Profile: Plasuma!!!
Send PM  Forum Posts  Forum Topics 

Recent Forum Posts [more...]

• • First!

  • Quite simply, it's there to inform people of its existence.

  • Posted: 11/17/08 12:41 PM
    LEGO Universe
• • Unique game approach on soloing and grouping .. would you try it?

  • Originally posted by qombi
    

    What I would like is a few classes such a necro that are naturally antisocial to be a class designated as solo. There could be more as well but these classes wouldn't offer much to a group. In fact if they grouped they would provide the group with a experience penalty to the point it wouldn't be worth it. Then you would have your grouping classes who get a penalty for solo and get a lot better xp in a group. Actually these classes that are labeled group classes would have a hard time killing monsters solo that a necro would kill with ease.

    Funny you should mention a necromancer as an antisocial and very poor grouping class, because that's exactly what said class is in EQ2.

     

    I can see a possible trend arising from this:

    At the game's release, the individuals who don't know anyone to play with will decide to have a solo class. They will level it up to maximum and reap the benefits of a high-income / high-level main character, and then create a grouping alt. This way they have a 'PvE farming character' which can be used to twink their grouping alts, making them more desirable for grouping in general (so they get into more teams). Even if you disallow sharing of wealth between chars on the same account or even the creation of alts at all, there will be a lot of people who will buy and support two accounts.

    Also, those who choose grouping classes but cannot find groups will either suffer through the poor soloability of their chosen class or will start a new character that can solo.

    So yet again, soloing is still the initial primary goal for new players.

    From what I see, this will only eliminate the frequent forum question: "which class is easiest to solo to cap?" That's great if the question bothers you... but as for affecting gameplay in a major way, players already weed through which classes are needed / viable for raids and grouping and which are the best for solo grinding.

    I just don't see a significant difference...

    Anyway, I said "yes", I would play that game. Not because I think it will solve anything, but because I'd like to see if my prediction came true. I'm such an asshole.

     

    Besides, I don't like the idea of a 'social game' encouraging antisocial behavior in such a way. MMORPGs are social games blah blah blah, blah. Blah blah.

    Blah.

    I'm getting too preachy about this topic. I already have a post or two somewhere in these forums on teamwork incentives. I think my posts tend to be overlooked for some reason... either I'm a horribly dull typist and not worth the effort to read or I've gained enough notoriety as a troll to be ignored by everyone.

    Oh well, I consider either of the above an accomplishment.

  • Posted: 11/03/08 4:44 AM
    Developers Corner
• • Will dev's learn from the "Recipe of Failure" in MMO's?

  • Originally posted by Zindaihas
    

    Originally posted by girlgeek
    

    Originally posted by Plasuma!!!

     GREAT comments.  I just don't think that the vast majority of today's gaming market, is ready for anything that requires much thinking or effort.  They seem to pretty much WANT the rush of the quick kills in 15 minute scenarios and battlegrounds, etc.  If they can't have what they want....and RIGHT THE FECK NOW....they get whiney and cranky and file petitions about things taking too long, and (a good example....) the zombie invasion getting in the way of their power-leveling to 70, etc., etc.
    

    It's almost as if trying to put any RPG elements into an MMORPG...has become TABOO.  /sigh

    
     

    I'm telling ya, you're not wasting your time by reading Plasuma's comments.  But so as not to make his head too big, I think I'll reply to yours.  You may be right when you say that today's gamers are not ready for more involved, thought provoking MMOs, but if that is so, I think it's due mainly because the devs have made it that way.  Therefore, it is also their job to make gamers willing to be more patient when it comes to playing them.

    Let's go back to EQ.  I almost always go back to that game because I think it is the father of the vast majority of MMOs we see on the market today.  It really redefined the gaming world.  Before EQ, there were certainly video games that were addictive, but I doubt it was anything like what we saw in EQ.  It wasn't called Evercrack for nothing.  Speaking from my own experience, I know I had been semi-addicted to other games myself, but again, nothing like what I experienced in EQ.  There were games where I would stay up playing late into the evening, but eventually I would get tired and go to sleep.  In EQ, I would actually sacrifice sleep (and work and nourishment) so I could keep on playing.

    So starting from there, I think the devs of future games looked at EQ, saw its enormous popularity, but also saw the enormous time sink required to play it.  And they must have thought, "How can we remove the time sink, but keep the fun."  And that's why today we see limited or no death penalties, superficial dungeons and kill "X" number of mobs for instant rewards.

    But here's the problem.  For most of us (at least for me) who broke our teeth on EQ, removing those challenges in order to save time also removed the fun.  Take away the challenge, you take away the incentive to play.  And that's why most older gamers get bored with today's MMOs very quickly.

    After playing EQ and realizing the enormous time commitment required to play it, I have always believed that if you don't have enough time to play an MMO that challenges you, you probably should stay away from it altogether.  I'm a fan of going in the opposite direction that companies are taking today's games.  More challenge, deeper dungeons, long thought provoking quests, etc.  And if I don't have the time to play,that's my problem.  But don't look for it to happen any time soon.  We live in a very fast-paced society and today's MMOs reflect that.  I'm not looking for a game anytime soon that caters to my desires.

     

    People actually read my posts? I thought it was mutually agreed that I was a troll.

    "They see me trollin'. They hatin'. Reportin', they tryin' catch me writin' dirty."

    Chorus: "tryin' catch me writin' dirty."

     

    You are right, though. In an attempt to remove the grind and time-sinks from the Everquest design, we've practically removed the only parts of the game that made it challenging. However, I think there's more to it than that.

    Among many other things, I think a lot of the richness of the design that made it interesting to a mature mind was stripped away. Harsh penalties and the like weren't there to just waste time, they were designed to give the world a certain feel. Less like an amusement park ride and more like an adventure with real consequences.

    Eventually the 'adventure' was replaced with a 'vacation tour' and that eventually morphed into the 'theme park' design (introduced by WoW) which is used today. Personally, I'd hate to see where it goes next following this trend. Don't get me wrong, all of the above could be very fun, but a difference I see is longevity: an adventure could last years, a vacation or tour might last a month, and you only go to a theme park for a day or two. Each with fewer negative aspects than the last, but since pros and cons often work in parallels, just as many positives are lost as well.

    I suppose a similar trend in reality could include capitalism transforming into a socialism. More freedoms are removed to make life 'better and more streamlined for everyone', while the richness of life will slowly be drained away.

    So as time goes on, we may yet see more theme parks that will transform into... well, whatever is more condensed than a theme park. This is the gamer generation of instant gratification, where zen is unheard of all goals must be reachable within the first few minutes of play.

  • Posted: 11/01/08 3:54 PM
    Developers Corner
• • Will dev's learn from the "Recipe of Failure" in MMO's?

  • Originally posted by girlgeek
    

    Originally posted by Plasuma!!!
    

    Why not take a page from the U.S. Army and examine what it means to be a patriot of that country and fight for the rights that one holds dear?

    Again....an assumption that people are interested in stories, lore, and roleplaying.  And you'd THINK that would be TRUE, being they're playing an mmo R P G but I'm not seeing a lot of people that appear interested in "reasons" when I read what PvPers post.  This is why I don't understand why they don't all go play an FPS together.  O.o

    Perhaps factions that operate more like countries instead of the the hollow, looming presence they pose in current games would be a starting point. Say for example, if a faction is conquered, the losing players will find themselves under a new flag with penalties incurred upon what they had taken for granted.

    So the purpose for fighting other players and factions is not about being better than everyone else, but instead about preserving what you have and perhaps, if imperialism kicks in, desiring more.

     

    GREAT comments.  I just don't think that the vast majority of today's gaming market, is ready for anything that requires much thinking or effort.  They seem to pretty much WANT the rush of the quick kills in 15 minute scenarios and battlegrounds, etc.  If they can't have what they want....and RIGHT THE FECK NOW....they get whiney and cranky and file petitions about things taking too long, and (a good example....) the zombie invasion getting in the way of their power-leveling to 70, etc., etc.
    

    It's almost as if trying to put any RPG elements into an MMORPG...has become TABOO.  /sigh

     

    I'm not so sure it has more to do with the mentality of the players than with the design of the game. Personally, I think it's reversed.

    When you show a player a new game, you teach them how to play it and what to look for in just the first few minutes (perhaps through tutorials). They will apply previous knowledge from other games they've played, of course, but precautions should be taken to shake them of those preconcieved notions in the new game itself. This step is usually done through immersion (Oblivion is an example), and MMORPGs are terrible for this, because they only focus on the core mechanics in the tutorials (ie: "here's your inventory, here's the quest log, that over there is an NPC, click on it for a quest, click this button to skip the quest text").

    As of now, the design of MMORPGs almost enforces the solo gaming mentality through stressing only the immediate core mechanics (not the social aspects). It's like it doesn't matter that you're part of a faction or group, you're only out for yourself: to get the shiny ph4t l3wtz and grind to the level cap. The game is teaching you to think like that, not vice versa.

     

    Anyways, I pointed out the army as a reference, not for role-playing purposes on a superficial level, but to highlight the very real possibilities and consequences of all-out war.

    If you actually design the game mechanics around a bigger picture that players are forced to see, you change how the game is played. So if a player starts in a faction (unwittingly, or even unwillingly), and he and all members of the faction decide to be soloists, the organization will likely fail and could be easily conquered and destroyed by another faction that has it's act together.

    The whole point of protecting your faction is to protect your in-game "rights". Losing your nation likely means that ridiculous taxes will be imposed and a lot of streamlining features (such as fast-travel or even being able to own a mount) become impossible because of the new imperial laws. Or perhaps your nation is very large, but you're losing ground... losing resources in the process, so it becomes more difficult to acquire certain important items.

    So with such penalties in mind, would you not consider helping out your fellow countryman? Wouldn't you think that grouping with them, regardless of their 'guild' affiliation, would still benefit you even after they leave the group?

    Focus goals with penalties and rewards. If you want people to put forth more collective effort, make it very inefficient or unwise to do the opposite.

     

    As for what you're saying... I'm pretty sure that role-playing as you know it will not likely be represented properly in a digital medium. Ever (or until we reach the singularity, if it ever happens). I'll say for now that pen-and-paper games are the epitome of the role-playing experience and use it as an example.

    When there are no rewards or penalties for role-playing (a mechanic which is nearly impossible to monitor in an MMOG), then there's no point in doing it. In a pen-and-paper medium, role-playing is the game, and if you don't do it, the experience will be very bland.

    Video games demonstrate mechanics as inflexible laws, while pen-n-paper DMs use the mechanics as simple guidelines (role-playing often trumps the dice roll or prepared content). Until game engines can recognize and react to situations as efficiently as a dungeon master, RP and RP events will have no place in MMORPG game play... that is unless you have some friends who enjoy it, but then it's just isolated and becomes annoying when the immersion is constantly broken by others.

  • Posted: 11/01/08 5:44 AM
    Developers Corner
• • Will dev's learn from the "Recipe of Failure" in MMO's?

  • Originally posted by paulscott
    

    I'd love to see a fight start in a 'barbarian' city.  then have the honor guards come up and say "I don't know how you city folk solve your differances, but around here we have standards" :casts debuff that removes armor and weapons and a script that gathers nearby NPCs to watch:

     

    I always figured that it'd be something funny to add to a game.

     

    I can imagine that, and it's hilarious.

    Just it hurts to think about how easily abused it could become, like say if a "fight" included an entire army. Magically, they're all naked and everyone's staring at them.

    There goes the raid, but fun times were had regardless, I suppose.

     

    I'm such a killjoy.

    By the way, nice sig.

  • Posted: 10/26/08 9:39 PM
    Developers Corner