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Profile: Naryysys
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UsernameNaryysys
Rank: 1/100Rank: 1/100Rank: 1/100Rank: 1/100Rank: 1/100
Real NameJessup Dixon
RankNovice Member
JoinedDecember 15, 2003
GenderMale
Age(hidden)
LocationAlbion, Gareth, TN, United States
Last VisitJuly 23, 2008
Post Count94
Biography

 
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Latest Blog Entry - Much Ado About PvP: What us PvPers Really Want, Laced with Personal Opinion
From my blog My username's Cavolonian.. Don't know what Cavolonian Means? Me neither.. [Naryysys]

Before I get started, allow me to say that much of this is biased by my personal opinion on the topic of PvP. I’ve been thinking about the topic lately, and have decided to put what I’ve come to down for those who wish to read it.
 
 
 
            Opinions on PvP are wide and varied, from hardcore perma-deathers to softcore corpse-retrievers, but I think a general rule among those who play MMOs for PvP is this: gear should not decide who wins or who loses a fight. I believe the playerbase is more forgiving to a system in which classes weigh heavily on the outcome of a fight than to a system in which gear gives an insurmountable advantage to a player. I don’t think I have to name any examples of gear-based PvP systems on the market right now, but I would like to mention DAoC as inspiring the point I’m going to make about what I believe is the right way to do PvP.
 
            Players in DAoC now create things called templates for their characters. In a nutshell, it basically maxes out all the stats of the character, pushing him to the end of his potential. What this little patch of genius means is that gear plays almost no role whatsoever in the outcome of a PvP match in DAoC. Almost everyone in the game is templated if they’re PvPing, and it gives everyone a fairly level playing ground. You have classes which are strong against some classes and weak against others. This is only natural and should be strived for—without this, you would only be able to create classes aesthetically different. I have come to call this the class rule—classes should generally fair better against certain other classes, but that should provide an advantage, not a win, to the player. There is an equilibrium needed here. If the class rule becomes too overbearing, PvP will get stale.
           
            The beauty of the class rule is that you get a playing experience based more on skill than any other PvP system. To shamelessly plug DAoC once more, many times, battles are decided by which CCer is able to get his or her mezzes off first.  Other times, it’s decided by which healer is able to elude the tanks for the longest.  And yet other times, it’s decided by which team is able to effectively eliminate the other team’s heavy hitters.  There are almost no instances in DAoC in which gear plays a major role in which group is victorious.  Basically, battles aren’t decided by who farmed the most.  I (and I daresay most PvPers out there) believe this makes for a much better PvP experience. Stop telling me who I can fight by the gear they wear, and start telling me that as a cloth wearer, I should be looking for those big, lumbering tanks and trying to avoid those nimble, sneaky stealthers. Stop telling me I should be looking for the guy with the least epics, and start telling me I should be looking for my most opportune moment to pounce. That’s what PvPers want.
 
            Another slice of genius worth mentioning is AoCs brilliant idea to separate PvP and PvE levels. I think this was a great move by Funcom, and it has really sparked my interest in a game I hadn’t given a look before. Let’s hope that they can continue this sentiment on through to gear. Us PvPers, we’re an odd type. We don’t want to farm, we want to fight. Give us the opportunity to do so without all this raiding hubbub.

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    • Age of Conan = Prettier Dungeon Siege, hardly any MMO aspect to it.
    •  

      Originally posted by Narug

       

      Originally posted by Naryysys

       


      From a strictly roleplaying standpoint, withholding crafting until level 40 is an utterly stupid idea.  Crafters generally don't have extensive knowledge of combat..  They have extensive knowledge of how to make the waepons of combat, but not how to use them.  I feel being forced to go out and grind half the game in order to craft the weapons of war is ludicrous.  That being said, I don't really enjoy crafting, so this really wouldn't affect my gaming experience much.

      I was commenting on crafting, (maybe not well enough) it's gameplay, and roleplay perspectives so I'll assume the rest is for others to debate.

       

      Problem with starting out is you're on an island and must learn how to survie.  You don't have an option to start out at the smithy or what have you.  You don't start with all your skills and my conqueror only swung a piece of an oar at start.  I think people would at least know to swing a piece of wood under such circumstances.  Yes they wouldn't swing that well but since we only have that limitation to work with that's what one has to go on.

      Since we know that the character has lost memory of skills we must assume they must re-learn crafting arts as well.  For me it seems to fit.  Maybe that's just me though.

       

      That's very valid.  Having lost all memory, I could see withholding crafting the first twenty levels.  I don't see 40, but I'm not sure how long it would take you to get from 20 to 40, so I'll leave it there.  Y'know, people who have lost their memory will retain learned skills from before the event that caused the memory loss.  They won't know they have those skills, though, until they attempt to use them.  Wouldn't it be cool if, at 20, to start crafting, you did a quest where you realized you have an aptitude for smithing by way of doing a favor for the local smithy or what not?  I think it'd be a pretty neat quest.  Sometimes, I wish I could write some of these quests for MMOs. ;)

    • Posted: 5/27/08 12:01 AM
      Age of Conan
    • Age of Conan = Prettier Dungeon Siege, hardly any MMO aspect to it.
    •  

      Originally posted by Narug

       

      Originally posted by Ozmodan

       

      Now of course you can't really do any real crafting until 40(what an utterly stupid idea to delay crafting until 40) so there might be some decent crafting items that come about. 

      Have to say I disagree with this here.  You shouldn't craft till higher levels anyway.  It gives you time to learn the game when just starting from a gameplay perspective and allows you to learn the lay of the land/people from a roleplay standpoint.

       

      Or does one think you should know how to craft suits of armour when just starting your way in the world?  If anything it would involve using sticks and plants to form together very basic things. 

      You start with a character who can't remember their past as far as I know.  Least that's how it is for my Cimmerian conqueror.


      From a strictly roleplaying standpoint, withholding crafting until level 40 is an utterly stupid idea.  Crafters generally don't have extensive knowledge of combat..  They have extensive knowledge of how to make the waepons of combat, but not how to use them.  I feel being forced to go out and grind half the game in order to craft the weapons of war is ludicrous.  That being said, I don't really enjoy crafting, so this really wouldn't affect my gaming experience much.

       

      I also agree with others that heavy instancing is a bad move when encouraging PvP, for many reasons.  One reason, as another has stated, is that gankers can literally get off scot-free by changing instances.  If it's anything like CoH instances (you get to choose which instance when you zone), then gankers will simply wreak havoc until they feel support is on the way, then change instances and repeat.  I could see zone chases going on, people on their high level toons constantly switching instances trying to find that ganker that had been mauling their alt earlier.  Not immersive, not cool, not fun.

      I do remember the AoC advertising machine saying such things as "epic" when describing their PvP.  A 96-player instanced PvP zone is simply not epic for anyone who's played DAoC.  From what I understand, this 96-player zone is created when players are attacking guild keeps?  In DAoC, there is one load screen-- the frontiers.  After that, there are literally dozens of guild owned keeps for the taking or defending, and literally hundreds (in the heyday, even thousands) of players running around taking or defending these keeps.  THAT'S epic.

      Now again, I've not played the game, but have read most of this thread and from what I've gathered, the heavy instancing in AoC does not stop at PvE.  Until I'm shown evidence to refute this, I probably won't be picking up a copy.

       

      By the way, who doesn't make their game available for online purchase and download nowadays?  I probably would've bought a copy earlier this week had I been able to buy a CD key from Funcom and downloaded the client.  After reading this thread, I'm glad it's not.  I can now make a more informed decision, but I feel Funcom has dropped the ball by not making online purchase and download available.  Maybe I'm just missing the page, but I searched pretty heavily.  Where's the online download?

       

      EDIT- Been a while.  Typos, ho!

    • Posted: 5/26/08 10:39 PM
      Age of Conan
    • Best Gankfest MMO.
    • Originally posted by MLecl0001

      See I dont view that as ganking, thats PvP.  Ganking imo and lots of others is  a max level player attacking a beginner.  That is ganking to me, just outnumbering the other side is not ganking, its when the other side has absolutely no chance in not only winning but even fighting back.


      I believe he is referring to zerging.  It's not ganking, but you could say it's another form of the same idea.

      Ganking and zerging have in common one thing: utilizing an unfair* advantage (numbers or level) to score points/honor/cities/keeps/etc.  Beyond that, they're different.  Many games discourage ganking, but few discourage zerging, as that could possibly discourage getting more people to PvP and consequently play their game, which is bad for business.

       

      *Some may think these are not unfair advantages.  I use the word for sake of providing a definition only.

    • Posted: 3/04/08 8:54 PM
      General Discussion

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