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General : Fighting Talk: DAOC vs WAR
Posted Sep 09, 2010 by Suzie Ford
In his latest Fighting Talk column, MMORPG.com's Adam Tingle pits Dark Age of Camelot against Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning. As Adam says, this week's column is new versus old, elderly versus snot-nosed. Which one of Bioware-Mythic's games will come out on top? Read on to find out! Let's get ready to RUUUUUUUUMBLE!
Since the creation of this series of versus articles, my life has changed. Just last week I made an almighty mess in the Kitchen when Tomato Ketchup faced down Barbeque Sauce; a few days previously I offended my girlfriend by forcing her breasts Into a Thunder Dome “two boobs enter, one boob leaves” type of affair. So to keep within my current mental state, here is another article offering my meager, inflammatory, and often mistaken opinions. Enjoy it you delicious bastards.
Read more Fighting Words: DAOC vs WAR.
not gonna read the article, i will clearly say war is not even or never will be on daoc's level of gameplay, war was a huge step down from daoc , that is all
nice try but every1 that played daoc hated war because of the failsauce it was
DAoC is dated visually, but still stands as one of the greatest MMO's I've ever played.
Seems ironic that WAR came AFTER DAOC - if DAOC had been the successor with War's advanced graphic capabilities, we'd have a true winner on our hands today.
So gameplay has equal weighting/importance to newbie experience mkay.
Doesn't even remotely resemble a competition. I'm afraid the WAR camp is going to be non existant. DAOC 2 please.
Broken link. Love the commentary on a non-existent article :)
This is THE Internet - since when does NOT reading anything NOT give us the right to rip it to shreds?!
Not even a contest, DAoC wins hands down. Better graphics do not a good game make.
You don't have to even read the article because it is so blatantly obvious.
I still play Daoc after all these years, tried War and didn't like it.
haha beat me to it^^
You know what they say about opinions.....
I wont slam you for yours but 52-51? Sorry but War isnt even in Daoc league. IP issues aside mythic learned nothing about what made daoc great and avoiding none of what made it suck when they made War.
There are more problems with this than can be quickly listed.
Just to start, comparing an ancient relic of a game with a relatively new release is just one of the bigger ones. Then talk about which DAoC you mean; pre-ToA, post, non-ToA, frontiers etc.
Pretty silly comparison all around.
Normally I would side with you and agree with your ratings. However DAoC vs WAR is like putting a hogtied poodle covered in A1 in a cage with a hungry lion. DAoC aside from graphics is a far superior product. Score should have been closer to 70-30.
I agree with this, I like Warhammer but it realy should have come out more like 60-40 or a bit more. Personally for PvP I'd give War a 7/10, but for endgame I would give it a 1/10, it is quite simply put the worst endgame I've ever seen.
i dont even doubt it: Daoc
WAR end game 10/10?? LOL!
It was the main reason most people left the game, the end-game is terrible!
SIlly karat!
You can't hogtie poodles!
hahahahahahahahahahahah 10/10 Endgame? hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Sometimes a fight is just a waste of time and money because its too lopsided. Nice attempt at another fight, but its just too lopsided. Sad sad sad. Wish it was a close fight.
Last time I played DAOC (2.5 years ago maybe?), the game felt very very old and archaic. Movement and control was bad. That said, it still has the best PvP system of any game I've ever played. I'd love to see a new RvR based MMO using 3 realms. Everytime I see a new MMO coming out and it has 2 sides, I just yawn and don't even want to hear anymore about it.
this was to be a joke DAoC beats WAR so badly in every way besides grahpic's but I still think DAoC beats WAR in that as well.
<---------exactly
Um, the end game most people left doesn't exist any more, I wouldn't give the present end -game a 10/10 but it's a very different beast from what made people quit as soon as they hit 40 and looked up from the keyboard for a sec...
I am sorry to be rude but saying that WAR´S endgame is good is plain stupid.
MMORPG shame on you folks. This fight wasnt even fair.
I like everything about DAoC better than WAR, including the graphics.
Pvp and Endgame in WAR a 10/10? Seriously?
I agree with you, the graphics in DAOC are not THAT bad, I don't mind them at all, the controls are normal to me, I've played the game off and on since its release, maybe thats why. TOA kinda sucked, NF kinda sucked, but they were even in their meh-ness better than anything WAR had ever done. The pvp wasn't for noobs, and the noobs def were obvious. Zerging was a joke a good 8 man squad could end a zerg pretty easily. All the classes were fun, was fun to take out diff kinds of 8 mans and roll 16-24+ on a normal basis, the pve wasn't too bad but it was decent enough to keep most people interested. Building templates was fun, and the smartest had the best setup, no crappy 'sets of gear' , no gear as a pvp reward .. game will NEVER be duplicated.
The funny thing is.. Do you think DAOC vs. ANYGAME is fair? DAOC wins hands down against all!
^^ yup
Only stopped playing briefly while I try out FFXIV
WAR pvp endgame 10/10? I'm going to go out on a limb here an say you haven't actually played the game have you...
The idea of these articles is a good one in general, but if you are going to give such mind-numbingly ridiculous scores then you really should just give up on the whole idea now.
WAR endgame is much improved and a hell of alot better then alot of games end game out there. WOW s log in get a few Frost log out.
I like how all of a sudden mythis is adding at 3rd skaven faction to T4... lol... really? WoW had they realized this at relase and actually made 3 FACTIONS the game woudln't be where it is now... in my trash can.
WAR is an EPIC fail. DAOC is FAR superior.
I, as many have you played DAoC. I loved the game when it first started & still do. I've been back a few times after a 5 year run... I still miss it even after getting into other MMOS...
DAOC wins hands down!
Table-top war gaming is not a "board game."
Its funny, having seen these articles before I fast forwarded to the PvP section, when Warhammer won that, this article lost all credibility.
DAOC!!
Omfg what the hell is this, I still play daoc after 7 years or whatever. We played war for a month, then returned to daoc.
This is not even a competition! daoc clearly billion times better
Sort of funny. since they are both Mythic games.
i dont understand how these 2 products can even be compared to each other. its like comparing a classic 70's ferrari with a kids bicycle. DAoC FTW!!!
This article is hilarious. I tried War solely because it was a Mythic product. Dark Age of Camelot brought me to War..and I was bitterly disappointed in every aspect of the game. It isn't comparable to DAoC, not even remotely, and never has been. Graphics don't mean anything, especially since DAoC came out a decade ago, and at it's release it's graphics were top of the line.
I'd give anything to see another game like Camelot come out. Nothing has ever been able to truly compete for me. Stupid ToA ruined it..sadly.. :/
Words, do not want. Everyone knows Mythic tried to make 'DAOC II' with WAR and failed. They should take the WAR engine and port DAOC over lock, stock and barrel and callit DAOC II, that would win
I would have a hard time believing the writer actually played Warhammer as well to any degree. The endgame is horrid.
DaoC > Warhammer any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
I just started playing DAOC recently and I have to say that, despite the older graphics and a UI that is a little tricky to figure out at first, it is by far the best MMO I've played. I really can't believe I'm just finding out how amazing this game is. All the developers out there with new games coming out and failing horribly could really learn a lot from this gem. I've played a whole of MMOs only to grow bored of most of them rather quickly but it seems I've finally found the holy grail, so to speak.
DAoC all the way. Four years of it and I only managed two of the three realms; the amount of content and class is vast. Specifically DAoC wins by a knock out three to two realms.
Which is a shame as WAR has many fine features. Tomb of Knowledge, quests and public quests, mirror classes that don't seem the same and great realm balance. Not to mention fantastic GW lore everywhere. As well as great PvP from the word go, in fact best PvP has always been at T1 (Levels 1 -11). Scenario are great too, for all that they blamed as a major weakness of the game (how can a feature that was too popular be the cause of a game failure).
Hopefully, Bio-Myth will remake DAoC but build in many of the fine features of WAR; I doubt they will pump the necessary cash to add a few for races into WAR, or completely restruct it so all races are in conflict.
WAR couldn't win an ass-kicking contest versus a 1-legged man, all in all DAoC had a lot better design, structure & purpose to it,
WAR was a scenario-based game that Mythic spent a bloody fortune on developing only for it's test audience to hate it & tell them to make it a spiritual successor to DAoC, and they then switched tack & pushed out a pale shadow of it's predecessor, complete with now utterly unsuitable engine for that task, in the end it was a poorly coded, badly optimised linear boring & shallow game that didn't have enough game outside of what could have been an awesome PvP experience that was relegated to "okay" in order to retain a lot more players.
It's overblown hype-train sold a lot of boxes, but the karma bit it in the ass when the game tourists left in droves. Now it's on life-support being drip-fed short term fixes.
Thanks for the laughs, ( and I mean the intentional ones). " I'm not sure. What are you going to do to me in this tree?". LMAO.
I really am opposite to everyone here... I didnt like DAoC at all, and believe that WAR is actually one of the better games out there, sure it has some issues but I believe it is truly a solid game and I enjoyed playing it.
(to anyone who accuses me of joking... I assure you I am not joking or lying)
Is this some kind of joke? You are comparing a game that almost noone cares about after 2 years to a very old product.... The old product is still 50x better than WAR. War held my attention span for a WHOLE 2 weeks. I played DAOC for years. Please dont compare a half finished POS product with a game that was ground breaking and innovative.
DAOC wins hands down.WAR beta testers(I was one) knew it was dead meat before it was even launched.There weren't even keep fights in the initial WAR test version and that helps to explain why keeps are still messed up today. DAOC is THE best RVR game ever made...so far. What amazes me is why no one has copied the game with updated graphics and made a fortune.
I think that if I ever go back to playing any kind of MMO I'll just go back to DAoC. I've tried the rest, and if I start gaming again I'll just go back to the best.
I miss Midgard....
And I can assure you did not play DAoC when it launched in October of 2001. You tried it nearly 10 years later, what did you expect.
How could WAR max out PvP + Endgame and DaoC not? DaoCs endgame are way better than WARS.
In fact is the main reason I heard from people quitting WAR the endgame.
I wouldn't call WAR total crap but it is not near DaoC even today.
Why do you guys say Warhammer pvp is not better then Daoc pvp?
Let me guess? Is it because Daoc is faster then warhammer? I never played both games, but i did not want to play Warhammer simply because pvp movement management and fighting seemed to be way too slow.
Only 1 point separates DAOC from Warhammer huh?
If the author's intent was to make me laugh, job well done sir..
Job well done. /clap
I've always held out that based on past articles and how things were done here, this site has a secret love jones for Warhammer and it can do no wrong. Thank you for confirming it.
^ This
WAR cant even hold a candle to DAOC.To even compare the 2 in a "matchup" is a slap in the face to how great DAOC really is.
Like many others, after all those years I consider DAoC the best MMORPG ever made. For me it only got beaten by Age of Conan on PvE leveling side (not endgame).
As for endgame/PvP... not giving DAoC 10/10 seriously calls for blood. Man, have you ever actually played the game?
As for graphics, I conside DAoC one better. Simply because I don't like cartoon style in MMOs.
Me and my DAoC guild are hoping for Guild Wars II to be actually DAoC II, only time will tell though. And we don't expect DAoC could be beaten, we hope it could be reached. Warhammer definitely wasn't good enough to kiss DAoC shoes, at least for me.
70/30-40 would be score for me.
Daoc was a great game and yet its old and grey but still great!
Sadly the customer service is rather bad unable to help us (a few european players) in our billing trouble my old credit card is still on hold bcs of their billing-mess they had months ago so we were forced to left it again and this time we wont come back.
We thought GOA was guilty of bad service but it seems mythic is the root of the problems.
What is a great game without a good service?
We do not longer care for Daoc now, the thing is broken for us and if Daoc 2 comes around i only buy it if they have a first class service for foreigners too!
WAR end game 3/10 please....
Yep.
And End game is more like 2/10 it sucked ass.
Meridian 59 has/had the best pvp in a mmorpg.
Its obvious he gave WAR's endgame a 10/10 because he likes doing the scenerio missions, and being able to pug group instantly by clicking join a warband
game is a failure, ea ruined mythic
That isn't really the endgame, it is about taking down the enemy capital (which sadly isn't that fun).
But EA didn't ruin Mythic. MJ and Barnett started this mess long before. EA might be the cause that they cut out the last 4 cities, made a fast alternative endgame and released but the game were in trouble already when Mythic announced they started on it. Most of the bad things were in already then and you can't blame EA for all the goodies Mythic cut out.
A true Warhammer game must be made by Games workshop fans who played the tabletop and RPG games for many years. It needs mechanics based on Warhammer, not Meridian/EQ/WOW.
And When MJ decided to beat Wow at Wows own game the end was sealed. Not that EA helped much (except with money) but it was Mythics fault. Just because you made one good game doesn't mean you can make another.
Mythic should have made DaoC 2 instead and left Warhammer to someone who truly could have made the IP alive.
The closest game to DaoC in development seems to be GW2, the mist PvP seems to have some of DaoCs ideas in it.
OK this is a sham of an article. Only a couple of points make sense, the rest is some drivel made to placate the game companies since that is where MMORPG gets its bread buttered.
GAME WORLD - This is the only part that makes any sense. DAoC at launch was a 10/10. I remember exploring the scenery and being in total awe that a world could be created this well. Sure, over time with so many other games out there it is dated visually, but if we are talking about each game in their prime it is hands down a 10/10. Warhammer was and is a 3/10.
Player character- This is ridiculous. Warhammer gets a 9/10? Only crappy free to play games (not the good ones mind you) have poorer and more rigid character classes and more limited options when it comes to customization. The best Warhammer could get is 4/10, and then only that high because they focused on following the lore. DAoC - 9/10.
Newbie Experience- DAoC launched before games had really fleshed out the idea of having instanced starting zones. As it is I can agree with a 7/10. Warhammer had better overall quest lines and the introduction of a whole new type of quest system where areas within the zone restarted group quests on a timer. Original? Yes. Effective two months after launch? Not at all. Probably a tie at 7/10.
Solo Play - 5/10 for both. Neither game had any good solo options from midlevel on.
Group Play - If we look at each game in its prime then hands down DAoC rules. From guild play, PvP groups for Keep takes, PvP groups for hunting kills, or grouping for just about every decent zone/area in the game group play was THE way to play and their were a ton of options for finding your niche in the world. Warhammer groups and guild play was necessary for PvP, but there was little insentive to do much more than pug groups. You could have small warparties that were effective, but the steamroll of the zerg is almighty in that game. DAoC 8/10 Warhammer 5/10.
PvP and Endgame - PvP at endgame in Warhammer isn't even interesting. The PvP at midgame was much more engaging and fun. I found myself creating alts just to play midgame PvP because the end game sucked so much. The bulk of Warhammer's subscription dropoffs all occured once people had reached endgame for about a month and realized there was nothing more to do but run around in a circle in "PvP lake 1." DAoC was the exact opposite. It was a bit grindy until you hit endgame, then all of a sudden there was a whole new world that opened up. DAoC endgame 10/10, Warhammer endgame 4/10 (as in four weeks of endgame and you will unsubscribe).
Community - DAoC 10/10. It was THE community back in the day. Warhammer community started out at launch at 8/10. Then three months later it was a 6/10 due to the loss of all those people who found dissappointment. For those that stuck with it, well at least they are loyal, but the 6/10 has to stick.
DAoC = 57
Warhammer = 34
That's the real score people. If Mythic would just create DAoC 2, staying true to the original concept, updating the graphics, incorporating all the expectations that are now MMO staples.... then we would have us a game.
I haven't played neither nor the only thing that i can say it's that a good community makes a game, it doesn't mind graphics, world, nothing but in the end a good community - at least for me -.
Regarding "Feel free to give your own opinions on these games and give suggestions as to which games should battle next.", I'd ask you to do a Lineage 2 vs Aion.
I've been a long-time L2 player and didn't like Aion when it came out, just looking at graphics -it's what i look first when i see a game, and then the rest- it was rather the same as Lineage 2 (and the addition of shaders was nothing more than that), but i'd like if you posted a full versus (so that i can take into account other aspects, as i said).
Thanks.
I agree with this. Design decisions were already made and it was too late for WAR even before slashing 4 capital cities etc. It was exactly the case of trying to out-WoW WoW, when they should have stuck with what they were good at. But they saw a market opportunity...
Good review of WAR (as it's the only one of the games that I've played) except for the PvP part - at least in the first months of the game, the PvP consisted of either zerg-lagfests in open world or just one single skirmish that was played over and over again (although I found them quite nice, it got boring after a while)
Cool.
Never played DAoC but, I thought the WAR rating was fair. I only take issue with one part.
Although I'd like to say I thought in the catagory of "game world" I would have rated WAR at 7/10. Well at least the Dark Elf progression/story line. (Now the character models and world visuals is an easy 10/10 for me. But the size of each zone, (and like you said the funneling effect, rates at 2/10).
I have to say I never read quests, I hate them, I really do. The only quests Ive ever stopped to read in a MMO were Pirates of the Burning Sea quests and Warhammers (the DE's). And I have to say the PVE quests Ive done for the Dark Elves are awesome, and they are truly evil. One of the few MMO's that didnt try and play bad guys off as misunderstood but noble race. WARs Dark Elves are down right fucking diabolical.
And some of WAR's vistas...omg. Yes it looks like crap if you dont force 16xAF and 16xAA, but once you do... *gasp*
I was half tempted to upload some screenshots that I took while I was in beta (which wasnt at AF and AA x16) and they still are breathtaking.
Daoc >War
no need to say more
This, the author clearly takes a topic and writes up a bunch of garbage that is sure to incite and inflame since it goes against the standard knowledge of almost every person who's ever played both games.
We sometimes get moderated for writing posts like this, but now and then they encourage the writers here (looking at you Richard A.) to troll the board with their articles.
I've played WAR...and its no DAOC by a long shot. I'd call it more like a 70-30 spread in favor of DAOC because although WAR might excel in graphics, that is the score that carries the least weight in my book. Gameplay>graphics, always and forever.
Oh, and to those who say, why are you playing it now if the gameplay is so great? Because they ruined that too a long time ago with TOA, New Frontiers and Catacombs.
hmmm, pvp 10/10 for war? accessibility is not everything. and 3/10 for world is not fair. WAR has nice world to explore. worst fight from all 3 i have read but plz keep writing mate
DAOC was a classic game, even if the graphics don't compare to more modern games, but the game world itself, and the RvRvR factor, was far better than a most of the current PVP orientated games, and in the fantasy category.. pretty much all of them. WAR.. just wasnt good enough, if WAR had been released alongside DAOC when it first came out, WAR would still have failed, it doesnt matter how good or bad.. the graphics are, if you have awesome gameplay, which is something that WAR definitely doesnt have, and DAOC so obviously did... its a shame what happened to DAOC.. but, for a while there, it was amazing.. no matter how many points you score one over the other, or how many different 'boxes' each game ticked.. WAR just wasnt as much fun to play as DAOC, if it had been, it wouldnt have been such an epic fail of a game.
WAR has better graphics, a better newbie experience and combat.
Compare DAoC today not what it was before it got messed up and WAR is the better game.
Sadly...
Both are good games. But regardless of what anyone thinks here, I am fairly sure that Warhammer has alot more people playing then the 1334 people currently "defending the realms" of Camelot.
I personally cringed reading that WAR PVP was rated higher than DAoC and I can't say that I have met many people that had that opinion. Still the other ratings seemed acceptable to me and the outdated DAoC winning against WAR should make yet another point why there is a need for a DAoC 2.
If you logged into the game you would know that there is generally somewhere around 3,000 playing "defending the realms". I hate when people talk like they know something.
DAoC was ORIGINAL game that everyone loved. WAR was lame attempt st milking some cash out of the WoW crowd.
People wanted another DAoC, not "Just like WoW but worse (tm)"
Never played DAOC, but just started WAR and am loving the RVR.
DAoC is the best MMO I ever played. Played it from launch in 2001, went to US servers, got a guild going on Bedevere (The United to any old timers). Played it for years. ToA messed it up badly and it went downhill from there. Eat my life up though.
WAR was brilliant in it's setting and ideas, failed so miserably in the execution. Was a big disapointment in the end. All I wanted was DAoC #2 set in the Warhammer Universe. Instead I got a flawed attempt at a WoW clone, complete with joyful crappy cartoony grafix not the dark and menacing place Warhammer actually is. PvP and endgame was a total joke compared to DAoC.
How can you only seperate them by 1 point?
Well, a majority of the people on this site are always going to side with the older game, I mean, this is nostaligia.com (oops, I mean MMORPG.com).
That being said, I actually agree with them in this instance. WAR was/is a failure on many levels. It was supposed to be the next generation of DAoC and it failed miserably at that. So taking that point alone, there's no way it can rate higher than DAoC in any area other than graphics and the only reason it wins there is because it's the newer game.
Suggestion for next article, EQ vs. EQ2 with the stipulation that EQ has to be graded as it is today, not how it was in 1999.
I think you came up with a better topic, older MMO designs verses the newer ones thread. It is not nostalgia(note the spelling) which drives us, it was the better game play offered by the older games. It was far more open and less driven by a confining quest scheme. You actually had to do some exploring and you were not lead by the hand everywhere. Many of you new to the MMO genre don't grasp that fact sadly and think all of us are living in the past. It is a shame you have not experienced what this genre is capable of because the newer games are catering to the lowest common denominator. You are seeing many critical comments on the new SWTOR because of this fact, many of us fear Bioware will take hand holding to the extreme in their new game.
Uhh, you rated end game RvR higher for WAR?????????
WHAT?????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????????
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
In fact it is both nostalgia and the fact many older MMOs offered a good gameplay that doesn't feel so forced as many modern games. The trend the last 5 years have been to less freedom and easier gameplay, and the older fans of the genre doesn't like that. It will eventually turn however.
How could Bioware have more hand holding than Blizzard? You cannot sink Titanic, it has already been sunk to the max.
I think Bioware has developed new ways to sink the Titanic. They are quite inventive and intent on out Blizzarding Blizzard.
Relax, Blizzad are working on a new MMO...
I want to preface this by saying I am not a huge fan of DAOC as so many others here seem to be. I thought the game was good at one thing and passable on the rest. Nor do I think mythic to be game designing gods from the DAOC days. I remember a lot of the same issues plaguing daoc that warhammer is still suffering from and scratch my head as to why mythic repeated the same mistakes.
Having said that, I am beginning to wonder about the credibility of these articles. While there are admittedly a lot of problems with warhammer, the endgame and pvp have been some of the biggest problems in the game.
Many people suffered through bland and boring leveling/pve only to find an endgame in such poor shape that is effectively sealed the games fate. There was no promised land to look forward to after truding through the game to reach max level. To say that warhammer deserves a perferct 10/10 mark for endgame completely ignores the reality of the situation.
For example, mythic is AGAIN redesigning city sieges, because in their current implementation has AGAIN been heavily criticized. That alone should be enough indication that the endgame has problems and not close to being worthy of 10/10. The same is true for keep sieges, class balance, realm balance and many other factors. Warhammer endgame is a mess that struggles with balance on so many levels. Not just class balance, but realm balance and balance between pve/pvp/rvr. The direction of the game is very conflicted.
Wizard bomb groups alone ruined much of the pvp and mythics inability to properly deal with them for such a long time shows just how unstable the end game has been. This isn't even taking all the other problems into consideration like the amount of area effect damage and crowd control in the game.
I think the original poster of these articles is just fudging and tailoring these "battles" just so the numbers can be close in an effort rile up some discussion. 3 of these battles now and each within a couple of points of each other. I could respect if he had actually planted a flag down and picked a clear winner in at least one of these articles.
So if DAoC is so much better than WAR, why isn't it doing better?
Sure, these articles are intended to cause discussion, debate and what not. However, the scores are made purely on my judgement and not with any close call in mind. As stated in all of these articles these are just my opinions and I offer you to give yours. Personally I had a blast during WAR's PvP but this isn't the case for everybody. I would point out that PvP and Endgame are put together so a lot of the points for WAR in this catergory have come from the PvP aspects: its accesbility, fun factor, general feel etc.
Perhaps it is? Not like EA publishes any sub numbers for either game.
Besides, as we said, DAOC "was" a great game, it isn't any longer.
WAR never was a great game.
Saddly it seems Warhammer 40K will follow the same road. Instead of creating a multi-faction game like the excelent DAoC example, they decided to follow the old-and-tired 2 faction WoW clone.
About this Article, i played WH for about 1 month a long time ago and got bored. I betted on DAoC
DAOC is10 years old, games that old dont hold as many subs.
Eerie, I almost added it was like comparing a Ferarri to a Yugo...
Time Played:
Dark Age of Camelot - 9 years
Warhammer Online - 2 months
Need I say more?
You should probably be required to have played WAR sometime in 2010 to rip on it. WAR was obviously a disaster on release and it took over a year to actually get it to where it should have been then .. but it's not the same game it was during the alpha (err 2008 release) days.
I think the author is using TODAY's game as his basis of comparison .. and today's WAR is actually quite good.
Interesting article and the result I think could be considered a surprise. What I feel makes this situation stand out is WAR was probably tried by tons more people and not liked by many while DAOC has probably been tried by many fewer players than WAR but has a much better reputation among those who have tried it.
WAR doesn't seem like the type of game that would appeal to a hardcore DAOC player so they shot themselves in the foot there and then it certainly doesn't have a strong appeal with the WOW crowd either.
I can understand those who I've already seen disagree with the close result because in part they are right I'm certain the devs post launch didn't have that same warm fuzzy feeling after WAR that they had after DAOC.
I'm just guessing, but I think if both revealed their subscriver numbers, they wouldn't be all that far apart.
On the flip side, I doubt that DAOC could say they lost around 90% of their playerbase in the first year. Just for perspective.
DAoc is great WAr was nothign like daoc gw2 will be more like daoc than war. Mythic messed up bad trying to make wow 2.0. And poorly at that.
Not even going to read this one. DAoC wins hands down. WAR is just a mess of ideas from other MMO's.
If there was only two MMO's in the market I would play DAoC all over again.
From a PvP standpoint, They are both good (DAOC given the edge)
BUt the PVE is just a painful experience in WAR.
You can't be very familiar with DAoC or the MMO genre in general to make such a ridiculous statement.
Waaaaaay too generus, might as well just put your scales on a ladder of 3; Bad, decent, Good. Most of the time you only use 8, 9 and 10. You are also completly OFF the mark, 10/10 being perfect which is impossible, its certainly not the case for warhammer in ANY departement.
3/10 on en game in warhammer would have been right.
4/10 on PVP would also have been more reasonable because its was totally MEANINGLESS to PVP in this game since it was just about who spammed their crowd control first and AOEs.
Get real.
52-51 lol. DAOC was and still is alot more fun than WAR was or will ever be.
I enjoyed the article and like many here, I think the score should be higher in DAOC's favor.
For those of you that didnt read the article, you missed out. It was a great read.
Good article, but im sorry, DAOC should always get a 10/10 on group play. DAOC has hands down the best ever group play, no game has even come close.
As well as PVP, DAOC should always get a 10/10 in the pvp department. WAR is just a big zergfest and turned pvp into pve.
EDIT: DAOC should get a 1/10 on the solo part, but imo, the lower the score for that category the better.
Yep, that 1334 number has been posted for weeks, the website is broken, there are way more ppl logging on nightly.
Article was interesting up to the part where you talk about pvp, sorry but as much as I hate to say this, the pvp sucked almost as bad as the pve in WAR... So much that the devs had to remove 1/4 of all the features that were in game at launch.
WAR needed active players to work, but they failed to deliver on so many levels the servers went empty and then the game sucked w/o anough active players.
The concept is still good on papers and still have a chance, problem is Mythic clearly didn't have a captain, WAR was cruising on the failboat to empty servers.
QFT.
insanex
Why would you want to destroy a perfectly good boob!?!
lol of course DAOC was going to win. DAOC best game of all time and sadly lost to the new era of mmorpg gamers :(
oh and do a rohan vs heros of the three kingdoms.
b
oth awsome FTP games. well rohan not so much but just do some game vs gewros of the three kingdoms!
If MMORPG wants to be considered anything other than a shill for MMO companies they should consider trashing rubbish articles like this. Not print it as if it's an honest comparison. The only thing War should score high in is marketing because of the money they made on box sales. They really made that turd look good.
i just wish they'd put 20 quid into daoc and revamp the graphics and anims, then give if a fucking good marketing kick up the arse and it'd be ace again.
Daoc has the best game play and pvp experience i've played ever.
This article is a joke. How can WAR be scored a 10 on anything? A 10 = perfect. WAR is miles away from perfect. In fact hardly any game should be considered perfect. The only thing that made any sense in this article is the first bit about the game world.
To say that WAR is effectively equal to DAoC is just crazy. It isnt anywhere near as good as DAoC. The entire design of that game was so much better. I wish a new revamped one would get made.
You cheated, should have been: DaoC newbie experience 0/10.
52-51 ?!?!?!?!
Are you kidding?? I'm glad blogs are opinions and not facts, cause dude, you're way off. Warhammer pales in comparrison to quite possibly the greatest MMO ever.
DAOC might be old, but so is Lady Liberty, and she still gets the job done, as does DAOC.
Having gone back to daoc as a newbie in recent months, the newbie experience is much much better that it used to be, they kit you out up to 20, tutorial you lots of stuff and explain almost all aspects of the game pretty well.
DAoC,
Worst Opinion ever!
Soemthing reaks of money exchange.
Who have made up this points 10/10 or were have you got them from. Becuse the person or persons that have come up with this nr. must have hit there head badly in some of this areas.
Guild Wars vs Aion
And that is a good thing, MMO's are suppose to confuse you. The first time I ever played daoc I couldn't even figure out how to attack mobs, and it was awesome. I had no idea where anything was, so I just explored. It was by far the best MMO experience i'v ever had.
I got a laugh out of WARs 10/10 for endgame PVP content....
Really...
a 10?
Having played both games, my fondness memories lie with DAoC. Great community-great battles even if the server did crash!
There has not, nor does it seem there will ever be, PvP/RvR like DAOC. Hands down, one of the best MMO's ever made until Mythic ruined it. I was an on-going tester for six years and burnt the game to the ground. I often think of going back but did that several times in the past and just doesn't hold me like it used to.
There is zero competition against WAR and WAR was simply a failure. Many of us testers in WAR tried desperately for a better route and fixes but MJ wanted to hear none of it. Mythic SHOULD HAVE NOT DUMPED IMPERATOR FOR WAR. THAT WAS THE FINAL NAIL IN THE COFFIN FOR THIS STUDIO. IMPERATOR WOULD STILL BE GOING STRONG TODAY!
Looks more like a some lame troll's post than an article.
You should check out Guild Wars 2 man. They mention pvp like DAoC had.
One of the reasons I started to follow/watch GW2. Ive heard so many good things about DAoC,but When it was in its prime I was PC'less.And now im just not willing to pay a sub for the dated graphics and such.
For me DAOC is the clear winner. (WAR is still a good game though)
DAoC 2 Please.
Ok, after re-reading his 'review" I realized he was just doing a conversation piece and had to jazz it up some way. Not only is his review off in many ways, his basic facts that anyone who isn't lazy could find out are.
Case in point...
Doing a simple search on "Mythic Entertainment" reveals that DAOC was not Mythic's debut. They made about a few mmos long before that.
I can only guess he had never heard of Mythic before playing DAOC. To not know that is understandable if you just started playing DAOC when the game came out.
But about nine years later, dude? You should have Googled that at least to lend legitimacy to the piece.
Bad fight is bad. How can you give WAR better PVP than DAOC? DAOC = a million itmes better.
DAOC=opiod, WAR=expired, inactive Methadone. nuff said
"...here is another article offering my meager, inflammatory, and often mistaken opinions."
Calling people bastards and insinuating they are morons [by mistaking your opinions] is flame bait at best.
Just a few points follow. It is late and I do not want to write a manual or small book on your work.
When was that DAoC screen shot taken, 2003? Where are all of the enemy red identifiers? Where are all of the combat graphics? Where is the scenery?
Solo Play:
"...the game's difficulty has been reduced from a journey to the level cap to a hop, skip, and a jump.
That is not so for brand new people. Those new to the game and want to play solo will not reach level 50 in a week. And, you forgot about the 10 champion levels, you have to kill something to get there.
Also, while it is easy to power level someone, new players should learn how to play their characters both solo and in groups, and not by being power leveled.
Groups:
And, you said finding groups is difficult. It is if you do not know how. How easy is it to find groups in WoW if you are new?
PvP and End Game:
"Player versus Player within the game also bestows rewards for character development too so that it offers incentive to players wanting to carry on after the level cap."
How long did you play DAoC, a month?
RvR [PvP] IS the end game, and the end game never ends!
And, the reason that it does not take six months to reach level 50 is so people can play RvR.
Also, you did not mention Molvic [levels 35 to 39]. That battleground [RvR] has been popular for many years. Many people never leave Molvic because it is the closest game play to pre-ToA.
Community:
"...people were seemingly very happy to see a new boy and gave me items as if they were grooming me for sexual favors."
You seem to have a sick mind and are in need of both psychological and spiritual help. And, you also seem to throw sex terms and statements around with reckless abandon! Does your wife know that you make sick jokes about her "boobs"?
The best thing I can say about this "article" is that you may be re-introducing DAoC to new readers.
article was obviously written to help bring in some Mythic advertising dollars. No sane person that has played both games can think WAR is better @ anything except graphics & perhaps the early game (below level 10). Or perhaps, Mythic has spent so much advertising $$ on this site, MMORPG is afraid to badmouth them.
Played WAR for about 4 months & tried it as tank & healer & DD & it always sucked unless you had one of the overpowered classes.
@ Adam Tingle
Trololo!
Even with the number currently broken, when the Ywain cluster launched the highest that I ever saw that number was slightly over 3000. Sorry but thats not many people. What would that be maybe 30k subscribers if that? UO as of fairly recently still had around 100k subscribers from I have seen. And you can see proof of that just by looking at the effort that is put into the development of UO compared to DAoC.
Don't get me wrong myleigh7 I was not trying to imply that Warhammer is necessarily better, but I can almost guarantee that it is doing better numbers wise. Sadly numbers are the only thing that studios and publishers look at. We can only hope maybe someday down the road Mythic will change their mind about not doing sequels and develop a DAoC 2. I know that I would play that in a heartbeat.
WAR's endgame PvP was total fail. To give it a 10/10 shows the iteligence of some of the colunist here at this site. Please this game is on its deathbed for a reason.
WAR's engame was FAILHammer! I may just be old-fashioned I guess. Others have said it... DAOC 2 please!
If Mythic were paying me to say sweet things about any of their games I would be giving both of their games better scores. These are my opinions entirely, if Mythic want to pay me, well we can see about a rewrite. People should play WAR in its current state rather than going on there initial experiences at launch. The game has truly grown and progressed.
people have been playing.. if not for long, WAR in its current state, thats why its doing so badly, the game hasnt grown at all, and the degree of progression, i really have to wonder at. less really isnt more you know... and thats pretty much what has happened to the game from its initial version.. i really dont understand the end game rating of the game either.. though its not the only bit that i dont agree with, its just, the end game rating of 10/10 is totally unjustified... maybe they got the 0 and the 1 the wrong way round?
What competition? That's not a competition.
D
A
o
C
!!!!!
That would be like asking which of these two items is better? A Ferrari Enzo, or a VW Beetle?
Are you having any difficulty deciding?
You cannot judge a game by the number of subscribers. I mean, look at WoW's numbers, and it has totally worthless graphics, horrific crowding, etc etc. Yet more and more people play it. It's advertising, pure and simple. I'd bet a very large percentage think it's the best they could get. They just don't know any better. I've seen WoW commercials, and cultural references.. Where have I ever seen a single reference to DAoC in mainstream media..Oh yeah..Never.
Ps..There was no monetary or non-monetary compensation given to me by anyone or anything in return for my opinion.
Few MMOs are in the category of truly epic, immersive gameplay. DAoC, EQ, and AC are all a part of that IMO. DAoC was in many ways ahead of its time, yet much was drawn from the old-school MMOs as well. If DAoC was launching today with the WAR engine (minus ToA) it would be a huge hit. I'm still hoping for DAoC 2 someday though...
insanex
DAOC IMO is the better game
Three realms: I wil always remember the 3 way battles of three realms going at it. or having a stand off, and then having that third realm join the party. so fun. Warhammer how ever also has great battle grounds and the RVR is incredible as well. but Three realms adds that extra unkown to the fight that is so fun. I suppose WH has better battle grounds and RVR over all, but for me its funner with three sides fighting for control.
Classes - DAOC fields so many interesting classes and races. Warhammer does OK in this area but I found the few classesvery limiting. Also hated the female bright wizard models... Allow more face/body customization and it would be better.
The PVE world - DAOC all the way, warhammer is disjoint and the PVE experience is terrible. I like the idea of encounters but the PVE just doesn't work for me. the zones are cool, but the problem is the world..doesn't feel like a world.
For me I'm waiting for DAOC 2.
See, I've always been surprised that WAR doesn't even manage to look better than DAoC, to me, let alone better than Climax's canned Warhammer Online from 2004. It's quite puzzling.
Well, I have to admit I am a bit surprised by some of the Warhammer scores (PvP a 10/10- pah-lease...).
DAoC 2 would be sweet, true. Alternatively, Mythic should consider reviving DAoC by taking up development again. A new expansion, the promised DAoC Origins server, an engine update... That game still has the potential to be a contender in todays market. Maybe not WOWesque subsriber numbers, but certainly more than it has today. And/or lower the subscription fees to make it easier for people to maintain a subscription alongside other games.
Anyway, there is lot's of things that Mythic could do to treat the game and it's community better, but alas...
oh and since some people mentioned updating DAoC with the WAR engine - there actually is a little teaser of how that would look like right here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igrMFiBRFCA&feature=related
WAR endgame has changed quite a bit since launch and it's pretty good now and is still continuing to evolve, while not perfect it's best you can get in the market as for pvp and rvr go.
I can't really comment on DAoC as I never got to play it. I will say the reason I enjoy WAR so much is because the pvp is so group centric. You won't have one person solo in good gear kill 5 people like it's nothing. The whole point of the game is to pvp, to get gear, to pvp more and better with.
I disagree on endgame being 10/10 for War. Granted, end game is all about pvp, but their is their version of PvE. And it's pretty sad.
I was hoping to see Bioware try to breath a little life into the game before they pushed TOR out the door. Guess they won't.
WAR failed when instead of battlegrounds they had scenarios, while scenarios could still have a place its not like a battleground. Thats just one thing DAoC did that no other game does, and battle grounds was alot of fun.
You don't know what you missed. To see a thousand people in New Frontiers beating eachother's brains out, all day long. Join at 7:00 A.M. and leave at 7:00 P.M. with the same battle raging.
I cannot see any game, in the past, current, or future with that kind of combat.
ok i just have to post this now...
DAoC's graphics are bad? check some newer screens.... it looks very crisp and fitting now...
WAR btw is built on an engine VERY similar to the one used in Catacombs.
WAR - PvP 10/10 <---- haha good one ^^ maybe in T1... and how does the game seem fair with all the blatant balance issues they've been having since launch?
No way in hell is War even close in the same catagory as DAOC. Daoc is one hell of a game and war is so blah. Maybe they should have done DAOC 2 and made a winner. I think it has alot to do with selling out to EA for some cash..
Played DaoC for over 7 years but i only lasted around 3 months playing War and that includes stopping twice , waiting for a month or so and retrying it. War just falls short in so many areas, The basic design is just crap and should have been tossed out and replaced with some that was fun.
I love this series of articles, but for the love of the gods, use an editor, or at least get your girlfriend to read your article. I saw three glaring typos just skimming through it one time. Sloppy work diminishes the fun read.
War is the daddy of PVP? I am on an MMORPG site right? Anyone that has ever played both of these knows DAoC pvp is so much better than WAR.
There has never been a better mmorpg for me than daoc and WAR isnt even close.
PvP/End Game
WAR = 10/10
DAOC = 8/10
LOL.. Best part
Idk how these games came so close.. WAR is terrible.. the fact these games are close makes me question the posters actual gaming experience and carebear level.. Come on MMORPG, hire people that actually play games to write for you..
I quit WAR for a long time and came back. The end game is awesome with the changes they made recently. The AAO bonus keeps people in the zones fighting for control. The dynamics of the game have changed alot with the recent changes and it's really fun to play. I just hope with the new expansion that they keep the good stuff rollin.
My only complaint is the RvR lakes are to small.
The thing i do nbot understand is this. Why don't mythic just give people want and make daoc 2? People would love to play it and pay for it.
IF YOU BUILD IT THEY WILL PLAY!
Agree, however if you played Tabula Rasa you would see War does not have the worst endgame.