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Posts: 3539 Joined: 7/16/11
Novice Member
RefMinor
 
 
Originally posted by Vinterkrig

In the long run, this game will be the same as HnH , with a slightly higher population. 

Custom clients is in my opinion a huge mistake on the company's part. Basically if you want to keep pace with other people you need to use some client some guy modified. That ideas behind the game are neat, but I don't take the company very serious by allowing such things to happen, and I certainly won't be taking part of any microtransactions. 

I agree with this, I was disappointed to find there was a custom client which marked resource on the minimap which basically meant you see all available resource instead of spotting it for yourself. It is clearly approved as there is a thread on the official forums.

Posts: 1229 Joined: 4/15/06
Hard Core Member
Ichmen 

well if its the ender client.. that has been the stable for these guys since HNH... as without ender's hnh client the game is downright unplayable.. as it gives you a map out line of boar attack ranges and such. and land claims... which the base client never had.. and really should have.. 

frankly if they are still using ender as their go to for client.. im kinda worried they are basicly just making hnh 2.0... which means the game will have the life span of moldy bread... i like hnh but frankly i dont want an exact clone >>" which every beta video i watch sums this up to.. 

its like playing CoD 1 and then playing CoD 2... same game just a flashier cover... i hope its just a beta thing and that they will make their own offical client...other wise whats the point not using cheats in the game too... they allowed botting in hnh to the point people had 1+ alts just logging trees and another 1+ just transporting trees.. same with mining and farming.. 

i kinda hoped having paradox as a publisher they would hopefully curtail the "modding" aspects of the game.. i like the ender client but id rather have it as the offical default >>" then a 3rd party

Posts: 3539 Joined: 7/16/11
Novice Member
RefMinor
 
 
Yes, it is the Ender client
Posts: 728 Joined: 10/06/11
Novice Member
Biskop 
Well I've got to say I'm a bit disappointed so far.. Salem is basically H&H 2 in an ugly 3D world. And since I've always found H&H to be a very grindy game with pretty boring mechanics, I can't see myself playing Salem extensively.

Too bad, it looked really promising.. : (
Posts: 4097 Joined: 4/03/12
Elite Member
GeezerGamer 

What is the overall impression of this game?

Posts: 2133 Joined: 3/26/12
Advanced Member
TwoThreeFour 

Some statements by the developer known as "Brother Bean" in the CB forum:

 

Botting and custom clients are first of all two entirely separate issues. On the subject of custom clients Ender -- who developed the standard custom client for our other game H&H -- has been in the Salem alpha for quite some time with the more or less explicit intention on our part that he'd be able to develop a custom client if he so choose. I fully support him in that endeavor and think it's great that he does what he does.

There exists a misconception that we *can* somehow prevent custom clients from being used. If we could in any feasible way do that we just might, but since we can't -- a user's system is always in a very fundamental sense in control of all I/O that the client sends, receives and presents -- we have instead opted for the alternate route of encouraging their development. The best we could ever hope for is making custom client builders jump through some hoops, and that is ultimately an entirely futile exercise. Why not let people innovate and add convenient things to the game that we didn't think of or simply didn't put in there?

On the subject of botting our general philosophy is to try to remove incentives for botting rather than trying to attack and prevent botting as such. The latter approach we believe to be flawed for the same reason that we do not prevent custom clients from being used: The user's system is always in control of all I/O. We cannot change that, nor would we really want to.

 

and here is a reply Brother Bean wrote to the tester Dallane:

 

 

 

Quote Originally Posted by Dallane View Post

I'm trying to figure out why everyone who post about custom clients lead their post directly into botting. Other then foraging i have no idea what would be a good bot to even have. With a forage bot your character will be exposed at all times and with limited inventory space you will not get far even with eating and study along the way. Without all the teleporting that happens in hnh you will have to stay outside your walls or hope that your script works to close a gate. HnH botting was done behind brick walls, deep in a mine or with alts collecting tons of dirt clay or trees. Most of those activities are much different here and don't really make sense to bot.

"

Indeed. It has been a conscious and ongoing effort on our part to try to design mechanics in such a way that botting them doesn't feel attractive. The main concept we throw around in our discussions on the subject is "decisions". The one thing that machines cannot do as effectively as humans -- lacking the inherent capability of teleological action -- is to decide between multiple outcomes where all potential outcomes are -- in one sense or another and depending on context -- acceptable. For example, do you eat the chestnut, or do you study it? Most humans A) Have no problem whatsoever determining which course of action best advances their present goals and B) Quite like making meaningful decisions on how to play the game. A bot faced with the same situation has a tougher time, as it needs to be provided by its maker with some sort of AI strategy to make that decision, and programming that AI can quickly expand into a project where the AI basically has to be able to play the entire game.

Mechanics that lend themselves well to botting are mechanics that are completely devoid of decision making -- i.e. that are dull and repetitative -- foraging in Salem is probably the least decision intensive activity you can engage in presently -- walk, pick, walk, pick, walk, pick -- and that is a concern of ours that we have been discussing ways of changing. As Dallane points out, however, we at least have the saving graces here that you cannot wilderness spawn freely as you can in Haven, and that you cannot teleport home with things in your inventory. A bot that walks out to gather poo-poo must thus, at the very least, be able to make its own way home again.

I fully expect there to be bots accomplishing various tasks in the game at one point or another -- to the extent that such tasks can be isolated and performed well and efficiently in a closed circuit that a bot can handle -- so don't take this as some sort of declaration of victory on my part in the war on the machines. The war on the machines never ends, but I like to think that the frontlines are at least not collapsing in on us.

 

 

Posts: 111 Joined: 12/27/07
Novice Member
necredon 

I got killed of 2 days ago.

I got attacked by two "raiders" ( I think they were anyway), one with a gun, the other with a sword. I dodged and dodged and ran and swam until the attack portrait dissapeared, then because I thought it would work I closed my client, as its the only way to log out, figuring my character not being in combat would just dissapear. Logged back on to be certain finding him gone.. A foolish mistake, made because there was talk on the forums about it ( unconfirmed though).

Sadly enough, this marks the end of my Salem period, the huge time investment required to keep up with fellow villagers and the first 10 hours being quite monotonous are just htings I don't have time for right now.

The game is alot of fun though, and the social aspect is just... Well great, it is much more easy to meet people, and there is actually a point to it. I don't know, I had fun but i'm not doing it again.

Posts: 1229 Joined: 4/15/06
Hard Core Member
Ichmen 
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Some statements by the developer known as "Brother Bean" in the CB forum:

 

Botting and custom clients are first of all two entirely separate issues. On the subject of custom clients Ender -- who developed the standard custom client for our other game H&H -- has been in the Salem alpha for quite some time with the more or less explicit intention on our part that he'd be able to develop a custom client if he so choose. I fully support him in that endeavor and think it's great that he does what he does.

There exists a misconception that we *can* somehow prevent custom clients from being used. If we could in any feasible way do that we just might, but since we can't -- a user's system is always in a very fundamental sense in control of all I/O that the client sends, receives and presents -- we have instead opted for the alternate route of encouraging their development. The best we could ever hope for is making custom client builders jump through some hoops, and that is ultimately an entirely futile exercise. Why not let people innovate and add convenient things to the game that we didn't think of or simply didn't put in there?

On the subject of botting our general philosophy is to try to remove incentives for botting rather than trying to attack and prevent botting as such. The latter approach we believe to be flawed for the same reason that we do not prevent custom clients from being used: The user's system is always in control of all I/O. We cannot change that, nor would we really want to.

 

and here is a reply Brother Bean wrote to the tester Dallane:

 

 

 

Quote Originally Posted by Dallane View Post

I'm trying to figure out why everyone who post about custom clients lead their post directly into botting. Other then foraging i have no idea what would be a good bot to even have. With a forage bot your character will be exposed at all times and with limited inventory space you will not get far even with eating and study along the way. Without all the teleporting that happens in hnh you will have to stay outside your walls or hope that your script works to close a gate. HnH botting was done behind brick walls, deep in a mine or with alts collecting tons of dirt clay or trees. Most of those activities are much different here and don't really make sense to bot.

"

Indeed. It has been a conscious and ongoing effort on our part to try to design mechanics in such a way that botting them doesn't feel attractive. The main concept we throw around in our discussions on the subject is "decisions". The one thing that machines cannot do as effectively as humans -- lacking the inherent capability of teleological action -- is to decide between multiple outcomes where all potential outcomes are -- in one sense or another and depending on context -- acceptable. For example, do you eat the chestnut, or do you study it? Most humans A) Have no problem whatsoever determining which course of action best advances their present goals and B) Quite like making meaningful decisions on how to play the game. A bot faced with the same situation has a tougher time, as it needs to be provided by its maker with some sort of AI strategy to make that decision, and programming that AI can quickly expand into a project where the AI basically has to be able to play the entire game.

Mechanics that lend themselves well to botting are mechanics that are completely devoid of decision making -- i.e. that are dull and repetitative -- foraging in Salem is probably the least decision intensive activity you can engage in presently -- walk, pick, walk, pick, walk, pick -- and that is a concern of ours that we have been discussing ways of changing. As Dallane points out, however, we at least have the saving graces here that you cannot wilderness spawn freely as you can in Haven, and that you cannot teleport home with things in your inventory. A bot that walks out to gather poo-poo must thus, at the very least, be able to make its own way home again.

I fully expect there to be bots accomplishing various tasks in the game at one point or another -- to the extent that such tasks can be isolated and performed well and efficiently in a closed circuit that a bot can handle -- so don't take this as some sort of declaration of victory on my part in the war on the machines. The war on the machines never ends, but I like to think that the frontlines are at least not collapsing in on us.

 

 

then why dont they just scrap their offical client and make enders the offical client?? they seem to use the excuse (players will do it better) which while true for the most part.. kinda sounds like a copout to me.  just because ender was a great client in HnH doesnt mean the devs cant make a better one.. sounds to me like they knew he would make the client and just said "screw it.. here is a PoS client go use enders" 

as for their botting.. that bothers me, sounds like they arent even going to try and combat it at all.  saying they will make it less effective is like saying, there are no hacks in counter strike..

just because to them it seems less effective doesnt mean it will be.  over all it sounds like they just arent interested in making their game high quality or secure.. whats to stop someone using a hack to give them selves god mode? or modify their stats??  if this is the stance they take on player modifications...  it kinda worries me, reading the HnH forums about bug abuse and how they arent even combating it a majority of the time makes me wonder if they will follow that trend here as well. 

 

but still i honestly dont see why they can not make a client just as good as enders.  i mean fallout had player modded UI that just improved the base UI. same with skyrim and other games.  the mods only improved it for ease of use or sorting.. enders in HnH overhaulled the client so much that it was a whole new client pretty much. (fact is.. salem like HnH pretty much HAS to have the ender to be playable... which is what bugs me the most)

Posts: 728 Joined: 10/06/11
Novice Member
Biskop 
Originally posted by Ichmen
 

then why dont they just scrap their offical client and make enders the offical client?? they seem to use the excuse (players will do it better) which while true for the most part.. kinda sounds like a copout to me.  just because ender was a great client in HnH doesnt mean the devs cant make a better one.. sounds to me like they knew he would make the client and just said "screw it.. here is a PoS client go use enders" 

as for their botting.. that bothers me, sounds like they arent even going to try and combat it at all.  saying they will make it less effective is like saying, there are no hacks in counter strike..

just because to them it seems less effective doesnt mean it will be.  over all it sounds like they just arent interested in making their game high quality or secure.. whats to stop someone using a hack to give them selves god mode? or modify their stats??  if this is the stance they take on player modifications...  it kinda worries me, reading the HnH forums about bug abuse and how they arent even combating it a majority of the time makes me wonder if they will follow that trend here as well. 

 

but still i honestly dont see why they can not make a client just as good as enders.  i mean fallout had player modded UI that just improved the base UI. same with skyrim and other games.  the mods only improved it for ease of use or sorting.. enders in HnH overhaulled the client so much that it was a whole new client pretty much. (fact is.. salem like HnH pretty much HAS to have the ender to be playable... which is what bugs me the most)

I agree completely. There are three problems with their stance as I see it:

1) it makes the use of fan-made clients, bots and such mandatory, which is really bad in a ffa pvp, permadeath game. Even though fights will never be "fair", people generally don't like losing their character because the other guy had the latest pro client that you only find through forums and fansites. If they're allowing the Ender client and it is much better than the original one, make it the standard client instead.

2) It opens up for abuse; if you can freely use bots and custom clients, why not use hacks, cheats and other win-mode stuff as well? 

3) It sends a very unprofessional signal to the community and potential players; the devs are basically saying "we can't stop 3d party software so we just gave up on trying to control it". The game is very grindy and you run the risk of losing your character and assets - why would anyone want to commit to such a game if it's full of dev-sanctioned bots, hacks and other 3d-party software? New players will be a at a serious disadvantage and feel completely handicapped compared to the vets, and that is something that always hinder a game's growth beyond the small circle of commited hardcores.

Posts: 2133 Joined: 3/26/12
Advanced Member
TwoThreeFour 
 

then why dont they just scrap their offical client and make enders the offical client?? they seem to use the excuse (players will do it better) which while true for the most part.. kinda sounds like a copout to me.  just because ender was a great client in HnH doesnt mean the devs cant make a better one.. sounds to me like they knew he would make the client and just said "screw it.. here is a PoS client go use enders" 

as for their botting.. that bothers me, sounds like they arent even going to try and combat it at all.  saying they will make it less effective is like saying, there are no hacks in counter strike..

just because to them it seems less effective doesnt mean it will be.  over all it sounds like they just arent interested in making their game high quality or secure.. whats to stop someone using a hack to give them selves god mode? or modify their stats??  if this is the stance they take on player modifications...  it kinda worries me, reading the HnH forums about bug abuse and how they arent even combating it a majority of the time makes me wonder if they will follow that trend here as well. 

 

but still i honestly dont see why they can not make a client just as good as enders.  i mean fallout had player modded UI that just improved the base UI. same with skyrim and other games.  the mods only improved it for ease of use or sorting.. enders in HnH overhaulled the client so much that it was a whole new client pretty much. (fact is.. salem like HnH pretty much HAS to have the ender to be playable... which is what bugs me the most)

 

I can you my view on a few your questions.

 

then why dont they just scrap their offical client and make enders the offical client?? they seem to use the excuse (players will do it better) which while true for the most part.. kinda sounds like a copout to me.  just because ender was a great client in HnH doesnt mean the devs cant make a better one.. sounds to me like they knew he would make the client and just said "screw it.. here is a PoS client go use enders" 

Because there are is at least one more good custom client besides Enders. I would suspect that they wan't to play favourites. On the other hand, haven't asked about why they don't make a sticky list over "trusted clients". I do agree though that because there are good custom clients, they spent focus their development time elsewhere mostly.

 

as for their botting.. that bothers me, sounds like they arent even going to try and combat it at all.  saying they will make it less effective is like saying, there are no hacks in counter strike..

You are exaggerating, they are simply saying that they prefer changing the game mechanics so that they are not efficiently bottable rather than spend a lot of resources chasing the botters. This is specially evident in their discussion of why they changed the teleport system (since in Haven & Hearth you could instantly teleport from anywhere to your home, but here you need to empty your inventory to do so), they gave anti-botting as one of several reasons.

 

just because to them it seems less effective doesnt mean it will be.  over all it sounds like they just arent interested in making their game high quality or secure.. whats to stop someone using a hack to give them selves god mode? or modify their stats??  if this is the stance they take on player moddifications...  it kinda worries me, reading the HnH forums about bug abuse and how they arent even combating it a majority of the time makes me wonder if they will follow that trend here as well. 

That's why they have a real closed beta that isn't a marketing ploy. They are actively taking tester feedback and doing actual changes. As for the god mode: by making the hp and death checks all serverside, which is pretty common in MMORPGs nowadays.  Analogous answer for "modify their stats".

As for Haven & Hearth: as far as I know they don't seem to update it at all. Salem seems to be their top priority and the real deal.

One example of feedback and changes: there that caused people who had been knock-outed on a forbidden claim, to be stuck there until server goes to maintenance. There was also a lot of feedback of people raiding newbies. They fixed the bug so that your character stays online for 24 hours if its gets knock-outed on forbidden claim.

 

but still i honestly dont see why they can not make a client just as good as enders.  i mean fallout had player modded UI that just improved the base UI. same with skyrim and other games.  the mods only improved it for ease of use or sorting.. enders in HnH overhaulled the client so much that it was a whole new client pretty much. (fact is.. salem like HnH pretty much HAS to have the ender to be playable... which is what bugs me the most)

 

Imagination and prioritizing developing other aspects of the game I would think would answer that. However, Ender is not a must, a custom client is a must, but not necesseraly Ender's.

 

 

 

Posts: 2133 Joined: 3/26/12
Advanced Member
TwoThreeFour 
Originally posted by Biskop
Originally posted by Ichmen
 

then why dont they just scrap their offical client and make enders the offical client?? they seem to use the excuse (players will do it better) which while true for the most part.. kinda sounds like a copout to me.  just because ender was a great client in HnH doesnt mean the devs cant make a better one.. sounds to me like they knew he would make the client and just said "screw it.. here is a PoS client go use enders" 

as for their botting.. that bothers me, sounds like they arent even going to try and combat it at all.  saying they will make it less effective is like saying, there are no hacks in counter strike..

just because to them it seems less effective doesnt mean it will be.  over all it sounds like they just arent interested in making their game high quality or secure.. whats to stop someone using a hack to give them selves god mode? or modify their stats??  if this is the stance they take on player modifications...  it kinda worries me, reading the HnH forums about bug abuse and how they arent even combating it a majority of the time makes me wonder if they will follow that trend here as well. 

 

but still i honestly dont see why they can not make a client just as good as enders.  i mean fallout had player modded UI that just improved the base UI. same with skyrim and other games.  the mods only improved it for ease of use or sorting.. enders in HnH overhaulled the client so much that it was a whole new client pretty much. (fact is.. salem like HnH pretty much HAS to have the ender to be playable... which is what bugs me the most)

I agree completely. There are three problems with their stance as I see it:

1) it makes the use of fan-made clients, bots and such mandatory, which is really bad in a ffa pvp, permadeath game. Even though fights will never be "fair", people generally don't like losing their character because the other guy had the latest pro client that you only find through forums and fansites. If they're allowing the Ender client and it is much better than the original one, make it the standard client instead.

2) It opens up for abuse; if you can freely use bots and custom clients, why not use hacks, cheats and other win-mode stuff as well? 

3) It sends a very unprofessional signal to the community and potential players; the devs are basically saying "we can't stop 3d party software so we just gave up on trying to control it". The game is very grindy and you run the risk of losing your character and assets - why would anyone want to commit to such a game if it's full of dev-sanctioned bots, hacks and other 3d-party software? New players will be a at a serious disadvantage and feel completely handicapped compared to the vets, and that is something that always hinder a game's growth beyond the small circle of commited hardcores.

 

1. They are against bots but they prefer changing game mechanics so that botting becomes inefficient rather than spending lots of resources fighting them. The only thing that is currently mandatory is fan-made clients, and the source of the original client is open source. 

Furthermore, if losing because the other guy has a much better client than the publically available ones, then yes, that becomes a problem. At this point, it doesn't seem to be the case yet. 

There is a people radar that isn't public, but I am guessing that it is a matter of days before it goes public. Other than that I don't see what other advantages other people have in combat due to non-public clients at this point.

 

2) They are against hacks too, but they prefer coding so that the hacks that can be done are harmless. One example would be a hack that changes the appearance of your character on your screen but not on the screens of other players. Not seen or heard about any god-modes, stat or speed hacks: all of them are fixable by letting calls/functions related to them be completely serversided, which I guess they already did.

 

3) They are against bots, they are against hacks, they are not against custom clients. The situation ingame currently reflects that.  Currently no reports about any bots and hacks in the beta feedback thread, which is a good sign so far. 

How a new player feels is important and the devs listened when feedback said that some harvestable skill-gaining items were too hard to get for new players, so they introduced a new skill that new players get for free, which allows them to craft new less-effective skill-gaining items so that they have easier time starting up. (The materials were easy-to-get ones mostly)

Posts: 1229 Joined: 4/15/06
Hard Core Member
Ichmen 

i get what you are saying TwoThreeFour.. but  a GUI mod is not a hack.. changing textures and screen GUI really isnt hacking. 

hacking is where you go and instantly unlock all skills in the game on the first day, or modify your stats that you have 1000 in all classes and 1 hit everything.. 

from what i have read about salam.. and how the devs have/had run HnH im really worried this game will be dead before it even has a shot. 

they seem to be relying too heavy on player mods which to me sounds like they arent really dedicated in bringing out a really good game. they put too much expectation in players using 3rd party clients and mods to make their game enjoyable. which to a gamer should be what THEY want... this is kinda like going to mcdonalds wanting a medium rare steak, and getting what ever the hell it is they call steak @_@...

dispite the noob griefing in HnH its a fairly enjoyable game (when it wants to behave..) id love for salam to be 30x better but frankly the way the devs are producing the game right now im kinda disappointed in it. they boast about how great the vision is and all that, but they dont seem to actually care about the game at all.  if they did, they wouldnt be making bots less effective but making bots totally pointless as well as making an offical client that doesnt require a 3rd party to  make it better.  im all for using ender client or whatever.. but i would rather have an offical client that is better then that.  have modified clients that only streamline the hud/gui not revamp the whole freaking game ><"   using HnH's client loadout... the offical one should be basicly  as good as the ender's one. enders should only be used as an optimizer  steamline stuff (kinda how they did it with skyrim) not replace the whole bloody thing. 

i really do hope that this is only do to the beta and they will be overhauling 90% of this stuff before release cause right now.. this game is basicly a 3d  HnH and  suffering the exact same problems. which means while they might boast about having 1500 people... the max they might have is 500 user accounts with 50% being alts that are boting. 

im not too bothered by the graphics personally but i honestly do not like having to use a 3rd party client (to me that crys of lazy, and if the devs are lazy then the game will be coded lazy.. :/ )

 

a random question as i was checking the salam forums a while back.. any word on how they plan to setup player towns?? i was reading that they did away with most of the defense walls.. have they altered the user claim protection at all?? i personally dont like the fact they allow players to punch down solid walls but to take the walls out all together will limit the "noobs" protection from being PK farmed by more experianced/older players.

Posts: 2133 Joined: 3/26/12
Advanced Member
TwoThreeFour 
Originally posted by Ichmen

i get what you are saying TwoThreeFour.. but  a GUI mod is not a hack.. changing textures and screen GUI really isnt hacking. 

hacking is where you go and instantly unlock all skills in the game on the first day, or modify your stats that you have 1000 in all classes and 1 hit everything.. 

from what i have read about salam.. and how the devs have/had run HnH im really worried this game will be dead before it even has a shot. 

they seem to be relying too heavy on player mods which to me sounds like they arent really dedicated in bringing out a really good game. they put too much expectation in players using 3rd party clients and mods to make their game enjoyable. which to a gamer should be what THEY want... this is kinda like going to mcdonalds wanting a medium rare steak, and getting what ever the hell it is they call steak @_@...

dispite the noob griefing in HnH its a fairly enjoyable game (when it wants to behave..) id love for salam to be 30x better but frankly the way the devs are producing the game right now im kinda disappointed in it. they boast about how great the vision is and all that, but they dont seem to actually care about the game at all.  if they did, they wouldnt be making bots less effective but making bots totally pointless as well as making an offical client that doesnt require a 3rd party to  make it better.  im all for using ender client or whatever.. but i would rather have an offical client that is better then that.  have modified clients that only streamline the hud/gui not revamp the whole freaking game ><"   using HnH's client loadout... the offical one should be basicly  as good as the ender's one. enders should only be used as an optimizer  steamline stuff (kinda how they did it with skyrim) not replace the whole bloody thing. 

i really do hope that this is only do to the beta and they will be overhauling 90% of this stuff before release cause right now.. this game is basicly a 3d  HnH and  suffering the exact same problems. which means while they might boast about having 1500 people... the max they might have is 500 user accounts with 50% being alts that are boting. 

im not too bothered by the graphics personally but i honestly do not like having to use a 3rd party client (to me that crys of lazy, and if the devs are lazy then the game will be coded lazy.. :/ )

 

a random question as i was checking the salam forums a while back.. any word on how they plan to setup player towns?? i was reading that they did away with most of the defense walls.. have they altered the user claim protection at all?? i personally dont like the fact they allow players to punch down solid walls but to take the walls out all together will limit the "noobs" protection from being PK farmed by more experianced/older players.

 

Hacking includes situations in which you change the memory that the game is currently using. While in some older games, you  could achieve ridiculous ingame advantages that way, you could also change graphical aspects that way. 

 

Currently alts seem to be very cumbersome to grow and rather useless other than to store items which you don't want to be stolen. The alt can't be spawned directly to your home, it has to walk all the way from Boston (the starter city) to your home, which is usually hours of travel.

 

Not sure about the town mechanics at all, since I am hermit.

 

The defense mechanims are currently too weak, in my opinion. There are two types of walls: wooden fence and stone wall, but raiders are already breaking stone walls. Not super-fast, but maybe under one hour? Not quite sure, would have to ask in forum. I read about a hermit who was raided by two raiders and his stone wall was broken. 

The developers have stated that they intend to completely overhaul the battle system at some point: the current one is just a placeholder.

Currently the world seems to be a raider heaven. There is no renowned ranger or even anyone offering ranger services (ranger is a person who hunts down criminals; the term comes from Haven & Hearth).

I suppose the population needs to go down to about 100 active during primetime, before they decide to make it even harder for raiders. They have done some changes lately that have made it harder for them (such as the introduction of stone wall and the summoning from Haven & Hearth), but it is not enough, in my opinion.

 

Edit:

Received an answer: less than 10 minutes if it is undefended by players online. Practically impossible if there are players online who know what they are doing. In other words: they need to fix it, it is too easy to break into someone's home :(.

Posts: 992 Joined: 2/14/04
Novice Member
Larsa 

Sounds like Salem is not more than Haven & Hearth 2.0 reskinned at the moment. Okay, with some not-yet implemented features maybe.

I had expected that - with a publisher and a commercial project - the developers would soften their stance on FFA PvP a bit. Somehow I can't see how a cash shop is supposed to tie into that.

Posts: 1229 Joined: 4/15/06
Hard Core Member
Ichmen 

call me bias but i really do not agree with allowing players to melee defense walls with their bare hands.. even in HnH i think the only wall a person should beable to "bash" are the round fence.. as to me its a picket fence.. 

while its great salem will over haul that.. i really do hope they do away with players being able to break any sort of wall with a hammer... sure in hnh most have 100+ str and a high Q sledgehammer but honestly i think its just retarded to allow that as a mechanic.

as for defending.. thats only useful if you can defend.  when i was pked in HnH the first time the guy 1 hit me for 1500 dmg. i had 0 fighting skills besides UA. as well given that most raiders run as a duel team or more.. having 4 people hit your walls pretty much means you will be sniped before you really do anything :/

they really should make the battering ram a more important item. once a person has an actual wall up it shouldnt be just "hot knife through butter"ed 

i really do hope they make walls impregnable to anything other then a battering ram.  i mean hell they had chests in hnh that you had to use a ram on... yet the pally wall you didnt... sounds kinda stupid to me.

 

i just really hope alot of the bad crap they have right now are just temp and will be improved before launch.. while i like HnH id rather salam be something more then just a reclone of it :/ given the fact iv been reading about raiders this early on in their beta.. is kinda worrysome.  id kinda rather see raiders take time to develop instead you can become a raider at day one almost   which could lead to a huge drop in players if a new player walks out of boston and is wiped out by 30 raiders just camping. 

Posts: 148 Joined: 12/14/03
Advanced Member
LydarSynn 

I am in the beta. I am having alot of fun. The game eally makes you think- do I want to develop my skills, my attributes or expand and improve my land? This is all modified by things that you find in your travels. You need a plan to improve and survuve in this game but you need to be flexicle as well, The devs have made alot of changes recently especially with combat skills. Raiders are going to have alot more work to do before they are robbing and murdering other players.  Hopefully, there will be continued improvement into launch. Specifically, the devs ar working on a major combat patch. his game won't be for everyone especially for those who want instant gratification. I think the player base will most definitely be older gamers.

 
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