I may be mistaken, but if i understand the author correcly he has the same issue as me: Looking for a game that has some of the qualities that Wow Vanilla (BC) had - And finding such a game is difficult nowadays. Wow anno 2012 is not the same game as it was when it was released. So basically it would be interesting to find a game that had the same focus on difficulty and group play (10+ people) as the original Wow had. It doesn't really matter if the game is sililar to WoW. As long as it's similar to WOW anno 2005. 

Any thoughts on the PVE aspect of The Rift expansion and GW2? As i've read - it might actually be of some interest.

@OP

There is no game you looking atm imho. 

Check back in 2-3 years. 

I am just veru curious what people attacvh to the word RPG these days... .. . People say this or that is not a RPG.. But they rarley explain what they are looking for. And the biggest problem is that even when they do it is always different things. And the fact is ofc that pretty much every game is in essence a RPG... But even using the accepted norm i find it hard to figure out why some games are deemd "non-RPG"

The OP's problem is not the so called death of RPG's but a severe case of nostalgia, and against that there is no design that can measure up.

I'll recomend the games that I play my self as I see you have not played any of them.

No Fantacy games here.

TSW - Best pve ever, free trial

EVE - Sandbox, do whatever you want.

AO - A bit old but very deep and very much team oriented. Free up to level 200 without expansions.

Originally posted by tawess

I am just veru curious what people attacvh to the word RPG these days... .. . People say this or that is not a RPG.. But they rarley explain what they are looking for. And the biggest problem is that even when they do it is always different things. And the fact is ofc that pretty much every game is in essence a RPG... But even using the accepted norm i find it hard to figure out why some games are deemd "non-RPG"

 

The OP's problem is not the so called death of RPG's but a severe case of nostalgia, and against that there is no design that can measure up.

In most cases what people are bemoaning is the lack of more realistic, virtual worlds that the early MMO's tried to emulate, regardless whether they leaned towards being sandboxes or theme parks. (terms didn't even exist back then)

The term MMORPG has become useless, because there are so many variants people have suggested subdividing the genre into MMOVRPG (virtual world) MMOARPG (action, like GW) and a couple of others that escape me now.

Most modern MMORPG's are more "game" like, designed for the more casual player with a quick "in and out" mentality, sort of like, you know a single player game might be.

Forget the nostalgia defense, the fact is modern MMO's are drastically different than their early forebears and for many of us, the changes were neither welcome nor are considered improvements.

Realistic Virtual World...

Shores of Hazeron

Originally posted by Nicobisgaard

 Wow Vanilla (BC) had - And finding such a game is difficult nowadays. Wow anno 2012 is not the same game as it was when it was released. So basically it would be interesting to find a game that had the same focus on difficulty and group play (10+ people) as the original Wow had.

.......Difficulty?

WoW was the most casual MMO on the market when it launched. And that hasn't changed. WoW was never focused on difficulty. People who wanted difficulty played other MMOs.

I guess the closest you'll find to a difficult group based MMO is EverQuest or Vanguard.

Even if Vanilla relaunched I wouldn't play it. I compare all these games to WoW because I don't want WoW let alone a bad clone of it.

VG would have been perfect if devs gave a crap about anything but the cash shop. Look at the poor excuses for patches, they almost contain nothing important other then tweaking the cash shop. The game is dead even with the influx it's not enough for passable grouping. I've never encountered lazier devs in any game then VG. They need to either fire them all or let the game die, must choose 1.

Originally posted by JimmyYO

Originally posted by Jemcrystal

You are in the same boat as the rest of us.

 

I'm waiting for ArcheAge, Elderscrolls Online, and Otherland to come out.

Yeah I figured as much, was just hoping there was some gem I missed. Oh yeah I played FFXI but found the game to be extremely boring for some reason. Just me though.

FFXI fits your only requisite to a tee, and using the excuse "boring for some reason" doesn't give those willing to help much to go on. Maybe flesh out what your looking for more?

I can't believe you did very much in EQ2 with what you said there. How far did you get in EQ2? Personally I think it's a very group friendly game but only if you want to group.

'too spammy' - please elaborate. Most games these days are a lot worse.

'mostly a bad wow clone' - both games were developed and  released at the same time. How can it be a wow clone?

If someone were to say to me you can pick one mmorpg and only one, I would pick EQ2.

Originally posted by Deolus

I can't believe you did very much in EQ2 with what you said there. How far did you get in EQ2? Personally I think it's a very group friendly game but only if you want to group.

'too spammy' - please elaborate. Most games these days are a lot worse.

'mostly a bad wow clone' - both games were developed and  released at the same time. How can it be a wow clone?

If someone were to say to me you can pick one mmorpg and only one, I would pick EQ2.

 

Because they have since designed EQ2 to be more like WoW. Same way DAoC became a WoW clone.

Originally posted by JimmyYO

 

VG would have been perfect if devs gave a crap about anything but the cash shop. Look at the poor excuses for patches, they almost contain nothing important other then tweaking the cash shop. The game is dead even with the influx it's not enough for passable grouping. I've never encountered lazier devs in any game then VG. They need to either fire them all or let the game die, must choose 1.

I've been forming pugs every day since the FTP launch, without even hunting for players.

Look at the pages upon pages of patch notes detailing bug fixes and new content.

You trolls are getting lazy...

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Try the TSW free trial

Best pve going imo, although I am mainly a pvper.

Give it time, seems solo friendly at first, but you need to group for outdoor pve later

It doesn't have raids, but.. the dungeons ate Rock hard compared to say wow and gw2

really? wow i could swear GW2 Dungeons are the hardest since EQ in my opinion

especially the Explorable mode, it's unforgiving up to a point that it's not only hard, but annoying

I'm sorry but I just can't relate.

You can still play the older games that give you great nostalgia.

You can still play Classic Everquest.

You can still play Classic Dark Age of Camelot.

You can still play Vanilla World of Warcraft.

You can still play Classic Ultima Online.

You can still play Classic Lineage 2.

And you can still play pre-NGE Star Wars Galaxies.

Hell, Ragnarok Online even released an official classic server.

I'm sure there are others that I haven't even mentioned but as I implied earlier these gems have not been lost to time.

If this is the experience you want, you can find it.

You just have to look for it.

Edit: If I were going to pay a subscription fee to play a game I would be playing Final Fantasy XI and/or Final Fantasy XIV.

Originally posted by Robokapp

Originally posted by VirusDancer

Part of the issue that you will run into with proclaiming games as WoW clones is that hardly anything was original in WoW.  So, you're going to be facing issues in regard to that being very vague.  What particular features of WoW do you not like - how do you feel that other games have utilized those same features, etc, etc, etc...

I feel OP's problem isn't that it's similar to WoW but that he has played it before...in WoW. If he passed on it in WoW, he'll pass on it elsewhere as well. Does it matter where it came from? he experienced it. Maybe not at the source but he experienced it somewhere.

 

I know every RTS is basically a Dune 2 clone. I did play Dune 2. But very briefly. so I'd relate a new RTS to a game like Red Alert which I played extensively. Simply because i experienced the core RTS features there more than at the original source.

Going back to Dune 2 and even Red Alert for RTS games is a far cry from going with WoW for MMORPGs though.

As for whether it was something the OP first experienced in WoW or not though, it still comes down to it being very vague.  What was experienced?  That's missing... it could be almost anything - it could be something that many consider to be core to MMORPGs since the late 90s through today.  Without knowing what the OP's talking about though, how can we talk about what the OP's talking about?

Well sorry op but you missed the best ,most complete mmo experience in FFXi.It is no longer the same game it has changed like flipping a light switch.

I believe MOST will find something in Archeage when it comes,however i already see many areas of concern.I do however think AA will offer more than the usual 1-2 month of content we see from games of late.Geesh some are not even offering a full month,2 weeks players are done 90% of the game.

I say wait and give Archeage a go but do NOT look for some magical best of all time PVP game or else you will ruin the gaming experience for yourself.IMO it will have a fun pvp side to it,but i do not like pvp so i am looking for some other enjoyment.I like to do stuff with other people to take on the content.

I will have my own house,my garden ,hopefully build my own boat and ships with a guild.Hang glide from mountain tops for fun lol.if i am bored in a couple months oh well maybe ffxi will be f2p by that time :).

Originally posted by Wizardry

If i am bored in a couple months oh well maybe ffxi will be f2p by that time :).

New expansion is coming, I doubt they would convert to Free to Play as it's sounding like they plan on selling boxes.

However, Free-to-Play FFXI is my dream. I would be playing it if I had the money.