid as some of the suits appear to believe. We know, for example, when features listed on the box are not actually in the game. We know, also, that something isn't working, even if a CSR tells us that it is. Just be straight with people. Don't insult their intelligence. Doing so is a sure way to lose them, and ten of their friends, possibly for life.
About paying a reduced early bird price for a post-beta, pre-polished game, I can understand the thinking behind this. It seems based on a premise I'm not sure I fully accept though: that games must be released in a partially functional state. Remember when the Edsel was shipped to Ford delearships in an incomplete state? Well even if you don't remember it, you can read about it. Many MMOs hit the market in the same shape, and receive the same kind of reception, deservedly so. What does this require? Patience.
For a game to be successful in the long term, I believe it needs to be finished and polished upon release. Long term success requires front-end investment to ensure a high level of quality. Those that look to WoW as having some kind of winning formula should focus first, I believe, on how good the game worked at release. Working games are fun games. Fun games attract and retain customers. These customers tell their friends, who then become new customers, and so on, and so on.
A successful launch of a polished game can create an avalanche of positive momentum. A broken release, on the other hand, digs a hole that a game may never get out of (e.g. Tabula Rasa, Vanguard, StarWars Galaxies). My wish for MMOs would be that companies take the time needed to ensure a successful release.
You had me at hello...
I mean....the picture.
Just as an fyi, two of the IP MMOs you've mentioned were absolute disasters, and one's closure was recently announced as a result. The other is having the IP given to a competitor, who will hopefully do a much better job.
IP's tie into that expectation factor I think. They also seem to be viewed as cash cows by corporate investors, who then seem to push for an early (and broken) release to begin turning a profit as soon as they can. Greed, impatience and hype make for poor MMO releases imo.
If someone could manage to take the time needed for a good IP release, maybe we'd see this trend shift in a more favourable direction.
<to the theme of TOTP's>
5. Making Me - CoH was the nearest I ever got to making ‘me’ and yes it was a good feeling. I loved the idea of the theme music, some games like LotR allow you to play your own though, which is close enough.
4. IP MMO’s: The wish list often wants MMO’s to sort out problems that our wider society cannot sort out, IP’s are one of them. IP’s cause these problems as books become films and so on. Increasingly you won’t get your MMO, film, or book financed without an IP behind it.
3. Big and Indie. MMO’s are in an industry, again same problems with indie films etc, nothing can be done about it.
2. MMO Expectations - We live in a Age of Hype. It is everywhere from politics to MMO’s. Nothing negative must ever be said about our product be it a new tax or new MMO. MMO’s are not going to be able to make a stand here, how could they?
1. Beta’s and Launch - I liked the idea of a reduced starter subscription, but can see problems when the company announces the subscription is going up. No matter how much more ‘polishing’ has been done.
Wish 2 and wish 1 now those are good ideas. I think we will naturally see more managed expectations now, after the WAR and AOC hype-bomb explosion last year, but a reduced subscription at first "launch" now that would encourage me to play alot more mmo's.
I agree. I'd pay for it, and I think that developers would be surprised how many others would.
Regarding your comment about indie companies:
They are often prone to more bugs, less content, lower quality graphics and a host of other issues that make them seem inferior
I dont know what you mean with seem inferior. All of those things you counted, except maybe more bugs, make an MMORPG more inferior since they are an integral part of any computer game, not just MMORPGs.
So most indie MMORPGs are inferior and that is simply because they have fewer, and probably less paid, people working on them so naturally the quality will be worse. However I totally agree that innovativity comes from the independant indie companies, however for the titles they release to be successful they will eventually need the resources to fully realise their innovation and that is where, hopefully, big companies come in which are willing to invest in innovative ideas.
Problem is finding such company, specially considering that the most profitable MMORPG ever is not the least innovative but rather take the staple ingredients of many different MMORPGs and present it in an easily accessible package for casual players.
Also just because a game is developed by an indie company does not automatically make the game "good" . Darkfall is an excellent example of a really low quality MMORPG with severly outaded gfx engine and horrible UI, obviously designed by someone with little or no professional experience in creating UIs.
I agree. I'd pay for it, and I think that developers would be surprised how many others would.
I have paid for it at the launch of most MMOs. Even the great "World of Warcraft" had bugs and was shaky its first six months out of the gate.
additionally, Most games DO have a test server for new patches, so if you subscribe and play on the new content/test server that is exactly what you would be doing. So your wish is granted. Go Go Go!
These wishes to in the article to me seem to basically boil down to "I want to play in a generic mmo world with no expectations and hype" .
I feel quite the opposite. Playing IN a game set in star trek with Klingons is so much easier for me to immerse myself in than the "Kuyahsi" who happen to look similar to Klingons.
As to setting a target/hype and failing to live up to it. If the alternative is to say you are going to produce mediochre games and then do so, I'll take the hype. At least then you got a shot of it being something other than "And in this game, you grind endlessly and ride around on mounts like every other damned game".
At least with hype, you have a chance they will come through on some of it.
So often I see games where they promise "More of the same" or add one little feature, but otherwise its the same old "Pick a Warrior, Mage, Rogue or Healer, go forth and grind, return to vendor, repeat."
So my wishes are as follows.
1- Merge more strategy with my MMO, but not to the point I have to be on all the time!
Most games that involve strategy, have you building this carefully crafted little empire, nurture it, do all this stuff, then when you get out of 'protection' you are swallowed up by the players who have been online 20 hours a day and play constantly.
I'd like to have an arena for those people, and a way for casual players to be grouped together. (Average the amount of hours you spend online, as you spend more time, you get bumped further and further into the deeper/murkier tiers, so the same amount of play time (give or take) was invested).
2- Take a lesson from Sims 3
One cool thing Sims 3 does is feature its users, and feature the things they do/created.
So in your game, if I kill the dragon, it will re-emerge in 15 minutes when it respawns, okay fair enough. You don't want to remove content from your game, I will grant you that.
However, 'feature' me and the things I do on a webpage if I do something really exceptional and heroic (or villainous)
3- More bad guys!
I want to be an evil overlord, assasin, demon-master, ninja pirate (not neccesarily in that order).
I am so sick of "Okay, you can play a Warrior, Priest, Rogue or Mage". LET ME RP AN EVIL OVERLORD.
It sucks a game like Overlord 2, is so arcadey/bubble gum. Give me an MMO where I get a little tower at the start of the game and some minions. I then go explore a little elwynn forest type region and go back to my pocket-dimension where my tower is (no other players unless I permit them). In that tower zone, my people build statues to me and slave to fufill my desires. If I conquer something and bring it back, it goes in my trophy case. Let me have a little base at the START, and let me play something 'cool'.
4-Let me create more content!
Too busy to make new stuff for us world of warcraft developers? (counting your money I guess). Let me make my own. Build your game so I can add adventures and create RP Scenarios.
City of Heroes got this half right. They wanted people to not make farms though, yet the only thing you can do is spawn enemies. There are no "If this happens, then do this.." choices to make in their adventure creator, so what did they expect other than "Kill more enemies" missions?
5- Chuck Norris
Thats right, my final wish is for a Chuck Norris IP MMO.
In this game, you play as a young Chuck Norris, Mister T, Vin Deisel, or one of a dozen internet meme like characters. Your first scenario; You must make your time, Gentlemen, all your bases are belong to (us) and you have to go get them back.
A Humorous MMO that would not take itself seriously, but would be more than a diablo clone with a little irreverant humor.
Great write up. Some excellent wishes. I'd like to know how much influence articles (and the wishes within) like this have on the industry. I'd like to get some responses from game companies to these wishes.
Point 5: Customisation is definately something that's missing in alot of areas. I'm not after being the next Han Solo, could never be that ugly if I tried. If you wanna get the looks, go for Jabba, and least he has a harem.
Point 4: Depends on the IP. Warhammer had it chance yet failed for our group, we started in the beginning and went through to launch. Then it all fell apart with their ignorances on ignoring all the people in the Beta Forums saying it was unbalanced. BYE
IP's such as Star Trek really have a good chance to flourish, but am I playing B5, DS9, oST, Voyager, etc. I bet they never thought of having different servers and timelines to cater for each. Then they'd be successful even if 50k on each.
Another would be D&D. If Hasbro would fuck off, and allow D&D to get back to what it was, "Worlds that you create" then this could've been the biggest boom of MMO's since man first discovered fire! Why is it so hard for the IP owner to stay out of the kitchen and kill their own product?
I was reading an article on Interstellar Marines and how they're heading down the community owned road for launch. Why not us the players get a chance to invest in the game itself, hell for $50 month, it would be a nice superanuation fund. Besides with something like D&D the community would be given a chance to invest in more servers if the game was made properly.
How many Modder's out there have been slapped in the face by their childhood loves' lawyers, too many sadly. I'm sure if an idea like Wikipedia can get donated millions, so too can a smart MMO Dev.
Point 3: Oh the bain to the growth of the industry, to be sure. I bet the matrix producer had as hard a time selling the idea to their investers as do any indie!
How do you sell a cake that you haven't made it yet. Simple, make a sample and give them a taste test, that's what indie's do since day dot.
For me the problem lyes with the investor or the dick with the wad in the first place. They want more wads and I'd prefer to hand over $5 for a good indie game (usually buy a few per year) than hand over $100 plus monthly fees for something not worth pissing on.
Players need to get over the gloss of that awesome graphic hype. Stop listening to the rants of online based crytics such as IGN, Gamespy, etc. They are only after money themselves. When was it that the mags or those sites gave money back to the industry, ever?
Point 2: Lemmons. Nothing worse than buying a lemmons. Yet people get burn't each day by those salespeople who sell those dodgy cars worldwide, why?
Edumacation, people take the hype as fact, instead of saying to those MMO Devs, okay so if your game is so good, let me download it try it out for 15 days for $5 and then you'll give me a $5 discount off the retail price when I stay around.
Being honest, why would that Dev be honest about a product that'll sell a million copies at launch no matter how good it really is. After launch of warhammer, against our petitions, we had a 300+ group say good bye when things actually got worse.
So how can this be, the product isn't working, the people aren't happy, yet their online. The problem stems from the customer. Our only option is to walk away and loose our doe. The whole business model of MMO's is wrong, sure it makes money, but so does the local milkbar. Yet those milkbars are still selling milk long after the Matrix went offline.
The only way this is gonna change is if the players call the Devs on their systems and say this isn't good enough. They'll change eventually or go out of business like Black Isle did.
Point 1: I think this is an area that has made people going back to wow even more obvious. The players out there get sucked up by the hype, and say oh well, mum & dad will give me the money to play the next new thing.
Reading a few articles of late and a few key industry people have already started talking about how things are being changed. Well time will tell, I'll believe it when I see it but one thing is for sure, 90% of the people I know play WoW cause there's nothing better yet. Each of them jump onto the next new thing, get dissappointed and go back.
So the player is the one creating this problem I reckon, rather than the Devs. All the Devs can do is try something new yet they follow the same rules as the devs they're competing against.
The reason Blizzard, EA, Atari, etc. are in their current position is the way they started out. If you're a dev, do what they did and look at making something creative, different, hopefully you'll be honest with your clients and you'll end up with more than just figures to gloat around of how big your support base is. Forget your bank account as the reason you need to be like the big boys. It ain't gonna get you there. A good game on the other hand may.
I agree, half the fun of creating something is the cycle of finding that new idea. Without the journey there can be no enjoyment!
Because of the size of most MMO's like WoW, if you have crafting, they say your creation is like wow. Bah, grow up and play something for what it is, not because your friends said it was cool, or there's every wanker on the planet playing it!
As for Modding, what ever happened to all those games with moddable communities. I think alot of the industry's woes are because they forgot to be flexable and allow the players to enjoy as well add to their product.
Was a big fan of NWN (Neverwinter Nights) until they made #2 and fobbed the mods off. Idiots...
Great article Jon. Pretty much covered all the top issues in one article.
People crack me up defending IP MMO's. There are so few good ones that it has to be evident to anyone that they all have huge issues.
That is why I have very skeptical of what Bioware is doing with the new Star Wars. Lucas Arts destroyed SOE's star war's because of a complete misunderstanding of the genre, what is to prevent the same from happening with this title?
Warhammer was doomed from the start, Games Workshop is as bad as Lucas Arts. Anyone buying an IP from them needs to have their head examined.
The only IP that I can see that has been half successful is Lord of the Rings and that game suffers because of the lack of real pvp. Which was defined by the IP.
As to Indy games, all we have to do is look at Darkfall to see a game with a lot of possibilities get lots of negative press because of: A. over zealous fans making ridiculous claims and B. Aventurine choosing a very inept spokeperson.
If I had one wish to add, it would be for some of these developers to not think class/level is a prerequisite to a good MMO. I would like to see more innovation in this area.
With six pages of discussion, I simply don't have the time and pacience to read it all, so I'll make my comments only about the five wishes of Jon:
Wish #5: That's my wish #1. I generally play conventional RPG for this same reason, and I really regret I can't make myself in a MMORPG. But
Wish #4: I can't totally agree with you, because I believe that some IP are just the perfect fit for MMOs. Lord of the Rings is one example. The fact is that the amount of work needed to make an IP MMO that meet the expectations is huge, and rarely a studio have the time and money to do that.
Wish #3: I don't agree with you in that point. Independent projects have their charm in the movies industry, but indy MMOs don't. Specially because they're trying to be studio MMOs. An independent movie have a diferent focus from a studio movie, and that doesn't happen in the MMO industry. The indy MMOs should work to bring the atention of the studios, not the gamers.
Wish #2: That I totally agree with you. Every game lauched try to be the best in every aspects of MMO genre, instead of being original and focus in one aspect.
Wish #1: In the old days, games aren't released until finished. My Sonic 2 wasn't. Why it should be different today?
So, its obvious you have no interest in Jumpgate Evolution.
My wish would be for developers to create an MMORPG that did not heavily favor those who have far more free time than I do to play these games. Selfish I know, but I'd still like to find one.
Fortunately, EVE's pretty close in this regard, so I'm not suffering too badly.
Great Read!
With respect to games based on existing IP's, I both agree and disagree. The development side of my brain thinks "that makes sense, managing large IP's is often times a disaster waiting to happen", but the fan side of me says, "hell yeah, I want to see more good MMOs based on things like Star Wars or Star Trek".
I totally agree with proper management of expectations. Currently, it's heavy-handed and one-sided. The trouble with that is that being honest about game features sounds good, but if it's not supported with a proper release date based on those discussions, it becomes a disaster. Unless investors are willing to have these frank discussions with a growing fan base and support it with a release date that makes sense to correct the issues, it creates more problems.
I guess its about overall mindset and company philosophy when it comes to this sort of thing. This is exactly why Blizzard Entertainment is on top of the food chain in terms of quality of product, and most every other MMO developer/publisher is scratching their heads. It should not be rocket science to release a product that is actually complete and mostly problem free.
Just as an fyi, two of the IP MMOs you've mentioned were absolute disasters, and one's closure was recently announced as a result. The other is having the IP given to a competitor, who will hopefully do a much better job.
IP's tie into that expectation factor I think. They also seem to be viewed as cash cows by corporate investors, who then seem to push for an early (and broken) release to begin turning a profit as soon as they can. Greed, impatience and hype make for poor MMO releases imo.
If someone could manage to take the time needed for a good IP release, maybe we'd see this trend shift in a more favourable direction.
Why is LOTRO: SoA a disaster? The recent expansion (Mines of Moria) has been a truly backward step in all sorts of ways, but SoA was a very nice example of using a rich IP to create a very satisfying MMO... and it was reasonably faithful to the IP, with the emphasis on was.
#1 can be done in perfect world.
So, its obvious you have no interest in Jumpgate Evolution.
My wish would be for developers to create an MMORPG that did not heavily favor those who have far more free time than I do to play these games. Selfish I know, but I'd still like to find one.
Fortunately, EVE's pretty close in this regard, so I'm not suffering too badly.
I think what she may want is what I'd like and thats a game with space and land fighting. You can land on a planet and do missions as well as space flight ones. I don't know why its only one or the other, when both is better.
This is what I mean about us expecting so little. In the US we're behind in a lot of tech because we expect so little. Asia is coming out with some good MMO's (Mabinogi Heroes, and C9 to name two) and they send us their crap, why? Because we expect so little of our gaming and tech. We don't say "we want better" so we keep getting the same cookie cutter MMO's, over and over and over. They put flight in it...like Aion...and we're WOW, cool! Like when Apple finally put cut and Paste and video in the iphone, everyone is "cool this is so much better". Put a few new things in a game and people go nuts...why? I have no idea why. I look at it and see it for what it is, laziness, laziness because we don't expect better.
Again i point to LoTRO. Founders paied 10 bucks and that stays until you break subscription. They never said it was "a break because the game just launched and isnt perfect" but it does fill the role, doesnt it?
Very good article indeed.
I would like to add one wish - not just to MMOs but to gaming in general. Stop the PRE-orders. Stop them now ! ATM the gaming industry is allowed to throw out all kinda crap that ppl have bought 4 months in advanced because a PR campaign.
Lets remind ppl about AOC and Funcom's number one slogan for one of their financial report. "The message is PREORDER NOW!" Nothing else mattered. This was everytthing their entire campaign turned into. Sell as many copies before ppl actually realise how bad it is. And who cares if we screw over like 1 million ppl ? "it's only a game"
Recently China banned selling of artificial items. Why not ban preorders ? Most of them are giving out extra this and extra that because someone payed in advance.
How about we actually start to see one single gaming company that stands by its product AFTER it is released instead of then coming out and saying... we will fix it in next year or so...
My big wish for MMOs. Do less but do it well.. then add to it. There is no need to run a gazillion quests and billion diffrent zones at launch. If ppl like the concept - AND the game has a good and solid code - the rest can be added to and expanded. ATM thats not how it is.. atm its more like - "HELL lets throw this all out and we fix some of it when we get money from the nutters that actually bought the PR stuff"!
NO thx - I hope MMO gamers are becoming abit smarter. If not then I - and hopefully 1000s more old MMO custimors will be around to remind everyone what "gaming" has turned into.
Awesome list! I appreciate your evaluations and really agree with your thoughts! Hopefully some of the developers out there will stand up and take notice...
#2 is a big one imo,Games like War and Aoc mite have been swallowed better if they had not hyped it so bad. Good games IMO but they did not live up to the H Y P E they created. They would be better of in the long run doing "this is what we got so far, this is what we would like to do/planning, and heres where we are at..not this Game is AWSOME Play IT! and honestly I think Bioware/SW:tor is getting the idea, all the interviews I have seen they wont hype a thing about the game but instead comment on this is what we have and this is what we are doing,and this is what we are planning atm,if its not in game we are not going to hype it, the have even been modest about their combat system saying its not ground breaking. anywho sorry fer ramble, not the place here. yall get my jist :).
For the few of you posting about the older days of MMO's and roleplaying, and wanting a world, maybe take a peek at Metaplace
it's a complicated thing to describe for me, but i think that game has all aspects for MMO's that a roleplayer might like.
www.metaplace.com
::edit, no, it didn't change::
Nice points.
I just want the game to be fun and enjoyable. For me, this means improving combat.
MMOFPS is the way I want to be playing games in the future, and I'm looking into Global Agenda for that reason...
Space flight combat - much like Star Wars: Rogue Squadron (or any of the many other games... I can't remember the name of the older ones) - would be pretty great, although I'd prefer it with both flight and ground combat.
In fact, you know what? I'd like a game that doesn't restrict cooler, perhaps BETTER combat.
Way back when I played World of Warcraft, there was no mounted combat. Why not? Why couldn't we run up to someone and attack them, or at least auto-attack them? Why can't I shoot with a bow while moving? Why why why? Mostly just pvp issues, I suppose, but so many things just don't make sense!
If I were a mage, I'd probably work a little harder on concentrating and meditation to cast spells, rather than having to stand still while conjuring up a fire ball or some other pitiful excuse for a spell.
Finally, I want a visually enhanced feeling of power when I do things with higher damage. That was one of my larger faults with, guess, World of Warcraft. I had a level 1 mage and a level 80 mage both do a fireball at something. Same. Animation. And Models. Yawn.
So yeah, I ranted. Take that, world. *shakes fist*
One thing I wish you had mentioned was the level grind... the senseless, mind-numbing, continous killing for XP's that gets us skills that have no relationship to how we gained them. I would prefer learning skills by using them... and having an experience level in each of the skills. Thus, whether it be crafting or combat, or whatever... you use it, you learn and develop in it. Also, the use of real time to thottle people from gaining abilities too fast (as in EVE Online, but not quite). But in the same light, be able to do certain things (like crafting) while offline. I personally believe that time-sink oriented game designs are a thing of the past, since the number of active subscribers seems to count more now a days anyway.
#4: I wish they would stop making IP MMOs
I think Red 5 Studios is your answer. Some of the WoW creators left Blizzard to start this company and are currently creating an MMO that no one has a clue about right now, though it sounds like we are close to hearing about their project .
www.red5studios.com/en/
EA is a cannibal, I have no idea where you got the idea that it was vegetarian.
May BioWare take care of Mythic better than a Red-Headed-Step-Child.
Good article, although
Even if it sounds like a good idea, on paper, there would be too many issues.
1) It could lead studios to publish less polished games. With the motto you get what you pay for.
2) It could allow the devs to do major changes to the game.
3) How about transferring characters from gamma or even delta version to release?
All in all the point is to publish fully polished games.
Thing is until you let thousands of players experience the game for months you have no way to know how the game will evolve and so where you will need to focus on.
The 5 Wishes:
Make Me: CoH/V has a great character creator, ChampO and APB promise even better ones. Next.
Stop Making IP MMOs: You'd have a point if Ultima Online and WoW weren't genre touchstones. There have also been 'original' IP MMOs that have flopped and died. I agree that every new movie doesn't need a MMO attached, but given those MMOs tend to die off on their own it isn't a big impact on the industry. IP draws eyeballs - if BioWare was just making a space opera MMO, would it have attracted as much attention as a Star Wars MMO? Nope.
Big MMOs vs Indy MMOs: Arguably, the author is in the best place to correct this issue. Post more reviews / interviews with indy MMO devs. Get people aware of their titles. Get a trial contest going with some of these indy MMOs that aren't translated F2P titles. MMORPG.com could certainly be doing more to educate MMO players between the differences or even what is out there.
Hype: It is what feeds this site. MMORPG.com wants the exclusives / visitor drivers to attract the eyeballs to drive ad revenue. There is even an official "Hype-Level" score given to titles. Seriously, you can't go, "I wish Marketing would stop hyping their title" or "Fans should settle down a bit" then actively enable them to do it without looking a little hypocritcal.
Post-Launch Pre-Full Cost: All I'd see this reduced price doing is encouraging players to play at launch to get the cheapest deal. Launch being arguably the worst time to play a title, these players will pay the cheaper price and then generally justify why they don't want to pay more than that per month. Plus it reduces revenue at the studio when they need it - to start refilling the coffers after a long development - and generally when the highest number of players are playing.
I honestly hope you don't come across a magic lamp, because that was a waste of 5 wishes.
I wish they would remake Shadowbane and UO's magic.
Great article.
#5: Yeah, the SvR2009 CAW feature really has me scratching my head when it comes to what the MMORPG developers are offering us. It's not even close.
#4 IPs tend to be pretty boring overall because it all ends up feeling like backtracking, to say nothing of the whole slew of characters that pretty much just end up getting in your way.
#3 The MMORPG genre has become such a cumbersome beast that true innovation doesn't really exist. To be perfectly honest, innovation has never really been a strong suit within the industry.
#2 WAR is the definition of overhyped. Somebody should have stapled that one dude's mouth shut. That being said, the game was released with an engine that felt archaic.
#1$7 or $15 isn't a big deal really, but I have to wonder, what with the ridiculous sense of entitlement people are developing these days, if actually trying to raise the monthly price post release wouldn't be met with cries of mutiny and betrayal. I remember when price tag was raised from $9.95 a month to $12.95 a month and finally $14.95 a month and all the cries of anger that seethed from the gaming community forums.
Playing an MMORPG, even only a few days a week, becomes a routine part of their lives, that when it comes time to find something 'new', they also want something 'familiar'. The players dictate the market, and that's the reason why when KOR (The next Great White Hope) finally releases, it's going to feel oh so... welcoming.
1- CoH/CoV's character generator wasn't great... it was adequate. It didn't even release with capes or dynamic scaling. At best, that will be the word I end up using to describe CO's character generator. APB might be decent. The keyword that you used in your sentence "promised" is quite the display of naivete.
2- Dude, when the IP is owned by the guys making the game, it's a little bit different.
3- At the very least, marketing needs to get their facts straight with the game developers first. It feels like all they end up ever doing is passing post it notes in the hallway at lunch.
Some nice wishes, but I don't really see that a cheap full play beta for 6 months will work too well from a business POV. Sure its a sensible and fair idea from a consumers perspective, but wheres the business sense in allowing people to play your full game ( albeit with imbalances and hiccups and maybe a reset ), and finish all the content for half price. I think in the time it takes to polish these monster games the average mmo fan will have seen all the content you have - when that price hike comes the potential for losing customer base that has Been There Seen It Done That is pretty high. Sure dedicated players often stick around to replay all the content, or pvp / high level content, but the trickle of content is always an ongoing battle in any mmo - with todays dev technology a player can play through content way way faster than a dev / designer can ever create it. By allowing the six month beta play, you effectively sell for half price the lure of all that content. Exactly the opposite that the pressures of content dictate.
As a business plan its like shooting yourself in the foot. In a perfect world its a nice idea, I just dont see it ever being successful as part of a business plan. Long story short, you're giving half your content away for free.
When the day arrives that the technology to create content is faster / less hassle, and MMOs start updating like magazines, comics or even newspapers on a weekly or daily basis, then the six month beta idea has more merit - because theres always something new around the corner. Thats one of *my* wishes, awaiting the technology that someone can create content for an MMO as simply as writing an article for a newspaper - after all they manage to pump up a whole slew of "content" every day, stories, pictures, listings, adverts, all in a well oiled process that spits out a packaged lump of information every day. But thats more of a discussion about IT practices, software design and content integration - I've been in the IT industry myself for decades, and I have seen the changes brought about with ever more RAD technologies. I think its just a matter of time and experience before content starts to go through a similar realisation.
As for MMOs with IP - I dont think they are bad, they suffer from serious over hype and a level of expectation thats just far too high from being based on watching the movies - series - yada, but they do offer a nice way to inject a huge amount of background, lore or fluff whatever you want to call it.
A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away, I used to play Asheron's Call, in the days when it was new and shiny and cutting edge. I enjoyed it a lot, but there was always a small ... issue... for me that all the content was just so original. Not that original content is bad, but some days I just really couldnt see what the problem would be with meeting a regular dragon, or a bunch of goblins. Having a completely unique bestiary and lore is cool, but it does take a lot of work to make it seem 3 dimensional and not just something to hit over the head to get XP. The advantage with IP is that its probably been telling stories and building lore for years on years, offering a rich history of things to include in their game. Its a deeper more thorough ( and *gasp* more professional ? ) story telling which is no bad thing. If its done right this should be a huge advantage to any MMO. Therefore I think its a bit extreme to say MMOs based on an IP suck, none of them achieve their potential, dont do it ! I think its better to say that the process that goes on in the background, the relationship, the development needs to be re-addressed. In theory already existing IP offers a lot. In practice, the dynamic for bringing it to life needs to be looked at. Dont throw the baby out with the bath water...
Personally I'd love to see an MMO in a Cowboy Bebop universe.... awesome stuff !
Jon Wood, thank you for posting my feelings with a full pound of credibility.
For years, starting with the Alpha release of Asheron's Call 2, I have been complaining about game launches that were relying on the players to reach a playable and enjoyable state. Last time I checked, the car I purchased had four tires on it, an engine, and seatbelts. Are we expected to hug one another for content, push a square boulder through the bugs, or sit at red lights until infinity???
Perhaps I have grown to big for these online game retail entertainers (OGRES). Maybe I should began climbing real mountains and quit using my mind to fill in the picture that developers have time and time again ruined with the reality that they are not capable of launching products resembling their product claim.
Beta Testers, another pet peeve, used to be comprised of gamers who assisted the devs in locating and diminishing bugs. The Beta Testers of today are exploiters, at best. Beta Testing has dwindled down to nothing more than a stress test. Our voices are not heard and perhaps, they just can't fix what they can't find and leave it at that.
No game maker has ever given me a cent to go to my RL job. Why should I give them anything for them to go to theirs?
Anyhow, I digress from my feeble attempt to say, 'Thank you Jon Wood.' I am now your fan and hope to see more gut-induced comments in the future. (See you in line for the next wrestling release.)
Ataaka
-because my money is my money until spend it.
I'm back...
Uhhmm... the idea of charging during Beta is a fair exchange. Two things happen, the first being, devs can rake in a load of cash before launch, perhaps they might even begin taking lunches. Second, more players can get into the Beta, decide whether or not the game is even what they want, and the devs can rake in a load of cash while they try before buy.
I have pre-ordered every major release since AC. Yes, I've spent a ton of cash on MMO's. After being let down, time and time again, I finally decided to give the pre-order one more try... Age of Conan (AoC).
I did not get into Beta, which increased my own hype of AoC, and could only keep up by reading reviews and pasted pictures into my drooling mindset. I was sold without even playing a single minute of the game. I pre-ordered ($80.00 total) and awaited the launch...which turned out to be a complete failure (for me).
My plan was simple... load game, get patches, create character, play a few hours and head out to the Catalina Islands for a vacation. I ended up with wondering, while sitting on the ocean floor (scuba diving), why the hell did they launch if they were not ready?!? The remaining taste of this experience allowed me to cancel my sub and not even play the game. My friends played for about six months then quit as well. Although, they told me that it was finally decent to play.
I hate you sneaky devs who hide behind anonymous names and post unrealistic comments that flame the CUSTOMERS POINT OF VIEW... I am a customer, it's my right to complain...sorry.
Yes! I would pay for a DVD or DL and a half-priced sub if it helps in paying the bills on your end. I would enjoy endorsing such a game, showing my faith in your development, and perhaps reaching a point where I can decide if you are ready for me. It should not be any different. 500k subs and 500k pre-orders is enough money to cover everything you invested, as well as, so nifty bonus checks...
that's roughly 25 million dollars at launch.
If you continue down this road of bait and switch, you'll exponentially lose money before a year ends... =failure.
Jon's idea isn't ground breaking, but it's a start in the direction of keeping me happy. I won't ever pre-launch or pre-order again until developers become more honest. Guess what? I don't care what you think... I still have books, movies, and real life to keep me away from the rash of greed that has taken over the MMORPG industry.
Lastly, I'd also like to say, 'Thank you Blizzard'. You're big, and you live up to it. I have never been happier with any other game maker, except of course... Turbine <wink> (once a fan, always a fan.)
If you're referring to me, I hate to tell you but I am no MMO dev, or even in the game industry ( other than mucking about at an indie scale far farrr away from anything as large as an MMO ). All my professional IT experience is in the much less interesting business arena - financial software, enterprise architecture, SOA, ad nauseum. I spend a lot of my free time transferring my IT skills ( design,coding,media) into indie game development, so I have some insight into the processes and technology behind MMOs / game development, but I've never worked on anything in a professional capacity. So my opinions are just my opinions - sorry if you disagree with them - I just cant see the business benefit to giving full content away for half price. You can imagine the looks on the Moneys faces. Wait, we give it to em for half price for six months... then charge them full price after they've played it to death for 6 months ? I wonder if they'll start doing that with other products / electronic goods. . . heheh. iPhones for half price for the first six months ! Get em while they're new !
I sympathise with the poor experience many customers have with MMO products that arent ready - its bad, its no way to run a railroad ! OTOH, the projects are huge unwieldy beasts that require vast capital up front, and investors get real twitchy real fast, especially when they start talking to starry eyed devs that will eat every single minute of dev time you give them, no matter how much time you give them. Theres always a new feature or must have thing to get inserted. Its something that goes on in all IT areas, its a constant battle between devs, project managers and clients / customers ( or in MMO terms, players ! ). Project over runs, bugs, ROI, all familiar ground.
As players its easy to focus on the game, experience, the stupidities of releasing with bugs or half finished, but MMOs are so much more than games - fundamentally they are businesses first and foremost. Its all about the money...
If you're not referring to me, forget I spoke
If you're referring to me, I hate to tell you but I am no MMO dev, or even in the game industry ( other than mucking about at an indie scale far farrr away from anything as large as an MMO ). All my professional IT experience is in the much less interesting business arena - financial software, enterprise architecture, SOA, ad nauseum. I spend a lot of my free time transferring my IT skills ( design,coding,media) into indie game development, so I have some insight into the processes and technology behind MMOs / game development, but I've never worked on anything in a professional capacity. So my opinions are just my opinions - sorry if you disagree with them - I just cant see the business benefit to giving full content away for half price. You can imagine the looks on the Moneys faces. Wait, we give it to em for half price for six months... then charge them full price after they've played it to death for 6 months ? I wonder if they'll start doing that with other products / electronic goods. . . heheh. iPhones for half price for the first six months ! Get em while they're new !
I sympathise with the poor experience many customers have with MMO products that arent ready - its bad, its no way to run a railroad ! OTOH, the projects are huge unwieldy beasts that require vast capital up front, and investors get real twitchy real fast, especially when they start talking to starry eyed devs that will eat every single minute of dev time you give them, no matter how much time you give them. Theres always a new feature or must have thing to get inserted. Its something that goes on in all IT areas, its a constant battle between devs, project managers and clients / customers ( or in MMO terms, players ! ). Project over runs, bugs, ROI, all familiar ground.
As players its easy to focus on the game, experience, the stupidities of releasing with bugs or half finished, but MMOs are so much more than games - fundamentally they are businesses first and foremost. Its all about the money...
If you're not referring to me, forget I spoke
you do know those iPhone are half off new. (299 wit ha 2 year contract, retail is $500-600) don't you?
And again i point to Turbine. You get into one of their promos and you pay 9.99 a month. But as soon as you unsub the next time its the full 15.
you do know those iPhone are half off new. (299 wit ha 2 year contract, retail is $500-600) don't you?
And again i point to Turbine. You get into one of their promos and you pay 9.99 a month. But as soon as you unsub the next time its the full 15.
Rofl, in general, products are at a premium when they launch, and then come down in price as time goes by ( until they perhaps hit some really old, not being made anywhere premium price again ). Unless I have missed something . . .
I was on a cheap sub for LOTRO for many months myself - nevertheless, unless the numbers are there - theres a good business reason, generally people are eager for new products, and less so for older less functional products and the prices reflect that. Indeed although some users have bad launch experiences, they still fork out big bucks to get the product. From a really cold business POV, they dont have to lower their price - theres an army of eager fans that will fork out the money.
But hey I am defending nothing, I am just pointing out in my opinion I dont think it makes business sense. If you were just interested in cold hard money, and you were cynical / hard nosed enough to realise the army of fans gets you an instant pay off - and the numbers for theoretical re-subbing supports it - then release it half assed !
And as for the phone... if its anything like the UK... the "cheap" phone if you get a contract is all about getting you to sign the contract, which recoups the subsidy you get on the cheap up front phone, and locks you into the contract for a given amount of time - the cheaper the phone up front, the longer the contract / higher the plan. Swings, and roundabouts.
Wish #5 -- I didn't know how utterly freaking awesome it is to be me in a game until reading this post. Jon, after I read your list, I immediately put smackdown v. raw 2009 on my gamefly Q. Well, after about an hour of my wife and I customizing fairly good copies of ourselves (respite with normal clothes from the closet for entry then outlandish wrestling attire underneath for the match,) we had an absolute ball doing crazy moves on each other! The fact that I'm 6'6 and 220 and she's 5'4 and 108 didn't matter at all, and it was hilarious.
GREAT SUGGESTION! Now ... only if we could make mirror image avatars of ourselves in an mmo and "have fun stormin' the castle..."
Five wishes... Is something wrong with me and I don't see the issue with those wishes? Probably so...
My wishes:
1. Combat that allows anybody to kill anybody. Maybe it will take some extreme planning and patience, but if that noob can't have a lucky day and take down that uber-maxxed, then the combat system sucks. Now ifs, ands, or buts. One does not find themselves suddenly immune to lethal attacks. In fact, I find myself becoming less combat effective as I get older, but I've learned how to cheat pretty well...
2. Crafting should be detailed enough to be educational. Lets learn how mining really works. Let's see what it takes to actually make a knife out a chunk of steel. It doesn't have to be ad nauseum detailed, but it should mirror actual processes.
3. No more tanks, healers and dps. I am tired of being forced into a slot. And it's just a silly concept.
/rant off