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EVE Online : EVE Breaks Peak Concurrent User Record
Posted Jan 05, 2009 by Keith Cross
CCP has announced that the record for Peak Concurrent Users in EVE Online has been broken. The new record stands at 45,186 players.
What a great way to start out 2009--a new PCU (Peak Concurrent User) record of 45,186! While we've made tremendous serverside changes in the EVE Online infrastructure with the EVE64 and StacklessIO initiatives, it is truly a testament to our loyal fans that 5 years into EVE's existence we are still breaking records and more people are flying in New Eden than ever before.
We know we'll be trying to find leftover champagne from New Year's EVE to celebrate. When we do, we'll toast to you!
Read more here.
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Hum, apart from the increased number of adverts around the net, anyone know why the number have shot up?
After several huge PR disasters I'd have expected figures to have decreased significantly, not rise
I've seen a lot more chatter around here about EVE simply because of it's niche sandbox gaming style, something I am personally a huge fan of. People are tired of the status quo, and they are tired of waiting for a new sandbox game to hit, so they are giving EVE a try.
Let's face it, even with the occasional bad PR due to exploits or whatnot, the game is doing quite well and has a hardcore community. It's a game that does not try to cater to the WoW masses, and it makes no excuses for being a deep, difficult game. If it wasn't for the fact that you have to be a ship in this game (ambulation won't serve much purpose), you couldn't peel me away from it. I can't wait for a standard ground based MMORPG to come out that is similar to EVE. Niche market and all.
The first new sandbox game to successfully duplicate EVE's recipe will have my attention for years.
Where have you been, what PR disasters? Despite the critics, CCP continues to improve and balance the game. Seems that that is exactly what they playerbase wants. Certainly better than what most MMO's seem to offer these days.
The PR disasters have occured pretty much every other month since around august if memory serves me correctly
1) "Standardisation of timecodes" was what CCP called hiking the price of the game up, higher than any other mmorpg at that time, but no, they couldnt call it that. Most players over looked this however.
2)Removal of Ghost Training. One of the most appauling cases of customer service I have ever seen. Too much to go into detail here but the jist of it is: Removal of a known feature of the game, claiming it was a bug (Undenaible eveidence shows this to be a lie), leading to the game essentially costing more and becoming more unbalanced. Unfortunaly this out right lie to the customers upset the majority, who threated to quit over it, or at the least close accounts (would be intrested to see sub numbers after that date)
3)Quantaum rise being the most "empty" expansion to date, even after 2 cash hikes.
4)The starbase exploit. A massive exploit which has been in the game for years, yet was never detected and so has messed up the sandbox market, the effects will be felt for months and the market won't ever be the same again (literally)
5)CCP's back history of providing dire customer care, supplying ingame corps with ships etc
Due to the price of eve and after these demonstrations of their total lack of thought towards the customers other than seeing them as cash cows, I would have expected people to have stayed away from the game at all costs. However, I would like to see the actual amount of activated subscriptions on tranquility, especially after the price hikes.
Wow, even after drama CCP continues to increase the performance, balance and subscription numbers of EVE Online!?!
Is EVE Online the only game that has it's subscription base increase from year to year besides WoW?
Ien't there some equation that explains how the longer an MMO is on the market it inevitably loses a percentage of it's subscription base per year?
Gratz to CCP and Happy New Year!!
Also, I would love a ground based game themed around what CCP has done with EVE Online. Even if it were stations only or if I had to wait for the World of Darkeness...
Sweet! Five thousand more macro-operated ISK-farming bots and Rookie chat spammers!
Really, tell me when entering Jita (or any system with more than 200 players) is no longer a game-breaking lag-fest, and THEN I'll be impressed.
How are they hiking the price up when it's still $14.95? And a boxed copy is $19.95. Been that way for years.
Can't really complain about the content in an expansion when it's FREE!
EVE have grown larger because the game have become better, more balanced and more lagless.
When it comes to the "PR disaster", I would hardly call this true. Let me sum up some claims:
1. EVE TIME CODES:
Yes CCP changed the available timecodes to 60 days, and removed the 30 days and 90 days timecodes. Its sad but hardly a disaster. Also remember that you still can pay by subscription, and here you can sign up for 1 month, 3 months, 6 months and 12 months still. Anyway, sad, but hardly a PR Disaster!
2. GHOST TRAINING
The removal of Ghost training was applauded by many really. This because many people - me included - found it unfair that people who used this "feature" to gain ingame reward without a valid subscription! So in general it was unfair against paying subscribers as it was unfair against CCP who provides a product! I dont really care if it was a bug or a feature. It was unfair towards paying subscribers and it had to go! And so it does! Also, mainly those who used this feature where people who did character farming for sale plus others who just set longtime skill training and left the game. There are a few skills that take from 1 month to 3 months to train, when it comes to the most powerful skills! And by setting these skill to train, then leaving the game for a while saved them money while still gaining skillpoints. And I find that unfair! So yes, I am happy it got removed! And many others with me!
3. STARBASE EXPLOIT
Yes this is sad. 70 PLAYERS are confirmed cheating! 70 accounts have been banned! This is very sad! But a PR Disaster? CCP corrected the bug as soon they learned about it! And CCP banned the cheaters! What more can you ask for? CCP is not allmighty! When they find a bug or an exploit that have time after time proved they take it extreamly seriously! I dare say not many other game companies have been so free providing information as CCP have! And I personally think CCP earns on it over long time. They prove to be authentic and not false! They provide facts even if its what have happend is sad for the game! But again! You cant expect more from a gamecompany than to act as soon they learn about the exploit! And if there are anyone who should feel ashamed it should be the 70 players who cheated! Not CCP!!
4. DEV MISCONDUCT
The most tragic for CCP was when one of their devs cheated and gave his corp some ships and blueprints. It was one dev out of 300-400. As soon CCP learned about this they acted and reprimanded the dev in question. This happend about 6 months before the playerbase learned about it. So CCP acted before it got into public knowledge. This is something I can agree on a disaster for CCP. However! You cant put the blame on the whole company for this! CCP also reprimanded the dev, fixed his misdeeds and banned his character. And from this spun the now well known "CSM" or the "Counucil of Stellar Management" which is democratically elected players who attend meetings on Iceland at the CCP HQ pllus through internet meetings! We know that other devs or Mods have done misdeeds too at other onlinegames. its very sad, but in general: if the company is honest, they provide a game people love, is well balanced and are regularily updated, this is not a large case at all! Sad it is: it never affected your gameplay at all! And CCP solved it all! You cant really ask for more! Also remember: CCP is bound by the law when it comes to employee handling!
ADDED:
5: Expansion "Quntum rise"
The last expansion was not empty! It holded the very much appreciated "StacklessIO" networking layer, which made it possible to play the game at extreamly reduced lag! Now you could stack 1400 people in Jita without affecting the gameplay! 1400 people in one room or star system! THAT is an imrovement!!! Also, this made fleetwars MUCH more lagless too! And when EVE online broke the PCU this sunday, there where not one post on the forums complaining about lag! Not even in Jita!!! I cant hardly call this an empty imrovement... And what about the earlier graphich update for EVE? The whol graphich engine being completely rewritten! And the ships completely remade??? CCP provides great stuff still I would say!!!
Again: the game is a very good game. A sandbox game set in a open universe. it holds hundreds of starships and thousands of modules to play it. The game is very well balanced and CCP always provides great updates for it! CCP also have a knack of involving players into the evolvution of the game, not just in what they want but also on how the game should evolve. This through direct player contacts on forums but also through CSMs. CCP have made it more stable and with less lag! and updated the graphic layer and the networking layer!
To sum it up: CCP have brought a lot of great things to the game, which the players seems to very much enjoy!
On a personal note I will add there are no other gamecompany that is as playerfriendly as CCP. There are no other game which is so great as EVE! And while other new games are given birth, grows, wither and dies CCPs EVE online are steadily growing; a star on the sky always glowing bright!
From what i've read that was fixed long ago. I think they managed to push over 800 people in Jita with no lag.
http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=588
Checkout Darkfall. you will faint with delight.
It was the GTC that were hiked up in price to $35 a month, the most expensive MMORPG, whereas the yearly sub bit people hard when GT was removed.
I guess I don't understand why people would use the game time codes. If you have money to pay that then just get a monthly subscription. Quick and easy.
From what i've read that was fixed long ago. I think they managed to push over 800 people in Jita with no lag.
http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=588
They say it's "fixed" in virtually every patch note. The last time I logged in (just prior to the recent holidays) suggests otherwise.
Because CCP allows players to exchange GTCs for in-game currency (ISK). Think of it as a form of pseudo-sanctioned RMT (real-money-trade).
In short, if you've got enough in-game currency, you can "play to pay" for your account.
Well then I'm calling you becase they have massively increased loadbalancing and streamlined the servers so I have been in Jita with well over 300 with 0 Lag.
As for the PR Nightmares... most are a non issue to most players. The Ghost training sucked but the longer they left it the more people abused it. The Starbase thing was them finally getting on the ball and fixing things so nobody was exploiting a bug they allegedly said was ok, but now is gone. They raised the price of GTCs because it was loosing money in its prior form because the price to do the cards they way they did was not feasable. Besides, it is used far more often to legally buy ISK than not. Finally the last expansion may be hollow to you but the long ignored industrialists and miners got some very usefull tweaks, thanks to the representaion in the CSM. The problem with 2 employees helping their friends in game by abusing powers or privleged knowledge has LOOOONG since been dealt with. Even the Boot.ini problem, which only affected a few people with an uncommon system setup.
In all cases CCP has, in the long run, dealt with, although not always in the most poplular way, the problems that come up. Also in allot of the cases the majority of players have found it no big deal because it does not drammatically affect them.
CCP customer support has screwed me over a couple of times in ways that I don't want to get into, but even when they did it, I was given hearings all the way up the chain of command to the guys in charge. Even when they thought I was full of shit, they allowed me to submit a bug report and actually went through analyzing it twice before telling me that they found nothing and to drop it. No other game has gone that far when they didn't belevie me right off the bat.
1:Eve time codes
Putting the price up to $35 was rediculous, but I and others were not to bothered, after all the expansions were free.
2:Ghost training
don't understand how its unfair at all). As for the character faming claims, thats ludicrous, just bull by CCP as the outcry was from people developing alts, which are essential for every single player in Eve, not to sell, but to operate in the universe. Also, it was perfect for people with careers/ an active life (nothing implied), as I knew a lot of people in the military who found eve a great game to play. I found that with my degree i would need a few weeks out to work, so again, GT was great.
Some people applauded it, many more (check the forums) thought it was outrageous to remove a feature under the pretense of a bug after admins had mentioned it as a feature, and it was deliberatly kept in. Not to mention the timing (Just as Iceland felt the credit crunch) and the main story changing from the original to a totally different and rediculous idea. Apparently its to balance the game, yet you can buy characters with X amount of skill points, and the older players have had GT on their side for years. All it has done is put a set price on becoming good. Whereas in WoW, more you play, more you level, in Eve as you clearly know, its time based. Effectively this means you have to pay in execess of $300 to become good. For a game that is unbalanced (recon swarm anyone?), dated (WoW style attacking, with no location damage) and expensive, removing GT under false reasons was absurb and telling the customer that he is a fool that knows no better than what he is told. Plus it was unfair to no one, as everyone could do it (
End of the day, it was removed because it wasn't making CCP instant cash, not that it wasnt an incentive for people to join, that would have been the smart conclusion.
3.Starbase Exploit
Not wanting to get personal but you fail to understand the extent of this exploit. It allowed certain corperations to gain Billions of ISK, which would have been used to mess up the politics, not to mention the bug was active since POS' have been active. Personally, I find it worrying that CCP failed to notice this bug for YEARS, even with their Prof of Economics looking at it. Plus CCP had to be told via petition about it, meaning the bug would have been around for probably years longer if it hadnt been for the heads up. As for providing facts, they sure got that wrong with the GT story....still havn't admitted why they did it.
4.Dev Misconduct
It's simply unexcusable. The worker wasn't fired and he was messing around with the product he was selling. SImply absurd. The only reason they got away with it is because you dont meet them and vice versa. The CSM is also a joke, they have no power as they wanted the corps involved in the exploit mentioned, and CCP simply said no. Thats no council, thats a dictatorship.
As for Eve in general, coming from a player who was in a BoB allaince, happily set up in 0.0, it's a bad game. As a mate puts it, its math in space. The firefights come down to who has the most ships will almost always win (Blob warfare....fun.....
), the missions are useless, the levelling system is just a cash grab and the concept it broken. With no race restrictions, you see the same generic fleets flying around, hence why numbers matter, not skill. This also means that the entire storyline goes to hell as you can fly with whoever you want. Imagine in WoW if you could treat hoarde like alliance and vice versa. Pretty broken.
CCP employees ignore you or treat everyone as a fool (See the GT comments). All they want is your cash for a medicore, dated game which has little depth in teh combat (Point, click, F1-F5, wash, rinse, repeat). The game isn't expanding: don't be fooled, the real info is in the active subscriptions which CCP never release, as online players include trial accounts. If you want nothing but mindlessly flying around in a blind attempt to find fun, eve is for you. Or if you like scientific calculators. Then it's also for you
Not wanting to go on, but I sincerly believe CCP is ripping everyone off for a substandard game.
How were the cards not feasble? CCP were getting more money than monthly subs by using them
Non-issue? My entire corp has quit eve (20+) after all the rubbish chucked at them by CCP.
Boot.ini - unusual set up?
Actually anyone running xp who updated in the first few hour, I know mates who got screwed over by this and their set ups were as generic as pcs come.
Granted though the lag was sorted out, but that has taken far too long considering the revenue they were pulling in.
The funny thing is how the Wow lamers keep calling "free expansions" to something that is basically bugfixes + a couple of new ships.
Sigh....
Maybe its just me since I live in NYC but when I go to a store to buy a 2 month MMO game time card they charge me 34.95 for every game even Wow. Basically 30 bucks plus tax.
Stop bitching about 35 bucks and get a job maybe?
Not the only one but it's rare enough. It's the continual development and changing game world that does it I think. Check out MMOGcharts: http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart2.html
Runescape, Dofus and until recently Tibia have all shared the same trend. Even WoW's release didn't slow EVE's subscriber growth, it's like the markets for the two games don't overlap at all. And I can well believe they don't overlap, I've happily played both games at the same time before and neither ever provided the same gameplay experience.
And what if you can't get a job because your still in education??
Plus you missed the point completely with EvE. $35 won't do squat, you need 2 years to become any good in eve, so $420 please for a totally bland game if you don't want to supremly suck at it. Not to mention that cash goes to a company that doesn't care in the slighest about it's players, other than wanting to grab as much cash out of them as possible.
Without quoting him, I agree with Niccolado's post. CCP is a model company for other developers.
As for Jita lag, I was on Sunday and a corpmate in Jita said there were over 900 people there at the time, without lag.
So, out of curiosity, your totally willing to ignore the fact they lied to all their players, not once, but twice, amongst showing a complete incompetence when it comes to actually finding the real bugs, while charging a extortionate amount of money to allow players to become good due to a broken level system?
This is what I was getting at in my first post. Why is EvE increasing with the above points so relevant
No you dont Ive been playing Eve for a while and I have friends that started less then three months ago and already have tech II fit cruisers/BCs and are awesome in our 0.0 battles.
Saying it takes two years to become good in eve is just trolling.
Eves sub numbers and activity rise because people like the game, we dont care about ghost training or passed exploits or a cheating Dev that was taken care of along time ago.
your telling me Eve costs more now? we dont give a rats ass cause the 60 day GTC costs just as much as any other MMOs two month game card WoW included.
And im sorry that this 35$ mmo payment bothers you so much..... man you college kids act like having a job while going to school to fund hobbies is against the law or something suck it up and go work at mcdonalds for two days a week partime.
Man, after all the whining you've done in this thread, the only thing to be said in response is....
QQ much??
EVE's a great game, the 'problems' you've mentioned aren't worth mentioning, and after almost two years I'm still having tons of fun with the game.
I guess your points weren't relevant after all, since the concurrent numbers keep going up and up.
there is a reason this game doesnt even have avatars, is old,has lag,a steep learning curve, and manages to INCREASE its playerbase. when the get the ground game in we will see what sandbox can really do.
I just wanted to say that there is a 21 day trial to play Eve using Steam. You can play it as many times as you like. You just have to create a new steam account each time. 21 days is PLENTY of time to enjoy Eve. What I do is create a special forces character with balanced attributes except for charisma. Keep that low. Do the Cashflow for Capsuleers missions to get two free ships and lots of other free goodies. Then work on getting Salvaging skill to start making serious money. After that, get a Cruiser and tractor beams. You can be in a Cruiser with salvaging within 2-3 days. Then look for a good player owned corporation to join and the fun begins. A good player corp will have you helping them do level 4 missions which is quite nice and mind blowing graphics wise. I can't even begin to describe it. And I can't stress how addicting it is to play this game for free over and over again 21 days at a time. You can call me lame or cheap or whatever. I don't care. Because I get to play one of the best space MMO sims ever created by mankind and be totally contempt with what it has to offer in the free 21 days I can play. It's an incredible game but I really don't see myself paying $15 a month for a game that I can't ghost train in considering everyone else was able to do it and will always be years ahead of me. Now if only CCP lowered the monthly price down to maybe $10 a month...hrmm.........
But anyways, CCP keeps saying that one day we'll be able to walk around inside stations. That would be nice :)
I'm gonna wait on Jumpgate Evolution and the NCSoft Star Trek game then decide which space MMO I wanna pay per month for...
Oh and one more thing. The lag is pretty much non-existant. Not unless you got an older PC...
The older pc stuff is pretty much bullshit. Fps have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with lag.
Anyways..
People seem to forget that there is no such thing like "bad publicity".
Publicity is publicity is user numbers is pcu record. Yes it is that simple.
The game is fun for quite a few people, and relatively polished as long as you don't know a lot about its structure. Even Jita is relatively lagless currently. That's the reason eve had a new record.
The Dramafests are probably a direct cause of this pcu-record.
Troll much? Or are you just inexperienced with trying to use an older PC in Eve? Either way, your comment is BS...
Try using an older PC in Jita with tons of ships around. Your PC will come to a crawl and it will be difficult to do anything.
Could you please explain me what fps have to do with server side lag?
If you get bad fps, you have to
a) reduce effects
b) turn off sound (like anyone has that on anyways)
c) disable drone models
c) get a good overview and bracket setting for travel. The Ui code scales horribadly, and hits a brickwall very soon, no matter how powerful your computer is
d) fall back to classic graphics, but don't install the classic client. (use a premium client with classic graphics instead. yes, there's a difference)
e) make sure to have cache relatively low if you run out of ram
d) make sure hdrr is off, and shadows not set to maximum (same as ui code)
If you get server side lag:
Go somewhere else.
But you won't suddenly make server side lag go away by increasing fps, just like server side lag won't make a difference with your fps..
Lag is lag. Get that through your thick skull......................... Maybe you should back up and reread my posts?
Lag is lag, yes, but lag has nothing to do with low fps on client side.
Lag is latency issue - if you have an old PC/graphics combo that reduces your fps to a crawl, then server latency isn't affected, client side fps is affected.
Saying EVE lags because you have a crappy computer is like saying because someone due to bad driving skills crashed their BMW that germans make bad cars - not very logical.
I suggest you expand your horizon before spewing off about people and thick skulls.
1. Times codes can now only be perchased in 60 days same retail price as games like wow for example. But people that pay using the normal payment system with a credit/debit card was not effected. Only people effected by this was the people that purchase these time codes in game using in game money, which is not a bad thing. The 60 day card costs the same as the old 90 day one which is why alot of people was unhappy but like i said it has just been brought in line with other mmo's on the market they are not longer giving away 30 more than the revials.
2. Ghost training was never an offical part of the game ok so they let this flaw slide as people seemed to like it, but this encouraged character farming and people was buying GTC's in game using in game money to do it so ccp was loosing money. Cant blame them for trying to boost there subcriptions in todays market. The page that listed Ghost training as a feacture is a community submited database, ccp should of done a better job of proof reading it i guess.
3. Agreed :(
4. Agreed :(
5. Never heard of this happening apart from that dev who well that story is old. CCP have given ships to corps in the past as part of tournament prices and giveaways (in game events cant moan about that..).
Customer care has been top notch since the day i started playing had a few problems upgrading my account using a retail key as i purchased the game in a box when they still sold it in retail shops. But they was solved within an hour of e-mailing. Had a few problems in the past due to lag and lost a few ships got them back too. If the problems you contact them with a real problems caused by faults or bugs there end they will correct things.
Again the game costs be the same now as it did when i started so not sure what price hikes you are talking about.
Lol FPS - Frames per second if your hardware cannot keep up with the game it apears client side as lag. Its the same thing with webcams if you have a camera with low FPS tracking when u move it apears in slow motion because the camera cannot keep up, same thing apply's here im afraid.
LOL this is so sad.
Seriously you don't like Eve but you're willing to play the trial a hundred times?
You call eve the greatest space simulation of all time then say it isn't worth 15 bucks a month?
Then you use something as lame as ghost training as an excuse as to why you're leaching off CCPs game? News flash man with no ghost training now things are fair now players with a billion accounts have to pay for all of them to do what they used to do. Its gone and for the better.
Oh dude if you're lagging in eve its due to your crap computer playing premium graphics and not handling it well and if you're lagging in Eve, jumpgate and STO will be slideshows for you.
I think what really bothers me is that you say you join corps on a trial, waste peoples time and then start the process all over because you're too cheap to actually pay for a game. people like you are the reason corps dont take trial accounts.
Right, I take offense at being called a troll when your the one making stuff up.
My character was flawlessly made to be a fast learning character, and in no way can you be effectively 0.0 ready in under 3 months. Full Tech 2 fittings etc on useful BC's? Not possible. Simple as that.
If you want to be actually effective and not a joke in 0.0 go have a look at BoB's max damage fitting list. It is literally impossible to fly any of the good ships (recon, bship & higher) in less than a year. And thats not mentioning the prefered class of ship is in the capital range.
Unless of course youve found a bug
Plus there is no way of finding out the active eve subs. So how'd you come across the conclusion they rise?
And again, your wrong. Check websites. Eve is the most expensive for 60 day time cards, and when compared to AoC, WoW, WaR, it really isn't worth the extra cash.
And im sorry you never had an education. I'm doing a real degree and don't have time for a job, unless I want to work every hour of the day, which would leave me no time for an MMORPG...
Plus you totally skipped the point of EvE is not quality for the money your paying. It's unbalanced, dated, the fighting is skillless coming down to who has the more sp's and ships. I'd prefer to stick to better games that are actually worth the money.
Hahahah, obvious troll is obvious.
No bridge here dude, move on.
Insulting people and making stuff up isn't good, nor does anyone care to hear about it. Move on to youtube where you'll be appreciated.
Ghost training being gone is UNFAIR as all the older players now have self funding alts. As alts are a necessity, then this means younger players have to pay much more. Thats fair how? And let me remind you alts are needed in eve, no two ways about it.
People like you are the one who scam players in Jita, and don't take a step into low sec, dare I say 0.0.
The saga of ryzom is about as close to a ground based eve as you can get, very cool game, very open,
Your the cool kid...
If you look, no ones actually answered the bloody question, not to mention does anyone know the active sub count? THought not, so server numbers means more trail accounts from net banners.
If your happy to play a dated game with no skill in it and just a grab for cash more blatant then any other MMORPG then go nuts, I just think its chucking money away.
Poor customer care, game being unbalanced, combat being slow, repetative and dull not worth mentioning? What is it that people nowadays look for in a game
And I think as the poll shows, my points may be entirely relevant, just not publicised enough.
Well that is strictly your opinion, Not one of those you listed can be construed as a PR disasters, in fact some were great PR, like the starbase exploit that was found. CCP eradicated all accounts associated with it and even went back in history and tracked all use of it and then reported to the public the results of their investigation. Clearly something few MMO companies would do.
As to FPS, that is normally related to your graphics card, not your CPU. Generally most CPUs sit and wait on hard disk requests, memory requests etc. A slow CPU can be easily augmented with faster hard disks, more and faster memory to lessen swap times, and a better graphics card. The reverse is true too, a high end CPU can be constricted by have a slow hard disk, slow memory access or not enough of it, a poor graphics card, etc.
Just one weak link can bring a supposedly fast system to it's knees. So anyone relying on CPU speed to determine system speed is just stamping a clueless label on their forehead.
Just a quick note, Eve is not for anyone. Some of you want the constant handholding, easy character advancement and no risk play of games like Wow. Nothing wrong with that, games are played to enjoy. I don't criticize others playstyle.
But coming here and criticizing a game that is clearly not meant for you with comments that have zero basis in fact, clearly labels you as a troll. I don't like to use that word, but boy does it suit you.
Lieing to your customers, not once but twice isn't a disaster? Just a accidental press on the bullsh*t button lol ?
Plus the starbase exploit was well handled, if it wasnt for the fact CCP only found out via petition, with the exploit having been around for years, and having that after axing the non-exploit of ghost training seems ludicrious. More than a lot of eve players were willing to "meh" off.
But yes, the lag in eve is pretty non existant. That was something that was done well. but claiming the upgrades were part of Quatum Rise was rediculous as they were in action months before the expansion was.
I can see replying to you is a waste of time, you will make up nonexistent facts to back up any of your ridiculous insinuations. Have a great day and please go post your distorted views on another board.
I can see replying to you is a waste of time, you will make up nonexistent facts to back up any of your ridiculous insinuations. Have a great day and please go post your distorted views on another board.
Yep, Mazty is just a bitter troll, ldon't feed the troll.
EVE is awesome.
p.s. Tthere is hardly any lag in Jita, and once there are too many people, like 1500+, then you are not allowed to get in anymore and a window pops up so you can let concord tow your ship to the next system. A simple but good solution.
Quantum Rise did not have as much content as other expansions, but the Server improvements were very good ! ( After they fixed the initial patch issues :p )
And for the people who are bitching about EVE, they either don't play anymore or they should quit :p
I know you're just a troll, you enjoyed EvE for a while and someone butt hurt you real bad now you go out of your way to troll anyone that likes the game. Eves 45k peak record is something to be happy about as an Eve player. you can't deal with that so you resort to trolling and bringing up crap that happend ages ago.
If you don't like EvE don't play it we wont miss you.
No, it appears as low fps.
I've never really bought into the peak concurrent records, even though I've played EVE for years. It's an artificially created population spike for the most part. After all, I know for a fact that when the record is close everyone that has an alt account goes and logs it in to try and push the number.
I suppose one could argue that it speaks to a broader increase in sub numbers - which to a certain extent is probably true - but no other game than EVE goes as far to promote the activation and maintenance of two or more accounts to the same game either. (see the Power of 2 promotion - which was originally supposed to be a one-time-only but has come back twice more as I recall).
As such the "concurrent record" is (IMO) hopelessly muddied by the alt accounts and the general group interest in proclaiming (or being part of) a new record number. Far more telling is the overall trend - which for this particular record seems more like an anomaly at the end of the holiday season than an indication of that many more players.
From the coldfront tracker (eve.coldfront.net/status/summary) it looks more to me like the concurrent numbers have been peaking pretty consistently just over 40K over the past year - with a bump in the past month likely related to Quantum Rise releasing. To me it seems every indication is that EVE has become population stable which probably means the sub rate has plateaued for the time being.
Granted they were planning to get boxes back in stores at some point soon - and that would certainly have a marketing push if it does come to pass, so perhaps it's a temporary plateau. On the other hand, EVE is getting older - and while it is maintained and expanded better than the norm (again IMO), it will eventually reach a point where populations level off and start declining. Tough to say.
I criticise EvE for very valid points, hence the reason I was originally asking why have the numbers increased and this makes me a troll?
No, it makes me someone who disagrees with you. I have presented many good reasons for why EvE is a bad game after having experience of it, and why I am confused for the increase in numbers. All you have done is said I am wrong, without saying how, as if you’re an omniscient deity. That's not an insult, that’s how you’re coming across.
A troll is someone who goes out for a fight with no reason. I asked a question, presented my reason and why they would be a deterrent. Just saying no doesn't constitute a coherent or good reply. Pointing that out doesn't make me a troll.
So again, with all the flaws I've mentioned, why do people still play EvE after the recent months have shown that CCP are no longer focusing on producing a game of high quality, but just want revenue. Something that has shown a good reason for the increase in server population is the poll I put up, showing many people aren't aware of the flaws in the game and CCP.
Plus if you think I'm making any facts up, please point them out as I'd be happy to show where I'm coming from, and where I'm getting figure etc from.
I would say what you are doing is giving your opinion on subjective material. Games are a form of entertainment (aka art) and its subjective.. its not objective.
Just as with anything in the world that *I* don't like but other people do.. I wouldn't be able to really understand why they would do whatever it is.
Right down to MMO's I don't see much point in playing but have tons of subscribers.
The only factual response you are going to get...
Is that somebodies point of view is different than yours. Thus they play... since you don't share the same point of view.. how could you understand it?
If you talked to every person playing.. you will just end up in a debate about "but this is a flaw why do you play" ... "because I like the game" ... "but it has these flaws why do you play.."
I'm not trying to take any side here.. I think I'm just pointing out the... obvious.
What to know why the game is increasing in activity?
Because the people that play it and the people that try it think the game is good.
They don't care about CCPs passed problems they just play and have a goodtime.
It's that simple.
People have different opinions on different games while you think Eve is a terrible game and CCP is only out for money. I happen to think it's the best game on the market since SWG, I happen to think CCP is a great company that keeps giving us free content that's actually fun. They have a tough job, balancing a skillbased game is hard work and for the most part I've agreed with thier decisions. So they missed a couple big exploits thier human man, shit happends Eve is still an enjoyable experience for most of us.
Eve online also has a very bright future in my opinion, with a new tech level coming and total revision to the pve mission side of the game, up and coming ambulation thats going to bring more social aspects to it.
I love playing Eve and nothing you say could change the way I feel about this MMO and a ton of people feel the same way i do this is why activity and possibly subs have risen.
Calm the rage, I'm criticising eve, not you.
Those ships are useless, more so in 0.0. The only BC that anyone would expect to see in 0.0 is the drake, and to get that full t2 fitted takes at least 5 months from scratch. Missles, shields, navigation, electronics, engineering, and BC 5 which you do need otherwise you'll be torn apart in seconds. Not a single good corp would expect there pilots to be flying t1. Theres a good reason for that.
A Goon supporter are you? If you don't go by BoB's standards, you will get mashed in 0.0 by all the bigger boys; Tri, BoB, AAA, RedA, RZR etc etc.....
If you don't come close to these standards, you will just get podded. If your not effective at PvP then why you in 0.0? Maybe I should clarify, when I mean 0.0 ready I mean go in and not return to high sec for months at a time, not pop in, get some ratting kills and dash back.
Erm, you've lost me. I was asking how do you actually know that active subs has risen when there seems to be no source or way of finding this out? Point is no one does apart from CCP, and as WoW frequently released its active sub numbers, how come CCP doesn't?
You got ripped off. Simple. Check shattered cyrstal, a listed seller of GTCs for eve. Eve is the most expensive on there, but really the highstreets never seem to do good prices (Zavvi for the UK readers).
I was just pointing out the naivety of your comment everyone should work. A lot of the time it's not possible.
"Eve is good 'cuz..." Not a reason. It's unbalanced (fact), requires no tactics (max damage is a testament to this) , is dated (WoW style fighting is evidence) and CCP just want money, not provide a quality service (Lie to the customers and miss years old bugs).
If you can give a reason why eve can look past all that, sure, that's what I'm asking. But saying I'm wrong just because I am with no logicall reason is ACTUALL trolling.
As for playing the game "jut because it's good", I'm a firm believer that everyone can explain what good is, hence the reason if you look at eve, I can deduce it's okay due to the many, many flaws, and when that's combined with the price, it's dire.
Mazty, I'm sorry you hate the game.
I could bring up each and every feature and tell you why I like said feature and you could counter my post and tell me im wrong just like you have been doing(even though its all a matter of opinion anyway). it doesnt matter, get over it and move on.
I've been playing Pvp mmos for a very long time a games shift in balance never ends, theres is no totally balanced game. If your going to let things like that bother you don't ever play pvp games again please.
You said in your intial posts that new players need two years to become good at the game, I disagreed and gave you examples. you disagreed and brought up BoB. what if a player doesnt want anything to do with null sec? BOB is not the be all end all of Eve im sorry to say.
you took Eve way too seriously imo, you seem to get hung up on exploits that CCP missed and balance issues calling it bad service? some people just don't care about that stuff. people make mistakes while you wont let these go, I and may of us do.
Some players are just happy in small ships or a big ship not exactly fit the way BoB deems worthy.
The best part of eve is that it could be played anyway we want Mazty, it gives us a level of freedom that we havent seen since UO.
Pull the balance issue and the exploits all you want, I know its hard for you to believe that some people just dont care.
You bring up CCP charging more for GTC? while your right it has been increased its still in line with other games that are much worse (of course my opinion).
You say Eve is old and and then point to WoW? im sorry but I played WoW and considering Eve ripped me from WoW i consider wow old in comparision.
OH and how did CCP lie to customers again? the ghost training thing? get over it.
im done.
The answer to that would be...
"For several months now."
But do not take my word for it. Log or create a trial and head to Jita to see for yourself.
It's because Eve is a Master Level hardcore game that DOESN'T pander to 1-hour-per-week casual gamers.
In Eve, Achievement actually means something you can be Proud of and brag about.
Imo Eve is the new paradigm for MMOG success - instead of dumbing things down, devs should require excellence and the fanbase will grow and rise to the challenge.
the evidence shows your expectations are wrong.
The game is not what you define it to be, or even what you want it to be. Other players enjoy it and it is clearly gaining subscribers and players. For some reason this seems to offend you.
But how can anyone not see things in your particular light?
It is the height of arrogance to say your view of how the game should be played/developed is the only one there is. For most people the so called scandals don't affect them, and those that are affected can either adapt (OMG the speed nerf will kill the game, Oh, the vaga is still a good ship, who would have thought?) or nerdragequit.
Oh, and as has been said before, there is no bad publicity. Complaining loudly gets more people to look at the product, some of these people will then buy it.
*Sigh* No, the evidence shows bugger all, as I've explained due to the fact CCP refuse to release the active subscriptions. As you must be aware of, when the record gets high, everyone logs on their alts. All the high number may mean is the bombardment of net banners has drawn in people to trial accounts.
Oops, looks like I've upset a fanboy
The game is what I define it to be. As someone who prides myself on not being bias, all the flaws I have mentioned exisit. That's not opinion or a debate. It's fact.
The game is unbalanced. Blobwarfe and rook/falcon swarms show this as well as many other ships. If you play eve, you know the ones I mean. Oh, and of course war dec'ing
The storyline is utterly, utterly pointless. You can fly whatever, and fleet with whoever, making the storyline entirely irrelevant.
The levelling system turns into a money grab. To become good, you have to have a set amount of skill points, close to 20 million. As long as you get the standard little boosts, it will take a long, long time to reach this, and with that time comes the cost of subs. Unlike exp based games, there is a set price on being good in Eve. With GT now gone, the level system seems to take and give nothing in return.
Also, due to the levelling system, the game becomes an impossible game of catch up with the veteran players. You can make billions of ISK, but your ship will still get torn apart by theres. Unless your in a blob. Go tactics.
The combat is slow. The math shows this, and the existance of tanking. Unless your in blob warfare, expect a slow fight. This is opinion granted, but I feel that with the money CCP are raking in they could do a hell of a lot more with the combat that would introduce tactics.
Combat is also lifeless. F1 - F5 is the essence of combat. I can't imagine that getting anyone's pulse racing. However, admittedly this ones more of a poor element of the game in my opinion than an outright flaw.
CCP give poor customer care. Now this one I find hard to understand how some people view it. They lied outright to EVERYONE for the reason of removing ghost training. Evidence shows (not supports, shows) that it was a known feature that CCP were well aware of and more than happy to continue. (See the mod comment about how he got bollocked for saying it was being removed a while back). Not to mention the official story completely changed after the inital outcry. If people had to buy their subs from CCP in person, even the fanboys who don't mind being treated like cash cows would have something to say. But because electronic commerce is so impersonal, apparently so is the insult to their intelligence. Go figure how that one works...
Oh yeah, you call it adaptation...
And it's not nerdragequit, it's customer rage at a business.
What is the height of arrogance is to criticise my views on Eve because they don't match yours. I think it's somewhat stunning that you can whine about my comments, but no where have you said why I am wrong for thinking or saying what I do, other then I just am. When you come back with something constructive, such as the elements of the game which overlook all these flaws, then awesome, it's what I'm asking for, not to be hit by the fanboy bat for having a negative view of a game.
As for no bad publicity? Again, can't actually prove that until CCP release there sub count which always has seemed to float around 250k mark. Would like to actually have some hard figures.
@Flummoxed
Last time I checked, eve was just a game. And as eve is all about skillpoints, is it then an acheivement to pay $400 for the required skill points to become good? Then surely even the casual gamer can gain the acheivement of being good by popping on battleclinc, picking a t2 ship to aim for, and paying his subs for the next so many years. Or just pop onto the character bazaar and pick yourself up a titan pilot. Sorted.
As there aren't tactics in eve other then spam ships, I can't see how it's possible to achieve anything in it other then "Woot, (x) skill has just leveled". The autotargeting and bugger all steering pretty much sees to this as well.
Or is it an achievement to participate in MAX Damage, the mother of all battles due to the exceptionally skilled tactic of spamming as many big ships as possible? Just curious as to these acheivements you go on about.
How about a decent MMORPG comes out which doesn't have a cooldown style combat system which feels lifeless, and as its down to timing, you could pretty much train a monkey to do it. In my opinion, pump up morrowind to DX10 and make it 10x the size. That'd be a winner.
What are you talking about? CCP do release active subscription numbers. The subscription totals they release include only active accounts that have been paid for and are released as they pass a milestone or make a big press release. They don't include inactive, lapsed or trial accounts. And based on those subscription numbers, the number of EVE players has steadily increased since launch to a current total of over 250,000. And when they hit 275,000 or 300,000, they'll update that figure.
Granted, the PCU does include trials but there's a limit to how many trials can log in at a time (I think it's either 3000 or 5000). You're trying to suggest that the increase from the old PCU of 40,000 to over 45,000 is due to hoards of trial accounts but that's physically impossible. Also, if you log a trial account in you'll be told via an information popup how many accounts currently logged in are trials. For example, "Currently there are 33738 players on the server and of that 1983 are trial accounts" (taken 5 minutes ago). If you want to know what proportion of those logged in at peak times are trial accounts, go right ahead and check.
I'm sure other people will come and argue with everything else you've said but I will save myself some effort and spare my sanity. You seem to be completely incapable of separating your opinion from fact. You do realise people can disagree with you without being catagorically incorrect, right? Your opinions on the quality of EVE don't magically override the game's success. A lot of people like the game, pay for it and play it. Those people disagree with you and that doesn't mean they're wrong or you're wrong, it just means you don't like EVE. Big whoop, lots of people don't like EVE. But most of them don't waste their time writing essays on a forum about how much they don't like it.
WoW dude I could have saved myself so much trouble by just checking ur post history. out of ur 30+ posts near all of them are flaming or bitching about Eve.
I had no Idea you were a freaking butt hurt ghost trainer hahahaha!
Jesus christ did u get banned for that PoS exploit also?
no wonder theres no reasoning with you and you can't see hom people dont give a shit about the problems with Eve.
Let it out man keep making these idiot posts about CCP and the big bastards that lied to you and took away ur ghost training advantage.
Ehh maybe you shouldnt cause here all that shit you spew fall on deaf ears, here most of us love Eve.
You picked a forum that thinks Eve is a unique game... hell even the players that dont play it respect it.
What a waste of time, get over it.
Ur bitching on the wrong forum.
How many accounts did you close because of the ghost training thing? 2? 3? 10? how many did you ghost train so u could resell them and make RL money? man thats sad.
QQ more
Im so happy they got rid of that bullshit feature people need to pay for training if you cant afford it get a job!
I need to remember post history next time before I respond to someone, what a waste of words on a hater.
It's worrying that a father uses the term "Butt hurt" .
Plus its also somewhat disturbing that you seriously have an inability to understand ghost training. You talk as if it was an advantage to some players. Everyone could do it!
The reason so many of my posts are anti-eve is because I say something about eve being not as great as people think because of X or Y, and a get a hail of fanboy illogical, circular arguments, and i'll be damned if i'm going to shy away from retards babbling on about something they clearly don't want to understand.
Accounts were sold for RL money? They wern't. CCP just want more money and so lied to their customers. That's bad business practice, but people would rather warp reality so that it didn't seem that to admit they were giving their cash to a bunch of b******s.
As for getting a job, I'm busy getting an education in the hope that I will never get a job which turns me into forum dwelling eve fanboy.
Nice graph, although what is interesting is that the last subscription anouncement was in April time, around there highest server pop. Now i'd have expected them to release a 275k mark with the 45k population, but it hasn't happened which leads to wonder the actual sub number.
"You seem to be completely incapable of separating your opinion from fact."
How? I try to keep fact and opinion sperate, so where have I gone wrong?
"You do realise people can disagree with you without being catagorically incorrect, right? Your opinions on the quality of EVE don't magically override the game's success. A lot of people like the game, pay for it and play it. Those people disagree with you and that doesn't mean they're wrong or you're wrong, it just means you don't like EVE."
Yeah, admittedly I'm no longer a fan of Eve, but NONE of you have actually said why Eve is good, or how I am wrong, other than I just am. That's liberal talk and at worst, fanboy talk. As I've asked before, with the PR mess ups and the flaws, how come it's increasing? That's not an invitation to smite me under fanboy rage or liberal "your wrong because your criticising my interest" replies, it's a question.
If you look at how things went, I said how come is increasing with the PR mess? To which I had to explain, and was then hit with the absurd idea that GT wasn't a bad PR situation etc etc. Anyone whose taken a look at it knows that CCP was money raking, to argue anything else is rediculous.
I was then told that Eve was charging a standard price (it isn't) for the GTC's and that people should get a job to afford it. I brought up the point it wasnt a standard price and due to the level system, it was exceptionaly expensive.
From there on a was hit by a hail of "no, eves not expensive, its great, stop crying about GT". I then showed how eve infact is full of flaws, and now we're here
Blame fanboys for being woefully arrogant and trying to get me to ssh with the time old "your just wrong" argument.
It's ok, one day when you grow up maybe you will have a nice job with a nice big office that lets you play Eve and hang on the forums in peace in between conference calls and meetings. Having a home office when I don't feel like leaving the house or don't have to travel half way around the country is nice also.
And getting an education is no excuse for not having a job.
You bitching about the money man but don't want to work? "eve costs too much" "eve lied and took my free training away"
Now I wonder if Eve didnt take Ghost training away and never raised the price of GTC would you have made all these negative Eve posts still, nahh probably not cause you could train for free, cause thats all it comes down to for you.
Anyway, I could do what your doing also, I could pick out a couple features I want Eve to improve and bitch and bitch cause noone could challenge me on it. Things like a broken wardec system, sub standard missions, Mining thats mind numbing and bounty system that just doesnt work.
I could pull all these out and make a big long post about how anyone could play the game with these problems. While I may enjoy Eve im not that much of a fanboi that I dont see problems with it.
I think everyones problem with your posts is that your so focused on the negative and never bring up anything positive that you sound like a pure hater.
Ill bring up Eves problems but I don't completely ignore the positive and say Eve sucks this is what you're doing and it's the reason you're recieving this type of reaction from people.
Ok here we go I'll answer you're questions.
"Why is Eve's activity increasing, even though CCP has had a few PR disasters?"
Because these "PR disasters" Haven't really bothered the vast majority of the playerbase. Even if this new achievement was just a few thousand players logging on alts Eves activity has still been pretty steady all year, proving that the "disasters" havent had much effect on the majority of the playerbase.
I'll agree CCP's problems have been pretty bad, removing ghost training was a bit shady but the majority of the playerbase thought this was a good change so It didn't effect numbers at all. CCP itself has stated that only a few hundred accounts closed down. ( was a dev blog on the eve site look for it).
"CCP is a cash grabbing company, they have the highest sub rate, why do people still play?"
I don't know where you live but I live in NYC, when I go to buy my wife her game card for WoW it costs 29.99 plus tax which is around 34-5 bucks. I goto the game shop cause my son likes to come along and I buy him a Wii game once every other month if he has good grades. Now if you check battleclinic Eves 60 day time code costs 34.95, Seems in line with WoW to me.
Even if Eves sub may cost a bit more where you live im living proff that this change doesnt effect everyone.
"Eve is unbalanced and 0.0 blob warfare is nothing but a who has more ships battle, why do people play this game?"
Because most of those balance issues don't effect the majority of the playerbase. Im not going to disagree that the game needs some balancing but not everyone battles it out in 0.0. And the players that do have worked around it by using certain ships to take advantage until the next round of nerfs spring up on us.
"Why do you like the game?"
I happen to enjoy cyber spaceships, I like defending sections of space with friends. I enjoy working around CCP nerfs and was smart enough to join a really big alliance that lets me play the may me and my friends want so we dont have to follow bobs guide lines. I like small gang combat in low sec space on my alt and Faction warfare is actually fun also. I enjoy my indy alt because I find hauling fun while bullshitting on vent with my friends.
Was that ok? I gave you reasons why I like Eve and hopefully answered some of ur questions.
Edit: ill be back later I have some work to do.
tears of laughter (oh, and I am not sure, 'fanboy' is name-calling yes?)
from what i remember, and this is not a fact, as i can't find a link, trial accounts are not included in the concurrent user statistics, they are also capped. wish i could find that reference. take it as hearsay but consider that every PSU suffers the same error of lots of alts logging is, not affecting the overall trend. Also for sure plenty of banner ads will help the game grow.
your facts are often wrong as well.
shattered crystal does 60 day cards for US$34.95
wow, now there is a fact for you. the game that tens of thousands of people play, is defined by you? oh dear, so laughable.
you really have no credibility, you demonstrate supreme arrogance and fail to allow any other view except that what you say matters. The funniest thing is it doesn't. All the negatives you point out only matter to a few people and majority of players are still having a good time so there is little effect on the growth of the game.
You want a point by point deconstruction of you view that "After several huge PR disasters I'd have expected figures to have decreased significantly, not rise"
Ignored by most players, yep, because it matters to a small part of the client base.
So no it does not affect the games growth.
Known feature. oh dear, is that why you played EvE? for the feature of gaining something in a MMO by not paying for it or being able to play it either?
It was not a feature, it was an exploitable bug that allowed the farming of alts for sale.
Removal of this had the effect of removing a lot of non-subscribed and non-playing accounts, not really going to hinder the PCU a great deal, just lower the number of unused alt accounts.
If, as you have done, say the implementation of stackless I/O and improvement of the lag issues are not part of this expansion as they were progressively rolled out before the expansion date, then yes, it was a light one. But this is the feature of this expansion that i loved and respected for effort it took. Especially because they did progressively roll it out, ironing out the bugs instead of taking credit for an expansion that was full of implementation flaws.
but not exactly a Pr disaster and removing the lag from large fleet battles will help the game expand.
Yep, this was a scandal, but the market has already normalized. The speculation in goods normalized in under a week but there is still a ~10% mark up on some goods but this is clearly not game destroying. In fact it shows how robust the economy actually is.
This issue has little noticeable effect on most players so little effect the games growth.
if this is about the t20 thing then it is something from 2 years ago. So is unlikely to really affect current growth.
Again look at the sub scription count. One of the previous posts has a link to a good graph which shows that CCP hasnt released any sub info since there previous peak back in April. Maybe with alts closing down, mixed with more adverts, server pops going up, but subs are holding steady, may even be decreasing.
Oops, typo. I mean a 60 day GTC, but either way, more expensive then the other MMORPG's including the brand new DX10 ones.
Now quit being pedantic and taking things out of context. If you read the post and the previous/following sentence you'll see that I mean the game is how I define it to be in terms of the flaws I have mentioned exist in the game. Nice how you skipped around that point.
Oh dear. You actually believed the tripe CCP hauled to the masses even after reading the offical story which wasn't slightly altered - it entirely changed. Not to mention the proof that shows ghost training, a term coined up for it to be removed no less, was a feature and not a bug. It wasn't used for farming, and either way, those non-existant farmers would have had to still have payed subs. So how's it being exploited? And then theres the market sales that continue after sub runs out etc.....
Actually how about you pop to the eve forums and actually look at the mammoth post on it, and don't skip the evidence that shows CCP's terrible customer treatment. I'm done arguing this point with people who don't want to see the full picture.
Well considering I left before Quatum Rise was released, how come I was able to "experience" the stackless I/O? Because it wasn't part of the expansion, it was just an upgrade that should have happend reguardless as the lag was dire, especially for a company raking in cash. Many people will agree Quantum Rise was a giant patch, not an expansion. And not like Emp Age was any good either. Yay, factional warfare, tough luck if your in 0.0.
Check up on the forums, some prices for items have doubled, not to mention how much it wil have screwed up 0.0 politics with the trillions of isk worth of extra cash.
If a company has a poor record I would want to know about it rather then presume time heals all and makes a company better & morally upstanding citizens....blah blah blah. If a companys got a bad history, unless theres a change, it'll probably follow that pattern. And CCP has. Apparently anyone who played Eve is a guillible idiot according to CCP with their GT nonsense.
When I "grow up" I sincerly hope I'm not stuck playing virtual spacships. Talking on vent while in an office? Somehow I can't help think but you watch too many internet reviews ...
Getting an education is an excuse for not having a job, hence it's called full time education. Inbetween my 9-5 lectures, not to mention out of hour assignments, when should I get a job? The 8th day of the week maybe?
Either way petty bickering is pointless.
Taking ghost training away was the step that made me hate eve. I'll explain how. With GT, Eve was the online MMORPG that didn't demand the hardcore socially lifeless sterotypical MMO player that other games did. Eve was the MMO for people who didn't want to be stuck behind their desks, decaying into a socially inept state. You could whack on a skill, smash a few ships, blow up a few guys, log off, get slaughtered at the pub, spend a day recovering and all along you didn't have in the back of your mind that you should be doing something on Eve instead, such as grinding exp, to get your moneys worth. And to reward the players for this time, and therefore, cash intensive system, you could carry on levelling to a very limited degree once your sub ran out. This also was a massive insentive for the casual gamer and people with long stretchs abroad with their carers to return to the game, as they had something new to return to. After all, eve isn't the most excsting game and people would burn out after a few months. The GT would act as a break and an insentive to return, to renew peoples interest in it.
But now GT has gone. This means the levelling system is siply cash intensive. Yes, the idea of having a life still is around. But there's now the need in the back of your mind to renew the sub as soon as it runs out, with no insentive to return to the game if you burn out. Instead of an advantage, the training system has just become more reason to buy premade characters to save r/l cash, as you can put an exact fixed price on becoming good in eve. I'm a gamer who wants to be good through skill, not throwing cash at things. May as well open an Eve item shop while theyre at it.
To quote you:
"Things like a broken wardec system, sub standard missions, Mining thats mind numbing and bounty system that just doesnt work. "
I payed £30 for an offline game, resistance 2 to be precise. One off payment. It's multiplayer is lag free, it's perfectly balanced, has tactics and skill gets you very far. All that for £30.
Yet Eve is getting the subs of 250k people and can't even iron out the simple things, such as the broken bounties, or dire missions. Simply put, where the hell is the money going to? CCP don't have any other projects (apart from one, which is the reason for ambulation) to be funding, and reguardless, the payers, are paying for eve, not another game. If eve was bringing out expansions like trinity every 6/9 months that'd be great, but the last two have been terrible!. Emp Age was useless for anyone in 0.0, so most people, and Quatum Rise was a fat patch with no content. All this mixed with the GT is enough for me to go 180 on a game due to the lack of reguard to the customer that CCP is showing. Eve was average over a year ago, but its quickly falling to the side in terms of quality.
As for why you like the game, totally fair enough, makes sense, good reasons, though I'm not paying $35 every 2 months for it.
You can still be a casual player and play Eve, just cause they got rid of Ghost training doesnt stop that, hell im extremely casual, i just turned 30 (going on 60 due to kids) and I havent found not being able to train while my sub was inactive a problem.
Actually I think the game is better for it since it cut the huge amount of Alts people had by a good amount.
Personally I feel the Faction warfare patch to be a great addition sure it doesn't help 0.0 players out but it does something that Eve couldn't offer before, a way for a noob to get into decent sized battles without being in 0.0. thats a good thing imo. And while I agree QR wasnt the best patch the certificate system that alot of vets laugh at has helped alot of newer players get into the game. And im sure you will agree the lag fix is nice.
Now you ask what CCP has been doing? why havent they created more shit for us to play with or balanced things better? during evefest they stated they have pulled all resources back to eve. So i guess that World of darkness project and the unnamed new CCP Fps actually took some resources from eves dev cycle (which i think is lame).
With all of CCP and Eves problems imo the game is still one of the better MMOs on the market, hell look at the sad state the whole mmo genre is in. We havent had a decent sandbox game since SWG? hell UO? and you're wondering why people still play the game.
Once Eve has real competition they will need to really get thier ass in gear cause mistakes like they've made will hurt them, but right now since theres nothing to play other then eve the subs havent fallen and generally people are happy with the game.
Edit: oh and to respond to ur first few lines, Bro being an adult playing cyber space ships on my free time or in my home office is alot better then what most adults in my field do to relieve stress, (drugs, booze, hookers). You have no Idea how stressful or hardcore the business scene is with our economy the way it is.
finally, you clearly state why you take exception to anyone who likes eve.
I can see how you enjoyed gain in eve without paying for it. The thing is it was very easy to start a 3 week trial, (Caldari Actura) put in a full set of +3 implants, get all the learning and advanced learning skills done, then do a month on a month of for a few months and have a very worthwhile industry/mining/covert ops/etc alt. This worked to the macro miners favor as well as being a mini career as you can sell characters for isk.
I am glad alts are harder to make now. Admittedly i did benefit from it, but now i am simply training an alt up on my main character, and it is still pretty easy.
Also some there still are some places where you can gain in the isk grind while not subscribing. Trading will let you put items on the market with high mark ups where there is low trade volumes, over months, especially if you spread your investment of multiple product lines, you will reap the isk. Then the is research points which still accumulate while not subscribed.
Oh, and if you can tell me which item is still doubled in price, that would be great cos there is money to be made undercuting that grossly inflated item.
Best thing to do is completely ignore Matzy. He has such an inherent dislike of the game that he cannot discuss it rationally. Instead resorts to ficticious facts that only suit his side of the story. Most of his complaints are about changes that have made the game better.
Matzy is just an example of the type of troll who should just be ignored. Most of what he says is either a gross distortion of rumours or a bit of truth with a big exaduated white lie.
On the main topic tho its nice to see that not all MMO's are failing and that WoW isant the only MMo thats growing at a steady rate.
How? Please explain that. After playing eve for a while I know the flaws in it, and personally, I wouldn't pay a monthly sub for a game with them in. So instead of branding me a troll and a lier, how about you say how I'm warping truth, or is it the reason that what I'm pointing out is valid, and so you dislike it?
What is it with you/ a lot of eve fans and taking personal offense at anyone who doesn't like the game? I dislike Eve, not the players, let's get that straight.
The flaw with your character farming is that:
1)All characters would have to be active with subscriptions, meaning CCP loose out on nothing
2)You say it's good alts are harder to make. I'm going to pressume your not a hardcore 0.0 pilot as you'd understand the necessity for having several alts at any one time.
As for gaining isk while not subscribed, well the forums and myself see that as a massive sign that CCP only took away GT for extra cash, not to help the eve universe in any way. As for that item, it's on the forum post about the market issues.
Metalhead980 came up with some really good reasons for why Eve is a good mmorpg and why it's probably still growing - it's sandbox and a lot of the new expansions, while hollow for a majority of players, makes the game more welcoming for new players. Considering how a lot of games are WoW clones in one way or another, I guess I can see why it'd seem appealing.
Though why I no longer am intrested in eve (other than the given points above), even through the good points like fleet battles (the size is the selling point, not the blob tactics) and sandbox gameplay, is that when I started playing, November 2007, trinity was on it's way and it looked like Eve was set to go on to become bigger and better. However once trinity had passed and it was on to Emp Age, the game seemed to stagnate. It wasn't becoming deeper, nor where the somewhat massive flaws being fixed. Then when GT kicked in with the increase in sub price, the "your all idiots, give me cash, no more GT for you" incident and the features of QR where released, I realised that Eve wasn't going anywhere quickly. From looking like a revlutionary game it had done a 180 to become a money grabbing sub average game, with a hefty price tag. I was out in 0.0 with BoB, was able to fly logistics pretty much perfectly as well as recon, and was very close to flying Command ships well, and it didnt seem worth the price by a long shot, or that it was going anywhere quickly. This may be a reason why eves not going over the 250,000 sub mark maybe, it has it's hardcore players, but everyone else gets bored quickly of it and their illusions of greatness that is eve quickly evaporate.
Though if eve does pull its act togther and really puts all the cash back into the game, I would still be open for having another try at it, but only when it becomes a game that reflects the cost of it. As ive previously said, offline games at the moment are much cheaper and a better quality than eve, and most mmorpgs for that matter.
@Ozmodan
Hows that for discussing it rationally? Yet you have not once said why it is good & adding to that the appeal to long term players.
The site that graph is from has not been updated since April 2008 for ANY game. The site it self has not had a single update since May 30th.
It no proof in any direction of ccp releasing sub count data after April or not.
If you check press releases they say nearly 250k subscribers up until November while the latest one says 250k.
So it does look like subscriptions have stagnated slightly but they are still increasing.
We should also expect a huge influx of new players in late spring when Eve will start to be sold in stores. How many of those new players will keep playing remains to be seen.
I think Mazty is just an attention seeker.
I've played a good few MMOs and some of them were truly terrible, I'm sure you all have. But hey, if you decide you don' t like a game, do you still hang around in the associated forums slagging it off? I know I don't, I wipe it from my PC and forget about it totally. I really couldn't care less about a game that fails for me.
Hence I think Mazty has some other problem otherwise, if he hates the game so much, why is he posting such endless streams of vitriol?
I think all of us who play Eve have criticisms of aspects of interface/gameplay/storyline or whatever but it's far more interesting to read and discuss constructive criticism with ideas for improvement than a slagfest...
edit: typos
Please read the entire post. I asked a valid question to begin with and came across a lot of fanboy criticism. I'm not one for standing down to circular logic and arrogance, hence the numerous posts, numerous but rational & from a point of experience, not ignorace.
come on guys, give Mazty some credit, it is not everyday that you see some one that prides themselves on their "freedom from bias" continuously using name-calling to support their arguments.
That is supreme entertainment right there.
then why call anyone with a dissenting view from yours a fanboy?
I think you misread the part where i said "month on, month off" for training the alt up so they are pimped for sale.
i am not sure your agreeing with me or not, because the tone you use "hardcore 0.0 pilot" could be as an epithet or a compliment.
Making a 0.0 scouting alt takes the time to create a character as you can scout in a shuttle. Sure a covert ops or falcon alt will take more time but as i said, i am taking time off training my main, to get my alt up for additional work.
Oh and our kill board is always headed by someone who solos in 0.0 without an alt. So again you views of the what is necessary are not facts but erroneous and misleading opinions.
Quit trolling. My name calling is from the point that all fanboys do is criticise anyone whose view differs from their own. And thats what a large majority of people began doing when I showed a dislike for CCP. Are you not doing the same as them?
Have you actually posted anywhere why I am wrong in saying what I have? No, all you have done is thrown around empty remarks and statements which have nothing to do with Eve or the state of which the game is in from a analyitical view.
If you bothered to read the EvE forum reguarding GT, you would know that you can't GT a character month on, month off, there simply isn't enough skills to do that with.
By hardcore 0.0 pilot, it's neither an insult or compliment, it's refering to players that live in 0.0, as in go out to the heart of 0.0 and don't leave for months at a time. For these people, and anyone in a serious alliance, you need alts. This is because one character simply isn't enough to do all the tasks you need to in the massive universe of Eve. And if you want to make your alliance and wallet go far, you need a mining alt, and/or a market alt.
If your a casual player who doesn't do much, then you can get away with not having an alt, but if you really want to explore what eve has to offer, you need an alt. See how it then sucked to take away GT? It made life more expensive and didn't balance the game in anyway.
As for soloing in 0.0. Hahaha, seriously where are you guys camped at? I've been in the north and south, and no one dared to solo as it would have been utter suicide.