Profile: Wrymstrum
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• • Why no real PvP in this game?

  • This again? 

     

    Some people want to see this game be just like Warhammer Online set in Middle Earth, but this just isn't the IP for that.  Maybe down the road there will be room for some expanded PVP that has a lot of the types of things you see in WAR and AOC's PVP, but to make LOTRO like that at the start would have required HUGE sacrifices to the quality of LOTRO and it's long term viability. 

    The first problem is that a main PVE game for the evil side just wouldn't work in LOTRO.  Unlike games like WOW, the good and evil side can't share the same PVE instances and raids.  The PVE differences between horde and alliance are quite small, but in LOTRO they have to be completely separate.  Sauron and the free people don't have common enemies.  Evil is evil, and good is good.  To serve both sides equally, you'd have to put in twice the amount of content as you would if you stuck with the good side only for PVE.

    Somewhat tied to that issue is the question of zones.  By following the path of the fellowship through middle earht (for the most part), Turbine is able to get a good pacing for the development of the game.  To make a realm vs realm game, they would have had to screw that pace all up in addition to starting out with 3 or 4 times the land mass that the game shipped with.  So you'd have a bunch more land, but less detailed and generally lower quality areas.  And if they started out doing Mordor, Gondor, and all those areas where the war mainly took place, then what would we have to look forward to down the line?  It's like starting a book by reading the final chapter... it's not satisfying.

     

    Turbine has done a lot of things brilliantly with this game, including their unique PVP system.  PVMP allows for faction based PVP in epic settings without making sacrifices to the PVE game.  The basic PVMP system can easily be built upon as the game expands into areas that are more condusive to realm vs realm type of content.  Plus there are some other nifty things about PVMP.  It allows players to jump into the PVP very early on since you only have to be level 10 to start making monster characters.  So my friends that try the game after i've already been playing for a year can almost instantly jump into the PVP action with me.  I can also try multiple pvp classes without having to do a huge PVE grind investment.  I also like the fact that you can play both sides.  I'm looking forward to Warhammer, but it sucks because the classes I want to play are all Order, but my friends all want to be Destruction.  So I'm boned.  That's no problem in LOTRO.  Plus it's fun to play against people that you know. 

     

     Besides, even if turbine had done what a lot of you are asking for and tried to make this more about PVP, 99% of you would be jumping ship to Warhammer Online anyway because I garuntee you that they would have done a much better job at it.  Mythic's specialty is RVR.  Turbine's is doing episodic story based MMO content. 

  • Posted: 7/19/08 10:44 PM
    Lord of the Rings Online
• • Villains.

  • Originally posted by Deathliche
    

    I didn't say earlier to make it EXACTLY like WoW but it could be made to be similiar to WoW.  Both Hero and Villian should be able to exist in a virtual world and interact with each other, just like in WoW.

     

    Well, I'm not aginst having heroes and villains in the game and able to interact with each other, I just don't think it should be done like it is in wow.   You have to have separate pve content for villains than you do for heroes, which is a huge issue for me.   That's why I think having villains be PVP specific characters would work well.  You can have lots of interaction between heroes and villains without significant PVE content for villains. 

  • Posted: 7/15/08 5:28 PM
    Champions Online
• • Villains.

  • Originally posted by Deathliche
    

    You seem to be pretty vague as to why it won't work in a Super Hero MMORPG.  I believe it can be done.

     

    I didn't say it wouldn't work at all, I just said that it wouldn't work like it does in WOW.  And I wasn't vague. 

     

    With the exception of a few low level instances, all of the main content in WOW is the same for the horde and the alliance.  Blizzard doesn't create raids for the horde and separate raids for the Alliance.  You could do heroes and villains in an MMO, but because the nature of the factions is much more different than in games like WOW you'd have to much more separate content for those factions.  So you have to make sacrifices in order to do heroes and villains that you don't have to do for horde and alliance in WOW. 

    Also it's just easier to do content for heroes.  Heroes are reactive.  The bag guy is out there, you go foil his plot and kick his butt.  Fairly simple to do.  It's much harder to do villain content right without making the villains be total lackeys for some super villain.  

  • Posted: 7/15/08 1:46 PM
    Champions Online
• • Villains.

  • Originally posted by Deathliche
    

    I disagree with your statement of it's not the same thing...

    Both sides can have use of the same character creater, both sides can choose from the same powers, and both sides can start in their own areas to prevent higher lvls character from just ganking low lvl characters just for the heck of it.  Both sides can have their own missions ("quests") that are relevant to their affiliation.

    SO, imo, it can be similiar to WoW and CAN be implemented with alittle work.  Will it be easy?  Probably not, but anything that has worth isn't easy.  I believe going along those lines would make for fun PVPing.  My character could have a player character nemesis on the same server that always seems to gank me at the wrong times, and vice versa. 

    I not saying to make it exactly like WoW either.  Use what is known to work to your advantage, if you can, and progress from there.

    My question, I guess, is why can't they be the same?    

     

    Because the vast majority of the PVE content is exactly the same for the horde and the alliance.  That doesn't work in a superhero game except in limited circumstances. 

  • Posted: 7/14/08 5:07 PM
    Champions Online
• • Villains.

  • Originally posted by Deathliche
    

    Using WoW as a comparison, it has Horde and Alliance.  On a PVP server they can interact by killing each other if they wanted.  Why not the same for CO?

     

    Because it's not the same thing.   There's more significant differences between heroes and villains than horde and alliance. 

  • Posted: 7/14/08 1:04 PM
    Champions Online