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General : Community Spotlight: Haters Gonna Hate?
Posted Jul 29, 2010 by Michael Bitton
This week’s Community Spotlight focuses on the thread “So why do many MMORPG gamers hate so many new MMORPG games?” by Qazz. Qazz appears frustrated by MMO gamers who seem to hate every new MMO that is announced or is coming out. Are we all just grumpy grognards or are the new crop of games, well, crap?
Qazz asserts that the highly vocal detractors possibly just don’t like MMOs at all, offering a humorous scenario to illustrate his position:
“I've seen many posts by people who say they aren't playing any MMORPG's right now because "there aren't any good games". Should people who hate on MMO's all day, but can't even say they are even playing one, just admit they don't like MMO's?
Here is an interview from the HappyVille Pie Competition to illustrate my thoughts.
___________
Mayor Morpg: "Welcome to the HappyVille Pie Competition. Mr. Fussy McCritik will be judging today. Well Fussy...talk to me about your thoughts on the competition?"
Fussy McCritik: "All of the pies suck. They make me want to puke. They're all made so people will buy them. I can't stand any pie that is made today."
Mayor Morpg: "Well, to me it sounds like you don't like pie...do you think you really should be judging a pie contest?"
Fussy McCritik: "STFU, I know all about pies. I'm just waiting for somebody to make a good one."
Mayor Morpg: "Fussy, if there isn't a single pie that you like, then you just don't like pies. Just admit it."
Fussy McCritik: "You don't get it do you? Go back to your World of Walnut pie. I'm done with this interview."”
Read this week's Community Spotlight here.
First off, I really shudder when any writer who uses the word "hater". Just using the word tends to make me think I am reading something written by a young child. The word critic is far more appropriate here. If you are going to write articles, correct word choice will be a big deciding factor whether anyone takes your article seriously.
This is a community spotlight, not a blog review or article. This was written by someone in the community, a normal forums poster. Like you making a popular topic, hence it receives a spotlight.
Pretty hilarious. Yes, haters gonna hate. It's the internet -- it's always been this way and it always will be.
Pretty much. The title of the spotlight was inspired by one of the spotlighted posters in the blog TrunksZ who summed up the whole situation with the "haters gonna hate" meme. Seemed fitting. :)
There are/were good pies out there.
WoW(Vanilla)
SWG(pre NGE)
VG(good design soooo many bugs)
EQ (original)
There are/were plenty of good pies (game design) out there. Like Fussy McCritik said,
he is just waiting for a good one not full of bugs. Or one that doesn't change the game entirely (WoW and SWG), abandoning it's playerbase.
You people come in here very very late to the game and yell at us. We were here first, and we don't want to kick you out. You can enjoy WoW and whatever other games you like, we just want our games back. WoW was our game before it abandoned us to get you all. WoW was our pie and you stole it.
So talk crap all you want.
EDIT: Also want to point out that you are hating on us in your post. A bit hypocritical don't you think?
I per-fer peach pie..But hey i tried the others pie, but i cant understand why they dont make the peach pie one..The other pie's i tried all taste the same, there no flavor.Are the cooks afraid to dabble in cooking or do they continue to copy there recipe from each other? Dam sound like im playing a copy of the MMO Pie's with no Flavor game..Yep, just like the games all the same with no flavor..Stick to peach pie..
I love how all pies were peach, then one pie decided not enough people liked it's pies, so it changed it's recipe. Thena bunch of people who didn't like pies at all started to eat their pies. When other pie makes saw how many people were eating that other persons pie they all changed their recipes too.
Then the people who originally didn't like pies, come on here and post about how we don't like pies, even though we liked pies a long time before they did.
WTB peach pie please.
@gauge2k3
No hate intended. (I actually didn't use the 'haters gonna hate' phrase in my forum post, but it seems to fit considering it was in the first reply.) I've found myself in Fussy McCritik's shoes on many occasions, truth be told. I hope that our community will continue to voice strong opinions about likes/dislikes of individual games. I also hope that we can all appreciate how far MMO's have come and realize how we haven't even touched the tip of the iceberg of what is possible.
Hey, I love and hate certain kinds of pie...but I'm 100% positive that the greatest has yet to be baked!
Qazz
To be honest, that is something that has bothered me about the various discussions that have popped up from time to time on the same issue. Generally though, I do not think of the person using the term as young - but rather, I think of them as fanbois.
Anybody that does not bend over, grab their ankles, and thank the gods above for the particular game is deemed a hater. They are purely negative and should be ignored. Etc, etc, etc.
The simple truth of the matter is that with so many options (not just with MMORPGs), we are more critical. We do not simply have to accept whatever slop is thrown our way. With many games being hyped as one thing, with many broken promises along the way, and with many random changes of game direction - people will question and criticize what is going on.
While there may be those trolls out there that have no life outside of the miniscule amount of muted pleasure they derive from making the various fanbois of different games run for mother's apron strings with tears in their eyes, the majority of people simply have developed a critical eye over the years. It is not necessarily a case that they are jaded, though you will have those members of the crowd as well.
Criticism does not mean hate. Criticism is not always entirely negative.
Well, perhaps to the fanbois...
anyone else find it fitting that the first response to a "hater" thread is a hater?
No, but I found it amusing that what you did goes in line with what I said. I would say that Ozmodan was more of a critic of word choice than a hater of word choice. Then somebody who is apparently a fanboy of the meme, calls Ozmodan a hater for criticizing it... tada in all its banal magic.
The problem Virus was that a critic does not always dislike something. Critic is not short for criticize but critique.
The opposite of a fanboy is a hater. Same concept, different point of view.
Now OZZ starts out saying the term hater makes him feel like the writer is imature. Of course this was not his exact words, they were what was implied.
You start off by saying you are labled a hater if you do not drink the coolaid. My friend it is not quite that simple. In both examples the two of you are taking things to the extreme. You are assuming this whole article is about you.
You know what, it just may be.
I'm not a fanboy of anything. atleast nothing to do with MMOs or this thread more specifically.
to me it was quite obvious that the first response was a typical one on these forums....nothing constructive....just insulting someone in anyway possible..
and he/she was insulting....telling him he has to write a certain way...a way that doesnt make the first responder "shudder" or feel like he was "reading a 12 year old"
if Oz bothered to read the OP he would have realized that this was based on someone elses post. thus "hater" was not the creation of the OP in this thread.
but he/she didnt. they just simply "hated" on his word style/choice of terminology.
AND PLAYAS GONNA PLAY!
srry, had to
I like pie alot, the problem is... if you have the same pie over and over and over again and never pick on a different pie it gets boring quickly.... I am clearly not a pie hater but taking a break from different types of pie until a new flavour is out there. If it makes you a "hater" if you are not eating any pie at the moment but wait for one to come out, I can not judge and is clearly debateable. Everyone got a different taste and therefore not every pie will be liked by all the eaters out there
I personally think Robokapp destroyed that thread with *his* allegory to pie-based warfare. I even bumped him so others would catch it. Totally spot-on.
Just take those old records off the shelf
I'll sit and listen to 'em by myself
Today's music ain 't got the same soul
I like that old time rock 'n' roll
Don't try to take me to a disco
You'll never even get me out on the floor
In ten minutes I'll be late for the door
I like that old time rock'n' roll
Still like that old time rock'n' roll
That kind of music just soothes the soul
I reminisce about the days of old
With that old time rock 'n' roll
Won't go to hear them play a tango
I'd rather hear some blues or funky old soul
There's only sure way to get me to go
Start playing old time rock 'n' roll
Call me a relic, call me what you will
Say I'm old-fashioned, say I'm over the hill
Today' music ain't got the same soul
I like that old time rock 'n' roll
Still like that old time rock'n' roll
That kind of music just soothes the soul
I reminisce about the days of old
With that old time rock 'n' roll
The pie analogy -- brilliant!
I do think that the hate stuff (which is sometimes funny) has to do with memories of your first MMO. A lot of what made your first MMO so wonderful was: it was the first, and often -- you were so young. So it will be hard for any other game to measure up. I find the WoW hating especially interesting -- a lot of it has to do with WoW being so popular and also appealing to people who other people don't think of as hardcore gamers, so not deserving of any opinion -- and if these people who aren't "hardcore gamers" like WoW -- it doesn't count.
I've played MMOs that don't appeal to me, but I don't hate them. While I'd like a little more variety (as in non combat focused, more to do than combat, or a game with no combat) -- I think the genre is just fine.
I just say I have a particilar mind set into what game I want to play. It it does not fit my profile I am not going to like it. Its not that I hate it, its just it dont work for me and I post and say why.
Well clearly the 'mmorpg' genre as radically shifted focus over time (from cooperative-mulitplayer, rpg, subscription-only to what you have today) so its unfair to say that people who don't like mmorpg's today, simply don't like mmorpgs.
Love this post.
I rarely make any posts on this site, but had to log in to say this is one of the most silly spotlights I've read.
I agree with the first comment made - using the word "hater" will ensure that no one takes your article seriously.
Furthermore, this article trivializes the fact that MMOs have been terrible for a long, long time. Not since early Ultima Online or early Star Wars Galaxies have we seen anything truly successful as a Massively Multiplayer game that isn't a clone of Everquest.
There are a lot of people who dislike the MMOs of today because they are pretty much Everquest all over again. Until this changes, the "haters" are going to continue disliking MMOs. It's not because they're retarded or unreasonable - it's because the games need to develop beyond Everquest clones.
At this point I would settle for a true EQ or pre CU/NGE SWG. Guys want us to shut up, someone make that game. Heck I would settle for vanilla WoW.
No idea what you're on about. The pie tastes the same today as it did when it came out of the oven. It's all the angry, ignorant chimps demanding a slice that makes it inedible. It would be a great pie aside from the fact that you need to share it with a community of greedy idiots.
Can you feel it ,see it, hear it today?
If you can't, then it doesn't matter anyway
You will never understand it 'cause it happens too fast
And it feels so good, it's like walking on glass
It's so cool, it's so hip, it's alright
It's so groovy, it's outta sight
You can touch it, smell it, taste it so sweet
But it makes no difference 'cause it knocks you off your feet
So you lay down on it and you do it some more
You've got to share it, so you dare it
Then you bare it and you tear it
It's in your face but you can't grab it
Oh I read the article, but Virusdancer summed it up much better than I did. Kudos to him. I generally criticize any post using the word 'hater' because it more often than not reflects the inability to tolerate other points of view or as Virusdancer put it the so called fanbois reply.
My mistake was using the word "young" in my comment when I really meant those that cannot stand someone criticizing something they like. For that I apologize for my poor choice of words.
All games have flaws, some of us manage to tolerate them better than others, but I think few of us actually hate these games.
Since this topic is chock full of ghetto and ebonics I just toss out a "word" in agreement to the quote above.
I dont think anyone is exactly a hater of games...or in the analogy of pie.....they dont hate the pie but are haters of the creators of the pie who seam to mess up all the time....i.e. they dont like the people who show up at the pie competition with an empty container claiming its a pie....or showing up with a bucket of whipcream claiming its a pie but just not all the way yet...or they hate how people make a pie that tatses terrible...becasue they left out sugar or put salt into the mix instead of sugar....and then claim those problems are great features that make the pie the best....or they hate the people who ignore them after they point out their pie fell onthe ground and got eaten partially and need to fix that problem.
I think i wrote a good enough anology that the author of the pie story will understand.
Fact is, some people ate wayy too much pie when they were first introduced to it.. Wayy too much.. However people started to get bored of the same ol pie, and pies at the time were not very easy to make for chefs so there weren't many pies to choose from. So along comes a new chef who cooked up a new type of pie. This pie was based off of the old recipe but added a better and easier to eat crust. Now even young children and people who dont normally eat pie could enjoy it!
The chef was getting rich off of this new pie so all the other chefs started to use the same recipe, feeding everyone the same pie but with different names for them.. Then simply put everyone ate too much pie..Everyone.. Kids.. Adults.. Mothers.. Fathers.. Sons and daughters..Everyone.. The people got so hungry for pie that the chefs started to offer them to people for free but the catch was that they actually had to bake the pie themselves or had to pay the chef to bake it for them..
This free pie was widely accepted. So widely accepted that free pies were popping up everywhere, giving everyone and I mean everyone a chance to taste one.. Yet again, people were eating too much pie. However eventually we got tired of the same ol pie recipe and demanded a new recipe. This started to show the true "novice" colors of the copycat chefs and as they struggled to make a new recipe it was too late, they were going out of buisness fast.
In the present day, the pie business is a rollercoaster. On one hand, you have your pie lovers who would eat any type of pie thrown at them, on the other hand you have your picky eaters who only touch pies that fit their demands and lastly you have your pie hopefuls who would try any pie but hesitant to buy any pie at all.
So much pie, so many pie eaters. Too much pie eaten. everyone is growing sick of pie, even the chefs. Theres only so many ways to cook a pie and we are now realizing that. Our demands for the "perfect" pie has left the chefs scratching their heads and shrugging as the same ol pie formula is keeping the pie lovers happy. As long as the picky eaters and pie hopefuls are generating less revenue than the pie lovers the formula will not change..
Sorry for all the text, lol, bottom line is take a break from pie and eventually you will work up an appetite for even the most basic recipe.. The people who hate pie the most are the ones who just simply had too much of it.. My 2 dollars and 6 cents worth..
Damn straight. MMOs today have no "soul".
I think that the chef are not making pies since '05, they've been making cakes the last couple of years and everybody knows that the cake is a lie.
/thread
+1
Im myself got called "hater" often in DFO and why? Because i point out flaws and dont praise a game like most "die hard fans" do it? Is that enough to label me a "hater"? If you would do it in real life you would get called narrow minded pretty fast, but on the internet its ok. I got used to it and accept the role that people want to call me hater and i dont mind it any more.
One thing people should remember if there were no so called "haters" should a game improve if every is already happy with the game? Why should a game improve if every one is prasing its fine as it is? Why should there be a new expansions if everything is already fine as it is?
Only game and company i hate with passion is Age of Fail and FailCom still i dont lurk in their subforum or official forum and bash it. Hell i didnt even play it for almost 1 1/2 year and i got about 3-4 comments about FailCom. And why i hate it? Because i was more blue eyed back these days and trusted the hype they created about how AoC would be epic game and now look at it, its not even a shadow of what it could have been if the hype would have been true.
This is a forum, specifically one where people are not tied to a specific game (otherwise the would be posting in that game website's forum). People do not post appreciation on these forums, they post complaints and are in search of something to play. Judging the hate on these forums is like asking how people feel about their cars at an auto repair shop.
I think you guys are missing the point. You all sit here and say I'm not hatin just postin and criticizin.
You equate being called a hater with not bending over and taking ( cencored ).
You can sit here in a self absorbed world claiming all kinds of superiority and yet you call those who do not agree fanboys.
The truely greatest thing about this post is the soptlight that it seems to be bringing to those who are protesting against this thread the most.
The post was funny. It kinda brought some humor to the whole aregument of hater vs fanboys.
But, by all means. Bring your hate to this thread so we who read it can laugh at you!!! ROFLMAO!
MMORPG developers have nobody but themselves to blame for this attitude. If they would stop with the over-the-top marketing and hype machine that reaches a fever pitch months or years before the game is even released and then delivered a solid game they would have a lot more happy customers.
Go back and look at the pre-release marketing done for Vanguard, AoC, Warhammer, etc. Basically every big title in recent history has overdone the hype and then delivered really poor games. I used to use Bioware as an example of what not to do but even they are getting in on the hype machine in big way recently.
Focus on making good games and use the positive reviews and word of mouth do the marketing for you. Stop promising the moon and then delivering crap.
Also, stop with the WoW killer garbage. WoW is too big and too successful for anybody but Blizzard to compete with. There is not a game in development now that will have a huge impact on WoW. Developers need to embrace this and focus on making their games unique and fun in their own way and stop thinking they are going to be getting a huge piece of the WoW pie.
Well said.
One of the problems I see with mmos is there there are just so many of them and everyone does the same routine. Perhaps if there were less mmos people would actually enjoy what we have available to us. MMOS should be the pinnacle of the intelluctaul property and they should be developed with care. That doesn't happen though because companies out there use the same old basic format and slap a price tag on it. I mean seriously, look at all the mmos listed ont his site and i bet you'll get maybe 10 mmos that were actually high quality. Then you have the other 100 mmos listed on the site that are crappy and are only there to suck the money from people's wallets. The mmo genre is nothing more than a stepping stool for developers bank accounts. There is no care,passion and pride anymore when developers make mmos at this current time. There are exceptions such as Blizzard, ArenaNet and Bioware but the rest I could probably care less about.
Now lets be honest. Even if they made exactly that game you want, there would still be haters. No one would "shut up," as you say.
It is a fact there are haters out there.. No matter how you color it.. Get over it. There is nothing wrong with the use of haters when it is the truth.
Nobody stoled your damn game.. There is one thing that is constant in this world and it is guaranteed it will happen... Change... Things change.. things have to change.. if you don't like change, then crawl under a rock and stay there.. Eventually your rock will erode. You can't stop it, you can't control it.. So cry a river build a bridge and get over it.