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Newsroom
Warhammer Online : Major Layoffs at Mythic
Posted Nov 09, 2009 by Michael Bitton
According to a report over at Gamasutra, Mythic Entertainment, the developers of Warhammer Online have taken a major hit in EA's latest round of layoffs. A number of presumably now former Mythic employees' tweets are cited in the report, with one Katherine Pitta stating that as many as 80 employees or 40% of the Mythic Entertainment workforce was hit in today's layoffs.
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This story is still classified as rumor, but we have contacted Mythic for confirmation. We should have some more information when EA's quarterly earnings report is released later today.
UPDATE: Lending some more credence to the report, Mythic's Josh Drescher tweets, "Since folks have asked, I am fine. Official stuff will follow, I'm sure. A tough day, nonetheless."
UPDATE #2: We have contacted Mythic, but they cannot make any comment at this time.
UPDATE #3: We can now confirm that the layoffs today have indeed occurred, as it has been revealed in EA's just released quarterly earnings report that 1500 jobs are to be cut by March 2010, with today's cuts included in that total.
While we have confirmation that layoffs have occurred, the extent to which Mythic Entertainment has been affected cannot, and that aspect of the story will have to remain as rumor until/if we can get confirmation on the exact figures.
Via Gamasutra.
the sea of mmos is a cruel mistres indeed :P
Death by EA is also a cruel way to go. Hopefully, with the major improvements that have been made in WAR and the new trial system, more people will be brought in and Mythic can bounce back.
Sucks when people lose jobs... there are mouths people have to feed, bills to pay, etc.
Let's be straight though... release an inferior product and you get poor results. Let this be a lesson to other game developers... we're tired of your half-arsed products, so either get it together or start updating your resumes. I realize other EA studios had layoffs too, but if WAR was living up to the insurmountable amount of hype that they fabricated, then Mythic wouldn't have been touched. You don't see EA laying off any BioWare employees (yet).
There's a Blizzard ad "Now Hiring" on the Gamasutra page with the story. LOL
Tell that to the little ppl who have probably lost their jobs, you know the sort of ppl the ones who get given a task to do from their superiors and carry it out, the ones that do as they are told.
I'l wager that the real decision makers are still holding onto thier jobs.
It's a dog eat dog world and business can be cutthroat, especially in the game industry. However, they were all a part of a team that failed to reach their goals. That's business.
I doubt that all of the decision makers will be safe, since after all, they were driving the vision and have the higher salaries.
It happened. I've seen a bunch of posts on it from my facebook friends in the industry :(
~Ripper
While it's true that WAR didn't live up to the hype, calling it inferior or half-arsed is a bit extreme.
Since WoW, no MMO has been able to live up to the hype fanboys place on them.
However, several games that did not live up to their own hype are very well-done. AoC, WAR and Fallen Earth being a few of them.
While they did fall short, pre-WoW 300,000 subs would have been considered a wild success.
Measuring up to WoW's sub numbers, ALL other MMOs are considered failures.
This does not mean they are bad games, and many of us see them as quite good.
EDIT: Fallen Earth doesn't really fall into that category I guess since it was virtually hype-less and kind of flew in under the radar. If games like WAR or AoC had this benefit, they simply would not be seen as failures.
I'll keep saying it again and again: WAR is a bad game. period. It didn't fail cuz of overhype or whatever, just plain bad.
It's not nice to hear people lose jobs but I think that if your schedule/budget to create an mmo is what WAR had you're wrong from the get go and that is what you get.. so you can't blame mythic I guess.
Haters give no explaination. They just hate.
Sad to hear about the job losses but just like Funcom with AOC before them Mythic failed big time with Warhammer and has to pay the price for that failure.
Mythic will be merged with Bioware, which will take over the EA MMOs as well (it will be a bit more like Blizzard)
Watch this space
Tier I is free now, what should make some ppl to subscribe but I think that they will get more money if they make all game free with some item shop (DDO hybrid model is imo best)
EA's latest round of layoffs
Nuff said. It isn't just WAR, EA is laying people off in general I assume.
I wish Mythic would have remained independant, at least their ideas wouldn't have gotten wattered down by the hurricane that is EA.
A merger with Mythic and Bioware could prove fruitful though if that did happen. Let us just hope Bioware doesn't start having its name tarnished as well.
Did EA not have a round of layoff last year of their employees?
Well they sold their company to EA wtf they did expect, cookies and free stripers, they diserve their end for the stupid mistake the did. EA bought and bankrupt almost all of the good companies in the last 10 years. And Bioware went to EA, to make BG with shiny graphics, and terrible world designs for the mainstream masses. YAY!
Bioware will meet the same end, if at some point they dont keep the profit up as now, so they will make shiny games disguised as rpgs, mmorpgs, but mainstreamed to death, so they can be sold. Look at the latest Dragon Age, that every editor wants to kiss their asses, free or payed, but is just a inferior NWN, with terrible limited world, good graphics and bling, bling...Of course most of them are weak souls that never played a decent rpg in their life.
YAY for us...
If WAR was doing well then EA would not be laying of ppl in that compnay. The fact is that WAR is NOT doing well - it is in a mess regarding alot of features - and huge portion of changes and fixes in the past year have been just bad. Showing how totally out of sync Mythic is with the game.
I think alot more than just 80 ppl are leaving from Mythic. Many of the senior producers are going over to BIoware and they will take the best talent with them.
Mythic... well.. failed with WAR and its showing. Its that simple.
Free to play withing 6 months. Or just shut down all together. Thats how simple it is.
It's sad to see people lose their jobs, but the game just didn't deliver.
Tell that to the little ppl who have probably lost their jobs, you know the sort of ppl the ones who get given a task to do from their superiors and carry it out, the ones that do as they are told.
I'l wager that the real decision makers are still holding onto thier jobs.
Thus has it always been, thus it will likely always be. Those with power do much better than those without. To corps like EA/SOE and more and more Blizzard, the people down in the trenches actually doing the daily work, are just interchangeable cogs in the corporate machinery. "Plenty more where that came from" is their perspective. Which of course does wonders for morale... But political machines(systems) are the same way(or worse). Its just the nature of power.
Well said.
well its been stated that EA is cutting 1500 jobs all around i don't think the mythic guys had a chance even if war was doing better than it is. its happening everywhere companies are down sizing all over, hell the little factory i worked at for the last 5 years just shut down and they moved the work to another plant they own. i saw it coming tho, new company came in bought us a few years ago, slowly cut back our medcial and moved our biggest money maker to the Corp main facility to make.
p.s FUCK YOU Polyvision "Day took er JABS"
It's a dog eat dog world and business can be cutthroat, especially in the game industry. However, they were all a part of a team that failed to reach their goals. That's business.
I doubt that all of the decision makers will be safe, since after all, they were driving the vision and have the higher salaries.
Haha the CEO fired 40% because they need there million dollar bonus...(Figure of Speech)..
Mod edit
"EA is performing well, with quality, sales and segment share up so far this year," said CEO John Riccitiello. "We are making tough calls to cut cost in targeted areas and investing more in our biggest games and digital businesses."
Mythic and WAR isn't one of these games. Thats just a fact with probably more than 50% of the staff leaving their headquarters today.
Is Dark Age of Camelot now property of EA I would assume? It is too bad I don't have the money to buy that IP, I would remodle that and rerelease it in a heartbeat.
What I find amusing, is that back few years ago when EA bought mythic, and a few hundred of us cried doom and gloom, saying EA had never made a good mmo, and every company purchased by EA ends in the same way... mass firings... people laughed at me.
Now here we are, mythics been canned, the game they produced is crap, and now EA's moving on to Bioware.
Im rather interested to see how that will pan out. Will Bioware make the FIRST EA mmorpg that doesnt suck? We shall see.
Heres how I see it with the merger of EA and Mythic.
Say I had a pretty successful MMO company which took me years and years of money and development to create maybe 2-3 really good MMOs. I would be ecstatic! But looking at all that cash coming in and having my greed factor into play that I need 3 summer vacation homes, a circular driveway and a couple of Mercedes as driveway ornaments, what can I do?
Dilema, do I get the 3 summer vacation homes in Bermuda and the driveway ornaments for my new 100 acre circular driveway or sink even more money in topping my last MMO for sake of keeping my good name and long lasting career as a MMO developer?
"OR" do I sell out to a company like EA and have them foot the bill, still get paid, and own those 3 summer vacation homes in Bermuda with a 100 acre circular driveway at the expense of EA while cranking out mediocre MMOs that I dont have to worry bout whether they succeed or fail cause Im not worried bout losing my job, just those under me?
Welcome to EA-Mythic!!!!
I could be wrong but this tells me its possible in this day and age. Hell, look at AIG, and all the other big corps who`ve not only been bailed out but the "executives" got to keep their jobs along with those nice fat bonus incentives!
Speak of the devil.....Below me is a ad for Battle Forge, I guess i dont need to say whose name is tied to that do I? lol.
You forgot to mention the $500,000+ vacation and extravagant parties those executives have had after receiving our bailout money, but that's a story for another thread.
Your a gentleman and a scholar! And No, I didnt forget, nor did the millions of other Americans who paid for it! Our day is coming where our constitution and American way of life will be restored as our forefathers intended it to be! Prepare for civil war my friend its on the way, but thats another thread entirely!
Anywho, hope you caught my drift on how I think possibly MMO comps are "teaming" up with big corps to split the bill sorta speak. I still could be wrong on my theory as I dont have solid and complete insight on this part of the industry at hand. Still, a pretty good theory considering!
True, but Dragonage seems to be selling fine while WAR is losing more and more subs.
EA really have 2 choices with Mythic: Either plow down some cash so they can make a new game, DAOC 2 preferable, or fire all they can, use a skeleton crew to milk out what they can and the close it down. It seems like they are going for the second option, sadly.
The really best thing would be to put some money and people into revamping WAR instead, the world is really good and the game engine in itself works well. Force the people to play the Warhammer tabletop and RPG game a while so they actually could make it close to the original. It would cost a lot of money but nothing compared to start from scratch.
The whole problem here is that Mythic have all their cards on a single game. Mythic was in a position where they would fail or succed based on just WAR. Bioware have several games on the way, even if TOR becomes a big failure will they have other games that sells well. And the fact that Mythic was sure of at least a millon subs doesn't help either.
It is sad both for gamers and people working for Mythic if EA closes them down because of a single game.
Bioware is doing a lot more than a MMO so it is a lot harder to trash them than Mythic. TOR might fail but EA can always forceBioware to make sequels of their huge games, like Baldurs gate 3. Because EA is usually trying for safe cards and Bioware could probably live for a long while just with sequels, like Maxis does.
Mythic used up a lot of money and gave little back, the blame is not only on EA. They took an IP with millions of fans and made a MMO which have rather few players after a year.
I don't think EA micro-managed Mythic into turning WAR into what it is, Mythic did that themselves. What EA is doing is that they seems to be giving up on Mythic and slowly closing the company down instead of fixing WAR or making another game.
But if you were Mythic, who would you give the cash too? Mythic or Bioware? Bioware have made a lot of singleplayer games and even some non massive multiplayer games and they have sold well, every single game. Mythic have made DAOC and WAR, not bad games in themselves but far from bestsellers. Even if TOR fails will Bioware pull in cash for EA.
Mythic could still turn WAR or make a great other game but it is risky, EA goes for the safe card (that is why they are making a new FIFA game every year, it is a safe card, and The Sims stuff).
Your a gentleman and a scholar! And No, I didnt forget, nor did the millions of other Americans who paid for it! Our day is coming where our constitution and American way of life will be restored as our forefathers intended it to be! Prepare for civil war my friend its on the way, but thats another thread entirely!
Anywho, hope you caught my drift on how I think possibly MMO comps are "teaming" up with big corps to split the bill sorta speak. I still could be wrong on my theory as I dont have solid and complete insight on this part of the industry at hand. Still, a pretty good theory considering!
Civil War? Hahahahahahhahahahahhahahaha............hahahhahahahahah. Not gonna happen, keep believing in delusional fantasies my friend! No one has the balls to start a civil war. And if they did, they will be defeated quickly! And then they would be tried for treason/sedition as the Constitution dictates!
I feel bad for the Mythic employees who got laid off, but WAR was a huge flop. The game is on life support and I don't see it ever coming out of the ICU.
@ smut
Perhaps you should do a study on gang populations and militia populations that threaten national security. There are healthy doses of demographics within the US who are actively trying to secede. A civil war of national size might be laughable, but internal unrest is very much alive and growing.
OP: Best of luck for all former Mythic employees hit by these layoffs. Your most recent patch brought me back to the title and have been enjoying it casually each weekend with coworkers. I do hope you find employment during these tough times.
WAR for me was actually the only major improvement i saw in the last 5 years in the mmorpg industry, but they failed the high end content unfortunately, because they tried to make it mainstream with no decent rewards, or imerssion. See Aion lol. Keep sieges were also too easy, fast, not very big rewards, but still fun when no lag.
Public quests were great, Tome of Knowledge another great thing, pvp from lvl 1, knock backs, colision on objects, models, ability to hide from attacks etc, it actually moved on from the mainstream WOW crap, and they tried something new. I dont know if they comeplelty failed by theirself, or they got pressure from EA to have 1 gazzilions copies sold, so mucho money, mainstream gameplay, EA Happy, gamers fucked.
A mmorpg in these days doesnt have to have milions subscribers, smart companies have 100-300k subscribers, and they are doing very well, unless they are sold to EA , Ubisoft or other major crap company that only cares about sales, thus mainstream, no inovation, risks, etc.
So now we have indie, or small companies that try or even succed with decent games like EVE Online, Fallen Earth,Rzyom, Guild Wars(tho they have a huge publisher), all interesting games, but not all polished, which can hurt sometimes.
On the other hand huge corps like EA, UBi, Sony have the manpower and money to make the greatest games ever imagined by us or devs, but they dont do that, why? Is not a hobby, is not a game anymore, it a bussines, and only that for them.
A good example is the latest game from Bioware, they sold to EA, have huge manpower and money now, and they use the same recipe for their games, but even more broken and limited, with flashy graphics and boobies...
As for WAR Layoffs, it can only be good for the devs that left, they have experience they can go to or form other companies. As long as they dont want to create the next Crapmainstream, they will do just fine.
my 2 RONs lol
It is a shame indeed. DAoC was my first love. And to be honest still is.
I do hope they see the potential in DAoC and do something with it.
Whatever...I find it hilarious people bring up civil war because they do not like the democratically elected POTUS. We live in a democracy, things are changed within the system, not by going outside of it and threatening or talking about civil wars. Regardless, this is a gaming forum. So not sure why anyone brought up politics to begin with so I will drop it.
Again, my sympathies to the Mythic employees, especially in this tough world we are living in.
I was shocked back when EA and Mythic merged.. EA's track record for eating up and closing studios was extensive.
I knew Mythics other MMO wasnt looking good at that time, but i never expected them to sign the deal with the devil EA.
1500 employees is a really large amount.
They will gut the studio and refill it with a new dev team under the Mythic IP if they ever want to make a sequel to Daoc or something.
Most wont even know the difference...
The report i read the other day stated massive layoffs from all EA games that were not making a decent profit.Ea said they are going to instead focus on their games that are making money.
This is a VERY gray area,because single player games require no staff or updates,so they are clear of over head.This tells me that Warhammer is as good as shut down in the VERY near future,because they will not devote any money or staff to the game now.It also tells me that because MMO's require an ongoing staff and cost,you may see EA cut the whole MMO equation out unless the game is making a lot of money.
What i don't understand is that Warhammer although not busting at the seams,must have a decent player base or no?100k at 15 bucks a month is some pretty good coin[1.5 million a month minus costs] in my books.I think this is why the layoffs,they will keep the game going as long as players are willing to accept no more expansions or updates,because they will have no more staff devoted to that area.
Even though games can easily overcome costs with the 15 bucks a month,the problem is that the 15 bucks a month has to fund the entire EA operation.The staff that remains needs to be paid,they need to continue funding further products and single player games do not do that as they are divvy up at the time of sales,where as the MMO's keep the money coming.
This whole ordeal smells really,they are going to use a game like War and the massive layoffs to fund a totally ridiculous purchase for 400 million of PLAYFISH.Then you add in the fact that most CEO's get bonuses based on profits and the profits were down 17% so a few bigshots are looking to line their own pockets here.IMO profits dropping by 17 % does not mean your company is struggling or failing,it just means you didn't make as high a profit margin as last year.
ONE word sums up this fiascal>>>Politics at the high end of EA.
Warhammer Online and 100k subs? Looking at the few servers that are left. It won't take a rocket scientist to see they even went below the subscriber mark of AoC.
Why would EA devote more money into WAR if they know they can't fix it, but to have it completely redesigned from scratch, wich will cost millions. Ain't gonna happen!
WAR has so many issues and flaws, that they appearently aren't able to fix. Otherwise they would have end last year / early this year, when they still had enough of a staff.
It has become more and more appearent that Mythic's game engine can't cope with largescale RvR and sustain many players in one spot. Hence, the reason they gave up on Fortresses and now just removed them.
So instead of fixing stuff, they now entered a process of removing more and more features from the game, make Tier1 free and so try to milk out the remaining subscribers till it gets shutdown.
Cheers
It was stupid and pompous for EA to try it. Another (very similar) fantasy mmo when wow was still new? At first I liked the grittier art and pvp promise but that was as far as it went for me. Why are we feeling sorry for employees? People have lost their businesses from town to town in this recession. At least these guys have had a decent paying job.
On the horizon: get ready for the blizzard/activision empire.
You answer your own question in your following sentence. And because people are losing jobs and businesses from "town to town" we are supposed to not care or feel empathy? Ah, internet anonymity is a great thing, let's twatters really show their true colors.
Brad, Richard and MJ, shouldn't step into this industrial anymore.
Maybe even Paul...
This is why you dont sell out to EA.
Lets hope the same shit doesn't happen to Bioware after it's MMO shares the fate of WAR.
You answer your own question in your following sentence. And because people are losing jobs and businesses from "town to town" we are supposed to not care or feel empathy? Ah, internet anonymity is a great thing, let's twatters really show their true colors.
When I said businesses from town to town I didn't mean major JP morgan owned mega-corporations. When you sign up for one of those you should know what to expect. Yeah I understand today's kid doesn't know the difference between the real entrepreneurs and the wage slaves. Sure, you could make me feel sorry for the slaves I guess but eventually we're all going to be a number with absolutely no control over our own livelihood. How does your gay twatter comment apply to me?
Dont know how true, but : www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php
Thread no. 546
At least Bioware still makes decent single player games alongside it, that sell really well.
So even if SW:TOR fails. They still have single player games to fall back on.
Mythic had nothing to fall back on, except the few subs left on DAoC.
Cheers
Why are you convinced that Bioware's MMO will fail, or are you trying to get a little trolling into the thread?
Whatever...I find it hilarious people bring up civil war because they do not like the democratically elected POTUS. We live in a democracy, things are changed within the system, not by going outside of it and threatening or talking about civil wars. Regardless, this is a gaming forum. So not sure why anyone brought up politics to begin with so I will drop it.
Again, my sympathies to the Mythic employees, especially in this tough world we are living in.
In an age of Home Land Security, such discussions are most unwise in a public forum any way...
Its too bad about the people who lost their jobs. But its all too predictable, knowing EA's past history. Hopefully, they can find other employment soon.
In an age of Home Land Security, such discussions are most unwise in a public forum any way...
Its too bad about the people who lost their jobs. But its all too predictable, knowing EA's past history. Hopefully, they can find other employment soon.
Democracy... wonder who gave him the idea we were in a democracy? George Lucas? That people think this now is even more hilarious than the original idea itself.
In an age of Home Land Security, such discussions are most unwise in a public forum any way...
Its too bad about the people who lost their jobs. But its all too predictable, knowing EA's past history. Hopefully, they can find other employment soon.
Democracy... wonder who gave him the idea we were in a democracy? George Lucas? That people think this now is even more hilarious than the original idea itself.
Blame the public "educational" system. Most people have no clue about the difference between a Democracy(which the Founders/Framers rightly feared and despised) and a Constitutional Republic.
Of course they feared and despised democracy - they were rich, white, male, and many of them owned slaves. Not a demographic which would be inclined to egalitarianism.
Back in the day, EA was an innovator.
For the most part, EA has been a re-release company for years. They make a retread of any and every mildly successful product as often as they can - sports games (football, golf, soccer, etc.), racing games, etc. They also put out movie based games, which always suck. They have a few FPS franchises, but they're usually sub-standard. If they don't own it, and it's successful, they buy it and retread it into the dirt.
They forced Mythic to release Warhammer early with the obvious results. EA is just a disaster.
Of course they feared and despised democracy - they were rich, white, male, and many of them owned slaves. Not a demographic which would be inclined to egalitarianism.
Your vaunted "egalitarianism" has feet of clay... The mob simply can not be trusted to wisely wield the power of the state. Their petty hatreds, envy, ignorance and spite are much too easy to manipulate. But this isn't the forum for such discussions, mores the pity.
Sad but true. But EA is all too typical of the short term corporate mentality. Just about everything is done with an eye on the *quarterly* report. Its difficult to have a long term plan when thats your main focus. But if they don't focus on that then the shareholders howl. But EA has gone from bad to worse over the last few years.
All the comments about EA being in the wrong here are just "simple"...no real thought put behind the responses.
Mythic sold out to EA why? Because they KNEW the quality of WAR. They KNEW they were running out of cash. They KNEW that their game would not float them enough cash quick enough upon release to let Mythic survive on it's own. Mythic's sell out to EA was a way for Mythic management to grab cash and run instead of simply going under.
It's not EA's fault that WAR is what it is. It is original Mythic's fault. The only thing you can blame EA for is not throwing good money after bad by letting Mythic continue in it's present size with WAR.
As some others have stated. Stop releasing unfinished games. Stop making promises that you don't keep in terms of launch content. Stop creating hype, let hype create itself! If you create a good game, it will prosper on it's own with a modest amount of advertisement. Plan your budget around releasing the game when it's ready. If you can't budget that, then you have no business being in the business of online gaming.
These days, consumers have been pretty eager to punish developers and publishers that scoff at this common sense. They still get an initial cash "pop" from initial box sales, but when word gets out about the lack of quality of the game, it's days are numbered.
P.S. Don't think I'm an EA fan. I've hated them since they canned Earth and Beyond :(
Your vaunted "egalitarianism" has feet of clay... The mob simply can not be trusted to wisely wield the power of the state. Their petty hatreds, envy, ignorance and spite are much too easy to manipulate. But this isn't the forum for such discussions, mores the pity.
Nope. According to Jefferson we're only here for the occasional bloodbath whenever government goes bad. Strong leaders and eventual government is still needed though.
Of course they feared and despised democracy - they were rich, white, male, and many of them owned slaves. Not a demographic which would be inclined to egalitarianism.
Oh ok even though some of them supported the new French democracy. Besides we're much less free today then we were under those horrible slave owners. Wonder how future generations will see us--those arab killing, third trimester baby slaughterers stripping third world resources and assinating anyone that doesn't go along with our corporatocracy.
"We"?
Not women, blacks, and the poor.
"We"?
Not women, blacks, and the poor.
Hmm, at least 2 great excuses they've had to turn all of us into slaves.
Hmm, at least 2 great excuses they've had to turn all of us into slaves.
via wage and debt slavery. Ironic that a guy named George Fitzhugh predicted it all. The irony being that he used it as an argument against abolition.
Hmm, at least 2 great excuses they've had to turn all of us into slaves.
via wage and debt slavery. Ironic that a guy named George Fitzhugh predicted it all. The irony being that he used it as an argument against abolition.
Great way to confuse people as to what's best. As if we couldn't have abolished slavery without having to accept all the crap that came with it.
Hmm, at least 2 great excuses they've had to turn all of us into slaves.
via wage and debt slavery. Ironic that a guy named George Fitzhugh predicted it all. The irony being that he used it as an argument against abolition.
Great way to confuse people as to what's best. As if we couldn't have abolished slavery without having to accept all the crap that came with it.
Yep, you'd think, if his argument was out of sincere concern for the slaves and working class, that he would have fought for fair labor and wage practices. But nope... just the crocodile tears of a concern troll...
Why are you convinced that Bioware's MMO will fail, or are you trying to get a little trolling into the thread?
Whats the average sub total for a MMO in NA/Euro? Excluding WoW? 150k
How many subs does WAR have? About 100k.
To a AAA company like EA Average subs is a fucking failure because WoW has 6.5 million subs in NA/Euro.
It doesn't matter that WAR is just a tad below average and it wont matter when TOR has between 200k-500k subs.
We all know WoW was a freak of nature but these crazy ass AAA companies don't! They think your a worthless piece of shit if you cant hang with the ten ton gorilla.
It's WoW numbers or your fucked. Now can you honestly see TOR hitting WoW numbers? Not a chance in hell.
Whats the average sub total for a MMO in NA/Euro? Excluding WoW? 150k
How many subs does WAR have? About 100k.
To a AAA company like EA Average subs is a fucking failure because WoW has 6.5 million subs in NA/Euro.
It doesn't matter that WAR is just a tad below average and it wont matter when TOR has between 200k-500k subs.
We all know WoW was a freak of nature but these crazy ass AAA companies don't! They think your a worthless piece of shit if you cant hang with the ten ton gorilla.
It's WoW numbers or your fucked. Now can you honestly see TOR hitting WoW numbers? Not a chance in hell.
You know...I'd like to think that even EA wouldn't be quite THAT stupid... But then I think back on some of the stunts they've pulled in the past... You might well be on to something here... Unless Bioware can talk some sense in to them, even 350-400K players might be considered a "failure" by EA.
This is why you never ever sell your company to EA, this is why you never ever trust EA, EA is the destroyer of companies..when will these people learn to never sell to EA..how many companies have to be destroyed?
Also interesting they are laying off all these people yet they just purchased Playfish for $400 million.
digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20091109/ea-buys-playfish/
Democracy... wonder who gave him the idea we were in a democracy? George Lucas? That people think this now is even more hilarious than the original idea itself.
Blame the public "educational" system. Most people have no clue about the difference between a Democracy(which the Founders/Framers rightly feared and despised) and a Constitutional Republic.
Come on, now you two are just playing semantics. Also, you do not know me so let's not assume what I have or don't have a clue about. This is a game forum so I used the popular term democracy. No need to act like I do not have a proper education because I used the word "democracy". And if you really wanna define it, we are a Federal Republic and a Constitutional Representative Democracy.
As Lincoln said, we are a government of the people (res publica), by the people (dimokratia).
Democracy... wonder who gave him the idea we were in a democracy? George Lucas? That people think this now is even more hilarious than the original idea itself.
Blame the public "educational" system. Most people have no clue about the difference between a Democracy(which the Founders/Framers rightly feared and despised) and a Constitutional Republic.
Come on, now you two are just playing semantics. Also, you do not know me so let's not assume what I have or don't have a clue about. This is a game forum so I used the popular term democracy. No need to act like I do not have a proper education because I used the word "democracy". And if you really wanna define it, we are a Federal Republic and a Constitutional Representative Democracy.
As Lincoln said, we are a government of the people (res publica), by the people (dimokratia).
I thought you were going to drop it. I just think democracy was a utopian ideal that developed in the age of enlightenment that now seems little more than illusion. Maybe the greeks came up with the idea but the same philosophers that promoted it also had slaves. Go figure.
Democracy... wonder who gave him the idea we were in a democracy? George Lucas? That people think this now is even more hilarious than the original idea itself.
Blame the public "educational" system. Most people have no clue about the difference between a Democracy(which the Founders/Framers rightly feared and despised) and a Constitutional Republic.
Come on, now you two are just playing semantics. Also, you do not know me so let's not assume what I have or don't have a clue about. This is a game forum so I used the popular term democracy. No need to act like I do not have a proper education because I used the word "democracy". And if you really wanna define it, we are a Federal Republic and a Constitutional Representative Democracy.
As Lincoln said, we are a government of the people (res publica), by the people (dimokratia).
Certainly we have a government of, by and for the people... But WHICH people? If you mean the ones with the wealth and position to buy the politicians I'd quite agree. We've had that type of government for generations and generations. But we really need to drop this now, and get back to gaming.
I remember people posting warnings when Mythic let EA into the picture. But I can't really see EA as the one to blame. Mythic had to have known there would be a price for getting help from a big company like EA. The price was that they either had to deliver on their promises or there would be consequences. These are the unfortunate consequences. The people who were fired have my sympathies.
There were elements of WAR that I did enjoy. The general PvP mechancis, the Scenarios, Public Quests and some parts of the open world RvR were fun.
But things like the forced mixing of PvE and PvP (esp in Endgame content and Crafting), the absolutely terrible zone layout and design, and the mediocre PvE content and needless timesinks really made the game suffer.
Then there was the awful lag which I understand has only recently been fixed because of bottlenecking bugs they only discovered a YEAR after release.
http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=949
Game performance lost Mythic hundreds of thousands of subscribers, no matter how good their PvP is. Waiting 1-2 minutes for a letter to be mailed was ridiculous. Crashing issues in open world RvR when it's supposed to be the main feature insured no one would stick with the game.
I guess this just goes back to the old lesson that publishers still haven't learned. Releasing a MMORPG full of bugs is no longer acceptable. If it means you have to wait another year to fix them, then fix them. If it means your company has to post losses for several quarters because of that, then that's what it takes. Because you won't make any money trying to release a game too early.
Accuse Blizzard of whatever you want, but they don't release a game before it's ready. They'll even cancel games that aren't turning out right (Remember Ghost?) One has to wonder why the brilliant CEOs of other companies (in any industry) haven't managed to figure this out. They're just too busy looking at the next quarter's profits instead of the long-term reputation and quality of their products.