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Newsroom
Entropia : From Gamer Chick to ROCKtropia
Posted May 17, 2010 by Jon Wood
Carolyn Koh brings us more new information from the worlds of Entropia Universe, covering the story behind the latest musical crossover into the game: ROCKtropia.
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Six years ago, Jon "Neverdie" Jacobs got his girlfriend to play Project Entropia with him and got her totally hooked. He wrote a song for her entitled "Gamer Chick" and asked MindArk if they would put it on the juke boxes found in game for other players to listen to.
"What I was hoping for was to make some money out of it," said Jon. "They didn't have the structure to do that at the time, but put it in the game anyway. That sort of made my avatar Neverdie rather famous as the song went viral and everyone was playing it in game and I eventually made a music video out of it and put it on Youtube."
The future begins tomorrow.
Why does MMORPG continue to cover this horrible game? Of all the games out there this is probably one of the worst and you will find that opinion to be rather common among your readers.
Just one big scam. Can't believe you continue to promote it.
What is so horrible about it? Seems like a lot of people enjoy playing it, so I'd be interested in knowing exactly what it is about this game that grinds your gears.
I find the concept somewhat intreguing actually.
Game has a decent concept. Though my view of it is tainted from my dabble into in 2003-2004, where I saw little to no way in acutally get ahead without sinking a good amount of money into the game. I actually dropped 15 dollars and it seemed to have gotten me very little. Then later on that week my character got stuck. The process for getting my self unstuck was to log out, email support and then wait for their reply. It took three hours for my character to get free. Between all this and the lack of anything interesting in the way of content made me decide to quit.
Looks like the Entropia has gotten better over the long haul. But that earlier experince and my dislike of F2P games tells me not to try this again.
its virtually the ultimate RMT game, only its the company itself thats doing the RMT... tbh, it does seem dodgy, i'd be very interested to know if a lot of people really are playing it though, and on what basis, not that i'd ever consider playing it again, i tried it once and that was enough to cure me of any curiosity about the game itself, personally i am with Ozmodan on this one, i think its highly likely that the whole thing is some kind of scam, the claims made about buying and selling to make money in the game seem too unrealistic to treat seriously, and there seems little if any evidence to back up their assertions.
Well since it only uses the engine it mustn't be as bad as Entropia i assume.
Regarding Entropia being a terrible game there are people who enjoy it and i have also played it in the past, but since mindark is too greedy and managed to totally screw up the ingame economy it is much too expensive for the regular player.
For example if you want to get anywhere as a hunter/pker in Entropia you should be able to at least invest somewhere between 20000-30000 USD for equipment somewhere down the line or you'll be stuck at mid-level forever. And you should be ready to pay an additional 100-200 USD on top of that every month to keep going unless you are very lucky of course,
So basically just never being able to get to the "engame content" or play with the big guns makes it very unattractive for the average joe. You can get uber in any game if you invest enough time, in Entropia you also need to have tons of money.
OK now, that's some serious money, which I'd have to say disqualifies me from playing if true.
But if there are people wealthy enough to pay this sort of fee without protest, then perhaps this is just the game for them, doesn't make it necessarily a bad game, just designed for a wealthier class of gamer.
Oh shut up would you? Posting a news article about it once every few weeks is hardly what I call "promoting it."
I further suggest you look up the definition for the word scam, because the last time I checked players played the game out of their own free will, and it's certainly no secret that you have to pay for items with real-world cash.
I know a good few people who enjoy it, and considering there's no lack of players in-game, and that the developers make a nice profit every year, I think it's doing just fine and it's well worth a mention. Under-rated, in fact.
It was my first MMO and I immensely enjoyed my time in it. I'd still probably be playing if I had a credit card. You may not like it, but hell do you learn how to play efficiently and intelligently when your actual money is at stake.
I think the reason, probably the main reason, why it seems like a scam, is because of the amounts of money involved, real money that is, no matter how much its glossed over, the amounts involved are dispreportionate to the gameplay involved, particularly when compared to other games on the market, even AAA subscription based games. The figures involved just can't be ignored though, which is what makes it look so dodgy.
Let me guess your credit card got cancelled for non payment due to the fact you maxed it out in Entropia Universe? This game is not a game it is a casino.
Let me give you an example of how far $10.00 will go. You can buy a basic gun and ammo. lets say the ammo required to kill 1 mob is about .25c. Now you need to kill about 20 mobs to get 1 loot drop. So thats $5 to get 1 loot drop. The loot valuse is around hrmm $0.10c. So your spending $10.00 to get $0.20c back and have perhaps a chance of something realy nice dropping being worth maybe a few dollars or exceptionally rare stuff with $100's and $100's only drop in specific hunting ground of course which cost a ton of real world money to get into.
Personally - get a groupd of friends and go to a real coasino in the real world and play roulette, at least your odds are better there of getting a return.
Shame on you MMORPG for covering a casino, but hey whatever pays the bills right?
Perhaps the players of this game enjoy the casino like aspect of it, risk vs reward right? Just because its designed around this mechanic doesn't mean the game is bad, or the developers are evil, just means it has a different design than traditional MMO's.
If the people who play it are happy with the game, who are you to say they're wrong or the game is bad?
its really about the payment option, and while the people who do play the game might be happy (they might prefer things to be a bit cheaper too after all) that doesnt take into account how many players actually stick with the game. the success of any MMO is based on its retention rate, how many players have tried and left compared to those who have tried and stayed? how many are actually paying to play, this isnt after all about how the game looks, but about how its funded, or perhaps more accurately, whether the amounts involved represent value for money, or an unscrupulous cash grab.
lol, i just listend to this so called "song" called gamer chick, what a horrible piece of garbage that was..
its not about any of those things its about covering up a casino that should have a gambling licience
its their way of earning money.....dont expect to make money and sure it will be an expensive game if you aint careful, that said sure I did hate to be farming sweet for hours n then blow the money made in a few min.
the fact you know its real money you sit fight for, sure make you feel the gambler in the stomach tho heh, dont think anyone made money on it, unless cheated other players...and the subscribtion is very expensive if you dont plan your investment, like you set in 30 $and buy some hot gear and go try kill some big one´s....except your char aint got the skills for it yet.....the skills meaning everything and taking ages to get up.
Even autotune couldn't fix that garbage.
I am going to have to agree with you. After hearing the auto-tune and seeing the graphics in the You Tube video I can see why it went "viral." Oh wow, I guess the girl he wrote it about died. That sucks. All jokes aside, that is a game over!
I have to agree with Regnevanz on this one. Let me add, I followed this game when it was in developement. and played from launch for about 2+ years. The issue for me is the game was billed as a the next generation of MMO with a real cash economy. There is no real, viable, self sustaining economy here, and there never was. What made it more annoying is you had to play very infrequently to stretch the typical dollars that most MMOs charge monthly. For $15 I could play my arse off in every other MMO, but in EU that wouldn't last a week. The final problem is at least in a casino i know my odds, in this game you have no clue to what the odds are and what mindark is actually taking the community for. I know they say they just make money of equipment decay but who knows. I felt a bit misled initially and then determined for me the game was a big money vacuum. I don't care for it and would not recommend. However to each his own, if you got a money tree in your backyard and a need for the adenaline rush of risking cash for great rewards...... by all means, enjoy.
On a side note the girl the song was written about was " Island Girl" in game. I had the pleasure of playing with her on a number of occasions, she was really nice and it was very sad to hear of her passing.
It's very easy to have a strong opinion about EU in general or Planet Calypso/Rocktropia specific and every thread here tends to turn into a scam/casino discussion. Because real money is involved emotions tend to run high and in a RCE that's the last thing you need as it will make you loose that money even faster. For many people who tried it and lost alot of money in the game it is much easier to claim it's a scam, casino or anything else instead of admitting they failed where others made it work. They will try to support their claims by posting rediculous examples like getting 20c return on $10 or write how long they have played. In turn the players who love the game will climb on their soapbox and do the exact opposite. As cliche as it might sound, and it has as been said several times already, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. Yes you can loose money real fast if you play your arse off like in every other MMO but you can also stretch it out quite a while if you play it smart, do research and can stick to your goals.
To try and bring this thread back on topic of the article a bit again, do you think a MMO might be a viable option for the music industry as a new medium. Would you go to virtual concerts while gaming or browse music from artists in a virtual music store? And if you're an artist or play in a band, would you try performing in such a virtual world? I admire Neverdie for following his dream and taking the risks that come with trying new things like these, i wish him the best of luck.
The game is a gamblers MMO, combining some of the worst aspects RMT's. It has too many aspects of the real world that I really don't want in my virtual world. For me a MMO is a break from the fiscal grind, not an extension of it.
I happen to like the song. OK, it's not Grammy award winning material or anything, but it's enjoyable and I've heard much worse. It's not everyone that likes a game so much, they go to the trouble to make a song and video about it.
As for Entropia itself, it costs exactly what you're willing to pay. Some play for $50/month, others for $500/month. Some play for free, though they have to work very hard at to do it. And yes, the amount of money you have changes what you can and can't do. However, there's plenty to do even on a very tight budget.
Yes, you spend money hunting, mining, crafting, whatever, and Mindark takes a portion. They need to get paid, y'know. The rest is given back as "loot". Hides, wools, ores, armor parts, etc. What you do with your loot can vastly change your personal results.
However, yes, if you spend big money and buy weapons and armor that's too big for your avatar's skill range, and go hunting big, dangerous mobs, you will be quite disappointed in your results.
Entropia's a game that's meant to be progressed in slowly. I repeat, s-l-o-w-l-y. As in years to reach a high level. And therein may be one of the big problems. Many who are used to games that can be "maxxed" in months may find the slow pace of Entropia annoying and in their haste to go too fast, make bad mistakes.
Also the fact that if you have poor money-management skills, that fact bleeds into the game. And if you suck with money, it's unfair to blame a game.
Neverdie's working hard to make ROCKtropia (his planet within the Entropia Universe) better and better. He'll do the same with Next Island. He believes strongly in this game and wants to share. Yes he makes money off of it. Oh the horror. Get over it.
its very good at relieving the players of that very troublesome burden, and yes.. i have a pretty good idea what that other purpose was
Some very good arguments in defence of the game though, or rather, in defence of the monetary system in the game, stretching credulity though they are, the profit margin per player is, somewhat exceptional, as the more time spent playing the game means a proportionately larger cash flow, whereas with other subbed games the amount of time spent in game doesnt affect how much it costs, though for EU i guess it means that those prepared to spend less, arent cluttering up the servers with their valueless time... really have to wonder how it can be passed off as just another one of those things, by saying some players pay 500 dollars a month.. as if it was an inconsequential amount of money.
I really enjoyed Entropia when I tried it out and still log in occassionally, though rarely these days with so many other new games to play. For years before the graphical upgrade, I thought the game looked like garbage and so wouldn't touch it. It's the same reason I never tried Everquest. It looked hideous.
The upgrade to the new engine changed all that and got my attention though. I can't really comment on the game mechanics of hunting and any of the higher level stuff because I never did them much or advanced far enough to experience the content, but the game world itself is beautiful now and fun to explore.
I only made a single payment of ten dollars to buy some cheap gear because I wanted to try out hunting and didn't even do that enough to use all of the initial pistol and rifle ammo I bought. I've never had to pay to repair any of my gear after the initial repair of my newbie jumpsuit (you start with your newbie jumpsuit in low repair, or at least did when I started).
Since I didn't invest in lots of ammo and do a lot of hunting I never advanced very far either, of course, but I really enjoyed just running around the absolutely massive world (parts of two huge continents are what I was able to explore with the skills I had) and trying things out.
Exploring was kind of a mini game of its own since the wilderness is extremely dangerous to newbie characters. So the game as I jogged about sightseeing was keeping an eye on my radar, noting where the often enormous dinosaur like creatures and such actually where in the distance, and trying to avoid them as I snuck passed or around them on my way.
Anyway, I'm just saying that I think this game gets a bad rap to some degree as people focus on the real money trading aspect of it too much. I agree it is unlikely and maybe impossible for someone hell bent on 'leveling' quickly like one might be used to with other MMOs to do so without putting a lot of money they are extremely unlikely to get a return on into the game.
That said, I've put about 100 hours into it over the months since the graphics engine upgrade and spent only 10 bucks that I paid right after I started. That seems like a pretty good deal for me given that it'd have been spending $15 a month if it'd have been some mainstream subscription MMO I was spreading those gameplay hours over instead.
So based on my own experience treating this one as essentially a free to play game (minus my small initial payment I guess), someone with a love of exploring could easily have a great time just spending about what they already spend on existing MMOs (15ish bucks a month) and keeping the mindset that it is like a subscription fee just like they do with WoW or similar. Then if they kill something or discover some mining deposit and get a big prize it is just a nice surprise and not something they were counting on for their fun.
My recommendation would be to do what I do and keep your pay to play MMOs that eat up the lionshare of your hobby time, then keep games like Entropia installed for when you want a little change of pace. Then enjoy it as you like whenever you like without any pressure.
Am I the only one that some how sees this game as a joke? I mean there is RMT and then there's RMT. When I buy Lindens in Second Life I know it's not money, it's tokens for bling in a virtual world. What does the equivalent get me in EU? Maybe a few hours of play. Seriously, I use to be a proponent for some kind of RMT, but pure RMT like this is a literal sham as it monetized the player's time and experience to such a level that you might as well just pay 15USD up front for a regular game or possibly save up another 15USD to get yourself a good triple A game with some sort of multiplayer you don't have to pay for to play with your friends.
Again, I'm all for different business models, but if the developers aren't even up for different gameplay models too then I'm not up for paying a single penny to play theirs as the competitors are selling for cheaper and in more quantity by contrast.
In all honesty there are players who agree with the RMT nature of Entropia and players who disagree with it. Instead of calling players dumb for agreeing with it (some would call you dumb for disagreeing with it, remember that!) why dont we take a look at the reasons why folks fall into either camp.
Agree
Price isn't the problem that I have with EU, but it's how the structure of monetization rewards big spenders over little spenders. Let me give you an example in CO. Every costume piece can be had two ways: buy from the C-store or grind out perks to unlock. In either case, once you unlock a costume piece it's open for all characters in that account (a big plus). So for the lifetime of the account (plus subscription) I can consume (use) the costume pieces as often as I want for as long as I want (again with subscription). Contrast that with EU, I purchase equipment that not only has to be repaired, but will wear out completely to be lost forever regardless of chance on the rate of return. Also, the rate of return is often obscured compared to other games where your odds are often either up front or easily computed after enough runs. So, EU by contrast is on shaky ground by virtue of the fact that both in terms of consumption of content and return on gameplay often are at a net negative both in terms of physical (monetary) and psychic (psychological enjoyment) profit.
On the latter kind of profit, it's more so true for EU as if you screw up you are out of some serious money, but if you screw up in CO you're only out of time as the charge for subscription is a fixed cost (or possibly considered more properly a sunk cost) which adds real economic analysis to gameplay rather than an emphasis on analysis (non-economic) on the gameplay itself. In essence, EU is an economic game, not a roleplay game. Thus, big spenders are often more willing to lose money as they're playing it as an economy, but a little spender plays it as a game. And both lose out on enjoyment by virtue of the further meta-game analysis (the economics of playing the game) added by design in EU in contrast to CO or other online games.
I think youre confusing EU with other Free to Play games. This isnt some cash shop game where you can logon, buy a cool item, and be at a massive advantage right away. In fact its the opposite. If you logon and buy the biggest gun and the baddest toy right away youre going to find yourself spending alot of money per shot compared to someone who is actually trained. Why? Because they spent the time to train up their skills to use that weapon. As for sharing the experience with other characters on the account, and the items, in EU you can only have 1 character. That being said, all your items are in fact shared with every character on your account!
Taking the example above and understanding it correctly, the game rewards folks who spend wisely, not spend large amonts. And spending does not have to come from your wallet. Many of my society mates play for free. How can they do this? They found a good group that helps them stretch their balance. A balance they earned by doing the most mundane of tasks ingame: Sweating.
Regarding equipment complete loss... you can choose to buy Limited use equipment (which has its advantages and disadvantages) or you can choose to buy unlimited use equipment. I use both. Theres no rule saying you cant use all one or all of another. Or none at all. Sometimes I cruise around in just my shorts. The shorts dont decay unless I decided to wear some other fashion, monsters dont damage them, and I can use my unlimited sword and bash some heads in.
"In essence, EU is an economic game, not a roleplay game."
Economy is a part of the game in EU, but it is not the entire game. It was also a part of the game in Ultima Online and Asheron's Call. I played both games for many years and can attest to their economic nature. Gold dupers ruined the economy in UO, causing a large stir in the community from which many bannings resulted. In AC if you controlled a supply of Platinum Scarabs your group was in a winning position. Each game emphasises economy differently. Theyre different games, and thats their right. To say however that EU is an economic game and not a roleplay game is ignoring the fact that there are other things happening within the Entropia Universe.
Frankly Im wondering why your view is so slanted against EU? Have you tried it and just didnt like it, or did you simply read about it and decide it was a poor idea and are now railing against it?
I have my negative opinions about EU, dont get me wrong. I think at its heart theres a Ponzi scheme at play. But its a fun product, and I dont take its economy seriously. its simply another part of the challenge. Maybe thats where you and I differ. You seem rather hung up on the economic nature of it, and like many other players within EU and without, have forgotten that its just a game... and games are what you make of them.
There is no justification at all. Video games shouldn't cost hundreds and thousands of dollars to play. That the game drains so much money so fast shows it to be little more than a scam targeting people that have no financial sense. It's unethical as hell and honestly shouldn't be given any space on a mmo site or even played for free.
It's not about gameplay or risk and reward: you can make a casino like rush without using real world money through random drops and other means. It's about using the skinner box style MMO gameplay to hook people for real world money to an insane degree: 20k is a years pay for many people, and the price of a new car. All wasted on pixels.
Ok, let's look at this game. It does not have great graphics nor great gameplay, yet it is probably the most expensive MMO out there. True if you are lucky enough you can actually get some return on your investment in this game. Again that is a big if.
So if you play the game for the money aspect it is pretty much outright gambling. If you do it for fun I would just have to question why, as there are so many far better games to have fun in these days.
So belittle my comments all you want. I still see no reason for any one to waste time on it myself. I have not seen one comment in this thread that offers any evidence to the contrary besides saying it is fun. I guess some people are masachists when it comes to grind because this game has it and you have to pay heavily for it. If that is what you call fun, well I guess it takes all types...
I think you misunderstand why people are annoyed with the RMT of EU. Yes, some may have an issue with the items you listed, but that's not the real reason.
The RMT of EU is to purchase time at the one arm bandit style casino that EU set up. Hunting itself reminds me very much of scratch tickets. I have played the game twice. Both times I was disgusted with how players around me were treating the game.
From my observations and listening to people that have been playing for years - Hunting is less about the thrill of a challenging kill and more about the thrill of possible loot. I won't rattle off numbers, because I don't know the ratios of money spent vs. gained. However, it is WELL known that the odds are in the houses favor and hunting by itself is a loosing proposition. The more money you spend, chances are the more you will be able to play longer per dollar due to more gains than a person just spending $10. However, in the end - you will loose money - just like a slot machine.
This reminds me of the online casinos. Mind Ark even lets you cash out. The problem is with EU, they are unregulated. Who's to say what the odds are on their loot table drops vs. the amount of money you are sinking into the game. And a lot of people I met were in it for the thrill of that next big loot drop. Reminded me of friends that were addicted to scratch tickets. The difference is that I can flip a scratch ticket over and see exactly what the odds are. In this game, you can't.
The engine upgrade actually improved the graphics tremendously in my opinion. Certainly it is a prettier game than aging offerings like Everquest 2 and City of Heroes. The total package isn't on par with Age of Conan or maybe Aion either though, but there aren't many MMOs that are right now.
I don't understand why you and so many others feel like this has to be a right or wrong answer kind of question. There is no right or wrong answer to taste in MMOs. If you like Jazz, it doesn't make someone who likes Heavy Metal wrong. If you like paying Blizzard $15 a month for WoW, it doesn't make someone who wants to spend $100 a month gambling on Entropia wrong.
I understand how you may have overlooked my huge block of text a page or two ago in this thread, especially since my experience doesn't support your argument whatsoever, but I felt like I offered a fair example of how Entropia can be fun without a large or any investment. Now, if you're a hardcore gamer that likes to raid for 8 hours a night, you're likely to run up the bills fast in Entropia (where there isn't any raiding anyway). Someone who just wants to do some exploring and socialize can have a great time though for a little or no investment at all.
What's 100 hours of gameplay into 10 dollars invested spread over the 10 months since the graphics upgrade when I started my occassional playing? I'm averaging 10 hours of playtime a month at 10 cents an hour or something like that? That's not exactly breaking the bank is it?
Played it for a bit more than a month myself. In that time I spent around $100 for armor and other such. Its not a bad game all things considered, its design just doesn't hang together as well as I'd expect. But I totally agree that it can get expensive fast if one isn't careful.
I don't see a problem with Entropia's potential costs making it exclusive either. In the late 80's and early 90's, when widespread access to the internet was first becoming available, it was prohibitively expensive too. To access GEnie during prime time US hours to chat or play a text-based MUD like Gemstone could run you more than $10 an hour. $1500 bills were not unheard of at all. Makes that $60 a month cable bill and $15 a month MMO subscription look pretty good now huh?
I'm as glad as anyone else that we have cheap unlimited broadband connections these days and flat rate monthly subscriptions to most of the games we love. The people willing to pay thousands of dollars a month for their hobbies are still out there in large numbers though and Entropia caters to them and their resources.
The funny thing about all this casino garbage is that folks blithely ignore the fact --- yes fact --- that gambling is illegal in Sweden where this game is published, and the company has been thoroughly investigated for gambling already.
Guess what.
The investigating commission determined that the game was not gambling. The system was at its core predictable, and a player with the right information could deterimine when the next mother lode would strike.
Folks who think this game is gambling are wrong. It is a difficult game with a very deep system. Its a challenge. The information is out there for you to assemble, if you are resourceful enough to do it. Its all public.
So here's what I understand and accept when I play EU.
Lets try some understanding and acceptance of EU on this community's end.
Im an old gaming vet. I started with UO when it first launched. I played AC Darktide at launch. I played Shadowbane at Launch. EverQuest at launch. Darkfall, Perfect World, Jade Dynasty, Spellborn and many others. Entropia is the best game I have played since Asheron's Call and UO. The challenge here is immense, and the time commitment is pronounced. It has everything I was hoping to see in Darkfall, and retains the sense of unknown that has long since been missing from MMO's since the release of WOW.
If this game isnt for some people, thats fine by me. However as an adult with a varying schedule, my own income and responsibilities, and a love for computer games, I have found a great game to hang out in. Since 2002 Ive been looking for a decent game. Im only sorry I didnt try this one out sooner.
I like how people that have never played this game defend it.
Many people that enjoy this game are probably stuck playing it because they want to make their money back or come out on top. This "game" is just a GAMBLING CASINO IN DISGUISE. Heres how entropia works:
-You play the game for the first time.You have nothing. So you gather sweat for days and days and sell to other players
-If you made it this far you've made about 50 cents in a few days depending on how many hours you play each day.
-At this point you still cant buy anything decent so you quit or you put money into the game.
-You spend 10 dollars to buy armor, weapons and ammo.
-You go hunting and make about 15 dollars From selling materials to others. You're thinking "oh boy 15 dollars"
-You armor is damage and you repair each piece for a total of 3 dollars.You buy more ammo for 1 dollar.
-Congrats you spent a week making about 1 Dollar.
So you see, its a gamble because you are hoping to make more than it costs to spend on repairs and equipment. Most people never do. This is a GOOD scenario. You aren't going to get many people to buy your materials for much, there aren't any NPCs to sell to(only to buy from), there aren't any money drops. In a realistic scenario you'd have to put in way more than 10 bucks, and you wouldn't make 15 dollars so easily.
This game is set up so mindark makes money. If you take off your armor the armor gets damaged. Your gun gets damaged every time you use it. This game is set up so you are constantly spending your money. If you take out the real money aspect of this "game" its just a crappy mmo without any quests.
The only people that could really enjoy this game are those making money off of it, or gambling addicts that think they'll make it big or even one day. I'm not saying this game is super horrible. I'd actually like to see more games with the same concept only making it skill based rather than based on luck (like a casino). But if you never played it, you can't insult people that dislike it after having played it.
Most people don't realize whats really going on with this "game" and its quite funny. If you have played entropia for a few days you'll know what I'm talking about. Or if you can open your mind to the core concept of this game. All the money flowing in this game was purchased and when things are repaired or purchased, that digital money is gone forever. Its not a bad thing because they have to make their money and they do it well.
I think rocktropia is a bastardization by Neverdie of entropia. I enjoy entropia, other than the ever worsening loot returns for my real life money... but hey that is why I limit my play and am searching for another mmo atm. Great graphics for entropia, great concept, but anti rewarding for time and effort of player.
Its not gambling. MindArk has been investigated by their national government in that regard. I have no real idea why some people continue to insist, in spite of evidence to the contrary, that they are a casino. Its just a game with a different business model. Its not one I find any real interest in, but to each their own.
I currently play this game. I have no illusions of "making it big" via the system, the system does not allow that. I have not made money off this game. I like the game, and think it is the future of the MMO genre.
Oh and for the record, the game is skill based. Youve tied the monster loot in with "Skill" in such a way as to confuse the reader. Let me undo that knot:
If monster loot was based off "skill" then it stands to reason that if you performed some uber combo on a mob you would be rewarded with uber loot for your very skilled move. Can anyone tell me a game that does that, or should? Folks would just macro up a super finisher and loot epic weapons off every mob they killed.
That sounds pretty stupid, doesnt it? Even WOW isnt this lame --- and yet this user suggests that EU go in this direction! Some folks need to design their own MMO's just to find out how bad their ideas really are.
You cannot tell me that you haven't heard of counting cards. Even slot machines are predictable over time. Which is why the more they are played without a jackpot, probability dictates the higher the chance of a large payout. Which is why a gambler can become violent at casinos if you take their chair for any reason. It's also why casinos watch people who win big too often and escourt them on their merry way.
And you are also right.. most courts would not refer to this as gambling. Simply because most courts do not take video games serious. Also, the game have non-gambling elements that allow you to play full time as well. Kind of like the WoW card games. You can play the WoW card game... but a lot buy the packs for the chance to get a mini-pet in game. A chance... that's what gambling is all about.
So, please understand, I am not calling it a casino. But, if you are looking at hunting .. and are hoping for that next juicy loot drop, while you are pouring in cash for ammo (not saying you in particular)... that is gambling. My main issue with this is that the odds of the chance of you winning something with more value of your ammo should be displayed somewhere.
Oy vey. :-) This argument could go around and around forever. Suffice it to say I think we differ in our perception of social responsibility. It sounds like you object to the game because a player could use it to gamble. I agree with that assessment, however anything could be used as a gamble. You can speed up your car at the yellow light, hoping to make it through before it turns red and you get a $371 ticket. Thats gambling. You could smoke 2 packs a day for 20 years and figure you will end up like your granddad, who lived till 97, ignoring all evidence to the cotrary. Also gambling.
I think where you and I differ is in the question of who is responsible for unhealthy behavior? You seem to lean towards the philosophy that the developer has an obligation to create a product that on some level oversees its users and ensures their good health. I believe a user should oversee themselves. If they cannot do that it is not someone elses responsibility to babysit them.
There is a clear difference between gambling for financial gain and gambling as a thrill. In Entropia, it's common belief and openly advertised that you can gain money. People hope for the big prize and cash out while they are ahead. That is blatently different than speeding through that almost red light and hope you don't get a ticket.
And no.. I'm not arguing social values. I'm calling the game as it is instead of using hidden marketing terms to avoid the fact that it is not a normal MMORPG. My only problem with the developer is that they do not release the odds of which you have to "earn winnings". It's like buying lottery tickets without the odds displayed for a cash prize limit that you don't know.... or.... going to a poker table and playing a hand while the dealer never has to reveal their cards.... or... playing on a roulette table that all the numbers are missing. It's blatently wrong when the game itself is used as a gambling medium.
To clarify this - Please keep in mind that I not against gambling. I am not saying the responsibility of gambling and addiction should belong on just the developer (it does to a point when sly marketing tactics are concerned). I am also not saying that the game itself is bad (although I feel that the gathering could be improved). I am also not saying that the entire game is about gambling - However, combat does.
The *individual* is responsible for *their own* behavior(and the consequences there of). Any other approach leads into the various collectivist hells that history is so full of examples of. EU isn't my type of game, but that is simply my personal choice. One has to question the ideology and agenda of those who insist that it is "gambling". That has certain knee jerk reactions to those who insist on controlling other people lives and resources. All for the "greater good" of course...
Bottom line, Mindark just has a different business model for their game than some others. If they have enough players to stay in business and make a profit, then more power to them.
Omitted the first paragraph. It was just rehashing. Lets deal with the second and third.
First, what is a normal MMO? You seem interested in calling things as they are -- so I will follow that lead.
Viewing a normal MMO through these categories it can be easily surmised that there isnt an MMO developer out there who gives a rats ass about their consumers health, well being, or financial status. That being said how is Entropia any worse than any other MMO. Its developers dont give a hoot about you, your health, or your mortgage. They simply want your time and your money. It is a extremely normal MMO.
As for sly marketing tactics, what MMO developer has come out and said the above, and then said "Hey so buy our product" afterwards? I'll give you a short answer. None. Guess theyre all involved in sly marketing tactics. Or perhaps you actually are a hero flinging a sword the size of a small aircraft around like a toy....
I'm curious what kind of odds you would like the developers to release because it's not that simple. In a lottery you buy a ticket and hope for the best, same with a roulette table. In EU player skills and avatar skills affect your "winnings" by choosing the right mobs to hunt with the right weapons at the right level for example. You can't factor those skills into odds of a return rate.
You should have pressed "T" to wind up at the nearest revive terminal. :)
Just love reading this thread. Whine whine whine....
People always say them want new thinking, well here you go.
This game has introduced tons of new ways to play an MMORPG. But go back and play your damn wow-clones that some asian guy cut and patched together over a weekend.
I played EU on and off for 3 years. I never put a cent in and got stuff and skills worth about 5000 dollars.
Just because you are to stupid to handle your money. But please, I got room for your money too.