So I heard about this game looking for things to play while waiting for another game to come out (bet you can guess which one). I was a real fan of VtM: Bloodlines for the PC, and have always wanted to play a game like TSW set out to be. A story-driven, dark experience. I'm in love with the setting! And the quest system sounded different enough. I went in ready for a real inspired experience, not a typical MMO experience. 

And honestly what I got didn't feel that different from typical MMO fare. The setting and the story didn't disappoint one bit. TSW seriously excells in this regard. A+++

But there was a real disconnect between the setting itself and how I interacted with it. Between the shoddy, immersion-breaking animation un-quality, extremely boring combat, constant cheesy references, and the liberties the game takes with my character, I largely felt myself unable to connect with a setting and story that I would otherwise be a huge fan of. 

Details:

• The game takes liberties with my character and me, the player. The Dragon starting story was pretty much the biggest example of this, and anyone who's played through it (though possibly not males) knows what I'm talking about. Maybe the guys reading this didn't feel the same, but I felt both insulted and uncomfortable watching my character be practically intimate with a stranger and then apparently be actually intimate. There was a lot left just implied, and I doubt that the implications are what really happened, but the game started my second beta weekend off with something I wanted to just pretend hadn't happened. I recall there being a few other awkward moments where it felt like I was obligated to buy the developers dinner or something. :P
• Cheesy references, cheesy references everywhere. References are awesome but I'm surprised that the team behind such a well designed world and story would scatter them so obviously and carelessly. It really ruined both the potential magic of the references and contributed to my loss of immersion. 
• The animations are still not very good. I can't really tell if they improved between this beta and the last, but nevertheless I still felt as if movement, combat, and story animations were lacking enough to make me feel disconnected from the setting that was begging me to become immersed. Animation really seems like a little thing, but it's those little details that really make or break an immersive experience--and an immersive experience is the only thing TSW could really have going for it.
• The combat is worse than industry standard. It seems that the MMO community is generally willing to accept boring combat up until around level 20. Unfortunately, it's hard to judge progression in TSW, so it's entirely probable that I'm being unfair. Regardless, the combat felt worse than most low-end combat I've experienced in MMOs, it being a poorly implemented combination of more active combat styles like GW2, TERA, DDO, and WoW-clone style tab targeting (I cannot tell you how annoying it was to be unable to attack things right in front of me because my target had long since ran off)/hotkeying. This forced me to pay attention to the combat without actually being rewarded with any fun for doing so. Not cool. 

Sums up how I felt about the game as well, if it was buy the box and play for free with a shop I would probably pick it up but I don't think this game comes anywhere close to justifying a sub fee in the current market.

As a guy, I played male Dragon and I agree with the starting bit, it was awkward and weird I didn't like it one bit, maybe if I was 16 I would have thought it was cool and edgy.

This is where I am with TSW, too.  I want to like it.. but today, I couldn't even bring myself to put in a few hours giving it another chance.  Maybe tomorrow...

Oh and yeah, agree 100% with both of the above comments on the Dragon starting cinematic.  Really makes for a terrible opening impression.

Only pointing out one thing about this thread:

The Dragon intro and what some people are saying about it seems to me to be a measure of the immaturity of todays gamers. How does one feel embarassed about a story in a game? The game is a mature setting and deal with lore from a variety of cultures on our planet. When you are part of a story intro that is setting a scene it is very common in rpg games (pnp and computer) to have characters go through situations outside the player's control and comfort zone. Story is what counts. Who gives a rat's ass about the players? Sure as shit not the story teller otherwise the story is compromised.

Now if anyone bothered to read the lore on those two characters in the room they would have found out the guy is actually a half-demon and the woman isn't even human at all. She is a 1000+ year old kumiho. It can be discribed as an eastern fey creature typically in the form of a fox or woman. They are known for two things: 1. seducing humans and corrupting morals and 2. eating human flesh.

Now seeing that some posting here seem rather clueless about role playing games let me point out that fey aren't typically your happy go lucky cute little fairy folk. Any real rpg games in a mature setting use real lore and not Disney remakes of the stories. Fey folk are nasty little fuckers. They use magic, psionics or just plain trickery to typically lead humans to their doom. Kumiho in this case can seduce mortal humans easily whether it be male or female. They use powers ouside of normal human understanding. It does not matter as they are not human at all. As a tool of the Dragon our characters are lucky enough to simply be seduced to begin the out of body experience. It is a scene of magic and of ancient lore ... the exact things players are supposed to bloody look up in the game. The developers have pointed this out many, many times.

Now I truly hope there are more events like this in the game. I look forward to hearing all the calls for hand holding when painfully politically correct players miss the point entirely. Perhaps we will see more examples like this thread of blatantly open homophobia.

As for combat ... I agree for the most part. I sure hope some tweaking is yet to be done pre or even post release. Aside of bugs the story aspect of the game is quite good.

I was waiting this game to come out since 2007, it was 5 years ago, when there were only few people in the forum

I plan to move my guild to here since we love puzzle and brainstorming

years by years we waiting this MMO to be released

But what we got is a  massive dissapointment

*This is my opinion.

1. Account problem:  CS, GM & live chat is not helping at all when some of us got account problems. I myself have been waiting for 9 hours, downloading the beta, but when stuck in the account login. eventhough the first problem was okay. but then, i encounter the same problem again.

I did contact the GM, GM was unable to help and ask me to email tech which GM also dont know. how long tech will reply. and just want to leave the chat. I checked on the internet and quite a lot of people encounter almost the same problem. It means funcom dont solve problem.

I asked my guild members whether they have same issue or not, some of them also encounter the same issue.

So funcom have bad service, They dont care about our feeling which really want to play the game.

But now, i'm happy, at least because i know how bad this game is. how bad the service is.

I have beta software installed in here, and not yet login even just for 1 second but i'm not regret at all, because i'm not interested anymore to waste time & money  playing this.

2. Rating so low (Combat, Boring, Character Customization, etc).... no question asked.

Some of my guild members who was in the beta was shocked. and ask me.. "do we really need to move to this game" and after i ask what was the problem. They explain everything....  

and the worst part.....

3. P2P ? Subscription fees... means no future....

Less & less people will play -> means Less Fund & Budged -> no money for improvement -> Dead

And since it use Subcription fees, i dont have enough heart to force my guild member to pay monthly etc. I love my guild members. 

Okay so our guild plan is directly move to second plan, Guild Wars 2, Highest Rating of all MMO, only pay $60 and become F2P, High Graphic etc. because i think for investment (time & money) that GW2 will be a lot better and last longer than TSW.

Yeah conclutions: I really want to like this game, But I can't...

at least... not good investment... (in term of time & money)

What i need to say about this TSW:

Briliant idea & concept, but really lack of other things.

As I'm still on the fence here, all I'll say is this: That "intimate" Dragon cutscene occurs even if you're a female character. I don't mind being the silent protagonist type, but having come from TOR a couple of months ago, that scene in particular drove me nuts due to my inability to have a choice.

I think Funcom should've either used a voiced, pre-made character or given you some dialogue options. What TSW has now is a poor mix of a player-made and a premade character. In a way, she acts as you wish, but you can't control her during cutscenes. She also seems to have no will of her own and mostly just observes what NPCs do and obeys them. It's the worst of both worlds.

I was not impressed with the game. I went in with an open mind and came out with the attitude about how bad it is and uninstalled the beta. For a 32 GB game, it could have been so much better.

Originally posted by Tamanous

Only pointing out one thing about this thread:

 

The Dragon intro and what some people are saying about it seems to me to be a measure of the immaturity of todays gamers. How does one feel embarassed about a story in a game? The game is a mature setting and deal with lore from a variety of cultures on our planet. When you are part of a story intro that is setting a scene it is very common in rpg games (pnp and computer) to have characters go through situations outside the player's control and comfort zone. Story is what counts. Who gives a rat's ass about the players? Sure as shit not the story teller otherwise the story is compromised.

 

Now if anyone bothered to read the lore on those two characters in the room they would have found out the guy is actually a half-demon and the woman isn't even human at all. She is a 1000+ year old kumiho. It can be discribed as an eastern fey creature typically in the form of a fox or woman. They are known for two things: 1. seducing humans and corrupting morals and 2. eating human flesh.

 

Now seeing that some posting here seem rather clueless about role playing games let me point out that fey aren't typically your happy go lucky cute little fairy folk. Any real rpg games in a mature setting use real lore and not Disney remakes of the stories. Fey folk are nasty little fuckers. They use magic, psionics or just plain trickery to typically lead humans to their doom. Kumiho in this case can seduce mortal humans easily whether it be male or female. They use powers ouside of normal human understanding. It does not matter as they are not human at all. As a tool of the Dragon our characters are lucky enough to simply be seduced to begin the out of body experience. It is a scene of magic and of ancient lore ... the exact things players are supposed to bloody look up in the game. The developers have pointed this out many, many times.

 

Now I truly hope there are more events like this in the game. I look forward to hearing all the calls for hand holding when painfully politically correct players miss the point entirely. Perhaps we will see more examples like this thread of blatantly open homophobia.

 

As for combat ... I agree for the most part. I sure hope some tweaking is yet to be done pre or even post release. Aside of bugs the story aspect of the game is quite good.

Yep the fey are quite the suprise when you step outside Disney, pretty much why I love Lost Girl tv series. Anyhow, I kinda just don't like single player game intros for MMO games. It kinda just removes the RPG aspect if I know everyone I see in the begining hub.....had the same beginning as me. In an MMO it more often should always be more generalized, providing you with the ability to be creative with your own beginnings.

The Dragon intro didn't throw me off one bit, and I agree with the above wall of text that explained rpg's and such. It's setting the scene for you. If you don't want the scene set, then go read twilight or something, haha - just kidding...no one deserves that torture.

Though I dont know if you can necessarily blame it on the "immaturity of MMO gamers today" but more-so on the inability of some people to cope with sexual references. If someone randomly shouts "penis" 10 people will shout penis back and another 40 people will be oddly offended. When all penis is is a word that is used to describe a part of the male body. Simply put its a word...nothing more.

That intro, albeit a bit edgy, does its job very well and I can imagine in the future only a certain type of person(or gamer) will be playing the dragon. One that can get past the intro and say "hmmm....interesting ;)"...

...

...I also sense a great fapping in the force...

Fully agree with the OP, but the thing that really piss me off its the numer of quest you actualy can carry.

i cant like the game because i hate the combat system, is very boring IMO and dodge system dont improve anything. 

i like  graphics, worlds and lor but the combat is to bad to me enjoy the game. 

i see lot of people saying the combat was improve so much compared last BW so i try again the game, bahhh is almost exactly the same with a dodge system very badly implement.

Definitely agreed with your first bullet. And I think that ties back into the fact that my character doesn't talk. At. All. Basically my character feels like he doesn't really exist or matter in any way. I guess that kinda works for what Dragon are trying to accomplish, but not the other two.

Unfinished and really too full of both gameplay and graphical glitches for a P2P offering. I know this is beta (promotional beta more like it).

And in agreement, the combat is horrible, I can see that there is a lot of freedom in the skill wheel, but it dont really matter when its pulled off so poorly.

Your character feels slow in combat even though it is expected that you move and fight.

/slaps Funcom over the fingers and shakes head

I'm almost tempted to call it a SWTOR clone with even worse combat, but I'll keep that to myself.

Dissapointed :(

Originally posted by kulhat

Unfinished and really too full of both gameplay and graphical glitches for a P2P offering. I know this is beta (promotional beta more like it).

And in agreement, the combat is horrible, I can see that there is a lot of freedom in the skill wheel, but it dont really matter when its pulled off so poorly.

Your character feels slow in combat even though it is expected that you move and fight.

/slaps Funcom over the fingers and shakes head

 

 

I'm almost tempted to call it a SWTOR clone with even worse combat, but I'll keep that to myself.

Dissapointed :(

I find this games combat a ton more interesting that SWTOR.. SWTOR i litteraly was falling asleep while fighting. I found SWTOR to also be more clunky and didn't flow very well at all but maybe that's just me... this game could still use a lot of work with the flow and feeling of some animations especially the basic movement ones and I think that would help a lot in peoples initial reaction towards the combat... once you get a couple decks to play around with the system is a lot more fun and actually gets pretty interesting.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

I find this games combat a ton more interesting that SWTOR.. SWTOR i litteraly was falling asleep while fighting. I found SWTOR to also be more clunky and didn't flow very well at all but maybe that's just me... this game could still use a lot of work with the flow and feeling of some animations especially the basic movement ones and I think that would help a lot in peoples initial reaction towards the combat... once you get a couple decks to play around with the system is a lot more fun and actually gets pretty interesting.

It's hardly a consolation that TSW combat is better than SWTOR................

I have to say that TSW feels really shallow, it is as casual as it gets, borderline single player game.

That is not bad in itself, but the Combat doesn't help the cause.

Apart from the original settings, and the good quest system, TSW has very little to offer.

I feel same. After first beta I had mixed feelings. So I really wanted to get keys for the second beta to try it again. Unfortunatly it didn't change much. I would like to buy it and enjoy, but I think TSW is just not for me.

Originally posted by ste2000

Originally posted by Aerowyn

I find this games combat a ton more interesting that SWTOR.. SWTOR i litteraly was falling asleep while fighting. I found SWTOR to also be more clunky and didn't flow very well at all but maybe that's just me... this game could still use a lot of work with the flow and feeling of some animations especially the basic movement ones and I think that would help a lot in peoples initial reaction towards the combat... once you get a couple decks to play around with the system is a lot more fun and actually gets pretty interesting.

It's hardly a consolation that TSW combat is better than SWTOR................

I have to say that TSW feels really shallow, it is as casual as it gets, borderline single player game.

That is not bad in itself, but the Combat doesn't help the cause.

Apart from the original settings, and the good quest system, TSW has very little to offer.

 

heh i was just commenting on the other poster saying swtor had better combat.

Also in red is mainly why Ill be playing.. no real long term plans for this one and think people who bought the lifetime sub are sorta nuts but who knows maybe it will grow on me more but honestly just hoping it keeps me entertained until gw2 is out. And if I do end up liking it more well,  i can just play both:)

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Apart from the original settings, and the good quest system

Also in red is mainly why Ill be playing.. no real long term plans for this one and think people who bought the lifetime sub are sorta nuts but who knows maybe it will grow on me more but honestly just hoping it keeps me entertained until gw2 is out. And if I do end up liking it more well,  i can just play both:)

I am curious if you find dungeons, open world content like lairs with summonable lair bosses, minigames or persistant PvP to be interesting and something you would like to do in TSW?

Originally posted by ste2000

Originally posted by Aerowyn

I find this games combat a ton more interesting that SWTOR.. SWTOR i litteraly was falling asleep while fighting. I found SWTOR to also be more clunky and didn't flow very well at all but maybe that's just me... this game could still use a lot of work with the flow and feeling of some animations especially the basic movement ones and I think that would help a lot in peoples initial reaction towards the combat... once you get a couple decks to play around with the system is a lot more fun and actually gets pretty interesting.

It's hardly a consolation that TSW combat is better than SWTOR................

I have to say that TSW feels really shallow, it is as casual as it gets, borderline single player game.

That is not bad in itself, but the Combat doesn't help the cause.

Apart from the original settings, and the good quest system, TSW has very little to offer.

 

Say what. I can understand the problems people are having, but this BS.

PVP, dungeons, achivementes, London theatre, crafting, skill metagaming, etc. yes, very little to offer.