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General : F2P Gamers Movement Founded
Posted Sep 10, 2010 by Suzie Ford
A new website has cropped up to give voice to free-to-play fans around the world. The goal of the Free To Play Gamers Movement is to bring players together to form a collective voice to bring better quality to the F2P movement. Other goals include bringing high quality games like World of Warcraft into the F2P market, revamping in game item shops that destroy balance and to look for ways to reduce grind.
Nowadays, a large number of games are advertised as free-to-play, getting all the hype but failing to deliver. A lot of them are nothing but glorified demos, asking players for money to continue playing. Aggressive marketing leads to a bad reputation to the free-to-play market, resulting in deluded and disappointed players. This is just one example of what needs to change to guarantee the future of the free to play model.
Find out more at the F2PMovement.com site and sign onto the revolution!
How about changing the whole "f2p" term from something a little more honest. Since in order to actually play most so-called f2p games you end up have to pay for something. PAYING is NOT f2p in the truist sense of the term. If there is a reason to be AGAINST such a thing as a F2P Gamers Movement, it is becaue people are being lied to about what f2p actually is or does and this "movement" does nothing to change that.
If they were actually F2P I'd support you, but I have yet to run across a F2P game that was truly F2P without some kind of catch to pull in money. I was fooled recently with league of legends (not an mmo) all my friends swore it was f2p but any of the good toons have to be bought with RL cash, just like all F2P games. I'm actually against most F2P since you have to pay more anyway to get value out of the game then you would if you had just had a monthly fee to begin with. High quality games like SWTOR and WoW won't be free to play for years to come and even if they do become that, it will be like LOTR is and going F2P to try and save themselves from going bankrupt, not because it is the better business model. And why would you want all game's to be F2P? The quality of said titles would drop significantly and we'd all be left getting nickeled and dimed every step of the way. I don't really approve of F2P or pushing for more F2P games but ya know what? That's just my opinion and I wish you and your site the best of luck in the future.
Lol at the guy above me. League of legends IS f2p. You earn points during matches which you can use to purchase runes/champions etc. before you start talking get your facts right.
lol at this little jabroni. LoL is f2p if you read what I said, it charges for all the good charecter's and spare outfits. You can't buy the other outfits with points earned and you have to play for a rediculous amount of time to earn enough points to "buy" another toon. Like all F2P games , anything good will cost you RL money. Get your facts straight before you make a fool of yourself on a forum by being a blind fanboi. I wasn't bashing LoL, just stating the obvious that nothing of value is free in that game or most any F2P games.
I guess your definition of "rediculous" is different to most people.
It isn't hard to earn enough to unlock multiple toons, or fill out entire rune sets.
You should consider taking your own advice, and get your facts straight ;)
Free 2 Scam.
LOL, well, whatever you'll get what you ask for and the quality of gaming will continue to drop like lead shot in the ocean. Might as well start rocking away on your Xynga games on Facebook, 5 years from now all your AAA MMO's will be the same quality.
I've seen this said multiple times about many different F2P games, its rarely true.
Rather than encourage F2P I'd prefer to see the movement crushed. Not one F2P game has shown me that it's worth playing, maybe until that happens I'll remain a skeptic.
I've been on both sides of it, so i can understand why you are a sceptic, but LoL is one of those games where it is, infact, true, an example of where it isn't true, that i've played, is Allods.
their is plenty of fun f2p games that u can play from start to finish without spending any money. and actually be as equal as the p2p fella beside ya. thing is sum games have taken it too far n take too much away n make ya pay more for it. but their is a fair amount out their that is fun and also sum coming out soon. i won't say the names. But if you people are true gamers then u would know all f2p /p2p and b2p games out their (give ya hint theirs a few not even on this site). Google is your friend. So start looking and you'll be amazed at wat u find :-)
In reality, it IS FREE to play. You don't have to buy their cash shop items to continue to play. You'll be on the disadvantage side compared to those paying for CS items but like I said, F2P is F2P.
its Free to PLAY, but in some games its one of : "pay to advance", "pay to not grind", "pay to look cool", etc. If Free to PLAY, but you pay for "more fun".
I see, so we have a politician gamer at last!
F2P will always rely on RMT, these games really can't survive from selling fluff only. The balance needs to be bent with money in order to draw people that already like that game. Even LOTRO and DDO feature these.
This! I don't know why people think ANY company is just gonna say hey, play our game free we don't like money, we actually like losing it by providing you this service out of our pockets.
I think the movement should be 'friends don't let friends play bad games' , I mean honestly, you shoot yourself in the foot when you play one of these bad games.
Maybe these games should load them up with advertisements and whatnot so you could play completely for free, but we'd bitch about that too right ?
If F2P is as fantastic as its proponents claim, why does it need a propaganda-fueled website to convince people? Surely the merits of the business model itself will allow it to spread in popularity (or die a gruesome death, whichever).
You know, capitalism, and may the best man win.
I'm still for Buy to Play business model personally. Don't hear a lot of gamers complaining about them. Though, now I've said that... :P
Completly agree with their description. Lord of the Ring fits in that category perfectly. Yes it's free to play or free to log as i like to call it. But gameplay is so restricted that you are forced to buy stuff to progress in any meaningful manner.
Real free to play game are rare, Guild Wars is a good example of a true F2P game.
Eh you can PLAY LotrO for FREE
But you have to PAY to PLAY Guild Wars.
But your conclusion is that LotrO is NOT free to play but GW is?
I don't understand your logic.
You do realize that you have to pay real money just to get a mount in LotRO, and you also can't play the whole game without buying the expansions, so guess what, its not quite F2P
And you are completely wrong with Guild Wars, its B2P, as in "Buy to Play", learn your terms.
The people need to read the F2P Movement site, and do something, instead of just complaining...
lol theres no f2p games.
I tried a few but end up spending more in 1 month than I would on a P2P in 1 year ::P
Self control is your friend.
While I am a purist about many things, there is a practical side that does prevent F2P games from being totally free.
We must remember that the companies that put these games out are out there to make money. They have costs and expenditures that need to be satisfied, just like every other business out there, so if they didn't charge for some things, at least, and stay in business. Go out of business and the game goes away with the company.
However, they could still make money with expansions that people can buy, as long as the expansions do not prevent players from continuing the game without it.
My wife and I have played EQ, EQII, WoW and LOTRO. EQII just went F2P and we are enjoying it well enough, but we have to do without the choices and options that we had as subscribers. In LOTRO, we started when the game first came out and spent the money on lifetime memberships. For us it has been true F2P for us after the 1st year and a half. Yes, we paid fo the expansions, after that, but it is still worth it.
If, as I suspect, that F2P is the growing wave of the future of gaming, then it is not so bad as some folks make it out to be. Particularly if the game manufacturers can balance profit motive with what the gamers want, in an equitable manner.
LOL, the blind are posting. Tried the game, your definition of isn't hard and what the rest of world considers the meaning is, has a huge gap between it.
Like the man said that game is far from free!
As to the movement, the best way to get these games to change their greedy designs is not to play them. A website is going to have no effect.
A better solution is a movement to get those that spend freely in these games to stop or at least cut back. As long as people continue to dump money into these games, they will not change.
I like this website. It's Free to Whine at it's best.
Agreed.
My experience thus far, is that "F2P" is just a marketing gimmick used by low budget producers that put out products that can't compete with the major producers, or as a way to attempt to soak the weak willed for more $$$ than a sub fee.
Either way, not interested.
I think you guys need to take the F2P term literally. The games are "free" to play. TO PLAY. Not neccesairly to complete, or to max level a character or to raid or to PVP etc etc etc. The term literally means you can log on for free, run around for free and kill stuff for free. Beyond that refer to the cash shop for the pay aspect of the games.
People see the term F2P and assume that everything should be included. You don't have to have max stats, max armor, or be able to raid to be able to "play."
It's nice that they want quality F2P games, but it's simply not going to happen. You can't get a good quality game with a game that is actually free, because you can't pay the developers... which is the next point, F2P games aren't free, because of cash shops -- which the existence of diminishes the quality of said game. It's a vicious circle of delusion bred from marketing.
P.S.
Where's the P2P movement? You know, the people who are sick of F2P creep in the form of microtransactions and just want to pay their monthly subs to get full access to games without the developers trying to milk them like cattle.
How about a movement to get cheapskates to realize that you get what you pay for and making video games isn't a charity.
If you want better quality then pay for it.
If you want to play a game for free then don't whine that you have to pay to get certain features.
So tired of these people.
You know those people who, after a while of listening to them yell their views, you want to join the other side out of spite? So yeah, don't know why the anti-F2P's zealots are trashing this particular site. Read the mission statement on the site - It basically addresses the vast majority of the complaints against the genre, and states that they need to be fixed.
------------------------------
• We all know there are thousands of players in the world of free to play games, but the goal is to bring all of them together in one place and join forces and expertise. One player's opinion hardly matters, but the strength of a community makes all the difference. Help us reach millions of gamers.
• Previously paid games like Everquest II, Dungeons and Dragons Online and Lord of the Rings Online already jumped into the free to play wagon. One of our goals is to bring more quality multiplayer games such as World of Warcraft to the free to play model. (Blizzard already said that Free-to-play World of Warcraft is a possibility, so let’s make them hurry up with a decision).
• Confirm that there is a market for developers to invest more in Free to Play games and thus increase their quality standards, especially in new games.
• Change the games that define themselves as free to play and yet block almost the entire game, acting like a demo version. It is understandable that payments can unlock content, but, for example, monopolize a game that has 100 cities and only allow to play freely in one town or only up to level 9, when there are 80 levels to achieve… This is not our definition of Free to Play.
• End with the games that sell in-game items that disrupt the entire balance of the game. In those cases the player with the most items wins, so it’s just not fun and a lot of players end up giving up on the game and making it fade into oblivion. In-game stores should sell items, yes, but aesthetical or others that won’t give unfair advantages to any player.
• More quality instead of quantity.
• Better service and better solutions for hackers, spammers, and bots.
• Less grinding and more in the way of actual content.
I find the website a complete joke.. I told the guy behind it when he was posting all over mmorpg.com about it that it would never work.
F2P games have to make money just like all other games. If you don't like a aspect about a game and it bugs you so much.. maybe you should just find another game to play? Why try to force your views or yours and a few friends views on other people that enjoy a game the way it is.
Actually, every single toon in the game is free to play in a rotation. Every week or 2 they switch it up so you get a new set of free toons to play. Moreover you can buy the characters with IP which you get for playing games. I've bought 6 of them so far in 3 weeks of playing and haven't spent a penny. Any characters you buy are perma unlocked but you can still play any of the others who happen to be up on rotation. Granted, a lot of f2p games are not f2p; League of Legends IS f2p though.
It seems to me that it's time to start up an Anti-Free to Play movement.
The vast majority of so-called "F2P" is absolute rubbish, and it simply isn't worth it for developers and gamers to have every MMO released free to play.
First of all, I am absolutely opposed to nickel-and-diming of gamers in modern video games. I won't buy DLC for any of the single player games I play, and my days of buying crap for an MMO are at an end. The modern video game industry no longer makes games to bring fun and entertainment to gamers (with the side effect of profit) but they now focus on making a profit above all other considerations. Having all MMOs become free to play is just encouraging the industry to slant more in this direction.
Second, attempting to stamp out other legitimate business models in favour of a single model just seems all sorts of bad. This reminds me of the RIAA attempting to prevent all types of online music distribution because they are afraid of such models. I don't want that kind of backwards thinking creeping into the MMO industry.
Third, the quality of games is going to suffer if they go free to play. They say they want to encourage developers to create good quality free to play games, but on the whole those two concepts, "good quality," and "free to play," are mutually exclusive. With a game with a monthly subscription, the developers of said game are assured a regular monthly income, initial box sales can offset a lot of costs for development, and lots of content updates can be released that the subscriber doesn't ever have to pay for (because they pay monthly.) If MMOs were to go free to play, then we can say goodbye to the continued development of the game, and hello to the continued development of the item shop.
In all, I hate the idea of this stupid movement, and I think it looks suspicious. That's a pretty slick logo and website they've got there. I know professional web developers and those types of things are not cheap at all.
The only game with an actual real free to play version in my opinion is Anarchy Online. Which is kind of funny since the game is 10x better than most of the f2p trash that comes out.
Truthiness!
How about MT2P? or F(MT)2P?
Or F2P, bMtPW [Free to Play, but Money to Play Well]
For every one person like you there are nine people who enjoy the game without ever spending a dime.
Wow, a bunch of freeloaders whining about the freemium model. Who would have guessed.
If you want quality, pay for it. Or make it yourself. There are some open source MMOs out there.
It's expensive to develop and run servers for an MMO. That money has to come from somewhere. Stop asking for a handout. Get a job (that's the ultimate MMO, anyways).
If you think LoL is hard to unlock toons/runes, then perhaps you should stick to scrabble.
You know I'm sick and tired of the entire F2P vs P2P "Debate." Seriously. It's all crap.
I suggest we start a "End to Crappy Games" site. Just destroy all crap games no matter the pay type. Sheesh.
I would love for everyone of you people who are bashing F2P MMOs to name me 1 single P2P that has been worth more then garbage since WoW. War, AoC, Aion, D&D, LotRO, Champions, Star Trek, all have been garbage. Though you people are more then willing to throw your money away for games like that but a game that doesn't force you to pay then it's a scam? Most of you people need your heads examined.
EVE, EQ2, granted they came out before WoW but they are still around.
Also WAR is not that bad.
Oh and BTW EvE is the ONLY game that is truly F2P. Where else can I buy 30 days game time with IN-GAME money? And still have full access to the entire game?
So only EvE is a F2P game and yet also Pay2Play game as well. CCP For the win!
Lots of gamers and confused people need to undertand that the free to play model it´s not just about playing without spending money, but instead giving players the flexibility to choose where to spend, when, and how they want to do it, allowing the player to control how much he wants to spend.
It simply makes no sense to be forced to pay a fee for hours that we will not use.
You can find this info in the F2P Movement Site....
*FTP
Game company X is not responsible for excessive expenses required to play as non-gimped with all the features available. "Free" is defined as any nickel and diming to our peon-customers that company X can get away with legally and still be defined as "FREE". Company X reserves the right to incur more nickel and diming of our peon-customers as many times as Company X deems warranted in the future.
They can have their webiste, I will respectfully aviod it like the plauge.
Thanks but no thanks.
I agree.
The F2P market is just a marketing gimmick and it's a lie. There's no way you can experience a F2P game decently. ... without paying.
Example:
If you play Lotro for "free" you are limited to 2 Gold ... I'd say these games are nothing more than a business scam.
I wonder if the guys supporting this F2P site are as naive as they look.
Suddenly coming out of the blue just when the company behind Lotro/DDO turns "F2P".
No coincidence. And - like all F2P games - this will not make Lotro into a multi million (dollar) success either.
It is just a very mediocre and dull game, like all F2P games.
Yeah that site is not astroturfing at all *rollseyes*.
We don't want our subscription games to turn into cash shop games where real money buys your way to victory, thank you.
If I considered $15 a month throwing my money away, well then I'd have MUCH MUCH bigger problems then worrying about gaming. Even someone who works for minimum wage can afford a p2p MMO subscription. It's been repeated on here a million times, it is cheaper to play an MMO then most other forms of entertainment out there.
If $15 is hurting your budget then you shouldn't be playing video games and should instead be working on finding a job.
Good to see some people can wake up to reality as there is NO SUCH THING as FREE to play,end of story.
Instead the movement should read "Leechers are us" since they leech off of the money spent by other players in that game.This is no different than staring up a welfare movement,sure it must be great if people are paying your way.
That site is a gimmick to drive him popularity and sales lolz. Some big high and mighty guru bent on controlling the voices of concern already addressed on this forum. Sell the information on the net previously posted to potential advertisers and developers for a quick profit in the long run. Most people that whine do not know anything about business or business modeling.
Businesses need to make money, and most offer things for free to try, to play with, to interact with. You heathens want a game for free, where you get access to ALL the goodies for nothing. That being said how would you then support a game like that? There has to be some kind of catch to make them money. The people that whine aren't working, aren't able to buy some really cool stuff from cash shops. Go back to your xbox, but wait you need to pay for live memberships as well. You freeloaders need to learn that Free To Play is to play the game for free, not get addons for wardrobe and upgrades for free. Those are offered for people who don't freeload.
Most game models do screw up. Perfect World attempted to fix this by making it able to purchase their ZEN with in game currency, which would drop the acts of criticism that everyone puts on the cash shop models. But then again the FREELOADERS want to be able to farm incredible amounts of in game currency for NO INVESTED TIME and with NO EFFORT. People have gotten lazy, unappreciative of the games on the market. Their fat heads and egos are too big, so they decide to want everything handed to them for free.
Even if a game came along with all the problems addressed in it, people would still complain and flame about it. If you seriously think that these bunch of flaming morons would even support a game that would be revolutionized in the Free To Play industry, your wrong. They only want to steal, hack and fart their way to the top of a mmo instead of trying to work for it. I don't support grind, but imagine a game with little to no grind, loads of content, mini games, additional costumes and items for pets and mounts in cash shop at reasonable prices. THEY WOULD WHINE STILL, WANTING TO EXPERIENCE FOR FREE LIKE SOME SORTA GANGSTER. THEY WOULD RATHER SELL ILLEGAL THAN PAY TAXES AND WORK FOR THIER MONEY.
Now the option is left to ignore these people as they talk very big, but don't act very big at all. You can whine all you want, but like I said, once you start flapping your gums in the wind, you're addicted and won't stop even if you got your way.
If ANYONE for any reason is capable of spending REAL MONEY on something in one of the so-called f2p games then how is it FREE? It does not make a difference if someone can play without spending money. What makes it NOT be a f2p game is the fact that the games DO charge real money for something. That is NOT free to play. Not arguing if it is right or wrong other then the fact that using the term free to play is not ethical. Of course, when people hear that word "FREE" they are drawn to it like bears to a honeycomb. And just like the bears, if they want all the game has to offer, they eventually get stung.
isnt the idea behind a consumers' movement that if their demands/concerns arent met/addressed..
...they'll take their money elsewhere?
eve, lotr, and city of heroes were all pretty far from garbage.
I would att l2 in there too, but i'm not sure if it's older, or younger than wow.
Agree that we need to open Anti-F2P movement too, or those f2p-fanboys just crying over the world loudly and gaming companies show their mind then - ya all wanna this, ya all vry for f2p. Damn it be, burn in hell, f2p and it's movement.
If ya look founder, he working in some gaming co., so ot's web is payed by f2p companies to spend lies and lies. fact.
If they say that devs need more money for content then I agree to pay not USD 15, but 20 or 25 or even 30 if it IS really good old-school real MMO not some wow-clone I never touched and never be. In last LOTRO started as good and nice game, tho there were so many instances and goods for everyone. But at end of 2009 it changed to crappy grind-fest and I'm glad I left it before that f2p move. That is really death to Middle Earth, R.I.P.
And all those lies even here - ya can play LOTRO for free too - NO, I can't. I am never interested in sitting in starting area and be some nerd noob. I wanna end-game but there ya must pay in f2p and pay very big dimes and nickls. Some pro-gamers-raiders in DDO have sayd to be on top level one must pay about 50 or more USD per WEEK! At minimum. And ya call it free???
What is my wish for f2p? - Buy Shell's giftbox (can of gas and matches), pour over ya co and light it!
F2P is a marketting strategy taken up by gaming companies. There are many who oppose this strategy, those who see the reality of the situation in the long run, but obviously the number of people who do not see this reality far outnumber those who see it. The game companies take the vast mass majority who fall for this gimmick and give them way higher priority than the minority who have grasped the truth: thus more and more game companies are switching to F2P. They have all done their homework, statistics and math, and F2P is more profitable for them in the long haul. Its here to stay unless, the majority of gamers somehow wake up and smell the flowers with regards to F2P. The gaming community of players itself is what makes a company decide which marketting strategy to implement. So in an ironical sense , "WE" ourselves have brought about this trend.
I don't get why so many are so aggressively against F2P - no one is forcing you to play. And I agree with what's been said. It is free to "play" - as a gamer from the 70's, when gaming was done P&P (pen & paper style) todays games are graphically amazing. I was a player of Might & Magic - with it's early graphics it's laughable in comparison to what's currently available. Yet many still like & play the "retro style" games. (SNES, Nintendo & Gameboy + early pc games.)
Gamers play because it's our passion, to escape things for a short time. To recharge, reduce stress & to take a mini vacation in a world we've far more control over than our own - or so it often seems. How we do this is a personal choice - no one has the right to tell us what we can or can't play. It's called free will & the right to choose - if you don't like it find something else - no one is forcing you to like any MMO or stopping you from playing in the way you wish.
I've played B2P - Guild Wars which I've had for years & still enjoy playing. I've all the expansions & eagerly await the GW2 which promises a very interesting gaming style. I love the detail & quality of the graphics within it although the intensity can often be exhausting - lol. But it's just MHO.
I've played P2P - EQ, EQII, WoW, Shadowbane, DoC, as well as others. But with the economy, life changes & for other reasons I've cut out all P2P gaming. Even as a gamer, other priorities were more important than paying to play. To pay for several memberships was just too costly, so for me I chose another way to get my "gamers fix" without the cost. For those that only pay for one, the cost is relatively fair for a month of entertainment. But for a family that likes to play together, or group of friends - those costs can be too much over multiple game accts. & subscriptions. The station pass from Sony does offer a good bargain for the multiple game accts. but for some it's still out of reach.
I've played F2P - I discovered a whole world of F2P games when I went looking, from Shaiya, Mega10, Silkroad, Rohan, Fly4Fun, Luna, Perfect World to Pirates of the Carribean, DDO, Wizard 101 & SotNW - with dozens of others inbetween. Some are fun to play, others can be frustrating to learn at first, while others are just social games to meet up in with friends & family. Something to do together when you live far apart & want to stay connected. (But then I'm from a large family of gamer types - what better way to spend some time together online.)
I'm still a big bejeweled, bookworm & word search fan - playing online or off when the urge hits me. Many of the "web only" games offer the games free to play, but you would need to buy them to play anytime offline. I've been called strange by my sister cause I play bookworm to clear my head & help me think. When a word game goes hours & has me in the 30's level - it's good mental exercise, plus it gives me a place to use all those big & small words in my head that don't get used much.
So this site wants to promote some balancing changes in the F2P market. It's still free to dream & create, to make a website about a hobby or passion (preferably PG for myself, I'm not interested in the more violent & darkside obsessions out there. Even though those can most likely be found on the web too.) If others of like mind wish to join up - it's their right to be free to do so. If others aren't in agreement, they can ignore it or put up a site offering their own opinion. It's up to everyone to choose what they wish to promote. (even in comments and opinion posts)
Negativity, hate, ignorance, bigotry & untruths or positive, love, intelligence, tolerance & truth.
We all have a choice how we express ourselves - how we wish to communicate & be heard. We're all responsible for what we say, do, think & share.
IMHO I wish more posters would stop to think, before sharing their thoughts to temper them to the audience that is viewing them. It would be nice if we would listen to our better selves & avoid harsh words or condemnation. But the societies of the world hold many views - which is why so many seek out alternate worlds to "live" in, even if it's just in short visits.
Carpe Diem & Carpe Noctum
Gamers, game on!
A few interesting points in this thread.
F2P Group? Yeah, consumer groups really only have power when they can take their business elsewhere.
In most cases business = money... but in this case it is possible that simply by being there they offer something? What i mean is that no-one likes playing in an empty MMO world. In Spellborn for example - many people complainedthat the world was 'empty'. Maybe a few thousand F2P players could have helped populate it and encourage the P2Pers? In DDO the world certainly feels more alive with a lot of people running about... and of course the more people that are there the more potential customers there are?
Cash Shops and F2P
How exactly do people think these companies should make their money to stay in business?
I play DDO (have for a year) and have never spent a single cent on it (Yes! I am a cheapskate!) But I have a quality many people seem to lack? I have self control. I also have patience. I don't mind waiting to build up enough Favor to earn Turbine Points... in fact, as a Perma Deathplayer it is something that isn't really even a grind, it's a part of gameplay.
Simply as a result of playing I have built up enough Turbine Points to buy 4 Modules and if I ever complete all the content in those (tough to do as a Perma death player) I will have earnt enough Favor/TP to buy at least one more...and so on.
But, I don't begrudge Turbine making money off some kid who jumps into the game and wants to prove how 133t he is by zerging all the content and buying a +3 Greataxe and purple hair. Good on them. It really doesn't concern me - I found my +3 Greataxe in game and I don't need purple hair (although one of my characters did win a lottery and won.... purple hair!)
I think the thing that has turned many off F2P models is that many companies were greedy. You needed a +3 Greataxe to complete a certain dungeon and the only way to get it was in the shop. Well, don't support those games. I support the 'non greed' model that Turbine run.
Remember that at the end of the day they cannot actually make you enter your Credit Card details... that is entirely up to you.
F2P game quality
Please. Be serious.
Lack of quality in MMOs is not restricted to F2P games. I am sure that many of you can remember more than a couple of sub based MMOs that were more than lacking? Again, not really an issue for F2P customers alone. An issue for everyone.
The fact is... make a judgement for yourself on whether a game is 'worth' the money you are paying for it. If not - move on. In the case of F2P games - if you choose not to pay then the only cost involved is your time. Is the game worth your time?
PS I do currently have a sub for an MMO running - so I don't mind paying subs. It's just that at the moment I don't see the need. In future I may sub to other MMOs - but sadly I cannot see anything coming on the horizon that looks like it might be worth it. Until a great MMO arrives - I will continue to spend my time in 'quality' F2P games. And I might sub to EvE too - we'll see.
Haaa, whatta oxymoron - "quality f2p" :P
Thjere is no quality cuz if there would, company would set the price and ppl would pay.
They need not tricky ppl in promising free and then starting to milk them,
Is LOTRO now quality? far from this, I left it at sub time due no quality content but mindless repeated grind. Same was with DDO - if turbine wpuldn't change it f2p that gameserver must be turned off. LOTRO which had at good times maybe like 300K players lost big part and ended up nearly only lifers in it. Again after throwing away real Tolkien's IP loving devs and buying in truck full of cheapo asian programmists to copy-paste they lost all, and f2p crap was last saviour.
If there will born "Really Quality" game, P2P - OK, I'm ready to pay double to that unwritten 15$. If it good, nice modern graphics and animation, no stupid manga-emo faces, normal content (not copy from WoW I personallu hate too) which will be added to game so that there is allways something to do even when ya play 5 hrs per day. If there is economy mostly player driven, if there is open world with adventure and dangers, with no instances, where some achivements are such - only few per server and even then very hard to find, if there be challenge - I would pay even more.
But f2p model is such due lieing to customers. Ppl woudn't pay for lame gameplay 100$ / week. But as f2p they pay 10$ todaay, 25$ tomorrow and when not counting end up with 100-200$ per week. That is all glory of f2p -ya, player, are cow whom to milk.
The only problem I have is with some publishing exec or developer more with a mind to making a buck than producing a good game trying to bring traditional F2P elements, such as being able to buy levels or gear that effect play with real money rather than earn them in to the kinds of game I like to play. If Blizzard decides to make a F2P version of WoW, that could even help the kind of player and developer that prefers the game that requires more effort by moving the population that prefers less effort to different servers.
However, WoW devs have been reluctant to make different play characteristics in cases where it would benefit different types of players such as PvP and PvE, so I am very skeptical that this would be a good idea. The same is true of any other publisher or game: if the effort isn't there to make the difference, then please don't make aF2P version.
;)
From a marketing standpoint, this is a brilliant project. I wouldn't be surprised if those that are vehemently against it do more to generate awareness of the site than those who actually support it.
wha??
F2P is free to play to an extent. It has its limits. If you subscribe then you have full game access as well as all the little nice things like mounts, etc. However, if you don't subscribe then to be able to go over a certain level, have unlimited use of auction house, mail, and be able to have mounts, etc. then you have to purchase them from the store web site.
So it is F2P if you don't want all that. I haven't figured it up but I am guessing if someone was to figure it up you would probably find that you are spending more over all than you would if you just subscribe to the game and bought the expansions.
So in one aspect it is free but over the long haul it by far is not.
making world of warcraft f2p, wow seriously? does mmorpg staffs every kid now? maybe you should pay wages or tell them to get a real job, f2p is bane, there is nothing free nor should be, f2p games are worth playing while they are in beta, once beta over game is dead , no self respecting gamer will play f2p games
Actually, it's the other way around sometimes.
You see - if you buy the packs you own them forever - so you can take as long as you like to do them. But you don't have access to packs/modules/zones you never brought. So a year from now you can still log in and access the stuff you brought.
Whereas if you subscribe you have access to everything but only while you maintain your subscription. You drop your subscription and you get locked out. If you become a long term subscriber you reach a point where you have paid more than if you had just brought the modules.
So, if you are the sort of player that likes to play MMOs, complete them, and then move on very quickly then subscription is almost certainly cheaper. If you want to try new content you need to re-subscribe.
But, if you are the sort who plays infrequently, maybe doesn't want to complete everything - or you just want to 'cherry pick' the best content and perhaps you want to come back over an extended period then buying the modules you want might work out cheaper. But if new content comes out - you will have to buy it. And if you buy stuff and lose interest then you payed for something you will never use.
Fixed it for you... clearer?
Change the name from f2p to ugwupf2p (You get what you pay for to play)
Getting into a P2P game costs more then 15 a month. You have to buy the game first, genius. If the game isn't popular then it sucks, cause without a decent community an MMO fails. I hope you have enough sence to figure that one out. So instead of wasting 15, you wasted around 60 dollars since you have to actually buy the game. Also before you even bring up console games, I can get a console game used and take it back for a full refund if I don't like it. You can't refund an MMO, I got lucky one time I sold my Darkfall account to someone so I didn't waste that 60 bucks. At least learn the cost of an MMO before retorting to a statement about throwing money away.
I would probably put more weight in what you say if your thinking was at least logical - but it isn't.
Here's why;
You say you would never touch a F2P game because of the poor quality - yet you admit that you played BOTH DDO and LotRO when they were subscription games?
They were subscription games yet they lacked 'quality'. So the F2P wasn't the issue was it?
Since then they have both gone F2P - so if anything they have had MORE dev time put into them than when you played them last?
So when they were subscription games - you had no problem trying them? Didn't you read any reviews? How is it you were so surprised that they were lacking? Why didn't you avoid them back then?
Yet now they are F2P you don't consider them worthy to even try?
How do you feel about games that offer 'Endless free trials' then? AoC and WAR for example?
I've spent more money on worthless subscription-based games than I have on F2P games. F2P hasn't cornered the market on digital garbage. At least with F2P, I'm not forced to put down a dime up front and can take as long as I want to decide whether or not I wish to continue with it.
As for the free part of the content, in DDO you can have a perfectly viable character and full access to months worth of content without visiting the item shop. If you want "DA BEST"(TM) or "DA COOLEST"(TM), which is generally reflected by the tiniest of percentages difference, then be prepared to pay out. I won't speak for all F2Ps out there since I haven't played them, but any item shop using a similar model is perfectly fine by me.
Bleh F2P is already damaging many decent software companies IMHO. I don't support the whole movement, cause in the end YOU SHOULD NOT EXPECT SOMETHING FOR NOTHING.
What the software companies SHOULD learn from this is that AT LEAST they should offer extended free trials AT RELEASE, so as to not damage their own reputation and force people not to trust them any more (when they buy unfinished garbage betas instead of polished products - think Age of Conan, or more recently Elemental: War of Magic).
I actually really like LOTRO's model. Granted I really wish they would bring the price down on points, as I personally feel they are too much for what you get. HOWEVER, I think this kind of gaming should be high quality and retain high customer service. Too many F2P games are asian grinders and no matter how hard I try to get into them I just cannot.
I love the thought of being able to go a couple months of not playing w/out thinking 'Geez im wasting this subscription'. I also like the a' la carte idea of the whole model. Granted, anyone with a braincell will just pay 14.99 a month sub, but i'd love to see a compnay come out of the woodwork without the rediculous prices for points, and more options for picking and choosing the content you want.
This is just the beginning. In the next 5 years I would bet 5 gold that all studios, including Blizzard, will have a F2P model.
That is thing, I even don't say against different models, be so that dumbasses will play f2p (like in EQ2) in different servers.
But I don't tolerate cheating with wallet in same server. If there will come somea.holes with their big fat wallets of their fathers, and then jumping into game like "big-doers" even don't knowing basics of their class or skill, forgive me, I don't tolerate that.
That is like buying rights of doping use in Olympics, like buying medals for money. Ya say - me cheap, havn't enough buskc, maybe, maybe not - but I wanna challnge at equal skills and knowledge not wallet. See I will never can fight against Bahrein's sultan's wallet - he will forever beat me with dollars, but maybe not in game. That is game I wanna, not some kind of run "who have more bucks" - sorry if ya don't understand this. And don't start cash-shops are onöy for cosmetics - I havn't seen any f2p which isan't turned into Buy4Win cuz ya havn't so many cosmetic fags who will pay every day for new costume or color.
So, to make their profit they will put in shops B4W items, sooner or later, and design their games so, that on end-game ya can't do w/out buying expensive amounts of stuff.
like i said on many other posts...and the posts from people on this thread prove it...
The free to play games are free to play....but the good ones are very adept at reeling the fish in to spend money.(by the way anyone who claims they have to spend money in free to play games....you are but a reeled in fish...sad isnt it?)
They are pretty clever in making you think you have to pay cash...you never have to pay cash for free to play games...there is always another way.
You have to admit they did a good job on some fo the people posting on this thread.....they do as good a job as the gold spammers.....yep we all hate them or love them....but go figure the gold spammers make tons of cash still....
Yep i think its interesting indeed.
AGREE !!!
It seems some people. Most likely younger...or older but without a clue. No game can be completly free. It would be bankrupt day one and thats if they could somehow find someone willing to invest init to pay development costs.
What FTP does do ( as the site states for anyone who actually read it) is that it gives people the option of paying for what they choose, including nothing.
Personaly I don't care what the model is. If its a good game I'll play it. If its a bad game I won't.
Okay, so you object to games where the only way to get the 'best' stuff or the high end stuff is through the shop.
Fair enough.
But you do know that not all F2P games are like that?
You seem to be stuck on thinking about an older model.
And in a game where PvP is less important (and not required at all) then how does other people's equipment make any difference to your game?
The one that is being dishonnest about F2P games is you. The vast majority of free to play games do NOT require a payment whatsoever. Any enhancements to the game are completely optional.
If ANYONE for any reason is capable of spending REAL MONEY on something in one of the so-called f2p games then how is it FREE? It does not make a difference if someone can play without spending money. What makes it NOT be a f2p game is the fact that the games DO charge real money for something. That is NOT free to play. Not arguing if it is right or wrong other then the fact that using the term free to play is not ethical. Of course, when people hear that word "FREE" they are drawn to it like bears to a honeycomb. And just like the bears, if they want all the game has to offer, they eventually get stung.
Because it is completely optional. As long as it is optional, it is free to play. If a theme park offers free access to all rides but charges money for optional food and drinks, would they be dishonnest if they advertised: "free access to all rides"? Of course not.
Offering optional enhancements does not stop the game from being free to play. Your argument is utterly laughable and it's obvious you're grasping at straws to make free to play publishers seem dishonnest.
Anarchy Online's model is good, but it evolved into its three tier system. I'm not sure how a company with the intent to mimic that model would go about it starting from scratch. And as you know, once you pay either the $5 or the $15 for expansions, your free account can never go back to being free (at least I assume it's still that way). Sure, if you decide to stop paying and want to play AO for free again, you can start over with another free account, but not being able to revert to free still annoys people for some reason, and confuses them. I never did understand why, it made sense to me. Trying to revert someone back and forth from free to paid at their whim would probably be difficult or impossible, and would definately be annoying. Take off 20 levels for starter, all the perks, all those nanos you learned but can't use now, and of course, your weapons and armor. Ugh.
I suppose Blizzard could mimic AOs model now, it has enough expansions, but then there's already outrage over twinks who never bought Lich King and who run around overgeared making a mess of the BGs. If you could level to 60 free, level to 80 for $5 bucks a month, and pay $15 a month for Cata + whatever comes next, the anti-twink tears would never stop flowing. Not that twinking in WoW is worthy of the name anyway, but still, no one likes getting one-shot in a BG.
Is English even your first language? It's really hard to read your already semi-nonsensical posts. Also, I would reply to what you said, but Gyrus already did it better.
How other's equipment makes difference? - I answer: IF you are just casual player for few hrs per week and who never reach upper lvl end-game, then yea - it don't touch you. But if you take game more seriously, play more like I spent in EQ1 near 9000 hrs and reached one of server's top 3 guilds then things are different. Every class has their pre-requisites and needs tho guild just take ya application (like tanks having req-ed agro proc weapon, etc.)
And now if such conditions would be in f2p you could be sure for 120% that such kind equipment sits only in c-shops to put hardcore players in need to spend money. And as it seems not little as monthly p2p charge but times more.
Or how you explains wallet brothers stock announces that with f2p model they will get revenue 2-3 times more that earned turbine with p2p model? Do you wanna say they LIE to their stockholders too? That mr. wallets are big charity organization?
I still prefer the guildwars model.
I actually find this OP disgusting, especially posted as it is as the voice of MMORPG.Com, and especially after being assured that this site has no agenda in pushing the so called 'F2P' model on behalf of the corperations that are flooding the game sites with so much 'incentive' to push this as the 'only unstoppable future' of gaming.
The use of words like 'movement' and 'revolution' are obviously used to present this as a positive change headed up by players, when in reality it is social engineering driven by the accountants of the corps involved to change the payment model to one that they make MORE money from for LESS investment.
That MORE profit can only come from one place, and thats YOU, the user. Once you wake up to that surely some serious questions have to be asked about who is really pushing this agenda and to what end.
Profit is good, no one begrudges that for a good well built game, but PROFITEERING isnt, and thats what the opinion forming and supposedly 'neutral' gaming sites are being employed to brainwash the market towards accepting.
The whole F2Pmovement site is obviously nothing more then an industry sponsored shill front.
When will MMORPG.Com start to represent the sub based model in the same 'enthusiastic' way they do the 'F2P' one?
You may want IMVU or Farmville, but I want real games.
I understand what ya wanna say. That as in many (esp asian) f2p-s ya can't go to top w/out paying, in DDO ya can earn those TPs with long grind. I saw my son tried to play it "free" but we had subs for EQ2 that time I say I don't give penny for it, grind if ya wanna, And after month DDO was thrown away and he still is angry for that free lie. To earn TPs to open next thing one must run old instances many hundred times, repeate and repeate, awful grind.
And again ya don't answered to cheating, I hate that, I never play with cheaters. But what is it buying for win as not cheat?
Has anyone posting in this thread actually read and comprehended the OP?
Several people did (including myself) and two points came out of it;
I agree, though f2p means playing the game w/o having to pay a fee. buying the CS items is totally an Option, an for those who want to do that you Can, Yes there are items an stuff that would make the game funner, or better, an your character look cool, but hey thats life right. most things in CS are sold by other player im sure, it may cost alot in Game currency but hell by it being sold like that isnt that basiclly free too? i mean, jus save up some igc an bam you have CS item for free no? But that aside some games do need to make less of a grindfest.
The day WoW becomes F2P is the day I quit playing MMORPGS. Not because I like WoW but because I hate F2P.
If WoW does it then suddenly it becomes a sucessful business tactic and we will never see a quality game again.
Keep your FTP scam. I will never support it. I am sick of this effort to force it on us in the states.
Just say NO to "pay to win"
I'm very happy that you and others like you will 'aviod' my f2p games like 'plauge'.