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General : '08 Awards: Most Innovative Feature
Posted Dec 01, 2008 by Jon Wood
Innovation is the key to the long-term success of any genre. Innovation keeps things interesting and fun, giving us new and interesting features. How a game builds upon and changes the ideas put forward in the games that came before it can mean the difference between a long-term hit and "just another copy".
- Council of Stellar Management (EVE)
- Combo Combat (Age of Conan)
- Public Quests (Warhammer Online)
- Ship Combat (Pirates of the Burning Sea)
Check out the Most Innovative Feature nominees and vote!
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pq's for sure
I don't think any of these game concepts are really that innovative. I guess if I had to pick one, it would probably be the public quests in Warhammer.
I think the entire industry reeks of a lack of innovation. All I see is one copycat game after another.
Age of Conan combat combo is most certainly not innovative, it has been done before in other games. As to ship combat, how is that different than ship combat in Eve? I think the jury is still out on the Council of Stellar Management in Eve, it seems more a marketing ploy than anything helpful to date.
I think we have to look to the indy developers for a company to take a chance on something truely innovative, the major ones seem to avoid that lately.
I agrre with the poster above, but if i had to pick one it would be pq's for sure.
I have to respectfully completely disagree:
I honestly can't remember ever seeing Age of Conan-style combat in another MMO. I'm not saying I'm king of all knowledge or anything, but to the best of my recollection, or that of anyone else that I have spoken to, we've not seen it in another MMO.
Have you played Pirates of the Burning Sea? I can't recall the last time that wind direction and strength played a role in EVE Online... given there's no wind in space. I'm not knocking EVE's combat, I'm just saying.. it's different.
The Council of Stellar Management has already made a number of differences in the direction of EVE. I wouldn't say it's any more of a marketing thing than any other feature of an MMO. when there's news about it, they send out a release. Take a look at this interview.
Honestly, and please don't take this personally, but I think you might be confused as to the meaning of the word innovation.
Invention is the creation of something completely and wholly new, while innovation is taking something that already exists and somehow changing it (generally to improve upon it).
Communities have always contributed to development decisions, The CSM takes a new spin on that and formalizes it via elections
Quests have always existed in MMOs, PQs present them in a different way, encouraging people to work together without requiring grouping
ship to ship combat has always existed, but PotBS used what they knew of nautical age of sail combat and integrated functions to replicate it.
MMOs have almost always used single key attacks, Age of Conan added a new layer to that by requiring combos to activate certain abilities.
These are all innovative features. I'm not saying they're all great, and we're not asking you what the best feature is. You don't have to like something for it to be innovative. Inf act, innovation often results in the opposite.
I totally agree with Stradden on this one
PQ's are new'ish (been done to a lesser degree in WoW and others), but they are a 100% failure so no way thats getting my vote.
Combos are new to MMO's
The other 2 I dont care about.
So my vote goes to AoC combo system
I would rather put my vote to LOTRO weapon leveling system in MoM (although I dont know if thats new or not).
This one was easy ;)
Warhammer deserves it for Public Quests. This is a feature that's bound to be emulated in most MMO's of the future.
Personally I think that AoC's combat system is pretty revolutionary, and works great for PvE, it's too involved for PvP though.
Eve, I haven't had enough expirience with to comment. I've played the trial, but that's it.
PotBS I haven't played at all.
WAR's PQ system was pretty fun at tier one, but by tier 2 they were ghost towns. Again, if this was a primarily PvE game it would have worked out better.
So I guess my vote has to go to AoC. Even though the game is severely lacking in some ways, it had several good points. Apply the graphics and combo system to a game like Asheron's Call and it'd be the best game out there, IMO.
One could say that Age of Conans combat has a resembelence to what would have been Gods and Heroes combat system. The only difference in being that the hits were broken up into 1/2/3 for AoC where as in GnH it was just 1 click walla! But GnH never came out and I can't really recall any other combat system like it. I voted for the PQ's, a very good innovation for the future development of MMO's. On the combat question though, wasn't DDO's combat similar to AoC. I never played it so i could be wrong. I do remember hearing that it had a twitch type combat though.
PQs hands down.
I do have to say a big THANK YOU to whoever chose the nominees for that list, for not including WoW's "phasing" as a "new feature." It's been around for years, despite countless claims to the contrary by WoW fans here and elsewhere.
Haha! You are actually planning to give out awards this year ?
I would just say "2008 MMO awards are canceled due to lack of quality contestans"
But anyway
* Council of Stellar Management (EVE)
I dont know how much "revolutionary" this is. Still EVE is pretty much the only game of quality on the list.
* Combo Combat (Age of Conan)
Are you kidding me? Combo combat in AOC is one of most poorly designed gameplay elements i seen in PC gaming in general , and i am talking last 10 years included. Whoever designed it obviously has no touch with gaming in practical sense. Only potential benefit i would see as some kind of bridge to XBOX version. But we know that will never happen
* Public Quests (Warhammer Online)
Good idea on paper. But never actually play tested. It just doesnt work in practice.
Other quality companies come up with such ideas, playtest them and junk the ones that doesnt work , by dosens.
* Ship Combat (Pirates of the Burning Sea)
When you rip off and steal gameplay mechanic of other game (Sid Meiers Pirates) and actually manage to destroy it and make it 10X times more boring than the original - that amazing feat does indeed deserve award , just not this kind of award.
Perhaps you should rename the contest into : 08 Most failed feature
I agree with what Stradden said. AoC got my vote for their combo system. Its a nice change from the old hit the auto attack and spam a few special attack buttons til the monster is dead.
I would have thought LoTRo Legendary Items would have made it onto this list...
ZZZZZZZZZZZ...
But anyway, I think this one is close. Public Quests I found to be quite entertaining. You count on a sturdy group of people to complete several objectives, and it's not Realm vs, Realm or an instanced Raid. Added a certain fun factor that you really couldn't get from anything else.
The ship combat in PotBS is rather innovative when you think about the strategy needed to be successful in certain areas. There are many things that you need to identify and take into an account before you go off into a PvP port battle (wind, number of people, positioning on the map, ship types, shot types, formations). It's much like a game of chess, where you try to think a few steps ahead. I've really never experienced anything like that in any other MMO.
Age of Conan's combat system at the time was a very welcome change to the same ol' same ol' that is MMO combat. Combat systems have used the same basic system for almost a decade, and Funcom decided to break the mould. I think that it's pretty innovative.
I have to give my vote to Pirates of the Burning Sea.
Everquest has evolving weapons / gear.
The PQ's in Warhammer are innovative, it is the player base that is the failure in that game.
I agree with most posters and vote:
"None of the above!"
There are others, more innovative ideas and features out there. Spellborns combat for example. Yes, PQ of Warhammer are a nice idea, but not really working the way they should from a players point of view.
I am sorry, but I see no innovative feature (working) in that list. At least none, that would suffice an award.
Have to agree with the others...none of the features are that innovative...but of the four listed WARs PQs get my vote.
I was just about to say ya EQ had leveling weapons too. The PQ system got my vote. Although the combo system in AoC would have been a close second.
Say what you will about how Funcom aka Failcom dropped the balled, but they got one thing right. Age of Conan's Combo Combat System is by far the best combat system right not. Too bad that and the lore is the only two things the game has going for it, other than the hot graphics and the DX 10 support. Alas not enough to be the new number one for most MMO gamers.
Actually, I have not yet played any of these, although I expect that I will sometime in the next year. I am currently playing just LOTRO and EQ2 but am actively searching for one or two more amongst which to divide my time (I've played quite a few others but have abandoned them for one reason or another).
I did do some research on the features of the four innovations nominated and my vote goes to Eve's Council. They are all definitely 'different', but since I always get deeply involved in the community forums of the games I play, often I post many suggestions and see many good to great suggestions/ideas/problem solutions within the forums that never get addressed nor are given serious consideration from the devs of those games, and the Council setup in Eve is a very positive and innovative step in the right direction.
QFT And yeah "Most failed feature" would be a better choice of words.
theres public quests in runescape and I bet many games, just sayin'
bet mythic weren't the first to do faction vs faction pvp either they just like to give stuff a new name and pretend its revolutionary.
anyway I voted aoc. the combat was not perfect but it sure as HELL is 100 times better than every other mmo. most people don't like it because they can't handle hafting to use both hands.
Uhh, I didn't find AoC's combo combat that revolutionary. Revolutionary to mmos....I guess.
I voted for Council of Stellar Management. Any game company (and community) that goes to that effort to listen to its subscribers gets my vote.
None of the options appear too innovative for my liking, but I went with PotBS for the fun of it.
I went against voting for PQ's, as inovative as they are, simply because in practice they don't work.
They were theoretically great, but when used in game, most people just stuck to the better, faster content, and the PQ's ended up devolving into just grind fests akin to factions in world of warcraft.
Beyond that, I just flipped a coin for my choice.
PQ's in WAR FTW.
They are a way of gently encouraging people to group together and play a MMO with other people!
For those who don't know, a PQ typically has 3 stages. The first stage is solo. The second stage 2 people of the appropriate level can complete. The third stage requires at least a tank and healer of the appropriate level, but can be completed by a larger mixed group.
There are normally 3 pq's per chapter. As you complete portions, stages, or the entire pq, you get influence points. Get enough influence points and you get 3 stages of loot. The loot is typically (half the time) a desirable upgrade.
If you don't complete the 2nd or 3rd stage in a certain period of time (first stage has no time limit) then the pq will reset to the first stage. Thus, 1 person can solo stage 1, move on to the next pq, and cycle through them to max their influence for that chapter and get the loot. 2 people can handle both stages, and if you get a group you can take all three stages.
Completing a pq gives you a random roll with a quirky system that adds to your roll based off your contribution in the pq. The top players (sometimes everyone) gets a loot bag where you decide on an item. The quality and quantity of the bag is random, but is partially based off the difficulty of the pq. The person with the highest roll gets the best quality bag. Each bag of same quality has the same items for that PQ, but different items for each of the PQs in a chapter.
This in an innovative feature that gives players encouragement to group together while allowing solo/duo players rewards for their time. The pq's that are empty of players can be fixed if you just get a group together and go there.
Man...
It's been a bad year...
This site loves EVE so much it put in a "feature" for the awards that's not even an in-game feature. That's sad, just sad.
I have to respectfully completely disagree:
I honestly can't remember ever seeing Age of Conan-style combat in another MMO. I'm not saying I'm king of all knowledge or anything, but to the best of my recollection, or that of anyone else that I have spoken to, we've not seen it in another MMO.
Have you played Pirates of the Burning Sea? I can't recall the last time that wind direction and strength played a role in EVE Online... given there's no wind in space. I'm not knocking EVE's combat, I'm just saying.. it's different.
The Council of Stellar Management has already made a number of differences in the direction of EVE. I wouldn't say it's any more of a marketing thing than any other feature of an MMO. when there's news about it, they send out a release. Take a look at this interview.
Honestly, and please don't take this personally, but I think you might be confused as to the meaning of the word innovation.
Invention is the creation of something completely and wholly new, while innovation is taking something that already exists and somehow changing it (generally to improve upon it).
Communities have always contributed to development decisions, The CSM takes a new spin on that and formalizes it via elections
Quests have always existed in MMOs, PQs present them in a different way, encouraging people to work together without requiring grouping
ship to ship combat has always existed, but PotBS used what they knew of nautical age of sail combat and integrated functions to replicate it.
MMOs have almost always used single key attacks, Age of Conan added a new layer to that by requiring combos to activate certain abilities.
These are all innovative features. I'm not saying they're all great, and we're not asking you what the best feature is. You don't have to like something for it to be innovative. Inf act, innovation often results in the opposite.
Point taken on both Pirates of the Burning Sea sea combat and also CSM in Eve. They both meet your definition of innovative and thank you for enlightening us on what the definition is.
As to combat in Conan. My first fight in the Conan was deja vue, I immediately knew that this was very similar to other games I have played. As to what game had it, been too many to remember the exact one. So since I can't supply a name, I will just have to disagree on this point, I know that this combat method was not new.
I have to respectfully completely disagree:
I honestly can't remember ever seeing Age of Conan-style combat in another MMO. I'm not saying I'm king of all knowledge or anything, but to the best of my recollection, or that of anyone else that I have spoken to, we've not seen it in another MMO.
I disagree. It was not innovative and in fact has been in every mmo out there. See those icons you click on your skillbar in every mmo? Funcom added a few more on a square skillbar and then added brackets on either side of the mob to tell you which to click on.
Not innovative, merely a GUI gimmick.
I voted PotBS. I only played the beta of that game but ship combat was by far the most interesting combat I had taken part in in a true MMORPG.
Certainly more brain power necessary than smacking 5 hotkeys in a routine order. Too bad the rest of the game was pretty crappy...
Aoc combat was innovativie to me as it needed skills in pvp rather than loading your skills and spells by pressing 1,2,3,4,5.
I played a melee character and it was great, the way you had to double step backwards or sidewards etc to avoid swings of other characters weapons etc or to laod up specific buffs to help you survive for a few more seconds. The combo system was great and at times pulling of the combos were hard due to being outnumbered or even stunned and rooted on the last action of the combo, but atleast most fights were very different every time. Its a shame failcom lied and turned this game into an instance based empty game or i still wouldve been playing it.
Age of Conan couldve been one of the best games of all time but funcom turned it into the shambles it is now. For that they deserve an award this year from MMORPG for being the most faggiest developer around.
I voted age of conan combo. why? Even grinding was fun as you were always testing out what combos you would use on mobs if another player jumped out and attacked you. Like erm.... i would start of with this combo and then this one and then i would use the finishing blow kaboom!!!!!!! and sometimes when u finish these combos they even had a sick death move at the end of it, wow awesome I think it was innovative and thats what matters because its my vote.
Its all about ME.
The game was shite..... they said it was going to be an open sandbox game and it wasnt...they said it had Directx 10 and it didnt, the pvp patch wasnt there while i played, i dont care of its there now i hate funcom .
Gaute greedy greasy german Godager was a big fat muppet who didnt give a shit about no-one. Lets wait and see what this new silmaril guy does and who knows they might have a good game by next year.
Reason I chose WARs PQ system over AoC Cobat system ( though it was close):
The PQ experience was a game wide experience. All players could enjoy the feature when logged in. In Age of Conan, if I played a pure caster (PoM, ToS, Necro, Demonologist), the combo system is worthless to me. ( Nitpicking yes, I know)
I also believe future MMO games will emulate Public Quests in their worlds one form or another. They will learn a lot from Mythics implementation and improve upon it. Age of Conans combo system will be harder to emulate. Might require too much effort that would be worth it. Why go through all the troubles of a combo when you can chain buttons together or do a heroic opportunity like in EQ2 for a special effect?
Public quests are fair on most levels. Everyone gets a shot for loot, though the scales are tipped for those who contribute more. Even if you don't have time to stay to the end or dont have enough people to do it, you can still get a reward from an influence vendor. It is a casual MMO players blessing. And casual players outnumber the hardcore ones.
So this is why I feel Public quests are so innovative for MMOs.
Public Quests would have been my choice, if it was new. EQ2 has used them in the past during Live events. According to other posters, WoW has used them. So innovative, not so much.
EVE's council, again, not new. EVE has done this before. Other MMOs have also had similar 'councils' that collect communtiy data and then meet with devs to share their collective findings.
PotBS, I don't have any experince with this game, and while it sounds intriguing to me, I can't put my vote behind somehting I'm not familiar with.
AoCs combat system for me is the most innovative feature of the three remaing that I am familiar with. The system is more than just combos, its also can involve active blocking and directional combat. I've played enough of other MMOs to know the difference between the rows of 'skills' in other games and the combat system in AoC. I still play AoC, EQ2, and EVE. I've been largely playing AoC of late. Everytime I go back to EQ2, I find the combat dull and slow. I find myself missing the interaction of the directional attacks and combos, as well as the blocking schemes.
In summary, AoC combat system, ftw!
some of us aren't that easily impressed.
you can't just look at a piece without considering the whole. when is the last time you were looking to buy a car and said "man, that's one sweet driver's side seat"? do you only watch cable/satellite for the local news channel?
going by the definition of innovation given in this thread; why isn't wow listed with all the items it originally innovated upon and the things it continues to innovate upon?
csm - sorry, i'm not seeing anything great coming from there that the dev team wasn't already leaning towards.
combo attacks in conan? i'm pretty sure i've played games where you have to do x and y attack to open up Z attack. i'm pretty sure that dual blades has stuff like that in cox, just off the top of my head for a recent example. didn't uo add stuff like that a long time ago? rogues in wow have to build up points with basic attacks in order to get to the "good" attack. so unless aoc's combo are something OTHER than "do x attack followed by y attack and it gives you z attack -- it's been done over and again in mmos).
regardless, if the game is a stinker (aoc); then what does any innovation matter?
which goes with potbs. again, i'm sorry, but i've seen staff here at mmorpg posting with the "you just need to give them a few more months (and continue paying a sub for a sub-par game. sub-par even in the mind of the poster supporting said game at the time).
in order to be considered, a game should be at least decent. the public quests are a great idea in a game that doesn't totally suck.
but hey, everyone has their opinion.
Going to have to go with the PQ's on this one.. CSM isnt even in a game feature, as much as a vote for the popular eve players... AoC Combo system would be my choice if they had implimented it properly and made it useful. Ship combat isnt anything new.
CSM got my vote because it was the most invasive feature out of the whole lot from a game i have actually played and liked
SQO has had a public quest like system that actually works though i haven't played war so i cant say for sure that they are a similar system
but there were no real choices in that list the csm effect can be achieved by a simple forum vote where the devs ignore the biggiest winers and go with the best option
I didn't think much of any of them.I did not understand what exactly the Warhammer idea was trying to achieve that was so innovative?Was Warhammer trying to achieve solo quests? that is what i took from it.In EQ2 last i played they were adding zones that scale down to player or players and the level of difficulty.YES these zones had quests ,so in essence they wee achieving the EXACT same thing,but again i am not sure exactly what WARHAMMEr is trying to achieve so i may be off here.
The AOC idea i guess is sort of unique but is not a good idea.I would rather learn something a little more challenging than arrow directions.Just the idea of arrow directions sounds too superficial to me,to be counted as anything exciting or challenging or thinking.This idea is actually a variation of the FINAL FANTASY [console] special attacks where by you have to enter directions and symbols to achieve the special attacks,so really it has already been done.I can't quite remember witch game it was but i think it was FF8 or FF9 or maybe it was even 10.
I do not think ANY game out there is even close to Final Fantasy when comes to innovation in combat,just because they have covered soooo many different areas in not only there console games but there FFXI as well,using the renkai chart/combos/sub classes and attacks that utilize more than one player and they have levels of renkai varying from level 1 combos to level2/3,then you can add magic bursts,geesh other games should be embarrassed at how far ahead the Final Fantasy genres are .
As far as the council of stellar management goes,that is not really unique as a whole.Sure they have 9 players i think it was ,but they are to take input from the whole community,that is something SOE did with EQ2 long ago.For a whole year at least maybe longer they put out petitions to every player ,chocked full of questions as to what they liked or did not like about the game.So in reality both ideas are taking input from the community,where as EVE is relying on the 9 players to take from all,but in reality they may ignore all and just utilize what they feel personally.I would rather choose to trust the Developer to arrange feedback rather than players in the game,as i have ALWAYS seen players to be VERY biased towards themselves, whilst not caring about the ENTIRE game community.
I have to respectfully completely disagree:
I honestly can't remember ever seeing Age of Conan-style combat in another MMO. I'm not saying I'm king of all knowledge or anything, but to the best of my recollection, or that of anyone else that I have spoken to, we've not seen it in another MMO.
Have you played Pirates of the Burning Sea? I can't recall the last time that wind direction and strength played a role in EVE Online... given there's no wind in space. I'm not knocking EVE's combat, I'm just saying.. it's different.
The Council of Stellar Management has already made a number of differences in the direction of EVE. I wouldn't say it's any more of a marketing thing than any other feature of an MMO. when there's news about it, they send out a release. Take a look at this interview.
Honestly, and please don't take this personally, but I think you might be confused as to the meaning of the word innovation.
Invention is the creation of something completely and wholly new, while innovation is taking something that already exists and somehow changing it (generally to improve upon it).
Communities have always contributed to development decisions, The CSM takes a new spin on that and formalizes it via elections
Quests have always existed in MMOs, PQs present them in a different way, encouraging people to work together without requiring grouping
ship to ship combat has always existed, but PotBS used what they knew of nautical age of sail combat and integrated functions to replicate it.
MMOs have almost always used single key attacks, Age of Conan added a new layer to that by requiring combos to activate certain abilities.
These are all innovative features. I'm not saying they're all great, and we're not asking you what the best feature is. You don't have to like something for it to be innovative. Inf act, innovation often results in the opposite.
+5 Respect points for this post.
I agree the AoC combat system is a novel system. I also think the Murder vs Innocent Consequence PvP system is novel though. I can not think of any other game that ever have implemented such a concept. I know Fable was really doing a lot of work on this side of things but Fable again never had PvP and murderers hunting innocents and vica versa. Anyways, my vote goes to AoC for their combat system.
i pretymuch just snored through all of these. not are really inovative.
If i had to pic a inovation their really only one game that comes to mind City of heroes (and later champions Onlines) Character Creation Sytem. No other MMO comes close to that level of customizbility
Actually, you might, if you were concerned with the ways that front sdeats operate. Maybe the front seat has a butt warnmer in it, maybe it adjusts to fit the driver... In this case, we're only looking at specific pieces of the car... you'll have your chance to vote for best overall car later on.
I think you're missng the 2008 part... Champions han't launched yet and CoH's customization system was implemented a long time ago...
I think you're missng the 2008 part... Champions han't launched yet and CoH's customization system was implemented a long time ago...
I think you're missing the part about any of these things on your list as being innovative. As others have even commented upon.
None of these implementations in 2008 deserve to reserve any kind of award. They either lack being original, changing game dynamics beyond appearance or actually gathered much player interest at this point and are either being ignored and retooled by devs to lose any sense of originality.
I actually agree with that, AoC's combat system is better than every other MMO simply because of the combo system. The funny thing is, it isn't even really all that different than most other MMO's combat systems, with specials and all that. What they did was add something extra to clicking on the specials, and some very nice animations.
Too bad they released the game unfinished and have decided some of the promised features are not important enough to implement into the game. AoC is the biggest waste of potential since SWG was destroyed by SOE.
I completely agree with that. PotBS's ship combat is not much different that normal MMO game combat, it just has ships instead of a humanoid avatar. Hell, if you want to claim having a ship instead of the usual MMO type avatar is innovative, EVE has had ship combat since it launced several years ago. Even SWG, for all its flaws (and those flaws greatly outweigh any good points that waste of an MMO has), has had ship to ship combat since the JtL expansion, which is actually different than anything found in any other MMO.
The ship combat in PotBS is in no way innovative, not even cosmetically.
I completely agree with that. PotBS's ship combat is not much different that normal MMO game combat, it just has ships instead of a humanoid avatar. Hell, if you want to claim having a ship instead of the usual MMO type avatar is innovative, EVE has had ship combat since it launced several years ago. Even SWG, for all its flaws (and those flaws greatly outweigh any good points that waste of an MMO has), has had ship to ship combat since the JtL expansion, which is actually different than anything found in any other MMO.
The ship combat in PotBS is in no way innovative, not even cosmetically.
But dude...
it was a boat.
This is MMORPG.COM here and we like to lower the bar on standards
Edit: I guess if fallen earth releases it can let you build a dunebuggy or something similar. That has never been done before. Do I smell a potential 09' Awards: Most Inovative feature nominee?
ok, innovations for 2008.
wow's new siege vehicles allow for one player to drive/attack with the siege vehicle and several people to ride in the back, shooting at enemies AND they're pretty safe from attacks until the vehicle is destroyed. combine this with the siege vehicles are capable of destroying enemy castles and such. that is innovation on pvp play.
what about the mounts? flying and land based mounts also include mechnical flying machines, choppers/hogs and flying carpets. not sure about mounts in other games...
COx has improved qol for character creation and/or respecs. as of the release of i13 (tomorrow) there are a number of changes. villains may now respec out of their patron power set. all toons may have dual builds. day jobs gives badges/accolades/powers/buffs while your character is offline. i believe powerset proliferation was introduced this year. new powersets continue to (slowly) be added. these are very close to new classes being introduced in other games. combine all these together and only counting the new stuff in 2008 and you have quite a bit of innovation in character creation, re-creation and advancement.
depending on mounts being offered in other games, i would say the above three are all excellent innovations introduced this year.
yeah, i know mentioning wow isn't cool; but, improving upon the status quo is what blizzard (north) was known for, and this new crew at blizzard seems commited to (at least attempt) continuing this tradition.
I completely agree with that. PotBS's ship combat is not much different that normal MMO game combat, it just has ships instead of a humanoid avatar. Hell, if you want to claim having a ship instead of the usual MMO type avatar is innovative, EVE has had ship combat since it launced several years ago. Even SWG, for all its flaws (and those flaws greatly outweigh any good points that waste of an MMO has), has had ship to ship combat since the JtL expansion, which is actually different than anything found in any other MMO.
The ship combat in PotBS is in no way innovative, not even cosmetically.
Have you played the game, or even read the article describing why it was different? Did you read my earlier post in this thread discussing how it was different? I'll grant you, you use WSAD, but the last time I checked, you don't have to worry about whether your avatar is broadside or face on, you don't generally need to worry about how the wind direction is going to effect your foot based avatar...
Seriously, maybe reading before posting a scathing criticism is in order as this matter has been addressed several times both in the article and WITHIN THIS THREAD. Just saying.
Have you played the game, or even read the article describing why it was different? Did you read my earlier post in this thread discussing how it was different? I'll grant you, you use WSAD, but the last time I checked, you don't have to worry about whether your avatar is broadside or face on, you don't generally need to worry about how the wind direction is going to effect your foot based avatar...
Seriously, maybe reading before posting a scathing criticism is in order as this matter has been addressed several times both in the article and WITHIN THIS THREAD. Just saying.
I guess I will go ahead and take the bait first.
Yes I have played the game, it was not my cup of tea. You are talking about the wind and positioning?, Sorry, but this is nothing new. Many games use positioning in offensive and defensive tactics. All You have done here is explained that the game changes it's appearance and terminology to do the same things we have been doing for years.
I had to laugh when I read that. Oh hooray, you now press two buttons instead of one! It's definitely much more innovative now!
The only MMO that can brag about being able to "stimulate some of the choas and attention to detail required in real combat" is DDO, due to its active combat system. And almost 3 years since its release, still no MMO has come close to replicating it.
Innovation my ass.
People forgot to add Vanguards Diplomacy to the list, that was a novality! My vote goes for Warhammers PQ as that blew me away and I think every game will emmulate this feature. It was a hard choice though as PotBS has an exceleent ship combat system that requires sailing tactics along with the right combat moves.
AoCs combo system was kinda craptacular after playing Cabals combo system. AoC was still button smashing with a lil something ripped from God of War.Cabals combos took timing and practice to get right was very cool and very original. with that power bar moving faster and faster each hit gets more and more difficult and the closer to the target line you hit the attack the more on target you as wich did more dmg.
on that list tho i would say PQs in beta they was packed and always got a group, after launch tho the new people went to the old tried and true WoW ways of soloing in an mmo
seirously, this stuff is more innovative (and actually a part of the games) than the choices listed.
I think you're missng the 2008 part... Champions han't launched yet and CoH's customization system was implemented a long time ago...
actually, as my other post shows, cox has furthered their character customization features this year.
i voted pq even tough they could improve a bit
my order would be:
1. pq
seems pretty new and innovative to me and the few time i had the pleasure to actually see people do one of those it was pretty cool.
2. combo system
i found it pretty fun in aoc but it isnt a huge innovation
the general innovative trend i see is that some mmos move towards a more action orientated fighting style then the click and wait from wow/war. i have to mention ddo as well as a game that implemented action orientated fighting pretty early
3. ship combat
since i didnt experience it 1st hand, cant say to much about it
4. csm
i disqualified it personally. first and foremost i dont see it as innovative feature to listen to the community.
if the csm would be a political factor that would shape the ingame world it would be innovative but as it is i see them a bit more like unpayed community managers
here are some latecomers or minor innovations on my personal list
- turn based fighting in atlantica online
- voice over quests in aoc
- pep system in chronicles in spellborne, omg that makes me mad atm
- skill wheel (and manual targeting) in spellborne
- henchman system in ddo (well prolly been done bevore)
- the chaotic weapon in lineage 2 (find it, become uber, go on a pvp spreeeee)
and something i look forwared to
- dialog tree options in aoc and star wars old republic that really influence your quest/ position in the world
I wouldn't call any of that innovations, Vehicles exactly like that were in Planetside, unless your speaking purely about destroying a castle I believe that belongs to DAOC or maybe something before that. Honestly I think your reaching with the mount thing, I wouldn't consider new skins for mounts innovation.
Regarding CoX, I also would hardly considered furthering char creation innovating or respecs, dual builds I believe are in EQ2. I'm not sure what you speak of about Day Jobs but that seems like a EVE like advancement. Thought honestly I can't comment with complete confidence on CoX since it has been awhile since i've played but most of that sounds very similar other games features, though giving more features to a mmorpg that features some of the best char customization is great but, it just dosen't seem like a innovation.
As for my vote it would go for PQs, even if I think PvE is just plain awful in that game, if it was in a PvE focused game I think it would be pretty amazing.
Guess I will add my take on this seeing how I have played 3 of the 4 games listed as having an Innovative Feature.
Eve Online -- Here is a game that was innovative in it's own right when first conceived. An entire player base for the game on a single world? Not possible thought by some but indeed it is possible. Either way, I have long sense quit the game before the Council of Stellar Management. I find this innovative as it is the first game to bring a real world system into a vitural world. But beyond that, it really does not add anything innovative to the game in terms of gameplay.
Age of Conan -- This seemed quite interesting when I got into the beta. Grim, dark world with action-packed gameplay yet with the openness of a MMO (while its not totally open as in like Everquest or Shadowbane but more open than a hack n' slash or standard RPG game). I believe this game could have went the distance, and still might age very well. The combo system in of itself is not innovative but in the world of an MMO, it breaths new life into the genre, which is the definition of innovation in my book.
Warhammer: Age of Reckoning -- This game I am currently playing so anything I say here could easily be bias. Generally speaking, this game is a redux of DAoC with a new world and some interesting changes to gameplay. One of those major changes is the public quest system. From what I see, a PQ is exactly like a raid except you do not need the structure or organization of a guild to complete (i.e. time needed). I can see many changes made to this system to incorporate RvR, PvP, world events, chained events to unfold a story, and a great many other ideas.
Pirates of the Burning Sea -- Now I have not played this game before so I can only give insight into what I have read or seen. But the added realism of having to control your character/avatar based on real world stimuli adds another depth to the MMO world. While just like Age of Conan, the system in of itself is not innovative, it does bring something new to the MMO world and can easily understand why its considered innovative.
Of these four, I know I would not pick the Council of Stellar Management as something innovative because while unique, it really adds no gameplay values to the MMO in itself. So of the three left, my vote goes to the PQ system from WAR as it could have a long impacting and game changing system to current and future MMOs in development.
Where is Chronicles of Spellborn fighting system?
I wanted to vote for that
it seems that mmorpg.com sees spellborne as a 2009 game (see 1st page also) even tough some of us lucky europeans alreaddy play it.
i posted once that tcos should be 2008 and aion should be 2009 but no1 listens to me
Public quests suck though and they ain't innovative they're just solo grind where everyone has to fight over mobs in one area......
Even though this isn't innovative too I'm voting for the AoC combat system because the directional combat made me feel immersed and engaged into the combat unlike most mmorpgs where you just press tab and it auto attacks.
it seems that mmorpg.com sees spellborne as a 2009 game (see 1st page also) even tough some of us lucky europeans alreaddy play it.
i posted once that tcos should be 2008 and aion should be 2009 but no1 listens to me
Yea, I thought Chronicles was a 2009 game and you were playing Beta. Oh my bad..
Good point on adding the Turn based combat system(Atlantica Online) in MMOs. For MMOs it is different.
Diplomacy is another one that should be on the list. I don't know of any other game that implemented card duels into the MMO game. I would not have voted for it being the most innovative, but it deserves an honorable mention.When was DDO released? The implementation of voice chat in the game itself may deserve a mention, only because no other game decided to do it. Most avid players use 3rd party programs like Ventrilo/Teamspeak. On a personal level, I shunned away from voice chat until DDO because I felt it ruined my immersion, but I soon learned it wasn't bad after all.(edit: DDO released in 2006 DOH
Vanguard released in 2007!)
Vanguard did not launch in 2008
I'd vote for EvE not because it's a really innovative feature but because it gives a signal to others MMO stutios: time to get in touch with your player base.
I would say the next step should be to add devs polls to the in game login interface.
For me 2008 is the year of the Big Failure. No MMO delivered and all of them did poorly on communication and socialization. We don't play MMO anynore but SingleOnline games.
As last note the real innovation this year is both for AoC and WAR: free server merge/character transfers few time after launch.
I'd vote for PQs. The system is addressing and solving so many problems inherent in PvE multiplayer that it is a real wonder no one thought of it before.
The one in WAR is pretty basic at the moment but it is quite obvious that it can be improved and evolved in so many ways in the future.
I'm 100% sure that PQs will become a staple of future MMOs, pretty much like solo quests, instanced dungeons etc etc.
In addition it is a "true MMO" invention because it is applicable only to the mmo genre and it stems from the specific MMO qualities - namely persistent multiplayer environment.
So it's definitely PQs for me, whether they are really that great in practice in WAR is immaterial (I think they are but that's my opinion) - what is truly revolutionary is their concept and I'm sure that the genre will benefit immensely by its introduction.
I agree.
Public Quests are innovative as it introduces a new concept to the PvE gameplay. Whether or not they are perfect or do what they do perfectly is another thing.
The automobile was innovative but not perfect by a long shot.
And as far as Pirates of the burning sea, I think what he is saying is that it's not only postitioning but other factors as well.
In Conan, I haven't yet played an mmo that uses combinations quite like that though I do know that in LOTRO the Warden has introduced a somewhat similar gameplay.
I suppose people need to take it as "what gameplay elements have been introduced that make the mmo scene a bit fresher".
So sad that THESE are the most innovative features, and they are ...how do I say... not even slightly significant or big? Hell, ship combat was in Dark Age of Camelot.
Public quests is probably it.
Why arent legendary items on this list from LOTRO, its one of the better innovations ...Combat combos and PQ's arent realy innovative at all , in my opinion
Those PQ's aren't really that different then the zone events in CoH. The Rikti attacks are a zone-wide event that include multiple stages. Granted the WAR PQ's are more numerous and focused, but conceptually very similar. But WAR did take the idea to a new level and I bet it will be copied.
The PQ's aren't that popular in WAR for the same reason that ALL PvE isn't popular in WAR. The scenarios offer a more direct route of advancement. If Mythic made a WAR server with no scenarios I'd probably play it again. It would liven up the PQ's and focus people more on the open world PvP.
Thats a toughie between CSM and PQs, But i think CSM takes the cake.
I think having a group of players, hand picked by players is a awesome thing and it helps a lot, If you have never heard of CSM or understand what it is or wanna just check it out. Check this link it is EVE Online Fanfest 2008 - CSM Panel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCfMaBqbtRY
PQs are a nice new feature, and its about time they added this but i don't think its really as good as the CSM.
I actually had to flip a coin. Either potbs, or CSM. CSM won with 2:1 after 3 tries..
Both are imo very interesting, but for different reasons. The ship to ship combat in potbs is something i haven't seen before, very interesting and strategic. The rest of the game was very boring and standard stuff, but the combat and relatively slow pace was refreshing.
The CSM is a signal to other game companies to finally listen to their playerbase in a coordinated manner. From the people who got elected, i have not seen a single one who could be described as a whiner. They all seem to be pretty mature about it, and i think it will greatly improve the signal to noise ratio for CCP. People who care about their game voted people who spent a lot of thought on how to improve it, and those get to tell CCP about it. The CSM did achieve some small bits, so i'm confident that CCP actually takes it seriously enough.
Lord of the Rings Online trait and deed system / Legendary Weapon System
I nearly fell out my chair laughing at some of the comments here. I especially found the ones about DDO having best combat system to be oh so damn funny. Personally I would say it is a toss up between AoC and War.
I don't think any of these features give the MMO genre a new direction, so though not inventions they should be so innovative that the MMO community at large at least could notice a difference on the long run. What about the phasing feature in WotLK?
I voted for pq, at least it can be implementet in a great variety of games and has to do with the game itself. Always when democrazy is mentioned I get sceptical, it's often more about make-up than real structural changes, wherever democrazy is offered. As I have understood the combo system in AoC only make a difference to the melee classes, so it doesn't even play a role for all the players within the game that made the innovation. PotBS nomination is to particular, will only apply to that one category of games.
Once again pq got my vote out of lack of anything better.
Public Quests aren't exactly innovative, and can be found in excessively similar forms in other games ranging from Asheron's Call 2 to World of Warcraft.
Out of all those choices, ship combat might be the most innovative, but even then, I'm not sure that is innovative.
While I don't think any of those ideas are "brand new" I think the point Stradden is trying to make is that they are big ticket influencers in the MMO world. Things that are re-engineered or reintroduced in such a way that they have an impact on the MMO genre as "new".
Looking at the list and even trying to look past the word innovation I still can't pick one and wish there was a 'none of the above' option. I don't think any of those features will have a long term impact on MMOs.
Public quests are showing themselves to be community inhibitors, generally lackluster and as Mythic has implemented them they are about the uninspiring content ever put in an MMO. I doubt anyone will look at them as a template for a positive game mechanic, unless someone can figure out how to make them work. This MIGHT be the one feature on this list that may reappear in any meaningful way in future MMOs... again assuming someone can make it work without the flaws Warhammer has implemented in them.
Ship combat... done already and wont be the last time I'm sure.
Stellar council is the same thing as galactic senators, class representatives, etc. Been done many times.
Conan combat system I doubt will influence any future games considering the condition of the game. The combat just didn't grab enough people to cause enough interest in players to justify new games switching methods. Maybe someone can build upon this, because on paper it sounds like an interesting concept.
Oddly enough the two features that I think will have a long term impact on MMOs are not on the list.
Phasing I think will see more use in future games after witnessing how it can be implemented. Done before or not I can't really say, but I have been very impressed with what I have seen so far in Warcraft.
Legendary weapons and bind to account items in both LOTRO/WoW both look to be great concepts that other games will adopt. The first time I heard of this type of thing was in UOX [UO2] intelligent weapon system, but that game never went live.
My thoughts exactly.
I think the legendary weapons idea from Moria is going to be very popular and get "coopted" by other games.
I had to vote for AoC although the ship combat in PoBS was pretty good also.
However the legendary system from LoTRO's Moria along with the new Warden's gambit system and the Rune keepers sysem of damage vs healing depending on what you had been using are pretty innovative also.
I would be interested in knowing what is your best MMO combat system then?
I agree, even more it isn't the first time Turbine introduice a "First" in a MMO.
Not sure but didn't DDO where the first one to have character collision detection?
None of them honestly. Best is very subjective when dealing with something like entertainment. What one person thinks is the "best" another person might think is the "worse". So saying and arguing over things like that are funny to me. You know sort of like those endless debates about graphics. In the end the only thing that matters is A) Is it fun? and B) Does it work for the game?
I personally thought DDO's combat was the worse thing I had ever touched in my life. Does it matter? Nope. Should it matter? Nope. Sorry but it just causes me to laugh uncontrollably when I see post like the DDO combat ones. Because in their minds DDO does have the best combat. It's not something you can prove, yet they clutch to it like it's a fact. I'm just crazy like that. (In that I find it hilarious) Sorry if the DDO fans took offense to it, but I do the samething when people talk about Eve-Online.
I went with the Council of Stellar Management. I think that it offered the largest leap forward in innovative additions to an MMO out of the lsit, although I would say AoC's combat and PotBS ship combat aren't too far behind.
Have you played the game, or even read the article describing why it was different? Did you read my earlier post in this thread discussing how it was different? I'll grant you, you use WSAD, but the last time I checked, you don't have to worry about whether your avatar is broadside or face on, you don't generally need to worry about how the wind direction is going to effect your foot based avatar...
Seriously, maybe reading before posting a scathing criticism is in order as this matter has been addressed several times both in the article and WITHIN THIS THREAD. Just saying.
Voyage Century/Bounty Bay already did it two years ago. PotBS's ship combat is still in no way innovative, wind or not.
I went with PQ's though I dont believe any of these are spectacular innovations. People suggest that PQs are solo play mostly, usually they havnt played in a zone flip in tier 4, pqs have to be done to help and when the main cities are sacked they are required as well. (thats not always a good thing being a requirement) but what PQs give is an option to participate with other players without needing a group. There is a fair number of people who may be in the mood for soloing at times and grouping others.
AoC's combat system seems interesting however it looks like it will get improved upon by both funcom and the next set of MMOs who use it.
The CSM seems a good idea, somewhat innovative but the question remains, just how much will the devs take out of the input from players elected by players? I played Eve for about 9 months total, like the way the game is setup, just couldnt continue to play it due to lack of a social setup (if you cant find gathering a fleet of friends or a guild it gets stale quickly)
Never played PoTBS but sounds like a decent alternative for battle.
It will be interesting to see if any of these are improved upon with next years games and in these games themselves.
I usually show up at this site once a year to vote for EVE, being the zealot of this game that I am. But today I come for a different reason, and that's for Pirates of the Burning Sea.
EVE's CSM is neat in that they are giving the players a more formal outlet to voice their concerns other than the mess that is the forums. But I still feel that there's something amiss by calling it a "democracy". Sure, the players appoint their spokepersons through a traditional secret ballot. But it has been firmly stated by CCP that this body of players has no definitate impact on the game. CCP has (and in my honest opinion, should) final say on what gets added to the game and what doesn't. The low voter turnout on the CSM elections leads me to believe that most players realize this, and are not all that excited about this feature.
Of course, progress is progress, and it is something neat and new. But I find it hardly the big deal they make it out to be.
I played on the PotBS beta, and I found the combat system to be nothing short of excellent. Never before have I found myself diving into history books, studying old naval battles of Nelson's time in order to give me an edge in combat. Read the online manual and ship database and you'll see the incredable amount of time and research that went into portraying the ships the way they were in the age of sail.
I acknowladge of course that they are far from the first software company to impliment a wind system in a game. I can recall strategy titles all the way back to the 90s that took wind speed and direction into account. However, their system is a first for an MMO, and skillfully done in that the controls and concepts are easy to pick up and understand, yet real practice and strategy is needed to make use of them. I was able to surprise plenty of players in my small, but agile cutter, attacking larger ships when the wind was in my favor. There was nothing more pleasing than swooping in on a larger Galleon or Brig when I held the weather gage, shooting away her sails, then peeling away when they found I could bear closer to the wind then they could. There were plenty of people who think that you can just sail straight up to someone, turn at the last minute, and deliver a broadside. Those who do usually end up being the first ones to go to the bottom. =P
This was one of the few games where the level of a player wasn't nearly as important as the ability to handle a ship, and brought a lot of strategy back into the MMO genre. I cast my vote for Pirates of the Burning Sea. =)
Keep going back. You've got nine more years to go til you hit "UO 1997"
Keep going back. You've got nine more years to go til you hit "UO 1997"
He he funny I was wondering, played Ultima 1 to... but missed UO
I should have added for 3d MMO not isometric ones!
But then it would be AC! :)
I have to check out DDO again. Haven't played it since launch and I'm interested in seeing what's new there.
I agree completely with you on Phasing. It really added an immersion layer to WoW that had not been there previously, and it is nothing like setting up "instances". You can't even tell, and the story-telling potential, which was indeed used in WoW, is great. It is shocking that it isn't on the list.
As you mentioned the Stellar council has been done before, but frankly it's a choice so EVE online can sweep the nominations for the 3rd year in a row, as this is the single biggest eve-online fan base website with the exception of its own web page.
The staff here knows this, and likely encourages it to keep traffic high, which is a perfectly reasonable thing for them to do.
A post just 2 or three above this that states "I come here once a year to vote for Eve Online" states what I just explained perfectly.
None of them honestly. Best is very subjective when dealing with something like entertainment. What one person thinks is the "best" another person might think is the "worse". So saying and arguing over things like that are funny to me. You know sort of like those endless debates about graphics. In the end the only thing that matters is A) Is it fun? and B) Does it work for the game?
I personally thought DDO's combat was the worse thing I had ever touched in my life. Does it matter? Nope. Should it matter? Nope. Sorry but it just causes me to laugh uncontrollably when I see post like the DDO combat ones. Because in their minds DDO does have the best combat. It's not something you can prove, yet they clutch to it like it's a fact. I'm just crazy like that. (In that I find it hilarious) Sorry if the DDO fans took offense to it, but I do the samething when people talk about Eve-Online.
The worst thing you ever touched in your life? Everyone is entitled to opinions, but your statements are a bit contracictory. If your opinion doesn't matter, then why inject it into a discussion with no reasoning behind it?
The fact that you "laugh uncontrollably" over someone elses opinion is no better than them defending it in an online conversation.
In my oppinion Ship Combat in PotBS is the most inovative thing in the past few years, because it makes you think a bit, and every fight can be different.
Although I agree with the other innovations you mentioned this is not that innovative. I only say this because Voyage Century Online, a free cash shop game, did this nearly a full year before PotBS did. Sure their version was a little bit simpler than PotBS's but that is what made it 100 times better in my opinion. Wind direction, wind speed, amunition/cannon range and ship boarding were all done by Voyage Century first. Maybe that game should be on your list instead.
Bren
Combo Combat in AoC without a doubt. Turned combat from an auto-attack and mash hotkey when ready to a more spontaneous have to pay attention combat. The combos really added the xtra variety to the gameplay.
Agree with above fully. One thing is to take something that previously existed and tweak it like the WAR questing thing, or the combat on ships... What's the next combat on planes, flames, in the water, on a branch... I mean that is stricktly speaking not inovation. Innovation is getting the idea and to develop an entirely new way to do things. AoC's combat is doing this. AoC's combat is basically showing the industry a new way to do it, regadless if it is in siege, on a boat up in the air or whatever. It's the combo system, that for it's first time was seen in AoC. AoC combat is totally and fundamentally a different idea.
I Still don't understand how LoTRO's Legendary Item System is not on that list.
Of the ones that are i guess PQ's where a nice idea that was lousy implemented.
I agree that I am a little disappointed that Turbines ' legendary items system did not make the list. A lot of thought went into the system and it has potential to grow and change as players demands change. I voted for WAR public quest though this is not totally innovative.... as LoTRO used a similar system in one of their free content updates where the whole server worked toward a single objective... though WAR goes a step further and I will give them that and my vote because LoTRO is not a choice.
Word!
PQ from Warhammer wins the innovative award if I had any say in it.
How do you guys at mmorpg.com figure the CSM of Eve Online to be innovative? Anarchy Online had this thing for years in their ARK and Professional program, allthough in a slightly different form. They even recruited people to work for them through it to help shape AO. CSM is nothing new, it's an old idea with hardly a twist. So they get to meet the developers. Whoop de doo! Yep, I can totally see how that is one of the best innovations of 2008
This is a joke right? Trolls?
Can someone please explain to me how the combo combat in AoC is any different than the combo combat introduced in DAoC way back when? Seems pretty much the same concept to me, just done a bit differently.
Hence I just can't grasp how this is considered that innovative to be considered in this thread.
Can someone please explain to me how the combo combat in AoC is any different than the combo combat introduced in DAoC way back when? Seems pretty much the same concept to me, just done a bit differently.
Hence I just can't grasp how this is considered that innovative to be considered in this thread.
Its not, but these noobs are so used to their kiddie WoW combat, and have never tried any of the better games from a few years ago. So of course they think Age of Fail is cutting edge. Its not innovative.
Its not, but these noobs are so used to their kiddie WoW combat, and have never tried any of the better games from a few years ago. So of course they think Age of Fail is cutting edge. Its not innovative.
could someone tell me why none of the ACTUAL innovations in the mmo-realm for 2008 are listed as choices?
seriously, wtf...
What the heck? here we go again ,,the two most influential innovators of all time not even under consideration?
Square's in game language translator alone should win an Emmy or Oscar lmao.Sure not a 2008 innovation but the game is still played in 2008,and i doubt anything innovative can touch it anywhere.
SOE's mentor system introduced into EQ2 is an awesome innovation for the grouping woes and was just RECENTLY adopted by Square,figures two smart companies realize the importance.Well i guess if your a weak/bland devloper making solo fest games then calling them MMO's [lol]you would never think about a mechanic to help grouping. all i got to say in the terminology of the BRITS is BAH/HOGWARTS, grr even.
Guess who the first game was to list banning of botters/RMT farmers/cheats? SQUARE FFXI.Soon after they listed thousands of bannings ,EQ2 followed then Blizzard followed with there WOW bannings.I think if Square did not start this trend i doubt we would have seen the mass bannings against RMT botters.Umm somebody wake up NCSOFT there game is still the worlds haven for botters.
Blob and nonsens posting. AoC's combat system is by fare the most novel idea/development out in 2008.
Age of Conan gets my vote. The combo system made the game really fun, however, the best innovation of 2008 I would have to say is Age of Conan's Fatalilties. Hitting a guy square in the jewels then ripping his head off with your bare hands can never get old
None of the options are really overly inspired.
How long before virtual reality becomes the norm in MMORPGs? It's not far off. The implications of stepping into the game are practically endless.
Game play. How does gaming change when the sensations become real? Perhaps it will favor those with a high tolerance for pain.
Character development. A player's reputation takes on a whole new meaning when it becomes indistinguishable from reality.
Guild structure. How similar will real world social patterns and guild relationships be?
Not a great year for innovation really, lots of evolution but very little revolution.
Dispite not being as well implemented as I'd have liked I've voted for public quests because increaseing the ease of playing co-operativly is very worthwhile and I hope other developers build on it.
Can someone please explain to me how the combo combat in AoC is any different than the combo combat introduced in DAoC way back when? Seems pretty much the same concept to me, just done a bit differently.
Hence I just can't grasp how this is considered that innovative to be considered in this thread.
Sure I played DAoC too so I explain the difference.
DAoC still had an auto-attack, I could run up to a mob and click attack and, if I wanted to, sit back and just watch my paladin beat the mob down. I had various hotkeys for when I either parried or blocked so that I could do an additional attack. That was fun but still had the "auto-attack mash hotkey" system I mentioned above. It was a vast improvement at the time from what was out there.
There is no auto-attack in AoC, period. I have to press keys to attack upper left, high middle, etc. If you are spamming Upper Left attacks, the mob's AI will then start defending the UL area (noted by white rings) reducing your damage. So I have to pay attention and adjust my attacks based off how the mob is defending, which can also affect the combos. Don't pick a combo with a final blow in the UL if the mob is actively defending that area.
Of the 4 PQs are the least innovative. There are innovations inside the group itself but that applies to all groups, not just PQs.
Why the least innovative? Simple. Almost 10 years ago I played Asheron's Call. I went into the Lugian Citadels and later the Olthoi Horde Nest. They were areas which were, when you first encountered them, impossible to solo. So what you did was you went in and formed ad hoc groups with the people who were already present. You shared the spawns, watched each other's backs and when it came time to leave gave warning to them that you're moving out and they might want to get someplace a tad shallower lest they die from the added spawn.
Does it have the specific mechanic of WARs PQs? No. Did it have the same feel? Yes.
What WAR has done is reverse the ever increasing trend of taking the massively multiplayer aspect out of MMOs through tons and tons of instances. They moved it back to public areas where people form ad hoc groups of whomever is already present. They provided structure to it but as for ground shattering innovation it isn't in recovering what was once lost.
Innovation, to me, is something that once created and experienced is something that I miss in every other MMO that doesn't have it. Ship combat isn't anything new, nor PQs. AoC's combo system is just a veneer over what DAoC did a while back. I picked the Council only because it isn't something that the others have done. Direct customer representation to the developers and mods. Probably might have saved PotBS but I digress.
No, innovative features to me are all from MMOs past.
Shadowbane for its nations (guilds swearing to guilds) which would go a long way to solving a lot of the problems plaguing guild structures today.
Shadowbane's crafting system. Flawed as it was it felt right that the players, who were heroes, would hire people to craft for them.
EQ's guild system, especially the in-game guild advertisements are an ideal example. Why, I'm looking for a guild, let me click on the guild tab and see adverts for guilds looking for members. 3 letters to every other MMO out there. DUH! Why every other MMO has me going outside the game for this critical piece of social interaction is beyond me.
CoH's character customization. Never seeing a clone of you is priceless.
WoW's inclusion of LUA for real modification of the UI and their sensible approach to what it can and cannot automate. Brilliant!
In-game mail, though that's becoming ubiquitous.
How about gold-spam filtering from launch and not months later? I can dream.
Each of those are examples of things that I miss on every new MMO I try and every single one trumps anything on the list this time around. Aside from mailboxes none of them are ubiquitous. Until they are I think they should get contention far before anything on the list.
Sure I played DAoC too so I explain the difference.
DAoC still had an auto-attack, I could run up to a mob and click attack and, if I wanted to, sit back and just watch my paladin beat the mob down. I had various hotkeys for when I either parried or blocked so that I could do an additional attack. That was fun but still had the "auto-attack mash hotkey" system I mentioned above. It was a vast improvement at the time from what was out there.
There is no auto-attack in AoC, period. I have to press keys to attack upper left, high middle, etc. If you are spamming Upper Left attacks, the mob's AI will then start defending the UL area (noted by white rings) reducing your damage. So I have to pay attention and adjust my attacks based off how the mob is defending, which can also affect the combos. Don't pick a combo with a final blow in the UL if the mob is actively defending that area.
I did not say there was no difference, but the poll stated combo combat and it is quite obvious that combo attacks were introduced in DAoC. The only thing different was addressing the area where the attack occurs, that was new in Conan, not combos. As to auto attack, in DAoC, if you did not use combo attacks in that game you were wasting your time playing because that was where all the damage was done.
So we can fault MMORPG for labeling the actual innovation wrong. It should have said locational combat verses combo combat.
And Greyed, an excellent post on the past of what real innovation occured in this genre. I agree, there most certainly was none of that this year.
Hmmm.... although I do think the PQs in War are a nice idea they're to many of them and you need a lot of people. I actually like the Tomb of Knowledge, tough its more of a feature.
I guess AoC would get my vote as I found the combat to be a lot of fun
Sure I played DAoC too so I explain the difference.
DAoC still had an auto-attack, I could run up to a mob and click attack and, if I wanted to, sit back and just watch my paladin beat the mob down. I had various hotkeys for when I either parried or blocked so that I could do an additional attack. That was fun but still had the "auto-attack mash hotkey" system I mentioned above. It was a vast improvement at the time from what was out there.
There is no auto-attack in AoC, period. I have to press keys to attack upper left, high middle, etc. If you are spamming Upper Left attacks, the mob's AI will then start defending the UL area (noted by white rings) reducing your damage. So I have to pay attention and adjust my attacks based off how the mob is defending, which can also affect the combos. Don't pick a combo with a final blow in the UL if the mob is actively defending that area.
I did not say there was no difference, but the poll stated combo combat and it is quite obvious that combo attacks were introduced in DAoC. The only thing different was addressing the area where the attack occurs, that was new in Conan, not combos. As to auto attack, in DAoC, if you did not use combo attacks in that game you were wasting your time playing because that was where all the damage was done.
So we can fault MMORPG for labeling the actual innovation wrong. It should have said locational combat verses combo combat.
And Greyed, an excellent post on the past of what real innovation occured in this genre. I agree, there most certainly was none of that this year.
Well the main difference is that in AoC the fights are designed around the idea that you will be doing combos. You could do normal attacks in DAoC and still win a fight, plus the mobs did not defend themselves specifically against certain attacks. Again, DAoC also had an auto-attack AoC does not. Perhaps I'll concede that AoC is an "evolved" form of DAoC's combat system.
Plus I also like how you can dodge in AoC. Not some percentage value that is automatic, but you actually double tap the WASD keys and your character can dodge an attack (if you time it right).
i'm sorry, but the most innovative features poll really didn't include the most innovative features introduced into mmos in 2008, not even close. unless the mmorpg.com staff limited it's picks to the couple of games they play.
which, judging by how horrid the correspondent articles tend to be... i'm thinking there's a host of mmo's that the mmorpg.com staff doesn't touch.
Wow, what an entirely unhelpful post. If you feel that they missed the boat you could, you know, actually post what you think were the most innovative features. Of course to do that would mean putting yourself out to be the target of similar, unhelpful, insipid "critics" such as yourself.
I've seen interesting new features in this game.www.xsyon.com.mmorpg.com has the hole information about it from early January but they have'nt listed yet.I hope they list this game soon.I'ts going to be released 15th April.
Do you have a link to the video, QnA or interview where you saw the new features?