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Star Wars: The Old Republic : A Hint at Player Housing?
Posted Aug 26, 2009 by Michael Bitton
SWTOR-Station.com have a short preview of Star Wars: The Old Republic (in German) describing some of the things they heard at Star Wars: The Old Republic demo at GamesCom. One bit that stood out in particular was the mention of player housing, something I don't think any of us were expecting to be included in Star Wars: The Old Republic.
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As translated over at the Darth Hater blog:
And this article will also contain the following information we heard at the demo cinema the last day. As the typical MMO features of the game were enumerated not only PvP, auction houses and crafting were mentioned, but also housing was part of this list. You can imagine that we stared at each other in disbelief! Nothing has been confirmed yet, but it’s a good hint at the fact that conventions make you tired and even BioWare employees let something slip out then.
Could we really see player housing in Star Wars: The Old Republic? I don't see why not. After all, with as ambitious (and expensive) as the project seems to be, why not go for broke? More features? Yes, please!
Via Darth Hater.
That would be awesome. this game keeps getting better
If Bioware does manage to pull this off on top of everything else, I will be in heaven. I'm not expecting anything like what SWG had (oh how I loved the fish tanks), but it'd still be very nice to have a place to make your own.
IF this is true and the housing isn't instanced (which is not to say it can't be restricted to certain areas).
IF the crafting in the game is something I can deal with.
Then I'll give it a try.
Player housing and crafting were my two sticking points to playing a SW setting game. If they aren't there in a manner I like, well, no play for me. Either way I'm good.
This game just gets better and better
eh, no windows?
it would be nice if they offered the opportunity to drop stuff in them as in swg: crafting stations, furniture, weapons etc.
Housing and crafting are the main reasons you would play a Star Wars MMO? Wow. Just wow.
The same rampant speculation about an off-handed comment is occuring on the official boards. I'll say the same thing here that I said there.
It never ceases to amaze me the lengths to which people will go to jump to conclusions.
I hope to gawd there isn't some awfully bloated, environment choking free for all housing allowed in TOR. Please for the love of all that is good and decent in the world, BioWare do not allow players to clog every square inch of every server with ghetto housing.
Hmm, just noticed that. More than likely means instanced. Ah well...
Yeah, they are. Is there a problem with that? Wait, nevermind, if you have a problem with that keep it to yourself. Your judgment of why I like to play doesn't really interest me.
Hmm, just noticed that. More than likely means instanced. Ah well...
maybe not....there were no windows in SWG houses either.
I'm almost beginning to hope that there's more to this game than meets the eye.
I'm really hoping that this game will be all that it's cracked up to be, but I can't get rid of this feeling of tiny dread that it's all smoke and mirrors and will turn out as boring and repetitve as the rest of the MMORPGs that have come out recently.
I had my doubts and then I saw the trailer for the game with one of the coolest Star Wars action sequences ever. I started to give in to the hype, but still remained on the side-lines.
Then I saw the animations for the classes that have been revealed so far. I got even more excited and became a lurking fan... waiting to see what would happen.
I saw the 4 part gameplay vid with like 20 mins of footage. I was floored. I felt relieved because I thought to myself that someone finally got it right. The gameplay looks fun, the animations are cool, the dialogue seemed very well done and even had good voice acting.
The gameplay footage left me with a sense that the game kind of played like Mass Effect in the Star Wars Universe.
Now, hopefully, they are adding player housing.
I've been on the fence about the whole MMORPG genre for awhile now and was about ready to just turn my back on the whole genre, but now I'm so excited my head asplode.
I can't wait for this game. I really hope that it's all it's cracked up to be.
I would absolutely love some player housing. It's tough to pull me away from FFXIV the more I see though. I'm worried about the limited scope of grouping in SW:TOR but hopefully time and more information will allow me to make a more justified decision.
maybe not....there were no windows in SWG houses either.
I'm almost beginning to hope that there's more to this game than meets the eye.
Oh, wait, yeah. Man, it's been a long while since I've played SWG. Had FE on the brain in being able to look out windows from buildings and see what's actually out there.
Well, it's back to waiting on how they define "non-heroic interfering" crafting, lol.
Yeah, they are. Is there a problem with that? Wait, nevermind, if you have a problem with that keep it to yourself. Your judgment of why I like to play doesn't really interest me.
Make me.
It is a Star Wars game, made by BioWare with over a thousand hours of voice acting and eight entirely unique story lines, resulting in essentially eight unique games. Did I mention that the stories were written by BioWare? Hundreds of voice actors recording content in three seperate contries.
And you'll play for crafting and ghetto free-for-all housing?
AHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHhAHAHhhahahahah!
Dude, you just made my day.
maybe not....there were no windows in SWG houses either.
I'm almost beginning to hope that there's more to this game than meets the eye.
i think a mid-term solution to please both groups of people who want non-instancing to promote socialisation and those who want instancing to prevent urban pollution would be to instance entire cities, which everyone could access.
Make me.
It is a Star Wars game, made by BioWare with over a thousand hours of voice acting and eight entirely unique story lines, resulting in essentially eight unique games. Did I mention that the stories were written by BioWare? Hundreds of voice actors recording content in three seperate contries.
And you'll play for crafting and ghetto free-for-all housing?
AHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHhAHAHhhahahahah!
Dude, you just made my day.
these are really nice features, but different players have different styles.
whilst i am sure i will very much enjoy the story lines and dialogue, after completing two or three on a given day i will want something else to do: something i have complete control over.
i do not see how variety is a negative thing.
double post. *delete*
The negative thing is the slop that "real" world, free-for-all housing has on the astestics of the carefully designed environments. I have yet to see housing implemented in a non-instanced fashion that doesn't detract from the experience of playing the game in some way.
I'm not being negative just because I like to bark at other people's ideas. But there are a myriad of reasons to play a BioWare game that have nothing to do with slopping up their envornments until every square inch is covered with somebody's else's personal expression.
There is no good reason why housing cannot be instanced and still give you the freedom of expression and control that you want.
Make me.
It is a Star Wars game, made by BioWare with over a thousand hours of voice acting and eight entirely unique story lines, resulting in essentially eight unique games. Did I mention that the stories were written by BioWare? Hundreds of voice actors recording content in three seperate contries.
And you'll play for crafting and ghetto free-for-all housing?
AHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHhAHAHhhahahahah!
Dude, you just made my day.
Yeah, I don't really care about all that other stuff. Thousands of hours of voice acting. Woohoo. Sounds like someone has never heard an actor talk before in a game. As far as the unique story lines, yeah, again, I couldn't care less. I don't play MMOs to be lead by the nose, even if I have the option of making a few choices here and there. Oh, and I'm glad you just noticed Bioware's writing the stories. I plan on buying Dragon Age specifically for that reason! And look maw, no monthly fee!
And one other point to correct your in-ability to read and comprehend. As I mentioned in other posts, I'd like a restricted area housing system. So you can drop the "ghetto free-for-all housing yammer.
This game sounds better and better. I cant wait for it to come out!
If housing could only be in restricted areas as you suggest, then what would be the difference of having it in an instance?
Voice acting completely changes the feeling of a game. If you don't believe me, then go and play Jade Empire and follow it up by playing Mass Effect. The difference? Your character has a voice in one to respond to the NPCs and doesn't have a voice in the other. The difference in the flow of the game is quite noticiable.
I actually enjoy listening to good voice acting, as opposed to reading Zork style quest dialog test. I've done that for 30 years. I've had enough of reading text. This is the age of the interwebz.
Text boxes and reading detracts from my gaming experience. Just like 95% of the ugly ass housing "real worlders" impose on everybody.
The only difference between instances and "restricted areas" is in your mind.
Make me.
It is a Star Wars game, made by BioWare with over a thousand hours of voice acting and eight entirely unique story lines, resulting in essentially eight unique games. Did I mention that the stories were written by BioWare? Hundreds of voice actors recording content in three seperate contries.
And you'll play for crafting and ghetto free-for-all housing?
AHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHhAHAHhhahahahah!
Dude, you just made my day.
Why don't you try adding something useful to the conversation besides harassing someone over why they would like to play the game. And housing doesn't always translate to FFA housing. There should be a proper way to add it to the game and the more choices available in a game the better, whether you are interested in them or not. I for one am more interested in the combat and story but without other things to set it apart from other games ... its just another run of the mill game.
* Oh snap, you actually did ... good job . :p
If housing could only be in restricted areas as you suggest, then what would be the difference of having it in an instance?
Voice action completely changes the feeling of a game. I actually enjoy listening to good voice acting, as opposed to reading Zork style quest dialog test. That detracts from my gaming experience. Just like 95% of the ugly ass housing "real worlders" impose on everybody.
The only difference between instances and "restricted areas" is in your mind.
Great, I'm glad you like to listen to someone read for you. It probably works out best that way.
Don't let the heat of debate cloud your mind. Heh. Instancing and restricted areas on the overland world are two different things. You can be inside your house and look out and see happenings in the real world if your house is in a restricted location. There are no loading screens. With instances, you're taken away from the "real world" via a loading screen. Your house, in an instance, is "supposed" to be in X location of the real world, but you can't look out and see what is actually happening there.
I just prefer less loading screens and more seamless fluidity in the realization of the game world. You are more than welcome to like loading screens. Your perogative.
This is a long post. All you tl;dr morons can move along to the next post. (or learn to read faster)
There are several problems usually associated with instanced housing in Theme Park games which make them pretty useless for anything other than storage. I'm going to use SWG as an example for this, but that DOES NOT mean I expect this game to be SWG2. I'm using it for contrast only.
1) Instanced housing takes the homes away from the persistent part of the world, and very few people bother going to them as a result. In SWG the missions and quests took you through all kinds of player created cities, shops and homes which you could explore. Also see number 3 on this list.
2) Theme park games do not make 3d representation of most games items that you can use to decorate your home with. In sandbox games like SWG, you could drop almost ANYTHING you had in your inventory, and use it to create a unique space. SWG literally had 3D models for nearly EVERY item in the game, including crafting materials and crafting sub-components. Even food items could be dropped and arranged on a table top to look like a meal was being served. These food items were the same consumables you used for buffs and heals. You name it, you could drop it and decorate with it. Hell, there was an entire crafting line that let you make everything from furniture to plants and candles for home decorating.
3) Due to the Auction House systems in Theme Parks, people usually cannot set up a shop in their homes so they can sell their crafted and looted items. They cannot set up vendors. This also limits traffic to the housing areas.
4) Decoration is very limited. You do not have full freedom to place things however you wish and instead have have certain "zones" in your house that are made for specific items (rugs, paint, wall space, small, med, large furniture, etc). It's very restricting and repetitive and create a large yawn factor very quickly after the initial novelty wears off. SWG allowed you to move the items in any direction, and put them together if you wanted to make a new item.
5) You cannot set up crafting "stations" and craft in your home. This takes away another huge motivator to spend time and effort setting it up or even visiting it. When I wanted to craft in SWG I would usually head to my pad, and I would have one of the rooms set up as a crafting area complete with crafting stations and bags full of crafting materials I had purchased or harvested. Combined with a "store front" in one of your other rooms, it really felt like having a business.
Please do not bring up the mess that persistent world housing made in SWG. Those were design flaws that can be addressed in development. SOE learned a lot about what not to do with persistent player housing, and if they did it again, I'm sure it would be much better.
Lotro is probably the main AAA theme park with player housing currently. Really they are a novelty that most people ignore because they are out of the way and very limited as stated above. As much as I am a fan of player housing, I got bored with mine in Lotro before I even started, and ended up using the house just for the storage it allowed. Even that became a pain because I hated heading clear out to the instanced area just to get things. There wasn't much motivation to do anything else with it. After a while I let the rent lapse and just walked away from it.
I spent countless DAYS setting up my homes and shops in SWG. Game developers forget that this is a form of game play, and many, many people enjoy it. In fact, I would say that my homes and the time I put into them were one of the things that kept me coming back to the game for three years, not to mention being able to visit other people's spaces.
Since you had such freedom to drop items and design the homes, people would open them up to the public as temples, retreats, museums, libraries and any other kind of structure you can imagine. I once decorated and opened up a "Hunting Lodge" out in the game world, and I regularly received IM's and in game emails from people telling me how cool it was, and how they spent their time using it. I'm sure many other SWG players can relate to this. Some of the shops and malls I visited in that game blew me away. Decorating these spaces was an art form all it's own, and SWG gave you the tools you needed.
Any shallow theme park housing system will end up being a wasted effort unless they are going to really invest some time into making our homes "sandbox" like. Hell, this might even be enough for me to try SWTOR.
Excellent read and post MT.
I can tell you right now that the SWG-style player housing will not happen in this game...
If that is what you are hoping for, don't bother.
That basically ends any argument regarding this issue. And I have spent hours just going door to door checking out players who left their houses/shops open for display. Just the fact that I could take an armor set and display it like a statue in my house was cool. It comes down to spending time preparing something or just throwing things together last minute and calling it a "feature". Either put housing in that is unique or serves a purpose or dont put it in at all.
Excellent read and post MT.
Thank you, sir. You know, just re-reading my own post, I still to this day stand in awe of what you could do in SWG. Each system in that game was so complex compared to anything we have now that I can't believe it released 6 years ago. That entire wall of text I posted only scratched the surface of how people used player housing in that game. You simply cannot accurately describe the freedom and flexibility all those sandbox systems gave us without literally writing a BOOK on the subject. Think about how deep the resource aspect alone of crafting was in that game. It was an entire game play line.
People wonder why us vets miss SWG so much because they have no clue what you could do in there. I was never bored and I could go weeks at a time in the game completely avoiding PvE and PvP by playing other aspects of SWG game play. Try doing that in today's games.
Thank you, sir. You know, just re-reading my own post, I still to this day stand in awe of what you could do in SWG. Each system in that game was so complex compared to anything we have now that I can't believe it released 6 years ago. That entire wall of text I posted only scratched the surface of how people used player housing in that game. You simply cannot accurately describe the freedom and flexibility all those sandbox systems gave us without literally writing a BOOK on the subject. Think about how deep the resource aspect alone of crafting was in that game. It was an entire game play line.
People wonder why us vets miss SWG so much because they have no clue what you could do in there. I was never bored and I could go weeks at a time in the game completely avoiding PvE and PeP by playing other aspects of SWG game play. Try doing that in today's games.
I agree completely. It's a shame really, the non-combat features of SWG was what made it so great and I've always wondered why no other developer wanted to steal the good bits from SWG and transfer it to their own game. Sandbox ftw.
I have zero hope for a SWG-style player housing system in this game, and that's the whole point of my post. Anything less than what I described is just another "bullet point" feature that sounds good in marketing materials and on the game's box, but at the end of the day, it will barely be used. Lotro is a perfect example. Ask the people in that game what they think of the instanced housing system. Most of them will tell you they don't even use it because there is no point. It's not that player housing as a concept is pointless, but that the design is simply boring.
Excellent post Mindtrigger.
I agree with both sides of the argument. All of the voice acting and content that Bioware is working on will make the game a joy to play versus the typical "go kill 10 boar" grind. On the other hand player housing and detailed crafting is a very cool feature in an MMO. Maybe guys can agree that this game looks to already be very promising.
I have zero hope for a SWG-style player housing system in this game, and that's the whole point of my post. Anything less than what I described is just another "bullet point" feature that sounds good in marketing materials and on the game's box, but at the end of the day, it will barely be used. Lotro is a perfect example. Ask the people in that game what they think of the instanced housing system. Most of them will tell you they don't even use it because there is no point. It's not that player housing as a concept is pointless, but that the design is simply boring.
I agree instanced housing sucks in a lot of ways. I used to like finding random houses in SWG and going in to check out how they decorated them. I actually made my first friend in SWG when I was a week old noob running across Tat and I ran into her shop/house to get away from some moisture thieves xD.
In EQ2 it was a lot harder to show off your house, or find houses to check out, they did do some really cool stuff carpentry wise though. I can deal with instanced houses and apartments, but it's not preferable. I can see both sides of the argument though, the lag caused by crap loads of houses in the game world, the empty player cities, the empty pointless NPC cities, urban sprawl as some call it. There must be a compromise, maybe allowing only certain planets to built on and open with it's own benefits, as well as player apartments in npc cities with their own set of benefits.
I guess all we can do is wait and see if and how it's implemented in SWTOR. If they are gonna do it I imagine it’s going to serve a purpose and not be a complete suck fest for everyone. I really hope they do and I look forward to seeing player decorated houses as player screen shot of the week.
EQ2 has instanced housing. You can put crafting stations in there, open it up to guests, have your storefront in them, craft all sorts of furniture for it and put it wherever you want. You can even make a rug, elevate it into the air, and create a virtual second story (if your house doesn't have one).
I like the ability to have an apartment in the city, or a house in a high class area of said city. I actually managed to get a house inside the magic guild. And all you had to do to visit other homes was click on a door and choose what home you wanted to look at. I used to do it all the time with the huge guild halls.
I guess I don't understand why people are so against instanced housing. What am I missing?
So you think being told to "go kill 10 boars" is significantly different from reading "go kill 10 boars"?
Hate to say it but all the flash voice animations in the world won't make the content any less repetitive or linear.
The other thing that hasn't been touched on was the amazing SWG player economy. Although at times it was frustrating to wait on Tattione for players to level to Master Weaponsmith or Armorsmith (I was stuck on Tatt for like a month lol) it made for a great community. I still remember our first Master Weaponsmith his name was Origins and he used to have 20+ people outside his house waiting for him to fill his vendors up. It also made most players act well-mannered and overall just nice to one another, because you never knew if you were gonna need him or one of his friends to make you something.
The crafting was amazing. I mean the fact that there was 60+ types of resources with something like 8-10 different stats on each of them rotating on a monthly basis on every planet made gathering almost like playing the lotto lol but in a fun way. Crafting stations even had stats for gods sake. I bought a second account just to craft lol.
The houses were cool I remember going on "Vendor Hunts" looking for bargain deals on specific resources or skill tapes. Not to mention all the cool and sentimental weapons we would hang on our walls. At the same time I can understand the frustration for people with "cluttered" zones. I remember outside of Coronet just past the river was miserable to try and ride thru especially when 90% of the houses were from players who had quit the game after the gay combat revamp (Like me).
All in all I think Bioware will do a phenomonal job and probably "borrow" a few ideas from WOW, LOTR, Warhammer, Everquest, etc. I guess my main concern is Bioware making the non lightsaber weilding classes attractive so there isn't 99% jedi's running around.
Did u watch the trailer???? What I am trying to say is there is a different between going out and killing 10 boars versus actual characters that have that kind of immersion in the game itself. Yeah the quest might be go slay 10 boars, but the fell of it will be way different. Take for example the quest from the walkthru. That quest will be different depending on whch flashpoint option you choose, whether you are in a group or solo, etc etc
Why does everyone want to argue. If you don't like a game go hang it in your games forum jeez.
The 'other' SOE game EQ2 has instanced housing but it has many of the features that the older SWG had. I have played both and SWG had more options on housing, but EQ2 does allow extensive decorating, you can set up manaquins to showplace your armor and you can have sales displays in you home so people can buy stuff directly, saving the fee from the broker. You can have crafting stations in your house, and in the guild they even have a bulk material storage container where you can dump all your resources and when using the crafting stations in your guild it automatically draws from the storage area.
Decoration is not as good as SWG as not everything in the world can be dropped into a hous, only specific housing items, but they have a good selection. Many of my friends have spent hundreds of hourse decorating their homes, and there is a web site that has a Home Show on it when people post pictures of their homes. Even I, who am not overly excited by housing, have decorated 2 or three homes rather extensively with over 500 items in each of them, one is like a forest glade, filled with trees and ponds and perfect for the fae, another is a buildin filled with clockworks and gears (which move btw) smokestacks and crafting tables, perfect for a gnome. Ad oddly enough kitchens seem to be a BIG deal in EQ2. Not sure why but people spend hours getting their kitchens set up, some are amazingly crative.
Which shows that instanced housing CAN be very nicely done if the game designers want to do it. I am relatively sure some of the old SWG housing designers must have had input in the EQ2 housing.
I, too liked the housing out 'in the world" in SWG, but it can be done both correctly and badly, I think back to UO where the first server I was on had urban sprawl so bad there was no place NOT covered in houses. Hehe. I used to hunt monsters and mine and cut trees in alleys between houses.
I have a feeling that TOR will have so many loading screens it'll make AoC seem like a sandbox.
But then again, most MMOs are like this now aren't they...I think it's time for a sadface. Yep:
I snipped the rest of your comments because they're pointless.
If you want less loading time, then you want houses instanced.
If you want to be in your house, looking out a crowded metropolis, then every object in your house and every object in every other house has to be downloaded and dynamically updated for every player in the metropolis.
Further, voice dialog in an MMO is ground breaking. Housing is tired old hat. If you want to play house and read text, I'm sure there still plenty of little sandboxing MUDs running around. Ulitma Online is still kicking.
Full voice is a feature never before seen in an MMO. And it is the central element to BioWare's first entry into the genre. If that doesn't float your boat, you're probably not going to like TOR anyway.
It is not about the sides agreeing or disagreeing. Full voice over and story are the main feature that BioWare have been hyping. They're practically the only things that we know for certain are a part of TOR. Housing is pure speculation by fanboys jumping 100 milles to conclusions based on an off-hand response of "yeah it's in there" to a question that asked about multiple topics.
Have to agree, its not that fact that its go kill 10 something/go kill 10 something. at least you know WHY your going and killing 10 things and not just clicking past all the text to get to the objective.
I hope this is true. I was concerned crafting wouldn't even make it in but now possible player housing. SWEET!
Whee, cool! Yeah open housing would be best, but even LOTRO like housing would be better than no housing.
Man, I want this game NOW! XD
Have to agree, its not that fact that its go kill 10 something/go kill 10 something. at least you know WHY your going and killing 10 things and not just clicking past all the text to get to the objective.
I have never seen a game yet where it hasnt devolved into clicking past the text to get to the objective and as for those that think that it will be about infinite choices and unique character development are going to be horribly disappointed be as with all games once people discover that clicking yes, yes, yes, no, no creates a stronger character than clicking yes, yes, yes, no, yes then character development becomes linear.
People can argue until hell freezes over but every MMO is the same people gravitate to the strongest options whether it be classes, crafts or factions it is all the same.
I have never seen a game yet where it hasnt devolved into clicking past the text to get to the objective and as for those that think that it will be about infinite choices and unique character development are going to be horribly disappointed be as with all games once people discover that clicking yes, yes, yes, no, no creates a stronger character than clicking yes, yes, yes, no, yes then character development becomes linear.
People can argue until hell freezes over but every MMO is the same people gravitate to the strongest options whether it be classes, crafts or factions it is all the same.
Bollocks. Try playing Baldur's Gate by just clicking past the text. And I dont mean while checking a printed walkthrough. And there are also MMORPGs that use way less of the typical kill x fillerquests. Guild Wars is an example. While you can discuss its a MMO or not, its quests could be used in games that you do call MMORPGs.
It all boils down to the willingness of the developers.
But yes, there is always the player that tries to avoid any form of challenge, no matter if its twitch, strategic or puzzle based. And immediately turns to guides or other forms of handholding. No developer can fight that. Its not their job to tell players how to play their MMO. At most they can have an idea of how they intended for you to play it.
I have a feeling they're going to go with ships as housing.
I just hope its not instanced housing.
Cool,
I hope Player Housing is a fun and useful feature in TOR. The Idea of instanced houseing has been debated for SWG with the many static cities in game. There are those that argue it would totally kill Player build cities. The other side is if crafters want the bonues then they will have to join a player city. I like the idea a casual player could set up shop in an instanced apartment in one of the static cities and then move to a more roomy house if they stick with the game. Just something to consider.
I think that would actually be the perfect approach. For the two primary classes, Jedi and Sith, housing doesn't really fit into the genre. Sith would either live in barracks or temples, not own housing, and Jedi would live pretty much anywhere they travel, but not own housing either. Jedi particularly practice detachment from the entanglements of physical life. We do see in the movies that both utilize ships for travel and sometimes domicile.
At any rate, it would fit for bounty hunters and smugglers as well and be a great way to implement instanced housing. I hated instanced housing in EQ2, but think it would work here as ships.
I snipped the rest of your comments because they're pointless.
If you want less loading time, then you want houses instanced.
If you want to be in your house, looking out a crowded metropolis, then every object in your house and every object in every other house has to be downloaded and dynamically updated for every player in the metropolis.
Further, voice dialog in an MMO is ground breaking. Housing is tired old hat. If you want to play house and read text, I'm sure there still plenty of little sandboxing MUDs running around. Ulitma Online is still kicking.
Full voice is a feature never before seen in an MMO. And it is the central element to BioWare's first entry into the genre. If that doesn't float your boat, you're probably not going to like TOR anyway.
Again, your reading comprehension is whacked. I specifically said I want less loading screens, not less loading "time".
As for the voice you keep harping on, I've established I couldn't give a damn about it so please stop droning on and on about it to me. As to your revelation that I might not like TOR because of not caring about voice overs (talk about absurd), again, you've proven that you don't want to understand another's words as they write them. I specifically (which lead to this back and forth) stated that if they do housing in a way I like, and crafting in a way I like, then I'll play the game. No where in there was voice.
You may want to get over yourself in that other people play games for reasons different than your own and your belief that your reasons are somehow superior (which is how you started this back and forth). They aren't. Deal with it.
And on that note, as this back and forth was began on a totally immature slant of my gaming reasons are better than yours, I leave the "last word" to you. Trying to strongarm an understanding that others beliefs, game reasons are just as valid as yours is not my place. In a worldy light, that was your parent's responsibility.
This is very interesting news. If this is non-instanced player housing, I will be very excited and much, much more interested in what else TOR has to offer. If it is instanced housing, I'd rather they not waste their time and put that effort into something else.
I have never seen a game yet where it hasnt devolved into clicking past the text to get to the objective and as for those that think that it will be about infinite choices and unique character development are going to be horribly disappointed be as with all games once people discover that clicking yes, yes, yes, no, no creates a stronger character than clicking yes, yes, yes, no, yes then character development becomes linear.
People can argue until hell freezes over but every MMO is the same people gravitate to the strongest options whether it be classes, crafts or factions it is all the same.
Bollocks. Try playing Baldur's Gate by just clicking past the text. And I dont mean while checking a printed walkthrough. And there are also MMORPGs that use way less of the typical kill x fillerquests. Guild Wars is an example. While you can discuss its a MMO or not, its quests could be used in games that you do call MMORPGs.
It all boils down to the willingness of the developers.
But yes, there is always the player that tries to avoid any form of challenge, no matter if its twitch, strategic or puzzle based. And immediately turns to guides or other forms of handholding. No developer can fight that. Its not their job to tell players how to play their MMO. At most they can have an idea of how they intended for you to play it.
Not to mention it will be more story driven,witch im really excited about. I'm tired of the ok lets see how fast i can go form 0-80 in. Im at the point I want to ENJOY the games content and story (one of the reasons i returned to FF11). Dont get me wrong end game is hella fun, but its also the journey getting there ,and stories of the misshaps,wipes and sillness while playing that makes a game fun.
Doh well on the subject at hand I think any sort of player housing will be cool, Open would be the coolest of course..instanced not bad,a place to call home,but at least put in permissions so freinds and guildes can enjoy a nice warm bowl of soup >.0.
Some people (IMO) are getting so critical about mmos/games that it seems to be more stressful than fun. I remember the good old days of playing super mario bro. 3 for 32 hours when it first came out >.0. Toe jam and earl, etc etc.. I dont fall into hype anymore, dont get my hopes up or demand that a game have this or that... I do get excited though to see new info and gameplay video about a game im intrested in playing,that show me what the game is going to be like...and well if its got fun and community in mind Im on board...sorry this is probally not the thread fer that paragraph ..Coffee coffee coffee!!!.
In regards to player housing, it would obviously be a great addition. Preferably not instanced but even then. So many people see the voice acting/story and assume these professional developers are focussing a solely single player experience for a mmorpg. Bioware and this very well funded project know exactly what sort of features a mmorpg needs to keep fans playing for years.
In response to comments that voice acting won't make "killing 10 boars" any more fun or exciting, couldn't be more wrong. Using myself as an example, I never do quests. Walls of text that are boring and uninteresting. However those ingame cinemantics and story will definitely make me want to do every possible quest in the game. So there you go.
Yep :)
For the clueless, instanced housing is useless as pointed out very well in several posts in this thread. It basically becomes an extra storage area and that is about it. Having experienced being part of a very active city in SWG, I can tell you it adds depth and life to the game.
So for you who feel it clutters up the game, you are the ones who play for a short while, then find something to complain about and leave. Developers should ignore you as you are short term headcount at best.
So if their housing is instanced it is just another yawn.
I agree.. some of my fondest memories of MMOs are of my friends and I in our massive player cities or houses in games like UO, DAOC, etc. It certainly made me feel like I was part of a virtual world. :)
But I do beleive that they will make it similar to FFXI's mog house (instanced, but you can invite people). They've said that their game isn't a simulation in any way, when asked about housing and their economy in a few interviews. Personally I would rather an instance than nothing at all, though.
Again, your reading comprehension is whacked. I specifically said I want less loading screens, not less loading "time".
As for the voice you keep harping on, I've established I couldn't give a damn about it so please stop droning on and on about it to me. As to your revelation that I might not like TOR because of not caring about voice overs (talk about absurd), again, you've proven that you don't want to understand another's words as they write them. I specifically (which lead to this back and forth) stated that if they do housing in a way I like, and crafting in a way I like, then I'll play the game. No where in there was voice.
You may want to get over yourself in that other people play games for reasons different than your own and your belief that your reasons are somehow superior (which is how you started this back and forth). They aren't. Deal with it.
And on that note, as this back and forth was began on a totally immature slant of my gaming reasons are better than yours, I leave the "last word" to you. Trying to strongarm an understanding that others beliefs, game reasons are just as valid as yours is not my place. In a worldy light, that was your parent's responsibility.
I don't care why you play games.
In the discussion of BioWare's Star Wars The Old Republic, voice and story are BioWare's central selling points.
It is you who seems to have a comprehension issue. The comment made about housing was in an interview at GamesCon. The response from BioWare was of the nature, "Yeah, we have that" in response to a four or five part question that happened to included housing.
BioWare has made many statements on the use of instancing and it seems that it will be a fairly heavily instanced game. People who apparently follow the news on the game much closer than you seem to think that housing is going to be KOTOR ship style.
Your style of gameplay requires massive resources on the client side. To populate housing in a large area that is not instanced has a major impact on every person who plays the game, regardless of whether or not they want to play virtual house. BioWare has stated many times that their choice of stylized graphics is done in part to reduced the load on the client. It seems counter-intuitive to use a simplified graphic technique that requires less processor and memory and then turn around and bog down every major hub with billions of dynamic player objects.
I do not wish to detract from your personal creativity. I just don't want it forced on every other play who doesn't care what your house looks like. That's where instanced housing comes in. That way, the rest of us don't have to load every object in your house into memory or store the contents of your house on our hard drives just so you can sit in your kitchen and watch the virtual world go by.
Anyone who has played Horizons and seen the right way to do player housing. Conversely anyone who played SWG has seen the wrong way to do player housing.
Of course the housing is going to be instanced. With the possible subscriber numbers this game is likely to draw the only viable choice is instanced housing. Otherwise they would need 200 servers each with 50 worlds were people could build houses. Half of all houses started will be abandoned anyone and if they had open world housing they would have to come up with a system for dealing with abandoned buildings. Instances is way faster, way cheaper, way easier and just makes too much sense to not do.
"I do not wish to detract from your personal creativity. I just don't want it forced on every other play who doesn't care what your house looks like. That's where instanced housing comes in. That way, the rest of us don't have to load every object in your house into memory or store the contents of your house on our hard drives just so you can sit in your kitchen and watch the virtual world go by."
You really need to get out of the 90's. You are discussing programming that went out of style then. Localized housing should not detract from your performance in a MMO today unless it is staffed by those who have no clue how to code a MMO. Even UO fixed that problem years ago. Even SWG did not have that kind of problem. Isn't stating a problem that is no longer a problem kind of silly?
How so?
If the guy that I'm responding to wants to be able to be in his house and have it in a major hub so he can watch the world go by, how can he be in his house and not effect the game for those who pass by?
SWG didn't allow you to put your houses in major hubs.
If the "restricted areas" are in remote locations, fine. If that's the case, then it is no different than having them instanced.
This is how I see LA in regrds to that. "Housing...housing? Are you trying to piss me off? That is not very Star Warsy? Where in any movies did you ever see a main character own a house?! Where is the "iconicness" of owning a house in the Star Wars Universe? And what about story? How can we add voice acting to a house to progress the story? It's all about he voices and the story. No...no...no...we won't have it. No hiouses!"
LA is in control here. If you think Bioware has that kind of freedom over the Star Wars IP you're delusional. LA all ready went down that road and look what they did to a great game - SWG preNGE. They made it more Star Warsy and we got 9 iconic classes. How many classes are in SW:ToR? 8 oh yeah...they got it down to 8! Just 8 classes. LA is in charge and I seriously doubt you'll see player housing.
If by some off chance there is housing, though, I suspect it will be instanced. It wouldn't be very Star Warsy to have houses littering the landscape.
I prefer instanced housing. An own house for everyone + twinks leads to a huge waste of place.
I agree.. some of my fondest memories of MMOs are of my friends and I in our massive player cities or houses in games like UO, DAOC, etc. It certainly made me feel like I was part of a virtual world. :)
But I do beleive that they will make it similar to FFXI's mog house (instanced, but you can invite people). They've said that their game isn't a simulation in any way, when asked about housing and their economy in a few interviews. Personally I would rather an instance than nothing at all, though.
Same here. All and all , Im really hopeful for this game, I love the Star Wars Universe,never had a chance to play SWG as to when it came out I did not have a PC or access to internet.Now I have a pretty good pc and have played many mmos,they are all getting stagnet with the whole level/grind/farm...dont get me wrong I dont mind the grind per say or farming for stuff,hell I use to farm leather for 2hours in WoW because I WANTED TO. But other than that it just felt empty after 4years. playing FF11 again reminded me how much TO ME at least a story driven mmo is sooo much better and fun. ya FF11 is more of a time sink to get to max level,but if I have learned anything from wow, its to enjoy the lower levels and ENJOY LEVELING,and the content. And the styleized graphics that bio ware is going for,I think is great...it puts them apart from other mmos imo.
Well said Oz.
Well said Oz.
You two are made for each other.
You two are made for each other.
Nah, we just don't assume that we know in specific what another person is talking about (and being wrong) and then go on attack mode damning anyone else's likes if they don't mirror your own, like you do.
Was the player housing ever confirmed?
holy crap that would be awesome. I hope they got SWG, UO style rather than LOTRO style.
hopefully they will not be instanced housing otherwise its just for decoration. if its incorporated into the the playable zones this will be best. it doesnt have to be like swg with miles of ghost towns and mish mash of housing, they could make buildable zones for housing and fingers crossed housing is just the tip of iceberg of full player citys in game. maybe player houses could only exist in world with active subscription, and pack up into datapad much like swg if no subscription, or they could ramp up the maintenance fee considerably in swg it was peanuts to pay house maintenance for a year make it x 50.
i honestly dont think swg had it that wrong at all with the player houses there was so much real estate in game that yes some areas did have lots of houses but just had to go out a few k on your speeder and there was plenty of pristine land. if they were really brave they would add factional destructable citys, best times i had in swg were player city battles over bases this was end game for the pvpers everything else pales into comparison, but looking at graphics for characters i think this will just be wow clone game, with silly doll houses.
i think if they add player houses, it will be a premade house in a major city (for example Coruscant, room enough there for houses :) its a damn cityplanet...) and youll probably be able to furnitize it yourself, instanced or not, its cool to have a real home in an MMO :)
p.s. Home is where the Hearthstone is :)