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Mortal Online : First Interview
Posted Sep 08, 2009 by Jon Wood
In his first ever interview with MMORPG.com, Mats Persson, the Creative Director and Game Designer of Star Vault's upcoming MMORPG Mortal Online answers some questions about the game and some of the more interesting design elements around them.
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MMORPG.com:
For those who might not be familiar with the game, can you tell us a little bit about Mortal Online?
Mats Persson:
Mortal Online is a first-person sandbox MMO set in a believable fantasy environment. Although the game is not necessarily about PvP, its core is built around player skill and PvP as opposed to experience points, levels and a PvP-mode glued on top. Mortal Online revolves around player-to-player interaction more than solo-journeys and quests; it has full loot, sandbox crafting, housing and very seldom follows the streamlined design-rules and automated systems of modern cookie-cutter MMO's. In short, it's a niche skill-based fantasy game for a mature audience. The game is currently in Beta stage with nearly 10.000 accounts.
It's very difficult to describe Mortal Online in a few sentences as it is very different from most of the MMOG's out there. Now please understand I don't use that cliché for marketing purposes, it simply is a niche game that some will like because of its unique approach and some won't because it's too different from their style of play or what they are used to. The game does not necessarily build on or "learn" from the errors or the steps taken by big-name MMO's; it's designed from scratch simply because we want to evaluate each design-choice from the questions:
Read the first interview.
Good interview, i wonder why there is no single word on Darkfall, just Eve as another Sandbox MMO.
I don't like that they will leave out sieging, keeps, fortresses etc for launch.. will probably not get involved in Mortal Online in the beginning, but maybe later..
Sounds good. It's particularly nice to see someone who actually seems to understand consequences of design decisions and how to counter the weaknesses (it's a reference to the lack of this insight with Darkfall). Time will tell if this translates to the released game.
Looked through the powerpoint briefly and certainly a lot of promising features. The only part I dislike is what is essentially a skill decay system. I would certainly prefer other ways to prevent people from actively using too many combat skills at the same time. But at least the system seems well thought out.
I'm also excited about first person view. DF has this to some degree and even then it's a huuuuuge boost to immersion.
The reason the will steer away from mentioning Darkfall is obvious. The so called originality and differentiators MO provides don't exist especially when DFO came first.
I totally understand and agree with Mats that sieging etc does not need to be in the game at launch, why waste time getting this into the game for launch when its only going to be used by a small minority of players and probably not for a good while after launch.
From what I understand of the concept behind sieging is that you dont carry that massive Trebuchet to the castle and plonk it down, they want guilds to have to build them, defend them and transport them to the siege location, kind of like they really used to do in olden times.
Personally I am looking forward to what they plan for the guild tools, housing concepts etc
This is full of fail.
Care to elaborate on why, or just trolling?
Full of fail for you is full of win for me....
I am game...
think I will pre-order now
The comparison to EVE was that it is a niche that started small and grew over time. At least the way I read it. Putting Darkfall in there would say that they are going to lie to everyone for 2 yrs, release an unfinished grind based game with crap graphics, crap map, pre-built player cities/housing with no customization etc etc... the list goes on. Darkfall was a pathetic excuse for a game and at best a well thought out scam. I'm glad the only reason DF comes up with MO devs is for its failures as there is absolutely no positive to be learned from DF, only what not to do.
The reason the will steer away from mentioning Darkfall is obvious. The so called originality and differentiators MO provides don't exist especially when DFO came first.
I'm sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong. First of all, both DF and MO are following the sandbox MMO model which was made popular by UO back in the day. If you compare the features of DF and MO, then it's quite clear that only the most basic elements are the same. Basic elements such as both games being sandboxes and having full loot FFA PvP. Both of those features are borrowed from UO. Pretty much everything else is quite a bit different between DF and MO.
Now, the reason why MO devs choose to constantly not mention DF is not because they are afraid of the competition, but instead because they don't wish to publicly badmouth other games and dev companies. Fact is that DF got many things wrong and if MO devs were to mention DF in their interviews they'd have to also mention those bad things. Can you really blame them for choosing not to bring up DF at all?
I don't agree with the first paragraph, but the second one is pretty much correct.
The main reason why they have at this stage decided to not try and get sieges ready for launch is simply because the way they wish to implement it is rather complex and it would take quite a bit of time to get it ready, time, which can better be used on other, so called core features of the game. They quite simply don't wish to implement a half-assed siege system, they want to do something more, something better, but this means they will have to spend more time on it.
Care to elaborate on why, or just trolling?
Different for the sake of different. And because most of those systems are in place to help with the real fact you a person looking at a computer screen and not a real person in a world with all your senses at your disposal. Topped off with the fact that anonymity + internet + avatar = assholes.
Navigation of the interface should never be part of your game challenge equation, content is the real gauge, not GUI or lack of. a good GUI is seamless and second nature to the user and mostly goes unnoticed.
They have essentially ignored the fun (and all innovations to that end), and imbued the game with some notion that reality and realistic is fun. Its not, because you are not really there. Its just leads to frustration and grieving.
Game play/fun > Reality. There is simply no way to get around your playing a computer game, and the real limitations it imposes.
The entire premise that those systems were developed for casuals is false. They were developed and added for everyone. The wording also sounds like they have a disdain for casual players, ignoring the vast majority in this way is not good design, it adhering to a forum warriors misplaced credo and is missing the point of any level of competency in game design. AKA, this is an armchair developer speaking, not someone in a place of professional knowledge that is looking at the title as a product and making a game that people will enjoy.
You know where to put your troll comment.
You really need to wait and play Mortal Online at release before you say how much better it is than Darkfall. Right now all Mortal Online has is a list of planned features and the developers goal for what they want. It might all sound fantastic but it actually needs to be in the game and it needs to work properly before you can say how amazing any of it is. The fact is that Darkfall will have gone through at least two expansions and numerous small patches by the time MO will release and MO cannot compete with how complete DF will be at that stage.
MO may release in Q4 this year as they advertise, but if that happens it will be solely for budget reasons. I do hope that SV manage to pull it out of the bag and deliver what they promise but I have my doubts.
That is so subjective. Yes, I play to have fun, but that's not all of it. Some of us also want to escape reality, try out other lives that would be "impossible" in reality. "What if I were a blacksmith, a farmer or a villain in the medieval". I don't really see why minimaps, auto-maps, levels, quests, auto-loot, auto-loot-distribution, auction-houses, global chat are necessary, it just a reminder that you're playing a stupid computer game. Nor do I want to be a superhero or a demigod, just a citizen in a fantasy world, living a life would never have been able to in his "reality".
So to sum it up, I disagree with you.
Different for the sake of different. And because most of those systems are in place to help with the real fact you a person looking at a computer screen and not a real person in a world with all your senses at your disposal. Topped off with the fact that anonymity + internet + avatar = assholes.
Navigation of the interface should never be part of your game challenge equation, content is the real gauge, not GUI or lack of. a good GUI is seamless and second nature to the user and mostly goes unnoticed.
They have essentially ignored the fun (and all innovations to that end), and imbued the game with some notion that reality and realistic is fun. Its not, because you are not really there. Its just leads to frustration and grieving.
Game play/fun > Reality. There is simply no way to get around your playing a computer game, and the real limitations it imposes.
The entire premise that those systems were developed for casuals is false. They were developed and added for everyone. The wording also sounds like they have a disdain for casual players, ignoring the vast majority in this way is not good design, it adhering to a forum warriors misplaced credo and is missing the point of any level of competency in game design. AKA, this is an armchair developer speaking, not someone in a place of professional knowledge that is looking at the title as a product and making a game that people will enjoy.
You know where to put your troll comment.
The way I see it is a game with features I personally have been looking for and find fun. I'm part of a niche group of gamers that finds this type of gameplay fun and rewarding. Apparently you are not, and that is fine, however there are a million wow clones and f2p Asian grinders out there for you. For people like me there is EVE which is a spreadsheet in space, and DarkFail which is a scam at best made and run by a dishonest company.
You say the developers dont have professional knowledge and are apparently doing something wrong for making a game you won't enjoy. The developers are gamers themselves, and are making a game they will enjoy as well as the rest of us that fall into this niche. I will take a gamer for a developer any day over the corporate CEO's with their fat paychecks and closed doors with no community interaction at all. You enjoy playing your games, done to death by people who have no passion for their work. Run by people who aren't even gamers and are just trying to make a living.
I'll settle for fun game play. Also it will be nice if I don't get charged twice for the same game after promising I wouldn't be. In addition it would be awesome if I could play with my friends and not have them have their accounts banned for billing errors on the companies end. Finally, should all the above happen, I might even just settle for said company not accusing said friends account of hacking, 2 months after it was canceled and banned for billing issues on said companies side and refusing further appeal on the matter.
What you refer to as expansions are what the rest of us see as content promised at release, for 3 yrs, promised day 1 in game. In addition, changes to what is most likely a spreadsheet on skill gain, making the game less off a grind, something that could have been done in beta. Aventurine is Darkfalls own worst enemy, I sense item shops in DF's future, direct cash deposits to Tasos' paypal account just like the NA launch.
The best things about this game (so far for me) are no maps (besides player made ones), no global chat and local banking.
Getting lost could be a real possibility. Player interaction will be much deeper than other mmo's due to the alienating effect with not having a global chat channel. Also, a lot of cool sandboxy elements arise with the introduction of local banking. All good things imo.
I like how the MO fans come out in droves and start shittalking DF with darkfail and scams and all the other good stuff, when it's completely unrelated to the article.
Perhaps you guys should keep quiet and continue bug testing and supporting the game, which is what it needs considering MO's beta right now.
Just saying.
Come out in droves? There was like one person in the whole thread who said something bad about DF and the first one to mention DF was a guy who tried to downplay MO by saying that it's just copying DF.
Stop trying to play the victim here. Just saying.
Its really good to see that soon, we will get 2 choice of game that are clone of UO with fpv gameplay. I play DF at the moment and i started when the grind had been reduced and pvp is fun now for even newbs and average players. We can now kill vets if we play better.
But when mortal online will release, thats where i will be because im a fan of oblivion and MO gameplay kind of follow it more.
Eve has every feature they dislike or will not be using, making my point. It is still a unique game, with common to the genre features while still having unique game play and a niche appeal. The rest of your post is part assumptions to my meaning, and lack of comprehension.
Those features, and being niche are not mutually exclusive.
I would also be careful in assuming that niche games are not for someone, you never know who your talking to.
Could it work out? Maybe. Will it? Signs point to no, as this is not the first game to even try.
First off, first person view does not work in an MMO unless you offer it as an option. The vast majority of players want to see what they are wearing. I don't grasp how posters think they need first person view for immersion.
Secondly this game is just not ready. They really need at least another year, which of course won't happen so all the initial players will be essentially paying to beta test it.
It is a shame we are getting these half done or poorly done games in this niche, most of us are still waiting for a decent MMO to fill it.
Different for the sake of different.
...You know where to put your troll comment.
Good and valid opinions, to which I agree to a certain extent. To the parts I don't agree, others have neatly summed the arguments previously in this thread, so I refrain from iterating them.
Didn't say you were a troll, it just came out that way when spurting out comments like that with no meat to back it up. Why didn't you just include your comments in your first post, if you didn't want to come off as a troll? (no need to answer that actually)
EVE is a sci-fi game, they can justify having advanced positioning systems and displaying a great amount of data to the player. MO will take place in a medieval low fantasy world, where technology is not nearly as advanced, so it simply wouldn't make sense to implement them if one wishes to strive for realism, as MO developers clearly do.
If you feel the rest of my post had too many assumptions then you simply should have made your points in a more clear fashion, since I'm confident I have no problems with comprehending the English language.
And of course those features can be incorporated into a sandbox MMO, but the MO devs simply chose not to do so, since they feel their approach encourages more direct player to player interaction, which in my mind is what MMORPG's should be about.
Also, I did not assume a single thing about your playing preferences, I was speaking in general.
The people who wish to see what they are wearing can use mirrors, water reflections, or a paperdoll which will be added to the character/inventory screen.
You don't grasp how posters think they need FPV for immersion, I don't grasp how people can get immersed in a game that does not have FPV. It's a matter of preference and that's that.
While Mortal Online does sound full of potential, it smells far too much of some of the things that make Darkfall a truly awful experience.
Specifically full loot = people who have min-maxed butchering noobies/taking their stuff and generally turning them right off the game before they really start getting into it.
Skills good if done right. Darkfall = blood walls = Epic Fail.
think about it guys (no girls here i guess), think if they actually can pull this. oh man what a joy. so im cheering for the devs and I wish them best of luck. Cuse it seems that you are into something that maybe can give us mmo-junkies something new to bite on.
Different for the sake of different. And because most of those systems are in place to help with the real fact you a person looking at a computer screen and not a real person in a world with all your senses at your disposal. Topped off with the fact that anonymity + internet + avatar = assholes.
Navigation of the interface should never be part of your game challenge equation, content is the real gauge, not GUI or lack of. a good GUI is seamless and second nature to the user and mostly goes unnoticed. Excellent point, yet sadly, totally irrelevant, since no where did he say that the interface was going to be difficult to navigate.
They have essentially ignored the fun (and all innovations to that end), and imbued the game with some notion that reality and realistic is fun. Its not, because you are not really there. This of course, is totally silly, if reality were the opposite of fun, we would all still be playing games that look like Pong. You're ill-stated idea is that there should be a balance struck between reality and fun, which is true, but the idea, for instance, that using an auction house is more fun than conducting your own auction (just to use an example) in an auction area is patently false. It is more convienent, if you don't like to spend time buying and selling, but using an auction house is not fun. Word of Warcraft an it's ilk have generated a whole generation of players who don't understand how much fun trading can be. Its just leads to frustration and grieving.
Game play/fun > Reality. There is simply no way to get around your playing a computer game, and the real limitations it imposes. Now you're putting words into the mouths of the developers. Where did they say that they were sacrificing 'fun' for convienence. When two people in tandem slay a beast, and one takes the good loot and runs off, the other player has the option to kill the first, to ruin their name among other players, or to secretly plot revenge - all of these things can be entertaining.
The entire premise that those systems were developed for casuals is false. They were developed and added for everyone. Everyone playing non-competivie PVE games, you mean. The wording also sounds like they have a disdain for casual players, ignoring the vast majority in this way is not good design, it adhering to a forum warriors misplaced credo and is missing the point of any level of competency in game design. This is opinion, stated as fact. There were 10's of thousands of players who played UO, then played Everquest, and went back to UO. You need to learn to articulate the difference between game design and game elements. AKA, this is an armchair developer speaking, not someone in a place of professional knowledge that is looking at the title as a product and making a game that people will enjoy. He's obviously not an arm-chair developer, he's got 10,000 people playing his game. You're the armchair developer in this situation.
Say it again, at some point, you will believe it if you say it enough.
Different for the sake of different. And because most of those systems are in place to help with the real fact you a person looking at a computer screen and not a real person in a world with all your senses at your disposal. Topped off with the fact that anonymity + internet + avatar = assholes.
Navigation of the interface should never be part of your game challenge equation, content is the real gauge, not GUI or lack of. a good GUI is seamless and second nature to the user and mostly goes unnoticed. Excellent point, yet sadly, totally irrelevant, since no where did he say that the interface was going to be difficult to navigate.
They have essentially ignored the fun (and all innovations to that end), and imbued the game with some notion that reality and realistic is fun. Its not, because you are not really there. This of course, is totally silly, if reality were the opposite of fun, we would all still be playing games that look like Pong. You're ill-stated idea is that there should be a balance struck between reality and fun, which is true, but the idea, for instance, that using an auction house is more fun than conducting your own auction (just to use an example) in an auction area is patently false. It is more convienent, if you don't like to spend time buying and selling, but using an auction house is not fun. Word of Warcraft an it's ilk have generated a whole generation of players who don't understand how much fun trading can be. Its just leads to frustration and grieving.
Game play/fun > Reality. There is simply no way to get around your playing a computer game, and the real limitations it imposes. Now you're putting words into the mouths of the developers. Where did they say that they were sacrificing 'fun' for convienence. When two people in tandem slay a beast, and one takes the good loot and runs off, the other player has the option to kill the first, to ruin their name among other players, or to secretly plot revenge - all of these things can be entertaining.
The entire premise that those systems were developed for casuals is false. They were developed and added for everyone. Everyone playing non-competivie PVE games, you mean. The wording also sounds like they have a disdain for casual players, ignoring the vast majority in this way is not good design, it adhering to a forum warriors misplaced credo and is missing the point of any level of competency in game design. This is opinion, stated as fact. There were 10's of thousands of players who played UO, then played Everquest, and went back to UO. You need to learn to articulate the difference between game design and game elements. AKA, this is an armchair developer speaking, not someone in a place of professional knowledge that is looking at the title as a product and making a game that people will enjoy. He's obviously not an arm-chair developer, he's got 10,000 people playing his game. You're the armchair developer in this situation.
Your just as bad with the assumptions and lack of comprehension as the other guy.
"No. Mortal Online is a niche game and we don't see ourselves as competitors to the big names out there. To be big you have to have mass-appeal, and to have that you will have to cater to casual players, in turn meaning lowering the difficulty of everything from combat, PvP and crafting, and introduce a whole dimension of solo-play features such as quests and story progression, not to mention easy-to-understand concepts like levels and classes. And that's the opposite of our game."
Best paragraph ever.
i love the FIRST PERSON VIEW ONLY idea in a mmo like this
it will make aven an easy mode game become very hard
imagine playing wow in fpv only wow ,talk about hard mode ,most player dont believe how hard a game become
i wish more game had server blocked to fpv
Also, full of fail. And where I got the irrational forum user hate for casuals. That paragraph is incredibly condescending and ignorant.
I'm sure it will get the people who think they are hardcore frothing however. Right up to the point they find out they are really not really "hardcore".
Guess I'll just wait for MO to implement large scale pvp ala sieges and watch it's development till then. No harm done, at least they are open about it.
Also, full of fail. And where I got the irrational forum user hate for casuals. That paragraph is incredibly condescending and ignorant.
I'm sure it will get the people who think they are hardcore frothing however. Right up to the point they find out they are really not really "hardcore".
LOL, it seems to have gotten your panties in a knot. Do you happen to be one of those simpletons?
Your just as bad with the assumptions and lack of comprehension as the other guy.
My apologies, next time I will assume you mean something totally different from what you say. We can only hope that one day the mind reading abilities from a computer game will all be transferred to us, so we can understand what a true genius like you is saying, even when you're saying something totally different.
Your just as bad with the assumptions and lack of comprehension as the other guy.
My apologies, next time I will assume you mean something totally different from what you say. We can only hope that one day the mind reading abilities from a computer game will all be transferred to us, so we can understand what a true genius like you is saying, even when you're saying something totally different.
Or, you could read what I type, and not insert your own assumptions, then attack me on the basis of those assumptions.
Because it leaves me no reason to clarify anything.
But you knew this.
My apologies, next time I will assume you mean something totally different from what you say. We can only hope that one day the mind reading abilities from a computer game will all be transferred to us, so we can understand what a true genius like you is saying, even when you're saying something totally different.
How else do you think he has so many posts. He posts some stupid shit, others like you call him on it, then he posts twenty more times calling into question your reading comprehension etc.
[quote]think about it guys (no girls here i guess), think if they actually can pull this. oh man what a joy. so im cheering for the devs and I wish them best of luck. Cuse it seems that you are into something that maybe can give us mmo-junkies something new to bite on.[/Quote]
that's the spirit, you are free criticsize all you want to, but AFTER the game is released, until now just wish the dream will come true, and cheer the devs who have the balls to make something outside of the main stream.
That's why i don't hate Darkfall devs, even if their game was a freaking dissapointement for me, they at least dared to make something different, that hopefully create change in minds. And from what i see they made huge progress with last patches.
I don't understand how people can spill their hate on the one developper who is frank about his opinion and the game status, while the same people appraise the marketing guys of big company with words full of shit and interviews where you learn nothing just to hype their game ...
Dont pay any mind to Bloodworth.
He's a prolific poster that likes to argue on the forums and blend in trolling with some logic, just enough for him to keep posting and not get banned.
But truthfully if you read his posts he does not really bring anything of value to a discussion.
I really don't know how to feel about this game. On the one hand, it tickles me right where pre-Trammel UO used to, but with up to date graphics and such. I really like to concepts they have been talking about, but I'm not convinced that they can deliver, yet. I honestly don't think DF/AV delivered, and I'm certainly not going to shell out any cash to find out at this point... it's still in beta and I have no idea if the current state of the game is at all reflective of what the released game will be like. I've been keeping an eye on MO though, and I will continue to do so until I get an opportunity to really see what happens and maybe even get an opportunity to try it out for myself.
Oh and welcome to my blocked list all you fine, lovely trolls in this thread... have a nice stay.
Also, full of fail. And where I got the irrational forum user hate for casuals. That paragraph is incredibly condescending and ignorant.
I'm sure it will get the people who think they are hardcore frothing however. Right up to the point they find out they are really not really "hardcore".
Tbf it seems more as though you are displacing your predudice as to what constitutes a 'casual' gamer than anything he has said. You seem to automatically assume that it's derogatory in some way. The whole principle of casual gameing is to increase the rate at which satisfaction in whatever form the game can enduce it, is achieved. By it's very nature a casual game aimed at casual gamers will have short cuts and simplifications that over time have been accepted and requested by many casual players. And a good thing to, there have been times in my life where rl has meant I was a casual mmo'er and tbh instant gratification in my limited play time was exactly what I was looking for.
However I fail to see how MO in it's innitial release won't also be a casual game, moreso even than WoW and the like. There are no extreme concepts to understand and the only learning curve will be avoiding mass gankage. If the combat is done well the learning curve will be in honing your pvp skills to the games nuances, after playing PS for 6 years and still learning I'm kinda looking forward to that challenge.
Back to the interview, given their stance on other design choices (local banking, full loot) I cant understand why there was no mention of decay. For all his want of a stable player driven economy there simply won't be one without it, they are mutually exclusive. There was nothing about what goals will exist to players when the game releases if there are no sieges etc.
I understand that he was simply answering the question put in front of him, but it is part of his job to sell his game. The niche he's looking for will want to know the answers to more important questions than those that were asked and he should have taken the opportunity to do so. What is the long term playability of the game with regards to its resouce availability and crafting infrastructure, what measures/mechanics will there be to assist in the longevity of the economy. I dont' want to have to scrape a 100 gold in the first year and be stupidly wealthy only to have an equivalent a year later of a billion.
He spoke about the relationship between crafting and combat but didn't really explain how it will work, just that it will because people fighting will need crafted items. The whole metagame created by local banking is a massive plus to this but over time this will wither if the balance to the resources themselves isn't there.
I also felt that there was a huge skim over the murderer/ainto-ganking thing, just that it will work but 'it's hard to explain in words'? Well I'm potentially going to invest in your game,... fucking try.
I know I'm probably expecting too much from an initial 2 page interview but tbh the whole 2 pages was filled with shit that is not important, 90% of it was repeated continually and was a lot of aspiration, not enough substance. I guess thats just not what the interview was about, off to the site to see if I can find answers, I'll not hold my breath.
Edit: I dont proof read, sue me.
Tbf it seems more as though you are displacing your predudice as to what constitutes a 'casual' gamer than anything he has said. You seem to automatically assume that it's derogatory in some way.
Not sure how you can read any of that as non derogatory.
That's fine though. We will see come launch.
Why would I respond to you clowns seriously?
Exactly what I was saying: you dont.
Shouldn't you be playing the second coming of the mecca game darkfall, that clearly I was completely wrong about?
OOOOO, that's right! I wasn't.
Its fine if you guys dont agree with me, I have never cared. But that still makes you wrong.
There hasn't been a post in response to my post that has a made a lick of since other than "Im so hardcore please cockpunch me on death", and are simply full of assumptions, straw men, and attacks.
Why would I respond to you clowns seriously?
I don't post hate, I post criticisms. I leave the hating to you guys. You never disappoint
.
Ok, point out where I said "I am so hardcore", where my false assumptions lie, where the straw men were and where the attacks are. You were clearly 100% wrong in calling the guy an 'armchair developer", though. When you say something as silly as that, it's prone to discredit other things you say, which is a logical fallacy, but luckily in this case, the other things you say were full of false assumptions anyway, so no harm done.
No real developer would say such things, they may think it, but they will do the best they can not to say it in public. Its amateur at best, and borne of forums.
"Back to the interview, given their stance on other design choices (local banking, full loot) I cant understand why there was no mention of decay. For all his want of a stable player driven economy there simply won't be one without it, they are mutually exclusive. "
Well he can't talk about everything, of course there will be decay, he has explained it many time on the forums, check on the MO official forums all the posts of "Mats Persson" you'll have a good read about the game, especially his posts about crafting and how it will fit in the economy
Actually there is 2 attributes of durability for weapons/armor, the "durability" and the "durability type".
Here is a quote from the same Mats, the durability is explained in the example at the end :
"The main attributes of a weapon are:
Speed
Range
Damage
Generally speaking, the better the weapon is in two of these attributes, the worse it is in the third. A weapon with good Range and Damage are not that good for Speed (like a Halberd). A weapon that has both high Speed and Range, doesn't give as much damage (like a Spear). And a weapon that has good Speed and Damage doesn't have very good Range (like an Arming Sword).
But almost as important factors are for instance (many of these are of course connected in some way or another, but still important as individual characteristics):
Durability
Durability Type
Availability/Price*
Crafting Difficulty (and Crafting Prerequisites)
Skill Prerequisites
Weight
Strength Requirement
Stamina Drain
Blunt Damage
Cutting Damage
Piercing Damage
Enchant Difficulty
Enchant Modifier
Armor Gusset Hit Modifier
Grip Quality
..and a few more
*Not a stat, rather a result of supply and demand
No single handle, head or material is "the best one", as that will vary depending on your personal fighting style and character skill setup. Also, one combination might be very good against a certain armor but perform bad against another.
To give you a quick example, your precious Diamond Blade, although you won't be able to craft a "diamond blade" in MO so I choose Nyx (like Onyx) instead, will be very sharp but also very light, resulting in much less Blunt Damage than even a "common" Steel Blade. The Durability Type of the Diamond/Nyx sword would mean it would be very resistant (hard) against a lot of other materials, but once it cracked, it would be totally useless due to its very low Durability. Furthermore, it would be rather easy to Enchant, but not as easy, or give the same bonuses, as the Bone Blade you mention (depending on what type of Bone you used)."
The flagging system is explained here :
http://www.mortalonline.com/combat/flagging
Read especially the PDF files to get a real overview of the flagging mechanics
This interview is to explain what MO is about, if you want to learn about the metagame, etc. just have peek to Mortal Online forums :)
This game looks awesome.. But I've learned to fear awesomeness in MMOs...
Let's just say I used to love UO and I'll be keeping an eye on this one...
I hope Star Vault pulls it off, this game sounds great!
To those who think this game will fail, you can not deny that this game sounds great. These games are trying to establish a new breed of gameplay. Its not easy. Bloodworth is "critizing" SV for an attempt to bring something new to the table. Clearly bloodworth was once one of the optimists cause he likes to read about these games. He has some kinda hope, but the rest of his hope was most likely broken and crushed in his previous searches for the "right" game. After a series of dissappointments I wouldn't blame bloodworth for feeling hurt. He's just mad at the world cause he cant find his place. It's just dissappointing to see people hate on others for trying to accomplish what no one has. I support SV. If they fail...damn. But i won't start crying and hating whatever comes next.
Well said and good post. Until then we have to pray and hope. Maybe one day a AAA company will try to cater to this long neglected niche audience. The market is currently over-saturated in casual-themepark mmo's. Meanwhile, sandbox type players are frothing at the mouth for anything.
They can talk the talk but can they walk the walk, I guess that's the question right now. Also, briefly to place a counter-argument to those championing realism. A game set in medieval fantasy setting cannot justify anything by stating it is a way to create realism. There is no realism in dragons, trolls, giants or minotaurs the last I checked nor was that the case during medieval times either contrary to the popular belief. The day someone starts casting in Mortal Online you can justify world maps as well in this setting as in EVEs case, there is no form of pseudo-realism preventing you. You can say it is a design choice but for the sake of muffin, don't say it is a case of realism.
The realism also leads to another concern of mine -- the viability of non-adventurous gameplay. From what I understood from the interview, the Secondary skills are the ones you unlock after mastering your Primary ones. In this very same pseudo-real world they are touting, it ought to be possible for one to be just a simple gatherer, but if you have to unlock your way to gathering by learning Primary skills (that strongly seem to lean on fighting based on this interview) it renders everyone an adventurer. Where's the realism in that? Also, in which world of realism killing, admittedly neutral, gatherer in the wilderness makes you a criminal? You killed someone and noone saw and noone really cares either -- the least that merchant or other NPC in town willing to make a living.
All-in-all, based on this interview and some semi-indolent forums browsing, the realism is a glorified facade built up by the developer to justify design decisions. As has been noted on other messages in this very same thread, this realism is driving players away from the game for no apparent reason. Making the game "difficult" is solely a synonym for saying that you are making the game time-consuming as the difficulty in the game is relative to the time consumed by your fellow players. Albeit you, as a game developer, would want to create a niche game it still might be rational to be reasonable as of for what reasons you are seeking that nichedom. Realism ain't one.
Looks like a game that will succeed.
They are not aiming big, they are using ideas that they know will work instead of random features, and they are approaching it with realistic goals.
Compared to many MMOs out there, this looks like a game which knows where it is going and will not be relying on massive revenue to keep it going.
You are taking word realism too far. Its supposed be realism as in being immersed in that fantasy world not realism as in "huh a freakin' troll?" Take a step back. They are not trying to simulate life.
As for the design decisions, you're saying SV is saying "ah whatever we'll just call it realism so we dont have to design this a certain way." I dont see whats so decieving about their design decisions.
What Mats is speaking about is not really "realism" but more "credibility", Mats as the creative designer of the game tends to create a credible fantasy world, AND use it to explain design decision. Of course it can't be perfect, there would still be an UI, a mouse, a keyboard, and a screen. And of course they have to weight the "credibility" vs the "fun"
Take the example of the map. In MO there will be no map given at start, fact. From a fun point of view : This allow to create a new profession never seen before in a MMO : Mapmaker, and may be why not the ability to enchant the map so that it will give you your position on the map (speculation about map enchanting, but i believe a dev said something about it). Then your typical GPS find its explanation in the MO world.
So yeah we can say he use "credibility" (or "realism" whatever) to "mask" design decision, but it is beforehand made to create a new form of fun you'd not expected (for instance, if you get lost without a compass/map, you'll have to look for a hill/mountain to see your surroundings, or why not try to guess your position from the sun etc.
While I have often agreed with Bloodworth, this time I actually disagree. I think, mostly because he is jaded with recent ventures into this niche. I can't really blame him. However, the one thing that Talos and SV have is the same thing that led to CCP becoming great. A relatively honest set of talking heads, being the first. Second being that by recognizing that they need to aim small, and deal with that group, that if they did it the best they can, the game will grow over time. This is how EVE has turned from such a niche game, into what is considered a AAA title. Will MO be all it can potentially be from day one? Not on your life. Even the devs in the interview said such. However, it does have the mechanics in place to evolve into something extremely rewarding over the years, just like EVE. And is all that the devs are gunning for.
Point of everything? Those of us that have been watching it's development from day one, for the past few years, will recognize the real value in the game (as long as the official launch is relatively successful). Others that are just hearing about it, just won't understand it until they take it upon themselves to really pay attention to it's history.
That last part is what doomed Darkfall, by the way. It's history coupled with arrogant lies by Tasos is really what doomed DF in the early stages. Perhaps this is why SV is such a breath of fresh air to some of us.
I realise it's polite to not mention darkfall, but whats more important, being polite or being successful? There are problems with darkfall which this game needs to honestly confront. For example, how can anyone seriously play sandbox style without relying on an entire guild to baby sit them?
In my opinion sandbox and ffa pvp full loot are mutually exclusive. The only solution I know of is a world so big to dilute the majority of players that simply wish to pvp everyone thats weaker than them. That introduces problems of forming groups, content and travel. These are the sort of things I'd like to read the developer addressing.
His sole aim in a lot of the answers was to label anything that DIDN'T feature in Mortal Online as casual-friendly or as being too niche for a niche. Another of his aims was clearly to wave a hand of perceived superiority and dismal at any game that includes anything the resembles any of the steps forward that has been taken in the MMO genre. "Be gone, vile pest! Your ingenuity abhors my archaic mind." He could replace the entirety of his responses with a single sentence repeated over and over again - "Marketing bullshit goes here."
This guy has a level of arrogance reserved only for those individuals who's only over-powering trait is arrogance. I can think of another man with exactly the same quality, who managed to lie and cheat his way into total failure. I wonder if any of you can guess who he is?
I'd bet on Mortal Online tanking badly ;-)
It was stated that, at least ideally, the real huge difference between being able to gank (pvping with someone obviously weaker) should only take about a week or so. This being in the primary skillset. They are aiming for gear and secondary skills to not make so much of a difference that someone who, while still considered a noob to the game, can still beat someone who is not as used to this form of combat. It's kind of like EVE in that respect. If you know what you are doing, and the "vet" doesn't, you still stand a fighting chance.
On a side note though, I fully expect naked pvping until people get used to the mechanics enough to risk their real armours. This is just because of dealing with real people's insecurities.
These three things are, but the rest make sense. Since when do these things take away from reality? Oh, I'm so sorry I saved you a couple of unnecessary clicks by letting you auto loot. It obviously breaks the immersion greatly. Auto-loot distribution? I'm assuming he means rolling Need or Greed? How is that really a bad thing? And auction houses being unrealistic... maybe. If you want to be really specific about it, the idea of a globally linked auction system wasn't possible in Medieval times. But postal services and whatnot were around. I guess some city auction houses, that aren't linked to other cities, would be more realistic. Fine, why not do that then? Better than running through a town's market and being bombarded with player-store spam.
Other than this, I liked the interview though. Especially how skills will work and the idea of NPC Guilds.
You are taking word realism too far. Its supposed be realism as in being immersed in that fantasy world not realism as in "huh a freakin' troll?" Take a step back. They are not trying to simulate life.
As for the design decisions, you're saying SV is saying "ah whatever we'll just call it realism so we dont have to design this a certain way." I dont see whats so decieving about their design decisions.
It was moreso a reference to their other comments where immersion and realism weightened against features which would have admittedly been more casual-player-friendly. The realism is a double-edged blade, so to say, and I do fully understand your claims on credibility and immersive gameplay. It just cannot be the driving force of other game features that are clearly and admittedly alienating for the majority of players -- even according to their own testimony. This was what I refered by realism not being worth the nichedom when all it really is, is a subjective play with words. The game world can be as immersive and credible with pink fluffy bunnies and teddy bears marching yet they decided otherwise. And I think most of us can say that Oblivion was immersive enough eventhough it had also a chance for third person camera angle.
In sum, what I am trying to say is that their design choices are curious and alienating for no apparent reason other than touted realism, which, according to you and everyone else, is nothing but a lipservice to the notion of reality as perceived in, well, reality. Therefore, you cannot say elsewhere that something is realism (say, not being able to single-handedly kill a dragon) where you elsewhere deny that realism is not realism per se (saying that of course there are dragons, for it is no real realism). Tricky thing this realism is.
Explaining whole flagging system is very hard, as Matts already mentioned.
As a side note, freshbies won't be killable for first 20 ingame hours.
This will lower some sick cases like those so frequently called "gankfests". Get a life. Jumping on a newb may bring surprising effects, like being killed by own gankmate.
Nvm, as there is going to be plenty more better things to do than sitting in front of gate, waiting for a newb who is trying to sell squirrel tails, for sake of buying couple additional arrows.
How real is an AH in medieval mmorpg ?
You click on it, search a certain product, pick up the cheapest and there you go.
I prefer talking with the seller (mostly crafter), asking for a discount, or asking what he would able to do if I bring him some ingredients. Still there's full loot. After I loose everything in a skirmish, I'd appreciate a small help like some average gear being given by a friendly crafter(s) on tick. Well, if there's an auction house, why am I forced to loose time finding it ? I demand a button to buy gear whenever I want, and wherever I currently am.
You people lack the imagination to have fun playing a game focused on player to player interaction. Not player to environment (AI systems), on which are based most (99%?) of mmogs.
Those who say it's not the time for fpv medieval game.
Take a look back, and tell me, when will be the time to create a mmo game similar to oblivion, thief, gothic, dark messiah ?
All combat systems has been tested, and proven to work fine (close combat from DM - as well as some magic - mounted from M&B, etc). It's only about porting those "ideas" to online game, which unfortunately has some restrictions.
You don't have to go to the auction house. Look at WoW. Do people still offer their services in trade? Of course, because the AH prices are non-negotiable. The only thing you have slight control over is how much you want to bid, but the seller still sets the starting price. Talking with someone face-to-face to see what they're selling (especially crafters) can be done even with an AH system in the game. What the AH does is it prevents people spamming their wares 24/7. It provides a central place to buy goods. Why is that bad? Look at it as the Medieval market rather than a single building.
As for your second point... you're saying that if you lost your gear, you'd like friendly crafters to provide you with replacements if you don't have any? That's your choice. Or you could check out the AH and see what's there. More likely than not, in the AH you'd have to spend a lot more. If you took the time to seek out friendly crafters who'd make it for free or for cheap, then you're repaid with a lower cost. The best option would probably be to craft your own gear of course, but would you really like to sit there and yell, "Looking for ______ for my new leather armor! Please, does anyone have any? I just ran out of stock!" when you could take a quick trip to the "market" and buy it? The choice should be there. I'm not arguing for a globally linked world-wide AH system (that is a bit unrealistic), but no AH/market at all is to the detriment of the player.
MO is just a ordinary Swedish pen and paper RPG, as a MMO. I will play it next to Darkfall : )
I sure hope that isn't true.
Until it releases everyone can enjoy this video.
I like Swedish pen and paper RPGs. I still wont order it before they releases it however but it sounds interesting :)
People who are claiming that MO is so original need to brush up on their MMO history. The only thing this game has that wasn't done 20 years ago is first person view, and that's because the games that did this first were in text.
The reason people make "casual" or "easy" MMOs is because that's the kind most people want to play. Saying you are making a game that is "hardcore" or requires "skill" is mostly just aspirational marketing; it's designed to appeal to players who see themselves as "highly skilled". Really making a game that is "hardcore" or requires "skill" is stupid because most players, yes even those who see themselves as skilled, don't have very much skill at all.
It's the nature of a player skill system that the very few who really are highly skilled will totally dominate everyone else. Even if this tiny minority of highly skilled players were enough to sustain your game commercially (hint: it's not) they won't stick around for long without a healthy supply of wannabes to prey on.
'No real developer?' I'm interested to know what qualifies you to pass judgment on who is a 'real' developer and who is not. I guess the $150 I gave to StarVault for a couple of pre-orders wasn't real money, since they aren't real developers.
Similarly, I suppose the beta I've been in is a figment of my imagination.
Lol.
The only thing 'full of fail' in this thread is your (lack of) logic, oh and your grammar.
Next troll please.
Where in the interview was this game pitched as "hardcore"? Or is that how you perceived the interview?
I'm not understanding the vitriol from people that this game isn't even aimed at. Mats clearly stated that the game will appeal to a niche group of players. You don't like something about the game. OK. The game isn't for you then. Move on. Nothing is accomplished by getting your panties in a wad over it. I take that back. The only thing that is accomplished is you vented your nerd rage.
No targeting, first-person view, character collision and hit boxes also means tactical manoeuvres and training in groups becomes very important. You cannot have archers or mages randomly sending in projectiles or AOE's into the midst of battle as they risk hitting their own. Furthermore it's possible to really use the environment by taking advantage of line-of sight, choke points, terrain height etc.
That sounds like Darkfall and that's where I see a problem... When a player stood in front of another player to get you flagged was a big problem or when hunting with a group and accidentally hitting a group member. I hope they pull it off but this has been tried this way and failed because of those issues but we'll see. I would of rather them made a 2d UO style of game honestly.
You should take to heart what you spout at others in other threads:
I am a little aprehensive about the lack of a map.
It may be cool to actually get lost in an mmo, but when guilds / groups are trying to coordinate things it seems like it would be more of an annoyance. As far as I am concerned, if you are going to give people coordinates, then you might as well give them an arrow to indicate where they are.
Annoying people for the sake of 'realism' in a game seems pretty foolish in my mind. If it isn't fun then why bother.
I think the point is that the type of people likely to be annoyed by attempts at realism aren't the intended audience. He's pretty clear about that in the interview.
Why is guild/group coordination more important than the immersiveness of a solo explorer or a couple of hunters out there trying to make a living off of pelts? There are plenty of other games out there that don't give a shit about immersiveness, let us have this one.
I can definitely understand your concern. If your trying to group up with your guild to defend one of your comrads and you can't find them, that would be frustrating.
At the same time their are other 'real' ways around this. In real life if I am going to drive somewhere I look it up on mapquest because i don't have a GPS for my car. I look at the map, I take down directions, I go. I have seen maps 'created' for other games in the past. I'm sure some fan sites will have maps available for this game as well. The 'immersion' I guess will be that you actually have to study and memorize them to get to your destination. You simply won't have GPS on your journeys throughout MO
Hmmm let's see how many games made in last 5 years have decided on no minimap/FPV/no auto-loot etc.? I can't think of any. How many games made in the last 5 years have had those things? Pretty much all of them. I guess what I'm trying to point out here is that your post is actually saying to Mats "Be gone, vile pest Your ingenuity abhors my archaic mind." Of course ypu won't take the time to reverse your point of view just to see the irony, but I'm sure an unbiased person would see how you are casting down new ideas.
And to the person who thinks it will be annoying to have people spamming about sales, well with the lack of long-range/global chat it should be easy to get out of ear shot. They can follow you away from the city guards at their own risk. Anyway an auction house takes away from interpersonal reaction which is a major goal of MO, but most people can't imagine spending a good hour talking with merchants just to get some after death gear, and these same people are offended that it takes away from their time to have fun, because engaging in trade with merchants can't be fun and there's no way you could make a friend or two.
Well sorry to disagree, but without 3rd person view this game will tank badly. I don't know anyone that likes first person view, I know there are a few of you out there, but not enough to keep a MMO going. Add in that it is a pvp game, the limited vision provided by the 1st person view will be a killer.
Nothing wrong with fitting you game into a niche, but a tiny niche that can't support you?
Man I cant wait been waiting on MO for a long time. I love a truthfuly company and a grate game and working on the core only for the most part till it done and done right. MO will be my next baby like Shadowbane and Dark Age of Camelot befor it sadly i was unable to play UO till the game was going down hill.
What are they doing to prevent hacking?
He says he respects Eve, but one of the things that makes Eve well done and playable is that the consequences for high security are so high that most people don't bother to PVP there. I can understand the appeal of PvP everywhere, and the guy apparantly only wants a small niche market, but having some safe hunting spots, even if they are very unprofitable and resource poor, would at least give newbies a place where they can practice and get used to the controls.
Intentionally taking away features and make the game less convenient??? Full loot? I can see the griefers now. This will be a UO-repeat and sometimes people wonder why UO's popularity dropped once EQ came out.
And an MMO with almost little advancement? Does players have to click a rock for hours to advance "mining" skills?
LOL .. i guess i dont even have to try it out. Good luck of finding any players.
Sure. The question is how big an audience is left. Most people play games to GET AWAY from the real world. I am quite sure i don't want a repeat in my games.
The more I read about this game the better it gets. I don't expect it to do well with much of the mmorpg.com audience. All the more reason to be excited about Mortal Online's release :D
I think some people are failing to realize that you will be aiming, leading and generally fighting as if you were playing Counter Strike, Call of Duty, Half Life, or the myriad of other First Person Shooter (FPS) games out there. All of those games use first person views because they compliment the game play so well. Sure, you could choose a look similar to Resident Evil or Splinter Cell, but that would detract from the “realism” the developers are going after. They don’t want people switching into third person view so they can look around a corner, over a wall or on top of a roof. Since you can’t switch views in real life, the development team’s choice adds a degree of “realism” to the game and I, for one, applaud it.
If any of you have played Planet Side before you will know the pitfalls of a game that allows first and third person views. You could use the various views to see people over ridges, see mines and even see people who where cloaked around you (before that particular “exploit” was patched by the development team).
It is my opinion that FPS’ (this includes MMOFPS’ as well) with third person views detracts from the game play, not enhances it. And yes, this game sounds like a great deal of fun and I can see myself playing it. Paint my post with whichever biased you see most appropriate.
I think he should have instead addressed how he would deal with the problems of that model, and succeed where UO, EVE, and Darkfall fail. The features are less important that repeating history over again, in all the bad ways.
They've said they are making a niche title without many of the conveniences that most MMO players take for granted these days (map, global trade and communication etc) and with a twitch based combat system. I'd say that qualifies the game as hardcore.
I'm not sure if your second paragraph was aimed at me, but there's no vitriol or nerd rage here. This is a discussion forum and people are going to post their opinions, both positive and negative.
I can say for a fact that the devs do look at other games. I have a friend that works for Starvault, and he is a fan of World of Warcraft. He currently doesn't play (swamped with work), but we used to raid once a week. :)
I have preordered this already, this interview explains why. I love how the devs aren't boasting their game to be GREAT FOR ALL TYPES OF PLAYERS, but that they simply admit that casual players won't like it and that it's not at all like most mmos out there. And it has all the features I want, every answer in that interview makes me smile!
If you don't like it, just move along. There are hundreds of mmos out there with levels, minimaps, consentual pvp without consequences, classes and other things that make the game easy to play and risk free. Take your pick.
For the rest, see you in what is looking to be the best mmo ever released! :D
For the record, they don't claim the games features to be new, just different to what is standard today. I also see no arrogance in this interview as some claim, but quite the opposite. To admit that your game won't appeal to everyone because of it's features is humble, not arrogant.
The boxed version costs 68.69 EUR. Can anyone in Beta confirm that these features are in game and that the game will be released this winter?
Please don't ask others to break the NDA.
There are maps!
How about one of the guys in the guild become a chartographer (spelling?), and then make maps for everyone?
What Mats was saying is that the game doesn't PROVIDE the map for you.
You have to make them, using in game skills and exploration.
Nice interview as always!
I just want some screenies or movie made by them to tempt me. Won't count on it since they got work up their ears ^^
Keep the interviews coming!
I don't get the nerd rage with MO not having every feature that YOU want. It is what it is. Do you guys also get pissed that you can't shoot terrorists with a machine-gun in a flight sim?
If what MO strives to be is not to your liking don't play it. Just stop trying to belittle the devs and those of us who do like what they see.
The comparison to EVE was that it is a niche that started small and grew over time. At least the way I read it. Putting Darkfall in there would say that they are going to lie to everyone for 2 yrs, release an unfinished grind based game with crap graphics, crap map, pre-built player cities/housing with no customization etc etc... the list goes on. Darkfall was a pathetic excuse for a game and at best a well thought out scam. I'm glad the only reason DF comes up with MO devs is for its failures as there is absolutely no positive to be learned from DF, only what not to do.
Your reply is 100% failor and obvious you never have played darkfall.
But your a rabiit MO fan that hates Darkfall its your right to do so its only a shame you guys lie so much as Darkfall haters:(
Have fun in MO im positive that most will run back to Darkfall and rest quit:P
Your reply is 100% failor and obvious you never have played darkfall.
But your a rabiit MO fan that hates Darkfall its your right to do so its only a shame you guys lie so much as Darkfall haters:(
Have fun in MO im positive that most will run back to Darkfall and rest quit:P
having played both...I think you will be wrong on your final conclusion. For myself, I can say that AV's attitude steered me away from it as much as the game itself did.
Not at all, I find many of the features they propose interesting and very cool. I just didn't go into that in this post, so i must be a troll... The crafting system sounds very awesome, if done right.
This was my takeaway as well. Hence my comment about it getting the forum warrors frothing, right upto the point they find out they are not as hardcore as they thought they were.
I have a number of games under my belt, thanks. Also, that comment was unrelated. I posted my opinion of game design, its called criticism. Look it up. No where did I tell them what they needed to do defacto, end of story.
Couldnt agree more.....
What I got out of this interview was not that the devs are arrogant at all. They know what type of gamers their game is meant for and they do not want to hype it up to the non-target audience. Seems fair to me. If they do it that way then it will stem the tide of negativity somewhat when the game finally does come out. The trend lately seems to be overhyping a game and then when people play it they are disappointed. Disappointment breeds contempt and it spirals down from there.
On a derailing note:
A certain responder in this thread should know that pretentiousness tastes like chicken. MMMMmmmm
The only thing that is turning me off from this game right now is the no 3rd person view. This all 1st person view is just not my cup of tea and I do not see how it will effect PvP is you give the option for for a 3rd person aspect. Look at Mount & Blade. I think they got it right and that type of camera control is mre to my liking. To bad this game will not give us that kind of freedom.
If you start giving people the option to go 3rd person the option to use terrain to hide, set up ambushes and sneak up on people doesn't work.
Not only that but the current combat system wouldn't work at all with 3rd person so attacking, armour, crafting are just a few of the things that would have to get overhauled.
There are maps!
How about one of the guys in the guild become a chartographer (spelling?), and then make maps for everyone?
What Mats was saying is that the game doesn't PROVIDE the map for you.
You have to make them, using in game skills and exploration.
Yes but keep in mind the map sold or made for you may not be accurate and it does not show your position.
It is ignorant to think that 1st person view will make a difference and here is why. Do you know the games AC and DAoC? Do you know that there is no way to track the movement of other players beyond your characters vision yet people made add-ons(hacks) that allow you to track the movement of other players via packet sniffing proggies that allowed for marking other players on your mini-map.
Do you honestly think that this will not hapnen in MO? I for one do not believe it in a heart beat and think this kind of hack will be used rampanty in a game like this - making the ideal of 1st person view to be a tactical issue non-relavent..
It is ignorant to think that 1st person view will make a difference and here is why. Do you know the games AC and DAoC? Do you know that there is no way to track the movement of other players beyond your characters vision yet people made add-ons(hacks) that allow you to track the movement of other players via packet sniffing proggies that allowed for marking other players on your mini-map.
Do you honestly think that this will not hapnen in MO? I for one do not believe it in a heart beat and think this kind of hack will be used rampanty in a game like this - making the ideal of 1st person view to be a tactical issue non-relavent..
Hrmmm... designing a game around potential hacks seems a little extreme. I agree with there being only 1st person view. It does add an element of surprise and stealth becomes a player based skill. Throw in a little luck and you can be pretty sneaky. In theory anyway.
It doesn't matter how many games you have under your belt, you're not a game developer. You're a forum user and game player like most of us here who has a strong opinion about how a game should work (fit in with your idea of how a game should work). You spout said opinion like it's the gospel and that the REAL developer doesn't know what they're doing. That's laughable, yet you seem to take it very seriously.
Sure. The question is how big an audience is left. Most people play games to GET AWAY from the real world. I am quite sure i don't want a repeat in my games.
Unless your real world includes magic spells and hacking people apart with sharp weapons, I'm pretty sure MO isn't going to resemble your day to day life.
I get it though, short attention span, lack of imagination, like the majority of mmo players nowadays.
And that's ok, there are games enough for everyone. This one happens to be for people that want a world first and a game second.
I disagree that it wasn't pitched as hardcore, but as it's hardly a matter of objective fact there's not much point arguing about it. I agree that it is certainly "old school" though, and many of the concepts go much further back than UO all the way to text MUDs. My main concern for the game is that while many of the concepts sound appealing to certain gamers, there is not going to be a broad enough appeal to sustain the game in the long term.
I expect that MO will go one of two ways some time after release; either it will fold, or the gameplay will be diluted (made less hardcore or less challenging, whatever you want to call it) in order to attract a broader cross section of players. As I said in an earlier post, if you have a game system that relies too heavily on player skill it becomes very hard for the majority of players to compete. The FFA PvP and full loot isn't so much of a problem as the combat system. Shadowbane for example was successful because the combat system was accessible enough that even if you sucked you could still mash buttons on called targets and feel like you were having an impact. In a true skill based system the majority of players will get owned by the minority, again and again and levelling up or getting better gear isn't going to help them.
On a related note I think it's quite telling that the guys behind Sparkplay Media who ran successful hardcore/old school sandbox games with complex skill based PvP, politics, crafting etc. decided to do a Furry cartoon MMO instead of something they were more familiar with.
Unless your real world includes magic spells and hacking people apart with sharp weapons, I'm pretty sure MO isn't going to resemble your day to day life.
I get it though, short attention span, lack of imagination, like the majority of mmo players nowadays.
And that's ok, there are games enough for everyone. This one happens to be for people that want a world first and a game second.
iv been playin mmos for a number of years know tho i dont consider myself that knowledge (am only 16
)
i still think that most people these days wanted to held by the hand and told to do things
and i dont see why thats apealing at all and if it wasnt for the fact that matt himslef says that this game is not for everyone,
beacause its different and only a select few will like this game. I personally dont see what the problem with
the devs, they seem honest unlike darkfall( i dont hate it just felt hurt when they lied to me about everything they had to offer)
and really if you look at the forums of mortla online, you will realise that the devs actually listen to what they comunity wants.
unlike most them-park mmos, where the comunity screams for something and the devs just ignore it,
This generation off mmorpg players seem to have no sense of direction, i mean why do you need a map on the top
right corner all the time, it makes the game less realistic and boring, i want go exploring maybe get lost, if i cant read the map my fault. I i dont hate anygame i mean yeah i get annoyed by liers and companys who make fake promesis to me.
Darkfall didnt bothered me a lot since it promised so much( maybe am just a sucker ey) to the point were i belived them,
i mean its not like i expected everything at the bigining but the constant gankfest
just put off new players, i relaise that the new patches have made it better. (so DF fans calm down)
Hopeing starvault has what it takes
You might be right about it being too limited in its scope, but that remains to be seen. I would hope that SV is smart enough to make adjustments as needed to the game in order to keep it bankable. The MMO crowd is pretty unforgiving if a game has a crappy launch though. AoC and VG are great examples.
The combat system might be a problem, but I'm excited about it because it's different from your usual MMO these days. I may end up hating it, but I won't know for sure until I get to try it out. It may be that the technology isn't there yet to make this kind of 1st person combat system truly enjoyable for a lot of people. It could be completely unintuitive using a mouse to block and attack specific areas. I don't know, but I'm eager to find out.
Different for the sake of different. And because most of those systems are in place to help with the real fact you a person looking at a computer screen and not a real person in a world with all your senses at your disposal. Topped off with the fact that anonymity + internet + avatar = assholes.
Navigation of the interface should never be part of your game challenge equation, content is the real gauge, not GUI or lack of. a good GUI is seamless and second nature to the user and mostly goes unnoticed.
They have essentially ignored the fun (and all innovations to that end), and imbued the game with some notion that reality and realistic is fun. Its not, because you are not really there. Its just leads to frustration and grieving.
Game play/fun > Reality. There is simply no way to get around your playing a computer game, and the real limitations it imposes.
The entire premise that those systems were developed for casuals is false. They were developed and added for everyone. The wording also sounds like they have a disdain for casual players, ignoring the vast majority in this way is not good design, it adhering to a forum warriors misplaced credo and is missing the point of any level of competency in game design. AKA, this is an armchair developer speaking, not someone in a place of professional knowledge that is looking at the title as a product and making a game that people will enjoy.
You know where to put your troll comment.
Owned.... It's sad that Mrbloodworth had to explain this to you.
It sure was a damn fine paragraph.
Hi al mortal online is very good game but i sell my box for pay eve online
Actually, I am. One would have gotten that with my wording. It is also, irrelevant to the topic or my original point, ill leave the reader to form who has the better logic here ,Most of your post is simply semantics and more personal attacking on your end. One would think, becouse everything went right over your head. Its OK to lash out sometimes I suppose.
ADD version: I found his comments and method of describing the game to be ostracizing and condemning to anyone reading it. This tactic has never worked, and only servers to get forum users frothing about the promised land. It never makes for a good game, it simply makes for a horrible player base that will soon realize they are not as hardcore as they thought they were.
Nothing you said went over my head. The laughable part is you take it so seriously, yet it is just another forum user/game player's opinion in a sea of opinions, no matter how important or logical you think it is. You can use as many or as few words as you want. It's still just another opinion that carries no more weight or is no more "right" than any other's.
What I'm driving at is that your bitterness, arrogance and condescension towards the developer and "hardcore" players in general is tiresome and frankly pointless. The only thing it accomplishes is making you look pompous. You have tons of games to choose from that don't cater to the "hardcore". This is one of the very few that has specifically stated it is. You got your panties in a wad because you perceived this interview as "condemning" and "ostracizing". You're more than welcome to post that opinion, but don't be condescending about it.
Also, you keep mentioning that my posts are just personal attacks. Many of your posts in this thread have been or have included attacks/insults on others here or the developer:
"AKA, this is an armchair developer speaking, not someone in a place of professional knowledge that is looking at the title as a product and making a game that people will enjoy." - stating the developer is ignorant
"The rest of your post is part assumptions to my meaning, and lack of comprehension." - insinuating the forum user is dumb
"Say it again, at some point, you will believe it if you say it enough." - stating that the forum user's opinion is not true
"Your just as bad with the assumptions and lack of comprehension as the other guy." - again, stating the forum user is dumb
"I'm sure it will get the people who think they are hardcore frothing however. Right up to the point they find out they are really not really "hardcore"." - showing clear disdain and disrespect for players you deem "hardcore"
"Or, you could read what I type, and not insert your own assumptions, then attack me on the basis of those assumptions."; "But you knew this." - once again, insinuating the other forum user is dumb
"No real developer would say such things, they may think it, but they will do the best they can not to say it in public. Its amateur at best, and borne of forums." - once again, attacking the developer... as a forum user
"its called criticism. Look it up." - insinuating the forum user is dumb
"One would have gotten that with my wording." - insinuating the forum user is dumb
"One would think, becouse everything went right over your head. Its OK to lash out sometimes I suppose." - insinuating the forum user is dumb; showing clear superiority complex
That's just in this thread! To write other responses off as "drivel" or simply attacks makes you look like a gigantic hypocrite.
Please don't ask others to break the NDA.
Please next time ask serious questions when you review an mmo developer who has not even proved that his product meets the requirements to be hosted here. (In fact you had to change the rules in order to host Mortal Online in mmorpg.com.)
Since these people ask for a full price in order to allow us to play a game in Beta stage you should take some time to research and help us decide if this is a hoax or something that is worhty of investing our money.
Of course Journalism is much harder than advertising a product and unfortunately you prefer to create news from promising features than using facts.
Please next time ask serious questions when you review an mmo developer who has not even proved that his product meets the requirements to be hosted here. (In fact you had to change the rules in order to host Mortal Online in mmorpg.com.)
Since these people ask for a full price in order to allow us to play a game in Beta stage you should take some time to research and help us decide if this is a hoax or something that is worhty of investing our money.
Of course Journalism is much harder than advertising a product and unfortunately you prefer to create news from promising features than using facts.
First point I will make is that you are wrong about this site changing its rules to get a MO forum up and running. If you had been around and paying attention to this game in the months running up to it being featured here, you will know that they did not change the rules. In fact, it caused a lot of upset discourses in those months as a result of it taking so long to be listed.
Secondly, yes- they are asking folks to pay to beta test their game. At least they are honest in saying that, instead of "launching" and have people beta test, as seems to be a recent trend. Which would you rather have?
Lastly, while sometimes the questions from journalists on this site (and many others) may leave a lot to be desired, do remember the sheer VOLUME of games they cover. Trying to ask every question that every reader wants answered, will lead to extremely long interviews. The developers, the writers, and mostly the readers simply don't have that kind of time. If your questions weren't answered in THIS interview, check other websites to see if perhaps THEY asked it. If not, there are always the official forums.
Anyone know what the death penalty is? Any consequenses at all for your actions, either by player or design? In df due to no consequenses, it will always end up with 2 massive guilds/alliances. Not sure why they just didnt start with 2 factions. How will this game differ?
Death penalty means all your stuff gets taken away, the game is FFA PvP game meaning you get killed, everything on you can be looted. Player actions will be the consequence for your own actions, such as guilds with the purpose of bounty-hunting criminals to take their money and loot, which would be completely legal.
Plus, the mechanics of the game punish a criminal with a slight stat loss once you are dead. The game also makes criminals red, and they are unable to talk to merchants. In cities, if a player actually calls the guards, then the guards will attack the red. Unless the guards see the player.
They didn't want to deadlock players into a situation, and they want them to actually change/interact with the environment, hence no factions. Massive guilds can fall apart and crumble but a game-made faction cannot. There will be more than two guilds and alliances anyway because there are also criminal guilds, non-criminal guilds that duke it out all the time.
In the game you will eventually be able to take over territory once the game is actually released, but the reason they didn't include at release was because they don't want the game to be only a massive gankfest, they want it to be like Ultima Online. They also don't have enough money to include sieging, which was a feature they weren't going to include at release anyway. They did confirm that if the game is out long enough that they would have that feature in-game.
Think of the game like EVE-Online but with RPG styled characters.
By the way, in addition to what lethys says when you die your spirit is released from your corpse (so you are in ghost form at the place you die) and you must find a npc priest or a player that can revive you, so the penalty for all deaths is heavier (in terms of time sink) than in darkfall where you simply respawn at the nearest bindstone.
It's not a matter of money it's a matter of time, if they want to release the game one day they have to define priorities, also features like sieging can be added later, when the core features are rock solid. For instance i think in darkfall sieging is fine, but the combat, the crafting and the skill system are half-assed and require much work to be interesting but it's more complicated to change the core feature like combat and skills so i don't expect them to change radically in the coming months.
In MO if the combat, skills and crafting is nicely done (in addition to the other features planned for launch), then the game will be enjoyable even though sieging is not in, and they will be able to add the sieging after launch in an upgrade
Well the death penalty is rather tame in my opinion. But I havent played it so I dont know how it will work out. Skill loss is a little better. Is there a way once you are red to go back to normal? Kill your alt or your buddies, then head back to town or something? Need some real world penalties to make it believable. Or else the alignment is a waste. It's not that I want it easier..I want it harder. I just view hardcore and casual as consequences for actions. Sounds pretty casual so far. I dont want dev restricting actions at all, but i can make someone a ghost in wow. And no one wears gear they dont want to lose..so whose gonna bother with revenge if all they did to ya was waste your time? And all you can do back is waste theirs.
What about penalties for grouping, guilding, assisting, trading ect... with a red player? If none then again it makes the consequenses even less important.
Just wanna know if this is a worldy game or another casual pvp game thats all. Hard to tell with the info given or tell what exactly they're selling.
Any info would be appreciated.
Well there is no alignement, if you want to be blue again you must wait the end the flag timer (for instance each time you kill someone it add 20 hours (playing time) one your murder timer)
Well it's rather complex so i prefer linking you the source so that you can understand fully (read the pdf file). Some info might be outdated though
http://www.mortalonline.com/combat/flagging
For the spirit-type respawn, it means the player have to find someone (player with the adequate skill or npc) that actually want to resurrect him. If you are red, it won't be easy i guess ...
By the way most situation that could happen related to flagging are planned by the system like :
trespassing a restricted zone will flag you grey for the owners of the zone (like a house, a city, w/e) and only them
the loot of someone has also a flag, meaning if you loot a blue player even if you didnt kill him, you'll go grey. Or if you steal a mob's loot of someone you'll go grey.
casting of "good" spells on criminals makes you a criminal
there will be also different level of security for guarded zones
etc etc.
Well there is no alignement, if you want to be blue again you must wait the end the flag timer (for instance each time you kill someone it add 20 hours (playing time) one your murder timer)
Well it's rather complex so i prefer linking you the source so that you can understand fully (read the pdf file). Some info might be outdated though
http://www.mortalonline.com/combat/flagging
For the spirit-type respawn, it means the player have to find someone (player with the adequate skill or npc) that actually want to resurrect him. If you are red, it won't be easy i guess ...
By the way most situation that could happen related to flagging are planned by the system like :
trespassing a restricted zone will flag you grey for the owners of the zone (like a house, a city, w/e) and only them
the loot of someone has also a flag, meaning if you loot a blue player even if you didnt kill him, you'll go grey. Or if you steal a mob's loot of someone you'll go grey.
casting of "good" spells on criminals makes you a criminal
there will be also different level of security for guarded zones
etc etc.
Thanks for taking the time to answer, will check out the info.
Thanks for taking the time to answer, will check out the info.
I can save you the trouble, the whole idea is a far fetched pen and paper theory. None of it is actually finished or being tested. The death penalty is offset entirely by ease of replacement gear and skill gain. So there is really no more penalty for dying in MO than in a game like WoW which just makes you pay to fix your gear. It's just a different method to achieve the same ends.
Mats is the spiritual succesor of Brad McQuaid except Mats was never successful and doesn't have Smedly holding his hand.
I would like their developers/designers to answer some of the harder questions.
Having an open ended sandbox game is all well and good but you cannot pull it off successfully until you are able to deal with the multitude of meta/power gamers that will flood in at launch and do anything they can to get an edge. And once they have an edge they will grief everyone they can.
If I feel other players got an unfair advantage and there is no action taken against them it ruins the game for me. Definitely ruined Darkfall for me and EvE to a certain extent when developers were caught cheating.
There are also questions about accountability. In EvE you can have your main account and quite easily create a 2nd character or use a 2nd account to run a scammer. After your scammer pulls off a few scams you just delete the character and create a new one as there is no time invested into the character itself. The effect is that if you can keep your mouth shut the scamming character is completely free from any accountability ever. There is no way for a victim to ever get justice.
I would also like to know about the size of the world. You can cross the entire Darkfall map in a few hours, same with EvE. I think the "smallness" of these worlds miss out on a whole level of logistics.
"in turn meaning lowering the difficulty of everything from combat, PvP and crafting, and introduce a whole dimension of solo-play features such as quests and story progression, not to mention easy-to-understand concepts like levels and classes. And that's the opposite of our game."
With such a narrow-minded attitude as this, together with an expectation of being nothing more than a 'niche' game (read:limited takeup) - this game has FAILURE written all over it - NEXT!!!!
Of course it has. WOW is ---------------->
Go play now.
Oh i better keep my head together ....
I ve been around quite a bit and i want the devs o MO to know that they better deliver what they say they are developing ,
ITS A FANTASTIC CONCEPT CLOTHED WITH AWESOME MATERIAL .
You better not dissapoint us guys , you are growing a large base of fans .
You might be a small independent company but You sure are the most promising one this moment .
(And yes i ve seen most of the other big ones and their products. )
KEEP YOUR ACT TOGETHER , YOUR MOUTH BALANCED ,YOUR MIND IN FLAMES AND WORK LIKE ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE AND IS AFTER YOUR ARSE!
Because you will disapoint (said for the second time ) a Lot of people if ....
Sorry for the nostradamian negativity but ive learned to keep a small basket as they say in my country..
Heart felt fantasy greetings
From reading this I've learned two things.
One: I am interested in MO now, have bookmarked their website and will be keeping tabs on the progress of the game. It sounds like a combination of several typres of games I like; UO, AC (1), Shadowbane, and DAoC.
(Btw) The first person viewpoint has been implemented in games like Roma Victor in the MMO world, definitely a small niche.
Two: Their are a lot of boobs that troll here, except for a certain un-named person that is obviously in love with the sound of his own voice.
He is a pretentious and condescending boob. I truly feel sorry for him.
--S.
Great interview ! Thanks Mats.