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World of Warcraft : Wood: Pets and the Boy Who Cried Wolf
Posted Nov 05, 2009 by Jon Wood
MMORPG.com's Jon Wood uses his column this week to look at the recent announcement that Blizzard will be offering in-game pets for real life money and the fan reaction, or over-reaction to the news.
Yesterday, Blizzard announced that they would be adding an in-game shop where players could buy vanity pets, and in characteristic fashion, the MMO world went bat dung crazy. Even my Facebook, which is loaded with MMO folks, was taken over by posts about Blizzard moving to microtransactions.
I swear, the way people react to these things you'd think that item stores were Godzilla and Western players were the poor residents of Tokyo just trying to get away from the damned thing, wrecking everything they know and eating everyone they love.
For the record, they're not, but we'll leave my personal opinions about item mall based games for another rant entirely. Instead, we'll focus on this particular announcement. Comparing this announcement, by the way, with microtransaction revenue models games, is like comparing apples and zebras. It just doesn't make any sense.
Charging players 2/3s of the monthly sub fee for a single pet is absolutely ridiculous.
I pretty much agree with the article, but zebras > apples.
Blizzard has just crossed a terrible threshold, and has lost a 10+ year fan today.
Vanity is fine. No one cares about your purple tortoise that has 6 legs and a grumpy face. Actually, knowing the WoW community, the people that get them, unless female, will probably be made fun of.
Great article. I agree completely.
I don't understand how people cannot make the distinction between RMT that has absolutely no affect on gameplay and a full-fledged cash shop.
How exactly is a dancing panda going to affect anyone's gaming experience or imbalance ANYTHING? The answer is: It won't. Not one bit.
And the argument that Blizzard's donations to charity are a smokescreen is completely ridiculous. Many old-school MMO gamers are just so anti-WoW that they are constantly looking for something, anything, to complain about related to it. They just can't stand the idea that WoW is so unbelievably successful while their favorite game of choice fails. And it REALLY pisses them off that Blizzard might actually *gasp* be doing something GOOD in the process.
It is a microtransaction. This is a single zebra for sale at an orange stand to use your metaphor. Your article aims to remove the tag because it's not 'required' in game. Well guess what, every part of a game is not required either. Blizzard has been slowly introducing more micro-transactions into it's game, and I'm happy to see it's customers telling them what they think of it.
Wow Jon, good job at bringing up points such as how this affects the MMO industry as a whole, or how this decision may be just a way to slowly soften people up so that, in a few years, they can start selling other things like increases to stats or XP or weapons.
On the other side, good job bringing up how this is a great, easy way to get gifts for family/friends that involves the games they play but doesn't involve buying them a new mouse. Or what about the new pet buying system... how it works, how it plays into the recent account mergers. Or how it's a great way for people to meet achievements without shelling out lots of gold on other vanity pets, thus tempting them to the dark side of gold buying?
But no. Instead you spent all that time going "STOP QQING!" by... QQing. No insight into the industry aside from "the more you yell, the less they'll listen to you" (which is only true of companies that honestly don't care about their playerbase). Not actually adding anything to the massive 200+ string. Instead, it was a giant nerdrage where you're right and they're wrong and those against this should shut up.
There is certainly an element to hysteria to the reaction to the Real Money Pets, but you can't dismiss the concern that this could easily grown into a something less benign.
Blizzard had to invest in the infrastructure to support the buying of Vanity pets and it would be foolish not to expand it to sell other things and maybe even things to make your character more powerful.
And History has show that in previous experiments like ,SOE did with Everquest 2, it didn't take long to offer things like Xp bonues and such that had a direct impact on the power level of characters in their game.
The Blogger can poke fun all he wants, but I hope he has the courage to follow up his dismissal with and apology and rant if Blizzard pollutes WOW with microtransactions.
This is designed as way to get people used to RMT , while i m not against them donating to charity in fact i m all for , what they are doing is plainly sugar coating the pill . Its a PR stunt plain and simple .
Not so much the boy who cried wolf but the wolf in sheeps cloathing .
Its a slippery slope and one i myself forcast would happen starting with pets .
Yeah, you are too correct. It's the infrastructure and time they spent putting it together that makes you wonder. However, if they can make a profit off of vanity items by putting in the development time, then they should do it. It's really a win win since people get happy when they buy a pet and blizzard gets money.
It might seem like a slippery slope, but I think they can make a huge profit on purely vanity items. They have a big enough subscriber base to make development time worth it just to provide vanity items.
It seems a cash shop is becoming a neccessary evil in MMOs. Dunno if the money really goes into developing the game itself. Well, I should start studying the companys' annual reports. ,)
It would have been possible to introduce a means so players could craft" cosmetic items" for themselves or/and others. Simply by including a editor to make/change the design on your own, without changing item stats.
Or introducing taming skills so players could tame wild animals and train the animals to be used as mounts.
As an "old-school CRPG" player I don't really care about the cash shops. But it just leaves a stale aftertaste.
Then don't buy it.
I would really love to believe this, but I sadly know what happens when marketing/sales is given even the smallest amount of control. They don't care about the people, only about the numbers, and if the numbers show strongly for pets, they will push and push and push until those at the top tell those who are fighting to keep a little bit of morale for the players to shut up or go find a new job.
As another player pointed out, SOE did the exact same thing... slip the frog into the pot and slowly bring it to a boil.
Welcome to the world of columns and opinion pieces.
And for the record, the entire article revolves around the encroachment of a different revenue model into the Western MMO market, and how in some cases people over-react to them. This over-reaction to harmless additions is indeed making it easier and easier for those powers that be to ignore the voices of their players. This, in turn, will make it easier for companies to get away with less scrupulous behavior. Who's going to listen to the boy who cried wolf when a wolf actually appears if they've pointed at every house dog that's walked by and screamed bloody murder?
But yeah, it was probably just an un-thought out nerdrage.
Welcome to the world of columns and opinion pieces.
And for the record, the entire article revolves around the encroachment of a different revenue model into the Western MMO market, and how in some cases people over-react to them. This over-reaction to harmless additions is indeed making it easier and easier for those powers that be to ignore the voices of their players. This, in turn, will make it easier for companies to get away with less scrupulous behavior. Who's going to listen to the boy who cried wolf when a wolf actually appears if they've pointed at every house dog that's walked by and screamed bloody murder?
But yeah, it was probably just an un-thought out nerdrage.
Whenever I see a blue post, I feel like I just saw a deer. :'D
If the game companies don't listen to the voices of the boys crying wolf, the boys will take their subscription elsewhere - regardless of whether there really is a wolf there or not.
I really don't like item malls if the items purchased in them give advantages in the game. If they want to charge real life money for fluff items that don't really do anything, I don't really think it's a cause for getting upset. If they cross the line though down the road, I think people would be justified in being upset.
This column never happened. What did you just do to the conspirator theorists that claim that mmorpg.com is on an anti-Blizzard agenda? What would these poor souls do now?
Actually, I am not aware of a single game that has yet REQUIRED you to buy something to advance in the game off their cash-shop. Sure, many things make it MUCH easier, make your character much more powerful or add a whole new dimension, but they are not REQUIRED.
That is going to be the basic argument for anyone defending their favorite company using double-dip revenue models. So, if Cataclysm (the next WoW expansion) should, just hypothetically, increase the time to level from 80-85 to a whooping 300 hours, but allow you to buy a potion which cuts it to 30 hours, you will still have plenty of reason to claim its not REQUIRED. Its merely a perk.
Of course, that would mean that no game has a real cash shop, which obviously isnt true, thus we get to the problem of where to draw the line and differentiate between cash-shops in the regular sense, and just costly added service in the Blizzard sense.
Which is really why this outrage happened: For a lot of people, that line has been crossed. And that line is completely subjective, anywhere between "you may not be able to invest more than 15 dollar a month into the game" to "if its not absolutely required to log in your char, its not a micro-transaction based model".
Personally, I dont consider this latest move a surprise, nor do I consider it a real cash shop yet. Blizzard is doing it in increments, and so far, they are approaching but have not crossed my line of tolerance. Ultimately, the goal would be to stop JUST short of the point where a sizeable portion of your playerbase leaves, thus making you lose more money than you gain. Its, for example, quite possible that Blizzard can afford losing half their playerbase, if the other half uses their cash shop enough.
In the end, by the time WOW2, or whatever the next game of theirs is going to be, comes around we will have been slowly convinced of the normality of monthly fee + service extra cost + cash shop + expansions, and thus will be paying a LOT more to play these games at the relative level that we are now.
And know what? I think overall, that may be a good thing. If MMOs stop being such a ridiculously cheap pasttime, maybe the struggling markets of other hobbies, esp. offline, who noticed a serious dent in the available free time (and thus willingness to buy) of many of their customers since WOWs release, will get going a bit again.One thing is for certain though, and I am absolutely serious: The time of being a fully capable, equal player of modern MMOs with just your monthly fee is coming to an end.
oh please are the WoW players so daft that they are only NOW noticing the RTM shop.
1 word
/pizza
It has also shown that when SOE did that, rational people who did not like this change, quit paying for the game.
Should Blizzard ever cross the line into non-trivial RMT then I will probably quit the game. Until then I am not gonna commit the fallancy of a slippery slope. A slippery slope only applies when you cross the line from good to bad. A good or neutral change that in some future scenario might lead to bad things should be considered on its own merits.
I know, because the pet only lasts for a month!
oh, wait....
As with many things in the world, the truth in the argument falls somewhere in the middle.
Two vanity pets for $10 each does not spell doom for World of Warcraft or necessarily indicate that Blizzard has immediate plans to put Legendary Instant Win Trinkets on the store. The pets that they are selling have no impact on gameplay at all, and based on Blizzard's track record, I really don't think they'd put any items on the store that affect gameplay. Someone said that this is the first step to turning WoW into a F2P/Item Mall game, but the subscription model has been and is still working so well for them, I seriously doubt there's any possibility of this for many many years.
On the other hand, this is the first time Blizzard has put an in-game item up for sale directly from their store, and that warrants some scrutiny. It is possible that they're testing out the functionality and the reaction of players with the idea of expanding the store to other things such as mounts and who knows what else. Also, some players like to try to collect all of the vanity pets in the game, and this forces those players to pay out an extra $20 to complete the collection, which isn't very nice.
So I think it's worth discussing and posting to forums with a sort of mild warning to Blizzard to not get any wild ideas about their store, but everyone should also try to keep a level head and not jump to huge conclusions based on these two silly little pets.
I think that might be a bit of a superficial argument, at best. I'm sorry, but there is a clear distinction between something that helps you in-game and something that simply provides aesthetic value.
In the case of your above example, people probably should complain... and loudly. That was the entire point of the article. If everyone screams at the top of their lungs over aesthetic sale items, it makes it less likely that anyone, game company or casual MMOer who doesn't frequent forums, is going to pay any attention if and when a company double dips in the way that you suggest above.
Look, I'm not giving Blizzard or any other company a free pass to screw people over, or to compromise the integrity of the subscription system in their game. I'm simply saying that context is very very important in this case.
Sure people can bitch and complain about all of this but what's really important here is when you vote with your wallet. That is really the only thing that would cause a company to take notice.
"By raising a gigantic stink about this particular move on Blizzard's part, the only thing that is going to happen is that next time, when a company actually does do something offensive like charge a subscription and offer game-enhancing items within a store, is that no one is going to listen to the horde of people that are crying foul."
For the record this is the first time I've commented on this specific recent topic. Disclosure out of the way, I understand your point but I think you too easily forget that with companies who see the bottom line constantly as you state in your article, it is very common practice to "start" such practices with somethings that seem harmless and "for a good cause". That way they lure people into complacency. Use the "non-essential" items as a test run and to setup the infrastructure needed. Then, after a while, add 1 or 2 items that affect gameplay and release statements downplaying the "degree" of effect they have.
It's a snowball effect. These companies want to justify their actions sometimes by claiming the majority of the customers want this or that. That's why themepark games are being made a dime a dozen. Well, the majority of Western gamers don't seem to want item malls.
They need to take the hint and investigate other ways to get money. Like adding premium servers that cater to various gameplay subsets. I know roleplayers would pay extra on monthly fees for the chance to have more systems that gave more depth and player control. PvPers would also for servers that offered up more options to them. These are things western gamers want! Yet they (companies) consistently ignore them and try to push and edge in things they don't want.
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGHHHH!!
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Its amazing people are STILL going on with the irrational hyperbole.
Welcome to the world of columns and opinion pieces.
And for the record, the entire article revolves around the encroachment of a different revenue model into the Western MMO market, and how in some cases people over-react to them. This over-reaction to harmless additions is indeed making it easier and easier for those powers that be to ignore the voices of their players. This, in turn, will make it easier for companies to get away with less scrupulous behavior. Who's going to listen to the boy who cried wolf when a wolf actually appears if they've pointed at every house dog that's walked by and screamed bloody murder?
But yeah, it was probably just an un-thought out nerdrage.
The problem is that there IS a wolf. It's sitting right there, nibbling on the sheep, and half the people are going "oh, don't worry, it won't do anything more than nibble" and the other half are going "OMG THE WOLVES ARE GOING TO EAT THEM ALL!"
Obviously the wolves don't care to begin with. Maybe they are just there to nibble. Maybe they're not. The fact is that if they weren't listening to the people in the first place, they aren't going to care if anyone's running around crying wolf... in their mind, there will always be more sheep to eat. It's not making it easier to ignore people... that's like saying that if it weren't for corrupt people filing frivolous lawsuits, there wouldn't be any corrupt lawyers. And suggesting that more people yelling means that they get away with doing worse things? What? They do worse things not because people are yelling louder, it's because as long as people buy, they will sell. It has nothing to do with "Oh, thank goodness people are yelling so much about this issue, it just makes it easier for me to sell whatever I want!"
Then there's the fact that the only company that I know of that's slowly introduced the "buy for things that don't affect you" concept is SOE. And last I checked, they didn't stop at cosmetic things.
PS: For the record, your article does not revolve around "how strong, negative reactions hurt the playerbase." The vast majority of it is about the points that the naysayers have brought up and why they're wrong, and defending a corporation for doing what it does best: make as much money as it can.
My god the stupid is strong in this thread. To me this is yet more proof that WoW has some of the most crybaby Asshat players out there. These complete and utter waste of skin crying about this vanity pet are the same assholes who blew Ezra shit because of the act of kindness Blizzard and make a whish provided. One of my guild mates twelve year old daughter has gotten fucking death threats in tell simply because she had her new Padarain out in Stormwind. This is a fucking game morons and it's a business, if Blizzard wants to make every item buyable they will. The only two reasons anyone would have an issue with this is 1: They are pissed because the item is available to anyone with 10.00 to spare or 2: they are too ghetto to afford it. No other reason is logical. So in the end if you don't like it don't fucking buy it, and stop blowing cancer patients a little girls shit because they have something that you don't.
You're making pretty far reaching assumptions here. I mean, sure I suppose this COULD be leading to something more, but I don't think that just because that possibility exists that everyone should assume it to be the case. Looking rationally at this and the other RMT that Blizzard offers like the various change to character options that players have, a pattern seems to indicate that the company's plan is to offer aesthetic options only.
Your statements, said rationally and in an informed way as they were, about the possibility existing that companies might take advantage of something like this are perfectly valid. You said it, you backed it up and made people aware of a possibility. you didn't rage at the top of your virtual lungs.
using the boy who cried wolf analogy: You said - hey guys, there might be wolves in this area so watch out. You didn't say - Sweet jebus, a WOLF! RUUUNNNNN!!!!
I'm not saying that Blizzard won't turn around one day and open a full blown cash shop. I'm just saying that the time to bang on pots and pans, hit panic buttons and scream as loudly as possible hasn't come yet and the more often people do all of those things on this subject, the less effective it becomes.
Thing is Blizzard have been doing these fluff items for ages (3 years) through the TGC cards that you can buy that give some mounts or pets. Exactly same thing and people never complained about it. As long as it remains fluff items, then I don't see what the fuss is about.
Very good article: though I think some of the posters are to blind, conspiracy mongers, or maybe just living in a cave (with internet). It's a really easy analogy to understand & stomach, though some may disagree with the effect or importance of such RMT-like things games do these days.
Nobody worries until something bad happens, as they'd much rather have hindsight to use as fuel for their flames. The minority (or so it seems) of the sane thinkers will on that day just smile :)
This is ridiculous. Outrage over 2 vanity pets? If your whole basis is that they are starting to charge real life money for items in game; then where was the outrage over TCG items that could be redeemed in game for mounts, pets, tabards, and wands? Where was the outrage when you could recruit a friend and get a zebra mount but that also allowed your account to be linked to that recruited friends and get triple the experience for your low level characters while you hunt together and to even have levels granted to low level characters? Is it perhaps that since you don't want to pay for a vanity pet you don't think anyone else should be allowed to either? Grow up and actually pick your battles. Just make sure they are actually real battles and not jealous childish whining.
Wow....the nuclear language aside I can't say I disagree. I too have seen a lot of people get waylaid by other players simply for having their Padaerian out...but on AD, GM's were also publically banning the offenders. Never understood jelousey.
[quote=Jon Wood]When you go to the movies, you pay for your ticket. You expect that you're going to go in, have a seat to sit in, the movie will play properly, the sound will be working and all that jazz. Everything you need to have watched the movie. That's what the ticket covers. Now, the theatre also offers you the option of buying some popcorn, at a remarkably high makrup. You don't need that popcorn to get your money's worth out of the ticket you bought. You don't need that popcorn to enjoy the movie but it might just enhance your movie-going experience. Nobody yells at the kid behind the counter because it isn't included in the ticket price. It's business. I could completely see your beef though if you bought your ticket and they made you pay extra once you got there for sound.[/quote]
you are completely missing the point jon.
yes pets and decorative items can enhance your playing experience like popcorn in a cinema,
BUT
paid popcorn cannot be nerfed,
paid popcorn cannot be made obsolete with a new bigger paid popcorn during the movie session
popcorn does not affect your status in the cinema
etc etc
a better comparison would be:
movie ticket : $10
buy special goggles to enhance your viewing experience $1
you dont NEED to buy the goggles, but not doing so will prevent you from enjoying the movie the same way as the guy with goggles sitting next to you.
besides, we all know very well what an apparent harmless rmt pet could mean.
next you have a bigger pet on the rmt, then the accessories for the pet, suddenly the pet requires food to live which you need to RMT buy, then you can buy the small pet house...
i was surprised you are being so short sighted on this one.
Welcome to the world of columns and opinion pieces.
And for the record, the entire article revolves around the encroachment of a different revenue model into the Western MMO market, and how in some cases people over-react to them. This over-reaction to harmless additions is indeed making it easier and easier for those powers that be to ignore the voices of their players. This, in turn, will make it easier for companies to get away with less scrupulous behavior. Who's going to listen to the boy who cried wolf when a wolf actually appears if they've pointed at every house dog that's walked by and screamed bloody murder?
But yeah, it was probably just an un-thought out nerdrage.
Who's going to listen to the boy who cried wolf when the wolf walks so slowly that he can only be seen when he takes a step? The boy will cry out at each step, and sure no one will listen to him after a while, but eventually the wolf will reach the sheep.
The difference here is that there is a wolf, and not just a bunch of dogs. A while back everyone saw a dog and cried wolf when Blizzard added more and more cash services. People cried wolf that there would wind up being RMT in WoW. But everyone said no there's no wolf, it's just paid service, a dog, and there won't be RMT in WoW because they said they are against it. Well now that RMT is here, the bloody wolf is right in your face again, but oh, no it actually a dog because they have TCG rewards and all these other lists of excuses, BS.
It's a grooming strategy. But luckily not every person in the world is a sheep and needs to be told when a wolf is coming, or when something just plain stinks.
Try all they want, they won't get me to play a game where I win by how much I pay, that must sound like a freaking wet dream to them I'm sure, but it ain't gonna happen. Eventually people are going to realize how retarded RMT is, and if not, then I can assure you that at least I won't be involved.
..win by how much you pay HAH!! what a joke.
Right before I quit playing Ultima Online, I remember seeing advertisements that would let you buy a character with 80 in all skills (out of a maximum 100) for $20. And that was 10 years ago.
Early on in that game's history, it took 6 months to get all 7 possible skills to 100. That's how "grindy" it was. How is that for "game changing" RMT ?
I think his analogy was spot on. I think that having a vanity pet does not improve the gaming experience at all in any way. Just like I don't think popcorn does.
Your analogy is the one that got off base and acted like it was offering a "feature". It is not offering a feature.
This certainly brings an interesting point to the table, what exactly is "Influence in Game" it seems most ppl will close themselves in their gameplay style, now for a person that plays WoW to collect every possible pet it does influence their gameplay it means they have to spend money to buy these pets since they cannot be acquired in game by any other means, so it does influence someone's gameplay maybe just not yours.
Most ppl in WoW do look for fluff items, look at the mounts craze that went around a few months ago.
It sets a presedence(or however it is spelled, I'm Norwegian, sue me!), for dime and nickle you for content that the subscription is supposed to. pay for.
Great example of this is SOE and SWG's cardloot. Offering content that the players have been dying to get for years...Only to those that pay extra.
So, for Blizzard to spend countless hours on developing a webshop... It's not just to sell you a pet or two... It's the first step of getting into your wallet and have you pay for the content you're supposed to get in your subscription.
But hey, call it QQ'ing as much as you want. When the day comes and you have to "microtransact" yourself to get content... Don't start QQ'ing.. Cuz we told ya so.
People always forget about the TCG loot items.
Like it or not, a lot of players have been asking for this very thing for a long time. As long as TCG has been around, in fact. Many collectors don't like having to sift through dozens upon dozens of cards to get that shiny piece of in game loot that they were looking for. They've been asking Blizzard to just cut out the middle man and offer vanity items for sale. Now they have.
Let's be entirely realistic here. Blizzard would never have implemented this if there was no market for it. But I've been a long time reader of the WoW forums, longer than I've played in fact. There has been people asking for this. And if there was enough posts of that nature for me to notice, then surely the people who get paid to read those forums and communicate with the rest of the WoW team has noticed them to. They judged that there was enough of a market to make a profit with it.
People complain about the evil bloodsucking corporation, but I've read literally dozens of posts from people excited about their new pets. And those are the people that Blizzard implemented this for.
People are deluding themselves if they think the RMT will stop at meaningless pets.
Soon it will be standard to play an MMO with a subscription plan and you will have to buy items to experience all of the content.
Personally I could care less what Blizzard does. I just worry about the trickle down effect that will happen when the copy cat companies follow suit.
No it is you that is missing his point. He is saying yes there is a potential for all of this, but he still finds it unlikely. Until it gets a little further along the slope, that getting upset is actually counter-productive to the masses that are mad.
edit:
And as far as adding more pets and accessories. Once again, they did not, do not, and will not ever be game-affecting. They are called non-combat pets for a reason, they give no stats, they don't let you into special dungeons, or fetch epic gear, they are bop so people wont sell them in game for ridiculous prices. So if they add 1 pet or 1 million pets the differnce would absolute 0.
People are deluding themselves if they think RMT will ever affect gameplay in WoW.
WoW will never require you to pay additional money to have an advantage over another player.
Personally, I could care less. However, I hope that western MMOs adopt the vanity mall that WoW seems to be implementing over the in game advantage mall that other MMOs like EQ2 have adopted.
You make the false assumption that Blizzard is the first to have done this. Fact of the matter is, Blizzard is following a trend that was already there, and there have already been people saying they were willing to pay extra for vanity items.
Do I believe Blizzard will go and start selling gear? No, not at all. Frankly, they've made it so it's incredibly easy for anyone to get geared in a short amount of time as long as they play. And that's what Blizzard really wants. People playing.
You can come back and feed me my own hat if they do decide to sell gear, but I'm willing to bet they won't. There's no reason to, and likely won't ever be a reason to.
Well, most people don't mind if the RMT influences RPers (costumes etc) or in this case, vanity pet collectors.
I have no problem with blizzard having a cash shop that sells useless things.
But something tells me they are testing the waters for something bigger. I cant see blizzard wasting there time unless they are going to expand the cash shop to make some real money.
And i am glad people are making such a stink over it so a cash shop expansion doesnt happen. Hopefully blizzard will learn there lesson and stay away from expanding their cash shops.
Fat chance of this though....... people are sheep and will buy cash shop items + buy the game + pay subscription + buy expansions b/c thats the way of the flock
FFS, they are not charging you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
they are offering it to you...you don't have to buy it... It also won't give you any boost in PvP what so ever.
The way some people look at this make me wonder if they are just trying to find something to complain about
YOU DONT WANT THE SPECIAL PET.... FINE DONT BUY IT !
Are you or anyone else being forced to purchase those pets? They aren't called *vanity* pets for nothing. Vanity can be rather expensive...
Did anyone see the part saying that some of the proceeds are going to the Make A Wish Foundation?
Or is that just another way Blizzard is going to "soften" up the community for the eventual cash shop?
And yet again, I didn't see anything stating that you are forced to buy the pets.
good article.. I totally agree with it/.. and see no harm in sellin g the pets, if daoc did that and made it to make a wish foundationn. i would buy one in a heartbeat...
Eventually all MMO's will have some form of RMT it is a cash cow, just look at DDO they were dead for years and now the same game has to open new servers to keep up with demand. I play Perfect World and the community there is awesome mainly because the Epeen factor has been removed. Warhammeronline has already announced a Free 2 Play Model and there are rumblings about a cash shop as well...also look at SOE they are steeped in RMT right now. You really can't blame Blizzard for somthing that has already happend.
Edit:oops sorry replied to the wrong post but the sentiment stands :)
No they will buy the xpac, game, and subscription for the same reason everyone else buys things... the people that develop/make/gather those things have supply and there is a demand and therefore they have value.
That is just a tax break, with your money. You don't get the tax savings because you didn't contribute, Blizzard did.
I think his analogy was spot on. I think that having a vanity pet does not improve the gaming experience at all in any way. Just like I don't think popcorn does.
Your analogy is the one that got off base and acted like it was offering a "feature". It is not offering a feature.
no it wasnt spot on
having a vanity pet improves your experience in the same way for some as having a vanity armor with the exact same stats than the one next to it but looks cooler. status is very important in an mmo.
and my analogy was spot on because popcorn, unlike the special goggles is consistant.
just like they can introduce a new vanity pet down the line, the cinema can introduce a new special goggle to replace the old one.
no it wasnt spot on
having a vanity pet improves your experience in the same way for some as having a vanity armor with the exact same stats than the one next to it but looks cooler. status is very important in an mmo.
and my analogy was spot on because popcorn, unlike the special goggles is consistant.
just like they can introduce a new vanity pet down the line, the cinema can introduce a new special goggle to replace the old one.
I could give a rat's arse about status, i just like having a pandaren pet, not because others will think im cool (stopped caring about that around age 20) I just like the pandaren and their appearance.
Edit: and as far as status goes: to a mature rational player, status comes from ability and personality not what your gear looks like or what pets follow you..... Otherwise I wouldn't group with my friends I'd Merc out and find a "hardcore" guild.
Man so many only want to look at the negative of everything, no wonder nobody is happy around here.
here's the arguement-- they are just selling fluff items, argument against, but but but! they could do this and that and blah blah blah, until they do it i don't really care. there here comes people --but if we don't cry about it now they will do whatever they want blah blah blah, guess what, they will do whatever they want anyways.
People have been screaming about what companies do with their mmo's for years now and yet no matter how much doom and gloom is spit out, they are still here, these companies will have enough people playing their games, the minority that hate RMT will just have to go back to buying single player games and paying for the extra content from the CE's..shh just don't tell them paying for extra content in a CE is basically like RMT.
That is just a tax break, with your money. You don't get the tax savings because you didn't contribute, Blizzard did.
That is a cop-out. The fact is they are donating proceeds from these sales to charity which is not a bad thing at all. I don't care about getting a tax break. The point I am making is that it isn't just a completely money grabbing act on Blizzards part, but then again trying to make people see things like that around here is tantamount to bashing my head against a brick wall.
This thread is bringing back terrible flashbacks from the SWG "Vets" forum...make it stop....
No it is you that is missing his point. He is saying yes there is a potential for all of this, but he still finds it unlikely. Until it gets a little further along the slope, that getting upset is actually counter-productive to the masses that are mad.
edit:
And as far as adding more pets and accessories. Once again, they did not, do not, and will not ever be game-affecting. They are called non-combat pets for a reason, they give no stats, they don't let you into special dungeons, or fetch epic gear, they are bop so people wont sell them in game for ridiculous prices. So if they add 1 pet or 1 million pets the differnce would absolute 0.
in-game houses also dont allow you into special dungeons, or have stats, or fetch epic gear.
how would you feel to have to buy an rmt house in your mmo?
the character and its immediate wears are NOT the only relevant posession in an mmo. the rest of the fluff is there for a reason, and if it werent they wouldnt be trying to sell pets would they?
They're vanity pets people, calm down. They have absolutely no effect on your character's abilities so it's not like Blizzard is executing a micro-transaction business model where only the players who make purchases can stay competitive. Some people like to collect the pets, and it's really not that different than the TCG rewards(all of them cosmetic/vanity) and the Blizzcon gifts (also cosmetic/vanity pets/mounts) given to attendees.
You know what I find funny?
People claiming that Blizzard doing this is nothing big, but you'd be wrong.
They CAN sell gear in these shops if they chose to, you know what it would be? Heirloom gear, instead of adding in more, they could simply tack on a $5 tag to the item ($7.50 if it adds to gained xp) to these. They aren't required now are they? Its just Heirloom gear right? Well, the current heirloom gear wont scale past 80, they've already admitted that, so whats to stop them from doing this with the next set, or adding a price to "upgrade" the gear so it does.
Besides, the pets in the store DO affect the game. The pets count towards achievements, and as they add more pets to the store, what's going to happen?
Either the pet achievements will have to be doubled to reflect this (making it even harder, if not near impossible, to get this without spending $20+), or they will just include crappy pets into it (like they do already).
They could also start selling mounts too, those dont affect the game either.
People really need to start looking at the implications of this in the context of WoW and the new money-grubbing Acti-blizz.
As for the TCG pets and mounts, guess what? Its a card-game, they chose to give you a bit more of an incentive if you are a WoW player to try the card game. IF you enjoy it, guess what? Then if you do get a loot card, its a bonus. If you just enjoy the cardgame, well you got a gift for a friend if he plays WoW (or free cash on ebay :P)
I think a good deal of the issue is that it does have a detrimental effect on the gameplay for some people. Everyone knows there are people out there who will want one of these pets, but they do not want to give into the the "machine" that is blizzard. They would feel dirty by paying for an extra, but at the same time they want the item really bad to stand out from the crowd in a way. Other people who get to stand in town showing their pet off will make them rage and thus ruins the game.
Everyone else who either buys a pet, or knows they have zero need or want for it will not be affected at all.
Personally although I don't play WoW nor anything else at this point in time, I don't get why all the hate towards blizzard for selling a permanent item available to all characters for $10. Maybe you all missed the news that it will cost you $12.50 to get a 1 time retcon for your Hero in Champions Online, and sure, you can do that ingame as well, which will be an arguement for some. But that makes it worse because 1) its not needed and should be earned ingame and 2) it DOES have an effect on gameplay, by giving some people the ability to switch to FOTM while still keeping their ingame gold for other things.
in-game houses also dont allow you into special dungeons, or have stats, or fetch epic gear.
how would you feel to have to buy an rmt house in your mmo?
the character and its immediate wears are NOT the only relevant posession in an mmo. the rest of the fluff is there for a reason, and if it werent they wouldnt be trying to sell pets would they?
Well as opposed to not having one available... I'd gladly pay an extra couple bucks a month for a house, or guild house for that matter. Granted player houses do give some in-game benefit.. ie place to store things etc.
Ask yourself this... Did BLizzard setup item shop to sell just two pets ever?
You all know the answer to this dont you ?
Making the assumption - just like John - that MMOs need to make more profit, then everyone should also know where it will lead.
But I think Im not the only person in the world today that feels like the last fortress of true gamers has fallen. BLizzard as a company was build by gamers - for gamers. Thats what made their game popular. They were not doing anything else than createing unconditional fun in games. And if it wasn't fun -then it simply wasn't there.
Blizzard has sold out - and at the same time changing the face of WOW forever. Before WOW was a game where the GAMER could while playing get everything in the game. This fundemental thing has now changed. Some ppl are talkin about the card game pets beeing exactly the same. Thats simply not true since ppl that bought the Card game were not nessiserily WOW players - they were buying a card game.
This is a sad day in more ways than one. BLizzard has always been the icon of what was possible to do when the gamers were in control. They are no longer in control at BLizzard. The company is now driven by other means than what it was built on. This is a fundemental change - and is sadly just the start of what is to come from the company.
Will ppl really belive that diablo 3 or starcraft will be created for the gamers now ? Or even cataclysm? How many items will only be available through items shops ? How many maps will be released in SC and how many will you have to pay extra for through the new Blizzmalll that are forced to go through now?
And where will it stop? Vanity items ... as in look of gear ? Can ppl buy diffrent colours on armor ? Even diffrent looking pieces that can be added to the tier armor already in the game? Its endless questions and we all know by now that there is no limit or a line that wont be crossed - Cause BLizzard has already crossed it. Now its only a questino how much the buisness model can push the true gamers working at BLizzard. And tbh - there seems to be very few of those left. If any.
Yep I think this has been put into perspective now...this is the sentiment from an MMOfringe devotee...the same website that was formed simply to bash SOE by the Whineass SWG vet community. So folks if you are crying about vanity pets you are basically hitching your wagon to Internets lunitic fringe
no it wasnt spot on
having a vanity pet improves your experience in the same way for some as having a vanity armor with the exact same stats than the one next to it but looks cooler. status is very important in an mmo.
and my analogy was spot on because popcorn, unlike the special goggles is consistant.
just like they can introduce a new vanity pet down the line, the cinema can introduce a new special goggle to replace the old one.
I could give a rat's arse about status, i just like having a pandaren pet, not because others will think im cool (stopped caring about that around age 20) I just like the pandaren and their appearance.
Edit: and as far as status goes: to a mature rational player, status comes from ability and personality not what your gear looks like or what pets follow you..... Otherwise I wouldn't group with my friends I'd Merc out and find a "hardcore" guild.
well im sorry, that may be your taste but why do you think developers bother to produce better looking armor and wears as your character levels up? or badges to show off? or bigger and better houses?
just because it doesnt affect you it doesnt make it any less true.
The issue for which most people have, Jon, is something that seem to have eluded you entirely.
In MMORPGs there are two business models. One that wants you to pay a monthly fee and one that wants you to pay for items or other ingame stuff, so called RMTs.
What is slowly happening now, started with Champions Online, is that companies are now trying to do both. They want to both eat the cake (have monthly subscription fee) and have the cake (income from RMTs).
Nice speech about companies having to worry about their bottom lines but the fact is that games, most of games, charged only ONCE for the game and then never again. MMORPGs stretched that by requiring a monthly fee, allegadly for the infrastructure and other costs related to maintaining an MMORPG. But now they want all three, first a one time payment, then a subscription fee and now also RMTs.
Now you may try to convince us that this is "bussiness as usual" (maybe because MMORPG.COM lives on ad money from said companies) but anyone with half a brain realises that if games were profitable before then why do they now all of the sudden require all this extra income? Is it for surviving? Does anyone really think that WoW with its 11 million subscribers (with all the millions coming in every month from those people) are really hurting for money?
No, it is all about greed and about companies that have alot but wants more and more. Which coincidently is one of the reasons for why the world economy is in the state it is. Greed and more greed.
Nice rant, Jon, but the first sentence contains an error so massive it makes you look foolish right out of the gate. Yesterday Blizzard announced that the BLIZZARD STORE would be selling in-game pets (vanity pets) that are BoA. They did NOT say they were putting in an in-game store (we call them vendors) where you would spend real money (secure transactions are secure?) to buy vanity pets. The pets are available from the online store (http://us.blizzard.com/store/details.xml?id=1100000763 for the Pandaran Pet and http://us.blizzard.com/store/details.xml?id=1100000762 for the Mini-K.T. pet) for $10US a piece.
The part that amuses me to no end is people like the first poster in this thread, who somehow think that getting another vanity pet at a discount is a bad thing.
Discount?
Yes, discount. I paid $30US each for my collector's edition vanity pets, and the one that came with Vanilla WoW made me have to make a choice between one of three (you couldn't have all three like you can now) so I had to have alts to show off all three of them. That's $90US shelled out for a special pet only a handful of players like myself would be able to show off. Even considering 5 pets for that price means I still paid $18US each for them, or nearly twice what they're asking for the new pets.
CRY
ME
A
RIVER.
If you don't want to spend the money, don't. Just don't expect them to hand the pets over for free. Blizzard may not be about item mall-based games, but they know what people will pay money for and they don't change their pricing over whiners.
Anyway, not a bad article otherwise. Keep up the good work and get someone to proof/fact check your work so you don't make this kind of mistake again.
in-game houses also dont allow you into special dungeons, or have stats, or fetch epic gear.
how would you feel to have to buy an rmt house in your mmo?
the character and its immediate wears are NOT the only relevant posession in an mmo. the rest of the fluff is there for a reason, and if it werent they wouldnt be trying to sell pets would they?
Fluff is there for a reason. Would you care to know that reason? It's really quite simple...
People like fluff!
That's all there is to it. I know lots and lots of people who enjoy having things for the sake of having them. Status doesn't enter the picture. In wow, I stalked the time lost protodrake for 2 weeks, not because it would raise my status, but because I liked the model, and I think the gold and black coloration is the best combo for that model.
I'm really sorry that it's difficult for you to understand, but people really do enjoy having certain things for the sake of having them.
I could give a rat's arse about status, i just like having a pandaren pet, not because others will think im cool (stopped caring about that around age 20) I just like the pandaren and their appearance.
Edit: and as far as status goes: to a mature rational player, status comes from ability and personality not what your gear looks like or what pets follow you..... Otherwise I wouldn't group with my friends I'd Merc out and find a "hardcore" guild.
well im sorry, that may be your taste but why do you think developers bother to produce better looking armor and wears as your character levels up? or badges to show off? or bigger and better houses?
just because it doesnt affect you it doesnt make it any less true.
Buying one of these pets will effectively give you less status. In WoW, you will be considered a wannabe scrub.
Hoorah Jon Wood!
It is incredible to me the level of childish, anti-capitalist nonsense that people can spout. As if a for-profit company should'nt make more money! Your comparison to buying popcorn to go with your movie is right on the money - pun intended :D
Very nicely summed up. Best post thus far in thread.
To Jon Wood - Bravo man well said, well said indeed.
And the popcorn example wasn't a very good one.
Blizzard has always given free popcorn with all their products so far - cause it increases the qualtiy of their games. Now Blizzard has removed the popcorn and are charging for it extra.
Thus John - youi are right. Blizzard is nothing diffrent than all the others. The point that many are making - is that they thought BLizzard was diffrent. Cause they have always created games to maximise the player experience.
Now.... lets look at my example of the movies.
If I need to pee during a movie - I go to the WC and I expect it to be free. I could ofc be charged and deside to hold it till I come home. After all -Im there for the movie.
Blizzard has just started charging ppl for desiding to pee during their "movie". YOu can skip it.... but it will effect the quality of the enjoyment. Thats just a fact.
Well, everyone I must get back to work so I leave you with this.
Blizzard may very well one day announce they will sell gear, and that day I will /quit. until then I will continue to gain enjoyment from the conspiracy theorists.
anyway I'm out... remember to pick up your hat at the local grocery store.
edit: typo
Yep I think this has been put into perspective now...this is the sentiment from an MMOfringe devotee...the same website that was formed simply to bash SOE by the Whineass SWG vet community. So folks if you are crying about vanity pets you are basically hitching your wagon to Internets lunitic fringe
let me guess. you ran out of arguments?
It shouldn't. If there's a few things I've come to learn about MMO gamers in general, is they have limitless free time, and an abundance of pent-up nerdrage, which they must share with the world via their fingertips.
Now, if only they could clue in on how to edit quotes so they don't spam up half a page by replying...
Didn't we just go through all of this recently with Champions Online? What was the outcome of that thread?
I don't know much about the warcraft-lore, but,... a panda!? I'm pretty sure the lore contains no such thing, which means it's a REALLY bad addition (no matter if it's for a good cause)
What ever happened to the old argument about WoW not having any RMT because they thought it would ruin the game? I don't care if it's a vanity pet or a max level raid geared character. IT'S A GAME YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO WIN THINGS NOT BUY THEM. If they want to have vanity pets in the game FINE let me buy it with in game gold or a quest or something, wow.
LOL I can see it now, eventually all you freaks are going to be the only ones left in MMOs. You're all going to rush to the store, buy the latest AAA at release day, buy the CE, activate your bonus items, buy a max level character, buy all the equipment and items in the game, buy all the achievements, and you'll all simultaneously meet in the center of town and talk about how you won the game on launch day for $6141.95, how epic.
Again, collectors editions are for fans who admire the game, respect the company who made it, are grateful for the experience and enjoyment they get from them. Not for some crappy gimmick or item key. And I can assure you that if CEs ever BECAME about item keys and in game rewards, then I would no longer consider buying them.
www.wowwiki.com/Pandaren
Actually, they are a huge part of Warcraft lore. I was surprised that the new races did not include them.
You cannot be serious you don't remember the pandaren from wcIII?
/facepalm
I want every MMO gamer to ask themself this.
Do these two vanity items add MORE to the game buying them through Item shops than if they were gotten ingame through quests and playing experience ?
You all know the answer to this.
And then you also realise that BLIzzard has sold out. They have removed things FROM the gaming experience.
Blizzard has changed the fundementals of their vision. THey are now creating things - thinking about MONEY first - then the gamers. Before ppl liked to think that gamers came first.
BLizzard of old = Gamers first - then money
Blizzard / Activision = Money first - then gamers.
Argue it all you like. It doesn't have to be money first. It never has been with Blizzard games. Until now...
Hey champ...hate to be the little bird of reason taking a dump on your idiocy parade...but I doubt Blizzard puts much value in the opinions of a bunch of bitter nerds whining on some unrelated forum. You want them to pay attention? You cancel your account, and list this reason as why. Not a current subscriber? Then they more than likely don't give a crap what you think, regardless. The train will keep on rolling, and your opinion is a penny on the track.
in-game houses also dont allow you into special dungeons, or have stats, or fetch epic gear.
how would you feel to have to buy an rmt house in your mmo?
the character and its immediate wears are NOT the only relevant posession in an mmo. the rest of the fluff is there for a reason, and if it werent they wouldnt be trying to sell pets would they?
Fluff is there for a reason. Would you care to know that reason? It's really quite simple...
People like fluff!
That's all there is to it. I know lots and lots of people who enjoy having things for the sake of having them. Status doesn't enter the picture. In wow, I stalked the time lost protodrake for 2 weeks, not because it would raise my status, but because I liked the model, and I think the gold and black coloration is the best combo for that model.
I'm really sorry that it's difficult for you to understand, but people really do enjoy having certain things for the sake of having them.
precisely my point
regardless of why they want them they want them.
now you pay a monthy fee to play and enjoy the game in the same way as the guy next to you.
then the other guy shows up in a new mount, or builds a new house, or has pimp clothes which you can only get by taking your credit card out.
regardless if you want them or not, the notion is that in game items are suddenly not available to all who play; but to those who purchase them seperately.
the feeling of playing a game fades as every time you see a new pet, or new clothes, or whatever you see or think of $$$ .
then of course as i pointed out there is no knowing of where the line will be drawn. one thing leads to another until finally you find that the RMT player has tons of nice virtual items and you have nothing.
you will claim that that doesnt bother you but it does make you wonder if you are playing the same game as the guy who does buy RMT
Yeah, Blizzard always gave away their games for free until now!
Jon Wood there wasn't the need of an article you could have just posted like everyone else even mods post.
You are taking it too lightly you never know what others concerns think can happen or not in the future.
The example of the popcorn doesn't fit a game why? because you are tasting and eating the popcorn because you are hungry or want some "sweets" while watching the movie, as far as I know when your character ingame eats some meat or fish you don't taste what it's eating because it's virtual.
Like others said there are people that like to get every possible pet ingame and blizz will surely add more pets for sale It's obvious they will not waste all this whole time to create a shop with only 2 pets in it that would be stupid. The only way I would accept some of the pets in cash shop would be if the pets would look like bosses/world bosses then yes it would fit because it's something you would never think on getting in game like a baby gruul or magteridon lol.
If fans still think that the cash shop will have only rubbish that is only for show look at CO cash shop and tell me if it only has cosmetics or every single F2P every single one of them has stuff that can help you ingame or making it easier for you cosmetics and fluffs are not something that is bought a lot which shows why every single F2P has stuff that helps and even in many advantage on others.
Ps there's no need for name calling ppl keep it as a discussion wow is not something alive it's just a game don't take it personally.
Cheers.
You cannot be serious you don't remember the pandaren from wcIII?
/facepalm
I never liked Warcraft 3, was terrible as an RTS, people only played it for the mods.
Anyways, that makes me think the warcraft-lore is incredibly ridiculous, completely turns me off :/
I never liked Warcraft 3, was terrible as an RTS, people only played it for the mods.
Anyways, that makes me think the warcraft-lore is incredibly ridiculous, completely turns me off :/
What lore do you enjoy, Mr. Ialreadyhatewowandliketofindreasonstoreaffirmmypreviouslyheldbeliefsusinganythingicanfindevenifitissilly?
Warcaft 3 has a great lore but in world of warcraft it is ridiculous.
I completely agree with this guy. One more thing: Seeing John in such a passionte post is indeed a rare sight. Not a signal of passion after the fallen earth review fiasco,or when EQ2 put RMT for exp scrolls and such gameplay-affecting items. But, to say blizzard need the profit as any other enterprise .Hmmm..almost any other. According to john,the indies don't need money for food. They just charge you the subscription to keep the game running. But Blizzard? Poor fellas. They need this new money income. Yeah,now it's for pet's only. It's a constant worry now that games charge for subs+RMT, and every release someone points at that. And the paranoids indeed were crying WOLF when EQ2 came with the initial RMT. Here comes blizzard. How's the kid credibility now?
Thank you John for your well thought out and rational input.
I hereby reserve the right to claim "I told you so" when things do go south Jon.
Again, who cares about how other people spend their money? If Blizzard wants to charge a $100 for a mini Bill Gates pet, people will buy it and you will get to see who has more money than brains. All this does is point out the suckers
I hereby reserve the right to claim "I told you so" when things do go south Jon.
Ditto!
I never liked Warcraft 3, was terrible as an RTS, people only played it for the mods.
Anyways, that makes me think the warcraft-lore is incredibly ridiculous, completely turns me off :/
What lore do you enjoy, Mr. Ialreadyhatewowandliketofindreasonstoreaffirmmypreviouslyheldbeliefsusinganythingicanfindevenifitissilly?
Non- combat pets stopped being about the "lore" years and years ago. Where was there a Mechanical Squirrel pet in the lore? How many Harley's were in the games and RPG?
Yeah, Blizzard always gave away their games for free until now!
Blizzard has always been known for creating top quality games above all. The amount of profit was irrelevvant.
These changes are made to create EXTRA money. Acording to many - these changes do not effect game enjoyment. And Blizzard of old would then have not accepted things like that into their games.
The only purpose of this vanity items is to make EXTRA money. BLizzard of old would never have allowed that. Cause true gamers would add it into the game as part of GAMEPLAY - not to pay extra to enhance gaming enjoyment.
I have always respeced BLizzard for their products and I still do. That on the other hand does not mean that the FUTURE products from BLizzard will get my respect. Cause a line has been crossed where EXTRA money has been made more important than the enjoyment of the gamer.
Mr Wood,
What you've done here is taken a, "professional media backdrop," and pasted the rantings of a well worded World of Warcraft fan boys over the top of it. I can't really expect much more of you though. It's probably why they only let you write lists.
Comparing this announcement with the micro-transaction based revenue model is perfectly acceptable and your inference that it is not is... well... not acceptable lol What Blizzard have done here is introduce a micro-transaction based in-game store which is - shock horror - the same system that most MT based games use. The only differences are that (a) you have to pay a subscription fee to access the in-game store to them buy the pets, and (b) they are only planning to add vanity pets to the system and not game changing items or other things. Not apples and zebras, like you claim. Dullard.
As for this protecting the baseline? That's just simply not the case. In September last year Blizzard reported that they had ONLY JUST spent $200 million supporting the infrastructure for World of Warcraft over the (near) four years of its life. This is a company that reported a $2 billion revenue in 2008 - 2009 as well as a company that made enough of the World of Warcraft subscription alone to fund 4 other development teams working on 4 other titles. This isn't about covering the base line. This is purely about making yet more money and has nothing to do with covering their basic costs. That was a rubbish point and I' sure that you are aware of that ;-)
I also think that - if you support the idea of double dipping - then you are a greedy, selfish, untalented - clearly - man. However your point is flawed. If Blizzard felt that this would not interest the majority they would not have implemented it. As it stands however there has been a clear effort on their part to drive players into collecting vanity items such as pets, tabards, mounts etc. They've been churning over this since TBC. This is yet more one step on the ladder. Pets are a widely popular area of the game. It wouldn't be so bad if these items were available in game as well but the fact that they are shop exclusives is pretty reprehensible.
You know what? I'm fed up of reading your articles and having to deal with your opinion. You're a glorified fan site editor and nothing more and - most of the time - you are wrong ;-)
Some people actually put a high value on aesthetic items. People like looking different or having different pets, mounts etc etc in a game. They charge you roughly 50 bucks for the game and 50 for each expansion plus 15 bucks a month , now they want to milk you for even mroe If you want to collect everything in game? Pets will be the first thing ... then mounts, then something else.
Is it really a big deal? Probably not but it's the principle of the matter. But most people could give a shit , so they will make more money in the long run and continue to add more stuff down the road. So "win" for Blizz and a "loss" for consumers who can now expect some type of rmt in every single decent game down the road.
Welcome to the world of columns and opinion pieces.
And for the record, the entire article revolves around the encroachment of a different revenue model into the Western MMO market, and how in some cases people over-react to them. This over-reaction to harmless additions is indeed making it easier and easier for those powers that be to ignore the voices of their players. This, in turn, will make it easier for companies to get away with less scrupulous behavior. Who's going to listen to the boy who cried wolf when a wolf actually appears if they've pointed at every house dog that's walked by and screamed bloody murder?
But yeah, it was probably just an un-thought out nerdrage.
Go ask the EQ2 players how harmless the "fluff" items in the virtual card game has become? Ask them about the RMT only dungeon, quests and non-fluff items are.
Don't sit back and pretend this isn't just the beginning. I know you are not that stupid.
Blizzard is now removing developer time from their normal updates and withholding the content made by those resources for an disproportionately high amount of money. Sorry, but that seems rather unscrupulous to me.
What happened to blizzard happens to peeople in real life, in their youth they can be almost perfect, but later they becomes fat...
i just became a fan of infalible
i just became a fan of infalible
You should't be, the pets are in the blizzard store, not in game.
my gripe isnt the fact that they are selling a completely useless pet (that doesnt have an effect on gameplay at all) but the fact that it costs 2/3 of a monthly sub to get. Fair enough that on one of the pets half the money is going to charity but once that ends i really hope that drops down to $5 because otherwise its a complete rip off
Pre-ordering a collectors edition of a game is often $10-20 and in that you would get a pet (or something similar), maybe a map, soundtrack and an artbook.
All that for $10-20 extra.
Don't by them, or act like an adult and ask yourself if a digital pet is worth that to you, then, keep the results to yourself.
I would like to give Jon some credit for tackling a controversial issue and taking a stand as to what his point of view is. I certainly do not agree with him, but thats bound to happen when someone expresses their opinion.
Now, leaving aside for a moment my opinion on this issue, which ive made well known in the other threads addressing it, i would like to make a comment on the crying wolf analogy. We players have the right to make our voices heard through whatever forum will grant us the privilege to do so. I dont agree with the view that this in any way takes away from the comunitys (admittedly small) capacity to influence game developers. Blizzard is an industry leader (yes, the veritable Godzilla) and how we react to its policies and their implementation carries consequences far beyond WOWs playerbase. Other than quitting a game, vocal oposition is the one argument we can provide to those in companies making the decissions that affect us. They ignore players at their own peril.
The fact that, as many posters have pointed out, an investment has been made to allow for RMT is likely to bring this issue up for discussion in Blizzard´s board meetings. Other than the hard data on how this may affect their sub numbers (which they can only use in hindsight) it is players posting their rejection of RMT which will make the people on charge give this a second thought.
Back to my opinion on this issue. Some posters in here seem to almost relish the trend towards RMT weve seen overtaking the MMO world. This is unfortunate, as it is not RMT by itself that will affect gameplay, but the lack of restraint it encourages in game management, once the cat is out of the bag, and decissions are made with the sole purpose of maximizing profit. Since becoming a poster in this forums i have yet to be shown an example of a company adopting RMT without moving towards affecting the game experience of its users. NONE. One of the posters in this thread claimed to be a Perfect World player while expressing his support of RMT. He obviously hasnt been one for long or chooses to ignore the history of the game he plays in. P2p and RMT together are a perverse idea, and the one reason ill never support EVE whatever its virtues.
Finally, some people in this thread have reported in game threats motivated by the new pets in WOW. This is in no way justifiable and people getting banned because of this rightly deserve such treatment. People should voice their disaproval of what Blizzard has done and have every right to do so in a civil manner, never through intimidation.
I never said things wouldn't ever go south. I just said that what happened yesterday isn't actually proof of anything and that if people keep losing their minds over things that prove nothing, when real proof emerges, and someone cries foul over it, no one will listen.
I've got to disagree on this one (finally another columnist I can disagree with, about time).
Just because this instance is pets that don't affect the game, that is an easy place to start. It gets people used to paying money for in game items. Once people are used to that you can start selling more items and slowly work it to the point that there's pots and other items that start to become standard use in game.
I don't think there's anything wrong with people getting mad over this, I don't want to play a subscription game and then EVER pay real money in another way towards the same game. I also don't want people who are willing to pay extra money to now get stuff I can't. I don't particularly ever care about having a useless in game pet, but it doesn't mean that's where the company will stop. (For the record I don't play WoW and don't plan on ever going back to WoW, but as we know a lot of companies try to copy WoW to get the same money).
If no one ever questioned moves made both in the game world and real world, then we lose the checks and balances. You need the people who go over the top nuts, the people who never take notice of anything and the majority that falls somewhere in the middle. Telling those people they are essentially wrong to have their own opinions is fairly ridiculous and rude at the same time.
I also believe the charity is a smoke screen to help lessen the blow of adding real money items. I hate hearing companies toot their own horn and make a big public deal over giving money to charity, it helps show how fake it is. To be a truly generous company you donate your OWN MONEY to charity. Plus they are donating 50% of 1 item, so 25% and then don't forget they will be taking out the cost of making the items/running the store before taking away 50% to give to charity. If they really wanted to be giving they'd give 75% of both items, but they did 25% of the total to help gain support for making people pay them more.
Yes there are good charities out there, and yes it's good for people and companies to give to them. But it is greatly cheapened when it is used for a gain as opposed to being done simply to help the less fortunate.
A lot of you are being reactionary and stupid.
Blizzard is having a Charity Drive event. They are being nice to give something to people who donate to the event. They COULD have just asked for money and everyone would have gotten less.
This is a win/win/win situation. It's a Win for Blizzard, as it gets attention to the charity and good press for doing so. This is a win for the Make-A-Wish Foundation, as they will use the money for a good cause. This is a win for the pet collector, as they will get a limited edition pet for their collection.
So get over yourselves. This is for a good cause, and you are letting your own paranoia get in the way of what is a good thing.
they are doing a good thing many many many people will buy these two pets and that's it. Who the hell cares. My god yall really have been just waitin for them to do anything to bash em. Thats just pathetic.
It's not blizzard that is giving them the money is the customers that will buy these pets they aren't going to put 1$.
If a company wants to use subscription +rmt business model then by all means do so. People whined about SOE and Cryptic doing it and they are whining that Blizzard is doing it now. The thing is how Blizzard is going about this whole pet store. They are saying this pet store is for charity. Ok great, good on them but there is a catch,they are keeping half the profits. They are using this charity thing as an excuse to get people to use the rmt model they are planning to use in the future. So they figure lets make people feel sorry for the people in need so we can make more money. Thats the problem I have with the way Blizzard is doing this whole thing, its pretty sneaky and devious if you ask me not to mention pretty low life how they are going about the whole pet store.
Also gamers have to start thinking differently these days. It isn't all about making great games anymore. Its all about the benjamins, its a business. It is about making a game to make money. If gamers do not like the way companies are running their business then there is one of several ways what you can do. You can either not play their games, not play mmos at all or you can simply find another company that suites your needs and wants.
Ummm, that's all well and good, but only one of the pets is for charity, and only 50% of that. So of the 2 pets sold, blizzard will keep 75% of the profit (if both sale in equal amounts) and give 25% to charity. Kinda shitty. If it's for charity shouldn't all proceeds go to the charity.
First off you dumb asses that cannot read are missing the point that the pet only costs 5 bucks the other 5 goes to a very worthwhile charity and 2nd of all it is a bout damned time Blizzard did move to micro transactions since almost every other game company is doing it and with this it would kill off the gold farmers and spammers, so the only one bitching should be those that make money from gold being sold.
Nuff Said.
Ummm, that's all well and good, but only one of the pets is for charity, and only 50% of that. So of the 2 pets sold, blizzard will keep 75% of the profit (if both sale in equal amounts) and give 25% to charity. Kinda shitty. If it's for charity shouldn't all proceeds go to the charity.
I have a better idea. Quit WoW, donate $10 to the make a wish foundation and play a sub based MMO without a cash shop.
Saying that the vanity pets wont affect gameplay is pretty naive and outright stupid, to someone that wants the pet or collects them for that matter it does affect their gameplay, they now have an extra pet you can only get through RMT, it also affects the person who collects pets and wants the pet but for one reason or another cannot buy it and now has to see the person who has it with it but knowing they will never do themselves even tho they pay the same sub at the end of the day, and dont even say they are a minority there is a full website dedicated to pets where ppl can rank themselves on what pets they have.
Like someone said before me they are using the charity excuse to make more money, if they wanted to help the make-a-wish they would put up an ad and/or send out a newsletter asking ppl to donate $10 or so to make-a-wish and get an ingame pet, where the full 10 dollars go to charity not setup a shop.
Well, you already included something I was going to call you in your own post, so I wont bother re-typing it.
First off, ONE pet, just one, is having half its profits going to charity, not both.
Two, its ten bucks, don't try to hide behind the charity. If I wanted to give a charity just 5 bucks I would, and I wouldn't spend another 5 on top of that to do it. Oh, and the charity is only for ~2 months, it isn't permanent.
Third, how in bloody hell do you come to the conclusion that buying 10$ pets will mean no more gold sellers?
And fourth, how is it about time? Was Acti-blizz running out of cash, and had to pay for the servers with their own credit cards and pennies? Hell, I bet you also think every other MMO in existence needs to all become the same game, just because only two other companies are doing it.
I can not wait for blizzard to sell more stuff, i fully support it and will continue to buy what ever they offer, not only me but ill make sure the circle of friends i run with purchase and support it as well :)
I vote 100% on RMT and fully support it
I never said things wouldn't ever go south. I just said that what happened yesterday isn't actually proof of anything and that if people keep losing their minds over things that prove nothing, when real proof emerges, and someone cries foul over it, no one will listen.
Do you seriously believe that by having pre-emptive complaining about a very real possibility, it's going to stop the publishers from listening when they actually do what everybody's afraid they will do? Is that what you're saying Jon?
I love this. People complained about items only in-game grinders could get...the grinder just laughed and said this is their game. No there are items for real life grinders that actually make money and buy items the in-game grinders can not get. Now the ingame grinders get to cry while the people with jobs just laugh.
I'm not at all into RMT, but that is a funny point you bring up.
This.
Jon was biased and rude in his tone.
Does Blizzard advertise on this site?
THEN DON'T BUY THEM...NO ONE SAID YOU HAD TO...GEEEZ!!!
Meh.
Thats all I really have to say.
If they want to sell items such as non-combat pets and other cosmetic fluff items, more power to them. If people want to spend the money on these fluff items, then by all means go for it. Its not going to break the game or give someone a 1 up over anyone else.
"OMG not cool! He has the Monk pet! My whole game experience is ruined!" /nerdragequit.
Its not like they are selling Tier armor or potions of uberness.
When they do though, then you could have something to complain about. Untill that time comes...
Meh.
THEN DON'T BUY THEM...NO ONE SAID YOU HAD TO...GEEEZ!!!
but if they do not they will not be 'cool' any more.
I never said things wouldn't ever go south. I just said that what happened yesterday isn't actually proof of anything and that if people keep losing their minds over things that prove nothing, when real proof emerges, and someone cries foul over it, no one will listen.
Things like this (charging subscription fee AND RMTs) rarely happen in big steps. Champion Online started with worthless, fluff items but then now recently introduced a free respec.
That is how it starts, harmless things at first, but later more and more are sneaked in. Just wait and see...
THEN DON'T BUY THEM...NO ONE SAID YOU HAD TO...GEEEZ!!!
Noone said you have to play WoW or MMORPG either, that is not the point. The point is that MMORPG devs are now starting to introduce subscriptions and RMTs and the only ones getting screwed will be us customers.
Well, you already included something I was going to call you in your own post, so I wont bother re-typing it.
First off, ONE pet, just one, is having half its profits going to charity, not both.
Two, its ten bucks, don't try to hide behind the charity. If I wanted to give a charity just 5 bucks I would, and I wouldn't spend another 5 on top of that to do it. Oh, and the charity is only for ~2 months, it isn't permanent.
Third, how in bloody hell do you come to the conclusion that buying 10$ pets will mean no more gold sellers?
And fourth, how is it about time? Was Acti-blizz running out of cash, and had to pay for the servers with their own credit cards and pennies? Hell, I bet you also think every other MMO in existence needs to all become the same game, just because only two other companies are doing it.
I been playing WoW the better part of 5 years and this game has been nerfed to make items so easy to get it would just as well if Blizzard decided to let us buy Tier Gear instead of earn it. Just let me say to see a company take the time to actually promote a charity is well worth the extra 5 bucks they will need to cover the extra bandwith and bank charges that will be associated with the usage of credit cards. Knowing the charity will get the full 5 bucks per donation rather than the 1.50 left over after all the charges of using a credit card are taken out when you donate directly to the charity makes it that much more and just to note you that cannot read they have the bear and the Mini KT so learn math that is 2 not one pet.
I have seen so many changes and ranted against so many of them over the years I have finally gone to the point I just gave up and decided I can either move a long with the changes or not play the game, if it is not a game interfering issue we can bitch all we want it will not stop it from happening.
My advise, either pay 10 bucks and let 5 go to charity or don't pay 10 bucks, the bottom line is it is your choice to do it or not to do it. I just really find it funny how this much BS never happened when they made all the raw cash off the Pepsi / Mountain Dew promo last summer.
I have a better idea. Quit WoW, donate $10 to the make a wish foundation and play a sub based MMO without a cash shop.
That's probably the best thing you can do to show Blizzard (and maybe some other game companies thinking of doing this) where you stand on the issue. Plus giving to charity for the sake of giving, and not just to get some stupid little toy or pet, is always good too.
Noone said you have to play WoW or MMORPG either, that is not the point. The point is that MMORPG devs are now starting to introduce subscriptions and RMTs and the only ones getting screwed will be us customers.
This is true but only as long as we don't have a choice. There are still companies out there that offer subscription based without a cash shop...although the future does look bleak indeed.
I never said things wouldn't ever go south. I just said that what happened yesterday isn't actually proof of anything and that if people keep losing their minds over things that prove nothing, when real proof emerges, and someone cries foul over it, no one will listen.
if no one cries over it now you can bet there will be a reason to cry later.
double post
And what is anyone going to do about it?
Absolutely. Nothing.
Or...stop playing MMOs? Best of luck to ya.
The rantings of people that are not only addicted to a genre of games, but when not gaming, must sit on forums discussing those games...they know when they got someone hooked. And if someone isn't subscribed, and complaining about it...why would Blizzard care about non-customers?
You're doing more than giving them a free pass - you're telling us there's nothing to get worked up about.
Does Blizzard advertise on this site?
but if they do not they will not be 'cool' any more.
HAHAHA!!!!...If that's what it takes for them to be 'cool', they have bigger underlying problems than that...
I will gladly sell used condoms to anyone who wants to buy one for $10. It's not a rip off because i'm going to give 50% of that to charity!
Anyone who has been following WOW for the last few years will know that they have consistantly changed their attitude to certain procedures we were assured would never ever happen. I just know this wont be the last RMT for in game items Blizzard announce. This is only the beginning!
I am extremely disappointed Blizzard have gone down this route!
ps. does anyone else suspect that the money grab techniques brought in over the last year or so, is to help project WOW's income as growing, to hide failing subscription revenues?
Bravo, i completly agree with you...
The thing is that the average age of a WoW player probably has the mentality of an 11yr old, even if some are biologically 40... this mentality is proven by the gross over-reaction and poorly spelt hate messages towards Blizzard... I guess the only reason they're venting their anger on forums is because their parents wont let them stay up late to protest outside Blizzard HQ. lol
Nonsense. Those who look at this and start foaming and frothing at the mouth, are the leading edge of one of the problems facing the industry. That being that you have forgotten that this is a GAME. Its an option, not a necessity. The same goes for this site. and this particular writer. Might I suggest that if you find either offensive, that you not participate? As for the charge of "double dipping", no one is forcing anyone to purchase those *vanity* pets. Nor any of the other services that are offered. None of them are necessary for enjoyment of the game.
I find it weird how this gets ripped on and it is going to a charity but yet there was no big press blow out when you had to buy trading cards to get the in game items, or the Pepsi / Mountain Dew robots and I have never seen it blown up how you have to pay all that cash for Blizzcon tickets to get a murloc or a bear with a murloc on it's head so why does it have to be a charity event to get the press and start everyone hating on it?
I DEMAND A RETRACTION AND AN APPOLOGY TO THE CHARITY!
Noone said you have to play WoW or MMORPG either, that is not the point. The point is that MMORPG devs are now starting to introduce subscriptions and RMTs and the only ones getting screwed will be us customers.
If you're talking to me...I'm not the one that has a problem with it, I can kill all my subscriptions and I'd be just fine. So, with that in mind...that is the point, It's my choice
. You almost had it right with the first sentence, no one said I had to play any of them.
good article and conclusions.
I find it weird how this gets ripped on and it is going to a charity but yet there was no big press blow out when you had to buy trading cards to get the in game items, or the Pepsi / Mountain Dew robots and I have never seen it blown up how you have to pay all that cash for Blizzcon tickets to get a murloc or a bear with a murloc on it's head so why does it have to be a charity event to get the press and start everyone hating on it?
I DEMAND A RETRACTION AND AN APPOLOGY TO THE CHARITY!
Some people did moan about the TCG, but then again, the TCG is a stand-alone product, that they chose to incorporate some things (mainly fluff like biscuits, fiery steps, and the like) to try and get WoW players to try the card game out, I dont need to play WoW to like a Warcraft-based card game.
The Battle-fuel bots were part of the promotion for the WoW-inspired Mountain Dew Horde and Alliance drinks, it cost NOTHING to get the pet bot.
Blizzcon tickets are also a stand-alone thing. YOU dont have to go to Blizzcon, its just Blizzards way of saying "thanks for spending the money to come here", on top of EVERYTHING else that comes with the tickets.
Nonsense. Those who look at this and start foaming and frothing at the mouth, are the leading edge of one of the problems facing the industry. That being that you have forgotten that this is a GAME. Its an option, not a necessity. The same goes for this site. and this particular writer. Might I suggest that if you find either offensive, that you not participate? As for the charge of "double dipping", no one is forcing anyone to purchase those *vanity* pets. Nor any of the other services that are offered. None of them are necessary for enjoyment of the game.
There is clearly a divide between the readers here. In one corner you have people accepting Blizzard's new RMT model as a positive and it won't effect them in any way plus a bonus of blizzard giving 25% of the proceeds to charity (1 of 2 pets). In the other corner you have people who are very upset because they can clearly see the road ahead with Blizzard filling the store full of epics etc and how a subscription based payment model using RMT will be copied by every other company in the genre.
You make the false assumption that Blizzard is the first to have done this. Fact of the matter is, Blizzard is following a trend that was already there, and there have already been people saying they were willing to pay extra for vanity items.
Do I believe Blizzard will go and start selling gear? No, not at all. Frankly, they've made it so it's incredibly easy for anyone to get geared in a short amount of time as long as they play. And that's what Blizzard really wants. People playing.
No. They want people PAYING. If they wanted people playing, those pets would be a quest reward. You can't play to get them, you have to pay.
You can come back and feed me my own hat if they do decide to sell gear, but I'm willing to bet they won't. There's no reason to, and likely won't ever be a reason to.
They will - and I hope you are roasted like the other deniers when it happens.
I never said things wouldn't ever go south. I just said that what happened yesterday isn't actually proof of anything and that if people keep losing their minds over things that prove nothing, when real proof emerges, and someone cries foul over it, no one will listen.
Are you seriously suggesting that the introduction of a microtransaction cash shop is not evidence that things are heading south? Right, and high brazil wasn't sinking either.
Two days ago the likelyhood of blizzard directly selling in game items [of ANY magntitude] was closer to zero than it was yesterday. In fact blizzard is no longer in the category of companies that might directly sell items, because now they clearly do and they.
That is a gigantic step towards things heading south, as you put it. Not to mention that almost every other game that has gone this route has indeed headed south with the items they introduce in their cash shops. You suggesting people not worry or "cry wolf" is rediculous to say the least. People now need to look at the direction other games have gone with their cash shops as it is the likely path blizzard will follow. You know, just like they added a cash shop yesterday.
Suggesting apathy as a course of action until things get bad is a really naive suggestion.
I can't even believe I have to explain this to people on this forum, let alone you. I just can't shake the image of you sitting on top of high brazil.
I'm rather amused by all the hysterics of people who seem to think that Blizzard is some sort of non-profit. I liked the article.
Vanity pets are not really an issue. I don't really see what all the stinking fuss is all about. I mean sure.. $10 bucks for a vanity pet is kinda expensive..they're there as an option for people who wanted them and collects this sort of thing..if you don't want it.. don't buy it.... I'd save up all the fuzzing if when Blizzard starts selling purple/legendary epic weapons for RL cash.
Regardless of whether or not the reaction is justified, it is interesting how something as innocuous as two measly little pets have stirred up such a fuss. That tells me that people are VERY touchy about RMT in subscription games. Not to take anything away from this article, but I'd love to see a MMORPG columnist take a real in-depth look at RMT in subscription games and what it means for those games and for players.
Lame, old arguments combined and transformed into a semi-fancy worded article by someone who does not matter at all.
Anyone could write the same, in fact, they did, but their opinions don't shout as loud as those of a guy whose job is to write for an MMO website in boring and uncatchy English.
Now he would think that his reference between micro-transaction and zebra is smart, but it's a horrible analysis. People don't compare the announcement to the micro-transaction, they assume that the announcement LEADS to transaction, this guy is writing a column here for a reason, and it might just be too obvious for me to even talk about.
Sorry if the focus of this post is shifted, what I want to say was, it's obvious that people over-reacted to the announcement, but on the other hand, this guy is no genius, anyone could have figured this out without his awesome column. On the other hand, who is he to disprove the other argument without further proof? Continuously comparing components of WoW to movie tickets and apples and zebra doesn't prove that your argument is any more accurate than the opposing reasoning, so this mighty Jon Wood is just another forum poster, in my goddamn opinion. SORRY "MY FRIEND".
Nothing in the game is 'free', because the players are already paying for it - with their subscription fees.
Nothing in the game is 'free', because the players are already paying for it - with their subscription fees.
Yea, and now they are allowing people to get some non-essential extra fluff easier by just paying a little extra. Big whoop.
Nothing in the game is 'free', because the players are already paying for it - with their subscription fees.
Players said they would pay for stuff, so blizzard put stuff for them to buy, its the players fault not blizzards.
Again, who cares about how other people spend their money? If Blizzard wants to charge a $100 for a mini Bill Gates pet, people will buy it and you will get to see who has more money than brains. All this does is point out the suckers
No, it has another effect - it encourages more and more of the content which used to be included in the GAME to be put in the SHOP instead.
Noone said you have to play WoW or MMORPG either, that is not the point. The point is that MMORPG devs are now starting to introduce subscriptions and RMTs and the only ones getting screwed will be us customers.
Only if you allow it. Unlike the government, who have legions of well armed enforcers to back up their dictates. If a given game, or industry doesn't suit you, take your time and money to one that does.
Seems like something Zorndorf would write. I think its insane that Jon does not see what the problem is and the popcorn anology is really stupid.
Charing $10 for a stupid pet in a game where you pay for the box + expansions + a monthly fee is beyond greedy. And when one of the most loved companies does it, its even worse. That the pets are just cosmetic is irrelevant.
And trying to justify it by giving away 50% of ONE of the pets for charity makes it even worse.
Took awhile for me to realize it but Blizzard does no longer exist :(
Players said they would pay for stuff, so blizzard put stuff for them to buy, its the players fault not blizzards.
You know, I've always wondered when they asked us WoWers if we would pay for stuff, cause I definitely never got a memo about it.
Yea, and now they are allowing people to get some non-essential extra fluff easier by just paying a little extra. Big whoop.
Yes and tomorrow you gonna be able to buy a full set of T8 Epic Armor.
This is a movie already seen somewhere else, it starts with fluff stuff and it ends with the real deal.
Wake up will ya?
Players said they would pay for stuff, so blizzard put stuff for them to buy, its the players fault not blizzards.
You know, I've always wondered when they asked us WoWers if we would pay for stuff, cause I definitely never got a memo about it.
They didn't ask, people on the official boards are always saying they will pay for this and that, i blame them. if they are willing to pay i can't blame a company for saying okay!
Lame, old arguments combined and transformed into a semi-fancy worded article by someone who does not matter at all.
Anyone could write the same, in fact, they did, but their opinions don't shout as loud as those of a guy whose job is to write for an MMO website in boring and uncatchy English.
Now he would think that his reference between micro-transaction and zebra is smart, but it's a horrible analysis. People don't compare the announcement to the micro-transaction, they assume that the announcement LEADS to transaction, this guy is writing a column here for a reason, and it might just be too obvious for me to even talk about.
Sorry if the focus of this post is shifted, what I want to say was, it's obvious that people over-reacted to the announcement, but on the other hand, this guy is no genius, anyone could have figured this out without his awesome column. On the other hand, who is he to disprove the other argument without further proof? Continuously comparing components of WoW to movie tickets and apples and zebra doesn't prove that your argument is any more accurate than the opposing reasoning, so this mighty Jon Wood is just another forum poster, in my goddamn opinion. SORRY "MY FRIEND".
Your first sentence applies to you as well... Neither do I for that matter. Blizzard is a multi BILLION dollar corporation at this point. They have demonstrated that they have a very keen sense of what makes them money. Losing a small percentage of players over something trival like this, isn't even going to show up above the normal churn for them.
Welcome to the world of columns and opinion pieces.
And for the record, the entire article revolves around the encroachment of a different revenue model into the Western MMO market, and how in some cases people over-react to them. This over-reaction to harmless additions is indeed making it easier and easier for those powers that be to ignore the voices of their players. This, in turn, will make it easier for companies to get away with less scrupulous behavior. Who's going to listen to the boy who cried wolf when a wolf actually appears if they've pointed at every house dog that's walked by and screamed bloody murder?
But yeah, it was probably just an un-thought out nerdrage.
No ,i did not se anything helpfull implementation about "new revenue model " what i see is blizz doing a charity it is harmless dont discuss and STFU approach ,if you think adding a new revenue model and harmless additions opposite things .Make your mind is this a new revenue model for blizz or not.
Like or not there are alot people dont like any kind of RMT/micro transactions at subscription games (excluding F2P micro transactions game ,they have more haters) on mmorpg.com and every time when something like this happened it discussed to hell and beyond ,do you remember SOE item shop or SWG :TOR micro transaction rage ?
Question is why suddenly there is a column and opipion pieces ,why this came when blizz announced their shop but not for other companies?Double standards ,hypocrisy? Or why is this column defending blizz (i would not mind if other games defended before) ?
Some people did moan about the TCG, but then again, the TCG is a stand-alone product, that they chose to incorporate some things (mainly fluff like biscuits, fiery steps, and the like) to try and get WoW players to try the card game out, I dont need to play WoW to like a Warcraft-based card game.
The Battle-fuel bots were part of the promotion for the WoW-inspired Mountain Dew Horde and Alliance drinks, it cost NOTHING to get the pet bot.
Blizzcon tickets are also a stand-alone thing. YOU dont have to go to Blizzcon, its just Blizzards way of saying "thanks for spending the money to come here", on top of EVERYTHING else that comes with the tickets.
Money spent to obtain in-game items is money spent I just do not understand why all this hate is drawn towards something that is going to help a charity when none of the other were blow up to be this big of a deal. You "spent money" to buy the Dew to get the robot in game, you "spent money" to buy the Trading Cards to get items in game, you "spent money" to buy the Blizzcon tickets to get the murloc or bear mount. It is no different here you are "spending money" BUT instead of Blizz pocketing all of it the Make A Wish Foundation gets some, so I still cannot understand the hate being show so much towards this and not towards the other things. Is it the fact that all these people actually hate the fact a child who may die at a really young age may get a wish granted to them that is causing all this hate to be shown or is it jealousy that is driving this hate fiasco? The fact that I have a son with Autism I will proudly show my support for the Make a Wish Foundation by displaying these on ALL my accounts, I am not afraid to show in public that I supported a charity and no we never used his Wish option as there are many more children out there who will die that the funding will go towards giving them their wish, we are just fortunate our son's illness is chronic not terminal.
I do want to thank the haters because publicity for a non-profit organization like Make-A-Wish is getting by keeping this thread moving is awesome and all the money being raised by this hate by people who never knew about these pets but now know and are buying them is worth millions.
Yea, and now they are allowing people to get some non-essential extra fluff easier by just paying a little extra. Big whoop.
Yes and tomorrow you gonna be able to buy a full set of T8 Epic Armor.
This is a movie already seen somewhere else, it starts with fluff stuff and it ends with the real deal.
Wake up will ya?
if they do i'll just go play something else, see no drama at all, woot!
Players said they would pay for stuff, so blizzard put stuff for them to buy, its the players fault not blizzards.
You know, I've always wondered when they asked us WoWers if we would pay for stuff, cause I definitely never got a memo about it.
When you bought the game. Blizzard is a frickin for-profit business, with investors, and a bottom line. If you don't like their product, you are free to cancel your subscription to their product.
Christ, where do you get the impression that Blizzard has EVER been some kindly studio that cares more about being cheap for you then their own profits? How naive.
Oh, we'll see how small the percentage is. We'll see.
In the early '80s, the bottom dropped out of the home video game industry. It CAN happen here.
Blizzard needs to be very careful here. Trust is a hard thing to re-earn after losing it. If Blizz introduces a full RMT model for things like gear, etc you will hear a "disturbance" that would make SWG NGE or Trammel to UO's outrage seem like a whisper.
Players don't forget and seldom forgive. If something like that happens then nevermind about WoW, Blizzard really should be worrying about the success of their next title.
I have already crossed off SC2, D3, and the next Blizzard MMO, unless this move is backed away from.
Best editorial I´ve read on this site!! Keep ut the good work!
well i see some people upset about it around here and a few on the official forums, but by the amount of lil kt's and pandarans running around the servers now, especially mine, there were a lot of them, i think its safe to say its a success for blizzard.
Hmm I wonder if its a cultural thing if you accept what Blizzard is doing or not.
Maybe its harder for us Europeans, who are more socialists, to accept that companies are just motivated by greed. And for you Americans its not a big deal since capitalism is more natural for you.
(sorry this was just a thought dont want to turn this into a political debate ;))
Oh, we'll see how small the percentage is. We'll see.
In the early '80s, the bottom dropped out of the home video game industry. It CAN happen here.
Oh please. If you think the average casual gamer cares at all that Blizzard is setting up a way to buy some useless bonus pets, your kidding yourself.
I have already crossed off SC2, D3, and the next Blizzard MMO, unless this move is backed away from.
Apparently from what I have been hearing there will be a "free" option for people to play on battlenet servers and there will also be a payment option on battlenet as well. If Blizzard does the sub+rmt model for their new mmo I will not be playing that either.
Hey I'm a Canadian and if anyone cannot see that any company who makes it big is not powered by money and greed they need to sit back and think a long while on the things that are called stock markets and investors. eg. company no make big money, company no investors, no investors, company go broke and close.
Yep there it is ABC or 123 it is not that hard to understand just some cannot grab the concept that the guy in front of you at a convention or on a forum that says we will never do this does not call the shots and they have no more say in if it will be done than the guy who is still only thinking about buying the game.
The main issue that Mr Wood fails to understand is that charging us for extra items on top of a subscription is what gets us players so upset.
In a game like DDO, which is now F2P, I have no problem with them charging me to buy "points" which in turn buys various ingame items. After all, they are getting no money from me on a regular basis, so need some way to gather some funds.
Yet Blizzard charges you to buy the game, charges you to buy the expansions, charges you money to continue playing AND now wants to charge you even more? THAT is what gets players so upset. Especially considering the enormous amount of money they get monthly from subscription fees alone.
Why are people condemning Blizzard (well vivendi, Blizzard are the developers, vivendi are bankers) for something they have not done, and
probablywill never do.You cannot buy gear, xp bonuses or characters on the store, just 2 vanity pets. Just because you think something will happen does not mean it will.
Ill be the first in line to burn an effigy of Blizzard IF they add gear and game changing items, but as im 99.9% sure it wont ever happen Im not running around in a full NERGRAGE.
Blizzard/vivendi are a business, their #1 goal is to make money just like Turbin,SOE,NCSOFT and any other developer/publisher you care to mention. Blizzard are not charity and just because they have more money than other developers it does not mean they have to give it all away to charity, have lower subscription fees or free Expansions.
They are develping WoW,SC2,D3,Bnet2.0 and the mystery MMO it all takes money folks and the quality blizzard demand if not cheap.
Get over it.
You're making pretty far reaching assumptions here. I mean, sure I suppose this COULD be leading to something more, but I don't think that just because that possibility exists that everyone should assume it to be the case. Looking rationally at this and the other RMT that Blizzard offers like the various change to character options that players have, a pattern seems to indicate that the company's plan is to offer aesthetic options only.
Your statements, said rationally and in an informed way as they were, about the possibility existing that companies might take advantage of something like this are perfectly valid. You said it, you backed it up and made people aware of a possibility. you didn't rage at the top of your virtual lungs.
using the boy who cried wolf analogy: You said - hey guys, there might be wolves in this area so watch out. You didn't say - Sweet jebus, a WOLF! RUUUNNNNN!!!!
I'm not saying that Blizzard won't turn around one day and open a full blown cash shop. I'm just saying that the time to bang on pots and pans, hit panic buttons and scream as loudly as possible hasn't come yet and the more often people do all of those things on this subject, the less effective it becomes.
Yeah, and I can agree that as it is those two items don't seem like they affect gameplay thus my conservation of my limited "sweet jebus'", lol. That said, and knowing full well that game companies do not prioritize customer wants over what they perceive will elevate their bottom line (and I'm not judging that fact; it's just a fact), it's up to us to exam all angles of possibility from certain actions.
To sit idly and without analytical thought (and not the Jamestown paranoia) on what those action could turn into and then evaluate what our own response would be should that happen seems a justifiable course to me. I know that I personally would play a game with RMT at this point (that's not meant that I might change my mind but instead to show that I have previously played such a game) and working out my actions, even if on a forum, isn't a etiquette faux paux if voiced in a reasonable way. I get what you mean about all the "sky is falling" and "end of MMO gaming" posts, though. Those would be better suited if they just read "Well, if Blizzard starts selling "useful" items I'll cancel" or "This action concerns me and I'm going to cancel".
People love the dramatic, though.
Apparently from what I have been hearing there will be a "free" option for people to play on battlenet servers and there will also be a payment option on battlenet as well. If Blizzard does the sub+rmt model for their new mmo I will not be playing that either.
BNet 2.0 is 100% free to play on. However Blizzard will be adding an "app style store" where map and mod developers and chose to add a fee to their creations of which blizzard will take a %. I was wary of this when they said it but then they showed the games that can be made with the SC2 engine, they has a FPS (SC:GHOST) and a Top down R-Type style game. video: http://diablo3x.com/starcraft-2-editor-video-preview
Dear lord, they are VANITY PETS. They are extras. Just DON'T BUY THE PETS, your experience will be exactly the same.
Because they are charging $10 for things that should be included in the box+monthly sub price...
How hard is it to understand? Its all about getting as much money out of your fans as possible for Blizzard now.
If this wasnt a big deal for people then Blizzard wouldnt have waited so long to add it. They have slowly been moving in this direction for a long time but not untill now they have added RMT so openly. And no somebody have to cry wolf before all the sheep have been killed :D
Hey I'm a Canadian and if anyone cannot see that any company who makes it big is not powered by money and greed they need to sit back and think a long while on the things that are called stock markets and investors. eg. company no make big money, company no investors, no investors, company go broke and close.
Yep there it is ABC or 123 it is not that hard to understand just some cannot grab the concept that the guy in front of you at a convention or on a forum that says we will never do this does not call the shots and they have no more say in if it will be done than the guy who is still only thinking about buying the game.
Yea, im from Mexico, ever heard of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs? Unlike most RMT games which rely on high turnover, WOW depends on keeping a loyal customer base. Yea, few people will quit over this (although there'll be some) but the slow drip of players will continue.
If bussiness is bottomline then why go through the trouble of introducing a cash shop just to sell a couple of pets? Oh, but you people seem to be alright with vanity items so a whole zoo shouldnt make a difference. Yea, Blizzard will continue to try and squeeze every red cent they can out of you and you dont realize that by consenting to this youre killing your precious WOW. Theyre gonna milk this cow before it goes to slaughter.
Yea, im from Mexico, ever heard of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs? Unlike most RMT games which rely on high turnover, WOW depends on keeping a loyal customer base. Yea, few people will quit over this (although there'll be some) but the slow drip of players will continue.
If bussiness is bottomline then why go through the trouble of introducing a cash shop just to sell a couple of pets? Oh, but you people seem to be alright with vanity items so a whole zoo shouldnt make a difference. Yea, Blizzard will continue to try and squeeze any red cent they can out of you and you dont realize that by consenting to this youre killing your precious WOW. Theyre gonna milk this cow before it goes to slaughter.
Don't support item shops in sub based games unless you want them to milk you for more money and more items continue to not be included in your sub fee box purchases. Support games that don't have item shops. If this hurts them and does not help them, this practice will end. Don't accept extra charges when you don't have to, send the message with your wallet.
Because they are charging $10 for things that should be included in the box+monthly sub price...
How hard is it to understand? Its all about getting as much money out of your fans as possible for Blizzard now.
If this wasnt a big deal for people then Blizzard wouldnt have waited so long to add it. They have slowly been moving in this direction for a long time but not untill now they have added RMT so openly. And no somebody have to cry wolf before all the sheep have been killed :D
These pets don't effect gameplay in any way. Stop whining.
Apparently from what I have been hearing there will be a "free" option for people to play on battlenet servers and there will also be a payment option on battlenet as well. If Blizzard does the sub+rmt model for their new mmo I will not be playing that either.
I second this.
I am not gonna play any game that has cash shop in it, even if they sell fried air
I just don't like the concept ...........they shoulxd do more to eradicate the gold sellers, lazy bastards, instead of give in and doing it themselves.
Because they are charging $10 for things that should be included in the box+monthly sub price...
How hard is it to understand? Its all about getting as much money out of your fans as possible for Blizzard now.
If this wasnt a big deal for people then Blizzard wouldnt have waited so long to add it. They have slowly been moving in this direction for a long time but not untill now they have added RMT so openly. And no somebody have to cry wolf before all the sheep have been killed :D
The pets and items in the TCG are not included in the box+sub, the pets people get from attending blizzcon are not included in the box+sub so whats your point?
Good to see though that you realise its a money making exercise no one disagrees with that, blizzard need money to continue to make quality products. And guess when I can choose to give blizzard my money.
Blizzard has always been known for creating top quality games above all. True dat! The amount of profit was irrelevant. Doubt that. Profit = new game development. More profit = more, better game development.
These changes are made to create EXTRA money. According to many ( many = greater than 0, less than infinity? So... 3? ) - these changes do not effect game enjoyment. I thought we were worried about "gameplay". There is no doubt these changes effect "enjoyment", else why would people pay for them? And Blizzard of old would then have not accepted things like that into their games. Maybe because no one had ever thought of doing it way back in those mystical mythical times when games were free to make and devs didn't need to eat.
The only purpose of this vanity items is to make EXTRA money. Uh, yeah. "EXTRA" money? You're a socialist, aren't you? Extra money = profit = new game development. Blizzard of old would never have allowed that. Close personal friends are you? Cause true gamers (mythical creatures that loathe money) would add it into the game as part of GAMEPLAY - not to pay extra to enhance gaming enjoyment. You know this because you worked with them on the dev. team, right? RIGHT?
I have always respected Blizzard for their products and I still do. That on the other hand does not mean that the FUTURE products from Blizzard will get my respect. Cause a line has been crossed ( LOOK OUT! DON'T TRIP! ) where EXTRA money has been made more important than the enjoyment of the gamer.
If you haven't noticed, the cost of living is constantly going up. Things are more expensive to produce these days, including software. So, instead of jacking up the monthly sub fee and raising box prices, Blizzard is getting creative and adding new optional items you can buy and services you can use, to help game development. I guess you'd rather pay more per month?
Oh well, so much talk about this issue, might as well as give my opinion that is also on the no-RMT-in-my-P2P side.
A cash shop is still a cash shop, it offers two simple vanity pets, yet it's still a cash shop, currently called the "Pet Store".
It may be just these forums increased hating issues, or there's still people that play the P2P over F2Ps for a reason, but if chaos also happened on social networks and other forums, it means the feeling is there, the P2P genre still exists for a reason that is the people that dislike RMT for virtual goods on a game (another reason why gold selling is illegal in most if not all P2P games and I do not consider EVE's plexes a RMT for that effect, it's an exchange of game time for game money and not simple generated stuff).
Anyway what will make them decide is the lost subs comparison (that they consider lost due to this) over money earned from the pet store. Potentially for every 3 pets sold they can afford the loss of 2 subs. I don't know how the actual player base reaction is (and no, Blizzard forums are not a valid meter as they can and do delete posts that contain negative feedback and they have a very strong moderation presence), especially if it raised an uproar over there too.
You can even sell your pet redeeming code for in-game money.
Your first sentence applies to you as well... Neither do I for that matter. Blizzard is a multi BILLION dollar corporation at this point. They have demonstrated that they have a very keen sense of what makes them money. Losing a small percentage of players over something trival like this, isn't even going to show up above the normal churn for them.
touche',
My writing is better than Jon Wood in my own recognition though.'
And I do agree with you that making some extra money out of an old game at the cost of a small player base is not out of question for Bliz.
The pets and items in the TCG are not included in the box+sub, the pets people get from attending blizzcon are not included in the box+sub so whats your point?
Good to see though that you realise its a money making exercise no one disagrees with that, blizzard need money to continue to make quality products. And guess when I can choose to give blizzard my money.
You are paying for the TCG and get a pet as a bonus... You pay to attend Blizzcon and get a bonus pet.
There is a huge difference from charging $10 for stuff in game that should be payed with the monthly sub and boxes.
If you like this then fine, but stop trying to put down people who dont think that MMO companies should charge RMT ontop of box+expansions+monthly fees. And its bad for the industry imo if the market leader is doing it.
Looks like MMORPG is being paid to help the cause of these MMOs. If you let this slide it only gets worse. Pretty soon ALL cosmetic stuff in games will be "extras" that you have to pay for. Do not support these games with your wallet. Say no and play games that do not do this. Jon Wood is obviously biased. The truth is those items would have been given in the game somehow if the item shop wasn't there for them to drop it in.
Jon gives a analogy with Huggies and Wipes .. . well Jon those diapers never came with wipes in the first place. Those are an additional product. What Blizzard wants is people to start paying extra for items they gotten previously for their sub fee and box purchases. Totally different and people should not support it. Cancel your accounts to show you don't approve. These are tough economical times and we don't need to support the corporate greed. Guess what if this works well for Blizzard it will only spread to every game and no cosmetic items will be obtained in game.
Go to games that still do not support item shops. Cancel now.
The pets and items in the TCG are not included in the box+sub, the pets people get from attending blizzcon are not included in the box+sub so whats your point?
Good to see though that you realise its a money making exercise no one disagrees with that, blizzard need money to continue to make quality products. And guess when I can choose to give blizzard my money.
You are paying for the TCG and get a pet as a bonus... You pay to attend Blizzcon and get a bonus pet.
There is a huge difference from charging $10 for stuff in game that should be payed with the monthly sub and boxes.
If you like this then fine, but stop trying to put down people who dont think that MMO companies should charge RMT ontop of box+expansions+monthly fees. And its bad for the industry imo if the market leader is doing it.
As an EQ2 player: Muahahaha! Welcome to the club.
Selling cosmetic stuff for real money in a P2P game is a ripp off. Blizzard if anyone should afford to add features like this for free.
It seems like MMO companies all over are getting more and more greedy, but adding stuff like this is actually dangerous. If both F2P games and P2P games have RMT shops, why would anyone prefer P2P? The P2 games are still more solid but some games like DDO will be the real winner here.
Guildwars 2 will dominate the market if the other publishers keeps acting like this.
To be honest I do not think I have ever seen this much bitching about people bitching.
I have already crossed off SC2, D3, and the next Blizzard MMO, unless this move is backed away from.
You and other like minded individuals comprise a TINY percentage of the player base. In the grand scheme of things, your presence and money will not be missed. This is trival, and if you allow it to deprive you of the enjoyment of the next few games, you have only yourself to blame.
Perspective is indeed the key here. But make no mistake about it, certain aspects of the American economy are every bit as socialist(or in some cases fascist) as those of Europe. This hysteria about a trival matter is just another example of symbolism over substance, Not to mention I have yet to see someone supply a non subjective definition of "greed". It almost always translates to either "you have more than I do" or "You have more than I believe you should have". Neither are valid, and rely on appeals to emotion rather than reason.
And people bitching, about the people who are bitching, about the people bitching here?
The pets and items in the TCG are not included in the box+sub, the pets people get from attending blizzcon are not included in the box+sub so whats your point?
Good to see though that you realise its a money making exercise no one disagrees with that, blizzard need money to continue to make quality products. And guess when I can choose to give blizzard my money.
You are paying for the TCG and get a pet as a bonus... You pay to attend Blizzcon and get a bonus pet.
There is a huge difference from charging $10 for stuff in game that should be payed with the monthly sub and boxes.
If you like this then fine, but stop trying to put down people who dont think that MMO companies should charge RMT ontop of box+expansions+monthly fees. And its bad for the industry imo if the market leader is doing it.
That made me laugh. Blizzard can do whatever they want. It isn't somehow wrong for Blizzard to make bonus content and actually charge money for it, its just a business decision. If you don't like it, quit. You aren't somehow entitled to extra content that doesn't affect gameplay.
This thread is just too funny.
could nt have put it better myself . while this is only a couple of pets you would have to be a little bit nieve to think it will stop here . its not really just about the items its about the line thats been crossed .
You and other like minded individuals comprise a TINY percentage of the player base. In the grand scheme of things, your presence and money will not be missed. This is trival, and if you allow it to deprive you of the enjoyment of the next few games, you have only yourself to blame.
Devil's advocate: Where is your statistical data that shows what exactly that percentage is? (Rhetorical question as you don't have any)
Fact of the matter is none of us know how this will affect those game sales until they happen and even then there isn't a way to measure how many people would have purchased the games but decided not to because of this move. A look can be taken by Blizzard internally comparing their average weekly or monthly loss of accounts and then compare them to the data gathered after this announcement. Of course, they aren't going to share that information with us if it's negative. If it's positive they will because companies (ahem, SOE) like to pat themselves on the back if a "controversial" move earns a profit.
So if we hear from Blizzard how well the shops do with lots of fireworks and faire, then it worked. Unless they lie to save face. If we don't hear from them, then they lost more account income than the shops could replace. Maybe, lol! Speculation keeps forums alive!
Think the little carebear fella got a bit excited about the thread...
Anyway, i wanted to address this whole notion of companies making the money to develop more games. That's bull. If im paying a sub is so the game i'm on will get updated and that i'll be receiving adequate customer service. I don't have to finance a company's next venture, specially not without getting a share. If a company makes enough PROFIT of one product its their call how they reinvest that, but no concern of mine. We are all paying for a service, and in full, so please stop those arguments about companies "needing" money to finance games. We shouldn't be footing the bill for that and they will charge us for the box whenever they do come out with something new.
People look at it as greed simply because WOW is not hurting for extra income. Companies like SOE made these moves in a lot of peoples opinion because they were financially hurting. You can not say that in Blizzards case. Personally if they want to give to a charity, why ask for their players to pay? Why not take it off the top of what they already receive from them? That is the essence of greed, IMO. They are a business and the backbone of big business is greed, i.e. taking more than you give.
As for the vanity fair in question, I personally do not care. Only when a company takes SOE or Cryptic type steps does it concern me. I do feel it is best to voice an opinion before such takes place rather than after.
And people bitching, about the people who are bitching, about the people bitching here?
Something like that
.
People look at it as greed simply because WOW is not hurting for extra income. Companies like SOE made these moves in a lot of peoples opinion because they were financially hurting. You can not say that in Blizzards case. Personally if they want to give to a charity, why ask for their players to pay? Why not take it off the top of what they already receive from them? That is the essence of greed, IMO. They are a business and the backbone of big business is greed, i.e. taking more than you give.
As for the vanity fair in question, I personally do not care. Only when a company takes SOE or Cryptic type steps does it concern me. I do feel it is best to voice an opinion before such takes place rather than after.
Why should Blizzard wait until their financially hurting to maximize their profits? This sense of entitlement some people here have is so amusing, but so stupid...
Why should Blizzard wait until their financially hurting to maximize their profits? This sense of entitlement some people here have is so amusing, but so stupid...
Who said they should? I was merely answering a question with an opinion on why I think people may be upset. What sense of entitlement are you referring to in my post?
Wonderful article.
But the vast majority of those who read it will have to first remove their head from their own ass before they are able to comprehend what it actually means.
99.9% of gamers are retarded.
Protest charity!
Idiots.
As long as they are only peddling cosmetic items/changes/etc then who cares? It doesn't effect gameplay or "balance".
It absolutely would be foolish to expand the system to selling things that make your character more powerful. That would be crossing the line. And Blizzard knows that or they would have done it already. If that does happen, that is when everyone should be in an uproar. This ridiculas over reaction to a completely optional feature that does not impact your character's standing in the game (well, someone might laugh at you if you have one of these pets) is uncalled for.
Save your righteous indignation for when it is actually justified.
Who is protesting charity? I doubt you would see any bitching at all, if they were giving 100% of both pets to charity. Way to take peoples opinions completely out of context, and +1 more for calling them the idiots.
It absolutely would be foolish to expand the system to selling things that make your character more powerful. That would be crossing the line. And Blizzard knows that or they would have done it already. If that does happen, that is when everyone should be in an uproar. This ridiculas over reaction to a completely optional feature that does not impact your character's standing in the game (well, someone might laugh at you if you have one of these pets) is uncalled for.
Save your righteous indignation for when it is actually justified.
Well, once upon a time in a faraway timeline there was some talk about the inviability of Race Transfers... oh wait, they are here.
There was also this minor genre variation... F2P online games that only sold cosmetic items... until a later update, yet WoW can now be compared to those games prior to the non-cosmetic cash shop update, but with a monthly subscription.
Some people simply have a perspective of what a certain feature may lead to in the future, and that's why those people believe the line has been crossed (in addition to those who also believed they had crossed the line with TCG loot cards). Anyway the days of AAA games being fixed-expense will eventually be gone in the name of profit at this pace that has been going for some years already, the shopping mall virtual MMOs (don't feel like calling them MMORPGs as true RPG advancement was never tied to money spent IMO).
Please, this RMT QQ only feeds Robert Kotick's insatiable hunger.
Coming from a developer standpoint, of which I am.
This only opens the market to a wider audience of players, some who may have hesitated due to subscription fees on top of a box fee. The point of a company is to make as much as money as possible, if they are product based, they do this by making their product accessible to the largest market possible. Currently, for MMO players it is for those who will pay $15 a month, which is a very small portion of the gaming community to virtually every PC and some lucky XBOX/PS3 players.
Look at the population of Korea, a very large percentage of the population plays video games. Not only that, but they do this with ONLY micro-transactions clearly a sign that it works and that the gaming industry over their is flourishing. I mention Korea they more technologically advanced in terms of internet (1gb/s by 2012) - 14 out of 15 million inhabitants have access to internet in their homes . Internet gaming is huge, there are approximately 20,000 internet cafes in South Korea, which is slightly larger than the state of Indiana.
Don't judge the quality of RMT games from Korea to those of the future that emerge from the West. Games are tailored fort he population of which they are created for. In many cases we see Korean games localized to English for Western audience. While many players on the MMORPG.com forums may not enjoy them or think they are lacking is a point of perspective that is unnecessary. These games are clearly profitable enough for them to continue localizing and if they are profitable, clearly people are playing them and buying items or other services.
So whether you like it or not RMT will inevitably become the future, CCP sees it for Dust514 (and already has a form of it in EVE), Blizzard sees it (already has some too), BioWare has some for Dragon Age: Origins, ArenaNet has some for GuildWars. Don't you make yourself look stupid for thinking otherwise.
15 pages, and 215 comments, and the truth is apparent; gamers in this genre deep down realize that Blizzard rules the roost.
How much did you donate this year in charity?
Let me guess..............zero dollars.
So you are waiting for Blizzard to start, what stops you going to your nearest Charity Shop and donate a bit of your hard earned cash?
Blizzard introduced the RMT with the charity attached, so naive people like you would not noticed the cash shop as such, then when the charity thing finishes, you still won't notice it, but they will start selling items from 100% profit.
They will keep introducing more and more stuff in small steps so you keep not noticing it.
When they will end up selling entire T8 Epic Armors you still won't notice it.
So Blizzard will have achieved its goal to introduce full RMT without causing any uproar and that's all because people like you which are so simple not to see beyond the charity thing.
The point is not the charity, it's the fact they use charity to throw smoke on your face and cover the fact they are actually launching a cash shop which they gonna use for other purposes after that..........and people like you fall for it.
So who is the stupid............
Any company with a large following does, even the oh so evil SOE has an influence on the overall market. Hello captain obvious....
Money spent to obtain in-game items is money spent I just do not understand why all this hate is drawn towards something that is going to help a charity when none of the other were blow up to be this big of a deal. You "spent money" to buy the Dew to get the robot in game, you "spent money" to buy the Trading Cards to get items in game, you "spent money" to buy the Blizzcon tickets to get the murloc or bear mount. It is no different here you are "spending money" BUT instead of Blizz pocketing all of it the Make A Wish Foundation gets some, so I still cannot understand the hate being show so much towards this and not towards the other things. Is it the fact that all these people actually hate the fact a child who may die at a really young age may get a wish granted to them that is causing all this hate to be shown or is it jealousy that is driving this hate fiasco? The fact that I have a son with Autism I will proudly show my support for the Make a Wish Foundation by displaying these on ALL my accounts, I am not afraid to show in public that I supported a charity and no we never used his Wish option as there are many more children out there who will die that the funding will go towards giving them their wish, we are just fortunate our son's illness is chronic not terminal.
I do want to thank the haters because publicity for a non-profit organization like Make-A-Wish is getting by keeping this thread moving is awesome and all the money being raised by this hate by people who never knew about these pets but now know and are buying them is worth millions.
Okay, let me state this again.
I bought mountain dew not because of Blizz, but because I like it, and have drank it long before WoW was a twinkle in their eyes. You didn't have to pay jack shit for the battlebot, you just had to go to the site and click on the "I want" button, thats it.
Blizzcon isn't WoWcon, they do cover more than just WoW, despite what your narrow view thinks. And trust me, no one spent 150+ dollars JUST for the mount, no, they spent that so they could go and see what all Blizzard had in development, and wanted to see it in person.
And as stated several times, the Card game is a stand-alone product endorsed BY Blizzard. People buy those cards cause they enjoy it, not just because there's a 1:1000000 chance of getting a loot card.
And ukron or whatever your name is (dont even care to double check my spelling), but its ironic calling me naive. Yes, I bought the game, but at the same time no where did I sign a contract with fine print that said my agreement meant I would want pets to be sold for 10 dollars.
Then MMOs will eventually offer the opposite that is converting virtual currency into real currency - and we will be potentially finally turning games into a job for the end-users, like Second Life and Project Entropia (don't really know if it's possible to make enough money to survive in real-life by just playing the game, just showing examples of RMT games that do offer the opposite path).
Then the MMO industry will generate so much money that hardware development will accelerate in a never seen before pace until we can plug-and-play our minds in these super-MMOs, one may call that the Matrix if one eventually appears to rule them all, while machines will be employed to do the real jobs required to maintain life.
Ok, the second paragraph may be kind of unrealistic currently but I place my coins into the first being the next phase of MMOs with their addictive power that is doing the impossible and making real-life potentially "boring".
While that may be true, that is still far ahead in the future, a lot farther away than microtransactions.
What I don't understand however is why game developers don't profit off the amount of people willing to buy in-game gold, and just create an in-game economy that can support it.
...
Why? Because thats just too easy an answer (and also means that the 500g you spent to have a blacksmith make you a sword, which he then kept, is now equal to $20 and now he's liable for theft.)
Any company with a large following does, even the oh so evil SOE has an influence on the overall market. Hello captain obvious....
Right, right, must have missed the masses of outraged 'tards ranting about the death of the genre when SOE did this. SOE lets people purchase max-level, max-geared toons, but two vanity pets...END OF THE GENRE, I SAY!!
Right, right, must have missed the masses of outraged 'tards ranting about the death of the genre when SOE did this. SOE lets people purchase max-level, max-geared toons, but two vanity pets...END OF THE GENRE, I SAY!!
You can look it up SOE gets knocked on daily for everything they do, lol. From their TCG to their RMT it's all evil.
I'm paraphrasing btw..
Legal issues? Genre not evolved enough? Maybe even principles, kind of a resistance to this potential that you can see in the form of P2P games and those that do hate RMT in their games (whatever reason that is for others, my reason is because of the "future" I talked about in the last post which can be pretty convenient for solving some of the population growth problems). Shows there's still a demand for this kind of RMT-free (at least officially) games.
Can't really know if the companies (or even a secret developer in the team) aren't doing that already in the background though, through these "illegal" third-party websites. This way they can grab some of the potential profit while keeping some kind of balance, retaining the ones that hate this kind of thing (after all if they still consider them, it must mean either the player base or the game mechanics aren't making it viable out of the black market).
"Beyond greedy"... Care to define(in non subjective terms) what this "greedy" is? Its a *vanity* pet. It does NOTHING in combat in the game. NO ONE is required to purchase it. As for the other, I'm certain that the charity involved is HAPPY to have the money.
Why? Because thats just too easy an answer (and also means that the 500g you spent to have a blacksmith make you a sword, which he then kept, is now equal to $20 and now he's liable for theft.)
In any game that constitutes scamming. In terms of the TOS and EULA, it's generally against the rules in an MMO to scam any other player of any in-game items.
In World of Warcraft for example, it is a ban-able offense, and generally restitution is made to the player who was scammed. Especially since they have records of the trade occurring generally.
For example, the SWTOR microtransaction TOS.
(I) You acknowledge and agree that all items acquired for points during the Game Program are non-refundable and non-tradable.
(K) You acknowledge and agree that BWA reserves the right to change/add/remove points rewarded in the Game store at any time and without warning. (M) You acknowledge and agree that points acquired during the Game Program cannot be saved up for or used in the commercial version of the Game.
Do you think they get charged for theft for removing the in-game points/
That isn't a valid argument against it, please find another.
I would have respected Blizzard more if they chose to give 100% of the money to charity instead of 50%. And at this point in time, I have to admit that I do not like the idea of indroducing item malls into games that already have a subscription fee. However, as long as they do not start to sell game breaking items that put other people at a far advantage over me, I will not worry.
I'm actually really impressed that they convinced the execs to donate that much in the first place.
"These pets offer absolutely no bonuses or in-game advantages of any kind"
Actually it does offer advantages in the achievement system, people that live for the achievements in this game (a large amount of people in my guild) are having to buy the pet to keep up with the joneses, so it does effect in-game systems.
I wouldn't have any problem at all with blizzard doing this if it didn't effect achievements. Luckily I am not big on achievements though
I enjoyed your post, Jon, except that you have some trouble with your R pressing that makes it come before/after wherever you wanted it to actually be.
*Shakes spelling Nazi fist*
Guys should complain a little, but the amount of "RMT IS THE DEVIL!" arguments I'm hearing is absurd. No wonder no one believes in God anymore - Evangelists and various crazy people trying to back up the religion by crying out about evil just tend to reinforce the opinion that what you're thinking (Eh, minimal vanity RMT) is probably better than being a crazy person (NO RMT BECAUSE IT'S BAD AND WE HATE IT AND MY MUM WON'T GIVE ME $10 TO BUY THE PETS).
Cheers Blizzard, keep making money to produce quality games - even if you do add stupidly large revenue schemes... ($25 for Server Transfers back in the day? Ugh... I did it once and I felt dirty and cheated.)
The money making schemes of big business is starting to go to ridiculous lengths. We are starting to see them rear their ugly heads now in MMO's. An example of this but a little off topic, today on the radio I heard that Bon Jovi is coming to town and tickets will be going on sale. If you want to get tickets you will have to buy a digital copy of their new album. The general public will then be able to buy tickets a week later, it it's not already sold out. Is that crazy, or just me?
Achievement Unlocked: Mr. Moneybags. [100]
Spent $1000 or more in the Blizzard Store.
Would you really even want that Achievement? If so, why, you retard*?
*Note that I am only calling you, or anyone that, if they really wanted that Achievement.
I disagree and i think your wrong about this, there are allot of "grown ups" that are financially secure but dont have the time to "gear" or "level" their characters like most "kiddies" do. There is a MUCH larger number of folks that would embrace RMT, more than the keyboard jockeys that troll these forums.
In any game that constitutes scamming. In terms of the TOS and EULA, it's generally against the rules in an MMO to scam any other player of any in-game items.
In World of Warcraft for example, it is a ban-able offense, and generally restitution is made to the player who was scammed. Especially since they have records of the trade occurring generally.
For example, the SWTOR microtransaction TOS.
(I) You acknowledge and agree that all items acquired for points during the Game Program are non-refundable and non-tradable.
(K) You acknowledge and agree that BWA reserves the right to change/add/remove points rewarded in the Game store at any time and without warning. (M) You acknowledge and agree that points acquired during the Game Program cannot be saved up for or used in the commercial version of the Game.
Do you think they get charged for theft for removing the in-game points/
That isn't a valid argument against it, please find another.
I was referring to two players, not the company and the player. So the SWTOR example has no connection to my example.
I don't think Blizzard would put items in an itemshop that would actually affect the game. Just like they would never lower the subscription fee, even though they have an 11 million player base wich I kind of doubt. No quite the contrary. They rather have you trudge along. That way they can suck up as much money as possible off there player community. To be honest with you World of Warcraft is kind of outdated anyway. From a graphic stand point anyway. Blizzard had some good ideas. But they also had a lot of bad ideas. We'll just have to wait and see on which side of the line this one falls.
P.S:If they really cared about the player base you would some kind of real respose. NOT automated. They would also ask the commuity what content should be add. Not just spring it on them at some cheesey ass cinvention.
But they don't really care about the player base. They care about making a profit. They only care for the customers insofar as it keeps them as subscribers, or generates more subscribers. I swear, some of you seem to think that companies actually "Care". Do you also believe those stupid mortgage and insurance commercials that tell you the companies care?
All this sensationalism about how the big companies are destroying MMOs is a bit reminiscent of the ultra-conservatives and their assertion that Obama pushing for a public option is the first step to socializing our country: a whole lot of shouting and paranoia, without the facts to support it.
Maybe all of you dissenters should take a cue from Bachman and rally around Blizzard HQ in protest to this first step towards a subscription and RMT model to show your disgust and outrage.
In any game that constitutes scamming. In terms of the TOS and EULA, it's generally against the rules in an MMO to scam any other player of any in-game items.
In World of Warcraft for example, it is a ban-able offense, and generally restitution is made to the player who was scammed. Especially since they have records of the trade occurring generally.
For example, the SWTOR microtransaction TOS.
(I) You acknowledge and agree that all items acquired for points during the Game Program are non-refundable and non-tradable.
(K) You acknowledge and agree that BWA reserves the right to change/add/remove points rewarded in the Game store at any time and without warning. (M) You acknowledge and agree that points acquired during the Game Program cannot be saved up for or used in the commercial version of the Game.
Do you think they get charged for theft for removing the in-game points/
That isn't a valid argument against it, please find another.
I was referring to two players, not the company and the player. So the SWTOR example has no connection to my example.
If the company that sell you the gold cannot be held responsible for taking your money for no reason, how could a player be accounted for it? Clearly you don't know law. You don't own anything in a video game world, so one player taking something from another player, that doesn't have any value in real life (as mentioned MANY MANY times throughout TOS) cannot be stolen and the player cannot be charged with "theft".
I used SW:TOR for my example, because the micro-transaction TOS was readily available to me without having to read-up and cut some out of some other games, so yes, as a probably user of RMT it does connect to your example. As does that of World of Warcraft which I imagine is similar.
But you have it backwards. Blizzard isn't forcing anyone to buy their pets to gain access to a particular live event going on next week. It's something extra added to the game. How about for the people not happy with it, just pretend like its not there and continue playing the game as usual because you know what? That's a perfectly viable reaction to the store. If you don't like it, ignore it. They are not requiring you to buy anything from this store for expanded access to the game or anything. These are all extras. How ridiculous and childish...think we need to call the "waaaaaghhh-mbulance" on this one.
Like many other posters, Jon, I disagree with you that (a) now is not the time to make a fuss, and (b) there is a limited amount of such fuss that companies will really take notice of. I think your article just reflects a personal tolerance for RMT and more generally how much value you personally place on ideals, and idealism. There is very little rational logic or argument going on here.
I cancelled my WoW account a few days ago after playing a month or two and I am now (more happily) playing Fallen Earth. If I was still subscribed to WoW I would have cancelled because of the RMT issue. If RMT ever appears in Fallen Earth I will leave, but I think that will never happen because of the market niche Icarus has aimed for. And really, thank heavens for Icarus.
I generally agree with the article, though I have some asides for it.
The charity angle is a pretty thin cover for the RMT move. Lots of companies donate more proceeds from the sale of specific items to assorted charities. If people actually cared for a given charity, clicking on websites and plugging in credit card info is ridiculously easy these days. Anyone who thinks they are getting these pets for anything but personal vanity is, quite simply, fooling themselves.
This doesn't mean charity is bad. Just that we need to be clear that Blizzard is not simply doing this for the children here. They're doing it to sugar-coat the RMT move. It's nice that they are initially donating some of the sales to charity, but that stops after Dec. 31, after which it goes straight to their pockets.
However, I do agree there's a lot of fury over something that hasn't yet seen any actual implications. Saying that non-combat pets affecting the achievements is a big deal is just plain bunk. Until the non-combat pet achievements give me 310% speed flying mounts or epics, I find it difficult to drum up much sympathy for those crying "Wolf, wolf!" The reward for collecting non-combat pets is... more non-combat pets. Hmm. Don't see how a little skunk that likes to hump black cats is really hurting the game there, folks.
If Blizzard crosses the line from non-combat pets and maybe heirlooms (basically worthless to sell for real money except to first-time players anyway) into actual superior/epic gear and/or emblems and badges, I'll be glad to grab a pitchfork and a torch, and help you all lynch them on every forum, blog, etc. on the web.
Until then, I'll be keeping my tinfoil hat handy, just in case...
Exactly.
I've worked in retail for far too long and one of the harsh lessons that I learned very quickly is that consumers don't stop to think that as a business you are there to make money.
In this topic Blizzard is offering a product in exchange for cash. If you don't like it don't buy it.
If they were doing something like stating that you had to have one or both of these pets to continue your subscription, or that the pets each added a % to your stats for owning them yes my personal opinion would be that it is not cool, but my opinion isn't what counts. What does count is what happens to the business model whether it be bottom line $$ value, projected future income or however they want to measure it.
At the end of the day it is their business and they can make whatever changes they want fair or unfair and if you don't like it then cancel your sub, if you don't have one and were born with Blizzard hate why do you care to comment in the first place.
Things change if the business model takes a hit, not because a blog was written to clarify a situation and 200+ people had a flame war over their opinions on what they think is ethical in how companies choose to make money.
Actually, they do, and that's how they know when they're being exploited and taken advantage of for that purpose. Businesses make money, but there are many ways to go about that, and many are less ethical than others.
The cute little pandas and liches are really exploiting you? Seriously? Do you feel that obligated to buy one to feel like you are fully experiencing the game? You'll probably forget about all this next week. Again, another extrapolation without reason. If you are going to point out exploitation, at least provide a good reason. Voluntarily being able to buy pointless cosmetic virtual items surely cannot convince you that Blizzard is really forcing you into a situation here as a subscriber -_- Unless you are that easily influenced by the game of course then I would recommend therapy and time off from the game ;)
You and other like minded individuals comprise a TINY percentage of the player base. In the grand scheme of things, your presence and money will not be missed. This is trival, and if you allow it to deprive you of the enjoyment of the next few games, you have only yourself to blame.
Devil's advocate: Where is your statistical data that shows what exactly that percentage is? (Rhetorical question as you don't have any)
Fact of the matter is none of us know how this will affect those game sales until they happen and even then there isn't a way to measure how many people would have purchased the games but decided not to because of this move. A look can be taken by Blizzard internally comparing their average weekly or monthly loss of accounts and then compare them to the data gathered after this announcement. Of course, they aren't going to share that information with us if it's negative. If it's positive they will because companies (ahem, SOE) like to pat themselves on the back if a "controversial" move earns a profit.
So if we hear from Blizzard how well the shops do with lots of fireworks and faire, then it worked. Unless they lie to save face. If we don't hear from them, then they lost more account income than the shops could replace. Maybe, lol! Speculation keeps forums alive!
Kahl, I don't need hard data for this... The percentage of people who lapse into hysterics about something this trival has to be smaller than those who win the Darwin award...
But yes, emo does keep the forums running... 
You know you guys are right. Take all the vanity out of the game and make it only about stats.
This is what happens when you morph a game over the years into catering to the grief fest types. They wont even make a donation to charity for a vanity pet.
Spoiled much?
How is this in any way unethical? No one flamed Nintendo when they made people go to their Pokemon Center in New York to access certain legendary Pokemon, or buy extra accessories to get access to them. That actually affected gameplay. Blizzard will only have crossed the line if they decided to implement items that affected gameplay, or decided to only make new non-combat pets available through their Blizzard Store, or something along those lines. This is no such thing.
So I guess you eat organic food, and buy all your clothes from an organic source? As well as not supporting any company that has direct or indirect ties with anything unethical?
Please give me a fucking break.
1% of the population pays attention to that stuff, and it takes money to do things differently.
I like your conspiracy theory. Its funny.
I don't think it's so much "protesting charity". I think it's more questioning why does a company that makes billions if not more in profit of an existing customer base feel the need to charge more for additional items in order to donate to charity. Couldn't they just do it from their existing income and the write it off as a tax break? Or better yet offer up 25% or 50% of 1 month's subscription fees as a charitable gift?
Why instead to they choose to offer up additional virtual items for purchase and offer a percentage of those sales (why not offer the entire amount generated from those sales?) so that they don't have to give up any of their standard subscription revenue. Sounds disingenuous to me at best.
For the record I don't play WoW and don't have anything against Blizzard personally. This store idea just seems a little..."not right" from the sounds of it.
Devil's advocate: Where is your statistical data that shows what exactly that percentage is? (Rhetorical question as you don't have any)
Fact of the matter is none of us know how this will affect those game sales until they happen and even then there isn't a way to measure how many people would have purchased the games but decided not to because of this move. A look can be taken by Blizzard internally comparing their average weekly or monthly loss of accounts and then compare them to the data gathered after this announcement. Of course, they aren't going to share that information with us if it's negative. If it's positive they will because companies (ahem, SOE) like to pat themselves on the back if a "controversial" move earns a profit.
So if we hear from Blizzard how well the shops do with lots of fireworks and faire, then it worked. Unless they lie to save face. If we don't hear from them, then they lost more account income than the shops could replace. Maybe, lol! Speculation keeps forums alive!
Kahl, I don't need hard data for this... The percentage of people who lapse into hysterics about something this trival has to be smaller than those who win the Darwin award...
But yes, emo does keep the forums running... 
Having looked around this earth at my "fellow" human beings I beg to differ, lol! If this were true we wouldn't hear from them, right?
But yeah, we'll have to sit back and see what happens. Some of the dramatic responses so generate a good giggle if you a) don't get emotionally involved about the topic and b) know that the other person really believes the sky is falling.
Yes, and that's the fair and honest way to raise extra income. IF they needed it, which they clearly don't.
i hate how people on these forums overreact especially to something as small as 2 pets that you don't need to purchase with half of the income from these going to a charity. Come on people do you have any idea who stupid you sound by making these wild claims and freaking out over something this trivial. If you don't want the pet then don't buy it. It doesn't change the game one bit if you don't or if someone else does. If another game company comes out to do this then sure bash Blizzard because the other company donated more. However, be lets be realistic. Blizzard is the only mmo company besides ncsoft that has enough income and player base to make this work. Be thankful they care enough to do this cause frankly they could have just as easily taken the full 100% of the sale for themselves but they didn't.
Yes, and that's the fair and honest way to raise extra income. IF they needed it, which they clearly don't.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6239235.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;3
From the looks of this recent article (dated today), no they definetly don't need it, lol.
I will have my self-respect, which is worth more to me than any game.
I don't stay in abusive relationships. You people in denial keep telling yourselves "it's okay because Blizzard loves me".
Wow, I have been at work for the past 16 or so hours and during that time the nerd-rage has not stopped.
So amazing it made this banana dance!
I will have my self-respect, which is worth more to me than any game.
I don't stay in abusive relationships. You people in denial keep telling yourselves "it's okay because Blizzard loves me".
I don't really care to read far enough back into this pointless topic but did you quit due to this because honestly that's not a very good reason.
I don't think it's so much "protesting charity". I think it's more questioning why does a company that makes billions if not more in profit of an existing customer base feel the need to charge more for additional items in order to donate to charity. Couldn't they just do it from their existing income and the write it off as a tax break? Or better yet offer up 25% or 50% of 1 month's subscription fees as a charitable gift?
Why instead to they choose to offer up additional virtual items for purchase and offer a percentage of those sales (why not offer the entire amount generated from those sales?) so that they don't have to give up any of their standard subscription revenue. Sounds disingenuous to me at best.
For the record I don't play WoW and don't have anything against Blizzard personally. This store idea just seems a little..."not right" from the sounds of it.
Its all because they want to make more profit obviously. The 50% to charity is a PR move. Why on earth would they make the donations from existing income when they can introduce a pet store that has 0 effect on the game mechanics and is purely optional to generate more money and make the deductions from that, and still increase their profits at the same time?
Well said, Mr. Wood. I agree 100%.
Then, they wouldn't have idiots defending the change as some grand humanitarian crusade.
Blizzard is laughing at you suckers, not those of us who won't accept the sneaky tricks.
I didn't quit WoW because of this (I quit a couple of months ago), but I have quit Blizzard because of it.
Of course it's a good reason. How much is your self-respect worth to you? I won't let anyone cheat or manipulate me.
So because we should expect companies to be greedy it is OK they are? Or is it because it's not "necessary" for playing the game so it's OK? Although, very little is "necessary" to play the game as I already had gear.
The point is it *does* add to the gameplay experience no matter how much you wish to claim otherwise. And the proof of that is the fact that people are willing to pay $10 for it. They would not pay $10 for something that did not enhance their play of the game at all.
My issue is two-fold. First is that I pay a subscription to get the benefits of the developers work in this virtual world other than large expansion packs. That was the tacit understanding. They added services, fine, that was outside the world. But this is a virtual item in exchange for cash. I feel that breaks my understanding of the agreement I had with Blizzard.
Second it broadens the acceptability of a shop alongside a monthly subscription. And while it may be vanity items now it won't be later either in this game or others. I refuse to support that model. As such I have ditched all SOE games that support it and now all Blizzard games that support it.
Their choice and my choice. Are they "evil" for deciding it? No. They are a business, as you said. And they made an informed decision KNOWING they would lose subscribers over it. And ultimately decided the income they would recieve was more important to them than those subscribers satisfaction.
Their choice, my choice.
Luckily there are many other options.
Then, they wouldn't have idiots defending the change as some grand humanitarian crusade.
Blizzard is laughing at you suckers, not those of us who won't accept the sneaky tricks.
I doubt Blizzard is laughing, you seem to have this bizarre idea that their trying to trick people, as if they are doing something wrong.
I have to admit to bursting out laughing at this line .... subbing to a Blizzard game =abusive relationship .... my oh my thats classic!!!!
Maybe it's Jon Wood that's been posting all of those racist posts in the general discussion. What, only western players have a problem with RMT? Give me a break.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6239235.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;3
From the looks of this recent article (dated today), no they definetly don't need it, lol.
Who gets to define who needs more of what? Blizzard has an obligation to its shareholders to make the best profit possible. Simply because they have made billions, doesn't remove that responsibility. Those who use emotional appeals to "greed" are entirely missing the objective of business.
Well, more the shareholders of Activision lest we forget that it was after that buyout that we saw more and more revenue streams for Blizzard.
Shareholders don't have "needs" they have "wants" and those wants are "As Much As Possible" which is why people say... it will not stop at this. And it won't.
I think what bothers a lot of people is deep down the tone has changed from "We will provide an accessible product with good quality for a fair market price" to "we are popular and have seen that people have even more cash and will pay it and so we want it, open your wallets."
PS. Companies do not have an obligation to shareholders to make the best profit possible. They like to, yes, but the obligation is to provide the best long-term value by making the company the best it can be. My personal opinion is alienating a portion of your base that will give you constant revenue of $15 a month and then some in exchange for a short term revenue stream of smaller one time purchases may look good on the books intitially but is a poor move over the long term.
My dear lord.... World of Warcraft is the intellectual property of Blizzard entertainment. You subscribe, and they grant you access to the game content. It is perfectly reasonable for Blizzard insert some worthless fluff for the handful of people who want something that marks them out as "leet" or whatever, and charge them actual money for it. If you don't want it, don't buy it. Your game experience will be exactly the same
And if they charged for every piece of new gear and content coming out from now on my game experience would still be exactly the same. That's not the point. The point is there was an unspoken "understanding" between Blizzard and a portion of the community and they chose to break it. Which is completely within their rights. As it is within people's rights to not like it and communicate such.
They definitely are manipulating you. Look how they've gotten you all worked up. If that's not manipulation, I don't know what is.
No, it won't. If it was, no one would buy the pets.
ROFL an "unspoken understanding"?!?! That is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Why the hell should a multinational company adhere to something as imaginary as "unspoken understandings"? I'd LOVE to have to explain that to the shareholders.
"I'm sorry, I know this plan has the potential to increase profits, and would be a good PR move at the same time, but we're not going to do it because of an unspoken understanding that we have with the player base"
BAWWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Ahem, sorry, but are a parodist?
What a sad and mean little world you must live in.
It is possible to treat your customers with respect.
As for law, there are such things as expectation of service. Not everything is written down in black and white.
While I agree the outrage went way too far. I don't think it was unfounded. (not that anyone is arguing that) My opinion is that this used to be a feature that we as players got for free, all vanity pets/mounts/whatever where attainable through gameplay and so where included in your subscription fee. Now those things which we used to get with our subscription fee are being moved to something we have to buy outside of our original fee.
So its not that its some crazy outrageous thing (although $10 is a bit steep if you ask me). It just that special mounts, vanity pets, and the like that aren't attainable through the game at this point seem like something that should still be included in our subscription fees as is was before. Just my opinion though.
It's called developing a "relationship" with your customer and treating them with respect because, among other things, it is in the business' long term interest. Clearly treating people with respect is a concept beyond you so I won't expect you to understand.
Well, more the shareholders of Activision lest we forget that it was after that buyout that we saw more and more revenue streams for Blizzard.
Shareholders don't have "needs" they have "wants" and those wants are "As Much As Possible" which is why people say... it will not stop at this. And it won't.
I think what bothers a lot of people is deep down the tone has changed from "We will provide an accessible product with good quality for a fair market price" to "we are popular and have seen that people have even more cash and will pay it and so we want it, open your wallets."
PS. Companies do not have an obligation to shareholders to make the best profit possible. They like to, yes, but the obligation is to provide the best long-term value by making the company the best it can be. My personal opinion is alienating a portion of your base that will give you constant revenue of $15 a month and then some in exchange for a short term revenue stream of smaller one time purchases may look good on the books intitially but is a poor move over the long term.
NO. Corporations DO have a *responsibility* to make the best profits possible. That inherently includes decisions that can impact the long term bottom line. Those that rant and rave about appeals to emotion like "greed" either have an ideological agenda, or are terribly ignorant of how business systems and markets operate in the real world. No one is being forced to purchase those *vanity* pets. They are simply being made available to those who *choose* to purchase them. The hysteria of those raving about this trivial issue would be wildly funny, if it wasn't so pathetic.
Surprisingly, it seems a great deal of the playerbase is aware of what Blizzard is trying to do, and are quitting accordingly. I absolutely fucking hate Kotick. He is both a terrible man and an idiot of a CEO. He treats consumers like shit, and his investors are getting out of there before it all collapses on him.
NO. Corporations DO have a *responsibility* to make the best profits possible. That inherently includes decisions that can impact the long term bottom line. Those that rant and rave about appeals to emotion like "greed" either have an ideological agenda, or are terribly ignorant of how business systems and markets operate in the real world. No one is being forced to purchase those *vanity* pets. They are simply being made available to those who *choose* to purchase them. The hysteria of those raving about this trivial issue would be wildly funny, if it wasn't so pathetic.
Then we are in agreement. "Best" does not equal "Most right now". Which is what I said. And what I feel this particular move is. You are correct, nobody is being forced to purchase them. Nor are they forced to pay a subscription. And some, self included, are choosing to stop for it. Regardless of if you think it is "hysteria" or "raving" or "trivial" or "pathetic."
It's a choice. I don't begrudge the company for doing it. I don't begrudge people for deciding it doesn't matter to them. However, I do show them respect for their decision even if I do disagree and feel that some people are close minded and short sighted.
The columnist completely missed the point of why people are complaining.
WoW is a f'ing CASH COW for Blizzard. The amount of money it makes for Blizzard/Activision is STAGGERING. So what does Blizzard do? The offer vanity pets for...$10. TEN DOLLARS.
Let's just be honest here. Can we just drop the ruse and rename the game World of Greedcraft? This has nothing to do with the controversy of microtransaction, blah, blah, blah...it has everything to do with a VERY RICH game company crossing the greed line.
Doomsday theorists and crystal ball readers.
You can peek into the future knowing perfectly well Blizz is going to charge people for ... what? XP enhancers? Come on, be specific, what is it? If you are making a forcast, be specific. Or you are just blowing smoke.
Doomsday theory all around, we will lose Califonia to earthquake and Texas to hurricanes b/c some game is charging $10 for a pet. Greenbacks will lose 50% of its exchange value and the american budget will gain another $500 billion deficit b/c Blizz changes their charging scheme. Oh yeah, Blizz also will sell you tokens to kill a boss that is hard to kill, that will translate to the Republicans winning all state governor's seats.
None of you works for Blizz. No one knows what Blizz has in plan. So far its just 2 pets, and half of the earnings from one pets goes to charity. Everything else you whinners QQ about are just your own fairy tales.
Trying to make an unspecified pretentious projection and saying that Blizz will somehow sometime in the future offers more sales thru the cash shop is not a prediction. If Blizz does not do it in 2010, you can predict it to happen in 2011 or LATER. You will never be wrong. If Blizz sells anything else, anything you never foresee, you can pretend to claim you knows Blizz is coming. I predict that one of you, and everyone of you, is a bisexual. If you are not yet now, you will be, sometime. If you are not yet, when you died, you surely will be a bisexual ghost. Prove me wrong.
And if they charged for every piece of new gear and content coming out from now on my game experience would still be exactly the same. That's not the point. The point is there was an unspoken "understanding" between Blizzard and a portion of the community and they chose to break it. Which is completely within their rights. As it is within people's rights to not like it and communicate such.
"Unspoken understanding"...<rolls eyes> In other words, some people have deluded themselves in to adopting a certain perspective, and then get hysterical when others don't abide by their delusion? This is a totally trivial issue. Anyone who doesn't want one of those *vanity* pets is under no obligation to purchase one.
Define(in non subjective terms) this "greed" you speak of. No doubt its one or the other of; "Someone has more than me!" or "someone has more than I believe they should!".
Lets be honest here, you are not in a position to judge who is making more money than he is worth. Maybe you are earning more than you are worth. Maybe.
The columnist already addressed the point you are pretending to sell on moral ground. Every business is in for money. Unless the customers are stupid, Blizz is successful in making money b/c they keep customers happy, a lot of them. Instead of feeling jealous and calling them greedy, why not appreciate the effort and length Blizz went to meet client needs.
If you think that greed is an issue, which I also feel is an issue of concern, you should be reconsidering the current basis of market capitalism. Poking a player who plays along the current mechanism is unfair. Stop trying to sell the theory that Blizz open the way to greed. Greed is already everywhere in market capitalism.
"Unspoken understanding"...<rolls eyes> In other words, some people have deluded themselves in to adopting a certain perspective, and then get hysterical when others don't abide by their delusion? This is a totally trivial issue. Anyone who doesn't want one of those *vanity* pets is under no obligation to purchase one.
TacBoy has his own understanding that he forgot to speak to Blizz or someone on that side, unspoken understanding indeed. Now Blizz is responsible for honoring every unilateral unspoken dreams from every gamer or would be gamer or their dog. Poor Blizz, they need a quite some years to clear the backlogs of every dreamer and their dreams, and a vet to read dreams of dogs.
I have an unspoken understanding that everyone who read my post on MMORPG should pay for my words, $1 per letter. Please donate the money to "Feed the troll funds". Thank you.
TacBoy does fully recognise that Blizz has the full rights to levy charges. He feel that is something of concern and air it here. Fully within his rights. So its all fair.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6239235.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;3
From the looks of this recent article (dated today), no they definetly don't need it, lol.
Who gets to define who needs more of what? Blizzard has an obligation to its shareholders to make the best profit possible. Simply because they have made billions, doesn't remove that responsibility. Those who use emotional appeals to "greed" are entirely missing the objective of business.
The same can be said of those who use emotional appeal in the spirit of greed.
Good article. I think I would buy one and call it George if I still played WOW.
As long as item shops are only offering cosmetic upgrades only I don't mind about them.
Your entire rant is ridiculous. If paying 10 bucks for a pet does not enhance your in game experience, than Blizzard would not be trying it and people would not be buying it. It doesn't matter if it's fluff or not. If you can't get it by paying your monthly fee and playing the game it shouldn't be there in the first place.
Who gets to define who needs more of what? Blizzard has an obligation to its shareholders to make the best profit possible. Simply because they have made billions, doesn't remove that responsibility. Those who use emotional appeals to "greed" are entirely missing the objective of business.
The same can be said of those who use emotional appeal in the spirit of greed.
Emotional appeals are used to manipulate the thoughtless. Clearly defined terms are necessary to clear communication. But thats the last thing that some wish to see happen.
I disagree with the general point of your post, and I don't believe in ghosts, but DAMN that was funny.
LOL and well done.
So you are saying you would feel left out when you play WOW and don't have / can't afford one of those pets? Would the game experience be any less to you?
Gimme a break ...
My guess is most people would be much more satisfied about getting a rare, hard to get dropped pet than having one of these pets-for-cash.
Quoted for truthiness.
NO. Corporations DO have a *responsibility* to make the best profits possible. That inherently includes decisions that can impact the long term bottom line. Those that rant and rave about appeals to emotion like "greed" either have an ideological agenda, or are terribly ignorant of how business systems and markets operate in the real world. No one is being forced to purchase those *vanity* pets. They are simply being made available to those who *choose* to purchase them. The hysteria of those raving about this trivial issue would be wildly funny, if it wasn't so pathetic.
No shit Sherlock. Yes Corporations have a responsibility to make profits. That's usually done by making a good game. Since WoW has long neglected that basic side of the equation we now see this. First vanity pets, second epic gear. It's all good in the name of the almighty corporation making an honest buck. Until you realize that you have a playerbase based on a subscription based principal. Not a Sub + RMT. So it's all fine and dandy now. Go buy your pets to your hearts content all while paying your monthly sub fee. Just know that me and a lot of others in this thread know it will not stop there. So you maybe win the argument at this very moment, but mark my words, you and every supporter in this thread is going to be named in the future when the real change goes live. It will be a hallow victory though since the genre, as we know it, will be lost.
When the other shoe drops, and we say "I TOLD YOU SO", they will have their fingers in their ears singing "LALALALA".
But, we will know we were right, and so will they.
Quoted for truthiness.
Lol, or you can realize that it is Blizzard who is determining the business model, not you. So you can say "It shouldn't be there" all you want. That's just your opinion. I'd like to point out that there's all those expansions you don't get paying the monthly fee either. I guess those shouldn't exist either.
Great post, Stradden. Common sense isn't really very common, is it?
These companies do not need millions of subscription fees ON TOP of retail priced games,remember most the mainstream games aren't giving their software away for free (initial release) OR the price of one month's "rent", to maintain their servers. What are we paying for if not improvements and minor updates like this? This pay a full priced retail package + monthly subscription fee + expansion packs + microtrans and for some cases a premium for customer serivce is getting way out of hand. It's greed. There is a different between looking at the bottom line and going out of your way to see what you can get away with until someone says enough. Well I am saying it, enough. I don't pay microtrans on subscription fee based games. Period.
Save all your anger for when (or if) something truly game-breaking occurs.
The outrage that a simple exclusive item (with semi-good intentions) is creating is absurd. All the rage seems to come from what everyone fears this 1 "cashshop" item might turn into, but surprize it hasn't happened yet and likely never will. So instead of quitting the game and ranting about what this action may lead to, wait and save your breath for when it actually happens!
The WoW community never ceases to amaze me.. boycotting something that doesn't exist is truly amazing.
You can start waving bye-bye to free content patches. They will be scaled back and you will see content offered for sale in some way. Keys to new dungeons, for example.
I'm sure they will be sly about it - like the charity PR move.
I'm going to be polite and simply ask why - since we have seen this slippery slope effect in other games - you think it won't happen in WoW?
As for me personally, the charging extra for content that should have been included in the subscription fee (meaning everyone playing has a fair chance at it) is enough to show that Blizzard has no respect for their customers. I don't do business with people who treat me with contempt.
You can start waving bye-bye to free content patches. They will be scaled back and you will see content offered for sale in some way. Keys to new dungeons, for example.
I'm sure they will be sly about it - like the charity PR move.
Wow! How long have you been able to see the future?! Thats really amazing man! Can you tell me what I'm going to have for lunch tommorow! Or can you help me win the lottery or somthing??!?!!?!?!? I mean, since you obviously know what Blizzard's going to do you can help me with the easy task of picking winning lottery numbers right!!!
Good for you. Take a stand if it's something you feel strongly about. Don't pay for something you don't WANT....I get that. However, to make the statement, "These companies do not NEED millions....etc, etc," is just silly. Companies are in business TO MAKE MONEY. I'm pretty willing to bet, that if anyone that was whining in these threads was the CEO of Blizzard....they'd do the same thing. It's only annoying because it's someone else that's making all that money.
Blizzard has every right to make money with their products HOWEVER they choose. And the consumer has every right to choose not to buy or TO buy, whatever they choose. That's how supply and demand works. Simple economics.
See you don't make money just because you "NEED" it. You make money for a lot of things you don't "need." Some people make 250k a year and they don't "need" all that money. BUT....they want to drive matching BMWs and they WANT to go on a cruise every year. They want to eat at the nicest restaurants, and they want to have a 52" HD television....whatever. They certainly don't NEED any of those things. So where should the cut off line be? How much money should we ALLOW people to make, exactly? Do you see where actually ANSWERING that question is heading?......
You're going to have to ask a lot more politely then that.
Actually an item shop arrangement has been going on in EQ2 for the last 3 odd years.
Funny how it only becomes news when Blizzard do it LOL.
As for the cost of the things, so what?
If people want something bad enough they don't care the cost, the ones who complain need to wake up to how the MMO world has changed over the last 8-9 years.
This is the wave of the future.
Pets are the ultimate vanity item after a fully stocked personal "virtual" residence and a mount.
Oops almost forgot about the Dressing Dolls faction, clothes or the "look" are very important to many mmoers.
And it is all part of the fun ;)
I'm going to be polite and simply ask why - since we have seen this slippery slope effect in other games - you think it won't happen in WoW?
Who's to say it will or won't happen. It's just it hasn't happened yet, so all the insanity is kind of premature.
Since everyone claims WoW to be the superb mmo, wouldn't it be safe to assume they are incapible of such a failure? ^sarcasm^
hmmm not that im saying this is right or wrong but if an mmo is enjoyable people will pay and play.
Look at most of the stuff that comes out single player now a days £40-£50 and about 8hrs gameplay altho its rich gameplay i enjoy mmos because i can play for hours and hours knowing im not going to just complete it and have nothing to do
If it means i pay £40 per month for a game so be it still alot more game time than my single player games.
Yup - socialism, and that is where a decent and humane society should be heading.
Of course it doesn't really matter how much Blizzard charges for whatever. I don't think anyone is saying they should be shut down. Some of us, ARE saying that we won't stand for it. That should be fine with you. Why isn't it? Unless you have some financial stake in an MMO company. Our leaving the game doesn't hurt you - unless a lot more of us leave than you claim to expect.
Greed is not good.
Gold is not my God.
It's not that you can buy pets. I don't care.
I just think Blizzard's "crossed a terrible threshold," to use their own quote ...
Mark my words, they will be selling in-game gold for real money soon enough, and they will do it in the name of destroying the third-party gold-for-money market.
Yup - socialism, and that is where a decent and humane society should be heading.
Of course it doesn't really matter how much Blizzard charges for whatever. I don't think anyone is saying they should be shut down. Some of us, ARE saying that we won't stand for it. That should be fine with you. Why isn't it? Unless you have some financial stake in an MMO company. Our leaving the game doesn't hurt you - unless a lot more of us leave than you claim to expect.
Greed is not good.
Gold is not my God.
No, actually, we are not going to become socialist. You feel free to go ahead with that. Just realize that you hold a minority opinion.
And its nice that you won't stand for it. Quit. Of course, you'll be in a minority. There are always people, at EVERY PATCH who claim that something that has been implemented is game-breaking/betrayal and they are going to quit. I'm sure Blizzard has anticipated this.
Greed is definitely good, and definitely God in a capitalist society. Welcome to the real world.
Look at the bright side, Jon accomplished what he set out to do.
Made a controversial article about a very touchy subject on a popular item, and BAM! Instant site flood.
All the lovely traffic, good for business.
Yup - socialism, and that is where a decent and humane society should be heading.
Of course it doesn't really matter how much Blizzard charges for whatever. I don't think anyone is saying they should be shut down. Some of us, ARE saying that we won't stand for it. That should be fine with you. Why isn't it? Unless you have some financial stake in an MMO company. Our leaving the game doesn't hurt you - unless a lot more of us leave than you claim to expect.
Greed is not good.
Gold is not my God.
Actually, it IS perfectly fine with me. Where do you get the idea it isn't? I'm not the one that's throwing a fit in this thread...lol. I think it's ABSOLUTELY fine to choose not to support a company that behaves in a way that is in opposition to what you feel is right. HOWEVER....I'm also of the belief that the company has a right, within the law, to make money (however much they choose) for their products and to LEGALLY sell said product to consumers that DO want what they have to offer. So MY QUESTION is: Why is that not okay with YOU?
Frankly, I don't care what game people play or support. They're GAMES. In the grand scheme of things...they mean nothing. Playing them or not playing them isn't going to change my life in any meaningful long-term way. They're recreation....just like golf or crocheting, for that matter.
Greed is not good. I agree. But I don't feel it's my job to try to fix anyone else's "sin" or moral shortcoming. I have plenty to deal with just trying to keep mySELF on the "straight and narrow" to be bothered with policing anyone else. People will buy what they WANT to buy, and they will NOT buy what they don't want. It's really all fairly simple, and all of the hooplah over it...isn't going to make one iota difference. If enough people leave WoW....WoW will go away. And THAT....isn't a big deal. On the other hand, if that doesn't happen....I don't find that a big deal in the grand scheme of REAL LIFE either.....
I would have said they were 'unlikely' to make such moves before they started all the account services for pay offers. Not any of that should cost extra. Either it shouldn't be offered at all, or it should be included in the standard fee.
Now that is sweeping and royally wrong.
Blizz is trying to sell something for $10, no one in Blizz knows before the launch how many copies will be sold. That is business. You sell something, it would be hit or miss, or in between. Blizz trying to sell it does not mean it must sell. Or it must enhance .. what? what is in game experience.
Whether it enhance my or your ingame experience is something impossible to measure, what is ingame experience, what is the way to measure enhance. Unless you use the circular reason, it enhanced experience so people buy, people buy b/c it enhance experience, that ppl buy proves it enhance business, circular round and round.
As for whether it should be there in the first place, that does not follow from your bunch of words before it. Whether is sells or not, whether it is fluff or not, whether ppl have it from monthly fee or not, does not logically dictate whether Blizz should include it in game. Should is a judgment. Your judgment. Blizz can and does have its own judgment. Its their game, so their judgment prevails.
Couple of points:
Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience.
As was said earlier in the thread - MMOs are about prestige for many people. Highest level, most gold, best mount, best gear, coolest pet. As someone also said - when you play many MT games and don't participate in MT you are often left feeling you have somehow 'missed out' - it's clever marketing based on human psychology.
MMO companies know this. You should know this.
But more than that the "you don't have to buy it..." crowd are missing another important point:
Who pays the subscriptions and will be buying these (Cash Shop) items?
PARENTS.
Parents who may not even play WoW and in many cases will be uninformed about exactly whether the item is 'needed' or not.
Yeah, start of a slippery slope here. I don't play WoW - but it worries me that so many developers follow Blizzard's lead like sheep.
It is because they are being greedy, and greed is bad.
BTW, there are laws against profiteering in times of shortages, so no, greed isn't legally protected in all cases. Not that those laws apply to a gaming service, of course.
He didn't write it for his audience. He wrote it for his clients.
Gaming sites don't serve their members. Unless they are paying members.
NO. Corporations DO have a *responsibility* to make the best profits possible. That inherently includes decisions that can impact the long term bottom line. Those that rant and rave about appeals to emotion like "greed" either have an ideological agenda, or are terribly ignorant of how business systems and markets operate in the real world. No one is being forced to purchase those *vanity* pets. They are simply being made available to those who *choose* to purchase them. The hysteria of those raving about this trivial issue would be wildly funny, if it wasn't so pathetic.
No shit Sherlock. Yes Corporations have a responsibility to make profits. That's usually done by making a good game. Since WoW has long neglected that basic side of the equation we now see this. First vanity pets, second epic gear. It's all good in the name of the almighty corporation making an honest buck. Until you realize that you have a playerbase based on a subscription based principal. Not a Sub + RMT. So it's all fine and dandy now. Go buy your pets to your hearts content all while paying your monthly sub fee. Just know that me and a lot of others in this thread know it will not stop there. So you maybe win the argument at this very moment, but mark my words, you and every supporter in this thread is going to be named in the future when the real change goes live. It will be a hallow victory though since the genre, as we know it, will be lost.
Hmm so you suddenly conclude that WoW is not providing a good game, good conclusion.
If WoW does not provide good enough gameplay for its clients, and you believe that they can sell vanity pet in spite of this, you really need to get some help.
Big appeal to social revolution. We are all responsible for supporting the biggest evil in the history of gaming development, and when this final evil boss pops up, we will have to send in a good team of 2 tanks, 4 healers and 25 DPS to try to kill him. Oh great deal. "hallow victory .. since the genre ... be lost". Hmm you must be too deeply involved in fantasy and is bringing that into your RL.
Its a game, god damn it. We will not lose our index finger when Blizz change its game.
Meanwhile back in the tallest office of the Blizzard Tower a man wearing a labcoat and holding a blue dossier 3 inches thick makes his way past the endless cubicles that make up the legal division on this multi-floored building avoiding eye contact with any of those that inhabit them and thus not allowing them to even raise a suspicion on the contents of the dossier.
Reaching the end of the hall he finds a two gigantic doors that seem to be made out of solid gold with the Blizzard logo on one of them and the dollar on the other; he's pouring sweat as he very reluctantly reaches reaches for the button of the intercom but before he actually manages to ring it a buzzing sound is heard from it and a deep booming voice is heard from it:
"ENTER !!!!! I've been expecting you......"
He tries to find some saliva to swallow but his mouth is dry, fear grips his heart and every ounce of his survival instinct tells him to run away as fast as possible but it's too late the doors open slowly, strngely enough without the slightest sound that a door this size might make ; he enters the office reluctantly like an animal that first enters an alien and foreign to it habitat of some superior being. And there past the various nefarious objects in the office,behind the mahogany desk with ivory decoratings on it desk, standing against the window the dark shape of the man in charge, the Blizzard CEO.
"S-s-sir i b-br-brought you the......"
The man in the labcoat muttered but before he has a chance to finish the booming and commanding voice of the CEO says
"I know...leave it on the desk and BEGONE !!!!!"
The man in the labcoat does so and then leaves taking a couple of graceful bows as he quickly makes his way to the exit before the giant seemingly golden doors shut and trap him inside.
Th CEO approaches his office pours himself a glass of the finest 15 year old scotch in his cabinet below the desk and takes a sip,lights a cuban cigar ,picks up the report and after finishing reading it says to a seemingly empty room
"Hmmmm,experiment #13567 has successfully began in the MMO industry ; actually offering people nothing in exchange for something........
Lets see how the subjects react................." *lightning flashes* *thunder cracks*
To be continued..........................................
If it's just a game, why are you swearing?
Security Token sales,pet sales...I think "IF" Blizzard was sincere about helping a charity and not some great PR move,they could have easily donated the ENTIRE cost to charity.If this was the case,i would say 50% it it was a sincere move and only 50% PR lol.Not the case,so there has to be eyebrows raised.
He didn't write it for his audience. He wrote it for his clients.
Gaming sites don't serve their members. Unless they are paying members.
I was being polite. But yeah, I figured out where his interests were when MMORPG.com listed Travian and Evony. :-(
If it's just a game, why are you swearing?
I am swearing because people are talking about some changes in a pricing model of a game, in such proportions as if it is the end of MMOs or even end of gaming. High morals, greed, everything thrown into the pot, when all that actually have occurred is just one more company offering to sell something that everyone agrees is purely cosmetic.
I wonder, if, I mean IF, Blizz announces sales of an epic sword next week, the same whinners might carry a machine gun and seek out Blizzard's headquarters and ...
Another sweeping personal judgment.
So by your argument, anyone thinking of donating to any charity should not stop at 50% of this measure or that. What should they do, either no donation or 100%.
Charity is one consideration, business is another, shareholder interest vs clients vs charity vs competition vs .... Everything is a compromise. Giving everything to charity? What will the shareholders say?
If you do not know the art of compromise, oh well ... be an extremist. Except that, extremist never work well, except during extreme moments. Blizzard charging $10 for a cosmetic pet is not yet world war 3.
...and you getting upset about it prevents that somehow?
You see, I can understand people getting upset about the 500-pound gorilla changing his behaviour. It scares us that the game we enjoyed is going to hell, and might take most if not all, other MMOs with it.
I don't understand why people who don't mind the RMTs are getting upset. Unless they have a financial interest in how these games perform.
And what is anyone going to do about it?
Absolutely. Nothing.
Or...stop playing MMOs? Best of luck to ya.
The rantings of people that are not only addicted to a genre of games, but when not gaming, must sit on forums discussing those games...they know when they got someone hooked. And if someone isn't subscribed, and complaining about it...why would Blizzard care about non-customers?
Well I would say that posting on a major MMORPG site and stating your opinion that this is a bad thing and that you need to stay away from MMORPG that does it I would say is doing something.
Creating a discussion can be more powerful than people think...
And what I am trying to say is, for you current and future WoW customers, think about what you are doing. Are you sure you want to support a company that made 2 billion profit last year but still are pushing for RMTs on their already subscription based models?
At some moment you as a customer needs to say No. And by quit supporting those companies is certainly a good way of saying No.
NO. Corporations DO have a *responsibility* to make the best profits possible. That inherently includes decisions that can impact the long term bottom line. Those that rant and rave about appeals to emotion like "greed" either have an ideological agenda, or are terribly ignorant of how business systems and markets operate in the real world. No one is being forced to purchase those *vanity* pets. They are simply being made available to those who *choose* to purchase them. The hysteria of those raving about this trivial issue would be wildly funny, if it wasn't so pathetic.
No shit Sherlock. Yes Corporations have a responsibility to make profits. That's usually done by making a good game. Since WoW has long neglected that basic side of the equation we now see this. First vanity pets, second epic gear. It's all good in the name of the almighty corporation making an honest buck. Until you realize that you have a playerbase based on a subscription based principal. Not a Sub + RMT. So it's all fine and dandy now. Go buy your pets to your hearts content all while paying your monthly sub fee. Just know that me and a lot of others in this thread know it will not stop there. So you maybe win the argument at this very moment, but mark my words, you and every supporter in this thread is going to be named in the future when the real change goes live. It will be a hallow victory though since the genre, as we know it, will be lost.
Oh, woe is me! The very sky is falling...All is LOST!... Or perhaps not. Do you guys have any idea how silly some of you are sounding? I've long said that the only real threat to WoW is Blizzard itself. But given the hysterics that some have engaged in, do you really think they are going to sell weapons and armor? I seriously doubt it.
He didn't write it for his audience. He wrote it for his clients.
Gaming sites don't serve their members. Unless they are paying members.
Nonsense. Gaming sites, like MMORPG.COM, live on ads. But if noone visit their sites (that is us members and other non members) then they wont be getting any ads.
Think one step ahead please...
Yes, I noticed that myself. Fiendishly clever that Jon is
Then our "hysterics" is working then is it not?
Will you quit if they do, or will you defend that as well?
Then our "hysterics" is working then is it not?
At providing entertainment to the rest of us? Certainly.
...and you getting upset about it prevents that somehow?
You see, I can understand people getting upset about the 500-pound gorilla changing his behaviour. It scares us that the game we enjoyed is going to hell, and might take most if not all, other MMOs with it.
I don't understand why people who don't mind the RMTs are getting upset. Unless they have a financial interest in how these games perform.
First I do not love a game, I played it, its just another game, like basketball, or grilling at the backyard. Its off time activities.
WoW is a product by a company, if they change their pricing I examine it and see if I need to shop for alternates. Much like new cars on sale, or new pricing/discounts. Fact is, most likely it does not affect me, and I will not worry about the world coming to an end.
I am just annoyed at the wisdom of the big doomsayer, magnifying trivial incidents to world war status. Frankly, the moment I shut down this browser and head out, nothing discussed here will be left in my brain. All forgotten, same for WoW. The moment I log out of WoW or any game, its end of a session. The moment I finish my bodybuilding I go for a shower, and its over.
Ciao. Logging off browser.
Will you quit if they do, or will you defend that as well?
If they start selling weapons and armor? Sure. But I suspect pigs will fly long before then.
Good point.
There was a big stink about the cash shop in CO. I know - I was in the middle of it.
The only game-affecting item for sale so far is the retcon (respec). If such a big stink hadn't been made, there might well be more such items for sale.
PR works both ways. Aion removed Game Guard from the release version (well, de-activated it, really). After a big stink on the boards about it.
Umm sorry young gamer,they follow SOE's move like sheep,why do you think we pay subscription fees?What do you think Blizzard has been doing with WOW all these years?they have been copying/following EQ.WOW would have 100% been a F2P game if not for them seeing how SOE pulled it off with EQ.
Blizzard is afraid of their own shadow,that is why they put Starcraft on/off so many times,i guess it took multi billions before they got brave enough to follow through,even still it is just a spin off of SC1,no creativity.The only following that is done is gamers following the crowd to play WOW.
When i see Blizzard make a move that shows they have some balls of their own,i will be the first to let you know.It would not surprise me one bit after the success of Free Realms ,Blizzard tries to copy it and bring out their own childrens mmo game.
Blizzard is maybe the ONLY large money making developer without a decent game engine?Epic games has 75 employees and has arguably the best game engine today.Square Enix just made their new game engine,heck even SOE updated Everquest 2.I believe it was Runescape that did the graphic over haul??Geesh even that real life themed game did a brilliant engine over haul,somebody posted it in these forums about 3 weeks ago.Geesh almost every single F2P game has a better engine than Warcrafts.Your results are limited by the game engine and the results truly show.
Trust me ,Blizzard does VERY little LEADING in the game industry,they are still a small follower with a lot of money.Heck there has shown to be more aggressive developers that have left Blizzard than what Blizzard is pulling off.
There is no WOW to copy/follow,WOW is EQ1.5,they are all following SOE's leads.Remember all that SOE hate/bashing over RMT??/lmao was there ANY doubt Blizzard was following ??I think it is about time Blizzard quit hiding behind SOE and take some steps of their own,i mean they have the money,they are grown men..i think.
He could have gotten big traffic by trashing the RMT shop, too.
Lol. The entire idea of an MMO is we pay money for basically nothing in return then fairly mindless entertainment....
Unlike a movie, or cable TV, or going to a football game.
MMOs provide more intellectual stimulation than any of those.
He could have gotten big traffic by trashing the RMT shop, too.
No doubt. One must be well rounded. ^^
If I thought change came out of the blue and had no precedents I would have the views of Mr Wood.
But I do not, and predicting the future based on the present and past is what humans do. If you think it will stop at fluff I hope you are right but I think you are being naïve.
Excellent article, and very well put. The cinema analagy was a great way of illustrating your point.
Look on the brightside, at least you don't have to go to Blizzcon to get your 'special' pet anymore :)
I agree with the article. Blizzard isn't really doing anything new. Buying TCG cards to get an ingame mount is the same idea. But I do think that the uproar will stem (if any was planned) any unnerving microtransaction ideas. Champions Online is a game that completely turned me away because of that fact. When I have to pay real money to respec my character in WoW, then I will worry. =P
There is no way I'm reading 13 pages, sorry... but...
For me this whole discussion revolves around the reasons. Why move to an itemshop scheme at all? I know This is not what Bliz are doing, but the article accuses everyone of over-reacting, but I just don't see why there is a need to change the sub scheme at all. The most commonly used excuse is "because it makes things even, some people playing 2 hours a wekk pay the same as those playing over 50", I'm sorry (and please excuse the quote - thanks Rob) 'but the level of naivety required to beleive this is rarely seen outside of 70's porn films'. I'm supposed to beleive that the board of a company gives 2 shits about being fair to players, who are already paying them? Yeah I can see that meeting now - CEO "The thing is I think we are chargeing these people too much, they are giving us just too much money, we should work out a way to reduce their payment".
Itemshops/malls are just a way to make more money out of the players, it works exactly the same way as actual shops, it relies on people being thick and not noticing how much they spend to fleece them out of more of their cash than a static monthly sub currently does.
Having said that then, why have the pet shop? In this case they are still going to be charging a sub so it's a straight out revenue stream, well Bliz is a company it's function is to generate income. But think about it, basically they are adding content in a game that poeple bought and pay a subscription to and then they are charging for that content. Does that seem right to anyone? Sorry, but imo pick one payment plan or another, don't have them all that's just taking the piss. And to say this content is just fluff is ignorance, 95% of the game is fluff, it's about character progression and escapism not how much money you want to dump into your hobby. It's a slippery slope and imo this is already way too far down it.
Having said all that I don't and never will play WoW, so my opinion is completely null and void I guess.
Giving part of their newly discovered way of milking the cow to charity is only an attempt to prevent the loss of goodwill, but comes accross as cynical and causes them to loose even more goodwill. For some this may even be an eye-opener. Blizzard is no saint.
Glad to see that wow makes mmorpg.com users blood boil. It shows that most of us are former wow-junkies (or current) that has a huge grudge against the game :) Comon guys, is this really so bad?
When I saw this article I had some thoughts and then I saw that there were 35 pages of comments in reply. I'm not about to sit through and read all 35 pages of it so forgive my ignorance if the points I'm about to cover have already been discussed.
Much of what I think goes right along with mrwolf who posted before me. You paid for the box and you're paying a subscription fee, the front of the box says "xx Million Copies sold" or something to that effect (I've lost my box since I bought it and the cardboard disc holders don't say it (I just checked)). Now, if you multiply that $15 per month per player by the number of years the game has been out, I'm sure the amount of revenue generated has been more than enough to pay the development team, maintain upkeep of all game servers and helped the development team to put together subsequent expansion packs many times over. So why the need to use an item mall as an excuse to give money to charity?
Are to think that Blizzard isn't making enough money to maintain itself, it's servers, it's staff and it's other projects off of sales of their products (which are quite numerous especially with Diablo III rolling out)? If they feel strongly about the charity, why not just place a tag on boxes that states that a purchase of this game and subsequent payments of already existing subscription fees will, in part, go to x charity?
I'm sorry, but it does seem to me that they (Blizzard) might have a genuine care for the charity but they are going about it all the wrong way. In effect, by creating an item mall containing any items whatsoever (vanity or progression) was an excuse to generate more work for developers, requiring more money to pay them, for no real purpose at all. It also would make the player without the extra cash to spend look rather heartless if they could not summon one of these cuddly pals from the item mall that is supposed to be there for charity. In essence, it creates a smokescreen effect. "If you want money to go to this charity, you'll buy the pet, if you don't, then you don't care and YOUR friends will see that you don't care."
In my honest opinion, it seems to be more of an uncaring company trying to look innocent.
Oh, I'm sure they will still have those, too.
HEy all, give Blizzard a break, after all, they only have 10-12 million subscribers. They are getting low on cash. I swear, have a heart for this poor company. Give more!!
QFE, im not an eloquent man but this puts my thoughts on the "vanity items" excuse quite nicely
One of the better posts in the thread.
For me, RMT takes away that "at play" feeling. An MMO is supposed to be a game you play with others, and there will always be a sense of competing/comparison about how far you progress your character, how you do at collecting things, combat etc. RMT means that the in-game world is affected by out-of-game wealth, and I simply lose interest in being involved. I'd go so far as to say the concept leaves a bad taste in my mouth, not that I can really explain why.
Because it's not fair or sporting to determine the winner of a game by how thick his wallet is.
Since Jons popcorn anology was so stupid Im going to try one myself...
This is like going to McDonalds and buy a Bicmac for $10 and then they charge you an extra $5 to get salt for your fries! And guess what ? We are giving $1 to charity so its OK! :)
IT SHOULD BE INCLUDED IN THE $10 !
You want a straw for that coke? Another $5!
You want a napkin? Another $5
You want a chair to sit on? Another $5
Damn Mcdonalds could make a fortune on this and nobody would complain because being greedy is GOOD!
I wuv the nerdrage here. Soon 16 pages and I belive it will be much longer when the day is over. Blizzard sees a way to earn som more money. Give em a break or do you guys something against a company trying to earn more money from their customer? You will understand their doings when you are in the same position. More mmoney (see what I did there) makes the company and stock holders happier.
ROFLMAO.
The popcorn analogy was way off. Popcorn has nothing to do with the movie at all. A correct analogy would be to equate the pets as the 3d glasses when watching a 3d movie.
RMT has no business with subscription based games when charging at a premium price. If Blizz wants to add a " Cash Shop " then drop the price to $7.99
I really don't get the misdirected anger here. A company puts something in a game that they know some people want and is willing to pay, AND a part goes to a good cause, do not require to buy it and people whine about having it there?
Because, "Down the line, it MIGHT get worse?!"
1. Deal with if and when it arrives to that.
2. You think because you pay a monthly fee for a game you can play WITHOUT any ill effect by said items gives you some right of ownership that you can have a say? Riiight...
You want to start a change? Stop paying for the game, get other like-minded ppl actually playing the game do the same and maybe you'll see something lean towards your way.
IMO however, you won't see anything like this because:
1. You're all too lazy to actually make any commitment to generate a change towards your loudly spoken goals.
2. Many of you probably do not even play the game but like to jump on the 'hate' wagon and justify your dislike of <insert topic here>.
3. Too many people will still play and even pay for said items and that's why they are there....there's DEMAND for them. Just like gold sellers. It's STILL a billion dollar business because as of right now there is still a demand for it, like it or not.
And less money for us makes us less happy. See how that works?
Put a label on the box warning potential buyers that there are additional costs to experience the entire game.
Or be honest and up front and charge $20 a month all included.
With its unique position that is nothing less than a monopoly in the western market, blizzard has more responsibility than any other company. They have the right to do whatever they want, no one denies that, but there is the question of ethics and reprecussion in the rest of the genre. If it is okay for blizzard to introduce cash shops, if blizzard with its 6 milion subscribers (not counting asia) cannot make enough of a profit, how is a company with 100k subs going to to the same? 50k ? When Cryptic introduces a cash shop, you could say it is a policy of one company. When blizzard does the same, it starts to affect the whole genre. Everybody will be allowed and inclined to do it because "the most popular game does it too". There is nothing to stop them but ethics.
What is infuriating about this is that things start to get blurry, you are no longer sure what you are paying a subsctiption for. Everybody used to get the same thing by paying a subscription (that is, maintenance and content updates), but what is now happening is that developers are using your funding to produce content they intend to sell back to you. That is the dirty and sneaky truth about the subscription + cash shop combo. You dont need the minipet - but you paid for its creation and you cant have it unless you pay more. This is totaly not the same as popcorn in the movies. You didnt pay the popcorn twice.
I will stop right there, i dont want to make this too long for i believe i am writing in vain. No one of any importance in the gaming industry will listen to me (certainly not from blizzard) + there are now over 300 comments and i am unsure if mine will even be read by anyone.
I've read it.
Yes, of course MMORPG.com, the bastion of corporate worship, ardent believer in the Church of Record Profits and high priest of consumerism is fully behind the idea of the largest MMO in the world doing everything they can to squeeze every penny out of their loyal subscribers.
How about some tad less obviously slanted biases in opinion pieces and articles. Oh, I guess that's impossible for the website where every available square inch is jammed with advertisements and every front page article is "Brought to you by Dragon Age." (Real smart by the way: Let's plaster the articles on MMOs at this site with a huge distracting advertisement for a rival product! If I owned an MMO production company, I'd tell my marketing department to never deal with this website ever again and to pretend it doesn't exist.)
This website is a freaking joke.
He didn't write it for his audience. He wrote it for his clients.
Gaming sites don't serve their members. Unless they are paying members.
*sigh* Ya know, Gyrus' statement, I personally believe to be incorrect, but at least the statement makes sense. MMO_Doubter, once again you're off base with a nice conspiracy theory. I honestly don't know what else to say to ya on that subject.
In the case of this article, I didn't write it because any advertiser told me to. I didn't write it because I thought it would reflect the opinions of the audience. I didn't write it because I thought it was the opposite opinion of the audience either. I took a subject that was in the news and wrote my opinion on it... Which is the point of a column.
Disagree with me, fine. That's cool. As much as I'd love for everyone to agree with every word I ever say, just because I say it, that just ain't how the world works. So yes, disagree. That's how it's supposed to work when it comes to opinion pieces. I wrote my opinions and backed them up with examples of why I believe them to be true. Some others in this thread have made some pretty good arguments on the other side. This creates a dialogue which, when it comes to disagreements, is the first step toward solving them. Understanding the other side's position is always a good idea.
I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.
Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.
And less money for us makes us less happy. See how that works?
Put a label on the box warning potential buyers that there are additional costs to experience the entire game.
Or be honest and up front and charge $20 a month all included.
You havent lost anything. The thing they are selling is a cosmetic item and will not affect the gameplay, you dont need to buy it to enjot the game. If you are not a collector and want to catch em all- but then you have made your choice. So your point is not binear as you are saying. So your post is plain wrong.
thanks :D
*sigh* Ya know, Gyrus' statement, I personally believe to be incorrect, but at least the statement makes sense. MMO_Doubter, once again you're off base with a nice conspiracy theory. I honestly don't know what else to say to ya on that subject.
In the case of this article, I didn't write it because any advertiser told me to. I didn't write it because I thought it would reflect the opinions of the audience. I didn't write it because I thought it was the opposite opinion of the audience either. I took a subject that was in the news and wrote my opinion on it... Which is the point of a column.
Disagree with me, fine. That's cool. As much as I'd love for everyone to agree with every word I ever say, just because I say it, that just ain't how the world works. So yes, disagree. That's how it's supposed to work when it comes to opinion pieces. I wrote my opinions and backed them up with examples of why I believe them to be true. Some others in this thread have made some pretty good arguments on the other side. This creates a dialogue which, when it comes to disagreements, is the first step toward solving them. Understanding the other side's position is always a good idea.
I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.
Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.
If this is true, then put your money where your mouth is and do away with your corporate sponsorship for just one day. Show us that you aren't ruled by the companies that pay your ad dollars.
I bet you can't do it. I bet there's no way you will ever do it and you and your co-workers are standing around the office sniggering at this post.
How does this site make money? By selling advertising to companies which sell games. Including MMOs with RMTs.
Frankly, given the revenue stream, Gaming sites shouldn't be writing opinion pieces on business practices.
Provide factual information, not subjective opinions.
No the article was out of touch for the vocal minority that already for the most part hated WoW. The majority agree and keep playing the games.
Man. Some of the comments about economics, politics, and other topics truly defy reason or common sense.
Let's see. We've managed to compare this RMT thing to everything except other games at nearly every turn (with a few notable exceptions), including comparing the running of an online game to the running of a fast food joint. We've suggested that we should change our entire government and/or economic system in order to limit the pricing of the products and/or salaries of the personel involved. And as always, every contrary opinion or position has called into question a person's relative intelligence, education, and even moral philosophy, so that we can judge a person wholly by their attitude about this one, singular issue.
Congratulations, folks. I think you've just about reached the proverbial gutter of debate here. Please, do not allow me to stop you, though. The sheer amount of hate and stupidity being flung like so much feces from one side of that ditch to the other has blotted out the sun, in true Battle of Thermopylae style. It is becoming awe-inspiring the depths to which this whole thing has sunk, and the speed with which it got there.
If anyone else wants to sit a ways off and have some popcorn, I'm currently taking bets on how long it will take until someone makes a cliche reference to a certain historical facist organization, on either side of the argument. Unless someone already did that, in which case we can see how long before out-and-out character attacks against posters start that require moderator action.
/popcorn
*sigh* Ya know, Gyrus' statement, I personally believe to be incorrect, but at least the statement makes sense. MMO_Doubter, once again you're off base with a nice conspiracy theory. I honestly don't know what else to say to ya on that subject.
In the case of this article, I didn't write it because any advertiser told me to. I didn't write it because I thought it would reflect the opinions of the audience. I didn't write it because I thought it was the opposite opinion of the audience either. I took a subject that was in the news and wrote my opinion on it... Which is the point of a column.
Disagree with me, fine. That's cool. As much as I'd love for everyone to agree with every word I ever say, just because I say it, that just ain't how the world works. So yes, disagree. That's how it's supposed to work when it comes to opinion pieces. I wrote my opinions and backed them up with examples of why I believe them to be true. Some others in this thread have made some pretty good arguments on the other side. This creates a dialogue which, when it comes to disagreements, is the first step toward solving them. Understanding the other side's position is always a good idea.
I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.
Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.
I really feel for ya Jon. When journalism was considered more an adventure than work, before the interwebz, you didn't need to justify your opinion or columns. You wrote what you thought and felt, because by then you did the legwork needed to get there and deserved the right to be there.
Now, everyone is a writer, blogger, critic, expert in all fields and if they disagree with you, you're <insert derogatory adjective here> because it is easy to do with such anonymity and disrespect. What work have they done to rival your job. Easier to tear apart than constructively do.
You have my support in your efforts, even if I don't always agree, I will respect your opinion.
Keep up the great work!
*sigh* Ya know, Gyrus' statement, I personally believe to be incorrect, but at least the statement makes sense. MMO_Doubter, once again you're off base with a nice conspiracy theory. I honestly don't know what else to say to ya on that subject.
In the case of this article, I didn't write it because any advertiser told me to. I didn't write it because I thought it would reflect the opinions of the audience. I didn't write it because I thought it was the opposite opinion of the audience either. I took a subject that was in the news and wrote my opinion on it... Which is the point of a column.
Disagree with me, fine. That's cool. As much as I'd love for everyone to agree with every word I ever say, just because I say it, that just ain't how the world works. So yes, disagree. That's how it's supposed to work when it comes to opinion pieces. I wrote my opinions and backed them up with examples of why I believe them to be true. Some others in this thread have made some pretty good arguments on the other side. This creates a dialogue which, when it comes to disagreements, is the first step toward solving them. Understanding the other side's position is always a good idea.
I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.
Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.
The problem with the article was that you are telling everyone who disagree with you to QQ... There are alot of good reasons to be upset about this and using stupid anologies is not a good way to argue with us.
I didn't hate WoW. I wasn't playing anymore, because I am completely bored by it due to the difficulty in grouping. I had every intention of buying SC2, possibly D3, and had great interest in what their new MMO would be.
That's all over now.
*sigh* Ya know, Gyrus' statement, I personally believe to be incorrect, but at least the statement makes sense. MMO_Doubter, once again you're off base with a nice conspiracy theory. I honestly don't know what else to say to ya on that subject.
In the case of this article, I didn't write it because any advertiser told me to. I didn't write it because I thought it would reflect the opinions of the audience. I didn't write it because I thought it was the opposite opinion of the audience either. I took a subject that was in the news and wrote my opinion on it... Which is the point of a column.
Disagree with me, fine. That's cool. As much as I'd love for everyone to agree with every word I ever say, just because I say it, that just ain't how the world works. So yes, disagree. That's how it's supposed to work when it comes to opinion pieces. I wrote my opinions and backed them up with examples of why I believe them to be true. Some others in this thread have made some pretty good arguments on the other side. This creates a dialogue which, when it comes to disagreements, is the first step toward solving them. Understanding the other side's position is always a good idea.
I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.
Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.
I really feel for ya Jon. When journalism was considered more an adventure than work, before the interwebz, you didn't need to justify your opinion or columns. You wrote what you thought and felt, because by then you did the legwork needed to get there and deserved the right to be there.
Now, everyone is a writer, blogger, critic, expert in all fields and if they disagree with you, you're <insert derogatory adjective here> because it is easy to do with such anonymity and disrespect. What work have they done to rival your job. Easier to tear apart than constructively do.
You have my support in your efforts, even if I don't always agree, I will respect your opinion.
Keep up the great work!
Yeah, because newspapers never featured "letters to the editor" where people never wrote in to take issue with a thinly constructed opinion piece meant to rankle and cause controversy. Those things were invented with the internet and never existed before.
Here, ladies and gentlemen, is someone who is only aware of the last 15 years of reality.
Indeed. One would expect a 'journalist' to use somewhat better rhetoric than that typical of a forum poster.
"QQ" indeed. Very childish from someone paid to write.
How does this site make money? By selling advertising to companies which sell games. Including MMOs with RMTs.
Frankly, given the revenue stream, Gaming sites shouldn't be writing opinion pieces on business practices.
Provide factual information, not subjective opinions.
You only complain because you want his job ;) Its unfortunate you lack the flexibility and open mindedness to even be considered for a volunteer position on any gaming website. The absolute denseness of the screaming minority here is astounding and it is probably just the usual WoW haters trying to stick it to the man again. As many have said it on this thread, these are virtual items that make no impact to your gaming experience in terms of how well your character plays and what you have access to etc. etc. These are just non-combat pets you can show off to your friends/family. Why does everyone feel like they are entitled to baby pandas and liches? Its just astounding and perhaps a result of Blizzard having given what the customers wanted a little too easily up until now. Sorry to break it to you, the writer of the column mentions nothing new and everybody does have to pay their bills. Now don't go off from attacking WoW to attacking the writer because you WoW haters are already sounding ignorant enough already. It's kind of funny because this is almost like Jon Wood breaking the bad news that there is no Santa and companies are doing it all for the monies! =o
To finish, all I can say is if any of you haters were in Jon Wood's or Blizzard's position, you would probably do it too or probably much worse if you were in the same position (writer for a game website or leader of top MMO in the industry). Then again, you haters probably lack the mental fortitude and capabilities to even make it that far in any career that might even hold a fraction of the responsibility ;)
You only complain because you want his job ;) Its unfortunate you lack the flexibility and open mindedness to even be considered for a volunteer position on any gaming website. The absolute denseness of the screaming minority here is astounding and it is probably just the usual WoW haters trying to stick it to the man again. As many have said it on this thread, these are virtual items that make no impact to your gaming experience in terms of how well your character plays and what you have access to etc. etc. These are just non-combat pets you can show off to your friends/family. Why does everyone feel like they are entitled to baby pandas and liches? Its just astounding and perhaps a result of Blizzard having given what the customers wanted a little too easily up until now. Sorry to break it to you, the writer of the column mentions nothing new and everybody does have to pay their bills. Now don't go off from attacking WoW to attacking the writer because you WoW haters are already sounding ignorant enough already. It's kind of funny because this is almost like Jon Wood breaking the bad news that there is no Santa and companies are doing it all for the monies! =o
To finish, all I can say is if any of you haters were in Jon Wood's or Blizzard's position, you would probably do it too or probably much worse if you were in the same position (writer for a game website or leader of top MMO in the industry). Then again, you haters probably lack the mental fortitude and capabilities to even make it that far in any career that might even hold a fraction of the responsibility ;)
Yeah, anyone who disagrees with an opinion on this site only does so because they want that writer's job. Any more pathetic justifications for this article?
LOL If you even knew anything about the field, you'd know that "letters to the editor" did very little to the inner workings of the actual editing of the newspapers. It took real journalists to weed out those other journalists because of shoddy research and such, not the people reading it.
I'd say your version of reality is as skewed as your failures in it.
Huh? if I were in blizzards position i would never do cash shop but focus on how I can let the customers that are already playing enjoying the game with the possibility to get new ones.
Don;t tell me you think there will only be those 2 pets in the cash shop because that would be stupid.
In my opinion there was no need for an "article" since he;s just defending and not taking the possibility of the many that are wondering what will happen.
...
LOL If you even knew anything about the field, you'd know that "letters to the editor" did very little to the inner workings of the actual editing of the newspapers. It took real journalists to weed out those other journalists because of shoddy research and such, not the people reading it.
I'd say your version of reality is as skewed as your failures in it.
Oh, so now some random anonymous journalism "expert" on the internet is telling me what "reality" really is. Gee guys, I guess I was wrong all the time. The crap spewed in this stupid opinion piece is completely correct!
Hey a pathetic justification in response to the pathetic negative responses to the article. All of you act like Blizzard rules your life and you needs the pet and its hilarious. How can you take any of these seriously? Maybe its because I work for customer service that attends to people nationwide and I get the same responses and I see similar responses here and the funniest thing is, it isn't even a price increase to anything. No one is making you buy these pets nor is it required for anything extra (i.e. raids, instances, PvP BG's etc.). These are really just virtual toys with no value in regards to game experience. So again, are you that entitled to these pets or can you just let it go? ;) You and other haters just come off as childish (and most likely you could be just a child with little to no understanding to how the real world works).
Either don't pay for the freaking pets or the store or suck it up and fork over the cash if you think its so freaking cool. Your subscription only entitles you to the game itself and you have all the access to everything minus a couple virtual items -_- Kids....
*sigh* Ya know, Gyrus' statement, I personally believe to be incorrect, but at least the statement makes sense. MMO_Doubter, once again you're off base with a nice conspiracy theory. I honestly don't know what else to say to ya on that subject.
In the case of this article, I didn't write it because any advertiser told me to. I didn't write it because I thought it would reflect the opinions of the audience. I didn't write it because I thought it was the opposite opinion of the audience either. I took a subject that was in the news and wrote my opinion on it... Which is the point of a column.
Disagree with me, fine. That's cool. As much as I'd love for everyone to agree with every word I ever say, just because I say it, that just ain't how the world works. So yes, disagree. That's how it's supposed to work when it comes to opinion pieces. I wrote my opinions and backed them up with examples of why I believe them to be true. Some others in this thread have made some pretty good arguments on the other side. This creates a dialogue which, when it comes to disagreements, is the first step toward solving them. Understanding the other side's position is always a good idea.
I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.
Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.
If this is true, then put your money where your mouth is and do away with your corporate sponsorship for just one day. Show us that you aren't ruled by the companies that pay your ad dollars.
I bet you can't do it. I bet there's no way you will ever do it and you and your co-workers are standing around the office sniggering at this post.
I agree with a lot of what you wrote and the reaction of many players here is a bunch of b.s propaganda.
WoW has always made money from extra products not related directly to their games. Trading cards, board games, comics etc. They have a successful expansion series which you have to pay for each expansion just to get access to the new areas. What the hell does it matter if they give vanity items in an item shop? Anyone who plays WoW knows these vanity items do nothing to effect your game play. All it does is make you look cool and if someone wants to pay for it then fine. Some fans may love the idea, it's what fans do.
I am against f2p and item malls personally. In this case, it's a harmless way to make money. This is the obvious, any reasonable person can see that.
Jon Wood you shouldn't have to feel as if you owe anyone anything other than your honest opinion. I prefer that honesty as it has stirred up debate and brought so much more attention to another issue gamers must address. "We don't know what we really want. We are simply responding to what is commonly accepted."
If f2p and item mall games were the first kind of mmorpg to come out and became very popular before p2p games came out, I can imagine the anger and hatred that would proceed from gamers if the first subscription based mmorpg would have hit the scene. It might have started flame wars and even if that p2p mmorpg was more polished and offered more features than the f2p mmos, players would hate on it until it eventually survived the chaotic propaganda. Eventually after some brave gamers actually subscribe to the game and like it, the p2p market would have then become more accepted. The people will then follow the trend.
Someone started the flame war about Blizzard's decision to add vanity pets and the popularity to be against it has caught on. Champions Online did it but of course, it's not consider as important. Blizzard has been creating vanity items for years, T-Shirts, Mugs, collectibles etc, and no one dare announced that Blizzard was too greedy over the course of several years. Blizzard is successful and can capitalize on their success provided they are not hurting the game experience. Get over it. If you don't like their merchandise, don't buy it. These vanity pets are just virtual merchandise and quite honestly less annoying than Level 80 Orc T-Shirts.
EDIT: I am not one to apologize for my opinions so don't expect one.
I guess Blizzard's accountants have determined that gouging a few is more profitable than pleasing many.
The math might be a bit off, though - long term.
Failing a change in this policy, I won't be buying SC2, D3, or any other Blizzard products now, so in my case they have just cost themselves a few hundred dollars.
Blizzard has been know for many years for quality PC games. Well, now they are known for something else, as well.
Hey a pathetic justification in response to the pathetic negative responses to the article. All of you act like Blizzard rules your life and you needs the pet and its hilarious. How can you take any of these seriously? Maybe its because I work for customer service that attends to people nationwide and I get the same responses and I see similar responses here and the funniest thing is, it isn't even a price increase to anything. No one is making you buy these pets nor is it required for anything extra (i.e. raids, instances, PvP BG's etc.). These are really just virtual toys with no value in regards to game experience. So again, are you that entitled to these pets or can you just let it go? ;) You and other haters just come off as childish (and most likely you could be just a child with little to no understanding to how the real world works).
Either don't pay for the freaking pets or the store or suck it up and fork over the cash if you think its so freaking cool. Your subscription only entitles you to the game itself and you have all the access to everything minus a couple virtual items -_- Kids....
Where did I ever mention Blizzard or indicate that I care what they're doing? I'm just sick of this website's obvious pro-corporate, pro-mega-profit stance. I'll bet that every bit of this site is whored out for money. I wonder how much a studio pays to be featured in a Top 5 list.
Oh, Doth I offend? Was it not you who first quoted me and commenced with the insults?!
Nice to see that you think opinions other than yours is stupid crap...really puts my own opinion of your future posts in perspective.
Where did I ever mention Blizzard or indicate that I care what they're doing? I'm just sick of this website's obvious pro-corporate, pro-mega-profit stance. I'll bet that every bit of this site is whored out for money. I wonder how much a studio pays to be featured in a Top 5 list.
What? Grow up, make some money and get laid.
Any reasonable person can see that content that used to be provided at no additional charge will be offered in the cash shop instead. A little at first, then more.
Any reasonable person can see that content that used to be provided at no additional charge will be offered in the cash shop instead. A little at first, then more.
That doesn't make sense. Once they charge you for in game items that are not vanity and just for show, flame all you want. Till then it makes NO sense.
EDIT: Have you even played WoW? They aren't recalling all previously earned vanity pets and saying pay for them now. Geez. If you want free clothes, the Salvation Army is still open. Do you not get it?
Well, I figured you were on the same bandwagon of the rest of the negative posters for the actual topic of this thread. I believe this isn't about whether or not MMORPG writers are being paid off by studios to be mentioned in articles. This is about the new ingame store by Blizzard. So excuse me for staying on topic, I would probably suggest you do the same or create a separate thread before you get confused again for caring about Blizzards In-Game store ;)
Hey a pathetic justification in response to the pathetic negative responses to the article. All of you act like Blizzard rules your life and you needs the pet and its hilarious. How can you take any of these seriously? Maybe its because I work for customer service that attends to people nationwide and I get the same responses and I see similar responses here and the funniest thing is, it isn't even a price increase to anything. No one is making you buy these pets nor is it required for anything extra (i.e. raids, instances, PvP BG's etc.). These are really just virtual toys with no value in regards to game experience. So again, are you that entitled to these pets or can you just let it go? ;) You and other haters just come off as childish (and most likely you could be just a child with little to no understanding to how the real world works).
Either don't pay for the freaking pets or the store or suck it up and fork over the cash if you think its so freaking cool. Your subscription only entitles you to the game itself and you have all the access to everything minus a couple virtual items -_- Kids....
Wrong. Its not kids that are arguing about this topic. Its full grown men...full grown men that are taking virutall pets like if Blizzard is our modern time Judas.
Grown men...damn.
edit: when will mmorpg.com delete the 13th number? Like they do in hotels, boats and flight numbers?
That doesn't make sense. Once they charge you for in game items that are not vanity and just for show, flame all you want. Till then it makes NO sense.
EDIT: Have you even played WoW? They aren't recalling all previously earned vanity pets and saying pay for them now. Geez. If you want free clothes, the Salvation Army is still open. Do you not get it?
There are many people that collect those pets and they were mostly gotten ingame now these fellas need to pay to get them? so nothing has changed? right....
Wolf
yes i cry wolf
Cause i see the wolf
Open your eyes to!
This is what it is.. A Item Shop for the game World of Warcraft..
BAD?
It could be!!
It will Be!
Blizzard could Make Mount_Pet_Maker Program That you could use to design your own..
Like the mapmaker for Starcraft II.
Then for a fee you could get your own designed pet or mount added to the game.
Is it bad??
Some will say NO!!
Its a Game! Why not let us do what we want and Blizzard get paid for it.
I played for four years. My subscription ran out a couple of months ago.
I'm not saying old content will be moved to the shop. I'm saying that the kind of content that they used to add without additional charge will be going in there instead.
My objection to this practice has nothing to do with my own ability to buy. I am quite used to spending $100 or more a month on PC gaming.
I really am getting sick of people complaining about these kinds of issues all the time. It's like sitting in a room crowded with little children and they've all just been told that they can't have sweets. So, they have convulsions on the floor, squirming kicking and screaming. Cry all you want, it isn't going to change anything when the cause is so ridiculous and pointless.
Business is business. Welcome to reality. There are lines that should be drawn and never crossed, but this isn't one of them. Now, go have a nappy.
[ Mod Edit ]
And the fun part its not children that are crying now. Its adults. A psychology would probably say somthing about they are behaving like this is besuse they miss something from their youth.
If you don't like people expressing their opinions don't look simple.
I for one believe its funny and I like to read all the hate this subject gets from this "community". Soon 400 posts about this subject and most are quite hateful.
I think the sheer numbers of posts on this subject really show how strongly people feel about this subject . This is over a couple of pets imagine the day Blizzard expands on it and includeds far more contentuous items to its item shop . I think even for the most ardent fan of WoW there will be a point when such a thing is unacceptable .
That doesn't make sense. Once they charge you for in game items that are not vanity and just for show, flame all you want. Till then it makes NO sense.
EDIT: Have you even played WoW? They aren't recalling all previously earned vanity pets and saying pay for them now. Geez. If you want free clothes, the Salvation Army is still open. Do you not get it?
There are many people that collect those pets and they were mostly gotten ingame now these fellas need to pay to get them? so nothing has changed? right....
No, nothing has changed. They didn't add a price to the old vanity pets you can still earn in game. To tell you the truth, this idea could have been added in the begining (charging for vanity pets). Vanity pets are pointless but makes more sense if someone actually paid real money for it. I still have the Blizzard Bear and I often have that follow my Hunter around. It changes NOTHING about your charcter's ability to perform in game.
If they made more cool vanity stuff, that would be the only extra merchandise I would consider getting. (Mugs, T-Shirts and all the other stuff is just corny). I would never leave the house with a level 80 Hunter T-Shirt but a cool companion that does nothing but looks nice would be cool. Paying for mounts, items, potions, etc isn't cool, vanity pets are. Pointless, but nice.
That's a gross generalization. I'm glad we're all so grown up that we make these to try and belittle the argument another person. That's pathetic. You know better than that.
I stand by this, "there are lines that should be drawn", for everything. This includes what is deemed to be plain ridiculous. Crying about a business movement made for the *gasp* purpose of making money, yet still complying to good business, is where the line is drawn. And players wonder why game companies are listening to them less an less.
Lame, old arguments combined and transformed into a semi-fancy worded article by someone who does not matter at all.
Anyone could write the same, in fact, they did, but their opinions don't shout as loud as those of a guy whose job is to write for an MMO website in boring and uncatchy English.
Now he would think that his reference between micro-transaction and zebra is smart, but it's a horrible analysis. People don't compare the announcement to the micro-transaction, they assume that the announcement LEADS to transaction, this guy is writing a column here for a reason, and it might just be too obvious for me to even talk about.
Sorry if the focus of this post is shifted, what I want to say was, it's obvious that people over-reacted to the announcement, but on the other hand, this guy is no genius, anyone could have figured this out without his awesome column. On the other hand, who is he to disprove the other argument without further proof? Continuously comparing components of WoW to movie tickets and apples and zebra doesn't prove that your argument is any more accurate than the opposing reasoning, so this mighty Jon Wood is just another forum poster, in my goddamn opinion. SORRY "MY FRIEND".
That reply was as useless as smashing your head into the wall.
No, nothing has changed. They didn't add a price to the old vanity pets you can still earn in game. To tell you the truth, this idea could have been added in the begining (charging for vanity pets). Vanity pets are pointless but makes more sense if someone actually paid real money for it. I still have the Blizzard Bear and I often have that follow my Hunter around. It changes NOTHING about your charcter's ability to perform in game.
If they made more cool vanity stuff, that would be the only extra merchandise I would consider getting. (Mugs, T-Shirts and all the other stuff is just corny). I would never leave the house with a level 80 Hunter T-Shirt but a cool companion that does nothing but looks nice would be cool. Paying for mounts, items, potions, etc isn't cool, vanity pets are. Pointless, but nice.
So just because you don't care about vanity pets everyone that collects them should agree with you?
Gathering vanity pets is a good way to stop doing always the same things everyday, like people that collect achievements there are others that like the collect the vanity pets what's the problem with that?
I never said the old vanity pets will be in the cash shop but if you really think they wasted hours or days to create a cash shop to have only 2 pets in it you must be fooling yourself they will add more pets in the future and god knows what else. Before the cash shop these stuff were added as extra content for those that like to get everything when playing but now there will be some that will be in game the best ones (cooler,ecc) must be bought talking about greediness....
So just because you don't care about vanity pets everyone that collects them should agree with you?
Gathering vanity pets is a good way to stop doing always the same things everyday, like people that collect achievements there are others that like the collect the vanity pets what's the problem with that?
I never said the old vanity pets will be in the cash shop but if you really think they wasted hours or days to create a cash shop to have only 2 pets in it you must be fooling yourself they will add more pets in the future and god knows what else. Before the cash shop these stuff were added as extra content for those that like to get everything when playing but now there will be some that will be in game the best ones (cooler,ecc) must be bought talking about greediness....
Aww, QQ. You have obviously lived a sheltered life.
But no one said you were entitled to them either. Its not like these things are gear and again like you said, these are extras! It just these particular pets you have to pay because they are a business and they are in it for the money in one way or another. Sure call it greediness, I call it business as usual. Greediness would be increasing subs from 15.99 to 20.99 in my opinion. Its this sense of entitlement for everything that really does make people like you look sad. I actually do care about pets and like having them. Sure 10 dollars for a good cause, I might buy it and probably more for the charity itself than the actual pet, the pet is just a bonus.
I think another thing to note here is that the people crying are trying to cry over something based off an assumption. Do you think they are really going to put every vanity thing onto the item shops now for money rather than make you earn it? Seriously? No, they're going to add stuff they feel should require people to pay and they are going to still add other vanities that will require you to earn them by various methods. They still will reward the same old and new holiday/special events one. Think realistically people rather than exaggerate the situation here. They do have to think about the customers while doing this after all so quite assuming because you are only making an ass out of you and me here ;)
So just because you don't care about vanity pets everyone that collects them should agree with you?
Gathering vanity pets is a good way to stop doing always the same things everyday, like people that collect achievements there are others that like the collect the vanity pets what's the problem with that?
I never said the old vanity pets will be in the cash shop but if you really think they wasted hours or days to create a cash shop to have only 2 pets in it you must be fooling yourself they will add more pets in the future and god knows what else. Before the cash shop these stuff were added as extra content for those that like to get everything when playing but now there will be some that will be in game the best ones (cooler,ecc) must be bought talking about greediness....
Dude (if you are not a guy, excuse the slang), do you NOT have enough vanity pets in WoW to collect? They don't owe ANYONE anymore items that they have put years into packing the game with. We have several years of content and free vanity items they gave away and are still giving away. Just for transfering your account to Battle.net, you get a free pet. Geez be thankful. Those pets are still there. If they want to add new ones that only people with cash can get, it's all good with me. It's the only item mall idea that makes sense. Blizzard has been good to me although I don't play WoW as often anymore, they've done good.
Okay Okay Okay Okay
So Blizzard has an ITEM SHOP
That is what all of this is about!!!!!!
ITEM SHOP
but excuse me
The name they called it was ===== PET SHOP
so i Over looked that
IS a PET SHOP an ITEM SHOP?
No a PET SHOP is not an ITEM SHOP
so i guess Blizzard has now enter a new Thing in the game..
PET SHOP = A place to buy PETS
Could The PET SHOP turn into a other type of shop? YES!
We as players are at THE POWERS TO BE! (Blizzard)
Without US! Blizzard is no more!
if over 50% of players wants the PET SHOP we will get the PET SHOP with lots of PETS
There is no vote!
We have no say! except to quit the game and go somewhere else...
Blizzard is a smart Company they have seen the way we in game React to our beloved Pets!
John, my boy, I've never seen you lay down such a fantastic line of absolute B-S in the many years I've been coming to this site. Well done. I don't think a Blizzard employee could have put it better, but then, after reading this, you are on their payroll, aren't you?
RMT DOES NOT BELONG IN A SUBSCRIPTION-BASED GAME.
I don't know if I can make this any more clear. If I could put the above statement in blinking marquee (my least favorite web-technique ever used in the 90s), I would.
"Vanity"-anything is a part of your subscription. You are paying for those features - the development, testing, and release - with your subscription. The fact that these pets have no statistical or "bonus" value is irrelevent.
The next step is, of course, something like new armor skins. Imagine being able to hide your lowly Tier whatever armor using these new armor skins... they will make your old armor look better than the latest gear drops! "No, they don't offer statistical benefits, so we're not giving players an edge over other players, just allowing them to change the look of their equipped gear." Extrapolate indefinitely and you see where this will go.
RMT is a perfectly viable model to provide the SOLE funding for a game. Allowing a subscription option with a monthly allocation of RMT points, a la DDO, also makes sense. What Blizzard/SOE/etc are trying to do is set very small precedents and allow them to settle in now, creating a mental acceptance for the players so they can incorporate more of these features in the future.
If anyone throws out the whole server transfer/character rename line, I'll smack them with a wet fish. That argument holds no weight and is irrelevent for the purposes of this conversation.
Ok I get that vanity pets are no big deal.
I get the slippery slope item shop argument.
What I don't get is why people don't know this is going to be a long protracted fight and you're better off picking your battles than sounding like a bunch of chicken littles? Some games are going to institue item shops. It's inevitable. If you don't like that don't play them. Your money means more to companies than your words. If enough people play games with item shops you're not going to stop them from becoming standard. As much as I deplore that it will happen if enough people want it. I hope most people don't want them. Your time is better spent trying to convince, not yell at call names or deride but convince, customers that they shouldn't play games with item shops. To yell at companies for wanting to make money is just pissing into the wind.
Says who? What law are you looking at? Is there something you have found deep inside the human mind? Damn you guys that wants your belifes to be something that the rest of us have to go with.
RMT does belong to the game that can embrace it. Deal with it our just turn your back. Easy as that.
Hey kiddies, quit with the emo-rage. Don't like what Blizz is doing with your game, cancel your subscription. Anything else is just nerd rage...
Says who? What law are you looking at? Is there something you have found deep inside the human mind? Damn you guys that wants your belifes to be something that the rest of us have to go with.
RMT does belong to the game that can embrace it. Deal with it our just turn your back. Easy as that.
Only a complete tool would indicate they actually WANT to spend more money for the sake of spending more money. That's what this is about - not content, gameplay, fun - money. Yes, we all know companies are in the game business to make money. However, saying we should go along with RMT systems when a subscription-based model is already in place is like saying you don't mind walking around the street with your wallet falling trailing on a string behind you. You're just asking to be robbed and taken advantage of.
Try again.
Blizzard will not introduce item mall or cash for resources for WoW at least. I believe they are smart enough to know better. Blizzard is making a LOT of money from subs and I doubt they would ever want to change the good thing they got going. What you see happening is a creative way to make more money from their fan base, simple. This isn't a cheat, an exploit or a downward demise of the mmorpg genre.
I have a major problem with f2p games and item malls, but they are there and players are supporting their efforts (perhaps not financial support) but their demand for getting what they want for free is ruining the business. Vanity pets are not. It doesn't support an unfair advantage either.
To explain this any further is pointless. I would rather players who play WoW start complaining about the other merchandise they charge real money for you to have, Mugs, T-Shirts etc and start there before getting bent out of shape because Blizzard (like Mr.Crabs) likes money.
Vanity pets are virtual merchandising, not cheating.
So just because you don't care about vanity pets everyone that collects them should agree with you?
Gathering vanity pets is a good way to stop doing always the same things everyday, like people that collect achievements there are others that like the collect the vanity pets what's the problem with that?
I never said the old vanity pets will be in the cash shop but if you really think they wasted hours or days to create a cash shop to have only 2 pets in it you must be fooling yourself they will add more pets in the future and god knows what else. Before the cash shop these stuff were added as extra content for those that like to get everything when playing but now there will be some that will be in game the best ones (cooler,ecc) must be bought talking about greediness....
Aww, QQ. You have obviously lived a sheltered life.
The person you quoted had a well though out post and you respond with garbage. Obviously your shallow mentality can't understand why others wouldn't want to pay more for things they normally use to get with patches and expansion. You need to take your own advice and also stop using childish "QQ" symbols that you think make you look cool.
To be fair, use of "QQ" was good enough for the paid writer of the original article.
So much for standards.
Actual, vanity pets represent an initial step in redefining what a subscription entitles you to in a game. I have no true sense of entitlement, except that I expect my monthly subscription to allow me to FULLY enjoy all aspects of a game. I consider that subscription price to be an all-in, all-you-can-eat-buffet-plus-drinks-and-desert price. Will I buy an expansion? Of course, assuming it provides content and/or functionality that enhances my experience. Expansions have to justify themselves on a cost-to-benefit ratio; you wouldn't spent $30 to add one new dungeon, would you (I guess some people might given the content and rewards for that dungeon...).
Can these pets be obtained in ANY fashion in-game? Or are they "exclusive" to the pet shop? Convenience (aka, allow people with money to obtain the same things that people with time can get) is fine, but exclusivity is not.
At the end of the day, it isn't about the pets. It is about the system itself.
*sigh* Ya know, Gyrus' statement, I personally believe to be incorrect, but at least the statement makes sense. MMO_Doubter, once again you're off base with a nice conspiracy theory. I honestly don't know what else to say to ya on that subject.
In the case of this article, I didn't write it because any advertiser told me to. I didn't write it because I thought it would reflect the opinions of the audience. I didn't write it because I thought it was the opposite opinion of the audience either. I took a subject that was in the news and wrote my opinion on it... Which is the point of a column.
Disagree with me, fine. That's cool. As much as I'd love for everyone to agree with every word I ever say, just because I say it, that just ain't how the world works. So yes, disagree. That's how it's supposed to work when it comes to opinion pieces. I wrote my opinions and backed them up with examples of why I believe them to be true. Some others in this thread have made some pretty good arguments on the other side. This creates a dialogue which, when it comes to disagreements, is the first step toward solving them. Understanding the other side's position is always a good idea.
I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.
Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.
Let me ask you this, why is it that we never see an article from any of the correspondence on why RMT isn't a good thing? Just curious, do all you guys just love RMT and can't wait for it to infest all games? I would rather pay a higher monthly fee, but I will never play a sub game with RMT tacked on.
Where in the contract we signed before playing this game did they say that Vanity was "part of the subscription"? The no statistical/bonus value of these pets are relevant because it shows that you are in fact NOT entitled to these items and these items are not even close to being necessary enough to affect anyone's game experience.
Sure you can extrapolate this into armor skins and other vanity type features you want to speak of, but so far, it hasn't happened, so again, you already imply that it is an assumption being made when you have to extrapolate the concept (and you only assume if they even charge for the new armor skins, they can also very easily make it available for free through quests, gold and other methods.) Again, just because they release a couple of pets right now doesn't mean all vanity features will be released in similar fashion in the future. More conspiracy theories for the lose.
When you go into your argument about RMT being viable which leads into yet again, more assumptions about Blizzard and their evil intentions. Yes, this is one big psychological game Blizzard is doing with WoW by making us mentally accept something small to EXTRAPOLATE (Sesame Street word of the post) it into bigger things for the future. And when you use words like viable that just means is RMT capable of actually working in a subscription game and in Blizzard's case, yes it can and it has worked for all its other features thus far I'm sure. This will be no different because for every 1 of you, theres about 10 or 20 willing to actually pay for the pets and not cry about it.
Ultimately, your post was one big assumption about Blizzards intent and rather wait to see if they actually do it, you just jump the gun and assume thats what they're doing and imply that this is one big psychological war between the customers and Blizzard.
EDIT: I agree with zymurgeist, in that complaining about companies looking for ways to make more money is just pissing in the wind.
It's more like history repeating itself. First SOE, then Cryptic and now Blizzard, following the exact same pattern, from "harmless" additions to the RMT cash shop, to game altering ones. It's only a matter of time really.
Speaking with a voice of reason to a usually feaverd mass, who has pitchfork and torches quick at hand and already foam at the mouth whenever a sentence contains "WOW" or "RMT" is keen. A daring, honorable effort.
Ok, now ready the tar and feathers... ;)
Since the pet offers no in-game advantages, there is no issue here really. For myself, anyone I saw with such a pet I'd consider a fool separated from their money.
So, you would pay a higher monthly fee to have access to everything possible rather than a cheaper sub with RMT (even if its just vanity items?)? Behind what reasoning? Is this about money? Or is this about something else like the dignity of MMO gamers around the world? I don't understand this because if what you are saying is true, a possible separate higher subscription price to have access to everything in the RMT could also be another venue Blizzard can take to make money off uneducated folks like you ;) If I were a company, I would start working on this right away if more people are following this type of thinking lol.
It's more like history repeating itself. First SOE, then Cryptic and now Blizzard, following the exact same pattern, from "harmless" additions to the RMT cash shop, to game altering ones. It's only a matter of time really.
Again, if you learn to really read between the lines or maybe the actual quote you responded to/with, then you would understand where the "jumping the gun" part falls into play. Wait until they actually provide game altering items/features in their item shops before screaming for wolf here. Until then, the arguments and assumptions are pointless, you are just assuming the worst here. Let me know when it happens and perhaps I'll join you in your sentiments. Until then, as I have been saying, it all just looks childish and hilarious at the same time. The saddest part of it all, these posts are all coming from grown adults as has been mentioned earlier in this thread with responses that almost sounds like its coming from 5 year olds.
This fascination with collecting in-game pets reminds me of a couple of things. Primarily it strikes me as the same kind of mentality that's manipulated by marketers to get children to buy more and more Pokeman-related merchandise, encapsulated by that slogan "gotta catch em all". And the pets are all designed to look like animated stuffed animals. Combine this with the exaggerated child-playhouse graphics of the overall game and it makes one ponder exactly what kind of person Blizzard has designed their game to appeal to.
The fact that they are introducing a purchasable in-game pet suggests that they are looking for new revenue streams because old ones are beginning to dry up. But overall it shouldn't matter to folks whether or not someone can buy an in-game dancing elmo if that's their thing.
Only a fool waits until a sheep has been eaten to cry wolf. You cry wolf when you see a wolf, when you smell a wolf, when you hear a wolf.
You need to drive off or kill that wolf BEFORE the sheep start disappearing. Wolves eat sheep. The first wolf you see might not yet be hungry, but it will get hungry eventually.
Yeah Nestle makes new M&M's because the old ones are not selling well.
Sorry but this is this only time I have ever disagreed with an article on here.
Yes it's ok for an MMORPG to have a cash shop.
...But only if the game is first released with one, no adding one in years later! (Even if the items are few and don't give any bonuses to players other than to fun).
Everyone knows that if this microtransaction works there will be more in the future. And who knows, maybe Blizzard will start adding items that DO give bonuses.
I just think it's funny how Blizzard is using the 50% of the profits go to a charity excuse to make money. If they really wanted to donate money then just do it by using subscription fees.
You could argue this is a good move on there half and that it's ok because they just want to make money and they can't be hated because of that. I say its a dumb move- anything that makes a customer upset is a bad move. No customers=no money.
You make two hugh assumptions. 1) that they will ever sell items and 2) that enough people think like you and will leave the game. I will bet that 50-60% of the people complaining here about it do not play WoW and have no effect on the sub numbers. I have not proof of this, but this will be my assumption.
But they were giving pets away with expacs and patches previously? Maybe some people liked those with there sub fee and box purchases. Sub fee and box fee should include the whole game. Also I will not play a digital store, I want to play games.
Only a fool waits until a sheep has been eaten to cry wolf. You cry wolf when you see a wolf, when you smell a wolf, when you hear a wolf.
You need to drive off or kill that wolf BEFORE the sheep start disappearing. Wolves eat sheep. The first wolf you see might not yet be hungry, but it will get hungry eventually.
If you want to further go into this Wolf eating sheep analogy. Then, I don't know about you less-thought-conscious folk but as for myself, I choose to be the Wolf and Blizzard can be my Sheep ;) If they do anything that I find dissatisfactory, I will cancel my account, but this item shop doesn't even affect me or anyone else directly or their game experience again. Blizzard isn't going to eat us with this cash shop when it really is left up to the customers when and where they spend their money. Please try to understand my post more before responding to it or don't respond at all. You're still coming off as foolish and hilarious ;)
Then again, I have to thank God or gods or whatever religion we like to follow around here that people like you exist to remind myself how much further ahead of the pack I really am. I tend to forget sometimes ;)
EDIT: To sum up my posts in very simple Engrish...This item shop has a couple pets on it which do not affect your game experience. If you do not like it, then don't support it. It does not enhance or take away from anyone's game experience by having/not having it. If the existence of an Item shop really is affecting you that badly, cancel your subscription please so I can enjoy the game that much more by not having you in it. Thank you.
Another EDIT: I wonder are these just Americans (yes I am one too) that are up in arms about this? Because it really shows with all the self entitlement and righteousness flying about in regards to a small item shop releasing virtual vanity items.
Only a complete tool would indicate they actually WANT to spend more money for the sake of spending more money. That's what this is about - not content, gameplay, fun - money. Yes, we all know companies are in the game business to make money. However, saying we should go along with RMT systems when a subscription-based model is already in place is like saying you don't mind walking around the street with your wallet falling trailing on a string behind you. You're just asking to be robbed and taken advantage of.
Try again.
Nice of you to call me a tool just becuse we dont agree. I can only guess that your life outside the screen is rather hard when you have to name others just becuse you disagree with em...Way to handle yourself. And I cant find anything that points to your belief that you h a v e to spend money on the pets to enjoy the game.
And you have to read my whole post. Not only the red text. Read my last line..or wait. No need to it becuse I will quote myself with red so you dont have any chance to miss it. " Deal with it our just turn your back. Easy as that.". Dont like the RMT system? Dont take any part with it, dont support it.
And your example with the wallet...You must have a hard time outside the screen and I would like to see that you dont answer my post becues your answer wont do anything good.
Have a nice weekend
As long as this doesn't take away from the ingame loot, I don't care. I hope they don't start selling XP or ways to make your toon better with out playing the game. The cash shop has put a bad tast in my mouth, but not enough to stop playing...yet.
Wow, really? Why does any of this even cause such a big stink? I can only assume it's because people can't afford the items or something....
It WOULD be something if Blizz was sayin' we'll give you a level for every 10 bucks or Frostmourne for X dollars, but they're sayin' here's a cute lil pet that you can have if you want it, and if you don't, then don't get it...oh and if you get one of them we'll give some of your money to sick kids..
Frankly, I'm guna get both pets, and I'm guna proudly have them out and enjoy them immensely with no feeling of guilt or game breaking side effects, in fact I truly truly hope some of you too young to have a credit card poor and broke whiners send me tells about how dumb I am so I can giggle at your being so utterly destitute. (which is pretty rude of me...I know)
So..hasn't anyone else noticed the other things BLizz is doing for real money? Faction change, Race change, Server change..etc etc etc. All of these happen for real money but nobody is blowing their colon over them, the moment an ITEM gets offered in WoW that the uproarious uber l33ts can't get by grinding their lives away in game is DOOOM DOOM I TELLS YA!
Seriously, get over yourselves.
As for those of you saying this is just the begining they're guna offer more! Yes...you are very likely correct, they will. The battlenet thing is a perfect place to be able to do such things. I would expect many cosmetic and vanity items to come and in fact encourage and anticipate them.
I will be upset if they start selling game impacting things, but I'm not guna even get remotely irate if all they offer is vanity and fun. I just hope they'll offer a mini ragnaros pet that shouts BY FIRE BE PURGED and lights squirrels on fire all the time....I'd stop raiding and just smote squirels...ah..to dream.
Long story short (Too late) get over it, if you can't afford it or dont' like it, don't get it. However I understand this is the internet and I am talking to the Forum browsing WoW crowd, which typically means nerd-raging single white teenage boys with acne and a bag of chips and a mini-fridge with mt.dew next to them at all times. So...meh, you may continue your nerd rage, I hath not the power to prevent...but if I did there'd be a big ol party.
Bingo, you win a prize. A majority of people complaining do not even play the game. A majority of those that are complaining that do play the game will not cancel their subscription. The small few who will cancel their subscription will be offset by the TON of money they make on the pet sales. If they want to charge for vanity stuff, whether it be a pet or a halloween mask or anything else, so be it. Hell, they charge you for a whole bunch of other stuff outside the subscription and they probably make a killing on that too because people buy it (if they didn't, they wouldn't continue to offer it).
One thing I will say, no matter what side of the issue you're on, I think it's absolutely reprehensible to harass those that do purchase these things in the game. Anyone who does should at least be suspended. Remember people, as with any microtransaction, no one forces you to buy anything. Don't attack those who do.
Are you or anyone else being forced to purchase those pets? They aren't called *vanity* pets for nothing. Vanity can be rather expensive...
Yes, vanity pets in WoW are crazy expensive. The pets that are rare loot or take time to grind at the Argent Tournament sell for a nice chunk of IN GAME GOLD. And don't forget the trading card game rares. The rares don't go for cheap and the only way to get them is buy a bunch of trading cards or go to eBay and pay hundreds of dollars.
are you people serious? complaining about something as simple as a vanity pet? seems to me like there are too many crybabies out there whining because they think everything should be free. i personally believe that if it was something at actually affected gameplay, I WOULD BE PISSED TOO. but c'mon. this no different than having to pay for a race change because you decided you wanted to be a BE instead of an Orc or some crap. all cosmetic. they aren't selling some epic or legendary items with infinity bonus damage for real word cash. when they start that, then start complaining. they have been charging for non-essential things for a long time. quit your whining or just spend your money elsewhere.
Nice long range mind reading skill you have there...
I'm betting that the charity involved is VERY happy to have the money, in any event. Blizzard doesn't have to be any type of "saint" to help people like that. It also doesn't matter what their motivation is. The fact remains that the charity will receive money, that they otherwise wouldn't have.
Only a fool waits until a sheep has been eaten to cry wolf. You cry wolf when you see a wolf, when you smell a wolf, when you hear a wolf.
You need to drive off or kill that wolf BEFORE the sheep start disappearing. Wolves eat sheep. The first wolf you see might not yet be hungry, but it will get hungry eventually.
Ah yes... The "wonders" of preemptive attacks... We've seen how that works within the last 9 years now haven't we?... One must always be wary of those who would use *fear* of imaginary wolves for their own purposes...
I really do not see the issue here, Blizzard has been selling game cards that have codes on them that allows people to get items in game and some really cool things at that! So what is the difference? Instead they offer them for sell without all the hassle of buying the cards and hoping you get the code. There really is no difference. But because Blizzard did this...they are teh suck? Get real...they have had this for a long time now, whether you like it or not. It's just been disguised.
NOTE: I didn't read any of hte other repsonders post before commenting so if some one else all ready mentioned this I apologize. Also...I think BLizzard should giove a whole 100% of proceeds from the sells of the one pet to the Make A Wish Foundation. They are selling two pets. One gives them profit and the other goes to charity. That is cool with me.
Sorry, I did not read your post. What did it say?
It does not affect gameplay so who cares. Anyone whining about this needs to have their head examined.
Blizzard is no longer the gaming company it was. It is now only buisness.
If you want to see what true indy gaming companies are doing then try out games like Trine, torchlight and Hinterlands. Pure gaming experince - game made by gamers - for gamers. That was the BLizzard of old. Now you will have to look for it elsewhere.
I do not plan to buy any products from BLizzard again. Cause now I know its no longer about the games - Its all pure buisness.
My money will continue to support gaming. NOT buisness.
They didnt find anything ;(
Sorry, I did not read your post. What did it say?
Dude - there is like a bazillion post on this thread...OMG if I took the time to read all the responses I'd be in an old folks home cleaning my dentures!
I guess the babies care because they are no longer spoon-fed
I guess the babies care because they are no longer spoon-fed
Why not keep this discussion above IQ lvl of 10?
If you need to tell others they are asholes - babies or noobs. Then think what your post will say about yourself.
Reported.
True, but from what I am seeing and personally feel, this is about RMT as a whole more or less. Most don't even seem to have a problem with what WOW is doing at present, they are voicing concern in regard to where they may take this.
The outrage is linked to RMT slowly moving into the P2P model. Which is a justifiable thing to object to IMO. At least a card game is still a game you play to win or lose. When you take that aspect away from your product is it even a game anymore? What gets me is in single player gaming, would you pay RL cash for a single weapon or $1 for a potion? Most wouldn't, why it's done in MMO's is beyond me.
Why not keep this discussion above IQ lvl of 10?
If you need to tell others they are asholes - babies or noobs. Then think what your post will say about yourself.
Reported.
Fair enough, I did sink lower than I should there
It's not like this all started with pets. I mean, they have been charging for server transfers and then faction and race changes. This is all basically the same thing in my opinion. You don't have to pay for it if you don't want to. And it will hardly effect anyone else's game experience. But this is probably just the beginning, which is why so many are scared or irritated. It is the wrong direction for many players who probably believe that, if successful, will only get worse to where eventually they will be offering epic items and gold for sale. Time will tell.
I think paying for new game services like thoose are ok (but still dont like it). No one expected theese thing to be included in the sub and it have neveer been. Pets and things like that have been included in the monthly sub for 5 years and now suddenly they are charging $10 for a stupid pet. Its nothing but a greedy money grab from one of the most loved gaming companies who many of us have grown up with. Box+expansions+monthly sub should cover things like this.
Also pets given from the TCG and Blizzcon are bonuses for a seperate product and is not nearly as bad as an actual store that sells in game items (even if they are only cosmetical).
Because MMOs are extremely competitive. Even if that is only competition for status - represented by vanity items like rare pets. Of course, the bought pets won't be rare, and frankly I would ridicule people who buy them.
I don't mock people with Blizzcon items or even items from the card game, because that money could have been spent on the specified purpose - attending the con, or playing the card game.
I bought the big expensive tabletop game with all the cool plastic miniatures - and the two expansions. No WoW premiums came with those, but I'd use them if they had, since I was buying the game anyway. IF they had been items that gave me any advantage in the game, I would not have used them.
Just to clarify my position - I also oppose Blizzard charging for account services. I have said this before, but I want to make it clear. Those services should either be no additional charge or not allowed at all. Don't give me that 'the charges are to prevent overuse', because it doesn't prevent the rich from using them as much as they like.
But does it really matter if someone bought their super weapon or went killed some boss to get it? WoW is just a game, a bunch of pixels, what happens there is only fantasy, its not real life. Would it ruin my gameplay in all honesty ... no, not a jot.
I play online games the way I want to play them, I don't buy gold or in-game currency, I don't rush to maximum level, I just try and enjoy my time online. What someone else has or doesn't have, or how they achieved what they have, doesn't affect me in any way, my game is still the same. We can't always look around us and feel we have to have what others have, that erodes who we are.
I also agree with this article . The pets are a vanity item , & a poor one at that . Even the associated title that it will help you achieve is a vanity title .
Though many see this microtransaction as the thin edge of the wedge , I am optimistic enough to believe that Blizzard are not fools . They have a huge money making MMO at stake . If they were to introduce RMT items that gave a gameplay advantage , then the stampede away from WoW would be thunderous .
The one niggling doubt that I have is that adding RMT of gameplay advantageous items to a subscription game has been financially successful in the past . CCP introduced PLEX ( a RMT bought timecard that could be sold to other players for ingame money ) into EVEonline & the game is probably more popular now than it has ever been . In EVEonline , having the best ship & implants that money ( ISK ) can buy & not having to worry about the cost of replacing them is a big advantage .
My optimism has waned to wishful thinking as my niggling doubt grows .
Bragging is a big part of social interaction. In real life, and in an MMO. When you play an MMO, you do affect other players in at least a small way - unless you never group, never chat, and never use the AH.
Did you even actually READ the article? Stop putting words in my mouth.
I told people to pick their battles, not QQ. I don't use slang like that in any of my articles. If I was going to tell someone to go cry about it. I would say it in plain English.
No John you are trying to justify blizz jumping on the rmt bandwagon and even worse its a p2p subscription game. Thats is the point and what people are enraged about. Very good reason to cry "wolf" imo. And the stuff about next time...Well this is the next time in a long line of developments in the mmo industry to bleed the player base for rl money..
Interesting though that you are back handedly defending blizz. My guess is you are worried about not getting and interviwéw next time around blizz has something to say.
And as far as games for gamers well it was blizz that coined the term if i remember..
So your article is a horrible example to cover blizzes tracks into the wrip players off trend now going on from rmt to paid betas..
Grrr
bobm111
Bragging is a big part of social interaction. In real life, and in an MMO. When you play an MMO, you do affect other players in at least a small way - unless you never group, never chat, and never use the AH.
so what you are saying is that bragging is a key part of your MMO experience? I don't feel the need to brag in-game or in real life.
I play in a kinship in LOTRO and was always guilded in WoW. I am not sure how I my kinmates and guildmates came by their equipment, but it doesn't affect my gameplay as much as how I came by my equipment affected anyone around me.
The only time RMT could be damaging to a pay-to-play MMO is when you can't reach a destination without paying to get there. If in LOTRO I couldn't access a town without having to buy a pass or such, I would have a huge issue with that. If it became restrictive that would be bad, but the choice to buy a pet or not, or worst case, equipment or not, to me just isn't important.
46 pages on this thread and still going. Maybe people against this aren't really a "minority" if it generates this much discussion (at least in forums, and don't come up with the "true numbers" BS, otherwise we should be all retards that simply accept everything imposed to us without discussion), and I still remember 200+ pages of RMT discussion on CO's cash shop, and Cryptic is so small financially compared to Blizzard.
Selling virtual items for real money in a monthly subscription game is still a very hot issue, there's a reason we still pay a monthly fee when you have hundreds of "free-to-play" MMOs around.
I am honoured that you chose to read my post while ignoring all others, but you really should not have.
I disagree with this article. You pay for a game and expect certain things. Updates and new stuff.
All this is, is to test the waters and see what the market will take. It's asinine to expect people to sit on their laurels while paying for a game and then to get some new shiny stuff you pay extra. I don't care if it's just fluff, you don't expect to pay extra when you're already paying monthly for that fluff. If the customer doesn't show his/her dissatisfaction now, all it will do is show indifference. I can promise you it won't stop as long as people sit back and 'take it'.
really the wrtier of this story pissed me off and i stopped reading ,, he starts off and in the third paragraph or so he says its comparing apples to zebra's then 3 more paragraphs down he compares blizzard to huggies ... so anything written after that i did not read ,,,,, as far as blizzard goes ,, yeah i agree money hungry ... they have a huge subscription base .. and to say they are not making money you gotta be kidding me ... lets see how many celebratity comercial did we see last year and this year ...... ozzy , mr.t , the lil dude . and i know im forgeting some...anyways they advertisment spending is crazy even after the game is very well known ..... goodluck to all you wow players
Did you even actually READ the article? Stop putting words in my mouth.
I told people to pick their battles, not QQ. I don't use slang like that in any of my articles. If I was going to tell someone to go cry about it. I would say it in plain English.
I apologize. I reread the article and could not find that term written there.
It's damaging because it distracts the devs making new content away from subscribers to making new items for the cash shop. Do you think those two new pets would never have been added to the game if the shop hadn't existed? They would be in as quest rewards, likely, and everyone would have a chance at them - without paying extra.
As for paid content - wait and see. DDO is doing it, and we all know how Blizzard likes to copy ideas.
I can't believe this has reached 47 pages. Some of you are taking this way way too seriously. You are overreacting to such an extreme degree that it has long since past the point of being ridiculous...
Yes, Blizzard has adopted some minor RMT in their game. Yes, this could potentially lead to more RMT down the road. But you are taking this much too far.
Like it or not, RMT is eventually going to overtake all other payment models in this genre. It just makes more business sense for companies to allow more opportunities for profit. Those of you who are so adamantly opposed to it are going to be very disappointed in a few years when every game is doing it. So far, Blizzard has done something very very minor that does not effect gameplay or balance in the slightest. None of the items they are offering will give ANY advantage over another player. They have not taken the next big step and extended RMT to more objectionable items... yet.
Until they actually do something worth getting so pissed about, how can this ridiculous debate help anything? This is really no different from the RMT blizzard has already offered for character transfer and recustomization... all of it has absolutely no effect on the abilities of your character. It gives NO advantage of any sort. Like Jon wrote in his article, you are just crying wolf. No one is going to take the community seriously later on if everyone is this up in arms about something so trivial.
Come on people... stop freaking out so much. I think a lot of you need to take a step back and really think about this issue before you start flinging accusations and blindly hating on Blizzard for this. RMT is going to become more of a trend whether you like it or not. It is how each company implements it that is imporant. Blizzard, so far, has been nothing but reasonable in this regard.
I will watch this with interest because the reaction reminds me of the reaction to Spore's DRM on Amazon.
MMO's and MMO gamers are weird...there seems to be a very fine line between sucess and failure in some games.
We have often heard the term "WoW killer"? Maybe Blizzard will do it themselves - IIRC they wouldn't be the first company to kill their own MMO with a game change?
I will watch this with interest because the reaction reminds me of the reaction to Spore's DRM on Amazon.
MMO's and MMO gamers are weird...there seems to be a very fine line between sucess and failure in some games.
We have often heard the term "WoW killer"? Maybe Blizzard will do it themselves - IIRC they wouldn't be the first company to kill their own MMO with a game change?
Who knows what the future brings but having a completely optional pet shop for those who enjoy collecting such things that doesn't change the game one bit won't affect anything.
Well, I never played SWG, but this does bear some similarity to what I have heard about NGE. The devs made a change they knew would drive some players away in order to increase profits.
Its amazing how on these forum so much hate is being thrown around and yet in the game itself pretty much no one gives a shite.
I see this less about hate and more about concern. We will see how this turns out when the cash shop becomes so much more than just for vanity items.
It's damaging because it distracts the devs making new content away from subscribers to making new items for the cash shop. Do you think those two new pets would never have been added to the game if the shop hadn't existed? They would be in as quest rewards, likely, and everyone would have a chance at them - without paying extra.
As for paid content - wait and see. DDO is doing it, and we all know how Blizzard likes to copy ideas.
I can honestly say that I have never linked an item I have won off a boss. Those that had an interest in my success were there at the time and played a major part anyway. I can also state that I have never said 'ding' when levelling, not once.
Maybe I am missing something, but isn't DDO free-to-play now? I thought I heard somewhere that it is ... If so, that would make it not a great comparison to WoW, as their way to make money is to sell content etc in the game itself?
Who knows what the future brings but having a completely optional pet shop for those who enjoy collecting such things that doesn't change the game one bit won't affect anything.
You said it yourself - Optional thing that doesn't change the game ... Would a real gaming company then put it into their game ? No - Buisness company would....
Thats the thing. BLizzard has crossed the line from beeing a gaming company - into a pure buisness company. Where the experince of the gamer becomes second choise. EXTRA money matters more.
Thats the thing. BLizzard has crossed the line from beeing a gaming compnay - into a pure buisness company. Where the experince of the gamer becomes second chose. EXTRA money matters more for them.
This is a huge point, the makers of games are no longer gamers themselves, intent on making a great game, but a business that has to produce a return on investment/equity.
I believe it is optional - F2P (buying content) or full access with a subscription. At first glance, that seems a reasonable method. I still think it might cause biased choices in what content gets added.
You missed the bus buddy. You can't get 'everything in game' just by playing. The first collector's edition had an in-game EXCLUSIVE item, if you want to get that item NOW, you are looking at hundred's of dollars for a mint original WoW collector's edition. Most people buy collector's editions and pre-order packs just to get in-game vanity perks. Everyone does it, getting a perk from BlizzCon or the BlizzCon DirectTV stream is no different from buying a vanity item outright on their website, which is no different from buying TCG codes, which is no different from any other game that has 'pay us extra money and get an in-game bonus'. The big difference here is ANYONE can buy the vanity pets in the store, you have to be in the right place at the right time, or pay extra money for exclusive items like Grunty, Mini-Diablo, etc.
Isnt this EXACTLY how expansions work? They add new content area's... and to get there you have to pay.
The reality is that people have been paying for content since day 1... and then paying a monthly fee use that content (service charge). This is what P2P is all about, charging upfront for the content.
What we are seeing here, is the ability to unbundle the packages, and sell them as separate parts (singles vs albums). The album is a better 'deal' but only if you like all the songs. If only like 1-2 of them, then the singles are better.
Holy f*** WOW has a cash shop... Whoever decided to add this feature is responsible for the future ruination of this game. No game with a cash shop ever survives.
No it dosn't.
I don't have a problem with Blizzard selling stuff to WoW players. They've had RMT for services for a long time.
The number one priority of a corporation is NOT customer satisfaction. That's a falacy.
The REAL number one priority of a corporation is to fleece as much money as possible from players while maintaining the illusion of customer satisfaction.
Of course they'll sell anything they possibly can. It's not a game, it's a BUSINESS. Why would anyone expect otherwise?
Ken
Yeah Eve Online is hurting
No it dosn't.
Actually Blizzard has had a cash shop for a LONG TIME. You can buy shirts, hats, mugs, their limited edition Steins. They also have partners that make really cool products like the Character statues using your in-game character to make a real-world item. If that isn't RMT I don't know what is :)
Right, you don't.
RMT means real money for something in-game.
Yep! Nasty old profit never did anyone any good... Its well that the three games you mention above are being done *only* for the sake of the Art of gaming... I'd really hate to see them tangled up in all of the slimy business aspects of the pursuit of dirty profits...<rolls eyes>...
Right, you don't.
RMT means real money for something in-game.
actually RMT is 'virtual economy'. In the case of the FigurePrints, its taking something you've earned in-game (all the cool gear you're wearing), and realizing it in the real world as a statue.
No. That's not right. 'Virtual economy' is in-game money for in-game items and services.
The character statues are merely a simple real world purchase - real money for a real item.
Actually Blizzard has had a cash shop for a LONG TIME. You can buy shirts, hats, mugs, their limited edition Steins. They also have partners that make really cool products like the Character statues using your in-game character to make a real-world item. If that isn't RMT I don't know what is :)
Then you dont know what RMT is because that's just the blizzard store. The same store where you can buy the new pets.
Its is not the same as what is commonly referred to as a "Cash shop".
Meh, I couldn't care less.
Start selling items with stats, honor/arena points, exp etc and I'll get upset.
WoW is a very well run game in every way, the whole customer experience is great and better than anything I've seen anywhere else. If they get more money to continue making great games with great customer service from selling these pets, then more power to them.
Dont give me a conspiracy theory about this being the end of the mmo world yada yada.
I always thought that someday I might return to WoW, but after this news, I will probably not, it is clear that Blizzard is slowly introducing microtransactions into the game and that is not how I want to play my mmorpg.
If this is an isolated thing, then I have no problem with it, but I forsee this as the first step towards full fledged microtransactions on top of a monthly sub ...
1. Buy the box
2. Pay 15/month to play
3. Buy expansion packs
4. Buy in-game items.
Vote with your dollar people, put this garbage on the curb where it belongs.
"Charging players 2/3s of the monthly sub fee for a single pet is absolutely ridiculous."
-Euphoryk
"Wow Jon, good job at bringing up points such as how this affects the MMO industry as a whole, or how this decision may be just a way to slowly soften people up so that, in a few years, they can start selling other things like increases to stats or XP or weapons."
-streea
Above posts quoted for emphasis.
Greedzard just wants to think of some new way to make more money from what player base they have left, after China banned their game. Paying $10 for a pet is ridiculous. Your average game costs ~$60 and it has hundreds of models and textures in it. You cannot justify that 1 model + 1 texture could possibly cost $10...
Even if it is only optional to buy, Greedzard is basically holding game content for ransom. If everyone was fine with this, they could start charging for all kinds of optional extras - which would obviously start to be the coolest / most desirable stuff. Imagine they did this with the Worgen pet and what-not. Everyone would want one.
In a full priced subscription based game all of the content should be accessible to everyone without paying extra.
Gamers expect micro-transaction based MMOs to have such aesthetic items for sale. No one wants game breaking god-items in micro-transaction games at all. What Blizzard is doing is indeed "double-dipping", because they are adding a micro-transaction mechanic to their full-piced subscription model (no matter if the item mall sells game-breaking items or not).
Seems odd to me that anyone even cares. If your game suddenly DOES fail, this means you have to find a new game. Shame there aren't other games (and other forms of entertainment) in the world.
Not that I agree or disagree with item shops, but essentially all entertainment is wasted time anyway. The fact that you pay for it in any way is a choice you have to make. Fun for money. It's the way of all entertainment business.
And this means that customer satisfaction is often the number one priority of all companies. It is not the number one priority of the people who run those companies. This is the dichotome. Companies like Blizzard are composed of many divisions, and each division has its own goal and direction. The goal of the entire company as a whole is to satisfy the customer (provide entertainment) and make a profit while doing so.
It CAN be an illusion, and be revealed as such. In such a case, we call that a crappy game or crappy game company. See Vanguard: Sage of Heroes for an example of just that. This game failed miserably, despite marketing and a clear focus on making money, because the product was not satisfying at all. To investors or consumers.
But for a non-crappy game and non-crappy game company, the scale upon which we cast judgement is based on the results of the game itself. If a product satisfies customers, and the company does everything it can (within reasonable business practice) to continue satisfying those customers, how is that an illusion? It doesn't matter if the company doesn't "really" want to help people deep down in it's subconscious or some such area. If the result of their actions is customer satisfaction, we are arguing semantics over what they "really" want.
It is not a fallacy to assume that businesses (especially entertainment businesses) should satisfy their customers. It is therefor not a fallacy to assume that businesses, having now an incentive to supply for that demand, will attempt to supply satisfaction to their customers. Yes, a business will sell anything. But this does not necessarily mean they will sell something that does not make sense for that business to sell. For instance, I don't see Blizzard selling sheet metal anytime soon to online gamers. Why? Because there would be no demand for it. Because essentially, customers would not be satisfied with large partitions of sheet metal, and so no profit would be garnered from such a sale. Hence, customer satisfaction fuels profit. Profit is the bottom line to those at the top, and therefor customer satisfaction finishes a close second only when a distinction between the two must be made by the company. But the company as a whole still must put customer satisfaction ahead of the need for immediate profit or they risk losing cash flow and shortening the life of the company.
Profit is not the antithesis of customer satisfaction. Nor is customer satisfaction some "illusion" built strictly for the creation of profit except in the most cynical of views, and even then, it is not necessarily true.
This has got to be one of the best threads I've read on MMORPG.com in a long time... it's frickin' hilarious. Everyone trying to outdo one another with bizarre metaphors and hyperbole of doom. Love it.
This is award winning stuff and i am absolutely loving it. My hats off to MMORPG for accumulating so many pessimistic bottom feeders from the internet, and credit to the op to get them all in one post. 50 pages of pure win and counting!
Says the optimistic guy with a blindfold.
This is the beginning of the end for the game I have grown to love
Looks like my bottom feeder comment hit home. But don't mind me. I am just the blindfolded optimistic guy adding some fule to this ever growing fire, and it appears that my brand of fuel works really well =)
Remember that arena tournament over the early summer? Cost you 20 bucks i think, per person. How many of the thousands of people do you think did that entirely for the murkamus pet? I know 4 people who did the tourney, 3 of us were competitive, but my wife being one of them, really just wanted to have fun, and kinda wanted the pet. The 4th person, was a friend of ours who just wanted the pet. We all took turns helping her get her matches in so she could get them. While doing so, our rating tanked on that team, and we saw dozens of other teams full of 3 naked players, or even one or two teams that was just one person playing all 3 chars (one at a time, presumedly alt-tabbing on one PC) So he too just wanted the pet.
The only difference here is, it's a lot less work, half the price, and half of that goes to a good cause. So if you dont want one, or dont want to pay for one, shut up, move on and find something valid to complain about, ffs people. I'm in complete agreement with Jon Wood on this.
If any of this was mentioned already (which i have a feeling it probably was) I havent combed through the 400+ comments and i have no intention of doing so. Just wanted to throw this out in case nobody had.
You missed the bus buddy. You can't get 'everything in game' just by playing. The first collector's edition had an in-game EXCLUSIVE item, if you want to get that item NOW, you are looking at hundred's of dollars for a mint original WoW collector's edition. Most people buy collector's editions and pre-order packs just to get in-game vanity perks. Everyone does it, getting a perk from BlizzCon or the BlizzCon DirectTV stream is no different from buying a vanity item outright on their website, which is no different from buying TCG codes, which is no different from any other game that has 'pay us extra money and get an in-game bonus'. The big difference here is ANYONE can buy the vanity pets in the store, you have to be in the right place at the right time, or pay extra money for exclusive items like Grunty, Mini-Diablo, etc.
You do know that Collection box is a hands on item dont you ?
You do know that Blizzard are not starting item shop for just 2 vanity items ?
Lets see... 50 vanity pets ... 500 $ or 500 Euros. Are ppl paying that for collection boxes ? 50 collection boxes ?
This is buisness - Making these vanity pets does not cost Blizzard anything more than the Subs.
And how dare you say that everyone can get these pets ? I didn't know that everyone had a credit card. Find better argument than saying BLizzard didn't do this JUST for EXTRA profit.
Buisness is buisness - and gamers are fools....
P2P games that open item shops = fail.
I wonder if the item shop will make up for the lost subscriptions
Yep! Nasty old profit never did anyone any good... Its well that the three games you mention above are being done *only* for the sake of the Art of gaming... I'd really hate to see them tangled up in all of the slimy business aspects of the pursuit of dirty profits...<rolls eyes>...
Play these games and see. YOu do know that these games are all half prized compared to the games from the "big boys"? They are not perfect when it comes to cutschenes and graphix - but they are built on gameplay - gameplay - gameplay. Exactly the same as eraly BLizzard.
You wanna bet how many Starcraft maps will be sold extra on battlenet ? Or Diablo ?
What is now happening at BLizzard might be something that happens to all. But ppl then need to realise it. They need to realise that Blizzard IS no longer a company of gamers - doing games for gamers. And I think that its EXACTLY what many ppl are realising now.
Said well I hope people read and understand.
I read and I do not care.
Oh please..the Author of this Article can join BLizzard and Eat a dick.
Guy make some cheapshot article on the "overraction" to news. Basically insulting alot of the mmorpg members. Dont get all heated when your the only one without the sense to come in out of the rain.
I agree with the article and find that so many fans complaining are utterly hopeless.
I am not against charities getting money, but I can see how many people are pissed off about micro-transactions. Plus you know companies experiment by always adding a pinch more every time. It's hard for a company to hold back once these micro-transactions things become official.
If you really believe this, blame the F2P market. They ushered this idea of "item mall" RMT, now no one is buying anything so everyone is looking for a quick fix. Everyone run to your nearest F2P game and buy up all the items while they still last. lol
WoW isn't F2P, yet... Be glad for what you still have as it could be gone tomorrow. Vanity items are a way to stay ahead of the wolf pack, but it's not the end.
And the people incessantly bitching about this really wonder why game companies don't take them seriously. Trying to keep happy a group of individuals that froth at the mouth over some charity vanity pets...talk about a thankless, never-ending job.
While I wouldn't exactly put it like that (in public anyways), I agree in principle. The subject of this article could have been any number of MMO Publisher created atrocities. The fact that he chose this particular one is trivial.
This article is nothing more than a vehicle for Jon to crap on mmorpg.coms readership and stir the pot. While he says he's leaving his own personal opinions out of the article, it's pretty plain to see he has no room for this sight's readers voicing their opinions and fears concerning MMO's, and also proves to me that Jon himself has either never truly invested himself in an MMO (and gotten screwed over because of it) or he has an alterior motive to confronting those who stand up for their rights as consumers by calling those of us who are vocal towards these publishers 'the boy who cried wolf'.
What this article really shows, since Jon is employed by mmorpg.com, and is thereby speaking FOR mmorpg.com here, is that this site itself sides with the publishers, and not the consumers (which is obviously not a shock when you simply look at all the advertising these companies do on this site) and is opting to take a stand AGAINST the MMO playing consumer as opposed to actually trying to be a place where a consumer might come to make an informed decision about a game.
Yes, Blizzard is a business, and RMT is there to make money... and so is mmorpg.com
Terrible, terrible journalism Jon.
Much like the situation we find ourselves in, in the US these days? Frog soup coming up soon.
Quoted for truthiness - except that I in no way consider him a journalist.
While I wouldn't exactly put it like that (in public anyways), I agree in principle. The subject of this article could have been any number of MMO Publisher created atrocities. The fact that he chose this particular one is trivial.
This article is nothing more than a vehicle for Jon to crap on mmorpg.coms readership and stir the pot. While he says he's leaving his own personal opinions out of the article, it's pretty plain to see he has no room for this sight's readers voicing their opinions and fears concerning MMO's, and also proves to me that Jon himself has either never truly invested himself in an MMO (and gotten screwed over because of it) or he has an alterior motive to confronting those who stand up for their rights as consumers by calling those of us who are vocal towards these publishers 'the boy who cried wolf'.
What this article really shows, since Jon is employed by mmorpg.com, and is thereby speaking FOR mmorpg.com here, is that this site itself sides with the publishers, and not the consumers (which is obviously not a shock when you simply look at all the advertising these companies do on this site) and is opting to take a stand AGAINST the MMO playing consumer as opposed to actually trying to be a place where a consumer might come to make an informed decision about a game.
Yes, Blizzard is a business, and RMT is there to make money... and so is mmorpg.com
Terrible, terrible journalism Jon.
Wrong.
You have either a) not fully read the article or b) did not understand the article or, I feel more likely c) deliberately misrepresenting what was said.
First, I said the opposite, this IS my opinion. Hence,the column, which is an opinion piece.
Second, I never told anyone not to confront companies that are legitimately taking advantage of players by using a subscription fee as well as charging for enhancement items and other more typical item shop fare. I simply said that this isn't the time, and complaining so loudly about something that many folks seem to think is trivial will lessen the impact of expressing their opinions when a line is actually crossed in a more concrete manner. This is the actual moral of the story: The boy who cried wolf.
Of course I'm on the side of the MMORPG readers and players. I'm a player myself. The entire point of this article is to protect players and protect the integrity of player concerns by trying to help to make sure that they are listened to and not summarily ignored by companies and CEOs who can simply say: "They complained about X, so they'll complain about anything."
You may not agree with me, and my philosophy. That's your right. But to take what I said so wildly out of context and run me down personally for having a differing opinion is... Well, silly.
But, carry on. you seem to be having a good time, don't let me stop you.
Blizzard's one of the VERY FEW US based companies doing good in business at the moment. Let them continue to do so. AND THANK GOD that they're finally donating to charities. Seriously, they should sell Cow Level cows for breast cancer research and call the move 'SAVE THE UTTERS!'!!
Good on ya Blizzard.
It seems to be easier for everyone to be alarmists / cry wolf then to look at things objectively or atleast with some common sense. Its like the huge qq over the C Store for Champions. None of it affects in game activites for PVE or PVP but yet there was this huge stink by a small portion of the community some of which dont even play champions.
I could see everyone's QQ screaming insanity if say Blizz was selling Orange Level Mega Epics but they're not..its crummy little pets which they've been doing through the card game and event attendance for years.
Though I'll be honest 10 dollars for a pet is really extreme. I can see 10 dollars to donate to the charity and like 75% of that going to charity and then after the drive is over the pet being 2 - 3 dollars but 10 dollars without the charity hooked on is just extreme. Yelling wont do anything ...not buying will. Tho hopefully those objecting to the selling of pets for 10 bucks will wait until AFTER the charity event is over since its a really good cause.
Wrong.
You have either a) not fully read the article or b) did not understand the article or, I feel more likely c) deliberately misrepresenting what was said.
First, I said the opposite, this IS my opinion. Hence,the column, which is an opinion piece.
Second, I never told anyone not to confront companies that are legitimately taking advantage of players by using a subscription fee as well as charging for enhancement items and other more typical item shop fare. I simply said that this isn't the time, and complaining so loudly about something that many folks seem to think is trivial will lessen the impact of expressing their opinions when a line is actually crossed in a more concrete manner. This is the actual moral of the story: The boy who cried wolf.
Of course I'm on the side of the MMORPG readers and players. I'm a player myself. The entire point of this article is to protect players and protect the integrity of player concerns by trying to help to make sure that they are listened to and not summarily ignored by companies and CEOs who can simply say: "They complained about X, so they'll complain about anything."
You may not agree with me, and my philosophy. That's your right. But to take what I said so wildly out of context and run me down personally for having a differing opinion is... Well, silly.
But, carry on. you seem to be having a good time, don't let me stop you.
Unfortunately, the two opposing views will not agree on any common ground here. You follow the philosophy that, UNTIL other types of items are put on RMT (like gear), then there is no reason to panic. The other people follow the philosophy that looking ahead and predicting what will happen is important, because you MIGHT prevent the company fromcrossing that line in the first place.
I almost feel sympathetic to both sides, but you guys won't agree on much of anything lol.
No, you're not a gamer - you're an industry insider. You know who butters your bread, and it's not us.
This IS the time to protest this move. As loudly as possible. There IS a wolf, and it's foolish to wait for sheep to go missing to sound the alarm. Once that wolf starts feeding, he's not going away.
People protested about Game Guard in Aion - and it was de-activated for NA launch.
People protested about Champions Online's cash shop, and I am convinced that it made Cryptic very cautious about what they put in there.
You're being way dramatic. If the for cash shop did something 'wrong' then yeah. There'd be a need to protest, but all this for in game pets that no one should worry about?
Fluff items are a great way for a company to make some extra cash. If you don't wish to participate, vote with your dollars. Don't buy anything, or in your enraged case.. Play another game.
All in all Blizzard's just exploring their business opportunities in ways other companies have done. All in all, it probably won't work. Maybe it does and they become more charitable with their profits therefore bettering everyone.
Maybe even if their shop did good enough they could afford to keep subscriptions at a reasonable price despite the market killing the dollar and lowering their gains.
Stop being so dramatic people. It makes the theory that men don't act like men anymore because there's so much estrogen in our drinking water.
You are prescribing apathy Jon. Why should people wait until a company crosses the line with powerful items? Why should they wait for something to get so out of hand and not speak out against it BEFORE that happens?
You act like the appearance of a cash shop is trivial. There are more examples of this getting out of hand than you can point to where it hasn't and for you to belittle peoples fears shows a lack of understanding of the situation.
Please for one minute look past the 2 items that are being sold (the specifics of the items are irrelevant) and look at the whole picture, which I am afraid to say you are not seeing. Companies are being asked to get paid huge sums of money for NOT creating in game content. You are advocating people to pay companies to NOT make ingame objectives, achievements and rewards. Is the future of mmos a pay to not play future, because that is what you are telling people they are over reacting about.
Tell me Jon, when does it become a problem? At what exact point does a cash shop cross the line? You can't name it, because it differs for many people and that is why your "cry wolf" is rather offensive and misguided. You are displaying the same failed mentality of "it doesn't affect me so I don't care, sucks to be you", which has been a recipe for failure in a good many games already and honestly companies are counting on people like you to be the first line of defense in these situations.
The fact that you admit there is a line that can be crossed shows you understand the potential danger that the very existence of a cash shop poses to a game. The fact that you are belittling people for speaking up BEFORE there is a problem show you lack conviction. I hope to never hear you complain about the cash shop, because you are helping paving the way to that possibility with your support.
So what if Blizzard adds 'powerful' items for cash?
We as a community OPENLY accept, and have since Ultima Online, account / gold / player item selling. It's the same thing, except the legit company that owns their software can profit from it.
That makes sense. Bitching doesn't.
The pets aren't going to make your player any better or worse.. so who cares. Once they start charging for weapons or what not, then I'll chime in.
And hey.. the $5 to charities is a nice thing.. probably more then a good chunk of people bitching give in a year.
I think that people complaining about this are kinda stupid. Why would you bitch about the price of something that does nothing, and isn't needed for anything? If someone wants to pay for the thing, fine. If not... just as good. When Blizzard begins to sell things you need in that shop, THEN complain.
I saw someone say they quit playing WoW after ten years over this. I can only laugh at the concept that this one thing was enough to make them finally quit... though I have a good feeling they were just talking crap. The people who seemed filled with rage over it were also kinda funny, as online gaming in general shouldn't be that important to cause that level of rage in the first place, much less over a colorful bit of useless crap they apparently don't even plan on paying for.
What strikes me the most about this all is that it seems like people are complaining because perhaps they are the type of players who has to have every little thing and if they don't, then they can't enjoy the game... even if the things they have are totally useless for anything but showing off. It reminds me of when I used to play that game myself and would see people decked out to the gills in top of the line armor.... just standing around doing nothing while lesser players ooohed and aaahed over their leet gear. :-\
Why don't you read the thread so you understand the reasons why people are alarmed.
Considering WoW has only barely been around for 5 years as of this November, either you are lying, or the person you spoke with is lying.
Either way, your statement isn't very credible at all.
You are prescribing apathy Jon. Why should people wait until a company crosses the line with powerful items? Why should they wait for something to get so out of hand and not speak out against it BEFORE that happens?
You act like the appearance of a cash shop is trivial. There are more examples of this getting out of hand than you can point to where it hasn't and for you to belittle peoples fears shows a lack of understanding of the situation.
Please for one minute look past the 2 items that are being sold (the specifics of the items are irrelevant) and look at the whole picture, which I am afraid to say you are not seeing. Companies are being asked to get paid huge sums of money for NOT creating in game content. You are advocating people to pay companies to NOT make ingame objectives, achievements and rewards. Is the future of mmos a pay to not play future, because that is what you are telling people they are over reacting about.
Tell me Jon, when does it become a problem? At what exact point does a cash shop cross the line? You can't name it, because it differs for many people and that is why your "cry wolf" is rather offensive and misguided. You are displaying the same failed mentality of "it doesn't affect me so I don't care, sucks to be you", which has been a recipe for failure in a good many games already and honestly companies are counting on people like you to be the first line of defense in these situations.
The fact that you admit there is a line that can be crossed shows you understand the potential danger that the very existence of a cash shop poses to a game. The fact that you are belittling people for speaking up BEFORE there is a problem show you lack conviction. I hope to never hear you complain about the cash shop, because you are helping paving the way to that possibility with your support.
I'm sorry to interject into your diatribe at Jon here, but I have two pretty good questions for you, if you care to answer.
First... if you don't like the cash shop in WoW and want to voice your opinion, along with all of the others like you... why not simply ignore it? The cash shop feature is purely voluntary, is it not? No one forcing you to go into it and buy things? What happens as a result of it being in use, or of items being added to it, or of it even existing is completely irrelevant if no one uses the damn thing. Am I right in that respect?
And second. You speak of complaining of a thing *before it even happens*. Think of that phrase for a moment if you will. With that mentality, you could march into Mcdonalds right now, and yell at the manager, "How DARE you put a McNinja burger on the menu?! That's insulting to ninjas everywhere!" (Obviously an intentionally silly example). Complaining about something before it happens just because it *could* happen or to prevent it from happening isn't logical, it's drama based. Blizzard COULD announce an overall increase in their monthly charges... have you complained about that? They ARE already charging you... couldn't they get greedy and charge more? They COULD introduce a whole third side to the game... Neutrals, who fight for either side. Think how out of control THAT could get! You'd best complain now, loud and long, or it might happen at some point.
The point of complaining about something is not to prevent that thing from coming into existence. It's not a preemptive strike against all that could go wrong with the world. It IS a way to express your displeasure in something that has happened that you think is bad in some way. You point to the fact that you think the cash shop is a bad idea. Say 'I think the cash shop is a bad idea.' WoW has had certain services for sale form the start, be it moving a char to another server or race changes or gender changes... why are these... and I have to stress it once more... useless, non game effecting, buy-only-if-you-want-to items the cause for concern?
My opinion is mostly unimportant; I no longer play WoW and if I did, I would express the needed amount of self control to not buy whatever is offered to me by them. If I was asked why I didn't, I would say plainly, 'I think s cash shop in a pay to play game is silly and greedy.' then go about my business. But it's not.complaining and bitching and whining about these things is senseless as long as you, and all like you, exercise the simple right to NOT USE THE CASH SHOP.
Considering WoW has only barely been around for 5 years as of this November, either you are lying, or the person you spoke with is lying.
Either way, your statement isn't very credible at all.
First page, third post of THIS journal. You'd think since it came so soon after your first post here, you would believe me more. :P
Why don't you read the thread so you understand the reasons why people are alarmed.
Because its 53 pages long, and I think there's no reason to be alarmed? Also, I've played a lot of those cash shop based 'free' games. If blizzard was stupid enough to convert to that kind of thing, they would not only deserve all of this here, but would seriously discredit themselves in the eyes of most gamers, and put games like Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 in jeopardy of being ignored or outright boycotted for the potential to follow suit and be cash shop based. Do you think they're gonna do that?
And I'll say it again. The Cash Shop is voluntary. Since this is the case, and they have yet to go full on cash shop style game on you guys, there's no reason to get all bent out of shape. Just... don't use it. Don't use it.
...Don't use it.
I'm sorry to interject into your diatribe at Jon here, but I have two pretty good questions for you, if you care to answer.
First... if you don't like the cash shop in WoW and want to voice your opinion, along with all of the others like you... why not simply ignore it? The cash shop feature is purely voluntary, is it not? No one forcing you to go into it and buy things? What happens as a result of it being in use, or of items being added to it, or of it even existing is completely irrelevant if no one uses the damn thing. Am I right in that respect?
And second. You speak of complaining of a thing *before it even happens*. Think of that phrase for a moment if you will. With that mentality, you could march into Mcdonalds right now, and yell at the manager, "How DARE you put a McNinja burger on the menu?! That's insulting to ninjas everywhere!" (Obviously an intentionally silly example). Complaining about something before it happens just because it *could* happen or to prevent it from happening isn't logical, it's drama based. Blizzard COULD announce an overall increase in their monthly charges... have you complained about that? They ARE already charging you... couldn't they get greedy and charge more? They COULD introduce a whole third side to the game... Neutrals, who fight for either side. Think how out of control THAT could get! You'd best complain now, loud and long, or it might happen at some point.
The point of complaining about something is not to prevent that thing from coming into existence. It's not a preemptive strike against all that could go wrong with the world. It IS a way to express your displeasure in something that has happened that you think is bad in some way. You point to the fact that you think the cash shop is a bad idea. Say 'I think the cash shop is a bad idea.' WoW has had certain services for sale form the start, be it moving a char to another server or race changes or gender changes... why are these... and I have to stress it once more... useless, non game effecting, buy-only-if-you-want-to items the cause for concern?
My opinion is mostly unimportant; I no longer play WoW and if I did, I would express the needed amount of self control to not buy whatever is offered to me by them. If I was asked why I didn't, I would say plainly, 'I think s cash shop in a pay to play game is silly and greedy.' then go about my business. But it's not.complaining and bitching and whining about these things is senseless as long as you, and all like you, exercise the simple right to NOT USE THE CASH SHOP.
Very well said. Props.
Because its 53 pages long, and I think there's no reason to be alarmed? Also, I've played a lot of those cash shop based 'free' games. If blizzard was stupid enough to convert to that kind of thing, they would not only deserve all of this here, but would seriously discredit themselves in the eyes of most gamers, and put games like Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 in jeopardy of being ignored or outright boycotted for the potential to follow suit and be cash shop based. Do you think they're gonna do that?
And I'll say it again. The Cash Shop is voluntary. Since this is the case, and they have yet to go full on cash shop style game on you guys, there's no reason to get all bent out of shape. Just... don't use it. Don't use it.
...Don't use it.
Ignorance is bliss.
No, you're not a gamer - you're an industry insider. You know who butters your bread, and it's not us.
This IS the time to protest this move. As loudly as possible. There IS a wolf, and it's foolish to wait for sheep to go missing to sound the alarm. Once that wolf starts feeding, he's not going away.
People protested about Game Guard in Aion - and it was de-activated for NA launch.
People protested about Champions Online's cash shop, and I am convinced that it made Cryptic very cautious about what they put in there.
Now do some lines from William Wallace in Braveheart. xD I swear I can see you applying face paint and getting torches ready for a nighttime raid on Blizzard's main servers!
How would you be able to say that this person is not a gamer? Do you have something that allows you to watch him, and prove he's not? Some way to mark him as 'one of them' simply because he wrote an article? ...Seriously, get some help, or get off your butt and go ride a bike or something. It's not that important, nor worth getting all up in arms over. Remain civil and protest if you feel strongly yes... But the accusations are frankly kinda scary. ^^
Because its 53 pages long, and I think there's no reason to be alarmed? Also, I've played a lot of those cash shop based 'free' games. If blizzard was stupid enough to convert to that kind of thing, they would not only deserve all of this here, but would seriously discredit themselves in the eyes of most gamers, and put games like Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 in jeopardy of being ignored or outright boycotted for the potential to follow suit and be cash shop based. Do you think they're gonna do that?
And I'll say it again. The Cash Shop is voluntary. Since this is the case, and they have yet to go full on cash shop style game on you guys, there's no reason to get all bent out of shape. Just... don't use it. Don't use it.
...Don't use it.
Ignorance is bliss.
No, not really. Ingnorance is just a good opportunity for those who are watching you to stick a knife in. Sadly... I don't play WoW anymore, so I just am not quite that excited over it all. And I really can't say it enough. An atrophied limb is useless. An empty hotel soon closes. A diner that doesn't sell food is soon torn down.
Don't use the damn cash shop if you don't want it there.
one of the best articles to date, well wrote. I fully agree as long as it isn't "required" to play then item malls are all good i really can careless. But on the same note, at least with the Asian Item Mall games, you are able to gain the items in the game that are in the malls in some way. It seems the ones out of america are not like that. Which could be some reason for the animosity.
No, you're not a gamer - you're an industry insider. You know who butters your bread, and it's not us.
This IS the time to protest this move. As loudly as possible. There IS a wolf, and it's foolish to wait for sheep to go missing to sound the alarm. Once that wolf starts feeding, he's not going away.
People protested about Game Guard in Aion - and it was de-activated for NA launch.
People protested about Champions Online's cash shop, and I am convinced that it made Cryptic very cautious about what they put in there.
This is one of the most moronic things I have ever read on these forums...
OF COURSE he is a gamer. No one gets into this industry without having a genuine interest in gaming. Jon has repeatedly shown his interest in MMO gaming and the fact that he is a player himself. And as for your assertion that we do not butter his bread as you like to say, that is complete garbage. After all, who butters the bread of any member of the gaming industry if it is not, in fact, the gamers. No one in the industry would have a job if it wasn't for us...
If you have a point you feel compelled to make, don't you think it is better to engage in meaningful debate rather than make personal attacks?
My God man...
Why don't you read the thread so you understand the reasons why people are alarmed.
Oh believe me I have..."Alarmed" is WAY too pale a word for some of the reactions I've seen. Hysterical fits it much better. RMT with some gamers is much like the word nuclear is to greenies. It invokes a hysterical knee jerk reaction. Neither group seems capable of a rational/reasoned approach to those subjects. Its all doom and gloom, and the sky is falling nonsense. Can RMT be negative? Of course, in fact I've seen rather glaring examples of such excess. Look at Perfect World as an example. But what Blizzard is doing is far, FAR from that. Hysterics intone...For now... But preemptive hysterics are much like some of the preemptive attacks we've seen over the last 8 years...Little(if any) good comes from it.
I suddenly had no desire to read anything else Jon Wood writes after that article. There was something very pompous about it.
Im disgusted that Jon keeps on defending his article and keep flaming thoose of us who thinks this is a terrible move by Blizzard... When the leader of this site is telling everyone who doesnt agree with him to QQ then there is something very wrong going on here.
Its a sad day for MMOs and for mmorpg.com :(
People have no reason to bitch though. They are complaining cause they can not because blizzard did anything wrong. Its a vanity pet shop. It doesn't change the game. It doesn't affect your gameplay. Hell it doesn't even affect anyone who doesn't want to purchase them.
Such bullshit.
I can tell you have no clue what you are talking about as I do happen to work in games, and I can tell you that probably a good 1/3 of the people I interact with on a daily basis are not gamers, nor interested in games. They're in it for the money (crazy concept for some). And the ratio of gamers to non-gamers is getting smaller everyday (in my experience).
I will say, yes, it's most likely that this site was started as a fan site dedicated to games out of passion (after all, it was started before MMO's truly hit the big time). Most are. But then these sites gain traffic and credibility with a desirable demographic of consumer, marketing people take notice, deals are struck.
Yes it's true that if it wasn't for gamers, there'd be no bread to butter (good call with the font color btw), marketing dollars are a much more immediate reward. Do you truly believe that the owners of this site would rather wait for the MMO industry to grow and flourish than take a fat check up front to sell a particular product?
My God man...
People have no reason to bitch though. They are complaining cause they can not because blizzard did anything wrong. Its a vanity pet shop. It doesn't change the game. It doesn't affect your gameplay. Hell it doesn't even affect anyone who doesn't want to purchase them.
Now to take this to the next level metaphorically speaking. How about instead of protesting health care reform (for those who are against it), you just wait and see if it happens first. After all, it doesn't appear it's gonna affect you personally right? You should just hold on to your opinions until something bad really does happen
.
Extreme example perhaps (in scale), but the same principle.
It should have been the other way around. Make a donation to Make a Wish foundation and get a vantity pet in WOW.
The blogger point is totally wrong.He seems to be encouraging the disturbing trend amongst wester MMO who want to rip subscription money along with micro transactions.
Its always a disturbing trend whether its only vanity pets , or only colors to dye armor , or special house gifts.The excuse is oh its just for vanity it does not affect stat or gameplay experience
But it does MMORPG is a social networking rather than just a game.Apart from just questing and PVP peopl spend a lot of time chit chatting and socialising in the game.Here the person who has more bucks can get an edge.
Secondly ,it encourage the MMO companies .
Guild Wars has micro transcation but for its defence it doesnt have subs fee.
1) Pay for extra storage space
2) Pay for extra character slot
3) Pay for new facemodels / makeups
4) PAy for gender change
5) Pay to get all PVP skills unlocked and so one
But these are disturbing used by Many MMO who alos function via subs
Total money grubbing bullshit. You pay them 15 bucks a month already.
Now to take this to the next level metaphorically speaking. How about instead of protesting health care reform (for those who are against it), you just wait and see if it happens first. After all, it doesn't appear it's gonna affect you personally right? You should just hold on to your opinions until something bad really does happen
.
Extreme example perhaps (in scale), but the same principle.
LOL!! "Health care reform"... Have you looked at some of the Sweet Deals for various lobby groups in that? Lord only knows where those clowns think they are going to get the money to pay for that socialist nonsense. But the hysteria involved in that(all sides) is at least about something that might be important. This current issue is totally trivial.
i see no problem with this your not getting any perks or anything of that sort just a vanity pet and if u get the pandern 50% go to the make a wish foundation which is a worthy cause imo. i think this hurts no one n less they start making recpecs and so forth cost irl money i e champions online
Now to take this to the next level metaphorically speaking. How about instead of protesting health care reform (for those who are against it), you just wait and see if it happens first. After all, it doesn't appear it's gonna affect you personally right? You should just hold on to your opinions until something bad really does happen
.
Extreme example perhaps (in scale), but the same principle.
LOL!! "Health care reform"... Have you looked at some of the Sweet Deals for various lobby groups in that? Lord only knows where those clowns think they are going to get the money to pay for that socialist nonsense. But the hysteria involved in that(all sides) is at least about something that might be important. This current issue is totally trivial.
LOL!! You obviously didn't get why I brought it up!
I don't care either way about health care reform as I'm not an American. The reason I used that as an analogy is to show that it's important that people in the free world have a voice, and to criticize people for expressing concern is ludicrous (and I might ad very 'un-American' from what my understanding of what it's supposed to mean to be American). Sure, it's for a game that doesn't actually mean squat in the grand scheme of the world, but as consumer, people need to have a voice. Whether it's expressing fear of a large multinational raping gamers wallets, or some other product or service, consumers need to have the right to be vocal. It's what keeps business honest (at least outwordly) and us, ALL OF US, safe from getting ripped off at every turn.
My opinion? If Blizzard wants to sell pets that don't affect the game to people who want them, or even people who are passionate about whatever charity they attach to said pets, all the power to 'em. Unfortunately, even Jon himself acknowledges they WILL cross the line and take it to the next level, and start selling things that DO affect gameplay for all of us. Even still, I'm not bitching about that. I'm bitching about this website, which I had falsely hoped had some interest in taking the consumers perspective, telling us to be silent on the issue.
My son benefited from the Make-A-Wish foundation.. so I think this is very good. Granted he never got to go to Disneyland, but he did get a Star named after him.
I have no problem answering your questions if you still care to read them.
[1] You can't "voice" an opinion by being silent. Ignoring the cash store isn't voicing anything, it is simply turning a blind eye towards it, because game developers can only judge the value of something when players actually give feedback. There are plenty of aspects of wow that I ignore and do not partake in, because they are not gaming aspects that appeal to me. There is nothing wrong with those game aspects and I don't think blizzard views anyone "ignoring" those game features as negative feedback. Developers simply assume there is no problem if people do not express displeasure. They may or may not act on those concerns, but at least they have heard them. Sitting silent in the corner has never been an effective way to communicate an opinion.
[2] Yes your example was silly so I can't really address it, because well it doesn't make much sense. What blizzard is doing can be seen happening in other mmos right now. This isn't a case of just randomly choosing anything out of the realm of infinite possibilities to complain about. We can see evidence that this type of change has indeed lead to developers adding all manner of items from fluff to game affecting items to private rmt only content. This isn't complaining about something that is a grasp at straws or anything in the realm of extreme possibilities. This is addressing the very real trend that games are going and blizzard is now following that trend.
If anything I have said is untrue, feel free to point it out. Beyond that I can't accept "be quiet until it is to late" as a rational retort to concerns that are very much based on trends. A trend that now applies to blizzard.
As to your last line, this is a discussion forum and we are discussing an opinion piece by the site operators. Call it bitching and whining if you like, but it is my responses are valid and on topic even if you don't like my stance.
Beyond that, I know I am on the losing side of this, but that doesn't mean I can't express my views.
I have never, in my life, ever told anyone to QQ. I have said, many, many times in this thread, that this is my opinion. That's why I wrote it. You're free to disagree. That's fine. So yes, I stand behind what I wrote. I don't know why that means to you that I'm telling everyone else they can QQ.
Come on, Jon...now you're just being reasonable!
If only more people thought like this the communities would be so much better. I would guess that the overwhelming majority are the braggart type that quoted you initially, sadly.
I see nothing wrong with charging extra money for in-game bonus items. But to charge $10 per in-game pet that does nothing but follow you is freaking nuts and highly greedy!
This is a huge point, the makers of games are no longer gamers themselves, intent on making a great game, but a business that has to produce a return on investment/equity.
A company does involve business. A gaming company is merely the genre of company that Blizzard seems to be classified as because guess what their products involve. Yes, it is ran like a company because it is a company. Are you really shedding any new light into this world? If you owned the top game and its starting to peak, you would probably be maximizing profits while you can too. Has anyone seemed to be complain when the expansions were being sold for $40 a pop? Or the fact that faction switches are the same price as most normal PC expansion packs? This is just Blizzard being Blizzard, they are the top dog and they are taking advantage of it and you would be nuts if you didn't do the same as a COMPANY. They are after-all a company and there is some point in the day where they got to take care of their bottom line or if you are number 1, maximize while you can. You don't stay number 1 forever -_-
Again, if you are there with them, you would be doing the same. Do not act like if you were offered an opportunity to make extra money at your job (with minimal extra effort), that you wouldn't take it or you would be lying to yourselves. I know how easily influenced you Americans are by money and it definitely shows in this thread and responses to this article.
If only more people thought like this the communities would be so much better. I would guess that the overwhelming majority are the braggart type that quoted you initially, sadly.
You have to consider how things like this affect the developers of games and how they will makes decisions.
Instead of creating engaging ingame content with interesting rewards as has been the trend, the developer now will ask themselves, can I make more money by not putting this in game? Is that really the question we want developers driving their game designs? Who wins in that scenario?
Personally I could care less what the person next to me has, but I don't think it is a sends a good message to reward developers for not making in game content for players to enjoy. Paying to not play only helps the developers and leaves everyone who doesn't want to pay extra out in the cold. It isn't like this is some brand new breakthrough in content either, it is the same stuff that has always been free.
Who do you think developers are going to cater to? A regular subscriber or the "premium customers" who dig deep for extra bits of content?
If this wasn't a vanity pet, but rather icecrown citadel then people would be screaming bloody murder and buring down the forums. Just because this is "lesser" content doesn't make much of a difference. It is still content.
This is one of the most moronic things I have ever read on these forums...
OF COURSE he is a gamer. No one gets into this industry without having a genuine interest in gaming. Jon has repeatedly shown his interest in MMO gaming and the fact that he is a player himself. And as for your assertion that we do not butter his bread as you like to say, that is complete garbage. After all, who butters the bread of any member of the gaming industry if it is not, in fact, the gamers. No one in the industry would have a job if it wasn't for us...
...Actually, totally wrong. As another poster said, there are non-gamers in this industry from top to bottom.
I had the displeasure of dealing with one of those people a couple of years ago - absolutely no interest in games, gaming or gamers. It was 'a job'. In fact regarded games and gamers with disdain bordering on disgust.
Not that I think this describes Jon Wood - but you don't need to be a gamer to be in the games industry.
As far as MMORPG.com goes, IMHO this site and some of it's writers are drifting away from 'us' (the gamers). You can see it in the way things are written / what is written by MMORPG and the way the site is developing.
I think it's what happens when you have close association with a group (in a professional sense) for too long. As MMO_Doubter says - you become an insider.
To put it in perspective - the problem was identified in political journalists who go on pre-election tours.
These people travel on the same planes, stay in the same hotels, eat at the same restaurants and travel in the same bus convoys as the people they are supposed to be reporting on.
They become more like work colleagues and they lose the objectivity (both ways).
RMT is a hot issue for MMORP Gamers.
On this issue there are real concerns (and some with good reason) within the community.
You don't have to pay for it, I'm sure lots of people will. People paid 39.95 for the BlizzCon DirectTV stream just to get the Grunty pet.
You merely only present the argument by extrapolating what content is normally defined within the mmo industry into everything in the game. Vanity pets traditionally are not considered content. Game content traditionally defined by the industry tends to be the parts of the game that players can experience. A vanity pet is not an experience in itself, rather just a cheap trick or toy to show off to your buddies. The "wow" factor of it lasts a good 5-10 minutes per person that hasn't seen it before and thats it. It's fairly short lived.
Just because they look for other ways to monetize their game does not mean they don't have a reputation to uphold. They can't just sit there and think about their content and ask themselves, "Oh will this make money?". No, they have to ask themselves, "Will this add enough value to the game to want to draw in more people AND keep the current customers happy enough to stay?" They are primarily sub based and I'm sure it is in their best interest to remain so as long as they have the most subscribers out of any MMO.
The big question for all of the dissenters of the article is: Before the item shop, were you perfectly happy (or even playing) with the game? Can you choose to ignore it and play the game, business as usual, as if the shop doesn't exist? I think we all know the answers to these and I think many of you need to grow up, suck it up and take it like a man if you can't resist the urge to have a cute cuddle panda/lich.
Quit acting like he's supposed to be the senator of all the MMORPG gamers around the world. That's not what writers are here on the website for. The opinions they express are their owns and hey, part of their job is to stir up the community and guess what, he's doing a good job with such a trivial topic. It's hilarious that he has most of you by his fingertips and you don't even know it. If he honestly is steering away from you, the gamers (since I refuse to associate myself with people like you), then how is it you have taken the time to read his article or at the very least spent some time on his thread. Even if you refuse to read all of his articles from here on out, you're still going to refer back to the site for other MMORPG needs. And to even have some kind of understanding with MMO_Doubter, yuck, at least you don't sound like him, maybe a more coherent version of him. I guess I have to at least thank the extremists that frequent this site for providing great entertainment values and reminders of how narrow-minded and paranoid some people can be.
Stupid game companies will think the way suggested in the article and ignore the outcries based on their frequency.
Smart game companies will look at the outcry resulting from a fairly minor micotransaction issue and consider what will happen if they try to push the issue even further.
Stupid posters think that their retarded comments will actually make a difference in the gaming industry.
Smart game companies will look at the profits/popularity (if any) resulting from the micro transaction they introduced and consider what to do next.... and not take the views of a largely troll infested site, where almost all of the so called "outcries" come from people who either don't play the game or like the game company to begin with.
Just saying...
You are stil banging your head against the wall I see...take a step back and look at it for another point of view. Here is some things you can think about
Its a game.
A game made by a company that must earn money.
You can now buy "cute" little pets to yourself and your friends.
Pets that are just c o s m e t i c and will not affect the game play.
You have two choices - accept it and play the game or dont support the game by dont play this kind of games. Easy as that.
Why is it that this article made by Woods are getting more than 500 answers when other articles far more intressting are getting none! This just show that Wow is a game that is something that this community wants to talk about, or just nag about. I cant believe that Im sharing the same community with grown players with this doings....
Edit: Im now elite once again! rawr rawr
Best post in thread, bar none ^^^^^^^^^.
Thank you, whisperwynd. It's always good to hear the voice of reason occasionally ring out through the "halls" of MMORPG.com. Sadly, it's rather a rare happening.
Well, I find most of the arguements here quite funny. I guess most of you must be to young to remember the out cry about pay to play games. OMG i have to BUY the game AND pay to play?? thats such BS!!!!!! LOL
Gaming companies have been " double dipping"< for anyone not following allong, buying the game + a monthly fee= DOUBLE DIPPING> but since all the "good Games" were all pay to play, i guess it was ok to ignore that huh?
The only thing you guys are really complaining about is the parent company making farming obsolete. Instead of all the " cheaters" payin some private company, they can now pay the parent company for the same benefits, you were gonna spend the money anyway riiight?
Dont deny it, money/item/power leveling services have BOOMED over the last 10 years. Think of all the money these games have been cheated of. Sit back and look at it for what it is. They are simply claiming what is theirs by RIGHT. Every time you log into your game of choice you see a little agreement that most people just click ok and run right into the game. Everyone who has ever bought ANYTHING from one of those farming companies is in breach of contract. Half of the USA, Asia and Europe would be sitting in jail right now if it was worth their time to prosecute. So now instead of people buying stuff from a guy who says "it fell of the truck, i swear", everything will be out in the open and you wont be buying stolen goods anymore.
LOL anyone remember when cable T.V was promotted as comercial free ? Now the only channels wtihout comercials,...are the ones you have to pay even more money to get.
lol i need to type faster.
Because its 53 pages long, and I think there's no reason to be alarmed? Also, I've played a lot of those cash shop based 'free' games. If blizzard was stupid enough to convert to that kind of thing, they would not only deserve all of this here, but would seriously discredit themselves in the eyes of most gamers, and put games like Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 in jeopardy of being ignored or outright boycotted for the potential to follow suit and be cash shop based. Do you think they're gonna do that?
And I'll say it again. The Cash Shop is voluntary. Since this is the case, and they have yet to go full on cash shop style game on you guys, there's no reason to get all bent out of shape. Just... don't use it. Don't use it.
...Don't use it.
Do you not think that Starcraft will be charging ppl for extra maps? Wanna bet ? Get real - they are launching forced battlenet to all Blizzard accounts for a reason.
Starcraft and diablo 3 are already at risk. There will be quite alot of players not buying these games because its becoming very much obvious what the goal for Blizzrad is. And it has very little to do with gaming.
This is a huge point, the makers of games are no longer gamers themselves, intent on making a great game, but a business that has to produce a return on investment/equity.
A company does involve business. A gaming company is merely the genre of company that Blizzard seems to be classified as because guess what their products involve. Yes, it is ran like a company because it is a company. Are you really shedding any new light into this world? If you owned the top game and its starting to peak, you would probably be maximizing profits while you can too. Has anyone seemed to be complain when the expansions were being sold for $40 a pop? Or the fact that faction switches are the same price as most normal PC expansion packs? This is just Blizzard being Blizzard, they are the top dog and they are taking advantage of it and you would be nuts if you didn't do the same as a COMPANY. They are after-all a company and there is some point in the day where they got to take care of their bottom line or if you are number 1, maximize while you can. You don't stay number 1 forever -_-
Again, if you are there with them, you would be doing the same. Do not act like if you were offered an opportunity to make extra money at your job (with minimal extra effort), that you wouldn't take it or you would be lying to yourselves. I know how easily influenced you Americans are by money and it definitely shows in this thread and responses to this article.
BLizzard has been a company for many years creating top quality titles with the perspective of the gamer. as the biggest priority.
QUite frankly I would NOT do the same that Blizzard is doing now. As long as every employee at my company is beeing payed then I would be fine in "just" creating top quality games to deliver to gamers. Thats why BLizzard has become so big. They have always honored this principle. But now... they are creating extra funds......... not for the games ... not for the gamers..... but for the SHAREHOLDERS that have nothing to do with games.
THats the diffrence.. And no. If I had any right as a gaming company to stand by my principle of creating games for gamers instead of changing gameplay or features - JUST to make the shareholders more money and making the gamers pay more - I would not do that.
BLizzard had the right to say ...no.. this is not what we want to see in our game. They did not - and there will be alot of ppl realising that alot has changed at Blizzard since the good old days of diablo and WC1. BLizzard was still a company then - it just had other moral values. Values where gamers were MOST important. You can see that in the games. And you can also see now - with this item shop that things have changed alot.
Diablo 3 ? SC 2 ? NO thank you. My money will continue to go to companies that are creating games for gamers. Not by creedily charging extra to make the sharholders extra money at the cost of the gamers. Cause that is what BLizzard is doing now. It is just buisness.
And buisness is buisness - and gamers are fools.
I Can´t believe this, and i can´t stand you!
i played WoW since its release, i loved it, but had to stop due college. it just consumes too much of my time, i´ve played tons of other games, some good, some bad. all you do is QQ about a CASH SHOP, ITS JUST 2 PETS, 2 PETS, get OVER IT, look at yourselves! there are TONS of games with cash shops for valuable items, blizzard is selling PETS that have no influence on server economy, if they would sell gear/gold, that would influence server economy. Posts like these simply encourage me to leave MMORPG.com because nearly everyone here is just a hater of blizzard. try look at things from a neutral perspective, you are all trolls/haters if you QQ so much about PETS being sold, PETS
NON-COMBAT PETS
regards,
vlad
Stupid posters think that their retarded comments will actually make a difference in the gaming industry.
Smart game companies will look at the profits/popularity (if any) resulting from the micro transaction they introduced and consider what to do next.... and not take the views of a largely troll infested site, where almost all of the so called "outcries" come from people who either don't play the game or like the game company to begin with.
Just saying...
There you go again, using reason/rationality when an emotional response is required...
Its not so much the site, as it is many of the posters. Its pretty much the same on other sites as well. This hysteria is just another example of the sense of entitlement all too many people have managed to pick up over the years. Its rotting the core out of society at large(games are only a surface aspect).
This is a huge point, the makers of games are no longer gamers themselves, intent on making a great game, but a business that has to produce a return on investment/equity.
A company does involve business. A gaming company is merely the genre of company that Blizzard seems to be classified as because guess what their products involve. Yes, it is ran like a company because it is a company. Are you really shedding any new light into this world? If you owned the top game and its starting to peak, you would probably be maximizing profits while you can too. Has anyone seemed to be complain when the expansions were being sold for $40 a pop? Or the fact that faction switches are the same price as most normal PC expansion packs? This is just Blizzard being Blizzard, they are the top dog and they are taking advantage of it and you would be nuts if you didn't do the same as a COMPANY. They are after-all a company and there is some point in the day where they got to take care of their bottom line or if you are number 1, maximize while you can. You don't stay number 1 forever -_-
Again, if you are there with them, you would be doing the same. Do not act like if you were offered an opportunity to make extra money at your job (with minimal extra effort), that you wouldn't take it or you would be lying to yourselves. I know how easily influenced you Americans are by money and it definitely shows in this thread and responses to this article.
Your last made me chuckle(such ignorance isn't really worth a real laugh any more). If you think that Europeans or any other national group aren't just as motivated by money/power you are either ignorant/naive or you are an ideologue. Europe is much further along the socialism/entitlement curve than the US has managed to this point. The tragic aspect of it is, they have been so indoctrinated by their Ruling Class that the poor fools think of it as "civilization". Its anything but. This sense of entitlement is what we are seeing in the current hysteria over a couple of *vanity* pets. One of the reasons(among legions) that Blizzard's WoW is hated is that its so *successful*. Blizzard has demonstrated that they can make Billions from their game, and no one else has even come close to their numbers. That seriously grates on the sensibilities of the entitled class. Its not "fair", its "greedy"... On and on it goes. Bottom line, if you don't like WoW, don't play it. If you do, ignore the howlings of the entitled class, and enjoy your game while you can.
I only point out Americans because in my opinion, most of the disagree'ers sounds American to me and these are just based on my observations and beliefs. I do not like to comment about other countries that I haven't at least been to and seen so thats why I tend to leave others out. I don't discredit the fact that money makes the world go round everywhere, but I'm also convinced that this sort of thinking (self entitlement/self righteousness) might be more prominent in our country than some of the others. We are known to be arrogant as a people after all and I really don't disclude myself from that, its just annoying how everybody here merely just thinks everything revolves arounds themselves as in no one else exists in their world. Maybe its just too much customer service and a bad case of hating every other douchebag driver on the road. But again, this is me pulling from my experiences and beliefs ;)
Yeah, I definitely do agree with your post for the most part even on the ignorance part because in fact, I do not know anything about Europe hence the lack of any inclusion of them ;) And I merely think Blizzard is mostly just hated within this community and others that covers a broad spectrum of the MMORPG industry.
Socialism doesn't have classes - that's the law of the jungle culture again.
For the record (before the 'commie' slurs starts flying) - I believe in socialism for the neccesities of life, and capitalism for the luxuries.
This is a huge point, the makers of games are no longer gamers themselves, intent on making a great game, but a business that has to produce a return on investment/equity.
A company does involve business. A gaming company is merely the genre of company that Blizzard seems to be classified as because guess what their products involve. Yes, it is ran like a company because it is a company. Are you really shedding any new light into this world? If you owned the top game and its starting to peak, you would probably be maximizing profits while you can too. Has anyone seemed to be complain when the expansions were being sold for $40 a pop? Or the fact that faction switches are the same price as most normal PC expansion packs? This is just Blizzard being Blizzard, they are the top dog and they are taking advantage of it and you would be nuts if you didn't do the same as a COMPANY. They are after-all a company and there is some point in the day where they got to take care of their bottom line or if you are number 1, maximize while you can. You don't stay number 1 forever -_-
Again, if you are there with them, you would be doing the same. Do not act like if you were offered an opportunity to make extra money at your job (with minimal extra effort), that you wouldn't take it or you would be lying to yourselves. I know how easily influenced you Americans are by money and it definitely shows in this thread and responses to this article.
Jairoe, just to clarify my position, I am not knocking Blizzard at all. If you read through my posts here you will see that I don't have a problem with them making this move.
Blizzard is a business and has to be run as such.
I only point out Americans because in my opinion, most of the disagree'ers sounds American to me and these are just based on my observations and beliefs. I do not like to comment about other countries that I haven't at least been to and seen so thats why I tend to leave others out. I don't discredit the fact that money makes the world go round everywhere, but I'm also convinced that this sort of thinking (self entitlement/self righteousness) might be more prominent in our country than some of the others. We are known to be arrogant as a people after all and I really don't disclude myself from that, its just annoying how everybody here merely just thinks everything revolves arounds themselves as in no one else exists in their world. Maybe its just too much customer service and a bad case of hating every other douchebag driver on the road. But again, this is me pulling from my experiences and beliefs ;)
Yeah, I definitely do agree with your post for the most part even on the ignorance part because in fact, I do not know anything about Europe hence the lack of any inclusion of them ;) And I merely think Blizzard is mostly just hated within this community and others that covers a broad spectrum of the MMORPG industry.
I would totally disagree with Wraithone here, Europeans don't even come close to the levels of entitlement that run rampant here in North America. I am English and have lived in North America for 8 years and am still blown away by people's levels of entitlement here. I would also like to point out that calling Europeans poor fools is not a wise thing to do, and as for being indoctrinated by our ruling classes ... thats just said out of pure ignorance.
North America is more than one country. Kindly don't lump us all in together. I know the other poster did it with Europe, but two wrongs don't make a right.
Consider me misunderstood, its very hard to track what everybody has said as everybody pops in and out making different comments through out the day. I only can keep track of the ones around the time I log in and log out. I try to fill in the in-betweens but its so much reading and the post is usually "outdated" or "responded to/clarified" later on. Hey, I try my best, but its not possible to track everything and even memorize in such an active thread, which is thankfully winded down ;)
Will ignoring this make it go away? Will ignoring it guarentee that it will not get worse?
You draw some very large conclusions yourself in support of your non-argument. When you rule the industry you don't have to answer to anyone about your reputation. When other companies cannot even make a game that dents your subscriber base, you can do what you want to. If you start to make more money from selling cheap to make pets, then the value of non-rmt subscribers diminishes. Not to mention fluff items are very important to some people. Do you think everyone would be happy if blizzard said there would never be another non-cash shop pet?
I can ignore any problem, but as can be seen in just about every other game with cash shops it will get to a point that I cannot ignore it any longer. Eventually something I consider important will be held hostage for a additional fee that is dissproportionate to every non cash shop content in the industry.
I wish people could look past the 2 fluff pets for what this really represents. There is a reason companies hide these activities behind donations to charity. There is a reason why they start out small. They depend on players not taking it seriously and telling others to keep quiet. Just like Jon is doing.
If people actually looked at the overall picture and the trends in other games I don't think people would be sitting here telling others they are worrying over nothing.
EQ2: RMT dungeon, quests, game altering items
SWG: RMT has received more "player made" items than players have in four years.
CO: $12.50 for a character respec
DDO: Buy "veteran status" level 4 characters with items. (semi subscription game)
FreeRealms: cash shop sells the most powerful items in the game (semi-subscription game)
I am very certain that people who do not trust developers with a cash shop have some very solid foundations to argue against the trends of cash shops in subscription games. I see no real basis to take the advice of those who preach apathy towards the issue.
Socialism doesn't have classes - that's the law of the jungle culture again.
For the record (before the 'commie' slurs starts flying) - I believe in socialism for the neccesities of life, and capitalism for the luxuries.
NO. NO ONE is entitled to the fruits of others creativity/imagination/talent/intelligence/labor. Period. Such a mentality is NOT civilization. It is the might(of the many) makes "right". Socialism is not about "generosity". It is first and foremost about Power. The Power to *take* from the productive and *give* to the non productive. The Power to indoctrinate entire generations to believe that this is anything but theft. That IS what socialism is all about. The idea that socialism is classless is no doubt amusing to The Party... I'm still waiting for one of you to produce a non subjective definition of "greed". As I've always said, it usually breaks down to "you have more than me" or "You have more than I believe you should". Being a little bit socialist, is like being a little bit pregnant... ^^ But the key that ties this all together is the sense of entitlement. That does not happen naturally. It is fostered by a ever growing dependence on the State and its various "services". But this is rather far from the current topic. We now return you to your on going MMO emotion fest...
QFE, Well said .
Do you have any children who went to public school? Did you? Well, congrats, you're a little bit socialist.
Police? Firefighting? - socialist constructs.
Ever work a union job? Hire union workers? Guess what?
North America is more than one country. Kindly don't lump us all in together. I know the other poster did it with Europe, but two wrongs don't make a right.
I totally agree, it is two countries, very different countries. I get lazy referring to it as one country as I see Europe being continually touted as one country from US television here. I apologise, I should have said 'Canada and USA' rather than North America. FYI I live in Canada
I totally agree, it is two countries, very different countries. I get lazy referring to it as one country as I see Europe being continually touted as one country from US television here. I apologise, I should have said 'Canada and USA' rather than North America. FYI I live in Canada
Did Mexico finally secede from the continent then?
.
Do you have any children who went to public school? Did you? Well, congrats, you're a little bit socialist.
Police? Firefighting? - socialist constructs.
Ever work a union job? Hire union workers? Guess what?
Nice try, but private school for myself(my parents rightly didn't trust the public "educational" system) as well as for my children.
Police/firefighting doesn't have to be collectivist.
No union for me, I don't believe in them, nor in the class warfare meme that makes them so useful to collectvists.
But as I said, this is rather far from the topic of vanity pets in WoW. Lets move back to the usual game style mud slinging. ^^
You shouldnt misscredit the hand that has feed you. Look up the history of our lifes and you will see what the union has done for you.
And its not the subject of the thread and it shows that the community is done with the subject
The internet he's using to write up his ill-conceived post only exists because of government 'socialism', from the ground up: military funding, university funding, ARPAnet/internet funding, common carrier status, subsidizing telecommunication companies..
There's such huge cognitive dissonance with people like that they don't realize the roads they drive on exist because of evil socialism and that his parents don't bankrupt him because they get Medicare and Social Security, the education he got from kindergarten to college was all funded by the gov't.. yes, there's no way you could afford tuition if your university wasn't subsidized.
Socialism isn't 'evil' and it isn't all or nothing.
This is really a deja vu kind of experience here on MMORPG isn't it? lol
Just another milestone of gamer angst that will come and go like the rest. People will either find renewed love for the genre they've played for well more than a decade, they will move on to a different genre, OR....they will at last turn to another hobby, perhaps one that doesn't change so much with the fierce winds of technology, like....I don't know....knitting or....golf? ;)
Will ignoring this make it go away? Will ignoring it guarentee that it will not get worse?
You draw some very large conclusions yourself in support of your non-argument. When you rule the industry you don't have to answer to anyone about your reputation. When other companies cannot even make a game that dents your subscriber base, you can do what you want to. If you start to make more money from selling cheap to make pets, then the value of non-rmt subscribers diminishes. Not to mention fluff items are very important to some people. Do you think everyone would be happy if blizzard said there would never be another non-cash shop pet?
I can ignore any problem, but as can be seen in just about every other game with cash shops it will get to a point that I cannot ignore it any longer. Eventually something I consider important will be held hostage for a additional fee that is dissproportionate to every non cash shop content in the industry.
I wish people could look past the 2 fluff pets for what this really represents. There is a reason companies hide these activities behind donations to charity. There is a reason why they start out small. They depend on players not taking it seriously and telling others to keep quiet. Just like Jon is doing.
If people actually looked at the overall picture and the trends in other games I don't think people would be sitting here telling others they are worrying over nothing.
EQ2: RMT dungeon, quests, game altering items
SWG: RMT has received more "player made" items than players have in four years.
CO: $12.50 for a character respec
DDO: Buy "veteran status" level 4 characters with items. (semi subscription game)
FreeRealms: cash shop sells the most powerful items in the game (semi-subscription game)
I am very certain that people who do not trust developers with a cash shop have some very solid foundations to argue against the trends of cash shops in subscription games. I see no real basis to take the advice of those who preach apathy towards the issue.
Yes, as I've said RMT can be used VERY badly. Thats not an issue to me,as I've seen it in games(Perfect World and Free Realms come to mind as just two examples). But on the other hand, it doesn't require the type of over emo reaction we've seen in all too many posts either. I've never been an advocate of apathy(anything but as a matter of fact). But if you wear yourself out on the trivial(vanity pets) you are going to burn out long before it gets to selling T12 gear in a cash shop(if it ever does). A sense of proportion *as well* as a sense of history is of use in these matters.
I'm not going to burn out early. - I have quit Blizzard, and not just WoW.
Blizzard has the subscription base and general unilateral attitude do as it pleases despite the protests from it's more hardcore crowd. Casual players will still play even if all you guys stamp off in a fit of rage. Product of a having one game grow so large, it can choose to ignore the bugs nipping at it's neck. Having a 10 million plus player population does wonders for a company implementing changes, short of something so drastically unpopular like increase in subscription costs, it can implement cash shops at the cost of minimal sub losses. Blizzard would have to lose more than a tenth of it's population to even consider revoking the cash shop. Even then, they probably won't because 9 million is still good profits.
First off, if you are going to bash me, at least do it right and include supporting argument to the fact that my whole post was a "non argument", it just makes you look like a hypocrite when you tell somebody that they are lacking when you lack it in your statements as well.
A good company would not try to take the whole pie from WoW but focus on bits and pieces. The industry can thank WoW for bringing the people in and now its time to dissect and specialize these games into their respective niches and there's plenty of ways to break it down. As for the perceived negative impact (by you) of RMT usage by WoW, thats exactly whats going to balance them back out and the reason I been pointing out as to why people shouldn't worry. Despite how important the fluff is to the people, WoW is Blizzard's game and its their choice on what is made available to the customers and based on the reactions, they will react accordingly like any good company and they are a good company (even though I do feel WoW has been falling off on other factors, but thats another topic) to retain subscribers which is where the money is at for sub-based MMO's. Like Jon Wood has said in his follow-up blog, vote with your wallets rather than sit here and make assumptions off your magic 8-ball at home to what the future of RMT is going to lead up to. They haven't made anyone pay for content with cash or super awesome gear so why are we crying now about the 2 pets and assuming thats what they are going to lead up to. For all you know, the item shop could be entirely for donation purposes only and this would be just as likely as any of these other conspiracy theories about Blizzard and corporate greed.
In regards to mentioning of the trends with RMT in sub games, what trends have there been? Its been a couple days and people are assuming the worst on everything even though the customers are the ones that do ultimately make or break any company. Any other trends by other games are just as limited in time (way less than a year) and the vocal minority do not represent the silent majority that possibly could be satisfied with paying $10 for cool pets. By the way, all those mentioned games are currently running and Champions and FreeRealms are too new to even have a set trend. It hasn't even been over 2 months for Champions and last time I checked, FreeRealms was free -_-
Another assumption you made is the fact that people like myself are preaching apathy. What a misperception and don't fault me for being smart enough to evaluate the current situation and not base any of my complaints about a company on assumptions. If Blizzad decided to make content only accessible after I pay $5 for every new dungeon they make, I would be up in arms with the rest of the paranoids out there (since they done did it at that point and the conspiracies are no longer assumptions). Again, you are just making an ass out of you and me and if my arguments seem baseless then I don't want to know what you should consider your own. Apparently, you must think its appropriate to make assumptions and complain about "what could be" rather than "what it is".
People need to quit trying to look into the future and into the minds of the company that manages an MMO giant because it truely is pointless (and I don't need any support for that, thats common sense).
When you make assumptions (like blizzard is smart and will never do something) then you say it is common sense. When I make speculation you mock it as if I am being some conspiracy freak.
My friend, I showed you evidence of exactly what happens in games with cash shops and RMT on top of subscription fees. That is not speculation. Those are facts. It is also a fact that blizzard is following these models, because they now have a cash shop of their own. I think you will be hard pressed to find even 1 subscription game with a cash shop that doesn't go over the fluff only line.
If you wish to remain silent then feel free to, but please stop trying to make people look like they are over reacting to the FACTS of what is going on in the industry. If you want to wait to complain until after things have gotten out of hand, then that is your choice, but don't expect your voice to be heard once the damage is done and don't think you are being smart for doing so.
Everything you have said, as well as others preaching silence as a response, has already been said in those other games I mentioned. The original poster is preaching a worn out message that has already blown up in the face of many people in those other games and the same will most likely happen in wow. Sitting by idle while a cash shop is implemented opens the door to nothing but loss for players. I think everyone in this thread has acknowledged that, but they don't seem to care until it affects what they consider to much. For all the support cash shops are getting I don't see people listing huge benefits they give players.
In the end you are not getting 100% of the game for your subscription fee and people here seem to think that is something worth defending. To me it doesn't matter that it is fluff pets now, because it is a loss no matter how you look at it. If you can make a rational arguement about how all players benefit from cash shops I am all ears, but I know no one can make that defense.
Apathy is a fitting term I think, because people are displaying a lack of concern until it directly affects you. Just like it was for people in EQ2, SWG, etc.
What is humorous is how you think "if blizzard does X then I will complain" is acting any different than people in this thread who are speaking out. When it does get to that stage, there will be people who call you names and say things like "its only 1 dungeon and we still get 5 free ones".
The only thing of merit being argued here is WHEN it is to much, because almost everyone has stated there is a point where it is to much. Even though people have not stated it, we all agree cash shops are bad. We all just have different breaking points and yours is not the textbook definition of when they become bad. The very nature of cash shops is bad and all we are really debating is our level of tolerance for them. I simply don't like them, because they benefit no one but the developer.
Finally a posy that goes against my thinking without sounding like a child without his favorite toy. thank you for your excellent post Daffid011.
These people claiming they won't buy a blizzard game will secretly be buying their games anyways, just pretending to be all angry and stuff lmao.
I personally won't be touching a Blizzard product ever again, but you can just go ahead and think what you want about that.
Do you really think that you can compare something like a movie theater experience with a computer game that you sit at home and play? How absurd, these arguments are completely void. The boy who cried wolf thing makes absolutely zero sense as well. I found myself laughing through most of this article, try again.
Good for you then, stick up for your beliefs. I'll be enjoying some Startcraft 2 and Diablo 3 here pretty soon, woot.
i wonder if people are mad at Bioware for charging for Downloadable content, i mean shouldn't it have come with the game, why should we pay for it? sounds like RMT to me.
Guess people are never gonna play a Bioware game again for doing RMT with a single player game eh?
592 posts, most full of spite and self-deluded grandiose false indignation. Maybe this genre does need to die. All this what-if how-about-that when-they-do-that, over two little inconsequential pets in a virtual world. I'd love to see the meltdown that happens when some of you have your favorite TV show preempted, or when a restaurant messes up an order. Must be utter CHAOS.
Get some perspective people.
That made me chuckle. I must have seen a mmo player when I ate tonight. Alot of loud talk about a thing not being what is supposed to be. Former wow player was what struck me :)
Why not run around and riot and plant bombs in Blizzard's headquarters if they actually do offer RMT for EXP, stats, items, etc.? Things that affect gameplay? Right now people are screaming and shouting that it's coming, but it's pointless. You're taking a risk here. If you're right, you get to say, "We warned you! We told you so!" But if you're wrong, you look like a bunch of morons trying to destroy the dreaded RMT in any way, shape, or form.
Then again, this kind of drama is why I come to this site, so, on second thought, keep it up.
If it comes to things that affect game play or not, whatever, it doesn't matter at this point. In my opinion, they have already crossed the line.
Love your sig btw.
All the cries of outrage is from people who want one, but dont want to fork up the 10 bucks.
I did not expect an impartial article about this from MMO journalists, point me to the article on this site when they have ever had a go at any decision Blizzard has made?
Putting ‘boy who cried wolf’ in the title sums it up, it was never going to be a balanced article about the pros and cons.
First that ridiculous score for Aion, now this, might as well get back to the player forums where even the fanboys are less rabid in their adoration.
I have never, ever, wanted any pet that Blizzard has introduced to the game. Sorry.
Only that can be written about it is that its not revolutionary but a way to hide empty servers.
Exactly. Blizzard is already offering pets OUTSIDE of the game at a cost since ... 5 years now. Even with the introduction of the game you had pets out of the game.
For YEARS pets and non significant game vanity stuff is being offered through the Card game (buying them for ovcer 300 Euros on the ebay channels or through Blizzcon (125 Dollars).
The only thing that changed was the click button to pay: instead of an ebay button, you now click on the Blizzard button.
--- > The fact this site AGAIN decided to go with that title shows their attitude. Instead of writing about the revolutionary cross server dungeons and new LFG tools, they shit on Blizzard - like always.
----> However we had a RL meeting with our guild yesterday.
-----------
And just to inform you for all WOW haters: the new direction Blizzard is taking WITH the new game mechanics (cross servers, dual specs, very easy PUG pick ups, CHOICES in content diffculty (per boss even), is a BOOST to having fun at your level (wherever you are in the game).
And Blizzard ensures it 24/7 in groups as of patch 3.3.
An unseen achievement for a game that will celibrate its 5 th anniversary (but Blizzard constantly fine tunes the game of course).
What most of you don't understand.... BLIZZARD now shapes this industry .... and the others try to follow and fail.
The new keyword is 24/7 PVE/PVP grouped gaming fun at YOUR pace in YOUR time at YOUR level
Patch 3.3 can't come quick enough. It'll blow the "old concepts" of mmorpg's away.
And CATACLYSM will be the atomic bomb on top of these new mechanics.
Now THIS is inside news dear editors of mmorpg.com, not some vanity pet on a click button.
I pity the competition.
I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.
LOL. How about being a frustrated WOW hater these days ....:))))
read about it here:
http://www.wow.com/2009/11/07/patch-3-3-luck-of-the-draw-buffs-you-for-pugging/
The cross server dungeons (together with the dual specs) and the ALREADY clustered PVP simply allows a 24/7 GROUP play in an MMORPG on YOUR level and YOUR gear status.
BTW yesterday EU English had ... 42 servers on FULL of which 8 were locked. Try entering realms like Al Akir at prime time in EU.
.... and patch 3.3 isn't even out yet.
As always the competition struggles MILES behind. Probably being based on "concepts" than rather have GAMING elements to promote play 24/7.
Like I said : Blizzard now shapes this industry and the rest comes (far) behind in adapting its techniques.
Rabid fanboy at its finest.
The 5% buff is NOT a good thing, in my opinion. As if the dungeons weren't too easy as it is.
LOL. How about being a frustrated WOW hater these days ....:))))
Dont hat
read about it here:
http://www.wow.com/2009/11/07/patch-3-3-luck-of-the-draw-buffs-you-for-pugging/
The cross server dungeons (together with the dual specs) and the ALREADY clustered PVP simply allows a 24/7 GROUP play in an MMORPG on YOUR level and YOUR gear status.
BTW yesterday EU English had ... 42 servers on FULL of which 8 were locked. Try entering realms like Al Akir at prime time in EU.
.... and patch 3.3 isn't even out yet.
As always the competition struggles MILES behind. Probably being based on "concepts" than rather have GAMING elements to promote play 24/7.
Like I said : Blizzard now shapes this industry and the rest comes (far) behind in adapting its techniques.
Go ahead and dream on, if the servers were booming with activity that lfg tool is useless, but yet you hink its a welcome addition, makes one wonder not?
Btw stolen from GW as there you can switch to american korean chineese and european servers for 4 years already, finding groups 24/7 as you can change to servers with different timezones so nothing revolutionary about it.
Blizzard shapes nothing, they just copy paste.
Rabid fanboy at its finest.
What about arguments instead of the usual insulting stuff.
Against the options of playing 24/7 on ANY level and/or gear on your terms perhaps ? :))) Remember the cross server realms are a supplement to your realm baesed groups AND is being complemented by a guild leveling system both in PVE AND in an organised PvP competition (guild wise) on your ... realm.
Perhaps throw out some comments instead of one word insults.
Ok, well the 5% buff is going to make dungeons that are too easy even easier, hows that?
Like you do on all other mmo's besides WoW?
Ok, well the 5% buff is going to make dungeons that are too easy even easier, hows that?
Perhaps play the game and study the new mechanics instead of spitting vomage on one sentence you read....
24/7: Now WHERE are those comments that Wow is a solo game again? LOL
I don't think I need to *study up* on a 5% buff, thanks though.
Also, I guarantee you I have been playing the game a lot longer than you have.
Yet you dont mind wasting alot of time posting useless crap about them.
and lol on the copycat...
Yet you dont mind wasting alot of time posting useless crap about them.
and lol on the copycat...
Irony, lol.
can do it already for 4 years in GW its not new, but then i can play every mmo 24/7 no mmo i played closed the servers after sesame street
And so it shows you are NOT playing it now, since you don't understand what it means "no more instances can be launched at this time".
The catch is that blizzard found the new catchy word for mmorpg play and you are not following: 24/7 group play on your gaming exprience.
It is quite the opposite of old mmo designs: where the OTHERS decided you would HAVE to play.
Actually, that was one of the reasons I quit. Nice try though.
Other than that, I've always been able to find a group within about 10 minutes to run a boringly easy instance that I'm now going to have a 5% buff to everything in. No thanks, you can play your little care bear game.
WoW was only good in vanilla.
Nice, 62 pages of people that don't even play the game spouting off on things that don't even matter.
Thanks for knowing what is best for the rest of us, where would we be without you...
Yeah, obviously you don't want to play 24/7 in group or solo on YOUR choice of place and time.
Well WOW 3.3 allows it in game where 200 million dollars were invested in the last 4 years.
Tough choice indeed. :)))
To come on topic.
THE blue above is what MAKES MMO play these days, not what frustrated haters think on mmorpg.com.
I'm done with you, all your responses are completely irrelevant to what I am saying, not even worth talking.
You expected an "impartial" article when dealing with the hysterical reactions we've seen?? Come on now, from the type of reactions we've seen, one would think that they put full T12 gear and weapons up for sale, instead of a couple of useless vanity pets. No doubt, some of the hysterics will claim that such is "coming soon..."<rolls eyes>. For being ad driven(you do know that this operation costs money?...) I've found that MMORPG is a rather informative and entertaining site. You must find something of interest here, as you have more than 900 posts to their forums...
Only that can be written about it is that its not revolutionary but a way to hide empty servers.
Perhaps... Or perhaps its a good method of allowing lower levels to find groups for lower level dungeons? Given that the game is 5 years old, there aren't nearly as many in those zones as there once was. Just about everyone has multiple level 80's by this time.
But you are questioning blizzard, you can not do that.
Shut it you idiot, you bad mouth blizzard and wow every chance you get, im guessing your that idiot woddy's alt account. Its bad that they put 2 pets into the store, which you dont even need? A pet that you wont use, expcept when ur standing in a city or runn9gn around doing quests? And your worries about that? Get a bloody grip u bafoon. If you dont want a pet then dont bloody buy it, simple as that, this sint an soe shop where they have pots and what have you, where people use it to their advantage. Does this pet affect you from playing? Does this pet affect how you play the game? Ddi you even carer about 2 pets in the game, that are so inconsequentionl its untrue?. Now you didnt.
Upto? Its the same example of the absurd that I've used multiple times now...Way to keep track of the thread...
Yes, yes(rolls eyes...) I'm certain that this is just the "thin edge" of the "slippery slope" that the evil genius's at Blizzard have been plotting for years now...(cue mad laughter from Blizzards boardroom).
"Content"? Useless *vanity* pets, that do NOTHING in game?? Well, I guess if one wishes to apply such...But has it dawned on some of you that you aren't being forced to purchase those pets?
Right now its "bad"?? I suspect many of you have rather interesting(not to mention entertaining...) notions of what "bad" is. As for the worse, that remains to be seen.
CONTENT? Did you just call vanity pets CONTENT? Are you serious?
They threw in a free penguin for anyone who linked their account to Battle.net a few weeks ago. They gave everyone free content! YAY! It was like an entire patch!!!!! Almost as good as 3.3!
Wow. Perhaps you and everyone else who is, indeed, crying wolf should calm down and think about what you're talking about. Content... content has significance. Content is "stuff". Content is valuable additions to the game. Content is partly why WAR failed - it didn't have enough of it in the beginning, especially PvE. Content is not insignificant things such as vanity pets. If they added in a dungeon that you had to pay for, that's paying for content.
It used to be added for free. Hey, everyone, that means Blizzard will now charge for all vanity pets because they used to be added for free, implying that they will no longer be added... for free. You guys are right! After the pets, they'll certainly move towards EXP, buffs, armor, etc. It's the end of the friggin' world!
But you are questioning blizzard, you can not do that.
No. I do it all the time. Don't get me on the subject of the endless nerfs to the death knight class, or I'm likely to go on for pages and pages all by myself
But, that having been said, WoW is a good game(in my opinion) all the way up to level cap. Then its mainly raiding and various forms of PvP. I seriously doubt that Blizzard is plotting to open a full Asian style cash shop, and sell raid gear for real money.
Thats not really the point. Micro-transactions and monthly fees should not be in the same game. SOE started, Blizzard follows after and who knows where it will end?
Blizzard should have enough money to be able to add these pets in to all players.
The good news is that Arenanet is on the other side of the coin with no micro-transactions and no monthly fees. You still pay for the game and it's expansions but nothing else. If Blizzard plan to use micro-transactions in their next game too I don't see it compete with Guildwars 2.
But this isn't really just about Blizzard, because as we know are many companies copying them (like Blizzard started with copying SOEs EQ and now, ironicly, their micro transactions system). So chanses are that others will follow this.
To me it seems like the big companies are getting greedier, particulary SOE and Blizzard. That doesn't mean that you should quit the game you love but if no one at least protest against it, they can do whatever they like.
Exactly.
Point taken, I think there may be a bit of confusion on why there are people who feel the need to be vocal about this issue.
My concern was about the industry as a whole moving in this direction. A few vanity pets are not something I feel warrant a 500+ reply thread. However the industry moving toward nickle and dimming us for everything is.
Why shouldn't micro's co-exist with monthly fees? Outside your own preferences that is.
This is all just another version of "I pay money, so I should make the rules" type whining. You get what you pay for. If you pay for a game that has micro's built in, you paid for that. Don't like it, then don't pay for it any more.
I'm not agreeing with this article, not even in vague fuzzy terms. Until folks recognize the difference between making a profit and sheer greed we'll get stuck with this lot and as consumers we sorta have it coming. Blizzard was by no means hurting prior to the MT pet store, so at this point it's just more money on the piles of money they already make.
Why is the staff of MMORPG so pumped about anything and everything MT? The whole, "you're freaking out relax or we'll marginalize you" tactic is a bit much as well. I've noticed a lot of game sites for various types of video games (MW2, L4D2 pick a boycott) all spouting this to degrees. I say, by all means those of you who are going to, go ahead and embrace the corporate culture so we can weed out the sites that are about gamers and for gamers and the ones who are about self-service and making money. And why are you so trusting of companies and the...oh, wait, I see what you did there. Quick, add more banners.
Keep chanting; "Wave of the future. Don't overreact! Silly gamers! Silly gamers! Silly!" Yeah, you know what's best for us, my bad.
A cheap money grab , thinly veiled as "charitable". Is it good that make a wish is getting some money out of this? Absolutely! Lets not be stupid or coy though...the charity aspect WAS designed to soften the blow. Period. It was a simple tactic-"if we offer money to charity with this cash shop deal, then if people complain they seem like douches". As has been pointed out many times in this thread, blizz could have easily simply DONATED money to the charity quietly if their intentions were so pure.
And you , Mr Wood. Keep chipping away at any remaining credibility this site has. The fallen earth review fiasco. The ridiculous score you guys gave aion. LOL-ad banners OVER THE FRIKKIN TOP of articles....now lets throw in some condescending articles by the editing manager.
Quite honestly, your "article" should have been reported as a troll.
Thats not really the point. Micro-transactions and monthly fees should not be in the same game. SOE started, Blizzard follows after and who knows where it will end?
Blizzard should have enough money to be able to add these pets in to all players.
The good news is that Arenanet is on the other side of the coin with no micro-transactions and no monthly fees. You still pay for the game and it's expansions but nothing else. If Blizzard plan to use micro-transactions in their next game too I don't see it compete with Guildwars 2.
But this isn't really just about Blizzard, because as we know are many companies copying them (like Blizzard started with copying SOEs EQ and now, ironicly, their micro transactions system). So chanses are that others will follow this.
To me it seems like the big companies are getting greedier, particulary SOE and Blizzard. That doesn't mean that you should quit the game you love but if no one at least protest against it, they can do whatever they like.
Who says that monthly subs and micro transactions can't be part of the same game? Just so long as they aren't selling gear, I see no problem. No one is forcing anyone to take part. If you don't want the pets(or what ever) you need not purchase them.
I'm always amused by those who use Guild Wars as a counter example for WoW... Let alone GW2(due out next year perhaps...Or perhaps the year after, with NCsoft, one never knows). I played GW's for all of 6 months or so before I grew bored of it. I've been in WoW since late beta, and while I take vacations from time to time, I always go back.
The idea that GW2 is some how going to be a threat to WoW is too funny for words. They appeal to different gaming demographics. Not to mention that GW attracts those who either can't or will not afford a monthly subscription. You know, you must be the 7th or 8th person to use the word "greed", and I've yet to get a non subjective definition of it out of any of you. It almost always translates to something like; "You have more than me" or "You have more than I believe you should". Both appeals to emotion, rather than reason.
sign this site is getting really bad, it is really becoming filled with the dregs of the MMO society.
What he is saying is don't raise a stink over something as game breaking as "vanity pets" you could, I don't know, vote with your wallets and not buy the things, cancel your sub if you have one, and if you don't why do you freaking care?
What I can't wait for is when they announce that you can now buy teir gear for your level 80's and people on this site say "Finally Blizzard does something that makes sense."
Why don't you people just beat your heads against a wall until something useful comes out, or just do it till it looks like spaghetti in a broken bowl. Do the second one, deepen the gene pool a little.
A "stop freaking out, micro transactions are fine" article from a managing editor at a site that sells advertising space superimposed OVER THE TOP of the content at their site......
lol
***sigh***
go on little lawnmower troll, go play in traffic, you, uhhh, you just don't get it, good luck paying bills when you grow up.
says the guy who thinks he is sephiroth....
Ok, then YOU tell me(in non subjective terms) just what is this "greed"(sheer or other wise) you speak of? Simply because Blizzard has made billions on WoW, does that some how translate to them not looking for methods to make more money? At what point does a *business* have "enough" profit and then "should" lose interest in more?
As for the second, given some of the hysterical "the sky is falling" posts, its no wonder some of us have taken to teasing about this. Some of you need to check your tin foil hats for leaks, so that Blizzards orbital mind control lasers don't cause you to rush out and purchase those vanity pets...<grin>
I hate to bring this up... But one of the major motivational factors behind business in general(and games are a business) is to make a profit. I now that comes as a horrible shock to some of you, but its the ugly, unavoidable truth. Now the best businesses know that such is best done by supplying a market demand. Absent government intervention(aka the bail out for bankers, and GM etc...) any business that doesn't meet market demands eventually goes out of business. Which is as it should be.
Ok, then YOU tell me(in non subjective terms) just what is this "greed"(sheer or other wise) you speak of? Simply because Blizzard has made billions on WoW, does that some how translate to them not looking for methods to make more money? At what point does a *business* have "enough" profit and then "should" lose interest in more?
As for the second, given some of the hysterical "the sky is falling" posts, its no wonder some of us have taken to teasing about this. Some of you need to check your tin foil hats for leaks, so that Blizzards orbital mind control lasers don't cause you to rush out and purchase those vanity pets...<grin>
I hate to bring this up... But one of the major motivational factors behind business in general(and games are a business) is to make a profit. I now that comes as a horrible shock to some of you, but its the ugly, unavoidable truth. Now the best businesses know that such is best done by supplying a market demand.
Honestly, its indicitive of the entire games market. I just bought dragon age. Single player game. They released paid dlc for it the day it launched. NOw....if the dlc was ready on launch day, what good reason is there to have not just include it in the game? Several companies are purposely holding back content at release to sell to you later. Is that not greed? Is giving me 3/4 of a game and doling the rest out to me at 7.99 a pop not greedy?
I know, that is unrelated, ...or is it? At what point does protecting the companies bottom ;line cross into the realm of going too far? Imo, charging box sales, a sub fee, and mts crosses that line. They aren't "double dipping" as jon implies...most mmorpgs already double dip. Blizz is going to the next level. Triple dipping!
And when a companies does start selling gear there will be people lining up to tell you that it isn't a problem and that you don't need to buy them. See how flawed your viewpoint is. You are saying the exact same thing that Loke is saying, but your tolerance is a little deeper. Why is lokes opinion any different than yours?
I think everyone in this thread has admitted to cash shops being bad in one way or another, but we all just do not agree on the same point of when they go beyond our personal tolerance of the items being sold. To me that shows a clear majority of people do think they are bad, even if they have not crossed your personal beliefs yet.
What I do not see people in this thread saying is how cash shops are good. No one is showing how removing content from free patches and demanding payment for them in order to be accessed is good. How this is a benefit for the entier playerbase.
I just cannot understand why people are lining up to defend cash shops as trivial when almost everyone has stated they can be a huge gamebreaking problem for them. The logic is just so flawed that I cannot even begin to describe it.
This isn't a good analogy by any means, but it gets the general point across.
Lets say a friend offers to drive you to a party as the designated driver. When they pick you up, they have a 12 pack of beer for you and a 12 pack for them. Would you wait for them to drink so many that they could not possibly drive before you start to question their actions or would you ask as soon as you get into the car?
How would you feel if your other friends told you to shut up and that you were complaining about something that has not happened yet?
youre wrong. It is a very good analogy.
I don't see anyone chastising Bioware over RMT. Lets take a look at Dragon Age, i bought the CE and got some nice extra stuff, but guess what, there is more content but i have to pay for it, i don't get free access to wardens keep, i have to pay 15 more dollars for it, sounds like RMT to me. Whats some of the arguements around here? "Oh well witholding content to charge for it later is bad bad bad, its RMT blah blah blah, but here we have Bioware introducing RMT into a Single Player Game.
Not only this but they plan on adding Additional content for 2 more years, you think any of that is gonna be free? Bioware = cash shop right there. So where's the outrage? Where's the people saying they won't play a Bioware game ever again?
umm...4 posts up.
I just want to ask "Is the story in the game complete without the extra content?" and "Does the extra content just allow you to continue playing the game after the main story, or offer side quest to be done at any point?" if so it's ok. It's what some of us like to call expansions, you pay for the content cause you realize its not free for them to design it, and by buying you let the company know that you enjoyed the product and want to see more like it.
Blizzard has always had vanity pets 'for sale' with real currency. DirectTV Blizzcon stream, collector's editions and The Trading Card Game. Every one of those involved a real money transaction to get a rare or exclusive vanity pet.
Find new stuff to worry about, go make a kid and be a good parent or something.
The point is this, Blizzard knows that the path to making money in this genre is player retention, by offering RMT gear, they cut the time people play the game down severly, if you can just buy your items, then what? You obviously didn't enjoy raiding, cause you would have rather bought your gear, and everyone who PvP's will have just the same stuff, so there is no incentive to do that either. only thing to do is show it off in a city how long you think someone will pay for that?
I hear your worries, the whole slippery slope thing, but seriously, do you think after years of being on top do you think Blizzard is going to make a move that only the bottom games imploy?
Quit spending so much time doubting and try to grow a brain everytime you post its always about an issue not too far from your nose, when if you would uncross your eyes and look down the road aways, you could actually see potholes before you fall into them.
Your ranting is completely illogical.....no part of a game is required? Then what would you be playing? The game wouldnt exsist in the first place if not one part of it was required.
Find new stuff to worry about, go make a kid and be a good parent or something.
The point is this, Blizzard knows that the path to making money in this genre is player retention, by offering RMT gear, they cut the time people play the game down severly, if you can just buy your items, then what? You obviously didn't enjoy raiding, cause you would have rather bought your gear, and everyone who PvP's will have just the same stuff, so there is no incentive to do that either. only thing to do is show it off in a city how long you think someone will pay for that?
I hear your worries, the whole slippery slope thing, but seriously, do you think after years of being on top do you think Blizzard is going to make a move that only the bottom games imploy?
Quit spending so much time doubting and try to grow a brain everytime you post its always about an issue not too far from your nose, when if you would uncross your eyes and look down the road aways, you could actually see potholes before you fall into them.
thats at least 3 posts in this thread where you are name calling ,ranting, and/or flaming. Yet you seem to have no issue telling others what/how they should post. Odd.
I am surprised by the news to say the least.
However I do understand and agree with many points the OP has made.
I think the problem with the reaction is multi-fold here.
Most mmorpg fans, do not like microtransactions. Some because they are not used to them and some others simply opposing them out of principle.
The truth is that no matter how it is done, fundamentally, in my view as well, microstransactions are a form of RMT, a milder form of RMT perpetrated by the Game's Developer themselves.
So it feels, hypocritical, when Blizzard does not condone RMT from third parties, then turn around and does it themselves.
It would be like a Churche preached not to give donations to different denomination Churches, but then every sunday goes around with the basket asking for donations themselves. It is Hypocritical and obvious.
Now if you say, that "this is a business", and like any other, its goal is to make more money independently of it being Hypocritical, and actually this is what the OP is saying, then one may just accept this, but loyal fans would not easily accept it, because, in reality everyone knows that this is a business, yet no everyone wants to be associated with a bad behavior such as Hypocrisy.
On the other hand it could be argued, why would a successful enterprise such as Blizzard, which makes roughly 164 Millions of Dollar per month, in gross income, (that is more than a Billion per year), would need to make something like this?
The answer is not Bill and expenses, these are payed in this case long before a year ends. The answer is simply that Blizzard is an Enterprise in a Capitalist system and it has to be more profitable every year compared to the previous one, in order to fulfill its mandate towards its shareholders.
It is as simple as that really. As in reality it does not "need" to make more profit when it already makes much profit, but it needs as a company to be able to show growth...even if it made a good number of hundreds of millions of profit every year, if that profit was the same every year, it would not be good as the company would show no growth. That is how many western economies work, it is all a matter of perceived value, blame it on the system if you must, yet that would be a discussion in and of itself.
That being said some of you may ask, but why did they have to go with microtransactions? The answer is, because they can;t any longer show growth with new subscriptions, truth is WoW is a "old" game now, it is nothing new and it does not attract that many new players which could have an impact on its growth numbers, because there is other games out there too, and the influx of players (if any) is balanced by those that quit WoW for another game.
My only concern is that eventually, this store may have other items in it, that are not just cosmetic, unless Blizzard comes up with yet another way to raise its profitability numbers.
All in all, this is but an indication that WoW had run its course. Business aside, I am really interested to see how many people playing WoW are actually driven by Vanity...I think the results may surprise some.
thats at least 3 posts in this thread where you are name calling ,ranting, and/or flaming. Yet you seem to have no issue telling others what/how they should post. Odd.
well you only have what five post on the site, if you go and look back, most of my post are rather well thought out, I try to be inoffensive, ect.
BUT
I'm really getting tired of the community on this site, its all a bunch of WoW haters, EVE elitist, normal Trolls, and otherwise people who have the inability to talk on a rational level. Firstly I figured I'd try just blowing off some steam, and try talking at the same level as most of the people on this site.
Did you even read the article, especially the part about the boy who cried wolf?
If they do ever realease game breaking items in the RMT, you community will have no voice cause of the monkey poo throwing sh!t fit that people have when ever anything like this is done, ala, 600 some odd post over it here.
I hope your jsut new to the site, and not some troll who made a new account cause your old name is associated with troll, cause if your new, one day...you'll get what I'm talking about.
I just want to ask "Is the story in the game complete without the extra content?" and "Does the extra content just allow you to continue playing the game after the main story, or offer side quest to be done at any point?" if so it's ok. It's what some of us like to call expansions, you pay for the content cause you realize its not free for them to design it, and by buying you let the company know that you enjoyed the product and want to see more like it.
Hey i don't have an issue with companies doing this, this is more of a callout to those that think this is the end of the world, i'm just trying to gauge there reaction on Bioware doing this RMT besides blizzard, and on a single player game of all things.
I'm sure they won't say a word though or they will make excuses for Bioware, i already know the Hypocrisy from these people, they just want to trash Blizzard but its okay if Bioware does it.
you wont see these same people denouncing Bioware or saying they will never play a Bioware game again. You won't hear them say Bioware is greedy or anything bad at all.
Like this, stuff like this gets lost in the 60 pages of, WoW sucks, Vanity pets are game breaking, slippery slope, ect.
I do not agree with everything this poster said, but I'm sure he understands which parts of his post are more opinion than fact, and knows what parts people can disagree with, and what parts are just how it is, and if you don't understand, you don't need to be talking economics.
Ok, then YOU tell me(in non subjective terms) just what is this "greed"(sheer or other wise) you speak of? Simply because Blizzard has made billions on WoW, does that some how translate to them not looking for methods to make more money? At what point does a *business* have "enough" profit and then "should" lose interest in more?
As for the second, given some of the hysterical "the sky is falling" posts, its no wonder some of us have taken to teasing about this. Some of you need to check your tin foil hats for leaks, so that Blizzards orbital mind control lasers don't cause you to rush out and purchase those vanity pets...<grin>
I hate to bring this up... But one of the major motivational factors behind business in general(and games are a business) is to make a profit. I now that comes as a horrible shock to some of you, but its the ugly, unavoidable truth. Now the best businesses know that such is best done by supplying a market demand. Absent government intervention(aka the bail out for bankers, and GM etc...) any business that doesn't meet market demands eventually goes out of business. Which is as it should be.
You honestly believe it's just about two pets? Blizzard has given us a shit load of pets in the past, why are they worth ten bucks now? It's a testbed. Willful ignorance on anyone's part is their failing not my flaw.
We've had this conversation in another thread before. All profit is not greed, stop acting like I denounce a penny's worth of profit as another example of the man keeping me down. To be completely honest I'm only shocked you wish to parse English, if you wish to ignore my point so as to allow you a platform for a pro-corporate rant, fine. Just don't pretend I'm a wide-eyed child confused at the goings on of you gosh darn grown ups.
And to answer your demi-question, certain facts make me believe there is no free market to speak off, it's highly controlled (you cited references already), and greed is not good for us as a whole or even for a single individual/entity in the long run. I have nothing against profits, but greed for the sake of greed repels me. You can not say one single thing that will change my mind on that subject. Carry on with the attempt at marginalizing and chalk this one up as a "WINAR" or whatever it is you're looking for.
Hey i don't have an issue with companies doing this, this is more of a callout to those that think this is the end of the world, i'm just trying to gauge there reaction on Bioware doing this RMT besides blizzard, and on a single player game of all things.
I'm sure they won't say a word though or they will make excuses for Bioware, i already know the Hypocrisy from these people, they just want to trash Blizzard but its okay if Bioware does it.
you wont see these same people denouncing Bioware or saying they will never play a Bioware game again. You won't here them say Bioware is greedy or anything bad at all.
That I can agree with, although I must say that if I get at least a couple days enjoyment out of the new content, I don't mind paying for it, cause after all, it is still cheap entertainment. buy the game get 80 hours of ebtertainment, pay another 15 bucks, get another 10 hours, I'm cool with that.
I'm not one to be disillusioned into believing that there is just one ticket price for evolving entertainment.
thats at least 3 posts in this thread where you are name calling ,ranting, and/or flaming. Yet you seem to have no issue telling others what/how they should post. Odd.
well you only have what five post on the site, if you go and look back, most of my post are rather well thought out, I try to be inoffensive, ect.
BUT
I'm really getting tired of the community on this site, its all a bunch of WoW haters, EVE elitist, normal Trolls, and otherwise people who have the inability to talk on a rational level. Firstly I figured I'd try just blowing off some steam, and try talking at the same level as most of the people on this site.
Did you even read the article, especially the part about the boy who cried wolf?
If they do ever realease game breaking items in the RMT, you community will have no voice cause of the monkey poo throwing sh!t fit that people have when ever anything like this is done, ala, 600 some odd post over it here.
I hope your jsut new to the site, and not some troll who made a new account cause your old name is associated with troll, cause if your new, one day...you'll get what I'm talking about.
First, yes I am new. New to posting here at least. This "column" was the first one that pissed me off enough to feel i needed to respond. Generally i just pop in read the news, check the darkfall forums to see what nonsense is happening over there and leave.
See, the issue with this article (this is my opinion)...is that the boy who cried wolf analogy doesn't fit because, there IS A WOLF. Adding a cash shop to a game that already has a sub fee IS the negative thing we are worried about. It isn't nothing as the "columnist" would have us believe. This IS THE THING we are worried about happening right now. Granted, it is a first step so less severe than it will be in the future (and it will) but it IS happening.
Don't tell me not to cry wolf when the goddamn wolf is right effing there!
Well I personnally think that your fears are because you've seen what this has done to other games, so you have a warranted fear, I'll give you that.
But I think that everyone should acknowledge that what is on the table right now, two vanity pets, is not game breaking.
I agree that this IS testing the water, but not for future game breaking features, if that were the case they would have just come out and started selling low level armor to "help leveling" or xp potions, or free profession manuels that teach you how to be at 300 with a prfression.
Selling vanity pets isn't going to give them an accurate measure as to how people will resond to things that directly effect game mechanics and the economy. Now if they sell good you can expect to see more pets, maybe more options for the barber chair, or tabards, (which really wouldn't garner anything, who is gonna respect the person with the "RMT tabard" versus the one for Killing Illidan)
IF I was still playing, I would ridicule anyone using those two cash pets, and look for a guild which outlawed them.
I wonder when they will start selling things that are currently high level boss drops.
As I said before - profit is their goal. If their net profit is higher selling game-changing items to a smaller gaming community, then that is what they will do.
IF I was still playing, I would ridicule anyone using those two cash pets, and look for a guild which outlawed them.
I wonder when they will start selling things that are currently high level boss drops.
As I said before - profit is their goal. If their net profit is higher selling game-changing items to a smaller gaming community, then that is what they will do.
It is more complex than that, if you want to get technical, you have to go over tons of data, and see how long it takes most people to get "geared" for the casual gamers they are appealing to today who knows, for giggles lets say an average of 6 months, or $90 in sub money, then you have to add that into factoring, how long it takes to make the content that gives out the next set of gear, is that enough time to allow people to be geared and then enjoy it for a while?, then how many people will leave the game if we introduce buyable gear? (There would be alot) and is this amount of people lost going to be returnable in new customers that like this new set up? probably not seeing as how WoW is a pop culture phenomenon, and an MMO fluke, and this would be a major change in how the game is played. plus how many new players won't level cause the challenge they all heard about is essentially destroyed. How will this new feature effect our reputaion, and effect sales on out future products?You can go on and on with how they would go about determining if its profitable.
Lets stop making the mistake that criminals make with the police, you know, that they are incompetent. This company is making billions on this game, are they really going to rock the boa that hard? Do you really think the creators of the most successful MMO in history don't know how people feel about game breaking RMT? I mean its not like they researched any of this stuff as in depth as we mighty forum users have.
Well, I'll say this and let it go. I unsubbed from WoW a while back with every intention of going back when cataclysm released. I will not be going back. I won't buy cataclysm, I won't buy whatever blizz's next mmo is, I won't buy starcraft 2. diablo 3 , or whatever other games they offer.
It's a principle thing. Cash shop + sub fee= bad. That opinion is shared by many of us. And a managing editor on this sight who is so condescending as to tell those of that feel this way that "we are wrong" is laughable.
Thank you Mr. Wood, but I don't need you to tell me when I should worry. Seriously, coming from a site who willingly plasters ads across the top of their content...do you really believe you are a good authority on when we should worry about companies going too far to protect the bottom line? Do you not see the irony there jonny?
The 2 pets aren't gamebreaking. No I don't need to buy them. However, Blizz traded the "potential" that I would buy a 10 dollar pet for the almost certainty that I would have spent hundreds on their games in the future.
I have voted with my wallet. Another grand concept that mr wood , along with al gore , invented.
So your not gonna buy any Bioware games either right?
CONTENT? Did you just call vanity pets CONTENT? Are you serious?
They threw in a free penguin for anyone who linked their account to Battle.net a few weeks ago. They gave everyone free content! YAY! It was like an entire patch!!!!! Almost as good as 3.3!
Wow. Perhaps you and everyone else who is, indeed, crying wolf should calm down and think about what you're talking about. Content... content has significance. Content is "stuff". Content is valuable additions to the game. Content is partly why WAR failed - it didn't have enough of it in the beginning, especially PvE. Content is not insignificant things such as vanity pets. If they added in a dungeon that you had to pay for, that's paying for content.
It used to be added for free. Hey, everyone, that means Blizzard will now charge for all vanity pets because they used to be added for free, implying that they will no longer be added... for free. You guys are right! After the pets, they'll certainly move towards EXP, buffs, armor, etc. It's the end of the friggin' world!
Pet's are content, regardless of how small it may be, it is still content. Anything in the game, is freaking content, are you stupid? Not to insult you, just asking =P
So your not gonna buy any Bioware games either right?
You can keep bringing this argument up as much as you like. However, the fact of the matter is that Dragon Age: Origins doesn't have a monthly fee.
So yes, to answer your question, I will continue to buy Bioware games, as well as Dragon Age: Origins.
You can keep bringing this argument up as much as you like. However, the fact of the matter is that Dragon Age: Origins doesn't have a monthly fee.
So yes, to answer your question, I will continue to buy Bioware games, as well as Dragon Age: Origins.
Monthly fee doesn't matter as far as i'm concerned, having to pay for extra content when it should be included is the argument i see from most, then again i'm used to the Hypocrites around here.
Personally i'll buy Bioware games and Blizzard games, RMT is RMT no matter what excuses people try to make for Bioware, but i'll be watching to see how people react when Bioware's mmo has RMT, we'll see some real Hypocrites then.
You can keep bringing this argument up as much as you like. However, the fact of the matter is that Dragon Age: Origins doesn't have a monthly fee.
So yes, to answer your question, I will continue to buy Bioware games, as well as Dragon Age: Origins.
Monthly fee doesn't matter as far as i'm concerned, having to pay for extra content when it should be included is the argument i see from most, then again i'm used to the Hypocrites around here.
Personally i'll buy Bioware games and Blizzard games, RMT is RMT no matter what excuses people try to make for Bioware, but i'll be watching to see how people react when Bioware's mmo has RMT, we'll see some real Hypocrites then.
Everybody's beef, as far as I can see, is RMT on top of a subscription fee. That's my beef anyway.
My concern is with games in general offering the best loot for sale. Optional content packs I see nothing wrong with, just as vanity pets really do not concern me. However when they take the game out of the game there's a problem.
As I have stated numerous times in this thread, I personally have nothing against what WOW is doing right now. I don't think I have said anything about RMT being a deal breaker for me unless it offers what I stated above.
Why does it concern you that some people are against RMT though?
My concern is with games in general offering the best loot for sale. Optional content packs I see nothing wrong with, just as vanity pets really do not concern me. However when they take the game out of the game there's a problem.
As I have stated numerous times in this thread, I personally have nothing against what WOW is doing right now. I don't think I have said anything about RMT being a deal breaker for me unless it offers what I stated above.
Why does it concern you that some people are against RMT though?
Why should those against RMT have the only voice? do those of us who think RMT isn't bad keep quiet? i would think all sides should be shown not just one side.
Then again some around here are going so overboard on the doom and gloom i think a little perspective is order.
I can personally see both sides, but the fact is blizzard so far is just selling fluff, should we freak out over "what if's?" i don't think so, its kinda like worrying about when the world is gonna end. Just because other mmo's have sold worse in their stores doesn't mean Blizzard will, and if they do hey, go play something else, the world won't end, really it won't.
Why should those against RMT have the only voice? do those of us who think RMT isn't bad keep quiet? i would think all sides should be shown not just one side.
Then again some around here are going so overboard on the doom and gloom i think a little perspective is order.
I can personally see both sides, but the fact is blizzard so far is just selling fluff, should we freak out over "what if's?" i don't think so, its kinda like worrying about when the world is gonna end. Just because other mmo's have sold worse in their stores doesn't mean Blizzard will, and if they do hey, go play something else, the world won't end, really it won't.
I asked that because your replies are very condescending toward others with a different opinion,especially on when to speak up. Which is what is so surprising about this write up. It is as if people are being told to shut it, which is what I do not get. Of course people will do what they want in the end, play or not. However maybe they actually like the game they are currently playing. Which makes sense to speak up before that game turns into something they would not be willing to pay for.
No one is saying to not speak up if you disagree with them, so why tell others to can it or mock their opinion?
The bottom line is, you take your money else where when your stance has been ignored. You would (seemingly) rather people admit defeat before they even fight, which is what the OP seemed to be calling for as well, here and in his second write up (blog) about it.
so whats the difference between buying a pet or paying for a server transfer? You're spending money thats outside the monthly sub, thats a RMT. Same for all the other services you can pay for, hell even expansions could be listed as RMT. Game companies are perfectly able to release expansions without charging for them, yet i dont see any threads with 600+ replies crying about those. Save your complaining for something worth it, dont worry the sky isnt falling. Remember its just a game and pixels.
Umm sorry young gamer,they follow SOE's move like sheep,why do you think we pay subscription fees?What do you think Blizzard has been doing with WOW all these years?they have been copying/following EQ.WOW would have 100% been a F2P game if not for them seeing how SOE pulled it off with EQ.
Blizzard is afraid of their own shadow,that is why they put Starcraft on/off so many times,i guess it took multi billions before they got brave enough to follow through,even still it is just a spin off of SC1,no creativity.The only following that is done is gamers following the crowd to play WOW.
When i see Blizzard make a move that shows they have some balls of their own,i will be the first to let you know.It would not surprise me one bit after the success of Free Realms ,Blizzard tries to copy it and bring out their own childrens mmo game.
Blizzard is maybe the ONLY large money making developer without a decent game engine?Epic games has 75 employees and has arguably the best game engine today.Square Enix just made their new game engine,heck even SOE updated Everquest 2.I believe it was Runescape that did the graphic over haul??Geesh even that real life themed game did a brilliant engine over haul,somebody posted it in these forums about 3 weeks ago.Geesh almost every single F2P game has a better engine than Warcrafts.Your results are limited by the game engine and the results truly show.
Trust me ,Blizzard does VERY little LEADING in the game industry,they are still a small follower with a lot of money.Heck there has shown to be more aggressive developers that have left Blizzard than what Blizzard is pulling off.
There is no WOW to copy/follow,WOW is EQ1.5,they are all following SOE's leads.Remember all that SOE hate/bashing over RMT??/lmao was there ANY doubt Blizzard was following ??I think it is about time Blizzard quit hiding behind SOE and take some steps of their own,i mean they have the money,they are grown men..i think.
OK no proves, just "trust me". All you are dishing out are smokes and personal views, arrogantly placed and totally fubar, and try to push them to me "a young gamer" you think. WoW is EQ1.5 b/c you said so. Everybody follow SoE b/c you said so. Fact is, I do not see you as a member of any boards among the major game companies and you are offering me sweeping statements like every company follows SoE.
I will be a fool, if I even listen to your nonsense. Proof or everything you said are personal speculation.
Umm sorry young gamer,they follow SOE's move like sheep,why do you think we pay subscription fees?What do you think Blizzard has been doing with WOW all these years?they have been copying/following EQ.WOW would have 100% been a F2P game if not for them seeing how SOE pulled it off with EQ.
Blizzard is afraid of their own shadow,that is why they put Starcraft on/off so many times,i guess it took multi billions before they got brave enough to follow through,even still it is just a spin off of SC1,no creativity.The only following that is done is gamers following the crowd to play WOW.
When i see Blizzard make a move that shows they have some balls of their own,i will be the first to let you know.It would not surprise me one bit after the success of Free Realms ,Blizzard tries to copy it and bring out their own childrens mmo game.
Blizzard is maybe the ONLY large money making developer without a decent game engine?Epic games has 75 employees and has arguably the best game engine today.Square Enix just made their new game engine,heck even SOE updated Everquest 2.I believe it was Runescape that did the graphic over haul??Geesh even that real life themed game did a brilliant engine over haul,somebody posted it in these forums about 3 weeks ago.Geesh almost every single F2P game has a better engine than Warcrafts.Your results are limited by the game engine and the results truly show.
Trust me ,Blizzard does VERY little LEADING in the game industry,they are still a small follower with a lot of money.Heck there has shown to be more aggressive developers that have left Blizzard than what Blizzard is pulling off.
There is no WOW to copy/follow,WOW is EQ1.5,they are all following SOE's leads.Remember all that SOE hate/bashing over RMT??/lmao was there ANY doubt Blizzard was following ??I think it is about time Blizzard quit hiding behind SOE and take some steps of their own,i mean they have the money,they are grown men..i think.
OK no proves, just "trust me". All you are dishing out are smokes and personal views, arrogantly placed and totally fubar, and try to push them to me "a young gamer" you think. WoW is EQ1.5 b/c you said so. Everybody follow SoE b/c you said so. Fact is, I do not see you as a member of any boards among the major game companies and you are offering me sweeping statements like every company follows SoE.
I will be a fool, if I even listen to your nonsense. Proof or everything you said are personal speculation.
Exactly. Blizzard doesn't have to take risks. In fact they would be fools to take risks with their cash cow(WoW). Its already made them billions of dollars over the last five years. Let others "lead" the industry and pay the harsh penalty for failure. Blizzard is just where they want to be at this point. It will be interesting to see if they can duplicate WoW's success with their next MMO. Given that they can fund it entirely in house, they will thus completely side step many of the problems other current MMO's have faced.
OK no proves, just "trust me". All you are dishing out are smokes and personal views, arrogantly placed and totally fubar, and try to push them to me "a young gamer" you think. WoW is EQ1.5 b/c you said so. Everybody follow SoE b/c you said so. Fact is, I do not see you as a member of any boards among the major game companies and you are offering me sweeping statements like every company follows SoE.
I will be a fool, if I even listen to your nonsense. Proof or everything you said are personal speculation.
Exactly. Blizzard doesn't have to take risks. In fact they would be fools to take risks with their cash cow(WoW). Its already made them billions of dollars over the last five years. Let others "lead" the industry and pay the harsh penalty for failure. Blizzard is just where they want to be at this point. It will be interesting to see if they can duplicate WoW's success with their next MMO. Given that they can fund it entirely in house, they will thus completely side step many of the problems other current MMO's have faced.
Blaming SOE for Blizzard adding two non game changing pets via a cash store...
Did you forget about Ultima Online? I seem to remember having to pay for that game well before paying for EQ.
And all these posts from people that "don't play WoW".
Exactly. Blizzard doesn't have to take risks. In fact they would be fools to take risks with their cash cow(WoW). Its already made them billions of dollars over the last five years. Let others "lead" the industry and pay the harsh penalty for failure. Blizzard is just where they want to be at this point. It will be interesting to see if they can duplicate WoW's success with their next MMO. Given that they can fund it entirely in house, they will thus completely side step many of the problems other current MMO's have faced.
Now that is another interesting point raised.
If and when Blizz brings up another MMO, does it need to be a WoW killer. Why does Blizz need to kill its own cash cow?
When you have cornered a portion of the market, you want another product for the sake of diversification, to open up new portions of the market you have not secured, to tap into someone else's source of income and grab a chunk, using your well know brandname. When Coke dabs into distilled water business, they do not make a coke tasting water.
Blizz might come up with a totally new MMO, avoiding direct competition with WoW. So long as Blizz brings its own standard of completeness, polishness and game content to the table, another MMO would not be a bad idea. After all, when I am bored with WoW, I have one more game to choose for my concurrent subs.
Exactly. Blizzard doesn't have to take risks. In fact they would be fools to take risks with their cash cow(WoW). Its already made them billions of dollars over the last five years. Let others "lead" the industry and pay the harsh penalty for failure. Blizzard is just where they want to be at this point. It will be interesting to see if they can duplicate WoW's success with their next MMO. Given that they can fund it entirely in house, they will thus completely side step many of the problems other current MMO's have faced.
Now that is another interesting point raised.
If and when Blizz brings up another MMO, does it need to be a WoW killer. Why does Blizz need to kill its own cash cow?
When you have cornered a portion of the market, you want another product for the sake of diversification, to open up new portions of the market you have not secured, to tap into someone else's source of income and grab a chunk, using your well know brandname. When Coke dabs into distilled water business, they do not make a coke tasting water.
Blizz might come up with a totally new MMO, avoiding direct competition with WoW. So long as Blizz brings its own standard of completeness, polishness and game content to the table, another MMO would not be a bad idea. After all, when I am bored with WoW, I have one more game to choose for my concurrent subs.
Quite so. Which is why I some what suspected something like World of Starcraft... But Blizzard claims that the new one will be a totally new IP. Lord only knows what it will be, but I strongly suspect it will not compete with WoW.
I know people who paid for the LIVE streaming of BlizzCon just to get the novelty pet, but not even watch the event. I know people who pay hundreds on eBay just because they are collectors in WoW. It really is no different for them to be adding a "cash shop". Personally (IMO), if anything, the existing cash shop of WoW was the TCG.
It is just a novelty pet, it is nothing game changing or impacting, it's for collectors . . .
Why should those against RMT have the only voice? do those of us who think RMT isn't bad keep quiet? i would think all sides should be shown not just one side.
Then again some around here are going so overboard on the doom and gloom i think a little perspective is order.
I can personally see both sides, but the fact is blizzard so far is just selling fluff, should we freak out over "what if's?" i don't think so, its kinda like worrying about when the world is gonna end. Just because other mmo's have sold worse in their stores doesn't mean Blizzard will, and if they do hey, go play something else, the world won't end, really it won't.
Because the gamer's of WoW use to get the fluff included with their sub and box purchases maybe? You may be okay with buying a burger for years from a restaurant and then suddenly the burger joint deciding that ketchup for the burger will now not come with burgers any longer, you buy it seperately.
Some people like I decide that I don't want this companies products any longer and start shopping for burgers at other places they will include everything with my burger for one price. If enough people decide the same that they prefer not to be nickle and dimed then the other burger joint will realize they went over their limit with how much they can get away with and still keep customers. Businesses are always testing how far they can milk their customers without them leaving.
You and the OP both admit you believe this is all for the money but you overlook one big factor by saying this new feature is "harmless". Blizz's marketting team will be evaluating how many players actually buy the pets and if a large portion do, then it will be clearing the path for other rmt features in the future. As the saying goes, "Absolute power corrupts absolutely", if they are given an inch, they will take the whole mile on future content in other words.
I remember paying for a large number of D&D modules, figures, campaigns, etc. before there ever was an option to play electronically. This industry has always been based on microtransactions. Buying an expansion is nothing but a microtransaction, for you purists out there. You pay for more content, and they deliver. As far as I know, you can still play WoW without BC or LK, but your experience won't be as full, long, or enjoyable.
Oh and btw, before anybody says I'm defending our version of Big Blue....I haven't played since the coliseum made all my hard ground ulduar gear obsolete. So many players and a weak engine = playtime for casuals, but us real gamers have to go somewhere where there's more to an encounter than timing cooldowns and moving to a specific place at a specific time.
You and the OP both admit you believe this is all for the money but you overlook one big factor by saying this new feature is "harmless". Blizz's marketting team will be evaluating how many players actually buy the pets and if a large portion do, then it will be clearing the path for other rmt features in the future. As the saying goes, "Absolute power corrupts absolutely", if they are given an inch, they will take the whole mile on future content in other words.
Of course its all for the money. That is one of the major motivations for business(and games are business) after all. I gauge this all by if I'm enjoying myself. If I am, I'll not begrudge the Dev's making money from their hard/smart work. I do that in free games with cash shops(if I enjoy the game I always try to spend $40-50 a month) just so the Dev's make a profit. An old English expression comes to mind... "Penny wise, and pound foolish". In the grand scheme of things, this is all trivial. Not to mention that those who go on(and on and on...) about something trivial like this, are not likely to buy expansions or other such either.
As for power corrupts, I quite agree. One need look no further than government(in its various versions) to see the reality of that statement. But unlike government, no one is forcing you to purchase a game companies products.
.
Wait and see if that iceberg is going to tear open the hull. THEN we can count the life boats.
It's wiser to steer away from the iceberg to begin with.
I hereby reserve the right to claim "I told you so" when things do go south Jon.
Me too. :) lol...
I never said things wouldn't ever go south. I just said that what happened yesterday isn't actually proof of anything and that if people keep losing their minds over things that prove nothing, when real proof emerges, and someone cries foul over it, no one will listen.
Hey Jon. May i ask you a question? Yes? Ok... Can you please name me one title that has adopted this RMT item mall style of play and has reverted back to its normal self before RMT due to the outcry of people? Can you name me one that has gotten rid of thier item mall after they have established it?
Exactly. Why don't they give 100% of the proceeds if its "just for charity".. after all its just simple coded two "do nothing pets" surely it wouldn't put a ding on the mega giant?
It absolutely would be foolish to expand the system to selling things that make your character more powerful. That would be crossing the line. And Blizzard knows that or they would have done it already. If that does happen, that is when everyone should be in an uproar. This ridiculas over reaction to a completely optional feature that does not impact your character's standing in the game (well, someone might laugh at you if you have one of these pets) is uncalled for.
Save your righteous indignation for when it is actually justified.
Ah yes.. but if you hear the trains horn blowing loudly from around the corner, do you not leap off the tracks? Or do you stay there until you see it?
Interesting indeed.
Exactly. Why don't they give 100% of the proceeds if its "just for charity".. after all its just simple coded two "do nothing pets" surely it wouldn't put a ding on the mega giant?
Hell, why not be more generous with *other peoples money*? How about they give away all of their money? After all, they've made billions of dollars, certainly they don't *need* any more do they?...<rolls eyes> The fact remains that they didn't need to give them any money at all. Their motivation is irrelevant. The charity is no doubt VERY happy to have that money.
Ah yes.. but if you hear the trains horn blowing loudly from around the corner, do you not leap off the tracks? Or do you stay there until you see it?
Interesting indeed.
So, its inevitable that Blizzard will eventually start selling raid gear in the cash shop? Can I borrow that Crystal Ball of yours? I want to check the stock market for next year...
Why should those against RMT have the only voice? do those of us who think RMT isn't bad keep quiet? i would think all sides should be shown not just one side.
Then again some around here are going so overboard on the doom and gloom i think a little perspective is order.
I can personally see both sides, but the fact is blizzard so far is just selling fluff, should we freak out over "what if's?" i don't think so, its kinda like worrying about when the world is gonna end. Just because other mmo's have sold worse in their stores doesn't mean Blizzard will, and if they do hey, go play something else, the world won't end, really it won't.
Because the gamer's of WoW use to get the fluff included with their sub and box purchases maybe? You may be okay with buying a burger for years from a restaurant and then suddenly the burger joint deciding that ketchup for the burger will now not come with burgers any longer, you buy it seperately.
Some people like I decide that I don't want this companies products any longer and start shopping for burgers at other places they will include everything with my burger for one price. If enough people decide the same that they prefer not to be nickle and dimed then the other burger joint will realize they went over their limit with how much they can get away with and still keep customers. Businesses are always testing how far they can milk their customers without them leaving.
This above is what is happening. Anyone care to explain why item shops are a good thing?
Ah yes.. but if you hear the trains horn blowing loudly from around the corner, do you not leap off the tracks? Or do you stay there until you see it?
Interesting indeed.
So, its inevitable that Blizzard will eventually start selling raid gear in the cash shop? Can I borrow that Crystal Ball of yours? I want to check the stock market for next year...
Actually for me it does not matter what they sell in their store now when they have one. If the players want raid gear in the store then just add it, no different from having vanity pets there imo.
The wolf is already eating the sheep "Dimly aware by a certain unease in the air" :(
Ah yes.. but if you hear the trains horn blowing loudly from around the corner, do you not leap off the tracks? Or do you stay there until you see it?
Interesting indeed.
So, its inevitable that Blizzard will eventually start selling raid gear in the cash shop? Can I borrow that Crystal Ball of yours? I want to check the stock market for next year...
Sweet. I'll ask you the same question I asked Jon here... name one mmo that's started to adapt a cash shop into its game that's backed off. None? Hmm.. yes.. that's what I thought.
So your telling me that blizzard is going to be different?
A few questions for those who happily accept RMT. Whether you purchase illegally or through an in game store. Once you have what you want (especially in a game like WOW or EQ2). What do you do with your time in game? Now that the game equation has been taken away. How do you perform on your premade character? Is it confusing to start out after never taking the time to learn the gameplay and your build?
Do you feel epic when you beat someone down with your flaming super sized axe? The one you went through perilous adventures to obtain? Oh wait...
My tone in that one is somewhat condescending, sorry for that. However I feel the questions are fair given the nature of what you are doing. The biggest question I have is, how does it feel to run around on a toon many people know, yet they do not know you are not that person? Kinda awkward I bet :). Cherio.
I honestly look down on dumbasses who openly welcome the RMT system in sub games.
Sorry, you are not as smart as you think you are. I know what the reasons inside your head are. "A mark of an educated mind is to entertain a thought without accepting it", yet I feel the need to scorn seeing how stupid people can be, and I don't know if I want to entertain such reasoning, seeing what simple minds they come from.
Yes, I understand you have the burning desire to create an online image of yourself, being rich, carefree and "thoughtful - understanding the corp.'s point of view". Yet, it's funny how easy you are to figure out when a person take a college course of psychology. I do believe that your thinking capacity and your understanding of other people thoughts are limited at a certain level.
Now beside that point, we don't know if whether or not Blizzard is trying to implement an RMT system.
Sweet. I'll ask you the same question I asked Jon here... name one mmo that's started to adapt a cash shop into its game that's backed off. None? Hmm.. yes.. that's what I thought.
So your telling me that blizzard is going to be different?
Why would they need to put gear in a cash shop anyway. I mean right now I can start a character, in 2 weeks have him at level 80. Spend a week doing nothing but BGs, suck at them or not doesn't matter, and at the end of that week have a full set of purples on (doesn't matter if they are the best or not - they get ya to the next step). Now that I have my set of purples on I will pass initial gear inspection, and can beginning my next week of back to back heroic PUG to get my BETTER set of purples by the end of my first month. I can then pass the next stage of inspection, and finally join a decent raiding guild, where over the next 2-3 weeks I can finish out my top tier gear. All in all in 6-8 weeks I can go from start to top gear. Why would I need a cash shop gear system when I can already get it all so easy, they already hand it out like candy at Halloween.
Besides, Blizzard already has a cash shop, you pay for character transfers, you pay for character renames, you pay for character sex changes, faction changes, pretty soon you will be paying for more character slots - all with RL cash. Whats two vanity pets added to the already HUGE list they already have in their cash shop? You also going to tell me the trading card game isn't a form of cash shop that's been going for how long now? Drop $200 on the cards and you might get an in-game mount? That's about as cash shop as you can get, only now, its not a % chance to get what you want, you just click and get it for your money. And you don't have to figure out what to do with the thousands of paper cards that you will never use.
This entire argument is over semantics, should they have a cash shop, or shouldn't they. The problem is, they already do, they are just adding to it now.
I agree w/John, this is a non-issue for me. Having said that, I've played WoW since 1 month after it's release but if they EVER charge for needed in game items, I'm gone for good.
My view is simply this: There is content which my $15 monthly fee doesn't buy me. If I want access to 100% of the content, I now have to pay $20 extra in microtransactions. I thought the hundreds of dollars I've paid in subscription fees and expansion packs since release would at least give me access to all the content. Guess not, eh? I've been a subscriber since release day, but I canceled a few days ago.
I'm having more fun playing Fallen Earth anyway.
FE is getting in on the act too. iPhone app to handle crafting away from your PC.
Define "needed".
Define "needed".
I think he's referring to needing a certain buffing item from a RMT shop in order to complete an encounter, or that characters who don't perform RMT will not be viable (i.e. weapons above the quality of what can be found in PvP or PvE content).
I said it before and I'll say it again, I've already performed 2 separate microtransactions for $40 each after I bought the initial game (purchase of expansions). That's 120$ I've thrown at Blizz, along with 4 years of 15$ a month.
IMO, they need to either be philanthropic or not. Give all the money to charity, or none. Their greed at only giving a portion of the proceeds to charity is what really turns me off about them. 11 million subscribers isn't enough at 15$ a month to keep the ball rolling? FFS.
Thats the issue though isnt it? They are adding to it. Some of you people fail to see the aftermath of what this "little" thing will transpire to. As many have said, this is just the beginning. They'll start doing gear and other things at some point, its just a matter of time.
But you see, thats not what REALLY worries me. What worries me is that once they do so (I.E. there hasn't been one company thats backed off of cash shop once they started it) is that the rest of the industry will look at this mmo giant and see that this "pay a monthly charge then charge them for items that should be free in game via quest" is acceptable. It is not.
So yes, keep saying this little thing will be nothing, thats what they want you to say... after all that's the way all cash shops start.
I use to be on the RMT protester bandwagon until I realized that most companies that use it are trying to "survive" in one form or another.
But most importantly we are not seeing the Asian "way" to do it, which uses the system to "nickel and dime" their players long enough to gather money for their new MMO release as well as line their pockets at the same time. Thus keeping a stagnant pool of money coming in from a core group of players to fund future MMOs that see their budgets swell with every release due to improvements to graphics, system performance and global adaptability. This is one reason they have no problem with introducing game destroying items for their current MMOs, because they know they have another 10 down the pipeline to take it's place. Thus they all seem the same with only those 3 things I mentioned above to draw in more players. That way has no choice but to eventually crash and burn or something has to adapt.
Now keep in mind that Western developers just recently started this trend but with a different twist. Most developers here introduce RMTs after a game has been developed (or close to release) and most companies doing it only have 1 or 2 MMOs down the pipeline to sustain it's company. Reason being is that Western developers throw a LOT more money behind it's endeavors, even before the first line of code is written. And so I think they are following the trend set more so by what we see in console gaming marketplace stores. We will see more cosmetic/vanity type items as appose to game crushing items that quicken your ability to reach the pinnacle of enjoyment of a given game. Because they know that once players reach this point, the drop off can be sharp and very fast for the western market, thus throwing away millions in dollars, time and effort poured into a project.
So now you "may" have the 800 pound gorilla (WoW) testing out the acceptance of such a system and you think that only a handful of posters with no money funding their research can analyze things and come to a reasonable conclusion? And I say to you that's just as absurd as to think that Blizzard would follow suit of a dying Asian RMT system when it already has the upper hand throughout the ENTIRE market to begin with........
As long as they are vanity objects and nontradeable, I don't think it's so bad. I think my opinion on the subject has slowly evolved toward one of grudging acceptance. I would like to be able to get cool, vanity type items in game for free, but since everything is about squeezing another dime from the turnip (me) I am resigned to atleast having another option.
I think my hardline stance changed somewhat when I discovered my wife has been buying Sims 3 points to buy furniture and stuff. At first I was shocked because she is so thrifty usually. Then I felt cheated because I hadn't been doing the same thing with my games.
Give me more hairstyles, the ability to customize my appearance, vanity clothing, pets, mounts, whatever. Really I think these things should be covered by my subscription, but if the alternative is to get nothing, I vote atleast to have a limited cash shop.
Personally, I see this as a stepping stone. Did I buy the pets? Yep, both of them. But I foresee more than just vanity items coming....like XP Potions and Hierloom gear "points" that can be used like the emblems currently used to purchase the hierloom items.
I doubt though they'll ever put anything of great value that if you don't have you will die (like having Relentless gear vs Savage gear).
Simple common sense
Don't buy it if you don't agree with it.
No one is forcing people to buy and no one is getting an advantage for buying it. The "bitch" is moot and the reasons are silly. Complaining because some people will spend money :)
My only take on the pro/con is Blizzard should have made a 75%-100% contribution of the funds to the Make-a-wish foundation. The act of altruism would have done more for them that offering 50% of an item that took the time to model,render and implement,a few days of work .
I do understand the desire to make capitol but with subs sliding,people moving to other games and more waiting on others ,a true "appearance sake" act of altruism would have gone a hell of a lot further in sympathy coin than 50% :)
Good luck with your pets
Good points. Someone in their PR department dropped the ball Big Time(tm). But the charity gets money they wouldn't have had in any event, so its all to the good. I doubt blizzards subs are slipping that much, not with 3.3 coming in a couple of months. But after 3.3 its going to be quite a while until Cat launches. Then we might see some slippage.
I wasn't stupid enough to buy that game either. I am not subscribed to any MMOs at the moment as they all are trying for money grabs. I don't support greed. Blizzard wasn't in the red nor were they just breaking even .. they have had record profits. Now they want to cut out fluff items that would have been in the game for your sub and box purchases and make you pay extra for them.
The saddest part is people are lined up to defend them. It's your money, I don't care but I will not be buying or support games that do this.
I can't Blame you. I own WOW, But I cant play it anymore because Blizzard has done anything to make the game play worthy. Sure they added a dungeon here and there. A few more pointless mounts. Stupid vanity pets. But nothing worthy of paying 14.99 for. They say they are doing this for charity. Sounds like BS to me. All the cash they have made on a monthly basis over the years. They can't donate a portion of that to charity. Sounds like they don't want to come up out their own pockets to support so said charity. If thats the case the that charity is assed out.
I wasn't stupid enough to buy that game either. I am not subscribed to any MMOs at the moment as they all are trying for money grabs. I don't support greed. Blizzard wasn't in the red nor were they just breaking even .. they have had record profits. Now they want to cut out fluff items that would have been in the game for your sub and box purchases and make you pay extra for them.
The saddest part is people are lined up to defend them. It's your money, I don't care but I will not be buying or support games that do this.
And really, dissenters of the RMT should take from this poster's example. Make your choice with your wallets. Don't like it, don't support it. As long as there's people lining up to fork it over, don't try and ruin it for the rest of them. They are happy and the MMORPG genre in itself is large enough to accommodate all sorts of people. It seems like some of these people have to find the right ones for them to be able to enjoy the MMORPG concept or perhaps they should look outside MMORPG if they cannot find anything. That just means the genre just isn't for you. It's like forcing yourself to read fantasy books when your interest lies in non-fiction World War II or Murder Mysteries, because the only people that are at a loss in regards to this are the ones that still care enough to make a huge gripe about it ;) As long as they are supported, they really don't need you and thats just the ugly truth.
And really, dissenters of the RMT should take from this poster's example. Make your choice with your wallets. Don't like it, don't support it. As long as there's people lining up to fork it over, don't try and ruin it for the rest of them. They are happy and the MMORPG genre in itself is large enough to accommodate all sorts of people. It seems like some of these people have to find the right ones for them to be able to enjoy the MMORPG concept or perhaps they should look outside MMORPG if they cannot find anything. That just means the genre just isn't for you. It's like forcing yourself to read fantasy books when your interest lies in non-fiction World War II or Murder Mysteries, because the only people that are at a loss in regards to this are the ones that still care enough to make a huge gripe about it ;) As long as they are supported, they really don't need you and thats just the ugly truth.
The basic concept is "We'll leave this crack out there after you've had some hits, and we'll just see if someone pays for it". Lots of people did actually buy dragon age with the intent to not buy the extras, or didn't but the game period. Less from the latter due to the game being a good game.
The bigger issue is the reality of "how much have you spent on world of warcraft?" and when you look at subscription cost + transfers + all sorts of additional things that cost cash which can be purchased out of game, you'll realize how much you've really spent. Was that $600+ for 3 years of something that you can't "take with you" in any form actually valuable? You have memories, but only for/with yourself, not anything you can just say "here, check it out yourself" about.
Activision has been the spearhead of trying to milk more money than just the price for a game time and time again. That's who I've boycotted. Don't blame blizzard, blame blizzard's corporate owner, Activision. EA is the only company worse, that I can think of.
There is nothing wrong with RMT except that companies are only willing to let it go one way, exception being sony. Why can't you sell these pets to other people for your own real cash? This is the problem, and decrying that the whole thing is idiotic is what shows the real problem. They're only letting the money leave your wallet, not come back into.
So who here thinks this is a test case for future things to come ??
I sure do think that this is only just the beginning of blizzard's master plan to go over to micro transactions in the end. Now sure its good they are donating half of it to charity but wouldn't you think they would donate all to the said charity instead of cheapening it just to make a little extra money on the side??
- When blizzard introduced char server transfers, they boys cried wolf (that pve->pvp transfers will be possible). Blizzard said this will never happen due to the advantages a pve player would have.
- When blizzard introduced faction transfers, they boys cried wolf (that race changes will be possible). Blizzard said this will not happen because the racial skills give advantages and they don't want people to change to a fotm race.
- Well now the boys cry wolf about buying items. You can already buy an 3x xp gain, altough you have to play with a friend so its a bit limited. But I can see them starting with selling heirlooms for real money and go on from there.
- Another wolf cry. After gender, race and faction changes. Class changes will come next.
Things like this (charging subscription fee AND RMTs) rarely happen in big steps. Champion Online started with worthless, fluff items but then now recently introduced a free respec.
That is how it starts, harmless things at first, but later more and more are sneaked in. Just wait and see...
I believe as well that this is a slippery slope... and once started, will commence with whatever we ALLOW them to charge us additional money for.
Things like this (charging subscription fee AND RMTs) rarely happen in big steps. Champion Online started with worthless, fluff items but then now recently introduced a free respec.
That is how it starts, harmless things at first, but later more and more are sneaked in. Just wait and see...
I believe as well that this is a slippery slope... and once started, will commence with whatever we ALLOW them to charge us additional money for.
Apparently you don't understand capitalism (which makes you a liberal). WoW has competition from other mmo/games, so if they start charging more and you don't like it move to another game.
I believe as well that this is a slippery slope... and once started, will commence with whatever we ALLOW them to charge us additional money for.
Apparently you don't understand capitalism (which makes you a liberal). WoW has competition from other mmo/games, so if they start charging more and you don't like it move to another game.
Sounds like a good Idea to me. But in any case 14.99 is too much to pay anyhow. I played for two to three years and most of the time was spent soloing. One feature they should think about adding into the game, is soloability. If Turbine(D&DO) considered it. Then why not Blizzard(World of Warcraft). You want people to play together. But I honestly think people are afraid to make freinds in an mmo. They feel might get wrong in some way. So when you can find what you looking for in any mmo move until you find what your looking for. Specially when it come to sub fee. Even though they all charge the same amount.
they told you Stradden
Um, another non-combat pet and a mount that is only as fast as your current fastest mount, doesn't go against the author's original statement. These aren't game altering pets/mounts. You gain nothing other than a different graphic to take you from place to place with the mount.
Done.
BTW - I understand capitalism very well. I just don't like it.
Nope. Besides it called buissness. Of cores it's about the money