Profile: Wagrof
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• • EU and new players - a bad joke ?

  • In another one shard game, EvE online, people sometimes are concerned if they can ever catch up with the vets that started 2003. As an EU player i can only laugh on that : 

    in EU,  players who start with the new skill system (stamina: 1 chars, in contrast with the stamina 7 or 9 vet chars) will NEVER catch up with the older ones no matter how hard they train or how much they invest, because of a change in skillgain mechanics. If they spend the same ammount of cash and spend the same time in hunting like the vets, they won't even get close to the vet's skills with that new system.

    And that's the most frustrating thing i see with this game. In order to hunt efficient, you need to have high skills, so you can use weapons with high dmg/cost.

    You can use them at highest effeciency if you are level ~100 in hit and damage profession. But you can't get there anymore, only the old characters were able to get there, before the change.

     

    You see that vets with agility of 137, while you stuck at somewhere around 50 and spend thousands of peds in ammo (1000 ped = 100$) without climbing one level up.

    Same goes for the evader profession, i chipped in till evader 22 - and since then i hunted dozens of hours med level mobs (argonaut-atrox etc.), spent several vivos t10 (L) for healing, and didn't even get half a level in evade  ... then i scan some vets and see a nice 68 or even 84 evader.

     

    So one might ask - why do you bother about others, are you jealous ?

    The point is that we new players have to compete with the vets. I'm not talking of pvp and oilrigs, where they easy kill any newb. I'm talking about indirect competition: if they hunt the same mobs with their ueber weapons (in terms of eco aka dmg/ped)  at an eco level we will never be able to get, sell the same loot - new player will always be on the loser side.  Because  the loot system is designed with taking them into account. You can't let newbs or mediums hunt close to break-even, as then those vets (which can hunt the same mobs more economical) will hunt profitable and generate loss for the company. But if you make the vets hunt at break-even, the newbs will make a solid loss on the long run (with their bad-eco guns due bad skills)  etc.

    That's quite frustrating, i really can't see why the devs made that change in skillgain-system.

    Won't deposit a cent anymore or spend much ped ingame, maybe will continue to pay when spaceships or new planets are introduced, and all players have equal chances to get skills.

     

  • Posted: 5/06/08 7:53 PM
    Entropia Universe
• • A game of hatred, anger and grief ?

  • Originally posted by Garkan
    

     

    Originally posted by hrobertson
    

    I agree with the OP.
    
    Im not a carebare.. I dont want to have it easy.. I dont want to be wrapped in cotton wool. But thats not to say I think its ok for retards like mercader to gank people that have done nothing wrong. I think it should be more of a reflection of a real society.
    
    I know its just a game but it costs people their subscription and people spend a lot of time and effort to get to where they are.
    
    Would you do that in real life? Kill someone for fun? You know in RL they lock people up for that. Or maybe killing is a bit extreme. So would you burn someone's house down? Or torch someone's car? They have worked hard to get that.. they've put in time and money. They would lock people up for that too. Its called socially unacceptable.
    
    Natttas.. where are you from?!?! Yes society is degrading but it hasnt reached the stage yet where its socially acceptable to burn someones house or torch their car.
    
    If your reason for killing them is not that you like to cause pain but 'for fun'? 'for excitement'? Where is the excitement in ganking some defenceless miner? The excitement of escaping from concord? In that case, why not go and attack an NPC ship?
    
    Im going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the players that gank randomly for the fun of inflicting suffering have something wrong with them. Maybe they were abused or seriously bullied at school or something.

    
    Re-read what you post and try to see how this crap sounds, you are basically accusing gamers who play a game as intended of being frothing maniacs. In my experience of EVE it is not the pirates or pvpers that are maladjusted its the carebears.

     

    Kill a carebear in game and they talk crap and threaten you IRL they make sexual innuendos about your family or recommended methods of committing suicide all because you blew up their internet spaceship. So which is worse playing a game within its designed mechanics or subjecting somebody to a torrent of threats and abuse? It seems a lot more likely to me that those carebears are the ones with issues separating in game activity with real life.

    To be honest it's your reply that sounds crappy. RL threaths and things that you say carebears do are against the rules and would result in a quick ban if petitioned for harrassment. To say that this is the standard practice of carebears is simply bullshit, you are out of touch, that things happen in your phantasy but not in game.

    Your hate against carebears can be explained with jealosy, they have stuff that you will never own, so you think you must ruin their gameplay.   And the anger in game is not even because of highsec-griefing itself. It's because it can be done almost for free with current ship prices and the insurance mechanics. Grief others at basically no cost.  Usually this is done by 13 year old retards who don't stand a chance in pvp, against ships that are fitted for pvp, so they have to blow up a mining ship which can't shoot back, to have their daily dosis of success and to feel "l33t".

     

    Back to topic: it's not my intention to give the game a bad rep. It's still the best MMO out there, and all that anger would not happen if there wasn't a harsh "death penalty" which adds a lot to the thrill of the game. Only those to who the game means something, will have any emotions about it at all (be it bad or good ones).Other than in many other mmos, in EvE someone can have a certain power over others (very limited, but since they can affect them emotionally they have a certain power) - and it is like in rl - not everyone can handle power. 

    It's just like someone way above said, the degeneration of society causes a lots of bastards that see their purpose of life to in harming others  - and since in real life they are restricted to do so by law and law enforcement, they look for games like eve where they can do just that - harass and grief others for fun, even if they don't gain anything else than that griefing expirience.

  • Posted: 4/29/08 1:44 AM
    EVE Online
• • eve online drama again ?

  • Originally posted by Rekindle
    

    i dont think I will ever execute Eve clients ever again.

    Although I have no way to confirm or deny the assertions that were made in the chat log relating to client security, the fact that the source code is available now for public scrunity is definitive for me as there will be lots of code junkies ripping that code appart line by line by line and that is bad folks, very bad, for the community.

    As a programmer wananbe I try to code securely but sometimes I take tiny weenie short cuts (mainly becuase I build in house only apps , non internet facing).  Man if someone took MY code and put it up on the internet I'd get busy recoding.

     

    Yeah indeed, this is the straw for me. I thought about coming back with my two accounts but:

    1. I can't run two clients post  Graphics update even though i'm using the non premium client.

    2. The community is overun by people who have nothing better to do then to piss on my corn flakes. Although they have every right to I have every right not to sub anymore either.

    3. The game has always given a advantage to the few and generally preyed on the general consumer as bait for them. Whether that be alliances with Devs in them (i'm sure they got lots of soft information ), gate gankers that give the advantage to the agressor with an unbalanced consequences, and the macro miners (and the apparant lack of concern for them as !reflected in app code.  Each time anyone speaks up about this stuff they are flamed as being somehow weak for not comprehending eve's complexity.

    When I first started playing this game it had lots of promise but now with a freaking line by line copy of the app code available for public consumption any notion of fairness to the Eve G A M E is gone. Between T2 making zillions for BoB, the database hack (which is way worse than the source code leak) and allllllllllll the BS fire fighting these poor guys have done in the last few years. I got an idea: instead if spinning more BS down our throats why not take a break and fix the @#$# game for the average player?

    I appreciate CCP is a business and they want to push out new content (the need it) but I thought, until now, CCP was the small company of good guys- now I realize that their priorities are not to publish a balanced MMO, but rather appeal to the game elite with the hope that suckers like me will bite.

    no more.

     

    You simply fail to see how intricate and detailed the game is.  You lack the intelligence to properly connect to this game.

     

  • Posted: 4/29/08 1:19 AM
    EVE Online
• • How far have we really come in 10 years of MMORPG gaming?

  • Originally posted by Rekindle
    

    Last week I did something I thought I would never ever do again. I resubbed to Ultima Online.  Why you ask, would I do such an insane thing? The answer is simple: I wanted to go retro for a bit because I'm totally disillusioned with modern games.  I don't necessairly think I've 'solved' my gaming boredom 'problems' per say but so far its been far more fun then I anticipated.

    Frankly, the new games just don't hold a candle to the feelings of the old days.  Thats not to say that the old games presently running (necessairly) hold a candle to themselves either but I began to get curious and finally willing to part with 20 bucks just to see. 

    Many forum posts, on these forums in particular, suggest a number of reasons why, in present times, there are so many gamers unable to rekindle that mmorpg gaming feeling of old.  Some attribute desensitization, others suggest lackluster games that offer nothing truly new.  One of the favorite cop-outs for the spoon fed, kill X fedex style games of modern times is the 'you'll never recreate that first kiss feeling' (which is true to some extend but not a valid defacto answer to cover all the aspects of the cookie cutter model that has been born from the first gen games).  In fact I think there are many reasons and I don't think there is one smoking gun....I also understand the feelings or lack thereof to be entirely subjective.  Yet, I know there is a big sub-community of people that feel the way I do.  It lead me to an interesting question - what has really changed in 10 years of gaming?  What new concepts have been added, and what has been retained from the old days?  The short answer for me is the treadmill approach that everyone uses these days.  Most modern games put you on a set of rails from level 1 on.  Games like Everquest and Ultima Online had no point, you were on your own to forge your own.  Most modern mmos with some bright exceptions, are entirely and absoultely task driven.  The point, is the task. 

    I understand that there are more people playing mmos' (a LOOTTTT more) today than 5 years ago.  This in turn means a whole generation of mmo gamers that did not have CR's in EQ or have to live through the PK ganks in UO.  So today's games are new to many, and in 10 years someone who is just starting to become a mmo gaming enthusaist now may very well have a post similar to this one.

    I think little has changed except things that don't benefit the consumer.  Like the rest of our consumer society we, as consumers of these products are brainwashed into accepting lower quality standards.  The developers haven't done much to advance the genre really and lean on core game concepts invented by their fathers coupled with concepts that make their life easier.  I also think that there are a lot of newb developers out there that have been themselves brain washed into thinking 'this is gaming'.

    The modern mmorpg development template seems geared towards ease of implementation and less to do with making a good roleplaying game. Rather, content is serialized and the patterns emerge very quickly that we, as gamers call 'The Grind'.

    We almost need a new subset to define the games that the original mmo crowd fell in love with. 

     

    Flame me now - got my fire resists up.

     

    You simply fail to see how intricate and detailed MMOs are.  You lack the intelligence to properly connect to this type of game.

     

  • Posted: 4/29/08 1:17 AM
    General Discussion
• • My top 5 reasons why all modern mmos suck

  • Originally posted by Rekindle
    

     

    In order, from least to greatest, here are my reasons for being displeased with all modern mmos currently on the market.  I am not speculating on any of the newer games that have not been released but I will say that I have pretty well given up on this genre.  In my imagination I used to go to worlds.   Now we have a Rosetta Stone for MMO development called Everquest 2.0 - B aka World of Warcraft.

    Although its a great day for businessmen in the sense that they have found ways to jam these game worlds into forumlas and processes that produce the results THEY want, the original spirit of this genre is basically completely gone and replaced with some other form of entertainment.  I don't know if the worlds of the old days will ever exist again because the tendency of the genre is towards this all powerful cash cow of World of Warcraft modeled implementation. Indeed, the aims of a gamer who wants to be entertained with a mmorpg world and the aims of producers who want to mass produce these worlds are at odds with this newly validated Rosetta stone.

     

    How can 10 million people be wrong?  ....maybe 5 million are playing because there's no other game in town.?

     

    5.  Level based games.  Although there's nothing really wrong with level based progression, its the core construct for the ability to serialize game objects such as mobs and therefore paves the way for repetition of content. Level based games are not evil but their implementations have been.

    4.  Soul bound items.  Someone needs to make a game that doesnt have bind on equip.  yes I've heard the arguments. The great MMO Rosetta Stone tells us that it will wreck the economy,  again = throw out that old way of thinking....that proverbial stone is the undoing of this genre.

    3. over use of human death.  I am not against the notion of doing battle with a humanoid object in a game world.  But if there are 25 morons standing i and a field and I walk up and kill each one one by one thats just plain stupid.  Also, how can you really RP alignment if your holy paladin warrior has killed 10000 people before hitting 40.  Less combat more meaninful encounters are required.   If im playing a mmo and I need to drop Mr. Mob then I want to know what he did - not just be some jackass chasing me around.(of course random encounters are welcome)

     

    2.  over use of magic items and gear.  "This great ring was forged in the fires of Mt Kick ass in the last age" ....then WTF is it doing on this rat???  Mobs that can should drop gear, magic items should exist but be about 1/500th as rare (but nonetheless equally available).  When i get a ring of magicness I should be able to tell you the story of how i got that ring.

     

    1. Trivialization of the experience.  My main point encapsulates all the others I've written.  Magic is fun, slaying monsters is fun but more is not always better.  The rewards from finishing tasks have become trivial.  The content has become trivial and basically a means to the next end.  There are some things we have learned, surely, from the evolution of this genre that we can feel safe to use (of course even that point is arbitrary) but I don't want a World of Kraft Dinner, instantly ready for my consumption.

     

     

     

     

    You simply fail to see how intricate and detailed MMOs are.  You lack the intelligence to properly connect to this type of game.

     

  • Posted: 4/29/08 1:16 AM
    General Discussion