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EverQuest : Sony Developing EverQuest "Next"
Posted Aug 17, 2009 by Michael Bitton
The guys over at ZAM have uncovered an interesting little tidbit from the last chapter of the new EverQuest 10th Anniversary book.
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The chapter, entitled "EverQuest Next" was written by EQ Creative Director Rich Waters, where he discusses the considerations SOE is taking into account when developing their next iteration of the EverQuest franchise for next generation gamers:
"As we contemplate future EverQuest games, we have to ask, what does the modern MMO player really want from today's games? What will they want four years from now? Current MMOs are still designed traditionally with a pen-and-paper game feel behind them-lots of stats and numbers, experience-based levels and a focus on auto-attack dice roll combat. Will that work for next-gen MMOs, or do we try something different?"
"So you can see there's a lot to wrestle with as we begin laying the foundation for EverQuest 'Next.' As I write this, we have concept artists and game designers working hard in our studio-taking the lessons of the past, the best parts of the present and the most promising ideas for the future-to bring the world of Norrath to a new generation of players, as well as the dedicated legions of fans who made the EverQuest franchise timeless. I hope we'll see you there."
Via ZAM.
What do you think the next EverQuest should be like? Let us know in the comments!
I can't imagine what they could do to make it next-gen ready. I just hope when its launched its ready to play!
after reading that article, I came away thinking it could be console based which would turn me off completely. Otherwise, I'd like to see another EQ, but cannot imagine what to expect let a lone when.
Get rid of the hard core raiding and the next EQ would be so much better. I agree that materialistic things in the game is what everyone wants lately, but putting in the hard core grind is pushing away a lot of casual players. They really need to "look back" instead of looking forward. Because if they want numbers EQ back in its earlier years had the most subs compared to how its like now. It was a great game, it was all about the community being able to do simple things without a care about all the loot. They gotta stop it with all the uber loot and its tedious grind to acquire them.
EDIT: EQ 1 died when you were able to kill all the original gods. Every expansion after with its lore didn't make much difference anymore. The original lore was at its best.
How about this one: Stick with a design from the set go and don't change it, maybe even multiple times, while the game is live? Just a thought...
(And I'm not necessarily talking about SWG. Which is the or a prime example obviously.)
How about bringing back that sense of exploration from the first EQ, getting rid of zones, having a highly customizable interface like the current eq2 does (which I really like), a graphics engine which is stable, up-to-date. Keeping the movie like experience of EQ2, getting rid of instances or atleast stray away from the mindset of heavy instances, it makes the world feel like a single player game more then an mmo
basically they need to copy some stuff from vanguard, eq1/2
but do it good :)
Best thing to do is not make it like all the other MMo's out there today where any crack riddled 12 yr old can make top level in 3 weeks.
Make it like OLD EQ prior to Planes of Power where you had to achieve things with effort. Where you had to group. Where gaining a level felt like an achievement. Where traveling took longer than 10 seconds.
Want instant gratification and an MMO on easy mode. Play WOW with the rest of the kiddies and brain dead people. Want a real MMO like they used to make that drew you into it and grabbed you... than go old school.
EQ's Velious expansion to me was top notch. I loved everything about the epicness of it. The way guilds raced to epic mobs. No ignorant kiddie instancing. COMPETITION WAS THE FLAVOR. The drama it caused. The grinding.. oh yes.... I have killed MILLIONS of dwarfs and furbies out in the wastes.. and loved every bit of it.
I haven't found a good MMO since I left EQ and DAOC ( pre ToA ) and have longed for another like those. Vanguard had potential but alas.................. I've been lookin for roughly 6 years now. Played EVE for over 4 years but it never filled that void.
As much as some will disagree with this... hire Brad Mquaid to make the next EQ :) I'd buy a lifetime subscription at $300 a pop right now all day long. To me... he makes great MMo's. Although Vanguard got abit screwed up and had endless money issues.. the right concept for it was in place.
Not all of us want want easy mode kiddie MMO's like WOW and Aion. Some of us want real depth .
QFT
Brad Mcquaid with the proper resources would make the next wow killer
Pretty sure that's exactly what I just said.......... LOL
Sounds fishy and smells like Free Realms meets Everquest.
So long as Smed is involved nothing with integrity will emerge from SOE, and any team that think they wanna be a 'wow killer' will end up being another Vanguard/Silius cluster F*3ck.
Advice: Just put Everquest in the title and I'll try it.
You don't think Smed's handling of SWG wasn't stellar?
The decisions he made as far as SWG were nothing short of monumental in gaming !!
/sarcasm off :)
Top Ten Things I'd like to see in a MMORPG;
1. A True Sandbox. (i.e. Skill based instead of level based).
2. Individualized. (i.e. make it more about the characters than the loot).
3. Customized out the wahzoo! (CoH/CoV are still unparalleled in this regard).
4. Actually includes realistic physics (again, CoH/CoV can teach them something here).
5. Include "tournaments" with archery, dueling, jousting, boxing, wrestling, etc. that characters can engage in just for fun.
6. Realistic tavern/bar atmosphere. Include background chatter, bar brawls, buxom beer wenches that will flirt for that extra coin. Put some freaking people in the taverns/bars!!! These places are supposed to be where the action is. Instead they are nothing more than a vendor exchange.
7. Realistic character combat animations. I want to watch the action, not miss it while I'm pounding away on all those "combo" attacks. (When a character blocks a swing, show it. When a character ripostes, show it.)
8. Put in an option for sorcerous duels based on magical offensive/defensive/countering spells. Why should tanks have all the glory? (even though I mostly play tanks)
9. No more character "bound" items. Level basing is fine, but don't give me something I can't sell, pass to a friend, etc. It isn't realistic and it is just plain dumb.
10. Tie the crafting skills to an actual world economy. Vanguard actually did this with housing, boats, guild halls. Just don't make it such a grind like Vanguard did. Totally sucked.
My two cents.... Ok, 10 cents.
This might explain where Jeff Butler was sent when soe bought out sigil. They sent him and a small team to a "new project".
However I don't think soe has what it takes to recapture the magic let alone create something ground breaking anymore. Especially with Smedlys insane lust for RMT and money focused game design instead of focusing on fun gameplay design, but who knows. Maybe they get lucky if they actually set out to make a game and not a product.
This is a great topic and there are a lot of new ideas that would be cool to discuss, but to be honest I would just like them to stick to what has worked in the past. No more "next gen" efforts as those have not truned out to well for soe. Stick to what works and see what happens.
AHAHAHAHAHA..Brad... AHAHAHAHAHA... McQuaid..AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.. WoW killer..AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You guys crack me up. The irony of all your posts is awesome. This thread is seriously awesome comedy gold. Keep up the good work!
AHAHAHAHAHA..Brad... AHAHAHAHAHA... McQuaid..AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.. WoW killer..AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You guys crack me up. The irony of all your posts is awesome. This thread is seriously awesome comedy gold. Keep up the good work!
it's true man, if you got brad, richard garriot, and maybe a few devs from the original AC1 team, they would make one killer mmo imo, as long as they stick to the fun of the game, and make new fresh ideas and recapture that feeling of exploring the world, they could make one kickass game
Brad made Eq. Best MMO ever ( PVE wise ) to ME ... let me stress "ME"
I didn't think Vanguard was bad. I know the issues and the failure... but it's far from a bad game. Only thing sad as far as Vanguard goes is how good it could have been if not for Sigil running out of money well before game was ready to be launched.
So yeah... I can't wait for the enxt Mquaid game. I'd do a lifetime sub if they offered it in a heartbeat.
Some of us prefer games that don't appeal to the lemmings IE Wow, Aion, etc etc. I prefer something with depth... real gaming... not watered down drivel any crack riddled 12 yr old can max out in a matter of 2-4 weeks. Thanks but i'll pass !!
Perhaps this means DX10 and beyond.
EQ2 was the leading edge at the time and you can expect SOE to be the leader once again.Whatever they come up with ,i will probably play it,as far as i am concerned they make good games.Bug free?oh heck no ,i expect thir games to have some bugs,but when you are the leading edge developer,other games always shine by learning from you.
One area untapped in MMORPG's that has recently become the norm for other types of games is PHYSICS.there is a lot that can be done with it,no matter what SOE comes up with for their next installment,you can expect lag and glitches simlar to what happened with VG,it is to be expected when you push the envelope of gaming and i actually enjoy developers that move forward.
So basically, people in this thread want an korean grinder with EQ1 lore.
Got it.
They don't want it "easy mode", and since MMO's take about as much skill as clipping finger nails, that can only mean that "not easy mode" = "tedious as heck".
And skill based games are level based games...
And sandbox games are themepark games that weren't finished...
SoE needs to go away. I loved EQ1 and it seemed when Varent was bought out and SoE took full control it all went downhill from there. It slowly has become the worse MMO company out there. Its poor communication with the community and absolutely no morals or business ethics, makes any MMO that falls under their title an instant failure. I don't understand how at one point they were one of the biggest names and now everything they touch turns to crap. Fire SMED and hire someone with some business sense and maybe the "next" EQ won't suck. EQ2 at launch was horrible... now its a playable game, but still doesn't grab me... feels too much like a WoW ripoff now. EQ doesn't have much of a population to play it anymore, and don't even get me started on the rest of the MMO SoE lineup.
So, what should the "next" everquest be? Its simple... something innovative, and like the original everquest. Don't go rip off all the ideas of modern MMOs and put it in the game. Be bold and be diffrent when designing it. Hopefully this is what we will get, but i from the language they used, I have a feeling this will be a lot like another wow clone.
This is great news. I had hopes they would not let the franchise die.
I'd like skill, not level based abilities - i'd like classes to be suggested but not locked in - instead of 'a ranger' or 'a scout', let my character take the parts that i want - speed, stealth, tracking, animal affinity, archery - and not have to have the rest of the cobbled together rogue crap. Same for wizards - if i want to specialize in teleportation yet be a pet based caster, let it be by the skills i pick, not by a 'class hat' i have to wear. I'd probalby be the slow arse who'd have way too many skills and would be leveling at the speed of glaciation, but that would be my choice and you can pick your johnny 3 skills character and have just as much fun if thats your cup of tea.
I'd like more character customization. Why can i make my nose tilt up or down but breasts are one size fits all? why is everyone so *fit*? can't we have scrawny or tubby gnomes?
User Created Content: yes. it would have to be donated. however, if a user actually created a lot of viable and usable content, could they not potentially be hired and actually paid for it? at the very least, User created content would open up character customization up somewhat - wigs! give us wigs!!!!! personal tabbards, banners, think of the furniture and tapestries and rugs, the clothes... yeah, some of us are all about the appearance of things or who the hell would ever level a carpenter to 80?
I'd like competition to be optional. I do not join MMO games to be in competition - i want to play cooperatively. All the epeen waving really makes me sick - i don't raid. Not because i don't enjoy the game or because i can't do as i'm told and follow cooperative orders - Im good at that - but because i can't stand 5% of the raiders - incredibly obnoxious, overbearing and rude lootwhores who think that's what the game's all about. Note. 5% ruin the rest of the experiance for me.
And yeah. 5% can ruin an entire experiance. if you only had 5% rat urine in your drink of choice, would you still drink it?
Skill levels = level based games, there's no two ways about it. Templates are what you had in UO, and you had the problem known as "Template of the Month" and since people always want to "respec" due to the nerfing of said "Template of the Month", you lose immersion because the magic-user one month is suddenly a melee sword wielding barbarian the next. It also lead to the wonderful realm of "macroing" skills. Problem with the a-la-carte method is your glacially leveling wizard will complain that <ranger/mage combo or whatever> is better than you and you don't think that's right and you whine/complain, and the devs nerf, and the cycle continues. Lets let that die peacefully in SW:G and UO. Allowing people to gimp themselves is *bad* for business.
Character customization in a lot of games coming out is much like you ask for, except for the "fat/tubby" part. This has been studied many times, and it basically comes down to "people like to play characters that DON'T look ugly/fat/slow." Sure there are exceptions, but it isn't worth their time to code it to allow the 1% of people who want to play a tubby character to do so. While more choices in CC is good, making the CC make ugly chars is *bad* for business.
User Created Content: What a legal nightmare. PotBS does a VERY limited amount (or did anyways) of this. A few others allow guild/tabard images... BUT, they have to have people approving them, and then there's the copyright violation claims... the legal complications of who owns stuff is one reason why the music stuff in LOTRO is so canned.... User Created Content: its typically *bad* for business.
Cooperation vs Competition: I'm with you on this one. EQ1 was very competitive when it came to boss spawns, and I hated the drama associated with it even when I was in the #1 guild on my server which could effectively ****block the #2/#3 guilds on any content. WoW is much less confrontational with VERY few world bosses. But alas, the "PvP" bug infected the MMO genre, and why I don't know because its utterly failed every time its been tried outside of the games specifically designed for it (and I wouldn't even call them glowing successes). RPG mechanics in particular do not lend themselves to good PvP experiences... wtfpwning mobs is fine, because they a) don't pay a subscription fee, and b) have no feelings, but when you allow a level 80 wizard to spawn camp newbies .... you lose subs, its *bad* for business...
They may as well stick to EQ it seems to be the only game they can get right.
SOE sucks the life out of MMOs. SOE is a leech hungry to destroy any good game it can. SOE can only see ways of milking their playerbase with ridiculous payment schemes such as their 15/month subscription with RMT shop on top of that. Their lust for money making schemes blinds them from what makes a good game.
I would love a new Everquest but what they are describing isn't what made Everquest the original a hit.
Ive heard WOW killer already and im sure i will hear WOW clone before long and of course all of those declaring their undying hatred of SOE have already surfaced, but as i said, its good news at least for some of us.
We dont need a wow killer because the true wow killer is blizzard and there ignoring the fanbase devs who are pissing off alot of there players lately.
Another EQ would work but to me it would have to be a sandbox PVE game with WOW type PVP. Level based games are getting old and the casual player is sick of them.
Another thought is if they make another EQ game will it just siphon players from EQ and EQ2 like EQ2 did to EQ ? I dont think the playerbase can support all 3 unless the next one is unique and generates new players and doesnt take many away from EQ and EQ2. Oh and for fuck sakes learn your lesson SOE DO NOT RELEASE a bugged unfinished game (alla eq2) it will kill your playerbase. EQ2 is probably the best PVE game out right now and no one plays it because of the HORRIBLE launch.
I'm just tired of anorexic twig elves, stocky, stubby humans and breasts like cantelopes on anything mammalian and female. I'm surprised they haven't just started sticking random mammoth breasts on iksar and sarnaks.
And i'm also very much tired of having to be a 'level' to do things. Maybe if they could give us things like in city of heros - pick your baseline, pick your set, then pick your subset, and then 'additional powersets' that would work out better. I'm just really annoyed with having to put up with *other* people's idea of what a ranger or druid should be, or a paladin or wizard or whatever.
User created content has been bantied about for ages - and yeah, i would really rather someone put it through a process so we don't end up with the penis banner for every guy who thinks he's funny.
I myself would like to see an eq title again, though with a lot of different things. Now before I continue, I have played EQ1 for about 4 years and never touched eq2. (was busy trying many other games)
Sorry for those of you out there that tl:dr this, its no biggie for me.
There was a lot of things in EQ that I liked. lets not forget that before asian grinders EQ pre PoP was a sizable grind so asian grinders arnt the orginal grinder games,they just make tons of them for mostly their market. Couple of things I would like to see in a newer Everquest title that would give me pause and make me think about playing it:
1. I didnt mind the grind, and honestly I think that getting to max level in short time periods ruins content in games (why have content that gets burned through at blinding speeds? yes I know there are those who like that and WoW probably produced a few lol)
2. Customizable interface. I have steadily watched 3rd party legit programs grow for customization in interfaces. While its not entirely necessary for a company to make a highly customizable interface, I prefer to not have to do 3rd party software from legit companies or websites to get an interface I like.
3. AI mentality: give this a good shot in the arm. I know that scripting advanced AI is probably a tough challenge, but instead of using skills on say a timer, have the AI be a bit more random, have wider skill sets, and have a better threat choice. Before, tanks could build agro and unless someone dumped tons of damage, they maintained it. the more intelligent monsters (the classic ones like dragons) should act a bit differently like attacking other things besides a tank. An intelligent mob would hit healers probably first, thats why you bring more of em with the parties. This would apply mainly for larger raid type encounters etc. Give them options like fight or flight and choosing it differently then say "my health is at xx percent i need to run". Again scripting this stuff is probably tough, but would be nice to see in a game for PVE.
4. PVP: this is a stickler since EQ wasnt based around it. I wont advocate other pvp systems already out there, however some sort of territorial control and at least 3 or more separate factions/realms/whatever would help. Nothing like DAOC or WAR, but with all the options in games these days for building houses/castles etc there are plenty of options for territorial controls. PVP isnt a must have for me in Everquest, as I loved the content and lore of EQ1.
5. Instances: Keep these relativity low in number and dont make them to the point that everyone does them. Instances dont kill the social aspect of a game, but they dont overly help it either from my experiences. For example: Maybe have some high end mobs in an instance for fun if a groups favorite target isnt up like a dragon or giant etc. Dont make the instance pour out tons of epic loot. keep it as an option for players to do when they feel like doing it but not grinding same one over and over.
6. Seemless world: many players like seemless worlds instead of load times, cant really disagree with that at all.
7: Character Developement: This one is a big one for me. While in some games I like class systems, in others I favor the pick what you want to do style. Dont go overboard and allow every player to get every skill from every progression. example, warrior mages, perhaps someone likes to fight up close and personal but wants to get off a few shots at a mob prior to slugging it out. cap the skill points earned from leveling so that people cant have everything. Make palyers chose what they want. now this can be a double edged sword with the flavor of the month build where everyone is using it. This would be another area that would be difficult to balance for in pvp as many of us have seen. Class specializations or so called Elite professions: maybe have a sizable quest line to boost the powers of some skill sets to power up players. Limit it to picking a specific skill line so no one could multi class specs. IE melee skill only, not caster or ranged etc.
8:Casual vs Hardcore: not going to go into great detail as this has been beaten to death over and over. Two things this classic argument causes: Casual players dont always have the time to dedicate to a game as some others might. casuals may not play game for as long before quiting. Hardcore gamers want something to stroke their ego's and they "brag" if you will to players who dont have it, often with vileness which creates bad communities. Finding a middle ground will probably be the toughest thing for any game on this subject.
Sorry for the wall of text, just putting out some thoughts on what Ive encountered over the years and would like to see in the next installment.
Also, I dont pay attention to who is at the helm at sony or who dev's a game as lead developer.
OH OH let me make a list of things that MUST be in teh new EQ...
1) Along with a $35 a month subscrition, please....
Only allow 1 character...period...
Redesign the entire world so no one recognizes anything, even though just a few hundred years have passed
no in game support
poor customer service
LOTS of plat sellers
farming and spawn camping
and above all else, make sure that players have access to a virtual "mall" where they can purchase in game items to make their character more powerful than it would be if they just played teh game and EARNED their items...
PLEASE INCLUDE ALL OF THIS....as it wouldn't be EQ or EQ2 without them...
If games like Free Realms give any indication of the direction SoE is moving their games I will not be interested.
What I would like to see:
I like to take lessons learned from history when confronting a problem. I'd say they need to create an evolved Everquest. For instance, how has combat evolved from 300 years ago, to now? How about 30 years ago, to now? The answer is A LOT! So why then is magic the same, and the archetypes the same in EQ2 as they were in the original EQ?
So first things first, make whatever classes are in the new EQ evolved versions of the past classes. Surely new magical or technological breakthroughs have occured in the last two games timelines to warrant evolution in magical, melee, and ranged combat.
Next is gameplay elements that has nothing to do with the IP, such as the tried and true turn-based/auto-attack combat mechanic. I like the direction some more recent games have taken this genre, such as DDO, AOC, Darkfall, and TCoS. A mixture of FPS/turn-based combat is interesting, as is a full fps system. We need eyes on the combat, not on a hotbar. Evading, dodging, and blocking while casting spells, swinging a sword, or shooting a bow is what's exciting. Not pressing 1, 2, 3, pause, 1, 2, 3 etc
QFT
Brad Mcquaid with the proper resources would make the next wow killer
/Agreed !
I agree with you non-raiding sentiment, at least the raid or die problem. A RPG without special enchanted loot, isn't a very exciting RPG. Think of good fantasy novels. There usually is a special weapon that is required to defeat this ultra bad evil guy. The Sword of Shannara and the Sword of Truth as an example. It only stands to reason that doing something hard should reward something and the harder that something is, the better the reward should be. Then it's just a matter of choosing how hard you want your adventure to be.
The problem isn't with the loot so much; instead, it's lies with the envious and greedy players. A person who doesn't play the game the way they like to play it (ie. solo, small group, raids), but instead plays the game solely to gain the best gear, isn't right in the head to begin with.
I don't want to focus on a solution to this right now, but even if I did, it'd be a waste of time. The developers will figure this stuff out, as I'm sure they know that not everyone likes to raid.
If they are able to improve upon EQ and EQ2 I just might try "Nexter"Quest.
How many people do you think would want to play an MMO if there were NO raiding...I don't mean teh uber raids that only a small fraction of players ever get to do...But most guilds have some sort of "raids" even if it's just to clear a zone and kill the named boss. In EQ2 that would be the epic mob boss...In eq the boss of the zone...There has to be some sort of goal oriented play...The only other option would really be a completely role played game, and as good as that might sound to some, it's not very realistic...I loved Eq and EQ2 when I played, I was a casual player and I was a hard core raider...(differnt times in my life) and both forms are required if the game is to be a success...
I will be there that is for sure! I periodically check Sony's site, to see if they are making a EQ 3 or what ever. This is good news for myself and many others. I have not found a game I loved playing more then EQ. I loved the comradship and friends I met in the tunnels. If anything, I hope you allow for the originality of the players that they showed, in developing that area to meet up and sell, and help one another out.
I agree with the last poster.
I read somehwere today about how some A$$hat stated one of the reasons Spellborn failed was because of a lack of Auctioneer at release..... ummm almost everyone who played EQ in the early days LOVED the tunnel. Not everyone did but I would say the majority did. I loved it. I remember my first time leaving Qeynos and going across the continent to see this Friday night bazaar. I was floored. After that the bazaar went from a weekly event to everyday event. You met new people. You made deals and trades. Sometimes you scored items at super cheap prices cause someone wanted to clear their inventory. This is the same for grouping. It had a community and it pulled you in. It was something special. Than came the Ah and the tunnel ended up being hollow and some of the magic died out .
I miss it all lol
SANDBOX!!!!
SANDBOX!
SANDBOX!!!!
Put Creatures here, there, dungeons here and there... Make it skill based, not level based... Have however many skills in the game you want, but you can only have 1000 total 'experience points,' and have the mastery of a skill take a total of 100 points, for a total ability of 10 mastered skills (thinking UO -like here, obviously).
Make the game PvP-based with something similar to open-PvP but not to the point where its gankfest 2009... Also include non-PvP servers, but build the game around PvP and PvE...not just PvE or just PvP. Include arena-like PvP for fun, but do NOT make it the primary source of PvP, like in WoW.
Have player-owned housing areas, or even better, right in and around the entire world, VERY much like UO. Allow PvP in these areas. (some of the best PvP I ever experienced was in and around player housing in UO - awgh, the nastalgia)
Make the game fun for both grouping and soloing people, and give all classes the ability to solo, as well as play NEEDED rolls in most groups.
Most of all... DO NOT release the game until it is 120% FINISHED and COMPLETE!!!
...My 2 cents and what I'd like to see in a next-gen MMO. ^_^
You want Everquest done right?
Get the masters of RPG's (and soon to be MMO's) to buy the rights to the name and bring out "Everquest Online".
Who?
Bioware.
Nuff said.
Everquest needs to be PvE - PvP servers simply are not as popular and there's a reason for that.
I've played PvP. I don't mind most of it - but in a game where a lvl 25 character cant' even HIT a lvl 80, its bogus. 80 lvl 1 characters should be able to swarm a lvl 80 and at least muss his 'do.
Everquest 1 and 2 are both PvE with special servers and rulesets for PvP. So - if they made PvP part of the game, and integral to it, it would no longer be Everquest and irrelevant to this thread.
So its time to move in a different direction, PvP based version of EQ in the future. As for saying no one want to play PvP, you couldn't be father from the truth if it hit you on the nose lol.
So its time to move in a different direction, PvP based version of EQ in the future. As for saying no one want to play PvP, you couldn't be father from the truth if it hit you on the nose lol.
Failed fantasy based RPG PVP games litter the landscape. No reason to add one more to the list. Aside from WoW's fluff PvP (no real penalties for dying, no real reason to fight), every other fantasy mmorpg with PvP at its core (DAOC, WAR, AOC, Darkfall, Shadowbane, etc etc) has failed miserably to do both good pvp, and keeping subs.
Failed fantasy based RPG PVP games litter the landscape. No reason to add one more to the list. Aside from WoW's fluff PvP (no real penalties for dying, no real reason to fight), every other fantasy mmorpg with PvP at its core (DAOC, WAR, AOC, Darkfall, Shadowbane, etc etc) has failed miserably to do both good pvp, and keeping subs.
The same can be said about just as many pve games. The problem isn't PvP vs PvE, the problem is the sad condition most games get released in. Hell, EQ2's first years read much like what we are seeing today in pvp games.
Failed fantasy based RPG PVP games litter the landscape. No reason to add one more to the list. Aside from WoW's fluff PvP (no real penalties for dying, no real reason to fight), every other fantasy mmorpg with PvP at its core (DAOC, WAR, AOC, Darkfall, Shadowbane, etc etc) has failed miserably to do both good pvp, and keeping subs.
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Actually DAOC rocked as far as pvp and RVR went I don't know what game you were playing. My first 2 years on Andred/Mordred ( THE hardcore 24 hbours a day servers ) are the best in gaming for me as for others. So no I disagree 100000000% as others will. If thats how you feel.. fine.. but to say fail? Your Delusional.
As far as Shadowbane goes.. never played it but have heard quite a few people say the pvp game rocked.
Daoc started losing it's player base once TOA was released. Trying to make a game like that a hardcore grind like EQ didn't work nor is it what the player base wanted. Again.. to say fail? Your high on crack.
Without a virtual world where things break and get destroyed, binding is a necessity or you start paying (Like EQ 1) for mundane items in hundreds or thousands of platinum.
Whatever it is, it will have Stationcash and gambling witth real money via loot cards, and therefore suck.
My original EQ days were the best gaming days of my life.
Scrap everything EQ2... BRING ON THE EQ1 (before PoP!)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EQ 1 with a flavour of something 'next-gen' will be REALLY something to look forward to.
I'm another one of those that hasn't been happy with an MMO since EQ1. My theory is because of the classes. I have yet to see any classes in any other MMO's come close to being as cool as EQ1 including EQ2! Remember how cool druids were and then the beastlords came out and they were a great addition as well! Relying on a druid or wizard for a ride was also great till they added PoP. It took some of the need for those classes out which also took away getting to know people.
I say bring back EQ 1 but scale back some of the changes made with expansions. Bring it back with better graphics but not graphics that look plastic like EQ2. Bring back the original NPC's even and most importantly bring back all the classes we grew to love that can't be found in any other game the way it was done in EQ2. Also, don't forget those cool spell effects! :-)
Who's the housewife-turned-model at the pic? XD
I have not been playing EQ1 or Vanguard much lately. I got a bit tired of it. Some things that would bring me back and get me excited:
1) Customizable character images. And I like Fat, short, skinny.... how much effort does it take to create a body type slider?
2) Customizable classes, so that everone is not a cooky-cutter image of everyone else. Even just a spell or melee skill tree would be better than nothing. Learn a basic skill and you can open other skill options which lead each character to different directions of developement. How hard could that be? Levels are OK, but doing away with them would not really irritate me. Let skill levels be important, rather than character levels.
3) If you are going to keep levels, make levels goals, rather than grinds. How about Every Level takes the same amount of EXP to attain, once you get the level, you gain options to learn skills which improve your character, add to stats, or hit points or spell points.... allow for more customization in character design.
4) If you keep EXP, then remember that in the real world experiences can be gained in more ways than kacking things. Learning a tradeskill, practicing trading, just living from day to day, traveling from place to place, doing tasks for people. Make monster killing just a part of how you gain exp, not the main method for gaining exp. Being defeated should actually be worth more exp than winning.... sigh, but that would be contra-indicated I would think. LOL.
5) I like instances. Make a good combination of instanced adventures and set piece adventures and you will enthuse me for sure. I sometimes like to go it alone, and sometimes love to be in a group. Instances for both individual play styles and group play styles would be nice. The one thing that is important: Instances should be short, to the point, and for a specific goal. Set piece adventures should be epic, fairly long and involved. Sitting around killing mobs for the heck of it should lead to diminishing returns.
6) Tradeskills should be challenging but not boring. The idea that you need to pound your keyboard to scap in order to gain a level in a tradeskill is stupid. Make the items created by tradeskills useful, and fun, and tradeable. Don't make them worthless, allow them to be sold to vendors and other players. Use them to stimulate a game economy.
7) Make Guild Halls fully costomizable. Make player residences fully customizable. Make player clothing at least somewhat customizable.
8) Make NPC's interactive. Nothing irritates me more than seeing a dozen npc's standing around and all of them sell the same things and none of them will talk to you. If nothing else, have all NPC's choose from a list of random simple tasks which they would like done, or have tradeskill vendors that ask you to go get items for them to use as raw materials or to sell.... make them truely interactive in the simplest way you can.
9) Have the NPC's say things. Walk around. Guards should hail travelers, Barkeeps should ask what customers are drinking, random people should have something to say, even if it's a canned greeting.
10) Discourage PVP in all it's forms. I hate PVP. If you must have PVP, put it on it's own server and NEVER let it come to any ohter servers.
11) Make communication between players easy. Make trading easy. I liked the post office idea in Vanguard.
In closing, I'd like to suggest that you plagerize heavily from City of Heroes and City of Villains. You could learn a lot from them.
That's where I've been for the last year, and unless EQ shapes up, I'm not coming back any time soon.
In my opinion it should be, real time combat, without target lock, without auto-attack and probably skill based and probably with directional attacks, I mean, real directional attacks and defense. In the sorecery side, probably the same, aiming of spells without target lock, carefull use of area of damage spells and so on.
Well, just an idea.
They should take a little from each game.
asheron's call still has the best class system. you choose what you want , and put exp points into the skills you want, no two characters are the same. Anarchy online does the same type of this. but you have to choose a class then you add points as you level into what skills you want this could work for eq maybe.
Horizons crafting . was so much nicer then any game. you harvest, which takes time. but then you craft fast you could make 100 of an item if your weight allowance would allow. in seconds. so you don't have to spend days crafting. plus building houses and businesses was neat, hire npc to sell the items you made ect. oh and the class system horizons had was cool. you could choose many classes and multi class lots of them. the more you had the harder to level. but was nice. kinda like the AD&D days but you start off a warrior and add a cleric in 10/10 levels you could become a paladin. and even add a mage to it. get some stills from each class. again making every one different .
Right now on EQ 1 on this new server every one make a character and we're all the same as each other in the same class. same gear. all stats maxed out same spells. only possible difference is race. and since most level the same way only raid gear will make us different. in asheron's call and anarachy online plus horizons it's almost im possbile to be the same from lvl 1 to end game. skill based leveling would be nice to see in EQ
darkfall i guess has the skill based skill idea but it really need more to it. just hate repeating the same thing over and over for hours just to improve a skill. EQ would have quests to help i'm sure.
EQ2 has a lot of good things. i just hate the heroic thingy. love the housing but would be more fun having to harvest matieral and build it our selves with guild mates. making whole guild towns like horizons game does. could be fun.
i'd really like to see a warhammer type of instance pvp combat. so when we don't want to pvp we just stay out of the instances and play normal. but for those who like to pvp once and awhile , having missions and conquoring type of pvp instance could be fun. could be race based. or good vs evil. or just make guild , or raid type everyone can join que and when enough are in teams made up auto wise. throw a color banner on every one so you know what team your on and go fight.
so much more from other games i could say. but just home from work and i have a bad head ache....
Completely agree.
Take out long raiding. There is nothing more frustrating than trying to get a piece of equipment for the 80th time because their are 40 others in the raid rolling for the same thing. PLEASE take out the emphasis on gear too. One of the major drawbacks (IMO) of most MMO's these days is the massive emphasis on gear. It make players greedy and self centered and ruins the feel of a community.
In the original EQ your gear turned heads based on the color you dyed it. The community was great! VERY helpful in answering questions about how to get places for newcomers, where certain items dropped, how to defeat certain mobs, and just general discussion was enjoyable...like an MMO SHOULD be. Most MMO's now put TOO MUCH emphasis on gear. I understand that today's kids are spoiled rotten with whatever they want because most parents are career oriented and occupy their kids with gifts instead of their time, but let's not continue that rend in MMO's...PLEASE.
What made EQ great was the difficulty of it and the community. As the quoted above said, gaining a level felt like an accomplishment. And even after gaining that level, getting a comfortable amount of experience into that level was exciting because you knew if you died early into the level you could de-level again. Having to run back to your corpse to loot your items...although at times could have the potential of being frustrating...to me was more fun than anything because it too was fun and challenging trying to accomplish.
Sony....take a good long look at EVE Online, just from the "learning curve" and difficulty standpoint. EVE has one of the most docile and helpful communities I have seen in MMO's SINCE EQ. Why? They didn't bend to cookie-cutter easy mode whines.
Look at World of Warcraft now. Millions of subs? Sure, but at the cost of being able to make top level in a couple of weeks, WAY TOO MUCH emphasis on gear (any moron with purple gear can kill anyone without it), easy quests (too many "Kill/Collect X amount of X" quests), and one of the worse communities I have ever seen in any MMO to date.
So to shuffle through all my blathering, if you want something truly great (IMO) :
ADD:
- Great storyline
- Less Raid grind
- Less emphasis on gear
- No instances or super fast transportation (Make the world FEEL big)
- Great crafting with actual purpose...in turn...
- Great economy system
- DIFFICULTY
- Slow leveling system
- Lots of classes and races with purpose, not just "coolness" factor
- NO PVP...or give them their own servers at least. Just not zones that allow PvP on PvE servers, because some idiots always XFer over just to be jerks.
I wish I could think of a sure fire way to keep gold farmers at bay as well....not only would it make the game play more enjoyable by not getting 1000 bad english spams, but I'd be rich too! =P
DAOC PvP rocked? If you enjoy ganking and exploits sure. And the farce of the RvR, where one realm almost always dominated the other two. Of course, when I played it originally, they had forgotten to INCLUDE RvR as the game wasn't ready when released, and the PvP was very laughable (heal bots, etc). I remember the swarms of people all /stuck on each other, making it look like a writhing mass of poo.
BTW, Mordred is populated by about 7 people nowadays, while the PvE only server has over 100.... what does that tell you about your beloved PvP in DAOC?
Yeah, their really is no good PvP in any game. Closest I have seen is EVE PvP. At least there it requires a knowledge of almost every ship class to know what tactics to use when faced by them because it DOES matter. You can also get even fights quite a bit where it can go either way.
Most PvP games these days is high levels ganking low levels, group zone raping, or high levels again ganking lowbies, and then running at the first sign of a possible challenge from high levels coming to the lowbies rescue. And these are the same people who are nasty on the forums and talk smack in game...it's sad. It also stagnates the community with idiotic players and chat dribble. PvP is a joke. Keep it on the consoles where it belongs (HALO, CoD, Battlefield, etc.).
See what Vanguard : Saga of Heroes should have been at release ?? That's what I'd like the next EQ to be like !
Im positive there will be PvP in the next EQ. :) FFA PvP at that!
DAOC PvP rocked? If you enjoy ganking and exploits sure. And the farce of the RvR, where one realm almost always dominated the other two. Of course, when I played it originally, they had forgotten to INCLUDE RvR as the game wasn't ready when released, and the PvP was very laughable (heal bots, etc). I remember the swarms of people all /stuck on each other, making it look like a writhing mass of poo.
BTW, Mordred is populated by about 7 people nowadays, while the PvE only server has over 100.... what does that tell you about your beloved PvP in DAOC?
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Your referring to numbers 8 years after it was released? Although the clusters still have numbers, low server pops but it's all combined in the cluster so not bad. Add in the fact they are working on merging all into one server aside from Mordred and the CO OP server Ghaeris , should be a nice healthy and fun server. Yeah we all hated the bots, but it was still lots of FUN... and there in lies the keyword... FUN.
I'm sorry you couldn't hold your own on the full pvp servers. I know the 8 man gank squads towards the end were abit annoying and took alot of the fun away... it was still hella fun /shrug
As goatgod posted :
ADD:
- Great storyline
- Less Raid grind
- Less emphasis on gear
- No instances or super fast transportation (Make the world FEEL big)
- Great crafting with actual purpose...in turn...
- Great economy system
- DIFFICULTY
- Slow leveling system
- Lots of classes and races with purpose, not just "coolness" factor
- NO PVP...or give them their own servers at least. Just not zones that allow PvP on PvE servers, because some idiots always XFer over just to be jerks.
I wish I could think of a sure fire way to keep gold farmers at bay as well....not only would it make the game play more enjoyable by not getting 1000 bad english spams, but I'd be rich too! =P
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Great idea's there. As much as I love PVP in MMo's if done right ........ I think they should keep it like original EQ and have pvp only servers. I don't think EQ would have been as magical if you had it on the PVE servers although I can't say that honestly as it could have been a nice twist? Think rushing Temple of Veeshan having to fight other guilds to get to mobs? Fun yeah? get old and frustrating... hmm yeah.. keep it for PVP only servers I think.
I think if they took EQ 1 revamped the graphics engine, took the ability to fly from Vanguard, Kept it where you only need 24 friends(or less) for raids from eq2, armor custimization from Aion! EQ 1 would take over the world!!!
Bring "an innovative, outside of the MMO box look at Norrath"? Hardly.
"bring the world of Norrath to a new generation of players, as well as the dedicated legions of fans who made the EverQuest franchise timeless." sounds to me like "we'll make something that appeals to every, hardcores and casuals.
Like someone already mentioned "EQ meets FreeRealms".
Edit: what a hot girl at Smedley's side!!
All I can say is to just take the current EQ and put a new face on it. Basically upgrade the graphics to be more current but still not require the most powerful machine on the planet.
EQ, as it is now, has become fantastic. I just recently returned to it and am shocked with how much it has improved with the mercenaries and the ability to loot nice gear without the need to raid or group. With just me and my friend, each using a mercenary, we can kill groups of red con mobs that we could never have handled with full groups in the past.
The game has become so much fun. And it has way more depth than most any other game on the market. Great job. Just upgrade those graphics and no other game could touch it the way it is now.
We shall see, we shall see.
I think one thing that everyone forgets that EQ had a blend, sorta-kinda, of Level + skill based gaming. If you were leveling a Wizard you had to level your Conjuring and Evocation, etc. You also needed to specialize at some point in one of the magic skills. So yes the leveling was slow and painful at times (sort of missed for some of us old timers) as you leveled your skills increased until they capped which made you hit harder and harder to hit, etc.
I think that todays games are missing some of that old school pen and paper style items in the game: spending stat/skill points (mainly this item) - which made people more attached to the toons. You also have to admit that the death experience in EQ 1 made for better players: you lose xp plus dropping your items.
At some point the games started to cater more and more to the casual gamer: mainly more and more solo game play. Another thing missing from games that EQ 1 had, forced grouping: yes it did suck if you couldnt get a group, kinda meant that gaming that night was a bust - but it also helped players meet eachother and not allow people to be totally anti-social. The forced grouping and slower leveling (ala the Hell Levels) helped weed out BAD players....something desperately needed in todays mmo's.
I guess I could sum up my statement into the future of MMO's will need to get back to the roots where grouping and guilding ruled the day and where dieing actually meant something, and something painful (no more dieing just to get back to the bind to avoid the run), and slow down the progression (add some hell levels).
Just my opinions...
Valid opinions and good observations. Sadly though, their aren't enough people that feel as we do to get a game headed back in that direction.
Since Blizzard introduced WoW, with it's SERIOUSLY easy game play to attract every moron with a pulse, mainly console players (I'm a console player too, but you know the type I mean), now every company has seemed to suddenly stop putting as much thought into original game mechanics, quests, etc, and more thought into how it can be like WoW...and failing miserably. They seem focused on the cash cow now solely, instead of cash AND making a great game. Or they listen to the whines of the WoW refugee majority and botch up a game that started out on the right foot (See AoC).
Too many of today's players seem to think having slow leveling or hard to get items, etc are not fun. God forbid you have to work for anything. They are too use to getting everything handed to them and fail to see that working for an item brings immense gratification. MMO's were meant to be long epic adventures, but this new generation keeps trying to push them closer and closer to console games with easy game play, fast leveling and gear acquirement, etc.
Sony, believe me when I tell you that if you make it like old EQ with updated graphics, and some new stuff added in on top of that, you WILL get a large grateful community. Don't let cash cloud your creativity, it will come regardless.
As if they will read this, but here's to wishful thinking lol.
new day , new thought.
i'd love to see the eq religion mean some thing. eq. a paladin is good alignment. and in D&D world could never group with evil alignments. . so make good clerics and paladins impossible to group with evil. and make shardow knights and evil clerics impossible to group with good alignment. hmm i'd guess necromancers are evil also, i think eq2 had the good vs evil classes thing. i'd like to see with.
even better since we might want to play with our friends who are evil or good. make the EXP bonus better if all good or evil. or even better if all same faith, or even if all from same town "starter town born wise"
i'd like to see EXP bonus for evil characters killing good mobs if not in a group with good and vice-versa. just make picking our race and faction religion worth picking.
the more choices the more individual we will feel. more fun this way and more satifaction with question. picking groups. leveling.
i also agree with time concuming leveling. the game should take a year to get to make level casual playing wise.
eq1 took me 2 weekends just to get to 15th level. before POK came out.
one thing i hated about eq1 but was changed and i love it now. was we had a lot of levels that we got nothing but hp and mana for no spells. now we get at least one spell per lvl . this makes lvling a level worth it.
i'd like to see the AA thing early on. make it kinda the same as it is now but let us get a less version of the AA's at lower levels with less time on the benfit or spell or longer reuse time. eq2 i think we get AA's at level 11. and aa's are gained by quests vs mob killing i like that, as the game is everquest. so i think it would be great to have AA's based on quests, mabe some from mob killing. like reaching 100 kills of one type 500, 1000, 5000, 10000 ect. i think eq2 has something like that.
oh and let hope they beta test the hell out of it. we don't need a failed launch like vanguard. i like vanguard a lot of neat idea. but was missing so much and crashed way to much the first month.
test it and test it again with more players and then again and a again. 6 months of testing till you have 1000 beta testers on same sever enjoying the game , then launch it. and KILL WOW
I would also like the quests to be simular to what you had in the begining of EQ. No exclamation points. Part of an adventure was finding these quests.
And please put me down for beta testing. I was a trouble shooter for NEC for 20 years. Thanks for asking for our input reguarding this game. Looking forward to hearing more about this.
YES! This is something I forgot to mention.
Most of the fun of EQ was finding not only hidden areas, but hidden NPC's that offered quests. I found nothing more irritating and bland than when MMO's started adding big exclamation points above NPC's heads. On top of that, having fantasy GPS on the map to show you where every quest is...for a lack of better words, sucked.
It was always more fun to be given hints, maybe even with possible landmarks added into those hints and finding it on your own. PLEASE don't add exclamation points and GPS to everything. Leave in some of the mystery and adventure. MMO's are suppose to be an adventure, not packman with dots to lead you to everything.
I have to agree with the GPS style that questing has turned into over the last few years being really poor. Gameplay is getting reduced to clicking on an npc, clicking the accept button, run to the premarked spot on the map and killing or clicking on whatever is at that location.
Some real quests would be nice again, but I think the age of spoiler sites has pretty much done away with the mystery aspect of mmos.
True.....to a point. When I played EQ back in the day those sites existed already. I ONLY used them if after several days of attempting a quest and still wasn't able to figure them out. THEN I'd peak to get a hint of what I was missing. It's all about a person's own willpower and self control on if they want to do as I did, not use them at all, or use them all the time and then bitch on the forums how the quest sucked...even though it was more than likely because they brought it on themselves lol.
Reading through a lot of these posts and it sounds like what WAS in Vanguard at the early stages. No quest floaties, rumor system really good stuff.
Could not tell you why that all went away. Have no clue other than happened right about the time SOE got involved in the background and then it was anounced right after these HUGE SWEEPING changes came through the game.
Personally, I would like to see something OUTSIDE of the sword and Board play. There were some great PnP games in the past that would really work well in an MMO. Traveller, Space Opera, hell even Paranoia would be a good game to see in an MMO community. Paranoia would be so freaking funny that people would laugh until they dropped. Who cares that your character dies alot, you would laugh so hard that you would not care!
Also, on top of regular quests, PLEASE be sure to add in the good ole epic quests for class specific items again. Those were tedious, but fun and rewarding at the same time. Random world events would be awesome as well. Dedicate a team to just that if possible.
I remember being a young woodelf ranger just returning to Kelethin after a quest...I was at the bottom of the elevator leading to the city when suddenly someone yelled "ORC RAID!". I thought they were being goofy, but I turn around to see dozens of orcs cresting the hill! I jumped on the elevator , got to the top, and started launching arrows from the city while others fought them off. That was one of many moments from EQ I will remember forever. It was GREAT! Why? Because it wasn't scripted.
Those kinds of things on (If even only) a monthly basis would be spectacular.
Add in the boats to travel again. Except this time, make them much bigger and add things to do on the ships while in transit. This way, not only will it make the world feel big, but it will still give players things to do. Such as...
- The puzzle game like EQ had while traveling.
- Bars on the ship where players can get drunk, possibly bar fight NPC's.
- Possible sea creature attacks at sea.
- Randomly generated storms at sea.
- Pirate attacks - To add to this, make the ships defensive cannons accessable to players to help defend. (Same for sea creature attacks)
- Merchants on the ships. Maybe even player merchant slots for them to sell their wares.
- Fishing off the sides of the ship.
I'm sure others can add to this.
Whatever they do, I hope it's a powergamers' / hardcore's / sandboxer's paradise. Hopefully it would draw in the majority of that crowd. Not only am I sick and tired of their incessant whining about today's "dumbed down" and "carebear" MMOs, but I'm tired of them ruining casual MMOs with their constant demand for exclusive hardcore content and special rewards.
Oh, I have a good idea of why. (I was in Vanguard Beta)..........subscriptions and money.
Most companies now just look at WoW (Which isn't good) and see a cash cow and try to duplicate it. I don't think most of them look at what impact it has on the players or the game itself. They just see what worked for one company and try to do it as well....and usually fail miserably.
WoW is NOT the mold everyone should be striving for. It's just a large scale console game IMO. WAY TOO EASY and linear, outrageously overpowered gear, helen keller accessible quests (! and dots to show you where to go. where is the fun in that? where is the adventure?), etc. The list could go on.
Everyone needs to stop trying to copy Blizzard or BE Blizzard and use independent thought. I'm not saying some features can't be mimicked to a degree if they are good ones, but not everything like the GPS quests, etc. The easier a game is, the more idiots it pulls in. Just look at WoW.....and the community can be a games downfall just as much as it's content and game mechanics.
Totally agree.
Seems to me that most recent mmos are all of the same ilk. Call it what you like, the fact is they don't seem to have the level of depth, involved mechanics or content that the 'original' games like EQ1 had.
I can totally understand companies wanting to 'jump on the bandwagon' and try to steal a portion of wow's player-base by making games that would be familiar to wow players. Problem is, there's so many companies doing that that the player-base just moves onto the next game after a month or two and subs tend to drop away..
I still hold out hope that one day a company will dare to make a game that designed to cater to a smaller, more specific market (- 90% of the people posting in this thread seem to want the same thing.) Establish a loyal fanbase and I'd think there was a chance of keeping more long-term subscriptions.
Just my opinion.
I still hold out hope that one day a company will dare to make a game that designed to cater to a smaller, more specific market (- 90% of the people posting in this thread seem to want the same thing.) Establish a loyal fanbase and I'd think there was a chance of keeping more long-term subscriptions.
Just my opinion.
Its all about the money, small fan base doesn't pay the bills.
Its all about the money, small fan base doesn't pay the bills.
Then explain to me how CCP (Crowd Control Productions) manages it with EVE Online.
They have maybe a bit over 250,000 subscriber's. The game has been on the market for 6 + years, AND it has a VERY steep learning curve, yet, they keep churning out expansions material, improving the game in other ways, and receiving more subscriber's. Oh, and because of that learning curve and the long period of time it takes to become a decent player in the community, they have one of the tamest communities I have experienced, full of helpful people like old EQ.
So as far as I'm concerned, your comment is null and void of any legitimacy. I'm not ragging on you, just stating a fact through observation and proof that mirroring everyone else isn't the only route to success. Success can come on many levels other than just "jumping on the bandwagon".
goat i think eq1 and eq2 would be good base to do an expension a la cataclysm the problem with this game is they would have to close server and probably relaunch game.
and thats the easy part
the technology soe used in the past for eq1 and eq2 probably cant evolve as wow evolve i bet if soe could have done it i bet they would have done it 5 years ago when wow debuted.
one day we ll probably see eq 1 and 2 remade one day but it wont be sony ,unless they re too lazy to upgrade ,it could be say the techno is there but they have to remoove a software they worked very hard to put there.
it like my old boss it costed him 50k to hire a programer for his computer etc long ago
he knew he could have a good software that could do 1000 time better what he was doing by grunting but he told me
he wasnt going to trash 50 k that easylly even tho he works 30 hour a week more he still use that program today
so here it might be this case if it costed x $ for sony and they still are paying for it even thot they could upgrade with the push of a button they might not be willing to part with that old software that costed an arm and a leg to put in there
I'm sorry, but you lost me. I think we are on two different subjects unless I missed something.
Are they planning to "update" existing game software (EQ1 and/or 2)? Or doing an totally new game based on Norrath?
Either way, they don't have to follow the trend and make another cookie-cutter game to be successful. Actually, making something engaging and different would be more successful than anything else because it would attract tons of people looking for "something different". Go to any game forum "newcomer's" area and you can find tons of people saying that they were tired of "X" game because it was the same old crap, etc.
Also, who is to say Sony hasn't had a team working on this game for months/years already? Or if my first question is the case, working on just that? Besides, I think Sony can overlook 50k if they wanted pretty easily. It's Sony...as multi-billion dollar company. Plus it's outdated technology that more than likely cant be upgraded. Even people that build their own rigs (like me), that don't have tons of cash know that you can only upgrade some of your rig so far before you KNOW you have to trash a particular part for new technology...and you do it, not because you want to, but because you HAVE to to continue on.
Sorry there,
EQ1 and EQ2 run on completely different engines,
the engine of EQ2 is very evolved, though they bet on the wrong horse for the future technology.
Atm they are rebuilding the engine and its throwing of its fruits.
- Shifting parts to Multi core
- Shadows on GPU in stead of CPU
- Next update Shaders 3.0 in stead of 1.0
Ortahr.
Its hard to say what the new EQ would be and if it will be an EQ extension or something re-imagined. We 'may' be getting back to Old School game play. I believe people are getting dulled by the instant gratification. Would we see another Risk vs Reward style game like the original EQ, I'm not so sure.
As it stands now there is such a small demographic of players that would buy into an 'earn as you learn' game as EQ was. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.
Ugh, lets hope not.
It would be interesting to get some background on how SOE conducts business. Its easy for us to get frustrated, irritated and totally boggled by the decisions that are made. I'd love to see an open forum with SOE Dev's and allow players to ask questions, provided it doesn't violate any antitrust laws or intellectual property rights. There has to be a reason why they make the decisions they do despite the fact that we may totally disagree with it.
I have said it before, but this new 'EQ' will very likely have more in common with games like CO in terms of gameplay... ez mode solo quest grinding with 'optional' grouping.
All paid for with a Pay to Achieve Item Mall.
Am I gonna hang around to watch what is left of the legend of EQ get turned into nothing more then a sterile virtual market space that exists purely to entice the stupidly gulliable into buying pretend magic swords for their pretend paper dolls with their real pocket money?
No. Screw that.
I expect nothing more of SOE then a exploitative cash in on the brand name of a once great game. They have no respect for games and only derison for anything that dosent make them the top dollar. The way this company conducts it's business actually disgusts me tbh.
"Am I gonna hang around to watch what is left of the legend of EQ get turned into nothing more then a sterile virtual market space that exists purely to entice the stupidly gulliable into buying pretend magic swords for their pretend paper dolls with their real pocket money?"
How is that ANY different than paying a monthly subscription, also, when it is totally optional when it comes to using a cash shop who gives a flying f***...
The entire, "I HAVE to use the cash shop or my character will not be able to compete...waaah..." rant is tired.
And most importantly you don't want to be bitter about it.
Friend, you surely understand the difference between PLAYING to achieve and PAYING to achieve?
And to answer your thoughtfully posed question, people who want real games over retarded virtual market spaces probably give a flying ****.
For a more "In-depth" post on some things that I, as well as some others I'm sure, would love to see AND not see in Everquest Next.
Things to see:
1. Great storyline. I'd imagine this shouldn't be an issue considering the vast amount of lore found in EQ and EQ2 already to play off of. So no more on this.
2. Quests with a deeper purpose. It would be great to see quests with deep story lines and real purpose behind what you are doing. Not just some quickly fabricated garbage just to give you something to do. Also, quests that may lead to other discoveries and quests. Maybe multiple replies possible, leading to different quest routes or rewards even. Maybe even reputation hits depending on your actions.
Example: Visiting a town, you see a woman with her head in her hands crying. You approach and start a conversation to find out what is wrong. She mumbles through her tears that her husband and son went on a hunting trip in the nearby woods of kithicor earlier in the day, but had not returned and she fears the worse. Here you are given 3 choices for a response...1. "I'm sorry for your troubles, best of luck." Leave her to her woes. 2. "I can try and locate them for you, what are their names?" 3. "I can locate them for you, for a price." Woman's responses...1. Sobs louder as you walk away. Reputation hit. 2. "Thank you! I promise you a great reward upon their safe return!" 3. "Thanks you!", but only offers a small sack of platinum for your troubles.
However, you could add in twists such as you get to the woods and only find the boy hiding in an old hollowed out oak tree shaking in terror. The boy tells you his father was dragged off into the thickets by undead as dusk hit. Here you can simply take the boy back to his mother and be done with it, or take him back and return to see about the fathers fate as well. From here you can even branch it off again, and again.
3. Deep crafting system with purpose. Make items WORTH taking the time to gather materials for and crafting them. Make them WORTH people buying in the bazaar (If you add that feature again, which I know I personally would LOVE to see). Nothing more annoying than crafting fodder just to get to the good items. Make everything from the get-go worth it. Thus, making gathering materials to use, or to sell worth it. Make crafted items worth more, and better than world dropped items. (Except Epics of course).
FYI: Look at Vanguard's crafting system for an insight on how to make crafting engaging and not monotonous. (With some tweaks of course).
4. A BIG and open world. Most MMO's these days seem very restricted and linear in design (I.E. Age of Conan). Although I know it is somewhat tedious, a world with care put into it, where you can give directions based on landmarks to new players would be fantastic (I.E. Age of Conan). Not simple "copy and paste" landscapes. (I.E. Original EQ and/or World of Warcraft).
5. Intelligent AI. Nothing worse than seeing NPC's standing around waiting for you to pick a fight and do them in. Give them paths! Multiple paths in most cases to make them less predictable. Make LoS for them not only when casting or using ranged attacks, but when they see comrades engaged as well (I.E. Age of Conan...to a point. STILL broken to a degree there.) And having them drop items that fit the mob would be a nice bonus. Never understood how a bear drops a 2-handed sword, unless he ate it and painfully passed it upon death.
On the bear subject, here is where a quest could come into play when you find an arm holding a map on it. (eaten)
6. Gear repair needs. Make gear wear out over time, eventually needing completely replaced. This helps as far as crafted gear is concerned. Also, makes for a stronger in-game economy. This could even be a part of a blacksmiths job. So not only making gear brings in funds, but repairs as well.
7. Boat travel back again! BIG ships and long rides. But add stuff on the ships to do while in transit. Like the game you could open in EQ to play while traveling, bars where characters can mingle and get drunk...maybe even bar fight (ala AoC). Have pirate attacks at sea players can participate in to attempt to repel them, even man the ships cannons. Sea creature attacks at random.
8. A partial play off of #7. Random world events once in awhile. It would be SWEET if you could dedicate a team to just this function. Random city raids by NPC bandits, etc. Packs of wolves attacking small villages, attacks at sea, etc. You did it in EQ (Not sure on EQ2, didn't play it), DO IT AGAIN! It was a great change once in awhile to see!
9. Solid naming policy. I HATE seeing names like "1337DuD3" or "Legolasss" Inevitable, but you CAN minimize it. But they aren't my main issue..it's the names like "dfjghjwer" (A.k.a. Gold farmer). You KNOW they are farmers, so don't allow them to even be entered in the first place. I realize a lot of companies allow it and SAY they are combating it, which is true...to a degree. But I'm sure a few hundred accounts are banned to make it "look" like something is being done...but we all know that each time they get banned, they buy another, giving you more pocket money. So probably wasting time with this one.
Thing NOT to see:
1. Two million "Kill X amount of X creature", "Collect X amount of X item" quests. Some here and there is ok, but not so many it becomes a grind, and seethes of obvious laziness and lack of creativity.
2. Crafting system with no real purpose. Low level crafting fodder.
3. Dumb AI, as mentioned in #5.
4. Over emphasis on gear dependency.
5. Instances and instant transportation around every corner (Planes of Power anyone?)
6. World chat. PLEASE no! Zones chats are cool (If you go with zones instead of one seamless world.). World chat KILLS immersion. I'm sure some will disagree with this.
7. Unwanted group classes. PLEASE be sure to take lots of time to make sure each class can work effectively with another. No one likes spamming for a group for somewhere for hours. Inevitable...but thought I'd throw this out there.
8. Gold farmers/sellers. I know there isn't a fool proof way to do this, but I know some people will laugh and wish it the same as I do.
9. 1337 names. Guild names.
You have been crited for 10,000 wall of text damage! You have died. Now loading....
Notice how he dosent even call it 'EverQuest III'?
SOE are already distancing the original game from the brand... This is gonna be really tragic to watch.
Its all about the money, small fan base doesn't pay the bills.
The Dev houses have really got you fooled eh? :P
Theres is a world apart between making a profit, which is well and good, and profiteering, which isnt.
SOE are profiteerers, no doubt.
I think much of what made the original eq great still works. Huge world, varied races, varied classes. Remove the autoattacks. Every attack should be a keypush. And since there are no autoattacks make sure you have a decent amount of regular attacks, but dont overdo it like what happened in eq2. Keep the macros. Lotro lost a lot by removing the ability to macro. Crit chains like in vanguard are a good thing. I have mixed feelings about multiplayer combos like in lotro. I think it is a good concept but in lotro it never had a really good feel to it. Maybe they just didnt get it right.
I knew this was coming back when we heard SOE was hiring lead developers for a new "Flagship Project".
Hearing SOE and flagship project immediately made me go "Oh they are making EQ3". Only time and luck will answer as to what it will be.
Alexis
*smiles*
Friend, you surely understand the difference between PLAYING to achieve and PAYING to achieve?
And to answer your thoughtfully posed question, people who want real games over retarded virtual market spaces probably give a flying ****.
Read it again, you can do it...
It's going to be Freerealms with an Everquest skin designed for both consoles and PC to play together, i can just see it...
I think a new EQ should keep most of the world from the first 2 games. The system needs to be very different howeverbecause we already played the old system for more than 10 years, it is time for something new.
Here is some of the things I would have done if I was the lead designer:
Cut out hitpoints. Or basicly put them on armours and or magic spells. To get hit by a weapon is always bad and it should be consequences for that. To be hit on the armour however is cool and it takes a lot of damage to go through a plate armour. Hitpoints is stupid since even naked characters can take a lot of punishment, hp is just an old rest from the D&D game.
Less attacks and a more realistic combat system. Funcom nailed half of this thing with the idea that you hit whatever your sword hits. Make it so that depending how strong you are the oponent often stop the swords when you hit them but a strong oponent can hit several people if they are standing right and some better control over the swings and combat would be a lot more fun. We don't need 50 different attacks for combat to be fun.
Better crafting. Making an item should be more like creating a character. Depending on your skills and the materials you have you should be able to design the item both with abilities and looks.
Less mining. Mining is the dumbest MMO thing ever. Heard of any hero who ever mined the metal for his own sword? Well some dude might have but in most cases the metal comes from a large mine. Have the heroes to do quests like caravan guarding or something instead, it makes a lot more sence. To collect rare herbs is ok but the common herbs make no sense either. Players should only have to collect rare things that are hard to get, if any peasant can grow it they will and will sell it rather cheap.
Guildhall+. The guildhalls of EQ2 is a nice idea but a guild should be able to build in from scratch like in Stronghold and dungeon keeper.
Non linear quests. All quests have to be completed in the same way but there are more ways than one to do something. You don't have to kill a bad guy to get something he have you could by it, threaten him, steal it or even make a fake copy to give to the questgiver. Biowares old Neverwinter nights showed the way to how you handle this kind of things.
No friggin go and kill 20 monster quests. I can grind without quests. Quests should be interesting like the HQ quests in EQ2, long things with good reward. Being a postman or rodent hunter is not anything for heroes, I rather have fewer and better written quests.
More character options, less item orientation. Loot is important in MMOs but it is a bit too important in EQ 1 & 2. To spend some more time on character development instead and make the item less powerful is a good idea. In real life items are good but not nearly as good as skills are. Make the character 75% and the items 25% or so. You can even have some character development things that are dropped by bosses, like when you capture skills in Guildwars.
Less levels. Really, 20 or 25 levels are enough and stop adding more levels in every expansion. More achivement is fine but the adding of more levels just kills of the older part of the game. 20 or 100 levels is really not any different as long as it takes the same time to reach the top. Too many levels will just hurt the gameplay. Or get rid of them totaly, look on pen and paper games like Runequest. More levels doesn't make the game more fun.
A formula for how good items can be. Have one for regular, treasured, legendary, fabled and for each tier of the raid items. And have cost on all the abilities. This will ensure that you don't make the items useless from the old part when you release an expansion and it will make the game live longer without killing of certain areas. It will also ensure that items are on the same power and that some doesn't totaly stink.
Smarter monsters. Gray monster shouldn't just ignore the player, they should run away from him and if attacked try to get away. You shouldn't be able to pull one of the gurds without the other one notice that you are killing his buddy within line of sight. Bosses should try to flee unless the are cornered when they have no chanse to win. The mobs have been as stupid in any game since EQ and it is time it should be changed.
As for minigames it could be fun to have some like poker at the tavern (or guildhouse), throwing knifes and so on. Thats fun but not for crafting since you will do the same thing a lot and it stops being fun rather soon.
I really don't care if I have to play the game on my PS3 even if Pc is my first choice for MMOs. What is important i that the game will have to differ from the first Eq but still be fun. For all I care they could keep Norrath exactly the same as in EQ 1 or 2 but the system needs to change a bit too make it more fun. It is ok to keep the highest places for NPCs but players should be able to affect the world around them also, maybe entering the freeport council. The combat needs to be more fun and interactive this time, less pushing the same buttons in a specific order and more about doing things at the right moment.
I actually think EQ3 could be a bigger game then Wow but then SOE will have to think out of the box and do what they did with EQ: Create something new and fun to play. If they on the other hand just make the graphics better with the same old gameplay the game will never be bigger than 200K subs.
All good thoughts. The mini games part caught my eye. Poker like the dice game in The Witcher is what came to mind. I do think that would be a good addition. I would add that a new EQ should not stray to far from the basic lore.
Of course not, it is the lore that makes the game EQ, not the system. Otherwise would Vanguard be EQ3.
Of course not, it is the lore that makes the game EQ, not the system. Otherwise would Vanguard be EQ3.
I like a lot of what you post Loke, but I'm thinkin your wrong here.
The lore in EQ is, imo, pretty generic cod fantasy and tertiary to what defined classic EQ. It wasnt a play retainer at all as far as I could see. It was always the play systems to me that made it a special experiance. The not-so-secret sauce of EQ to me was aways defined by it's design, not it's lore. And I say that as a loyal fan to the classic game.
I get what you are chasing for in your list of ideas, but I think that you should be wary of straying too far from it's core system build rather then worrying about the lore. For instance, if LotR had EQs social drivers designed into it's play, rather then being a solo centric ez mode quest grinder, then I would be playing that right now. The lore is almost irrelevant to the play experience, past art direction, to most people.
Again and again people say it was the challenging co-op community based play that made EQ the better game for them, and you only get that by core play system design in a MMORPG.
Also, Vanguard IS EQ3 ;)
Perhaps we'll learn a little more at PAX.
Only wish I was going :(
Personally, I think the title 'EverQuest' meaning should strictly be game style, absent or unbound to a single world, as the dungeons and dragons rules and manuals are apart from the dozens created worlds and campaigns for these guidelines to exist in.
This doesn't mean the same exact same game in a complete new world, but a game with the same existing elements in a new world. ( I'm sure we all can agree that EverQuest 1 has room for improvements. ) I know what to expect when I throw Final Fantasy in the xbox, and I would like to have the same expectations to know what to expect when I log into a EverQuest game.
Things to keep
I would really like it to keep the required level of cooperation that existed between players in eq 1, that in it self makes the game truly unique.
The mundane style of adventuring, everyone pulling together to complete a single task.
Norrath no more!
I say trash the Idea of Norrath and doing somthing else because trying to build a new game thats different, yet still the existing old world is stupid because the world in the new game is going to be nothing like the world in the old game, so just give it a different name. Like the Norrath in eq1 compared Norrath to eq2, It blew up, it was the same, but at the same time it wasn't...
Players Hero's
One thing I really would like to see are classes have a chance to "branch" off in to seperate play styles, not neccessarly to make the class different from it self, but to make the classes and player characters feel more unique when joining a group or grouping with. Getting a group with 2 rogue's in it, is just getting a group with 2 of the same exact thing...its kinda lame. Much cooler to see 2 rogue's perform the same function in far different ways. Kind of like the wizard starting a fight off with a few light nukes vs the wizard that calmly waits for the right moment to let loose the mondo ice comet.
What I would like to see the Next EQ to be like.
I would like a housing system like SWG. This would give a since of ownership to the land we explore. Plus Neat rewards to put in our house.
Fun Clikies as Quest rewards here and there. LIke the EQ halloween event where you got the mask that turned you skellie. Good Times.
Make sure that Quests are an Optional thing. I hate how I have to do quests to get other things done. Balance the Amount of xp you get from the time it takes doing Quest A as it would take the time to kill a certain number of mobs. Like, Make quests at a not so slow pace and give a bit of xp. amounts of Xp, and make grinding mobs harder but worth a decent bit of xp.
and when the time comes to do an Elite, Heroic, Heritage or w/e you want to call it. you jump on the band wagon and do those cause they give neat stuff.
I wouldn't mind bring back the Camp style Grind. However with a Camp style grind you could do a neat feature for camps as you could do something like group controls area "Group 1 is Faction A" Group two would like that camp for the Named "Group 2 which is faction B" Can then challenge for that camp site. And of course winning challenges for camp sites could give a neat reward in its own. This would make Camp challenge more fun than your random pk attack.
Not sure what could be done about combat or ui.
I mean for Combat, i enjoyed EQ's camp styled combat. It was laid back. Though I enjoy face pace combat like swg and wow. AoC combat was eh. i wouldnt recommend that.
Keep the EQ music going the way it has always been. Its classic and its awsome.
I don't mind the zones myself. So keep that if you want.
thats about all i can think of atm
Now that I think about it, the coop community that existed in eq1 was only achieved because of how the game was designed. I think it was coincidents, rather then planned. adding anything to severely change the game would probably change the co-op community as well.
The game literally left players with fingers crossed to win solo fights, meaning a player is forced to rely on luck that never existed in the first place. This would make anyone insecure because no power exist to abolish it. Since security could not be found in ones self, it had to be found in others. Layman terms, incompetent player characters contributes to a co-op community.
This reflects all character progression, allowing for any easy solo content would probably make a huge impact on the co-op community. This includes fast and easy quest system.
I believe this is the main contributing factor to a powerful co-op environment. The other perks, such as corpse retrieval, unpredictable trade skills(lose your mats), being broke, all build and add character to the game and players.
No autoattacks. All attacks should require a keypress.
I've a hard time believing they're already at it. I was under the impression that Everquest 2 had aged very well and that it still had probably until the end of the decade. It's one of the MMOGs I play casually that inspire the least ennui, and it's pretty grinding-pressure free thanks to its mentoring system - and I've always found that really convenient - it allowed me to keep playing with friends even if they became more advanced in the game than I.
I was hoping there would be a little more information by now.
I'm hoping for 2 things from any future Everquest games.
1. Much better variety of armor - for example, robes. They all look the same in EQII -- just different colors or patterns on the same robe. I want real variety and customization.
2. Please don't cut the world up into such small zones. I could never really get far into EQII because of the small feeling I had from the zones. Just too many that were too small for my tastes.
I'm sorry, anything Smedley touches will be money centred and ultimately crap. Unfortunately. If they simply reproduced classed EQ with modern tech, it would be win.