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General : Best Expansion in 2008
Posted Dec 03, 2008 by Jon Wood
Today, we present our nominees for the Best Expansion in 2008 category of our 2008 Reader's Choice Awards. In order to qualify for nomination, the product must have been an expansion (and not simply billed as an update. This year, we are including both paid for and free expansions in our list of nominees.
- Empyrean Age (EVE Online)
- Mines of Moria (Lord of the Rings Online)
- Seeds of Destruction (EverQuest)
The Shadow Odyssey (EverQuest II)- The Shadow Odyssey (EverQuest II)
- Wrath of the Lich King (World of Warcraft)
Vote for the Best Expansion in 2008
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GOGOGOGO !!!
Mines of Moria easily.
I'm very pleased to see that WOTLK was not even nominated. These people must have some sense!
Naw, they're there, just somehow got left off of the news item list.
Empyrean Age (EVE Online)
cause I am sci fi freak
And they didn't even mention the phasing in WotLK. Hmm.. I have never thought like this before, seems fishy.
If it wasn't mentioned in the blurb about it in the article, it wasn't mentioned on the expansion promotional webpage, but I'm glad to see you've got the conspiracy helmet on.
Just because you don't agree with our choices doesn't mean there's "something fishy".
Pretty straight forward....
2.8 million copies in 24 hours.
I don't play WoW, but it seems no other game can match it's overpowering MMO force...
PS: In case no one noticed, EQ2's expansion actually charted #5 on NPD sales during the week of it's release ...this has never happened for EQ2...yet LOTRO did not even hit the top 50..so, if I had a second vote, it would be EQ2 for showing it still has the power to attract players after a dismal launch and 4 years running.
If it wasn't mentioned in the blurb about it in the article, it wasn't mentioned on the expansion promotional webpage, but I'm glad to see you've got the conspiracy helmet on.
Just because you don't agree with our choices doesn't mean there's "something fishy".
If I am reading this correctly, he doesn't say that disagreeing with their choices doesn't mean there's NOT something fishy either. Hmmm..... What could he mean by leaving that open like that? Maybe Stradden is sending us mixed messages. It can only mean one thing... but what is it??
Simple: Eat at Joe's.
Despite some bugs it's Moria for me. Not only the biggest most interesting Dungeon I have seen in any game, the new classes and the item system are a great and new addition to the game, while wotlk brought more of the old. I admit, Norhtrend is beautifully done and some of the quests are interesting, but it became boring very soon due to being too easy and all the people rushing to max-level ignoring the content and storys on their hunt for epics.
Poll is asking for your opinion, not for business figures you seem so excited about as if they mattered to likes or dislikes of a game. I'm sure you can do better. Next time :
Read the question and try to understand it
Vote according to your credo.
Clearly Turbine again.
Chalk up another win for Turbine in this category.
Definitely Turbine for Moria for me. I am not a huge fans of playing in dungeons and yet I am completely blown away by what they accomplished with Moria. I think this one is a slam dunk for Moria but you can't argue with WoW's sales numbers either.
easily Mines of Moria, however WoW has a strong following and may steal this on numbers alone (sadly)
Moria - not even a contest. Most amazing landscapes ever, Moria itself is mind-blowingly awesome, and legendary weapons is probably one of the best new game systems I've ever seen. compare that to the 'death night' and more of the same grind and icy wastelends. Yeah, Moria without a doubt. thanks again Turbine!!!
Poll is asking for your opinion, not for business figures you seem so excited about as if they mattered to likes or dislikes of a game. I'm sure you can do better. Next time :
Read the question and try to understand it
Vote according to your credo.
QFT.
Lemmings, shesh...
Quanitity = Quality? I don't think so.
Moria easily gets my vote. One of the best expansions I have ever played.
Gonna win it....Turbine's the best....Voted LotRO....No contest!
Moria and Wotlk is not even close to get my vote.
I wonder what the age demographic is for WoW. Anyone know what the statistics are? I'd wager that the vast majority fall into the 13 - 21 range. Add to that the massive amount of money spent on advertising for WoW and media bias to the game and you have record sales. That doesn't make a great game nor a great expansion in Wrath of the Lich King.
The Mines of Moria - Khazad-dûm - from the Tolkien works is the granddaddy of all dungeons and the basis for most any dungeon in the gaming world today. Turbine's implimentation and rendering of the Mines of Moria is ground-breaking in it's scope and size (it is being looked at by the Guinness Book of World Records), breath-taking in it's vastness and beauty, and with only a few minor bugs, most of which have already been fixed in two patches barely two weeks out from launch, the launch was nearly flawless. The two new classes are well balanced and fun to play, the Legendary system is an awesome addition, and the two other areas added besides the Mines themselves - Eregion and the first part of Lothlórien - are beautiful and full of well written content and storyline. Add to that formula the new Monsters, improvements to PvMP play, raised level cap, two new character slots, new 3-, 6-, and 12-man instances, Crafting Guilds, quest bags, key rings, lowered requirements for cosmetic clothing, and tons of new content, equipment, and resources, and you have a truly great expansion. Needless to say, Turbine's Mines of Moria got my vote.
The other three - Seeds of Destruction, The Shadow Odyssey, Empyrean Age - all have their strong points ( I even purchased and installed TSO but have yet to play because MoM is occupying all of my attention and time at present), but none can even compare to the grandeur of the Mines themselves.
(EDIT - Turbine's biggest flaw is their lack of marketing strategy and miniscule advertising. I truly believe that with advertising of only half of what WoW spends, LOTRO would clobber it's competitor in sales and popularity.)
Not that it deserves to win but we all know WotLK is going too.
Have to give it to Turbine again on this one. Great company, great game, great community. Coulnd't ask for better than this with the current games out there.
Mines of Moria!
If you like Lotr or not, you have to admitt thats one fine expansion. Dont see too many expansions like that anymore. Regardless of the outcome here, Mines of Moria is the best expansion on that list!
You've been a member of this site for 4 years, and you don't know this entire process is a sham? EVE always wins.
I voted for EQ's SoD. I loved the addition of the mercenary. Too bad, the game is empty. EQ just isn't fun without other people.
You've been a member of this site for 4 years, and you don't know this entire process is a sham? EVE always wins.
I voted for EQ's SoD. I loved the addition of the mercenary. Too bad, the game is empty. EQ just isn't fun without other people.
The Eve thing was exactly what I was thinking too. No idea if it really deserves it (or any of the accolades) but their player base is so fervent, it's like they are on a Jihad.
Edit: Oh, and Moria for me too!
WoW is incredibly shallow entertainment. And I heard the last expansion, which is a rip-off of Tolkien's Witch King, IMO, was horribly disappointing. I played it when it was new, did the first XP, and then wished I hadn't. Same Warner Brothers cartoon setting, same shallow lore, same old stuff. To me, WoW is old news.
LOTRO gets my vote for the depth of lore, gorgeous graphics, epic locations, and tons of stuff to do even at max level. Moria is awe inspiring. I can't wait to see what we get in book updates and next year's expansion. I feel so spoiled! You get more bang for your dollar with Turbine, that's for sure.
Couldn't have said it better myself !
The lord of The Rings Online: Mines Of Moria FTW!!!!!!!!!! 
Really, I think to qualify for voting on this you'd have to play all the MMOs and their corresponding X-pacs; certanly, Eve's X-pac brings the biggest change to the existing game and mught be considered the most important just from that standpoint. I play WoW right now and am enjoying WotLK overall, but it wouldn't surprise me if EQ2's is better. Anyhoo, I obstain from voting because I've played all these games but not the X-pac of any but WoW so feel I'm not qualified.
EVE's Expansion should be compared with any number of LOTRO's FREE expansions/updates over the passed year. Having experienced both Moria and Empyrean, Moria wins hands down. This isn't a knock against EVE really. It's just that CCP has chosen to deliver ONLY free content, and thus the size and scope just can't compete with a paid expansion. I wish CCP would actually get financing to release a paid expansion that improves their game at a pace faster than a moving glacier on Mars.
Mines of Moria here as well. Best expansion of the year, no competition.
I voted eq2 shadow odyssey, i am enjoying it a lot.
I am surprised to see EQ2 got in the list.
Unless you want to be forced to FULL GROUP with the CORRECT CLASSES to suceed & have any fun, EQ2 has nothing for you.
TSO is the WORST EQ2 EXPANSION EVER !
Last expansion was solo oriented now it's just FORCED GROUPING.
EQ2 needs to find a balance as solo'ers, duo'ers, trio'ers are starting to cancel their accounts.
After 4 years of paying SoE, we have closed our 4 accounts.
So if you want to log in & find a full group all the time, EQ2 is the perfect game for you.
Mines of Moria !
Best expansion of the year! Ofc. Wow sold 1.4 milj expansion in 24h, but wow has more then 10milj players!, Just give Lotro 8 months and there will be 6-8milj players on it..
Cheers!
Off topic, and for that I will apologise and not continue past this post, but some things people say... sheesh
EQ2 is heavy on solo content. You admit that by stating the last expansion was orientated on solo content, and thats without the older content that has been constantly solofied and amde easier.
This one isnt. This one restores a little balance by being orientated towards groups. That seems right to me. Yet more solo content would have a lot of people leaving for that reason also.
Are you one of those people that throws a tantrum as soon as you don't get want you want?
Are you one of those people that when you leave a game you have to go to every forum and destroy it? Creating new accounts to do so no less? Is it a case that if something dosent suit you then its rubbish? Can you not be objective in the slightest?
Thats just ugly. I'm sorry, but it is.
Nice 1st post :(
PS. Yep, EQ2 for me here. SOE have really had their expansions sorted for a long time now, and this is another quality one.
Co-op social gameplay in MMORPGs? Yes please.
Eq2 Shadow odyssey for me. Best expansion I have ever bought. Huge amounts of content with 20 new zones, ranging from the easy to the extremelly tough. 3 weeks of constant play , and I have only managed to see a fraction of the new content. Very nice follow up to the dissapointing RoK.
Best thing about this expansion is that they have taken raid play to group zones. Killing the bosses is not tank and spank anymore, need to figure out scripts, proper groups and equipment, figure out timers , react to what mobs do....the works
Still I will probably try mines of Moria after all this positive feedback here. Played Lorto for month of release and was quite dissapointed. I hope you guys don't make me pay money for nothing.
Off topic, and for that I will apologise and not continue past this post, but some things people say... sheesh
EQ2 is heavy on solo content. You admit that by stating the last expansion was orientated on solo content, and thats without the older content that has been constantly solofied and amde easier.
This one isnt. This one restores a little balance by being orientated towards groups. That seems right to me. Yet more solo content would have a lot of people leaving for that reason also.
Are you one of those people that throws a tantrum as soon as you don't get want you want?
Are you one of those people that when you leave a game you have to go to every forum and destroy it? Creating new accounts to do so no less? Is it a case that if something dosent suit you then its rubbish? Can you not be objective in the slightest?
Thats just ugly. I'm sorry, but it is.
Nice 1st post :(
PS. Yep, EQ2 for me here. SOE have really had their expansions sorted for a long time now, and this is another quality one.
Co-op social gameplay in MMORPGs? Yes please.
You make a lot of assumptions...
But you aren't Nostradamus & you do not know me, so your assumptions aren't all correct.
Firstly, I did not make a new account.
I have subscribed here for about 2-3 YEARS. I just never felt compelled to write here, but I saw this topic & felt I would. I hope we have that sorted now & it falls within the boundaries of being permissible by you.
For your reference, I didn't post that much on the EQ2 forums either, but I read them every day for 4 years.
When I did post it was mostly in regards to small group content.
Why? Because that where my game enjoyment came from.
In point of fact, I could actually post there now, as I paid for 6 months back in July. I won't bother posting there now. I have just given up, as you get tired of banging your head on a brick wall.
I have played EQ2 since launch & have invested a sizeable amount of money in subscriptions & expansions along the way. I was a 'shareholder'.
Am I displeased with the direction of a game I played & loved for 4 years, has seriously compromised my play style? You bet I am...
Did I say the whole game was crap? No I didn't.
I said...
Unless you want to be forced to FULL GROUP with the CORRECT CLASSES to succeed & have any fun, EQ2 has nothing for you.
Once upon a time, EQ2 used to have something for every play style.
They ARE losing some their 'bread & butter money', as Husband & Wife teams ARE leaving.
My husband & I aren't playing anything else & for that matter have not played anything else for 4 years.
We were loyal EQ2 subscribers, who quietly did our own thing.
We never made waves on the forums about balance & classes. We logged in & had 'our' fun.
Mostly doing things that were challenging or fun for us, but would be dull for those who love the thrill of good loot. But it didn't matter to us.
As long as we could find something not-completely-pointless to do, we were happy.
Seriously, it doesn't take much to keep Hubby & Wife teams happy.
But there comes a time when you have to balance out the return (enjoyment/content) with the financial costs. For us it was time to go.. 4 accounts closed. (one still active till it dies)
RoK may have had a lot of solo content, but after that solo quest line was finished, the only thing left to do was grind out endless writs for either tradeskill, faction and Guild status. If you don't full group you will not even get past the doorway of the new zones. Then the forced grouping begins for your characters progression.
TSO has at most a months worth of content for solo'ers & duo'ers. Then you are stuck with writ grinding for the next 11 months.
EQ2 needs to find a balance as solo'ers, duo'ers, trio'ers are starting to cancel their accounts.
People will always view their game, from their own experiences. I speak from my own experience.
I will close by re-iterating the following-
So if you want to log in & find a full group all the time, EQ2 is the perfect game for you.
It was long ago & far away & it was so much better than it is today....
Moria wins this easily, Turbine are Masters of there craft in both Enviroment and Lore immersion,they are 2nd to none in this respect.
I can not vote for Turbine till they make a game with good animations. Mine of Moria still bring crap-tastic animations to a plain game that is just a redo of every other game idea.
Yes the dungeons are for groups, almost have always been that way for most dungeons, as for the overland i have done every quest there solo, unless they ask you to go into a dungeon, and there was a poll months back that asked the community what new content would be like that they wanted and the majority voted group orientated stuff, so they made the dungeons for grouping and the moors for solo play. If you did not take part in the survey months ago I wouldnt complain, thats like not voting and then bitching about the president.
id have to go with WoW Lotr still doesnt match up though its makes a close second. Only people that say otherwise are just haters or simply don't like wow
I thought this too.
This is not a "best of" competition actually. The only way you could honestly judge that is to PLAY all of the expansions. I have played, like you, all of these games, but...I haven't played all of the expansions.
However...you may as well vote for whatever you are playing NOW, because all the other fanbois will. They won't even take a moment to CONSIDER that they're not qualified to judge expansions that they've not fully played or played at ALL, so....you might as well follow suit.
This entire "Reader's Choice" thing, sadly, is more about which game has the largest fanbase active on MMORPG, than it is about what is truly the "best" in ANY category.
I'm gonna break my no reply promise here, but, hey, sue me :P
You make a lot of assumptions...
Hrm... ok, I am prepared to acknowledge if I did this. Nps.
But you aren't Nostradamus & you do not know me, so your assumptions aren't all correct.
No, all I know of you is by what you post and the impression you give here.
You may wish to remember that in future.
Firstly, I did not make a new account.
No, I see that. Fair enough.
BUT the first post you made on an old existing account was this?
The point remains valid I feel.
I hope we have that sorted now & it falls within the boundaries of being permissible by you.
I never said I was in a postion, or felt the need, to give 'permission...
This just comes across as you being unduly sarky and nasty.
See what I post above about the impressions you give and the conclusions I draw about you as a person.
For your reference, I didn't post that much on the EQ2 forums either, but I read them every day for 4 years.
ok...
When I did post it was mostly in regards to small group content.
Why? Because that where my game enjoyment came from.
In point of fact, I could actually post there now, as I paid for 6 months back in July. I won't bother posting there now. I have just given up, as you get tired of banging your head on a brick wall.
This is relevant how?
I have played EQ2 since launch & have invested a sizeable amount of money in subscriptions & expansions along the way. I was a 'shareholder'.
lol don't be silly.
Buying a product dosent make you a shareholder. It makes you a customer.
Am I displeased with the direction of a game I played & loved for 4 years, has seriously compromised my play style? You bet I am...
Yep, got that by your tiny tot tantrum here.
Like I said, it was a nice first post...
Listen, I was in beta, and I played from launch, and lets be clear that my choice to play in the style I chose was destroyed in this game to make it solo/duo friendly for you anti-social types. Thats just a fact.
Why do your needs in this game outweigh mine so much?
I love the fact that people are grouping again. Your way of playing just destroyed the original community.
Did I say the whole game was crap? No I didn't.
Didi I say you did?
Boy... your an excitable one eh?
I said...
Unless you want to be forced to FULL GROUP with the CORRECT CLASSES to succeed & have any fun, EQ2 has nothing for you.
Once upon a time, EQ2 used to have something for every play style.
They ARE losing some their 'bread & butter money', as Husband & Wife teams ARE leaving.
Actually, EQ2 USED to be so more group orientated than it has been for a long while now.
I get that you and your spouse are leaving the game, but you will forgive me when I ask for evidence that others are as well? and for the reason you give?
Links are good for me.
Forgive me if I don't take your word for it, but like you say I don't know you, and to be frank, the fact that it has taken you years to post this excitedly on this account, I personally doubt you as an impartial source.
My husband & I aren't playing anything else & for that matter have not played anything else for 4 years.
We were loyal EQ2 subscribers, who quietly did our own thing.
Thats fair enough, of course, but what about my right, as a paying customer, to do my thing?
My thing, btw, is group co-op social play.
This expansion suits me.
It dosent happen to suit you. fair enough. No need to scream and holler about it though. It also dosent make it 'crap' or 'the worst ever!'. It just means it dosent suit you.
I didnt scream when the last one supported soloing eh? I just played it and enjoyed it.
I didnt take it as a personal insult, and I also didnt leave the game in a hissy fit.
We never made waves on the forums about balance & classes. We logged in & had 'our' fun.
Mostly doing things that were challenging or fun for us, but would be dull for those who love the thrill of good loot. But it didn't matter to us.
As long as we could find something not-completely-pointless to do, we were happy.
Thats great....
Seriously, it doesn't take much to keep Hubby & Wife teams happy.
Hah!
I have known some hubby/wife players to be amongst the more hardcore raiders/ PvPers out there. I have also known them to enjoy grouping and meeting other people, both together and alone.
The fact that you don't dosent mean you get to set the agenda for every husband and wife player out there.
But there comes a time when you have to balance out the return (enjoyment/content) with the financial costs. For us it was time to go.. 4 accounts closed. (one still active till it dies)
Thats fine, and thats a free choice of course.
The issue I have is you coming here and on your first post throwing such a public fit about it, calling the expansion 'the worst ever!' and such.
It obviosuly isnt, it just didnt suit you.
Tbh, if you quit over this, you prolly needed a break from the game anyhow?
RoK may have had a lot of solo content, but after that solo quest line was finished, the only thing left to do was grind out endless writs for either tradeskill, faction and Guild status. If you don't full group you will not even get past the doorway of the new zones. Then the forced grouping begins for your characters progression.
I know this is a little bit of a push, but...
Why not just group and meet new people..?
Are you now guilded? Is there not 3 other peeps within that guild that you would enjoy teaming up with? Surely after 4 years you have made some friends that you like?
TSO has at most a months worth of content for solo'ers & duo'ers. Then you are stuck with writ grinding for the next 11 months.
Surely this deoends on how often you play and for how long?
every MMORPG has this issue, or similar?
EQ2 needs to find a balance as solo'ers, duo'ers, trio'ers are starting to cancel their accounts.
As before, evidence please.
People will always view their game, from their own experiences. I speak from my own experience.
Yet you make outright statements as if they were fact...
I will close by re-iterating the following-
So if you want to log in & find a full group all the time, EQ2 is the perfect game for you.
Lol, I would LOVE to log in and find a full group all the time...
Mines of Moria. Brilliant addition to the game.
So the LotRO playerbase are all "haters" or don't like WoW?
Call me a fanboi, but having played under all the other companies in the list, Turbine is by far better in the industry with what they have done in the short amount of time they have done it. Mines of Moria is just a testiment to that fact. WoW's WotLK is not only a complete (lore-wise) ripoff of LotRO, but does not have the graphical or lore rich immersion of MoM.
Have you even played LotRO? Or did you just check out a youtube video to base your opinion on?
If it wasn't mentioned in the blurb about it in the article, it wasn't mentioned on the expansion promotional webpage, but I'm glad to see you've got the conspiracy helmet on.
Just because you don't agree with our choices doesn't mean there's "something fishy".
If you read my post closely you discover that I do not critic your choice, WotLK is there, but what I found worth noticing is that you had left out phasing, one of main new features of the expansion in the presentation.
Whether the conspiracy helmet was meant as a tool for making conspiracy theories or meant as a protection against those kind of theories I'm not sure. Anyhow I think talking about conspiracy theories is to make this issue little too serious, seems more like an inclination, I guess.
The fact that it sold well doesn't mean its a good game by any stretch. The expansion is actually quite sub par compared to Burning Crusade, which was already bottom of the barrel. For a team with hundreds of developers, proportionally, the expansions are abysmal.
Your wrong there buddy.
To myself, Moria is the only expansion up there worth money at all (I know EVE is free). WotLK introduced one new class (which you had to 55 to play anyways) and one small (compared to others) landmass (that you also had to be a high level to play). I never really heard anything big about the two EQ expansions. And I'm sure the EVE one didn't double the playable space and add a bunch of items and what not.
Mines of Moria doubled LOTROs playspace with Eregion, Lorethias and Moria, introduced two completely new classes from the start. Both classes with very unique playstyles. New items for all levels of the classes. And the legendary item system. Not only is the quantity huge, but the quality of the expansion in bar none.
Wraith of the Lich King compares to LOTRO's free updates, even with the addition of Northrend (which is really just an arctic wasteland, I wouldn't think it that interesting).
Game companies need to learn what an expansion really is. WotLK is NOT an expansion, it's a scam. MoM IS an expansion. An expansion pack should significantly add more to the game. One small landmass and a class that only high level players can use if not significant. Three areas, which combined double the playable area of LOTRO, and two new classes (with all items) and a new item system, legendary weapons, makes for something you could put money out for.
Comparable also is Star Wars: Galaxies. Trials of Obi-Wan was NOT a decent expansion. It added one planet, that was nearly all just dungeons. Not something I'd pay for. Jump to Lightspeed, on the other hand, was a great expansion. It added an entirely new dimension to gameplay.
MoM got my vote.
@ Frostbite55
You are very wrong. I don't like WoW, I have my reasons. Obviously WoW fanboys will vote for WotLK. Anyone who has experienced MoM knows it's better. Can you really justify yourself spending 40 bucks for a small island to play on and one class? I can surely justify my 85 bucks for what I got with MoM. It's higher quality, higher quantity. And all around better. I think you're just the 'hater' here, not I.
Thank You,
- Eric
Not sure how anyone can vote here unless they have played all the 6 expansions?Personally i don't like expansions,because they draw players further and further away from each other.New players joining these games feel totally alienated and have the feeling there world is DEAD,and for the most part it is.
I think if games want to do expansions they should stick to new classes/jobs /abilites.This way players will go back and interact with new players keeping the entire community alive.They can also add new mobs/weapons/armor ,new crafts/recipes.Have we EVER seen a game show some realism,like maybe the townspeople have done some excavating ,making the present maps larger/different.No need to ALWAYS make maps further away ,sometimes through warps/portals.
Oh yes, blame marketing for everything. You haven't even given any thought that the reason why WOTKL is doing so great is because its ... *gasp* good? No, that would be impossible! Its Blizzard and their brainwashing marketing schemes and hypno-advertising that made all those people go out and pay for WOTKL.
Seriously though, I pity anyone who tries to blame marketing, media bias, government conspiracy, weather, alien mind control or whatever on someone else success. If LOTRO isn't doing better then WoW in sales (WoW lore isn't as good as LOTRO, btw) then perhaps its not WoWs fault, but LOTROs? People go out of their way to pour dirt on anything just to make them feel a bit better because their personal favorite game isn't doing as good as some other game.
Why would 2.8 million people buy the game? Just because the advertisement told them to? Why do 10+ million people keep playing it too? Because they hate it?
Obviously has to go to WOW.
I haven't tried MoM so I'll take your word for the info you posted. If MoM doubled its landmass, then yeah, its a huge benefit for the game. The other features also seem to be pretty big one: 2 classes, legendary item (i like the idea very much).
But just as I don't speak out of my ass pouring dirt on MoM, you shouldn't do so to WoW. WoW is not an arctic wasteland. It has lush forests and swamps and those "magic" type of areas where theres energy all around you. Sure there are lots of snow, but its not a desert. Also, if you check the map
Northrend added about 1/4 or 1/3 of the landmass. Not as big as MoM but not that tiny either. One new class is OK too. Its not great IMO because DKs start at level 55 and are very much overpowered compared to other classes of the same level. But its a decent addition.
Lots of new crafting content rejuvenanted the whole crafting side of the game. Some crafting professions are actualy meaningfull and have a point. For example tailoring gets a recepie to make a flying carpet that acts like a mount. Cant wait to fly that!
I only touched WOTLK, but so far Im liking it. I wish it was a bit bigger, like MoM. But its not a bad expansion. Definitely worthy of a vote.
People who play LOTRO aren't praising it and Turbine just to spite WoW. It's because alot of us have tried other games (some of us have over a decade of MMORPG experience) and have come to see for ourselves what works and what doesn't. We know a good deal when we see it. There's many dynamics still in play that keep people stuck in WoW (friends, time invested, ego, etc). But that doesn't mean there aren't other gaming gems out there that are better. We just happen to feel, from experience, that Turbine has the right stuff. And LOTRO is probably the most in depth, graphically beautiful online game we have every played.
Does that make us all "WoW haters"? No.
Mines of Moria all the way!
I hope LoTRO takes GOTY again too in 2008- beating WoW again:) I find it amazing that Turbine produced a "Game of The Year" game when Blizz had a Zillion dollar budget last year!
I voted mines of moria but I will certainly curb my commentar on this particular topic as I've not been able to experience all of these expansions as a matter of fact only played wotlk and mines of moria
They do have a /feedback command in the game where you can give your feed back on what you like or dislike to help them make a better game for their customers. And they have this new survey you can take too.
Heres the link on the new survey
http://eq2players.station.sony.com/news_archive_content.vm?id=1994§ion=News&locale=en_US
Im gonna quote your original post to which I replied:
To myself, Moria is the only expansion up there worth money at all (I know EVE is free). WotLK introduced one new class (which you had to 55 to play anyways) and one small (compared to others) landmass (that you also had to be a high level to play). I never really heard anything big about the two EQ expansions. And I'm sure the EVE one didn't double the playable space and add a bunch of items and what not.
Mines of Moria doubled LOTROs playspace with Eregion, Lorethias and Moria, introduced two completely new classes from the start. Both classes with very unique playstyles. New items for all levels of the classes. And the legendary item system. Not only is the quantity huge, but the quality of the expansion in bar none.
Wraith of the Lich King compares to LOTRO's free updates, even with the addition of Northrend (which is really just an arctic wasteland, I wouldn't think it that interesting).
Game companies need to learn what an expansion really is. WotLK is NOT an expansion, it's a scam. MoM IS an expansion. An expansion pack should significantly add more to the game. One small landmass and a class that only high level players can use if not significant. Three areas, which combined double the playable area of LOTRO, and two new classes (with all items) and a new item system, legendary weapons, makes for something you could put money out for.
Comparable also is Star Wars: Galaxies. Trials of Obi-Wan was NOT a decent expansion. It added one planet, that was nearly all just dungeons. Not something I'd pay for. Jump to Lightspeed, on the other hand, was a great expansion. It added an entirely new dimension to gameplay.
MoM got my vote.
@ Frostbite55
You are very wrong. I don't like WoW, I have my reasons. Obviously WoW fanboys will vote for WotLK. Anyone who has experienced MoM knows it's better. Can you really justify yourself spending 40 bucks for a small island to play on and one class? I can surely justify my 85 bucks for what I got with MoM. It's higher quality, higher quantity. And all around better. I think you're just the 'hater' here, not I.
Thank You,
- Eric
So, you admited that you dont like WoW and you basically called everybody who voted for WoW a fanboi (highlighted in green). So no, not liking WoW does not make you a WoW hater. Calling people who like WoW "fanbois" without any reason while trashing WoW just for the heck of it is being a "WoW hater". If you voted for MoM, thats great. But there was absolutely no reason to call fanbois all those that voted for WoW, nor was there a point to trash WoW.
EQ2 is dead. Servers are bare. It's impossible to find groups. The game is on easy mode and 10 year old retards are leveling up to 80 in weeks. So, even if you do find a group, you've got multiple retards who have no idea how to play their class.
Just let EQ2 die. It shouldn't be releasing anything until they fix the existing problems in the game. Allowing people to /feedback or /survey is pointless. They only make the game easier without fixing problems. They don't even test the game. Anyone can see that with the release of the expansion, I mean the vendor bug. How hard is it to do a heuristic analysis on the game? Does anyone at sony even understand that word? Nope.
Save yourself the frustration and buy anything else. Hell, Hello Kitty Online is better.
Every MMO has their bugs/problems when releasing a new expansion.
And the game was tested on the test server before release, but there will always be bugs/problems that are not caught before release.
Moria without doubt the best expansion ever by a mile and an incredible gaming experience in Moria, add to that the new Legendary weapons and Items and its just Awesome. Anyone that has'nt played Lotro now is the time to get in there !
I think this is clearly a battle between MoM and Wotlk.. both seems to be impresive expansions with lots of content (only played MoM thou)... Both expansions are getting very good reviews from the big ones like IGN.com and gamespy.com
The reason I think MoM deserves to win is that is that Turbine is a small indy company who managed to make an expansion that is on par (or better) than what the huge Activision-Blizzard (backed by Vivendi) did!
Also... while it seems WoW have been made easier with their expansion, LotrO have been made alot more complex and difficlut with Mines of Moria!
It really lacks a None of the Above option.
Oh yes, blame marketing for everything. You haven't even given any thought that the reason why WOTKL is doing so great is because its ... *gasp* good? No, that would be impossible! Its Blizzard and their brainwashing marketing schemes and hypno-advertising that made all those people go out and pay for WOTKL.
Seriously though, I pity anyone who tries to blame marketing, media bias, government conspiracy, weather, alien mind control or whatever on someone else success. If LOTRO isn't doing better then WoW in sales (WoW lore isn't as good as LOTRO, btw) then perhaps its not WoWs fault, but LOTROs? People go out of their way to pour dirt on anything just to make them feel a bit better because their personal favorite game isn't doing as good as some other game.
I have to apologize for this partial hijack, but I can't let this go unanswered...
Ummm, who said anything about brainwashing, 'hypno-advertising', government conspiracy, weather, alien mind control... Geesh. You need to lay off the sugar and caffeine. The last I checked, advertising is used to promote and sell an idea or a product. The more advertising, the more media saturation, the greater the chance that people will buy the product. The younger the audience or target group, the more susceptable they are to mass media and promotional hype. These aren't 'conspiracy theories', they are common knowledge and the reason companies spend millions of dollars to advertise their products.
Blizzard is one of the biggest with plenty of funds to saturate every media outlet to sell their games and their target is of course the younger crowd. Add it up. But all of that hype does not make a product great. My son played WoW and has as much experience in MMOs and gaming in general as I do, and was quickly disappointed in the game, as are many others who have posted here and on numerous other gaming forums across the internet.
As for your last comment - "If LOTRO isn't doing better then WoW in sales (WoW lore isn't as good as LOTRO, btw) then perhaps its not WoWs fault, but LOTROs?" - did you bother reading my entire post? The edit at the bottom which was added before you posted clearly states - "(EDIT - Turbine's biggest flaw is their lack of marketing strategy and miniscule advertising. I truly believe that with advertising of only half of what WoW spends, LOTRO would clobber it's competitor in sales and popularity.)"
I wasn't pouring dirt on WoW. I was stating an observation as to the main reason WoW had such huge sales. LOTRO is doing just fine as it is, with a huge boost in new subscribers with the expansion. But as I stated, with the quality of the game in general, and the expansion to be specific, if Turbine had a more aggressive marketing strategy and spent a bit more on promotion and advertising, WoW's numbers wouldn't look nearly as impressive.
A lot of first time posters for Mines of Moria .. .. People love to overhype this game for some reason lately.
A lot of first time posters for Mines of Moria .. .. People love to overhype this game for some reason lately.
It's funny that the amount of posts under the avatar does have such a huge meaning for some users over here. Especially as the amount of posts does say nothing about the time, since the account-user was reading this page nor does it tell anything about the reason for such low post-numbers, that may go from your conspiracy theory inspired hype-account or flame-account over "wow, although i like the news those forums often seem worde than the official wow forum, so why bother with posting?" up to "urghs, lost my account data I last used about 1-2 years ago". (-8
Number fourhundretandalittle would mean I shouldn't take your post as serious as those of other people with higher post numbers I guess? *g*)
Anyway, I do play both games mentioned in my post, I do pay for both, and still, Moria tops WotLK big times (some of the reasons described in horrible english in my first post). I wouldn't play for WoW if the game would be horrible. :-)
You dont really need to advertise LOTRO, the name speaks on its own. LOTRO got enough marketing and advertising from the start. If they were to dump 10x more advertising right now, it would just be waste of money. If you think that more advertising=more sales, then you are wrong. If you work for a medium-large company that releases a new product you would know that you need lots of coverage at the begining only.
After some time you tone down your ads and keep just a minimum coverage - just to remind people that your product is still there and that it is still great. I think LOTRO is getting enough marketing, thats why it sounded outrageous when someone blames marketing for the failure of a product (hence the reference to "brainwashing", people would make up ridiculous claims just to avert attention from the real problem).
And again, why do you keep insisting that the humanity is stupid? Only stupid people buy products SOLELY on advertisement. WoW has huge sales NOT becuase it was hugely advertsed, but because it appeals to a huge number of people. Appeals as in they like it, not they liked their advertisment.
Look at AoC, HUGE hype, HUGE advertisment campaign, bigger then WoW IMO. Huge sales? No.
I just want to know why EQ Seeds of Destruction was in this poll? SoD is the worst expansion Everquest has every put out. I was in the beta program and there were still alot of major bugs still in there when it went live. You can tell by this expansion that SOE is trying to fade out EQ by continually putting out junk and half finished product. SOE is killing this game. This expansion has caused me for the first time in 8 years of playing EQ to delete it off my hard drive. I used to love this game, I even met my wife playing EQ. Now I cant even stand to see anything Everquest.
Mines of Moria - naturally.
Any other choice would be just wrong for me. I have tried the ones that actually count for me, that is WotLK wich I found 'more of the same old second job, only a little prettier and with more bling', EQ2 that unfortunately felt really dated already and still had alot of timesinks in place, and EVE, wich still being extremely Sci-Fi beautiful still felt like playing Excel with graphics.
Moria is just stunning, both in basic design and in the visual aspects. It truly expands on the Shadows of Angmar basic game in a whole bunch of ways. There are the obvious, ie. Legendary items wich are amongst, if not The, coolest thing I have ever encountered in an MMORPG, the intricate design of the mines themselves, the two new classes, with one of them a lore breaking mage and the other a tank meant for the thinking gamer. The true wonder of this expansion is twofold.
1. It is immense, and really captures the feel of the Largest Dungeon Crawl ever. If one has any feelings for Tolkiens work, the mere possibility to walk the narrow edges of khazad Dûm would probably be enough, but here they have weaved so much great prose and so many new quests that it will take quite some time to actually play through it all.
2. They did it despite a relatively low subscription rate, compared to the Big Monsters of MMORPG's. And they did it after a fantastic series of free expansion patches.
I also have to weigh in the Community - wich for LOTRO is lightyears ahead of the others. Since I know the same community feeling will follow over to Moria - it is a sure winner.
And for you who thinks that this game is flawed and has problems that we who like it 'ignores' - to you I will say - They are not flaws, they are there by design. You are most likely a WoW player and such persons are often blind to other possibilities than their own game. This is generalising, I know, but nevertheless close to the truth. WoW is also a good game, especially for younger people wich shorter attention spans and a constant need of gratification. Such a person would not be content wich stolling the countryside in Forochel just taking in the icy beauty of the landscape. I am not saying that LOTRO is a perfect game, like WoW it has shortcomings. For me, the worst thing about WoW would be the person who contantly jumps in my face and screams 'OMGROTFLURPWNDI ROXORZ!!!11!!'. I much rather have someone bow before me while saying "Mae govannen' or 'Elen sila lumenn omentilmo' - and in Mines of Moria I can have that.
Sorry for this long and not to the point text - that is WAY out of topic.... mostly.
thought you were talking about EQ2 not Wow?
I voted Seeds of Destruction.
The mercenary system is very well done and they have made some real QoL improvements to the game with this expansion.
Does the fact that Turbine allowed you to purchase the digital copy well before the actual release date effect the numbers in any way for them?
Does the fact that Turbine allowed you to purchase the digital copy well before the actual release date effect the numbers in any way for them?
umm why would it? oh edit:P i forget all the losers who dont have a cc
umm why would it? oh edit:P i forget all the losers who dont have a cc
sorry i wasn't clear on that. didn't mean sales in general. just meant the number of sales in that initial 24 hour period. On another note. Sorry I'm not an elite master forum poster and gameing guru like yourself.....oh wait sorry. Just realized your only an apprentice. Must be the noob coming out of me again. :D
I know WoW itself has many different areas of land (kudos to Blizzard for that by the way) types. But Northrend tends to be an arctic wasteland. Some areas of it are lush, although it doesn't seem much is.
I see the Death Knight is a fine class, being it's pretty much a jack or all trades, but I think it was a bad decision to make it so you had to be 55 to use it. And so that the landmass is only accessible to high levels.
I also simply HATE the fact you MUST have TBC to play WOTLK, it makes my gut churn that Blizzard would stoop to such a level to sell more product. This would be one of the reasons I didn't vote for it.
As for the numbers game, I don't care. Frankly, the majority of the United State's population (I know the 11million players aren't just from the US) is overweight and have below average IQs. Does this mean that being overweight and slightly stupid is better than not? Do you see where I'm getting? I'm also pretty sure a higher percentage of high school teens drink before 21 than those who don't. Does this mean it's better? Number mean squat. WoW has higher numbers because it is more accessible to those with sub-par rigs or those who aren't the smartest people ever (it's a rather simple game is it not?).
I have not personally dove into WOTLK but I have played WoW for two months (total play time of just over 100 hours) and have seen friends play a good bit of WOTLK. The Death Knights look pretty awesome, and Nothrend is a good looking place, at least I like the art style there better than the rest of the game. Although I quit because I got bored. It was the same thing forever. Quests at an early level (up to around 30-40) are mostly "Kill this", "Get this", or "Find this/him/her/it" and it's just not fun. They need more low level content.
For example, last night I just played through LOTROs intro/tutorial again. I found with the new expansion they actually introduced a new dungeon with it's own quest into the intro (a short 6 level semi-instanced area of the game). And made some changes to the map for the first fully instanced area you go for about one level, a total of 5 minutes. Although it's not much, I really enjoyed the new content they added for players coming right out of the gate, even before they can see a character level 10 or higher.
WoW might also want to look at adding a better tutorial, to reduce idiotic questions like "how do i attk?" which in my play time I heard more times than I should have. Something semi instanced (where you see only others doing the same tutorial) would work well. The quests could teach you how to do stuff and ease you into the game.
Bliz's next expansion should add low level content, so people don't get bored and quite before they reach the high level stuff.
In the end, MoM added so much to the game, it was and is quite amazing.
I wasn't that impressed by WOTLK apart from the fact there was a shoddy story with cinematics and Northrend looks pretty good considering the style.
Thank You,
- Eric
PS, May I add I don't want LOTRO as popular as WoW. I never will have a little idiot 10 year old start dancing as a naked Elf in the middle of Bree saying "53x me!" over and over while someone else spams "ur mom" over and over in OOC chat. If that day comes, I will leave. Immediately. And we all know, more players, more idiots. I have ran into one so far who PMed me "Shut the f**k up" because I correctly answered his question. It seems he didn't know how to read, although after I showed him what I typed he did find out what "Exit Game" meant.
Exactly. Its just another popularity contest between followers of games, who could be bothered or just happen to be visiting the site during the time of the poll.
"Alright children, take out a pencil and a piece of paper.........."
agreed.
That's a joke, right? Alright, here's what you get in WotLK...
10 more levels (woot...)
1 new continent (woot...)
1 new class (woot...)
100 or so new items (... lame)
Siege-like combat...
So basically you're paying your $50 (or whatever) for an "expansion" the size of 1/10th of the initial game. Really, this isn't an expansion. Blizzard is making you pay for a update patch...
Expansions should be nearly the size of the initial game, *period*. There's absolutely no reason for them not to be because you already have the framework to work with. Blizzard really put 0 effort into WotLK and I won't be going back to a game that wants me to pay for such minor updates.
I bet Blizzard could sell you people sh*t on a stick if they labelled it WoW.
Sorry for the long long post.
Or maybe twice as big PERIOD? Or maybe 10 times bigger PERIOD? Cmon mr. troll, you know you can do better.
Seriously, there is no expansion in MMORPG history as big and as polished as WoTLK. And noone gives a shit about will you return to WoW or die next week.
I always appreciate the effort put into the site but I don't really understand this poll. In order to have a valid opinion and cast a vote I would have to play and own the expansion to every one of these games, which I don't so I can't.
Basically it's just asking for people to vote for the expansion to whatever game they happen to play if on that list.
Guess I'll just help out the lunatic eve swarm that always shows up during these times and vote that.
Does the fact that Turbine allowed you to purchase the digital copy well before the actual release date effect the numbers in any way for them?
This is true. I'd paid for, downloaded, and installed Mines of Moria a full week before it was even released. Released day just unlocked what I already had installed. Lots of members did the digital download option.
This is true. I'd paid for, downloaded, and installed Mines of Moria a full week before it was even released. Released day just unlocked what I already had installed. Lots of members did the digital download option.
Another +1 to MOM I was able to play on release day without leaving my house since Blizzard wants to be able to brag about Box sales since they make their customers go out to the store at midnight if ya wanna play at release.
It was very nice having the game ready to go a week prior as I was one of the dumb asses that stood outside waiting for BC to release at midnight last year in the frezzing cold.
More proof that Blizzard does less for their subscribers since they wanted to be able to set a 24 hour sales record. Thanks Turbine for allowing me to stay warm and play on release day with no hassle.
While I disagree with the poster you replied to, I also disagree with you. WOTKL cannot be garbage if millions of people buy it.
PS: I hope you aren't gonna throw in stuff like "they bought the hype/advertising" or "its because they are stupid" reasoning. Im sick and tired of that logic.
<modedit>
Technically you are right. But since most people do not play ALL games from the list, its the best way to identify which game is best. Results arent 100% accurate, for the reasons you stated, but this watered down statistic is the most accurate that we can get.
New system ??? Everquest has been using Evolving items for a long time now... Nothing 'new' about it.
In the deep bottom of the Moria Water Works, I forgot I was staring at a 20 inch monitor in a 12x12 room and was awestruck by the terrible vastness of it all. Which Is what I'm hoping to experience in an mmo.
The legendary system coupled with the class trait revision adds an entirely new dimension to develop your character. A rarity, my expectations were exceeded. I haven't played WotLK, but for me Moria spins The Burning Crusade's ass into a cub scout knot.
edit: staring not starring. I've been in Texas too long.
New system ??? Everquest has been using Evolving items for a long time now... Nothing 'new' about it.
If you seriously think that the EQ version bears any similarity to what Turbine has done, then you haven't played Moria yet, it's that simple. Not even close.
That's a completely rediculous statement jimmyman - millions of people buy cigarrettes and McDonalds food every day even though it's junk, it's actually physically killing them in some cases. Just because millions of people play WoW does NOT mean it's a good game. Just because millions upgraded to WOTLK doesn't mean it's a superior product, it just means that millions of people just don't know there are better choices out there.
That's a completely rediculous statement jimmyman - millions of people buy cigarrettes and McDonalds food every day even though it's junk, it's actually physically killing them in some cases. Just because millions of people play WoW does NOT mean it's a good game. Just because millions upgraded to WOTLK doesn't mean it's a superior product, it just means that millions of people just don't know there are better choices out there.
A tiny flaw in your logic, people eat in McDonalds or smoke cigars NOT to get healthy. People eat to kill their hunger, or smoke to.. well i dont know why people smoke, I hate it. So, is Mcdonalds a healthiest restaurant? Hell no. Is it one of the best hunger quelching restaurant? Sure. Its affordable, its quick, is accessible, its tasty.
A tiny flaw in your logic, people eat in McDonalds or smoke cigars NOT to get healthy. People eat to kill their hunger, or smoke to.. well i dont know why people smoke, I hate it. So, is Mcdonalds a healthiest restaurant? Hell no. Is it one of the best hunger quelching restaurant? Sure. Its affordable, its quick, is accessible, its tasty.
Who has the flaw in logic? You say you hate smoking yet you have a picture of a cat smoking, or are you just a fan of animal cruelty? Yeah I know its a little off topic, but I was getting around to the point that I don't understand why there's such a mystery around the fact that WOW has such high sells, but yet so many people say they hate the game. Have you ever been logged into the game. It doesn't take much to entertain a 12 yr old and that's what half the players of wow consist of. Little kids go for the shiniest toy basically and with all the commercials and everything else that wow does for advertising that's basically all they see. I mean when's the last time you saw a commercial on T.V. for Moria. Personally I never have. Maybe I've just over looked them. Lets just keep in mind that they ask for the best in quality. Not quantity in one night.
Speaking as someone who has played both WOW and LOTR my personal pick between these two is LOTR hand down for many reasons. Yes I have played both plenty with several different classes in both games with their levels maxed out.
Regarding advertisement: the fact that devs neglected to run a proper advertising campaign is the fault of the company itself, and not WoW or Blizzard. I dont understand how this is of any relevance here.
I wasn't saying that the fact that blizzard advertised so much was a bad thing either. It was just another explanation of why there sales were higher than Moria. Personally I'm glad that they don't advertise as much on T. V. It would probably attract more of the crowd to LOTRO that I left WOW to get away from. Gold spammers, little kids that spam profanity over general channels because they think its cool, and just the higher server populations that blizzard's customer service can't seem to handle. Is it better for you when I throw twenty different reasons out so I don't concentrate on one that seem to be discrimnating towads people of a certain age? Again that's not a exact number. Just saying that I put more than one reason out there. Its a figure of speech. Just trying to be clear on that. I know its actualy only three in that sentence but again just trying to get a point across.
Speaking as someone who has played both WOW and LOTR my personal pick between these two is LOTR hand down for many reasons. Yes I have played both plenty with several different classes in both games with their levels maxed out.
This argument is the only valid argument in your entire porst.
Actually if you had looked at other posts you would have seen that peole were arguing the point that because blizzard had sold so many copies in one night that it must be a good game because of this fact. I believe that the whole post has relevance to the topic because of that. Look back at the other posts if you don't believe me.
OK let me spell out exactly what I was saying since it seemed to be over your head the first time around.
One I wasn't the one who started talking about Mcdonald's and smoking so wasn't really the one who shifted the conversation that way. Was just pointing it out as I saw it with your picture.
Have you ever been logged into the game. It doesn't take much to entertain a 12 yr old and that's what half the players of wow consist of.
Yes i've logged lately, and your statement is a gross over-exaggeration. My personal estimate: there are about 30% of kids out of the total WoW playerbase. Its really hard to get even an approximate number since most of the time I do not ask any1 age and people behave appropriately. Very rarely do I get a "kid" acting out, even more rare so in a group.
OK. It wasn't meant to be an exact percentage. Was just trying to get the point across that a lot of kids play WOW which by the way you reacted to it I would say that I did get that point across even though you still didn't quite catch that. I have no way of getting an exact percentage and neither do you unless you've played on every server that WOW has and talked to every player on each of them. On the three different servers I've played on WOW there were definatly more than 30% that were 17 or under. That's legal adult age here in the U. S. We'll just use that so you can't say I'm the one who is discriminating.
Little kids go for the shiniest toy basically and with all the commercials and everything else that wow does for advertising that's basically all they see. I mean when's the last time you saw a commercial on T.V. for Moria. Personally I never have. Maybe I've just over looked them. Lets just keep in mind that they ask for the best in quality. Not quantity in one night.
lets assume for the moment that you are right and half or even 90% of WoW's population consist of kids. Does that really justify your denial of the game's quality? What is the average age, according to you, of a game that has to qualify to be in your book of being a "quality" game? is it 15? is it 30? Be fair here, you cannot rule out quality of WoW on a simple argument "most WoW players are kids". In fact, kids are the biggest critics of any game or toy, if the game/toy sucks, they will not play with it long, they will move on. If its a quality game/toy, they will keep playing with it for years. Your statements could be considered discriminatory towards certain age group.
Ok here goes. Since you obviously didn't really read what I wrote the first time around very well, that's what's up there in white just so you know, Here's my second go at trying to explain this to you. I never said that the quality of the game was bad because kids played it. I was trying to explain how sales could be so high on an item that is not that great. Wasn't saying it was the sole reason. Was just throwing one contributing factor out there. Also, if kids are such good judges then how did things like sponge bob square pants, power rangers, and pickachu stay on t.v. for so long. Little off topic but hey you asked the question.
Im sorry but the argument "little kids" is being thrown around so often that it stops making any sense. I do not have any problems with profanities nor "acting up" because i:
a) do not spend hours in a major city monitoring the chat
b) if someone does manage to bring their spam/profanities to my attention, i just put them on ignore list
You seem to be a bit sensitive to this, but this is how every annoying person acts within any game. WoW is no better or worse. Millions play WoW, but NOT on the same sertver. So it does not matter if there are 100 servers or just 1. You have proper tools to shield yourself from things you mentioned, if you cannot handle this then you shouldnt play any MMO at all. Ive played many MMOs, and only those MMOs that do not restrict unwanted physical interaction (kill stealing, camp stealing, body camping, etc), only those would fit your profile. Only wehn you CANT stop abuse, whether physical or verbal, only then I would agree with you that that game was not designed properly and it is prone to abuse by punks, whatever their age.
When i said that only your last argument was valid, i was referring to your post. The "little kids" argument is wrong IMO because of what i wrote above, you can shield yourself from 95% of abuse without much effort. So thats not a problem, more like a 2 second inconvenience.
Regarding your last paragraph "I never said that the quality of the game was bad because kids played it. I was trying to explain how sales could be so high on an item that is not that great." This is recursive logic, "why is he poor? because he is stupid. Why is he stupid? because he is poor". Lets try to break it down into simpler logic:
- the fact that so many people play it, does not mean that the product is good... In whose opinion? Yours? Ok, so whose opinion outweights whose? 10 people who like it or 1 person who doesnt? So many people buy the game becuase they LIKE it, because the quality of the game satisfies them. If you are not satisfied with the quality of the game, thats fine. But you are a minority, and you cannot force your opinion on theirs.
I personally do not usually follow mainstreem, I do not eat at McDonalds, I do not listen to Britney Spears, I do not watch spongebob. But do I have a right to contradict 10 other people? No, becuase if i did, id be calling them stupid, and thats just wrong.
You are entitled to your own opinion, everyone does, and you may say "I dont consider this game because this and this and that". But you can't say "This game is not a good game because I think so and I dont care that 10 other people think otherwise, what do they know".
Ok. Here we go again. Just going to throw some things out there for you.
1. I don't sit in major cities because there is way to much chat flying by that I can't even keep up with half of it. I was talking about in battle grounds, and questing areas. Have you ever steped into elwynn forest?
2. Gold spammers on that game normally create a level 1toon and go around spamming their advertisements whether is across general trade or in whispers. All they have to do is go and create another toon so ignore really doesn't work. The fact that blizzard is not able to keep them off their game after this long is proof of how bad they are. I can understand it occaisionally happening but it seems like everytime you turn around there's another gold selling spammer in WOW.
3. Half the posts I see in WOW are people that are annoying you and they throw profanities left and right when you can't help them. I've only had this happen in LOTRO once since I started playing the game, and never saw that toon again. I see the same toons running around doing the same things every day on WOW. That's because Blizzard is only worried about making money.
Now I will admit that I misspoke in that one sentence you quoted me in. I meant that only because sales are high doesn't mean its actually a good product. That doesn't mean its a bad product either. The reason I said that was because whenever anyone argues the point that WOW is a good game they say well top sales in a 24 hr period must mean something. I'M HERE TO SAY IT DOESN'T MEAN ITS A GOOD GAME. Doesn't mean its a bad one either.
Now. In my opinion WOW is definatly by no means a good game. Yes I'm saying its a bad game when compared to other games out there. That is my opinion and it is not a bad thing to express it. Yes I can say that my opinion is that its a bad game and i don't care what 10 other people think. Does that make them stupid though? Not by any means. Its just that we agree to disagree on that certain subject, but I have every right to express my opnion. That's exactly what this forum is here for. Do i think that 12 yr olds can make as educated a decision as I can? Nope. Sure don't. Otherwise lets let them run for president. Or let them drink alcohol. There's a reason we don't do that and that's for the very reason I've stated time and again. That can't make an educated decision like an adult can. Its called immaturity.
This will definatly be my last post in regards to anything you say about any of my other posts because if you don't get the point that I'm trying to get across by now then you never will. Quantity does not mean quality. Thank you and good night.
World of Warcraft~~~my favoriate!~
The point you try to "get through" is that you do not like the game. I get that. You have your opinion, everybody does. But when you blame practically non-existant things like you just wrote in 1, its ridiculous. Do you realise that each zone has its own channel? Do you realise that 95% of annoyance is in the major city channel? There is rarely ever any annoyance outside the major city. And even if somebody did say something you do not like, how hard is it to ignore it? I dont have a problem with your opinion, its the reasoning behind it. You know who you remind me? A little child that gets pushed and then it gets mad and pushes back and then it goes "He pushed me", "no he pushed me first".
2) Gold spammers... present, but not as much as it used to be. Still a problem in major cities, almost never in whispers. In the last 3 months, i only got 1 or 2 whispers.
3) what posts? You mean the website? I dont know, I never go to their website. WoW is not a browser game.
The only fair reasoning on your part is the goldsellers, some people are sensitive to them then the others. So someone may be pissed seeing 2 in a day, some wouldnt be pissed if they saw 100. Since I tend to be pissed when i see 2-3 in a day, I spend as little time in the major city as possible. That doesnt really affect me since theres nothing to do there anyway.
And regarding sales issue. Again. When 10 people buy the game it means 10 people LIKE the game. It means 10 people think its a GOOD game. Which means it IS a good game. You may not like the game, but it is a good game if 10 times more people say it is. Thats how statistics work.
When you say "WoW is not a good game" then I disagree. When you say "WoW is not a good game in my opinion" - then I do not disagree. Try to be less sensitive to what people on the internet say, you will find enjoyment where you havent found any before.
After 4 full years of loyalty to SoE, my Hubby & Son have closed 4 accounts between us.
EQ2 has become group-centric & raid focussed in ALL group encounters.
If you want to raid & move forward as a progression, then EQ2 is for you.
If you are a Casual player...i.e. you don't raid, you don't have time to "LFG" whenever you log in, don't bother with EQ2.
Now with the RMT on all servers EQ2 is DEAD in our eyes.
If you don't want to log into a game & look for the 'perfect group make-up of 6 classes to enjoy the content' then EQ2 is not for you.
& before any EQ2 Fanbois respond, I am on my way to the I hate SoE thread.
After 4 years of subscribing to EQ2 I am officially over them.
I/WE will never go back!
Thats a Lie. You can never have to mutch TEXAS :P
So someone couldn't buy this game just to be trying it out to see what all the hype is about? I know that's the reason I first bought WOW. How could I possibly know it was a good game before I actually played it, which you would have to buy a game before you actually played it in most cases so again just because ten people bought it doesn't mean that ten people liked it and kept playing it.
Quantity doesn't mean Quality. Enough Said.
Mines of Moria all the way.
Why was the result page yanked? The results were viewable for the last week and now it's disappeared.
Who did they say won? Just curious.