Profile: Silvarch
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• • They are kicking this game out the door

  • Originally posted by nileq
    

    Originally posted by Orthedos
    

    Originally posted by Silvarch
    

    Originally posted by TdogSkal

    Did you read my post at all?  because I never said that there new arguement would not be valid because their old one was wrong.. what I am saying is that they have not admitted that they were wrong on their last arguement and are now saying that the game will release but it will be shitty.

    Do you understand the problem with that?  To have a new arguement, you either have to admit you were wrong on the last one or prove you were right.

    You cannot just change your last arguement to fit in with the new information.  Their first arguement was wrong, NONE of them have even said that, they just choose to pick a new arguement to make them look right again.

    Nobody can argue that the game will be unsatisfactory because we have not played the game yet, we do know the game is real and will start a beta in Oct 2008.  So the Vaporware/hoax arguement was wrong.  Now what state the game is come release is still up in the AIR and nobody can say it will be good or bad yet with any kind of facts.

    Do you get it?  I dont care about their new debate until we finish the last debate.   And after being called a ton of different things because I beleive Darkfall is real, your dam right I get pleasure for rubbing their face in it.

    
     

    Oh I read it. What I read from this one though, is that you're unwilling to consider their new argument until you get some sort of self-served closure on the old one by way of admission of defeat from the so called trolls. So basically you just decided to ignore it, which is, of course, your prerogative. By the way, I must again warn you that you haven't proven them wrong yet. That can't happen until the game releases commercially, regardless of announcements, so you won't hear any admissions of defeat from anyone yet. If you choose to wait for release or cancellation before you argue quality, again that's your prerogative, but trolls have already moved on to that, and you can't dismiss (just ignore, thus not comment on) their arguments by saying you expect them to do anything unrelated to the argument itself before it can be valid.

    Yes I agree.
     

    Darkfall has proven nothing so far.  Announcing a new video is not a proof.  Its an annoucement.  Defunct companies and dead gov't typically make a lot of announcement down to the moment of its downfall.

    Likewise, making a video is not the same thing as making a game, much less a game with so much being promised.  So much has been said and so little done over the course of 7 years+.  If I can still hold faith in such a soap opera, every fortune teller on earth will come knocking on my door tomorrow.

    
     

    Laughing out loud, You SIR ARE aware that the "announced video" is already released?

    Here I'll help you out: http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=64217 Go download

    and to the good fellow Silvarch, go and look up the term vaporware, since the definition of the term does not fit Darkfall Online, you have been proven wrong. Here I'll help you with a link aswell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

     

    
     

    Dear nileq, it seems you are misunderstanding a lot of things. Am I part of the group that has been said to have been proven wrong? No. Do I believe they have a game? Yes, I always have. Do I believe it's vaporware in spite, or even because of what's been said about it? Yes. Although my last two answers may seem mutually exclusive, they're not, and I will use the article you so kindly provided (apparently without reading it) to demonstrate how it is so.

    Do see the types section of the vaporware article that you linked? Especifically the "obsolete on delivery", "overambitious hype" and especially the "falling short of expectations" types of vaporware? Darkfall has yet to prove it isn't either of those. So you see, even if/when it does release it could still end up being vaporware by the very definition you heralded. If you want to be anal, it hasn't yet released, so it hasn't proved it's not vaporware (the existential kind) at all, but since I actually do believe they have a game, I won't argue that.

    So as you see, no one has been proven wrong yet, except for those who said the video wouldn't be released on August or at all. Only once the beta is playable then those who said or thought the game did exist will have been proven wrong. Only once the game releases, those who said or thought it wouldn't release would be wrong. Only once the game proves to be of great quality and everything people expected and have everything it was claimed to have then those who think otherwise would be wrong. Until then their guesses are as valid (if not equally probable) as yours.

  • Posted: 9/10/08 1:07 PM
    Darkfall
• • New Darkfall Beta Signup

  • A most joyous occasion. Beta will hopefully, for better or for worse, end all the discussions about the state of the game, release probability, professionality of the developers and quality of the support and whatnot once and for all. Signing up when I get home.

  • Posted: 8/29/08 4:29 PM
    Darkfall
• • They are kicking this game out the door

  • Originally posted by Dark_Lord_13

     

    No logical debate will deny statistics, so I hate to say it, but just because locic dictates that because someone's arguement was not right before can not by any means dismiss the that persons next arguement is illogical in it's ignorance of statistics.

    Even logic has it's limits on the grounds of chaos theory vs. statistics.

    
     

    This is where we disagree. Then again, I'm talking about a strictly logical debate, argument for argument, not debater for debater. Logic can't have memory or be influenced by past results, or it won't be completely objective. Logic isn't based on statistics, or I could logically argue that any given person is chinese. Much like the kid who cried wolf parable, just because someone has been wrong/lying most of the time, you can't logically dismiss their new argument as wrong or invalid. I have no idea what chaos theory has to do with anything we've been talking about, do you really know what it is?

     

  • Posted: 8/29/08 4:22 PM
    Darkfall
• • They are kicking this game out the door

  • Originally posted by TdogSkal

    Did you read my post at all?  because I never said that there new arguement would not be valid because their old one was wrong.. what I am saying is that they have not admitted that they were wrong on their last arguement and are now saying that the game will release but it will be shitty.

    Do you understand the problem with that?  To have a new arguement, you either have to admit you were wrong on the last one or prove you were right.

    You cannot just change your last arguement to fit in with the new information.  Their first arguement was wrong, NONE of them have even said that, they just choose to pick a new arguement to make them look right again.

    Nobody can argue that the game will be unsatisfactory because we have not played the game yet, we do know the game is real and will start a beta in Oct 2008.  So the Vaporware/hoax arguement was wrong.  Now what state the game is come release is still up in the AIR and nobody can say it will be good or bad yet with any kind of facts.

    Do you get it?  I dont care about their new debate until we finish the last debate.   And after being called a ton of different things because I beleive Darkfall is real, your dam right I get pleasure for rubbing their face in it.

    
     

    Oh I read it. What I read from this one though, is that you're unwilling to consider their new argument until you get some sort of self-served closure on the old one by way of admission of defeat from the so called trolls. So basically you just decided to ignore it, which is, of course, your prerogative. By the way, I must again warn you that you haven't proven them wrong yet. That can't happen until the game releases commercially, regardless of announcements, so you won't hear any admissions of defeat from anyone yet. If you choose to wait for release or cancellation before you argue quality, again that's your prerogative, but trolls have already moved on to that, and you can't dismiss (just ignore, thus not comment on) their arguments by saying you expect them to do anything unrelated to the argument itself before it can be valid.

  • Posted: 8/29/08 4:16 PM
    Darkfall
• • They are kicking this game out the door

  • Originally posted by TdogSkal
    

    Originally posted by Silvarch
    

    Originally posted by TdogSkal
    

    Originally posted by mike470
    

    Originally posted by TdogSkal 
     

     

    Hi Tdog, guilds coming along nicely. It's a little early, but ya need to be patient with this kind of stuff, eh? 

    Oh right, the post.  On with the discussion!
    
     

    So your saying that Darkfall only has 2 possiable outcomes?  Not releasing or sucking on release?

    The chances of DF having a decent release are very slim.  Beta for a month, then release?  One month, especially with all of these "features" that DF has..  I'm very doubtful.  Professional testers are nice, but you need more than 10-200 people to test a game; especially with all of Darkfall's "features"

    How did you come up with that... what about 2 more opinions... It is great on release or it is playable on release?

    As I said above, that seems like a slim chance.  Beta is important..isn't that what you do an an intern?

    You trolls are amazing.... Last week It was "it will never come out, its vaporware"... this week its "It will suck on release or not come out at all."  Way to cover your asses.

    There's a possibility of vaporware; although it is a less of a chance than before.  There is nothing wrong with changing the arguement, especially when things happen this suddenly.

    Honestly, if DF releases, I don't see a good release.  But, I guess that makes me a troll thinking differently.

    Please do us all a favor and dont play Darkfall on release, the last thing we need is a bunch of cry babies on the forums because they died and lost all there stuff.

    hehe.  I played a full loot game for six years, and I'm going to begin playing another one if I like the free version and can join a decent village.  I've died and lost so many valuable things, but I stick around. 

    Aren't you the one who says not to generalize?

     

     

    
     

    The point is you haters are just changing your story to fit the latest news.  Its is not vaporware now that we have a date for beta, so now it will have a bad release.   It would be one thing if you haters said that Darkfall is going to be a crap game on release, then you would be fine... But when you say over and over that Darkfall is a hoax, its vaporware, it will never release, then we find out this information and all of you change your arguement to fit it.

    Its like saying Well the Detroit Red Wings suck and will never win a playoff game, then after they win there first playoff game, coming back and saying well they will never win a championship.  Its pretty much makes your arguement worthless because you cant stick to your guns.

    Us so called fanbois have never changed our arguement that Darkfall is real and it will release why should you hates be able to adapt your arguement to fit the current news everytime some news comes along?

    Glad the guilds going well... CoS is going well.   Mike, your not a troll because you have a different opinion, your a troll because all you are doing is creating a useless arguement based on the information at hand, as that information changes, so does your arguement.  That is trolling.

    
     

    Changing your argument to take into account newfound information is not trolling, it's the smart thing to do in all areas. Or are you suggesting that one should not change one's argument in lieu of new information in order to keep it valid? Debating does not have memory. It doesn't matter if someone was wrong the last 99 times, you can't logically justify simply dismissing their 100th argument based on that history. It's possible they were wrong on the hoax argument (just possible because even though announcements have been made, there's still no beta or game yet) it doesn't make a different argument from them invalid.

    Even if you don't agree with their new position, you're not arguing against it, you're arguing against the holders of the position because of their old argument. Argue why the game will be released with all its promised/stated/listed/mentioned/once talked about features.

    
     

    See that is bullshit, if you can change your arguement everytime new information is released then you can never be wrong..

    The naysayers were wrong, the beta will be released in Oct 2008.  That made their vaporware/hoax arguement wrong... I have not seen one hater/troll state that fact, now they just changed their story to the game will suck on release. 

    So what your saying is that as long as they change their arguement to fit the latest news then they were never wrong in the first place?  If someone was wrong on their arguement 99 times then got 1 right, guess what they are still wrong most of the time.  Logic is simple my friend.  Logically they were wrong about the vaporware/hoax arguement, now if they admit they were wrong and then state their new position, I would be fine with that but that is not the case here.

    If you can't understand what is wrong with that then their is no reason to keep talking to you.

    
     

    Where did I say that changing your arguments meant you weren't wrong in the past? Are you reading my posts? If you're wrong, you're wrong, but that doesn't make your next argument wrong as well. I said it doesn't matter how wrong or how many times one person has been wrong in the past, it doesn't make their new arguments invalid. Logic is not statistics or viceversa.

    And while probable, do not forget that they haven't yet been proven wrong yet. The only way that argument can be proven wrong is for DF to release commercially.

    Instead of dismissing their arguments of the game being unsatisfactory on release by pointing out who they are and how you believe they were wrong on their last argument, argue against the game being unsatisfactory. If you feel you've won the hoax argument, there's no need to bring it up (unless you take pleasure from that, but that's not debating, that's just gloating a bit too soon), and you can't use that as a detractor for their current argument.

    If you keep your feelings away from reading the post, you will notice that I am not arguing for either side here. I am just asking you to debate properly and logically.

  • Posted: 8/29/08 2:42 PM
    Darkfall