Profile: ArcAngel3
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• • Dev chat clearly misled customers, in my view

  • Originally posted by mehhem
    

    You only get a reasonable amount of time to sue SOE, generally about a year after the offense has happened.  Since its 2008, all you can do is just hate yourself.

    
    Lol self-hatred doesn't seem like a reasonable way to address the apparent injustice I've highlighted.  After all, I wasn't the one misleading customers.  And yes, as someone has pointed out, the statute of limitations hasn't run out yet.  I'm aware of the timelines.  Also, if SOE or LEC knowlingly misled consumers, that's a criminal matter, so we're not talking about anyone being sued.

    Tbh, I don't think hatred of anyone is a very productive path.  If SOE and LEC knowlingly misled people, I think they should simply admit it, officially apologize, and refund any subscription money paid under false pretenses.  If they don't see fit to do this, it's very likely that someone will dialogue with the authorities to get their take on the dev chats.  I suppose in the end, this will be the opinion that matters most.

  • Posted: 5/11/08 9:36 PM
    Star Wars Galaxies
• • Can someone explain the hate towards SOE?

  • Originally posted by onlinenow225
    

     

    Originally posted by ArcAngel3
    

     

    Originally posted by boognish75
    

    fer gads sakes man, all the swg stuff was on a test server, and i remember hearing about it before it went live the cu didnt just magically appear one day when i woke up. Listen to you guys contradict myself makes me sick, example is in this thread, IE. Soe buys games and runs em on a skeletal crew, sooooo....they tried to change a game that was dieing anyways to make it better and everyone flips cause there trying to do something,

    All they did was try to change a game that was dying anyways to make it better, you say.  An interesting way to think of what SOE did in SWG.  Here's what you seem to be missing.  I don't have time for a complete list so a summary will have to do: 

    They advertised revamps for squad leaders and rangers, and new features for Creature Handlers.  People paid for all that was advertised in a new expansion.  Immediately after payment was received for things promised in two dev chats, all of the professions mentioned were deleted.  People felt badly misled.  Customers discussed a class action lawsuit and were given a refund for the expansion.  However, SOE, as far as I know, kept all of the subscription money people paid to enjoy the features that SOE deleted.

    Many people, as a result, feel that a gross injustice was done, and that it hasn't been duly compensated to this day.

    That's one issue.  Another is what SOE did the virtual community that was SWG.  They encouraged people to build their characters, make friends, get married, build cities and communities, unlock the mystery of the jedi etc.  People of course did all of this.  Then on one day, all of this was nuked by something called the NGE.  Most of the professions people mastered were were simply deleted.  The quests they had been working on for years (yes years worth of actual quests) were removed from the game.  All of this quest progress was negated.  Those that unlocked the mystery of the jedi, found that it was all for nothing.  Most of their force powers were also deleted, and jedi became a starting profession.  Many of the new items in the new expansion were rendered useless.  Combat attributes that they modified ceased to exist.  Again, simply removed from the game.  Buy the new expansion to tame new creatures they were told.  Then creature handler was deleted.  The announcement for all the deletions came just 2 days after the relase of the expansion with all the new creatures to tame.

    If that's not enough information for you.  LEC and SOE told everyone they were making the game better.  In addition to the problem of misleading marketting, and all of the losses I've mentioned, the NGE rendered chat and movement systems both broken.  Combat abilities simply didn't fire, and heals healed enemies.

    If that's still not enough for you, we could talk about how people were invited to provide feedback on these changes on the forums.  However, when they did, their feedback was moved, locked or deleted and they were banned from posting.

    I could go on, but if anyone doesn't get the picture yet, I expect they simply don't want to.  

    Yea don't undestand people that cant grasp what you just said...

     

     

    And SOE's customer service is a freakin joke lol.   They yell at customers for disagreeing with how their games are panning out.  Its just horrible, im even surprised at the amount of people still playing their games.

     

    I also had first hand experience with credits just going poof same with my friend.  SOE did nothing and said we must have spent them.  Yet we log off one day from mission gridning and then next day we log on and wow 5m credits gone.

     

     

    Now that I have a bit more time, I can also comment on the claim that all this "SWG stuff" was put on a test server.  The NGE was announced on Nov. 3 (I believe).  It went live on Nov. 15.  That's 12 days on test.  During that time people pointed out all of the broken features and incredible losses they were going to experience.  Even one SOE staff person attempted to speak out about the NGE fiasco.  Her post was deleted within moments and she was never heard from again.  We assume she was terminated, fired I mean.  I think she now works on Lotr, and I'm glad for her.
    As for how this all related to Potbs.  Well I remember the day I heard that FL was going to partner with SOE.  The NGE fallout was still on full boil.  People warned them about associating with SOE in light of their practices, but apparently FL didn't listen.  More's the pity.

  • Posted: 5/11/08 12:38 PM
    Pirates of the Burning Sea
• • Can someone explain the hate towards SOE?

  •  

    Originally posted by boognish75
    

    fer gads sakes man, all the swg stuff was on a test server, and i remember hearing about it before it went live the cu didnt just magically appear one day when i woke up. Listen to you guys contradict myself makes me sick, example is in this thread, IE. Soe buys games and runs em on a skeletal crew, sooooo....they tried to change a game that was dieing anyways to make it better and everyone flips cause there trying to do something,

    All they did was try to change a game that was dying anyways to make it better, you say.  An interesting way to think of what SOE did in SWG.  Here's what you seem to be missing.  I don't have time for a complete list so a summary will have to do: 

    They advertised revamps for squad leaders and rangers, and new features for Creature Handlers.  People paid for all that was advertised in a new expansion.  Immediately after payment was received for things promised in two dev chats, all of the professions mentioned were deleted.  People felt badly misled.  Customers discussed a class action lawsuit and were given a refund for the expansion.  However, SOE, as far as I know, kept all of the subscription money people paid to enjoy the features that SOE deleted.

    Many people, as a result, feel that a gross injustice was done, and that it hasn't been duly compensated to this day.

    That's one issue.  Another is what SOE did the virtual community that was SWG.  They encouraged people to build their characters, make friends, get married, build cities and communities, unlock the mystery of the jedi etc.  People of course did all of this.  Then on one day, all of this was nuked by something called the NGE.  Most of the professions people mastered were were simply deleted.  The quests they had been working on for years (yes years worth of actual quests) were removed from the game.  All of this quest progress was negated.  Those that unlocked the mystery of the jedi, found that it was all for nothing.  Most of their force powers were also deleted, and jedi became a starting profession.  Many of the new items in the new expansion were rendered useless.  Combat attributes that they modified ceased to exist.  Again, simply removed from the game.  Buy the new expansion to tame new creatures they were told.  Then creature handler was deleted.  The announcement for all the deletions came just 2 days after the relase of the expansion with all the new creatures to tame.

    If that's not enough information for you.  LEC and SOE told everyone they were making the game better.  In addition to the problem of misleading marketting, and all of the losses I've mentioned, the NGE rendered chat and movement systems both broken.  Combat abilities simply didn't fire, and heals healed enemies.

    If that's still not enough for you, we could talk about how people were invited to provide feedback on these changes on the forums.  However, when they did, their feedback was moved, locked or deleted and they were banned from posting.

    I could go on, but if anyone doesn't get the picture yet, I expect they simply don't want to.  

  • Posted: 5/10/08 11:44 PM
    Pirates of the Burning Sea
• • SWG, Ralph Koster and Team: Were they way ahead of their time?

  • I think Raph and his colleagues had a brilliant vision.  The whole online community feel of SWG at release was truly amazing.  The sense of endless possibilities for personal and community development really caught my interest.

    I still remember my rl band-mates asking me when they found out I played SWG, "dude are you a jedi?"  I said, "no I play in a band in the cantina."  They thought that was priceless.  Every time we got together for practice sessions, they wanted to hear stories about my online adventures.

    I see a few main issues that seemed to get in the way of this vision being realized.  The first is the fact that the game was pushed live in a horribly bug-ridden state.  It simply wasn't ready to play.  I see SOE's philosophy of using subscription revenues to fix a broken live game as a real contributing factor to this problem.  They simply should have taken the time, and financial investment necessay, to ensure the smooth release of a polished product.  They just didn't do what needed to be done.  They were impatient for the cash to start flowing in, so they rushed things and got the result you would expect.

    Another issue I think I see, is that some people simply aren't customers for a virtual community that gives you a lot of options and tools to create your own adventure.  They want a more directed gaming experience; something simpler and more linear.  I believe components like this could have been added to the original game system without nuking it.  SOE and LEC seemed to see these playstyles as mutually exclusive.  I would disagree.  The excellent games that I have played offer elements to people with many different play styles all at the same time. 

    SOE and LEC's all or nothing thinking (either open or directed gameplay, either crafting or looting, either grouping or soloing, etc. etc.) also helped to kill Raph's vision in my opinion.  So, in addition to things being slapped together and rushed out to try to make a fast buck, faulty all or nothing thinking really tanked this game and negatively impacted everyone connected to it, whether they were on the business or customer side of the deal.

  • Posted: 5/10/08 11:25 PM
    Star Wars Galaxies
• • SWG's EULA, a chance to give some feedback (poll)

  • Originally posted by doelmo
    

    If they didnt get them message with me and 80% of people leaving after combat upgrade,why do you think they will now?

     

    
    Frankly, I won't be surprised if they don't get the message.  If they do, it will probably because Smed is now accountable to someone else at Sony.  That may or may not be a significant change.  Time will tell.

    I suppose Smed might get a visit from the ghosts of Life Day past, present and future lol, but I'm not holding my breath.

    If they do listen and change their overall philosophy, nice.  Less pain and suffering for anyone who stumbles into any of their games.

    If they don't listen, at least this thread, and many others highlight how SOE does business, so people can make an informed decision about doing business with them.

     

  • Posted: 5/09/08 2:19 PM
    Star Wars Galaxies