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TERA : NCSoft US Lawsuit - Delay of Game?
Posted Jan 26, 2012 by Suzie Ford
On January 9th, a lawsuit was filed in New York Federal Court by NCSoft alleging that TERA Korean developer, BlueHole Studios, and US publisher, En Masse Entertainment, "makes use of NCsoft's trade secrets, including documents, source code, artwork and know-how related to the development on Lineage 3, and copyrighted works, including concept art created for Lineage 3."
While this is a new legal proceeding in the US, similar cases have been adjudicated in Korea between NCSoft and BlueHole Studios resulting in both criminal and civil convictions against BHS. Both decsions have, however, had portions overturned and remain in appeals courts in Korea.
Whether or not the complaint will have an impact on TERA's North American release date of May 1st remains unknown though the conventional wisdom says that NCS will file some sort of injunction against publication of TERA on May 1st.
En Masse's community manager, Evan Berman, had this to say on the official NA TERA forums:
Evening, folks. We're aware of this. It's our policy not to comment on legal matters.
We'll keep you posted as the story develops. In the meantime, read the legal documents on the New York Federal Court docket.
Source: MMORPG.com forum and MMOCulture.com.
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saw this coming, no way a US court will allow this game to come out. they were just waiting for a release date so they could strike.
When it rains it pours i guess.
I really dont know what to say of this
NCsoft has a fame of sueing everyone and their mother, but it is its hand feeding GW2 so I prefer to stay neutral
how do you figure?
This is probably fair on NC's behalf though, a number of people involved in this project are rotten to the core and where involved in the theft of of the L3 source code/assets.
Years of development stolen attempted to market to a unamed japanese company then when no bite Bluehole set up, Korean courts already ruled in NCSofts favour twice in fact extending sentances (suspended) and fines for blueholes owners.
That settled the issue in the east and I am not surprised to see NCSoft pursueing the same fines/compensation in the western market, if somebody had stole my work I would do the same based on territory it was being offered in.
They were found guilty of the crime in Korea, but their copyright laws somehow allowed TERA to continue to be made over there. that will not be happening on the other side of the world though.
Thank you for making me laugh
I wonder if this is part of the reason that Tera isn't doing so well in Korea. Not the lawsuit, but using code and resources from Lineage 3 and shoehorning it into another game.
If BHS did take code and other resources from NCSoft, they should be sued. The game's release should be held up. BHS should not profit from work that NCSoft owns. Beyond that, people shouldn't pay for a game that is sub par because the work from shoddy from the get go.
Good for NCSoft. Someone should not be able to profit off your work and something you financially backed for so long.
I think we shouldn't voice our opinion on this matter, the code was indeed stolen but probably the thief are the same people as those who worked on the code.
It's possible that they just think the code is their own since the worked on it.
Getting a bad feeling about this game. Wouldn't surprise me at this point, if after all this, it releases, only to turn out to be all hype and no subtance. I mean, when you see issues like this with a game, how often is it the work of otherwise brilliant creative developers?
Anyone who works for a corporation knows this is not true. Anything you do/create on company time is the property of that company and you will have signed paperwork saying as much.
Game dev are not that dumb, I assure you every single contract in this industry explicitty states that anything you work on whilst with the company is the company's property.
I work in the industry on the support CM side of things, I wrote lots of training manuals in respect of PC hardware and techcnial issues for a large company, I later resigned from this company but for my own records and future employment, I asked this company in writing for copies of these as I had lost the originals in format.
The company refused me even though it was my work and I could easily reproduce it because by right it was that companies property.
Yes I know that (working for a corporation myself) but what I mean is that maybe their implication in the work was so strong they didn't want to leave to ncsoft.
At least in korea the judge tought it was ok to let them release their game (although they had to pay a huge fine)
While typically by law this is true, something has to be said for the "little man". I have no facts here, but speaking hypothetically, say the individual(s) who stole this "code" actually wrote that code as well as any and all other assests "stolen"? Now consider these indvidual(s) were "let go" due to creative difference, or left due to it. Who's actual "work" is it?
This type of law to me on an artistic level is questionable. Be it music, art, film, gaming, etc... Many artists are basically robbed, there is just a lot wrong with that to me. This issue comes up all the time, sometimes artists win sometimes the stooges do, either way I think it's time this law was better defined as well as had more forms of compensation for the artist(s) themselves.
Reading more, I do find myself wondering.. did they steal actual code, or is it more that they're using some similar concepts? Like the action combat - can NCSoft really claim copyright of that, in concept alone?
hahahah, this game is so bad that it will never be released...
The information belongs to NCSoft because they hired and paid the programmers to come up with it.
We have contracts for this purpose.
Does "little man" mean thief?
"...say the individual(s) who stole this "code" actually wrote that code as well as any and all other assests "stolen"? Now consider these indvidual(s) were "let go" due to creative difference, or left due to it. Who's actual "work" is it?"
The company that was paying them to create it.
It doesn't matter how you frame it. Just because you don't like the rules doesn't mean you can make them up as you go. If you don't like them, work to change them.
I disagree. NCSoft has to have very damaging information that proves NCSoft's business will be damaged by such to cause the court to issue an injunction. Of course it depends on the judge, but I doubt the release will be affected.
Well, NCSoft's information was damaging enough to get BlueHole convicted in Korea. Unless some kind of major settlement is made, this game won't be coming out in the US.
I disagree, going to be highly difficult for NCSoft to prove this game is going to damage their business, especially since their own game is not even close to production. Not to say they won't get damages, but an injunction to stop the game, very doubtful.
The so-called 'damage' would be profits they won't be getting from a company that's using their stolen property. I'd say that would be sufficient.
Yet the game is actually online in Korea...
After a hefty settlement ... which, as I stated, would also probably allow TERA to releasein the US
My own experience is that judges and courts have no idea about programming and source codes, and will make their ruling based on factors outside actual understanding of the issue. A conviction means almost nothing except that it LOOKS like to a regular joe that they stole code.
Really Blizzard should sue Trion and Bioware lol.
Heh , it's funny because the same company (NCsoft) that supports botting , heck they even show you how to bot , is putting up a lawsuit?
That right there made my week and I'm working this week end LMAO!!! :P
Good stuff right there.
The legal side of me says good for NCsoft.
However, does anyone know if this will effect the UK launch as well? Not to be selfish but I have waited long enough for this game :D
Now that's a better tone to say it. More likely than not.
This is awful, I was really waiting for this game to come.
They Stole everything like 2-3 years ago and YES the Ncsoft employes were the ones who stole the codes but they went and created another company. So really even if they did help create it, it wasnt theres to take and take credit for so it didnt matter if they made it or not. Tera has failed hard in Korea, so im not going to be suprised if it fails here becuase the game is not good at all....ive played it many time in Korea. Then i played my friends us beta account, nothing to hype over.
I kinda want them to get introuble they have no right to take another companies game resources and go to make there own game and take credit for something they never made.
Burden of proof lies with NCsoft in this case, something they know thay cannot provide or win in court. But that is not what this lawsuit is about, This lawsuit is about giving bad media press to the competion and it will do just that. NC has very deep pockets so spending a little bit of money to hurt your rival is money well spent. These sort of things between rival companies happen all the time.
http://www.thisisgame.com/go/2011/01/20/bluehole-is-not-guilty-for-lineage-3/
BHS will not turn it into a media pissing contest (just like they did with the last lawsuit by NC), its not BHS style. They will ride it out and let the courts deside.
I don't necessarily believe that NCSoft is going to get all they ask for, even though I believe they're in the right for bringing this suit against BH. The main issue is that US courts are notoriously in the dark when it comes to gaming, especially online gaming and the internet in general, where they may as well be living under rocks.
Second, even if NCSoft does win, that doesn't mean you guys won't see TERA releasing here. NCsoft is developing Lineage 3 still, and likely with their prior proprietary knowledge stolen they've started from scratch (since years ago, when we first heard rumors of stolen tech for L3). I don't think NCSoft actually views TERA as a threat considering they've likely already moved beyond it, I think this is a suit based on the principle of the matter and the money. It's far more likely that, rather than stopping the game from releasing in the US, the companies will settle on money, perhaps even a percentage of the company's profits from the game.
In the end that's all any of this is ever about, and if NCSoft can get sufficient 'damages' from BH, you'll see TERA released here with little if any delay.
Umm where to start...
A number of the posters here seem to have decided that BLueHole is absolulty guilty and "Rotten to the core" etc with out posting any proof or even compeling sources. Having been a long time NCSOFT customer i am not so quick to condem bluehole.
I have looked online at and the best description of what acctualy is going on seems to be:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/01/26/ncsoft-seek-to-prevent-us-release-of-tera/
This shows a very different picture than Bluehole being some kind of bad guys here...
All I though was "Not really a good secret when people make use of it"
Yeah, after reading some of that legal document earlier, NCSoft starts looking like they're just trying to sabotage Tera, by dragging them down whether they have a real case or not - there's no mention of specific code that was stolen, or anything of that nature, as far as I could see. Just a lot about similar concepts, which are actually similar to a lot of other MMOs, too. Almost seems like maybe they're just being vindictive over employee disloyalty. Pretty despicable of NCSoft, if I'm getting it right.
When people say Lineage 3, is it Lineage Eternal? Or are they making two games of the same franchise at the same time?
L3 =/= lineage eternal, I'm pretty sure development of the latter started recently while the former was canceled years ago.
Essentially.
It was being called "lineage 3" and then the whole Tera thing happened and yadda, yadda, yadda, they are now workign on Lineage Eternal.
It's essentially the 3rd installment in the Lineage series. It's just being given a different name.
It sounds like they waited to make their move upon launch to make the most financial gain.
Courts don't work this way.
However, I don't know the whole story.
NCSoft has to prove that the source code stolen was proprietary information. I don't know how it works for other companies like NCSoft, but a person working on proprietary projects must sign a form stating that if they leave, what they're working on is the companies. This is what NCSoft has to prove. If they can't, then there won't be a leg to stand on.
They already did in Korea and won most of it, thats why they now do it too in the u.s.
I remember before the release of L2 a large portion of the code wa supposedly stolen which led to exploits , bots, gold farmers under every rock etc. Now Nc say that the source code for L3 has gone the same way. Either NC has the worst security ever in the games industry or they release portions of the code on purpose ( afterall they didn't exactly rush to get rid of the farmers in L2 did they ). This time however it seems that someone has had the nerve to actually use it in the production of another game instead of just finding the loopholes that can be exploited in L3 so out come the lawsuits. Here is an idea NC, keep the bloody code secret you morons.
It was ruled that BHS had stolen trade secrets and damages where awarded. That sounds like a win for NCsoft.
How can you keep the code secret from the people that make the code? as they are the ones that supposedly stole it.
AFAIK there's an international law on computer code stating that if a code is 'stolen' from someone else and less than (x)% of the original code is changed, the code is still of the one who claimed it was stolen.
Now I figure that since in 2007 the L3 code (actually only the modified Unreal3 engine) was stolen and in 5 years that BHS was able to add more than the% I mentioned before, I highly doubt that NCSoft has any ground on which to claim the code is still theirs...
Anyways... After all this time waiting, I have my doubts on TERA. It kinda failed in Korea and Japan recently merged 75% of their servers. THis just makes me wonder if TERA will be worth to play or I should wait for NCSoft to come up with L3 in a year or 2...
Not sure how you get that from the piece. According to the article it resulted in jail sentences in Korea. It concludes
It does look like they have a pretty strong case here, and this could mean a significant delay for TERA, perhaps even kill it dead. We’ll keep you posted.
I think we Cannot be so sure? It says "similar cases have been adjudicated in Korea between NCSoft and BlueHole Studios resulting in both criminal and civil convictions against BHS. Both decsions have, however, had portions overturned and remain in appeals courts in Korea."
See, what I'm making out of this is that the court has not charged BHS with anything yet.
Almost impossible to do, these were employes working on the assets they stole. You can remove USB ports from PC's but the only real way of stopping people transferring stuff out is no internet, blocking port 21 (ftp) aint going to do it.
So essentially they have twice been found guilty (once on appeal) sure a portion was overturned but essentially it was upheld. I understand from the other linked article that the case is now at the highest court in Korea. Nowhere left for them to go after that one.
As much as I would like to see TERA be released, I don't think anyone should be allowed to get away with stealing source code from another company and using it in another game. If it can be proven that this was indeed done with TERA, they should not be allowed to release the game.
I doubt NCSoft would benefit much by killing TERA. I think they're more interested in settling for a lot of cash than in killing something that could make them money.
Yeah, keep the code secret from the coders, way to go.
Yeah can't see how that does anyone any good. You know what I had a wierd 'I wonder if one day Terra will end up in the NCsoft stable' moment, then I thought about it and realised it was pretty foolish.
The story goes like this.
The former leaders of project Lineage 3 where found guilty because they stole the code and apparently intended to sell it but it was never proven in court that the code was used to make TERA. This is why TERA is still standing in Korea.
too bad not every corp do so, and they still have to prove you used "theyr" time to do it, still funny part is no way to us know if they used the code or not if they don't show us the code :)
Sorry to sound like a broken record.
But will this effect the UK/EU launch as well as the NA one? I am not aware of any court case this side of the pond.
possible it will I don't remember they saying the EU would be a diferent from NA, is still the same publisher, in worse case scenario they could just do a ip block to NA and let all the rest access to it