Not even this can make me go back to the game and I have a lifetime membership.

Yet another butch of stuff.  This time they gave us level 64 skills, and the LM's 2 times in a row get kicked in the teeth, and not even one dev would even stand up.  You got to wonder why they refuse to listen to their player base.

The dev's in this game certainly have an ego, and no mater what is said they plow forward with bad and lackluster skills, while saying the reason the skills are not used is folks forget about them.  The real reason the skill was a joke in the first place.

Originally posted by erictlewis

Not even this can make me go back to the game and I have a lifetime membership.

Yet another butch of stuff.  This time they gave us level 64 skills, and the LM's 2 times in a row get kicked in the teeth, and not even one dev would even stand up.  You got to wonder why they refuse to listen to their player base.

The dev's in this game certainly have an ego, and no mater what is said they plow forward with bad and lackluster skills, while saying the reason the skills are not used is folks forget about them.  The real reason the skill was a joke in the first place.

Pretty much what i have to say.

LOTRO is a great game, im a lifer for a reason! But its obvious that the devs just dont care anymore. They are spending too much time going back and forth on the same issues and not spending enough time and resources on fixing classes and such.

As for the new skills...woah. Just...woah. Im not sure why the hell the devs responsible for those skill "upgrades" are still employed.

Im VERY QUICKLY losing interest in LOTRO, in-fact i only ever log on now to chat to some old friends.

I just hope when the Rohan expansion, if it is indeed in development, is in the scale like Shadows of Angmar with new starting areas and so forth, but if it is anything like Mirkwood, or even Moria with just more end game, and gear gating then frankly Turbine doesn't deserve this IP.

Originally posted by Christopher8

I just hope when the Rohan expansion, if it is indeed in development, is in the scale like Shadows of Angmar with new starting areas and so forth, but if it is anything like Mirkwood, or even Moria with just more end game, and gear gating then frankly Turbine doesn't deserve this IP.

If it is indeed like this, my time will be done in Middle Earth more than likely.

It's time for some fresh ideas on how to move the game forward again.  Repeatable instances(skirmishes), and more of the same, gear gating, end game encounters is not going to keep this game alive IMO.  I mean, what developer would read their forums and see that the player base is tired of doing the same things over and over and over again, then develop...wait for it...skirmishes, which are repeatable instances.  Oh sure they scale to the group, but beyond that it is the same 4 encounters over and over and over again.  Turbine gave the players exactly what they said they didn't want, and what makes it even worse is that skirmishes made up the bulk of the Siege of Mirkwood update/x-pack/adventure pack....

I have been here since beta and I am a lifer. I have seen some great times and developments in this game but that all seem to change with MoM.  The mentality of the playerbase changed then, as did the direction of development.  It went from a game that had many different options to achieve similar goals to one in which there was only one path(gear gated instances and the instances to obtain said gear).  The forums took a marked turn towards negativity where once there was always friendly banter and a positive vibe.

*shrug*  I hope they can turn it around and get it back to the glory that were the days before MoM, but given recent happenings I do not hold out much faith.  Turbine just doesn't seem to have the focus they once did on LOTRO.

I have stopped with MoM expansion

While it was amazing piece of work. Moria is truly something never previously seen in design or scope, in any video game. Single player or multi.

It was obvious that game slowly shifted from story oriented towards gear grind oriented.

But the biggest hit for me was to class balance.

How utility classes were slowly pushed away (both burglars and lm) and it became just DPS rule game.

Mirkwood. Another favorite area didnt encite me to buy. New area was just to small , and addition of stuff like skirmishes could not interest me less.

Still. I have high fate in Turbine. And do not doubt they can return to old style with next expansion. Provided it will be big and serious.

Well I dont have faith in turbine any more.  They really seam to have lost their way.

Anybody can clearly see that LOTRO is on maintenance now.  Small xpac, small book update.  After last year of getting less and less, is now continued.

This book was an utter failure.

Forochel was part of a free update. That was tons of quests, new land mass. Look back at all the SoA books and they were really well done.

This one focused entirely on skirmishes (which btw, are just a fun side game weren't they?), and 1 book which is walk around and talk to people. There are some small instances so far which is kill 6x, 8y, and talk to the NPC.

No substance imo.

Some really nice changes in this update and its nice to see that Turbine listned to the community with duo-skirmishes, Volume 1 getting scaleable and the crafting changes.

The post-holiday updates have always been abit small for LotrO so its not a huge surprise (book 12 maybe being the "worst" update the game ever got). But I think there should have been another 6-man dungeon or two in this update since thats whats lacking at lvl 65.

Heres hoping that Riders of Rohan is getting announced at pax east!

The nerfs to crafting (even worse, the undocumented stealth-nerfs) in this latest content patch has really given me pause. Turbine needs to dazzle the hell out of me Soon™ with some stellar updates and changes to their game, cuz my "Looking for Another MMO to Play" Wandering Eye was activated by this latest patch.

This is a great addition, you guys are crazy.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

This is a great addition, you guys are crazy.

I been wondering where you been hiding at.   We anyway in responce we the player base of the LM class don't like the latest skill upgrade for lore master. It was an insult when they told us a strong skill not used because the lore master comunity forgot how to apply it.

You might be able to solo volume one now, been there done it the hard way.   So that leaves us with more skimishes. 

Sorry if that is the best we can do, I will say the game is now on maintenance. 

Originally posted by erictlewis

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

This is a great addition, you guys are crazy.

 

I been wondering where you been hiding at.   We anyway in responce we the player base of the LM class don't like the latest skill upgrade for lore master. It was an insult when they told us a strong skill not used because the lore master comunity forgot how to apply it.

You might be able to solo volume one now, been there done it the hard way.   So that leaves us with more skimishes. 

Sorry if that is the best we can do, I will say the game is now on maintenance. 

 

 

I don't think the game is on maintenance. 

What I do think is that Turbine is a small company in an area that is hit pretty hard by the economic downturn.

They only have so many people  and I believe they had some layoffs. So, they make due. 

I see this as just being a small update within the larger scope of things.

In any case I will be at PAX East and I can't imagine that they won't be there so it will be neat to see what they have in store.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by erictlewis

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

This is a great addition, you guys are crazy.

 

I been wondering where you been hiding at.   We anyway in responce we the player base of the LM class don't like the latest skill upgrade for lore master. It was an insult when they told us a strong skill not used because the lore master comunity forgot how to apply it.

You might be able to solo volume one now, been there done it the hard way.   So that leaves us with more skimishes. 

Sorry if that is the best we can do, I will say the game is now on maintenance. 

 

 

 

I don't think the game is on maintenance. 

What I do think is that Turbine is a small company in an area that is hit pretty hard by the economic downturn.

They only have so many people  and I believe they had some layoffs. So, they make due. 

I see this as just being a small update within the larger scope of things.

In any case I will be at PAX East and I can't imagine that they won't be there so it will be neat to see what they have in store.

Would you please do us all a favor, well those of who who live hundreds of miles away.  Put a post up of what you do see. I would be interested to know whats in store.   I got a fealing were going to be seing that console game from Turbine.

Originally posted by erictlewis

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by erictlewis

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

This is a great addition, you guys are crazy.

 

I been wondering where you been hiding at.   We anyway in responce we the player base of the LM class don't like the latest skill upgrade for lore master. It was an insult when they told us a strong skill not used because the lore master comunity forgot how to apply it.

You might be able to solo volume one now, been there done it the hard way.   So that leaves us with more skimishes. 

Sorry if that is the best we can do, I will say the game is now on maintenance. 

 

 

 

I don't think the game is on maintenance. 

What I do think is that Turbine is a small company in an area that is hit pretty hard by the economic downturn.

They only have so many people  and I believe they had some layoffs. So, they make due. 

I see this as just being a small update within the larger scope of things.

In any case I will be at PAX East and I can't imagine that they won't be there so it will be neat to see what they have in store.

 

Would you please do us all a favor, well those of who who live hundreds of miles away.  Put a post up of what you do see. I would be interested to know whats in store.   I got a fealing were going to be seing that console game from Turbine.

 

Oh of course I will. My girlfriend has even offered me her camera so I will have pics.

Originally posted by erictlewis

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

This is a great addition, you guys are crazy.

 

I been wondering where you been hiding at.   We anyway in responce we the player base of the LM class don't like the latest skill upgrade for lore master. It was an insult when they told us a strong skill not used because the lore master comunity forgot how to apply it.

You might be able to solo volume one now, been there done it the hard way.   So that leaves us with more skimishes. 

Sorry if that is the best we can do, I will say the game is now on maintenance. 

 

 

It is amazing that your one personal subjective nitpick somehow is the voice of the people, and has brought doom to one of the more successful MMO's out.

Amazing I say.

Next week, burglars cry doom.

I have been with LOTRO since phase 1 closed beta, i have lifetime account, I am a big fan of the game, for my money it has been the best story driven mmo, I have ever played, and i have been playing mmo's for over10 years..with that said here comes the But, with Mikwood and the new book, I feel let down, Turbine can tell a good story, but I need content, the quality of life patches are good, I know turbine has a new project in the works, and I fear lotro is feeling the lose of allot of the original dev team, several things turbine has done that does not set well with me and allot of people I know, lotro has become a bit more grindy that used to be, with the legendary system and all the randomness, along with gated content..they have quite a treadmill going for the player base now.

I do hope Rohan is a huge expansion at the very least on the scale of Moria, lotro needs a good player morale boost, from what I have seen. I still play the gam,e only I play much more casual now than i used to, I do enjoy a good skirmish from time to time. Lot of new mmo's on the way, for example Biowares SWTOR, these older games are gona feel the crunch if they can't offer thier player base a reason to stay on, with me I have had my liftime account so long I play for free only thing I pay for is new expansions, I have got my money's worth along time ago..:)

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by erictlewis

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

This is a great addition, you guys are crazy.

 

I been wondering where you been hiding at.   We anyway in responce we the player base of the LM class don't like the latest skill upgrade for lore master. It was an insult when they told us a strong skill not used because the lore master comunity forgot how to apply it.

You might be able to solo volume one now, been there done it the hard way.   So that leaves us with more skimishes. 

Sorry if that is the best we can do, I will say the game is now on maintenance. 

 

 

 

It is amazing that your one personal subjective nitpick somehow is the voice of the people, and has brought doom to one of the more successful MMO's out.

 

Amazing I say.

 

Next week, burglars cry doom.

 

 

I would hardly say his complaint is personal.  There have been numerous complaints about class defining skills, such as crowd control for LM, being rendered useless with the new content since MoM.

I have been here since beta, am a lifetime subber, and while I will not say the game is doomed, because it certainly is not, I will agree that it is not enjoying the usage it did before MoM.  The game has gotten stale for many players, old and new.  And while I will agree with you that LOTRO is one of the more successful recent MMO's, it's not what it once was.  IMO, it has lost it's way from it's SoA days.

I do have faith in Turbine to bring the game back though,

Originally posted by Einherjar_LC

Originally posted by Christopher8

I just hope when the Rohan expansion, if it is indeed in development, is in the scale like Shadows of Angmar with new starting areas and so forth, but if it is anything like Mirkwood, or even Moria with just more end game, and gear gating then frankly Turbine doesn't deserve this IP.

 

If it is indeed like this, my time will be done in Middle Earth more than likely.

 

It's time for some fresh ideas on how to move the game forward again.  Repeatable instances(skirmishes), and more of the same, gear gating, end game encounters is not going to keep this game alive IMO.  I mean, what developer would read their forums and see that the player base is tired of doing the same things over and over and over again, then develop...wait for it...skirmishes, which are repeatable instances.  Oh sure they scale to the group, but beyond that it is the same 4 encounters over and over and over again.  Turbine gave the players exactly what they said they didn't want, and what makes it even worse is that skirmishes made up the bulk of the Siege of Mirkwood update/x-pack/adventure pack....

 

I have been here since beta and I am a lifer. I have seen some great times and developments in this game but that all seem to change with MoM.  The mentality of the playerbase changed then, as did the direction of development.  It went from a game that had many different options to achieve similar goals to one in which there was only one path(gear gated instances and the instances to obtain said gear).  The forums took a marked turn towards negativity where once there was always friendly banter and a positive vibe.

 

*shrug*  I hope they can turn it around and get it back to the glory that were the days before MoM, but given recent happenings I do not hold out much faith.  Turbine just doesn't seem to have the focus they once did on LOTRO.

unfortunately this is what a LOT of mmos do now, and what a lot of players thrive on, Look at WoW and the other games. It toke away the adventure and storyline to apease the power gamers (reminds me of the pencil and paper power gamers), GOT TO GET that next big piece of gear or epic..hell I remember even in wow (pre bc) epics felt more epic because they were a LOT harder to get/atain. I hope too that Lotro does not get converted into the NOW trend.

I just recently came back to LOTRO after hopping around trying out some other mmos, and I remember why I loved the game in the first place. Its got the epic story with some nice cut scenes, the world was very well put together, the crafting system is a krap load better than anyother game (after all the attention/revamps) I have played, I aspecially like the fact that when you do craft it actually shows you crafting and not just beating off in your hand >.0. /cheers

Gear gating is not an issue, and it was only EVER and issue for those that RAID, those that RAID REQUESTED this kind of system, because they NEED IT. The requirements for it have been severely reduced, and there are MANY paths to acquire it now, and most lack repetition. 

It is STILL, however the most "lite" version of gear gating you will find in any MMO. So, some people need a bit of perspective before crying doom about it. It is Moot at this point. Its a complaint from months ago perpetuated by those that don't play anymore or refuse to give turbine credit for making feedback based adjustments.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 

Gear gating is not an issue, and it was only EVER and issue for those that RAID, those that RAID REQUESTED this kind of system, because they NEED IT. The requirements for it have been severely reduced, and there are MANY paths to acquire it now, and most lack repetition. 

It is STILL, however the most "lite" version of gear gating you will find in any MMO. So, some people need a bit of perspective before crying doom about it. It is Moot at this point. Its a complaint from months ago perpetuated by those that don't play anymore or refuse to give turbine credit for making feedback based adjustments.

 

It was not an issue for only those that raid, it was an issue for those that wanted to experience all the content they paid for with the expansions, thanks for playing though.  There were epic raids before MoM and there were few if any complaints about them.  You know why?  They were accessible to everyone and this worked fine for LOTRO.

The requirements have not been reduced.  They have added different ways of obtaining said items, but they all require grind no matter how you look at it and no one way is less tedious than the other.

"Lite" version or not, it still exists and is a very relative point.  All one has to do is take a stroll through the official forums to see it's still very much an issue.

I guess I am one of those perpetuating this complaint, but I was here in beta, I have a lifetime sub, and I still play.  Guess you were wrong on that point.  Generalizations FTL!

I love the game and think Turbine is one of the best development houses out there, but I'm also not going to sugarcoat things I think are wrong with the game.  It has fallen off the path that made it so successful during the SoA years.  They need to get back to that fomula.

Originally posted by Einherjar_LC

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 

Gear gating is not an issue, and it was only EVER and issue for those that RAID, those that RAID REQUESTED this kind of system, because they NEED IT. The requirements for it have been severely reduced, and there are MANY paths to acquire it now, and most lack repetition. 

It is STILL, however the most "lite" version of gear gating you will find in any MMO. So, some people need a bit of perspective before crying doom about it. It is Moot at this point. Its a complaint from months ago perpetuated by those that don't play anymore or refuse to give turbine credit for making feedback based adjustments.

 

 

It was not an issue for only those that raid, it was an issue for those that wanted to experience all the content they paid for with the expansions, thanks for playing though. 

That's retarded, you will never experience every bit of "content" in any MMO.

Not all if it is for you, nor are you entitled to it. You are entitled to what you, are ABLE to consume, for whatever reason. Thankfully, there is a ton of content for many play styles in this game, enough for everyone.

The rest of your post is hyperbole. Or, lack of information about the changes the game has undergone.

I am also a lifer.

Raiding is a meta game with in the game, it has its own rules, you want to participate for whatever reason, however you don't want to play by the rules. Don't fault the design for your personal lack of ability to participate. There is so much more than raids in this game, other games even do it better. Its like, 1% of the games content, as was added by player request.

What I never understood was all the crying about gear gating. I mean it was easy as hell to get radiance armor in MoM. You get to 60, get a group and run a dungeon for 45 mins and a token drops. Some need others dont and pass. Take the token and get the corresponding armor to the token. 6 different dungeons, 6 tokens and 6 pieces of armor. I just didnt get it. WIth a 2 -3 hour span you could run a dungeon 3-4 times and for sure get your piece. Over a couple of weeks (at MOST) you have your armor and are ready to kill the Watcher or w/e raid you chose. It wasnt hard.

I mean WoW has a emblem system that you can spend to get your gear but this is a considerable amount of tokens and can take some time. Also they add tokens(or emblems) after the patch has been out for a while. Originally you gotta do raids to hope to get good gear and win the roll. Then you get geared from the 10-man and run the 25-man. Sure its simple to get the gear but it can take a while for a casual player.

I dont like easy mode but due to the overall relaxed nature of LotRO, I prefer the LotRO system because of it simplicity that allows people to not be gear score crazy or all about effeciency so that they can quickly get all of thier tokens or w/e.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Einherjar_LC

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 

Gear gating is not an issue, and it was only EVER and issue for those that RAID, those that RAID REQUESTED this kind of system, because they NEED IT. The requirements for it have been severely reduced, and there are MANY paths to acquire it now, and most lack repetition. 

It is STILL, however the most "lite" version of gear gating you will find in any MMO. So, some people need a bit of perspective before crying doom about it. It is Moot at this point. Its a complaint from months ago perpetuated by those that don't play anymore or refuse to give turbine credit for making feedback based adjustments.

 

 

It was not an issue for only those that raid, it was an issue for those that wanted to experience all the content they paid for with the expansions, thanks for playing though. 

 

That's retarded, you will never experience every bit of "content" in any MMO.

 

Funny, I never had any problem experiencing all of the content of SoA.  But you say it's impossible so it must be....hyperbole indeed.

 

Not all if it is for you, nor are you entitled to it. You are entitled to what you, are ABLE to consume, for whatever reason. Thankfully, there is a ton of content for many play styles in this game, enough for everyone.

 

This might hold water if it were not for the fact that LOTRO by design in the SoA days enabled everyone to do everything.  Entitlement has nothing to do with it.  It's more about enjoying everything the game has to offer which everyone could do pre-MoM without predefined limitations.

The rest of your post is hyperbole. Or, lack of information about the changes the game has undergone.

 

Laff!  The changes are well documented and I have done much testing with all versions of the game past and present.

 

I am also a lifer.

 

Excellent, it was an awesome deal.

 

Raiding is a meta game with in the game, it has its own rules, you want to participate for whatever reason, however you don't want to play by the rules. Don't fault the design for your personal lack of ability to participate. There is so much more than raids in this game, other games even do it better. Its like, 1% of the games content, as was added by player request.

 

My personal lack of ability to participate?  Again, nice assumption on your part.  I have two characters with full radiance gear.  I had no problem getting it.  I still think it's a poor mechanic that pulls away from the way the game was initially designed and eliminates, or at least makes it extremely difficult for some players to experience that content.  I don't think that's right.  I prefer the SoA days when everyone was able to participate in everything.  Now that is not the case.

 

 

 

Originally posted by Swoogie

What I never understood was all the crying about gear gating. I mean it was easy as hell to get radiance armor in MoM. You get to 60, get a group and run a dungeon for 45 mins and a token drops. Some need others dont and pass. Take the token and get the corresponding armor to the token. 6 different dungeons, 6 tokens and 6 pieces of armor. I just didnt get it. WIth a 2 -3 hour span you could run a dungeon 3-4 times and for sure get your piece. Over a couple of weeks (at MOST) you have your armor and are ready to kill the Watcher or w/e raid you chose. It wasnt hard.

 

What you fail to realize is that not everyone can have that play schedule.  The game didn't start out this way, and that's what makes many so unhappy about it.

Secondly, it wasn't nearly as easy as you make it sound.  Only one token drops per run, so if you have 6 people in your group that need it, that's roughly 6 hours for everyone to get theirs.  Again, many people do not have 6 hours night after night to do this.  Add to that people dropping after they get their token so the group has to be remade etc.  It can be a huge pain in the ass.

 

 

I mean WoW has a emblem system that you can spend to get your gear but this is a considerable amount of tokens and can take some time. Also they add tokens(or emblems) after the patch has been out for a while. Originally you gotta do raids to hope to get good gear and win the roll. Then you get geared from the 10-man and run the 25-man. Sure its simple to get the gear but it can take a while for a casual player.

 

Don't play WoW anymore.

 

I dont like easy mode but due to the overall relaxed nature of LotRO, I prefer the LotRO system because of it simplicity that allows people to not be gear score crazy or all about effeciency so that they can quickly get all of thier tokens or w/e.

 

I will agree that fixes have been made to make it less of an issue.  Again they are going back to the initial design of being able to reach your final goal utilizing multiple paths.  Something that was sorely lacking for a long time after MoM.

While it can take 1 hour for a dungeon, and there are 6 people in a group, normally they dont take that long and some of the people already have the toekn but are running for something else, like a earring or something. Typically 3-4 people would be seaching for the token and with good groups(normally all groups were good) we would run it a few time back to back. After a  45x4 mins, thats only 3:00hours. With a casual (10 hours a week)  play schedule, you can get your tokens rather fast. I think there should be some kind of gating to get gear and I think that LOTRO has it pretty good. I mean gearing up for 3 weeks as a casual player (hell even 4 weeks) is not a long time. Plus, the dungeons are enjoyable thier 15th run. Cant say that for many games.

EDIT: Im a lifer

Originally posted by Swoogie

While it can take 1 hour for a dungeon, and there are 6 people in a group, normally they dont take that long and some of the people already have the toekn but are running for something else, like a earring or something. Typically 3-4 people would be seaching for the token and with good groups(normally all groups were good) we would run it a few time back to back. After a  45x4 mins, thats only 3:00hours. With a casual (10 hours a week)  play schedule, you can get your tokens rather fast. I think there should be some kind of gating to get gear and I think that LOTRO has it pretty good. I mean gearing up for 3 weeks as a casual player (hell even 4 weeks) is not a long time. Plus, the dungeons are enjoyable thier 15th run. Cant say that for many games.

 

EDIT: Im a lifer

Your story is a faerie tale. It never worked that easily. Sure with other fixed 5 people you knew they had 4-5 hours to waste running the same dungeon 6 times. But if you didn't you were screwed. Pugs in Lotro are quite disastrous.
 

People with alts, were again screwed with gating. I don't know anyone who had more than one capped character that farmed the radiance. They either stopped caring about raiding or left the game completely - I chosed the second option.

Please, if you are defending radiance here, give me an actual reason to have gating (other than making it easier for developers to artificially prolong the existing content). Just one positive side of it. Keep in mind before you spew out that raiders asked for more content, that gating alone is not additional content, it's a linear barrier. You've got to give us something else.

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Swoogie

While it can take 1 hour for a dungeon, and there are 6 people in a group, normally they dont take that long and some of the people already have the toekn but are running for something else, like a earring or something. Typically 3-4 people would be seaching for the token and with good groups(normally all groups were good) we would run it a few time back to back. After a  45x4 mins, thats only 3:00hours. With a casual (10 hours a week)  play schedule, you can get your tokens rather fast. I think there should be some kind of gating to get gear and I think that LOTRO has it pretty good. I mean gearing up for 3 weeks as a casual player (hell even 4 weeks) is not a long time. Plus, the dungeons are enjoyable thier 15th run. Cant say that for many games.

 

EDIT: Im a lifer

Your story is a faerie tale. It never worked that easily. Sure with other fixed 5 people you knew they had 4-5 hours to waste running the same dungeon 6 times. But if you didn't you were screwed. Pugs in Lotro are quite disastrous.
 

People with alts, were again screwed with gating. I don't know anyone who had more than one capped character that farmed the radiance. They either stopped caring about raiding or left the game completely - I chosed the second option.

Please, if you are defending radiance here, name me an actual reason to implement gating. Just one positive side of it. Keep in mind before you spew out that raiders asked for more content, that gating alone is not additional content, it's a linear barrier. You've got to give us something else.

I play/played on Arkenstone. I never had a problem with PUGs, ever. Plus the community is so great, you can make tons of friends easily and grab a couple and then some random people and head to a dungeon.

In defense of gear gating with radiance armor:

                  Raiding should require more from a player then hitting cap and raiding. Now I understand that it isnt additonal content, it just forces to you go through the same content more(to get gear). To raid someone should have to do something special for RP reasons imo. If joe blow could kill the Watcher, then why was it so hard for the fellowship to fight it off and then flee? Logically if only makes sense for someone to prove themselves(i.e. killing the bosses around town) in order to be able to do raids.

Now this limit shouldnt be extreme. Honestly, I prefer progression gating instead of Gear gating. As I kill these bossed around town, I progress to the final raid boss. That makes more sense and I favor it over gear gating. However, the gear gating in Lotro is not that bad and people should count thier blessings. Lotro is a pretty good game. Its need work still (housing, LI, kinships) but its not bad.

So if you prefer progression (like how EQ had flags) then I agree. However if you just want to be able to hit cap and waltz right into a raid and slaughter the boss, you want EZ mode way to much.

Originally posted by Swoogie

Originally posted by Thillian

Your story is a faerie tale. It never worked that easily. Sure with other fixed 5 people you knew they had 4-5 hours to waste running the same dungeon 6 times. But if you didn't you were screwed. Pugs in Lotro are quite disastrous.
 

People with alts, were again screwed with gating. I don't know anyone who had more than one capped character that farmed the radiance. They either stopped caring about raiding or left the game completely - I chosed the second option.

Please, if you are defending radiance here, name me an actual reason to implement gating. Just one positive side of it. Keep in mind before you spew out that raiders asked for more content, that gating alone is not additional content, it's a linear barrier. You've got to give us something else.

 

IIn defense of gear gating with radiance armor:

                  Raiding should require more from a player then hitting cap and raiding. Now I understand that it isnt additonal content, it just forces to you go through the same content more(to get gear). To raid someone should have to do something special for RP reasons imo. If joe blow could kill the Watcher, then why was it so hard for the fellowship to fight it off and then flee? Logically if only makes sense for someone to prove themselves(i.e. killing the bosses around town) in order to be able to do raids.

Then logically, it should be a deed - to kill each boss once and that's it.

To make it clear, you say it's logical to kill each boss 6 times -because he only drops one token for the whole group - and the greedy dwarves at 21st hall that has infinite supply of radiance gear will only hand it to you in exchange for the token - that you first have to win in a game of dices when all group-members sit around the dead body of the boss. But no worries, the boss will somehow ressurect (or take a few pills of anti-depressant - as Lotro has no health but it has only morale) and take another token from his hidden stash awaiting another group of adventures.

You chosed some part of the logic, pull it off and ignore the rest of it to help your cause.

How would anyone be pissed off if they removed gating at this point? Noone ever asked for gating, people asked for content, not gating. Steefel made it all up, threw a few words like cool and awesome when he introduced it, and ignored all the havoc it caused on the official forums since the release of Moria with words: "Radiance is gonna stay in Lotro one way or another"

I didnt say it was logical to  kill a boss 6 times, I said it was logical that someone should have to  prove themselves before raiding. Then i went on to say that progression would be better and would make for sense but gear gating in lotro is minimal and not that bad. Look, in order for a MMORPG to work many things that make sense cant be. If I kill a boss, he shouldnt be there for me to kill again and thus running a dungeon to kill him for a token 6 times doesnt make sense. Thats why I like progression. Also, im not saying once s bos is dead the instance shouldnt be run, it should be run at the players descretion after they have gotten thier progression completed there becuase they might want some weapon/earring/etc that drops on a particular mob.  

In short, (progession > gear gating). but (Lotro gear gating > most other MMO's)

Originally posted by Swoogie

I didnt say it was logical to  kill a boss 6 times, I said it was logical that someone should have to  prove themselves before raiding. Then i went on to say that progression would be better and would make for sense but gear gating in lotro is minimal and not that bad. Look, in order for a MMORPG to work many things that make sense cant be. If I kill a boss, he shouldnt be there for me to kill again and thus running a dungeon to kill him for a token 6 times doesnt make sense. Thats why I like progression. Also, im not saying once s bos is dead the instance shouldnt be run, it should be run at the players descretion after they have gotten thier progression completed there becuase they might want some weapon/earring/etc that drops on a particular mob.  

In short, (progession > gear gating). but (Lotro gear gating > most other MMO's)

That's why I said, you pulled out one logical part that help to defend your point, and ignored the rest of the chain.

You say, that from certain point of view it's logical to kill the same boss 6 times to get a token, then kill another boss 6 times, then another one, etc until you have 5 or 6 tokens in order to even participate in raiding, because you already proved you are mighty. The fact you're killing the same boss 6 times you ignored - from your point of view there's obviously no reason to be logical in that step

I ask you again, why you chosed the only small fragment of the whole logical chain - and trivialized the rest into some abstract necessity?

And sure we can talk about other MMORPG. Please name me one MMORPG that forces you to killl 6 bosses each 6 times before you can even participate in 12-man raid. I know none, and I played almost every one out there.

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Swoogie

I didnt say it was logical to  kill a boss 6 times, I said it was logical that someone should have to  prove themselves before raiding. Then i went on to say that progression would be better and would make for sense but gear gating in lotro is minimal and not that bad. Look, in order for a MMORPG to work many things that make sense cant be. If I kill a boss, he shouldnt be there for me to kill again and thus running a dungeon to kill him for a token 6 times doesnt make sense. Thats why I like progression. Also, im not saying once s bos is dead the instance shouldnt be run, it should be run at the players descretion after they have gotten thier progression completed there becuase they might want some weapon/earring/etc that drops on a particular mob.  

In short, (progession > gear gating). but (Lotro gear gating > most other MMO's)

That's why I said, you pulled out one logical part that help to defend your point, and ignored the rest of the chain.

You say, that from certain point of view it's logical to kill the same boss 6 times to get a token, then kill another boss 6 times, then another one, etc until you have 5 or 6 tokens in order to even participate in raiding, because you already proved you are mighty. The fact you're killing the same boss 6 times you ignored - from your point of view there's obviously no reason to be logical in that step

I ask you again, why you chosed the only small fragment of the whole logical chain - and trivialized the rest into some abstract necessity?

And sure we can talk about other MMORPG. Please name me one MMORPG that forces you to killl 6 bosses each 6 times before you can even participate in 12-man raid. I know none, and I played almost every one out there.

There has to be  some form of gating before a raid because, as I said before, for RP reasons. It doesnt matter if you run around talking/playing in RP style. Since it is a MMORPG, you automatically are forced into doing some RP things.

Think of it this way. Joe Blow is a great swordsman in the army and has fought in many battles but does that mean he can kill the Watcher? NO. It takes a hero that has proven excellence and skill. IMO thats what progression is all about. Progress to the big boss. Now I guess it could be argued that a player has run dungeons all the way up to the cap and killed off big bosses in dungeons. However, those are "weaker bosses" and arent at the level of a high end boss. Its like saying I killed the local mass murder who was great at combat, now I can kill the Dragon. It doesnt work that way.

While other games might not have the same set up for gear gating, you still have to run multiple dungeons. In WoW, you get like 2 emblems per random dungeon run and each piece of gear is atleast 45 emblems. It takes a lot. Im sure there are other ways to get emblems from lvl 80 dungeons(you start getting emblems at lvl 70) but it still taktes a while. Furthermore, you had to do a series of dungeons/raids and quest to continually progress to the final endgame boss. It took forever, much longer then Lotro takes.

Originally posted by Swoogie

 

In defense of gear gating with radiance armor:

                  Raiding should require more from a player then hitting cap and raiding. Now I understand that it isnt additonal content, it just forces to you go through the same content more(to get gear). To raid someone should have to do something special for RP reasons imo. If joe blow could kill the Watcher, then why was it so hard for the fellowship to fight it off and then flee? Logically if only makes sense for someone to prove themselves(i.e. killing the bosses around town) in order to be able to do raids.

Now this limit shouldnt be extreme. Honestly, I prefer progression gating instead of Gear gating. As I kill these bossed around town, I progress to the final raid boss. That makes more sense and I favor it over gear gating. However, the gear gating in Lotro is not that bad and people should count thier blessings. Lotro is a pretty good game. Its need work still (housing, LI, kinships) but its not bad.

So if you prefer progression (like how EQ had flags) then I agree. However if you just want to be able to hit cap and waltz right into a raid and slaughter the boss, you want EZ mode way to much.

I'm not sure if I buy that.

To me the raid itself, though a story reason would be nice, the raid should be a challenge in and of itself.

As far as the fellowship having difficulty, I think what we see here is the differnece between "reality" and "game reality".

Meaning, for story purposes most characters will run into an encounter for whatever reason. However, if the world was real, they would either need to destroy the foe in order to go on with the mission or need to run.

If fantasy worlds were indeed real I think most would choose to run as most would not desire and encounter with a monster. But in games, most players desire such encounters. That is why they play.

So, in the book the real issue was that they just wanted to get away in order to keep themselves from getting hurt. Could they have taken down the watcher? Possibly but it really wasn't necessary.

In the game it is a desired thing so of course the players need to be able to take it down. However, I feel that the encounter needs to just be difficult in and of itself or be at the pont of some quest chain. I don't really feel that any type of gating is needed because that is just jumping through hoops.

It's not necessarily easy to kill the watcher. At least when I tried it. So "waltzing" in is not really an issue.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Swoogie

 

In defense of gear gating with radiance armor:

                  Raiding should require more from a player then hitting cap and raiding. Now I understand that it isnt additonal content, it just forces to you go through the same content more(to get gear). To raid someone should have to do something special for RP reasons imo. If joe blow could kill the Watcher, then why was it so hard for the fellowship to fight it off and then flee? Logically if only makes sense for someone to prove themselves(i.e. killing the bosses around town) in order to be able to do raids.

Now this limit shouldnt be extreme. Honestly, I prefer progression gating instead of Gear gating. As I kill these bossed around town, I progress to the final raid boss. That makes more sense and I favor it over gear gating. However, the gear gating in Lotro is not that bad and people should count thier blessings. Lotro is a pretty good game. Its need work still (housing, LI, kinships) but its not bad.

So if you prefer progression (like how EQ had flags) then I agree. However if you just want to be able to hit cap and waltz right into a raid and slaughter the boss, you want EZ mode way to much.

 

I'm not sure if I buy that.

To me the raid itself, though a story reason would be nice, the raid should be a challenge in and of itself.

As far as the fellowship having difficulty, I think what we see here is the differnece between "reality" and "game reality".

Meaning, for story purposes most characters will run into an encounter for whatever reason. However, if the world was real, they would either need to destroy the foe in order to go on with the mission or need to run.

If fantasy worlds were indeed real I think most would choose to run as most would not desire and encounter with a monster. But in games, most players desire such encounters. That is why they play.

So, in the book the real issue was that they just wanted to get away in order to keep themselves from getting hurt. Could they have taken down the watcher? Possibly but it really wasn't necessary.

In the game it is a desired thing so of course the players need to be able to take it down. However, I feel that the encounter needs to just be difficult in and of itself or be at the pont of some quest chain. I don't really feel that any type of gating is needed because that is just jumping through hoops.

It's not necessarily easy to kill the watcher. At least when I tried it. So "waltzing" in is not really an issue.

 

The quest chain idea introduces progression instead of gear gating. I also stated at some point that MMO's cant work perfectly with reality and thats why certain things are the way they are. I also agree with you on the survivability and why not to fight the Watcher. I hadnt thought of that and it probably makes more sense that way. But aside from all of that the quest chains still have some gating through progression. I prefer progression over gear gating anyways. If a game stays gear-centric for too long, it becomes all about Gear score as it is in WoW. Most people wont take you for a raid if you dont have a certain gear score. Its lame, i know.

Once again,

                           (Progression > gear gating), but gating is better then NO gating at all.

Plus what about working up to something and then accomplishing it? Would there really be that much joy if I just hit 60, hoped into a Pick up raid and tried at it for hours until we finally completed it? It wouldnt really matter for me. I would just be happy at the first age weapon and that would be all.

Originally posted by Swoogie

 

The quest chain idea introduces progression instead of gear gating. I also stated at some point that MMO's cant work perfectly with reality and thats why certain things are the way they are. I also agree with you on the survivability and why not to fight the Watcher. I hadnt thought of that and it probably makes more sense that way. But aside from all of that the quest chains still have some gating through progression. I prefer progression over gear gating anyways. If a game stays gear-centric for too long, it becomes all about Gear score as it is in WoW. Most people wont take you for a raid if you dont have a certain gear score. Its lame, i know.

Once again,

                           (Progression > gear gating), but gating is better then NO gating at all.

Plus what about working up to something and then accomplishing it? Would there really be that much joy if I just hit 60, hoped into a Pick up raid and tried at it for hours until we finally completed it? It wouldnt really matter for me. I would just be happy at the first age weapon and that would be all.

I think I was responding more to this statement:

If joe blow could kill the Watcher, then why was it so hard for the fellowship to fight it off and then flee?

I do agree there should be a quest chain but I just don't like the idea of radiance items. I also don't like the legendary item system.

Radiance should be a trait (which might have been touched upon earlier in this thread but I haven't read the whole thread so excuse me if it has been argued to death)  and Legendary items should be one item that is nurtured through the life of the item.

So as long as there are a set of quests that lead up to the encounter then I'm down with that.

I guess I just like things to feel organic. I don't like game mechanics that feel like game systems. I don't even like the whole token thing.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Swoogie

 

The quest chain idea introduces progression instead of gear gating. I also stated at some point that MMO's cant work perfectly with reality and thats why certain things are the way they are. I also agree with you on the survivability and why not to fight the Watcher. I hadnt thought of that and it probably makes more sense that way. But aside from all of that the quest chains still have some gating through progression. I prefer progression over gear gating anyways. If a game stays gear-centric for too long, it becomes all about Gear score as it is in WoW. Most people wont take you for a raid if you dont have a certain gear score. Its lame, i know.

Once again,

                           (Progression > gear gating), but gating is better then NO gating at all.

Plus what about working up to something and then accomplishing it? Would there really be that much joy if I just hit 60, hoped into a Pick up raid and tried at it for hours until we finally completed it? It wouldnt really matter for me. I would just be happy at the first age weapon and that would be all.

 

I think I was responding more to this statement:

If joe blow could kill the Watcher, then why was it so hard for the fellowship to fight it off and then flee?

I do agree there should be a quest chain but I just don't like the idea of radiance items. I also don't like the legendary item system.

Radiance should be a trait (which might have been touched upon earlier in this thread but I haven't read the whole thread so excuse me if it has been argued to death)  and Legendary items should be one item that is nurtured through the life of the item.

So as long as there are a set of quests that lead up to the encounter then I'm down with that.

I guess I just like things to feel organic. I don't like game mechanics that feel like game systems. I don't even like the whole token thing.

 

A nice size quest chain that ends in the slaying of the Watcher(or any raid boss) would be nice. This quest chain could involve killing bosses (only once) from different dungeons and other stuff. Radiance should be a trait from deed imo. It makes sense that more evil places can cast a shadow over people who are not heroic. Thus the need for radiance.  However, I shouldnt be that you need a lot of it. If i go to Mordor(i know it not there yet) and there is gloom, it should be like 5. its enought to make a difference but not render me "stunned". However, with time from killing mobs or whatever the deed asks for, I could get +5 Radience and never have to worry about it.

As for LI's I like em in theory but they havent been applied correctly IMO and they need a lot  of work. However, I prefer a Lotro with current LI's rather then a Lotro without them. Just preference, thats all

Originally posted by Swoogie

 

As for LI's I like em in theory but they havent been applied correctly IMO and they need a lot  of work. However, I prefer a Lotro with current LI's rather then a Lotro without them. Just preference, thats all

My problem with Lengendary Items is that

A, I love the idea of them, and

B, they completely make most other weapons in game obsolete.

In Mirkwood I got a very neat looking sword as a reward. So I did some testing between that and my Legendary Items and it seems that the Legendary items win out.

Not only that but they also make crafted items obsolete. I have two very neat crafted swords, both that I don't use because they just rean't as good as the legendary items.

So there are two systems that are at odds. Everyone seemingly wants to wield their very own Glamdring or Narsil but once we have them then why go for something of lesser quality.

And the thing is, I don't know the work around. Been wracking my brain for quite some time.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Swoogie

 

As for LI's I like em in theory but they havent been applied correctly IMO and they need a lot  of work. However, I prefer a Lotro with current LI's rather then a Lotro without them. Just preference, thats all

 

My problem with Lengendary Items is that

A, I love the idea of them, and

B, they completely make most other weapons in game obsolete.

 

In Mirkwood I got a very neat looking sword as a reward. So I did some testing between that and my Legendary Items and it seems that the Legendary items win out.

Not only that but they also make crafted items obsolete. I have two very neat crafted swords, both that I don't use because they just rean't as good as the legendary items.

So there are two systems that are at odds. Everyone seemingly wants to wield their very own Glamdring or Narsil but once we have them then why go for something of lesser quality.

And the thing is, I don't know the work around. Been wracking my brain for quite some time.

Along with those thoughts, there isnt much legendary factor to them. They look like crap, they get destroyed constantly, and most of em suck(resulting in #2).

LI's should be rare drops and are meaningful. Like only 1st and 2nd age. Then make it so you can deconstruct certain weaker weapons and get relics to infuse into your LI. Something like this would work out better. Make the LI's only drop on dungeon bosses 7% of the time but have a 1st age drop with every raid run.That would help make them Legendary yet keep some use for other weapons.

Originally posted by Swoogie

 

Along with those thoughts, there isnt much legendary factor to them. They look like crap, they get destroyed constantly, and most of em suck(resulting in #2).

Amen brother.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Swoogie

 

Along with those thoughts, there isnt much legendary factor to them. They look like crap, they get destroyed constantly, and most of em suck(resulting in #2).

 

Amen brother.

I mean why cant they atleast make them look cool?

EDIT: there was a typo

Originally posted by Swoogie

Originally posted by Thillian

That's why I said, you pulled out one logical part that help to defend your point, and ignored the rest of the chain.

You say, that from certain point of view it's logical to kill the same boss 6 times to get a token, then kill another boss 6 times, then another one, etc until you have 5 or 6 tokens in order to even participate in raiding, because you already proved you are mighty. The fact you're killing the same boss 6 times you ignored - from your point of view there's obviously no reason to be logical in that step

I ask you again, why you chosed the only small fragment of the whole logical chain - and trivialized the rest into some abstract necessity?

And sure we can talk about other MMORPG. Please name me one MMORPG that forces you to killl 6 bosses each 6 times before you can even participate in 12-man raid. I know none, and I played almost every one out there.

 While other games might not have the same set up for gear gating, you still have to run multiple dungeons. In WoW, you get like 2 emblems per random dungeon run and each piece of gear is atleast 45 emblems. It takes a lot. Im sure there are other ways to get emblems from lvl 80 dungeons(you start getting emblems at lvl 70) but it still taktes a while. Furthermore, you had to do a series of dungeons/raids and quest to continually progress to the final endgame boss. It took forever, much longer then Lotro takes.

WoW is not the best example but sure we can use it as well. As far as I know, when you hit cap in WoW, you can join a raid with whatever gear you have. There is no system in place that would kill you when you enter a raid with not enough radiance gear like there is in Lotro. Am I right? - please correct me if not.

There might be a quest chain leading to opening a raid (I guess) - but that's fine, as I said, a deed in Lotro or a quest chain including killing each of the dungeon boss once, would be fine.

There is so much wrong going on in Lotro right now including legendaries, skirmishes, very little new content despite the fact they released 2 paid expansions, that the gating system now really looks unimportant. I'm glad I left the sinking ship, a game with more than half of its subscriber base being lifetimers can't go on for too long.

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Swoogie

Originally posted by Thillian

That's why I said, you pulled out one logical part that help to defend your point, and ignored the rest of the chain.

You say, that from certain point of view it's logical to kill the same boss 6 times to get a token, then kill another boss 6 times, then another one, etc until you have 5 or 6 tokens in order to even participate in raiding, because you already proved you are mighty. The fact you're killing the same boss 6 times you ignored - from your point of view there's obviously no reason to be logical in that step

I ask you again, why you chosed the only small fragment of the whole logical chain - and trivialized the rest into some abstract necessity?

And sure we can talk about other MMORPG. Please name me one MMORPG that forces you to killl 6 bosses each 6 times before you can even participate in 12-man raid. I know none, and I played almost every one out there.

 While other games might not have the same set up for gear gating, you still have to run multiple dungeons. In WoW, you get like 2 emblems per random dungeon run and each piece of gear is atleast 45 emblems. It takes a lot. Im sure there are other ways to get emblems from lvl 80 dungeons(you start getting emblems at lvl 70) but it still taktes a while. Furthermore, you had to do a series of dungeons/raids and quest to continually progress to the final endgame boss. It took forever, much longer then Lotro takes.

 

WoW is not the best example but sure we can use it as well. As far as I know, when you hit cap in WoW, you can join a raid with whatever gear you have. There is no system in place that would kill you when you enter a raid with not enough radiance gear like there is in Lotro. Am I right? - please correct me if not.

There might be a quest chain leading to opening a raid (I guess) - but that's fine, as I said, a deed in Lotro or a quest chain including killing each of the dungeon boss once, would be fine.

There is so much wrong going on in Lotro right now including legendaries, skirmishes, very little new content despite the fact they released 2 paid expansions, that the gating system now really looks unimportant. I'm glad I left the sinking ship, a game with more than half of its subscriber base being lifetimers can't go on for too long.

The same can be said of eq2 you dont have to kill the boss over and over again unless you want to.  Sure they have t1-t4 sets My main and alts run around in T2 sets I actually kow a few folks who have the t3.  However those are not required to do the raid zone,  they are recomended because of the mitigation/dammage factor but not required unless you get a leet raid leader.  My entire thought on the gating was a bad idea, I know folks are going to say the stuff is easy to get but Im not playing that game any more.  LOTRO failed when they ran out of real content and forced you to do repeatable content instead. It became more of a job than a fun game to play.   So even with me and the wife having lifetime subs thats 2 subs that are not logging in now days.

Originally posted by Thillian

WoW is not the best example but sure we can use it as well. As far as I know, when you hit cap in WoW, you can join a raid with whatever gear you have. There is no system in place that would kill you when you enter a raid with not enough radiance gear like there is in Lotro. Am I right? - please correct me if not.

There might be a quest chain leading to opening a raid (I guess) - but that's fine, as I said, a deed in Lotro or a quest chain including killing each of the dungeon boss once, would be fine.

There is so much wrong going on in Lotro right now including legendaries, skirmishes, very little new content despite the fact they released 2 paid expansions, that the gating system now really looks unimportant. I'm glad I left the sinking ship, a game with more than half of its subscriber base being lifetimers can't go on for too long.

With Wow, there are certain bosses you have to kill (progression) before you can do a raid. For example in Icecrown Citadel(ICC) there are loads of bosses but I believe only certain ones need to be killed (Sindragosa, Prof Putricide, and Festergut??) and each of those are Raid bosses. 10 man must be complete before you can do 25 man. So 10-man killing of those 3 raid bosses = access to 10-man Lich King, killing 10-man Lich-King allows for 25-man Lich king. I think this is how it works. Anyways in order to do those first raids, you need to have relatively high quality gear or you will wipe very easily. So it required many runs of the lower dungeons to get the armor. This is much more gating then 6 tokens and 5 runs to get each one = 30 runs then you raid the Watcher or w.e

Originally posted by Swoogie

Originally posted by Thillian

WoW is not the best example but sure we can use it as well. As far as I know, when you hit cap in WoW, you can join a raid with whatever gear you have. There is no system in place that would kill you when you enter a raid with not enough radiance gear like there is in Lotro. Am I right? - please correct me if not.

There might be a quest chain leading to opening a raid (I guess) - but that's fine, as I said, a deed in Lotro or a quest chain including killing each of the dungeon boss once, would be fine.

There is so much wrong going on in Lotro right now including legendaries, skirmishes, very little new content despite the fact they released 2 paid expansions, that the gating system now really looks unimportant. I'm glad I left the sinking ship, a game with more than half of its subscriber base being lifetimers can't go on for too long.

 

With Wow, there are certain bosses you have to kill (progression) before you can do a raid. For example in Icecrown Citadel(ICC) there are loads of bosses but I believe only certain ones need to be killed (Sindragosa, Prof Putricide, and Festergut??) and each of those are Raid bosses. 10 man must be complete before you can do 25 man. So 10-man killing of those 3 raid bosses = access to 10-man Lich King, killing 10-man Lich-King allows for 25-man Lich king. I think this is how it works. Anyways in order to do those first raids, you need to have relatively high quality gear or you will wipe very easily. So it required many runs of the lower dungeons to get the armor. This is much more gating then 6 tokens and 5 runs to get each one = 30 runs then you raid the Watcher or w.e

This is not a question of whether your gear is good enough or not. And from your description, it sounds again what I already mentioned twice - a deed that would give you a credit for each dungeon boss kill - once, would be fine. In Lotro it doesn't work that way.

Lotro has radiance items, each class has one and a half radiance set and it must wear no matter what in order to raid.

I guess in WoW, EQ2, VG, any game out there, indeed it's recommended to have a good gear to enter raids because you need it for mitigation, dps, ... but it's not entirely a requirement to even participate. Can you not see the difference.

In SoA you had Rift, Helegrod both were more difficult than dungeons obviously, and you had to wear a good gear, but you could get that gear from crafting / etten / dungeons / random tier 1 drops, now it came down to just dungeons and to just one set (one set and half since SoM).

They had it right in SoA. Keep in mind, noone ever asked Turbine during SoA times to add gating, raiders asked for more content and more challenging raid content. Gating is not challenging content, because gating is not content.

Gating is a barrier, an artificially imposed limit on where you can go and what you can do.

I think this thread has derailed just a bit....

To get back on track....

I'm enjoying the new update.  There were a few Chapters I had to skip in the first volume, but I was able to go back and do them on my own and I really enjoyed them.  It inspired me to make a new toon to just to go thru the volume again....

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Swoogie

Originally posted by Thillian

WoW is not the best example but sure we can use it as well. As far as I know, when you hit cap in WoW, you can join a raid with whatever gear you have. There is no system in place that would kill you when you enter a raid with not enough radiance gear like there is in Lotro. Am I right? - please correct me if not.

There might be a quest chain leading to opening a raid (I guess) - but that's fine, as I said, a deed in Lotro or a quest chain including killing each of the dungeon boss once, would be fine.

There is so much wrong going on in Lotro right now including legendaries, skirmishes, very little new content despite the fact they released 2 paid expansions, that the gating system now really looks unimportant. I'm glad I left the sinking ship, a game with more than half of its subscriber base being lifetimers can't go on for too long.

 

With Wow, there are certain bosses you have to kill (progression) before you can do a raid. For example in Icecrown Citadel(ICC) there are loads of bosses but I believe only certain ones need to be killed (Sindragosa, Prof Putricide, and Festergut??) and each of those are Raid bosses. 10 man must be complete before you can do 25 man. So 10-man killing of those 3 raid bosses = access to 10-man Lich King, killing 10-man Lich-King allows for 25-man Lich king. I think this is how it works. Anyways in order to do those first raids, you need to have relatively high quality gear or you will wipe very easily. So it required many runs of the lower dungeons to get the armor. This is much more gating then 6 tokens and 5 runs to get each one = 30 runs then you raid the Watcher or w.e

 

This is not a question of whether your gear is good enough or not. And from your description, it sounds again what I already mentioned twice - a deed that would give you a credit for each dungeon boss kill - once, would be fine. In Lotro it doesn't work that way.

Lotro has radiance items, each class has one and a half radiance set and it must wear no matter what in order to raid.

I guess in WoW, EQ2, VG, any game out there, indeed it's recommended to have a good gear to enter raids because you need it for mitigation, dps, ... but it's not entirely a requirement to even participate. Can you not see the difference.

In SoA you had Rift, Helegrod both were more difficult than dungeons obviously, and you had to wear a good gear, but you could get that gear from crafting / etten / dungeons / random tier 1 drops, now it came down to just dungeons and to just one set (one set and half since SoM).

They had it right in SoA. Keep in mind, noone ever asked Turbine during SoA times to add gating, raiders asked for more content and more challenging raid content. Gating is not challenging content, because gating is not content.

Gating is a barrier, an artificially imposed limit on where you can go and what you can do.

You do have a point there that I never realized. Even though It takes loads of stuff to get to a final boss in other MMO's you can still raid lower ones, and there isnt TOO much repeating of content required.
 

Also your right, I didnt want gear gating, and niether did others. I remember running Carn Dum and killing a Watcher like mob for a hunter drop. It was supposed to be encounter for 59-60lvl players but we chose to do it with 54-60's. It was hard and took many runs. I guess you could compare this to being undergeared for a raid. It might take a while but it CAN be done and therefore gating just makes you take longer to do something without adding real content.

Though I defended gear gating as not too bad, it isnt necassary and Turbine should remove it. I havent played SoM due to random reasons that have nothing to do with how I feel about LotRO but I wonder how the gear gating works in it.  I just thought of all of the dungeons(6) as a lot of content that I enjoyed running multiple times so it never bothered me. I see how it bothers others.

I just hope for Rohan they use a intricate(yet simple) progession of dungeons to work up to the endgame raid boss and no radiance gating.

so... you win?

Originally posted by junzo316

I think this thread has derailed just a bit....

 

To get back on track....

 

I'm enjoying the new update.  There were a few Chapters I had to skip in the first volume, but I was able to go back and do them on my own and I really enjoyed them.  It inspired me to make a new toon to just to go thru the volume again....

off track? psh atleast we are talking about the correct game

lol

Originally posted by Swoogie

Originally posted by Thillian

This is not a question of whether your gear is good enough or not. And from your description, it sounds again what I already mentioned twice - a deed that would give you a credit for each dungeon boss kill - once, would be fine. In Lotro it doesn't work that way.

Lotro has radiance items, each class has one and a half radiance set and it must wear no matter what in order to raid.

I guess in WoW, EQ2, VG, any game out there, indeed it's recommended to have a good gear to enter raids because you need it for mitigation, dps, ... but it's not entirely a requirement to even participate. Can you not see the difference.

In SoA you had Rift, Helegrod both were more difficult than dungeons obviously, and you had to wear a good gear, but you could get that gear from crafting / etten / dungeons / random tier 1 drops, now it came down to just dungeons and to just one set (one set and half since SoM).

They had it right in SoA. Keep in mind, noone ever asked Turbine during SoA times to add gating, raiders asked for more content and more challenging raid content. Gating is not challenging content, because gating is not content.

Gating is a barrier, an artificially imposed limit on where you can go and what you can do.

You do have a point there that I never realized. Even though It takes loads of stuff to get to a final boss in other MMO's you can still raid lower ones, and there isnt TOO much repeating of content required.
 

Also your right, I didnt want gear gating, and niether did others. I remember running Carn Dum and killing a Watcher like mob for a hunter drop. It was supposed to be encounter for 59-60lvl players but we chose to do it with 54-60's. It was hard and took many runs. I guess you could compare this to being undergeared for a raid. It might take a while but it CAN be done and therefore gating just makes you take longer to do something without adding real content.

Though I defended gear gating as not too bad, it isnt necassary and Turbine should remove it. I havent played SoM due to random reasons that have nothing to do with how I feel about LotRO but I wonder how the gear gating works in it.  I just thought of all of the dungeons(6) as a lot of content that I enjoyed running multiple times so it never bothered me. I see how it bothers others.

I just hope for Rohan they use a intricate(yet simple) progession of dungeons to work up to the endgame raid boss and no radiance gating.

so... you win?

Thanks for not being stubborn which is actually quite rare these days and people tend to defend things that are literally undefendable - like gating. There was a havoc on official forums because of gating for over a year now, for a reason -> Steefel ignored it all, and then said Radiance is gonna stay in Lotro no matter what. If anyone, then Steefel is the real devil in this industry.

His fame quote about rune-keepers. "We know Rune-keepers doesn't fit into Middle Earth, but come on, this is fantasy, there has to be mages"

And if someone believes that Tolkien Enterprises actually cares about the lore-breaking things for Middle Earth, here's a quote from their licensing director Laurie Battle from 1998 when Tolkien Ent. took away the license for Middle Earth from ICE:

"To be honest, our eye is focused more on royalty income rather than on the finer details of the games themselves."

http://www.rpg.net/columns/briefhistory/briefhistory9.phtml

The last years 1994-2001 - 16th paragraph.

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by Swoogie

Originally posted by Thillian

This is not a question of whether your gear is good enough or not. And from your description, it sounds again what I already mentioned twice - a deed that would give you a credit for each dungeon boss kill - once, would be fine. In Lotro it doesn't work that way.

Lotro has radiance items, each class has one and a half radiance set and it must wear no matter what in order to raid.

I guess in WoW, EQ2, VG, any game out there, indeed it's recommended to have a good gear to enter raids because you need it for mitigation, dps, ... but it's not entirely a requirement to even participate. Can you not see the difference.

In SoA you had Rift, Helegrod both were more difficult than dungeons obviously, and you had to wear a good gear, but you could get that gear from crafting / etten / dungeons / random tier 1 drops, now it came down to just dungeons and to just one set (one set and half since SoM).

They had it right in SoA. Keep in mind, noone ever asked Turbine during SoA times to add gating, raiders asked for more content and more challenging raid content. Gating is not challenging content, because gating is not content.

Gating is a barrier, an artificially imposed limit on where you can go and what you can do.

You do have a point there that I never realized. Even though It takes loads of stuff to get to a final boss in other MMO's you can still raid lower ones, and there isnt TOO much repeating of content required.
 

Also your right, I didnt want gear gating, and niether did others. I remember running Carn Dum and killing a Watcher like mob for a hunter drop. It was supposed to be encounter for 59-60lvl players but we chose to do it with 54-60's. It was hard and took many runs. I guess you could compare this to being undergeared for a raid. It might take a while but it CAN be done and therefore gating just makes you take longer to do something without adding real content.

Though I defended gear gating as not too bad, it isnt necassary and Turbine should remove it. I havent played SoM due to random reasons that have nothing to do with how I feel about LotRO but I wonder how the gear gating works in it.  I just thought of all of the dungeons(6) as a lot of content that I enjoyed running multiple times so it never bothered me. I see how it bothers others.

I just hope for Rohan they use a intricate(yet simple) progession of dungeons to work up to the endgame raid boss and no radiance gating.

so... you win?

 

Thanks for not being stubborn which is actually quite rare these days and people tend to defend things that are literally undefendable - like gating. There was a havoc on official forums because of gating for over a year now, for a reason -> Steefel ignored it all, and then said Radiance is gonna stay in Lotro no matter what. If anyone, then Steefel is the real devil in this industry.

His fame quote about rune-keepers. "We know Rune-keepers doesn't fit into Middle Earth, but come on, this is fantasy, there has to be mages"

And if someone believes that Tolkien Enterprises actually cares about the lore-breaking things for Middle Earth, here's a quote from their licensing director Laurie Battle from 1998 when Tolkien Ent. took away the license for Middle Earth from ICE:

"To be honest, our eye is focused more on royalty income rather than on the finer details of the games themselves."

http://www.rpg.net/columns/briefhistory/briefhistory9.phtml

The last years 1994-2001 - 16th paragraph.

Aside from that they have pretty much stayed within the confines of the Lore.

Also, while you want to make spectacular games, people need to play them inorder for you to be able to feed yourself and keep the game running. Sometimes sacrifices need to be made.

Am i say what they said was right? Nope.

Just need to remember that if you need money, you need money. There is a fine line between  that and greed though and this qoute sounds greedy, imo.

Einherjar_LC and Thillian are exaggerating the entire debate. to the point of being severely detached from the reality of the situation.

They seem to live in a wold where turbine is out to get you.

 EDIT: My appogies Einherjar_LC, you are definitely the more sane of the two.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

 

Einherjar_LC and Thillian are exaggerating the entire debate. to the point of being severely detached from the reality of the situation.

 

They seem to live in a wold where turbine is out to get you.

 

 EDIT: My appogies Einherjar_LC, you are definitely the more sane of the two.

Its not like thier claims are groundless. Turbine has added Radiance even though the community doesnt want it and Turbine stands it ground that is is a necessity.

Why cant they just make it progression based from a few quests?