Moslty I solo.  That's because I generally don't like to group with idiots or people I wouldn't hang out with in RL.  I also rarely know how much time I'll be able to invest at a sitting and don't want too be that guy who bails out a thrid of the way into a raid or task force type event.  So if my wife or a friend is the particular game I feel like playing at a given time, then I'll group and have a great time.  Sometimes I'll get on  PUG if I need it for a quest or want a change of pace, and I might or might not add someone to the list of people I'll group with.  But games with forced grouping, even if it's just content too heavilly skewed in that direction, are a No Go.  I've spent too much time in years past waiting around for an instance, raid or whatever while someone tries to find a healer or pally or whatever.  I've spent too much time losing XP because the only group available for this or that zone or instance couldn't cross the street together or even clean their collective backside with both hands and a fire hose.  My gameplay experience should not be limited because some chowderhead can't survive on his own or feels "It's just not right to be able to play solo!  Go play Dragonage if you don't want to group!  Waaahh!" 

Considering how many people like to both solo and group depending on their mood, available playtime and such, smart developers will provide enough content to allow both a rich solo and group experiencel.

I am looking for a game that rewards grouping fully. The book quests in Lotro would of been great if they had been group from beginning to end. Give groups a reason to stick together, long rewarding quest lines, or interesting multi-tree'd dungeons. I also would like equipment removed from the majority of quests. Make simple crafting for generic equipment and multi quest chains or exotic crafting recipes or dungeon crawls for gear. I'd also like to see some sort of crafting grouping in a game sometimes. Not just the current multi-craft recipes, but recipes that require 3 or 4 separate people to be grouped at the same time to fashion a special item.

While making all classes able to solo at all times, I don't have a problem with some classes being much more difficult to solo with. I would like to see a game that no class could solo multiple even level mobs, or mobs of higher level. Never understood the idea of someone killing mobs higher in level. 

This game won't appeal to the WoW masses so it probably will be a long wait. If well programmed, it would have a following large enough to be profitable though. Way too many easy, solo to max games and burn through end game out already. Nostalgia for EQ1 pre-pop runs rampant. And going back would be as rewarding for me at least. Even the progression was fun, but it wasn't fully back to the way EQ1 was. Camping orcs and dervs in WC with a pug group, watching out for giants, was a good thing for me.

I recall back in the day when you could purchase a single player RPG and it would last weeks and in some cases even months... Games like Ultima 4-7 and The Magic Candle, even some of the earlier Might and Magic games as well... Games like Ultima 4 advertised 400+ hours and if you played through the entire game as intended it was a very rewarding experience

These games were all awesome and full of imersion and depth for their time, and when you stopped playing, you couldn't wait to play again... Today it is VERY rare that a good single player RPG is made, companies like Bioware are successful at it based on a long standing reputation as a premier RPG developer based on the strength of their Baldur's Gate series. But still even with how awesome Dragon Age is.... I go out and spend $50 on the game only to get at most 40 hours out of it? For companies today to develop an RPG is such a huge risk, they still cost a ton to make but provide the least amount of return on investment compared to some of these bubble gum pop games or even these games hammered out to meet some latest movie franchise.

The only REAL alternative for an RPG enthusiast is to play an MMORPG, they are (mostly) very rich with decent imersion and character development and are constantly evolving (well in some cases also devolving) with content and expansions that are funded by subscriptions. I mean would you pay $10-15 a month to play a single player game if they promised a continuous development cycle? If you answered YES well you are probably the minority...

I enjoy soloing in MMO's in doing so I am in charge of my pace and destiny, grouping is merely a means of getting something done I can't on my own...

Lastly, I hate you all, the amount of douchebaggery, epeen, leetism etc... I wouldn't be friends with you all IRL, so why the hell would I want to be "eFriends" with you... MMO communities are the equivalent of kids running around with magnifying glasses burning ants on the ground... No one plays games anymore for the fun of it, it is a constant "trophy hunt" to show "I am better than joo"... Hell I am old school, I want to have fun in a game and I want to have my fun on my own terms.

I can assure you all here there are LOTS of fun stuff to do in an MMO that does'nt require you to be in a group.

To information; there are many other and important aspects of an MMO rather than levels. I point this fact especially at alll those narrowminded group fanatics who's locked in their eternal denial bubble.

Now, can ANYONE here give me one good reason why we should be forced into to a Group against our will?

I also have this question to the group-fanatics; You whine so much about MMO's are degenerating that is has become a gnall in our ears. Now, what is the solution of this "problem" which seem only to exist in your own brains? Let me tell you this straight; if you ain't have any solution, well then you really should stop whining about it, cause then it obviously are'nt any problems.

Originally posted by chrisel

Now, can ANYONE here give me one good reason why we should be forced into to a Group against our will?

Lulz-worthy statement.

Also, if you're not willing to listen, I'm not willing to explain.

Edit: GF nagging behind me. I had 2 thread posts in my head same time.

LoL.

Originally posted by chrisel

Again. No answer. I have asked this question a dozen times. No answer yet.

Well, if you have no answer, I guess there aint no problem then. Other than to hand out more solo content.

Case closed.

Like I said, if you won't listen to the answer then I can't help you.

But if you want to try, read the thread. The answer is there.

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by chrisel

Now, can ANYONE here give me one good reason why we should be forced into to a Group against our will?

 

Lulz-worthy statement.

Also, if you're not willing to listen, I'm not willing to explain.

 

Great reply. I am overwhelmed by your intelligent answer. You must be working in NASA. If not, you are even above that.

How can I listen to something that is not written? Oh right, you expect me to play MMO's for your pleasures sake...? Yeah right. Will never happen. Not even if you paid me.

0.00000000000000001/10

Originally posted by chrisel

 

Great reply. I am overwhelmed by your intelligent answer. You must be working in NASA. If not, you are even above that.

How can I listen to something that is not written? Oh right, you expect me to play MMO's for your pleasures sake...? Yeah right. Will never happen. Not even if you paid me.

0.00000000000000001/10

Who is forcing you to buy the game off the shelf? Who is forcing you to play the game? Who are these evil people, I'll get rid of them for you.

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by chrisel

 

Great reply. I am overwhelmed by your intelligent answer. You must be working in NASA. If not, you are even above that.

How can I listen to something that is not written? Oh right, you expect me to play MMO's for your pleasures sake...? Yeah right. Will never happen. Not even if you paid me.

0.00000000000000001/10

 

Who is forcing you to buy the game off the shelf? Who is forcing you to play the game? Who are these evil people, I'll get rid of them for you.

Like it is written on all MMO's that it's content is exculisvely for groups only? Well, maybe the MMO's should have a warning on them then? And NO! It is not "obvious" that any MMO should have content that is for groups only.

Now, stop sidetracking to my question. Please, give me a good reason why people should be forced into groups when they don't want to.

Originally posted by chrisel

And NO! It is not "obvious" that any MMO should have content that is for groups only.

Now, stop sidetracking to my question. Please, give me a good reason why people should be forced into groups when they don't want to.

Some content should be solo based and some content should be group based - I would have thought that was fairly obvious. If the MMO designers are trying to design every encounter so it can be completed by both group and solo it makes things much more limiting. It's easier to design two entirely separate encounters (one solo and one group) rather than trying to design everything scalable.

Most MMOs are set in a war environment, and sometimes in wars you need a small group to achieve something, it cannot all be done solo. Other things can be solved by a loan James Bond type or silent assassin. It's unfortunate that lack of class diversity has made people think a team is not necessary. In reality there is a big difference between a warrior, a thief/ninja and a healer.

Sometimes in real life people just have to work as a team to achieve something. If you take that element out of game design you are clearly limiting the scope of the encounters or situations available.

Originally posted by chrisel

 

Like it is written on all MMO's that it's content is exculisvely for groups only? Well, maybe the MMO's should have a warning on them then? And NO! It is not "obvious" that any MMO should have content that is for groups only.

Now, stop sidetracking to my question. Please, give me a good reason why people should be forced into groups when they don't want to.

Yeah, you should always buy a game without looking into it first. Without a huge sign saying "THIS GAME IS AN FPS" you won't be able to find out it's an FPS. If somebody is dumb enough to buy a game without even checking a review or asking a friend about it, he deserves a bad experience from it, because that is stupidity at it's finest.

Why do you want to take away a game that is for groups only from me? That's quite selfish of you, to be honest.

Those who don't want to group won't play the game. Those who want to group play the game. Thus, no one is forced. Why should they be forced? That is just bad. If there really is a secret organization that forces innocent players to buy the game off the shelf and play it against their will, you can tell me and we can call the authorities.

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by chrisel

 

Like it is written on all MMO's that it's content is exculisvely for groups only? Well, maybe the MMO's should have a warning on them then? And NO! It is not "obvious" that any MMO should have content that is for groups only.

Now, stop sidetracking to my question. Please, give me a good reason why people should be forced into groups when they don't want to.

 

Yeah, you should always buy a game without looking into it first. Without a huge sign saying "THIS GAME IS AN FPS" you won't be able to find out it's an FPS. If somebody is dumb enough to buy a game without even checking a review or asking a friend about it, he deserves a bad experience from it, because that is stupidity at it's finest.

Why do you want to take away a game that is for groups only from me? That's quite selfish of you, to be honest.

Those who don't want to group won't play the game. Those who want to group play the game. Thus, no one is forced. Why should they be forced? That is just bad. If there really is a secret organization that forces innocent players to buy the game off the shelf and play it against their will, you can tell me and we can call the authorities.

How "appropriate" to compare FPS with an MMO. Why not even compare it with Guitar Hero too? Jeez.... Epic fail.

.

So you assume everyone are on sites like these before buying a game... Interesting view you have upon the world. If you even can understand there is a real world exisiting outside your box, which I doubt. Your approach is pretty selfish, narrowminded & egocentric.

How about those who is so kind that buys a game for someone elese as a gift? They should too check sites like these before buying an MMO?

Why you say I want to take away content from you? I am not after taking anything away from you, rest assured. I only ask for content that suits my playstyle. Now tell me, give me one single example of any MMO that has nothing to offer to a group-fanatic. Just give me one single example. Please. With Sugar on top.

Actually, I was about to buy DDO a few days after it's release. Fortunately did my brother play it, and he strongly adviced me to stay the heck away from it cause it was utter garbage. Now, did I know it was for groups only before he told me? You really expect that people should investigate the games before they buy it? LoL. You are quite pathetic. I buy a game for my own pleasure's sake. I do not want to a play a game for other peoples pleasure. You act selfish and righteous as a group fanatic, but when a soloer does the same, well, it seems all hell breaks loose.

Recent time has taught me to investigate game before I buy them. Earlier years I bought them without hesitating, accepting them as they were. Without any whining; I just left them. Those days are definately gone. Do I expect the same for others? No. Should a gaming company expect the same from their customer/players. Of course not. When you buy an MMO it should clearly state whether it has something or nothing to offer for soloers or not. Or in other words; if its a group based MMO. If players had this warning, from the game producer, it would definately be much easier to decide whether or not to buy it.

By any chance; you are'nt one of those group-fanatics that thinks the MMO is a degenerating genre?

Originally posted by Miner-2049er

Originally posted by chrisel

And NO! It is not "obvious" that any MMO should have content that is for groups only.

Now, stop sidetracking to my question. Please, give me a good reason why people should be forced into groups when they don't want to.

 

Some content should be solo based and some content should be group based - I would have thought that was fairly obvious. If the MMO designers are trying to design every encounter so it can be completed by both group and solo it makes things much more limiting. It's easier to design two entirely separate encounters (one solo and one group) rather than trying to design everything scalable.

Most MMOs are set in a war environment, and sometimes in wars you need a small group to achieve something, it cannot all be done solo. Other things can be solved by a loan James Bond type or silent assassin. It's unfortunate that lack of class diversity has made people think a team is not necessary. In reality there is a big difference between a warrior, a thief/ninja and a healer.

Sometimes in real life people just have to work as a team to achieve something. If you take that element out of game design you are clearly limiting the scope of the encounters or situations available.

 

 

 

Good thing then that we have true heroes like Conan. Unfortunately there exist no MMO yet that lets you play like one...

Still, you have not given any reason why it is so obvious that MMO's should have content for groups only, other than that it is 'fairly obvous'. If thinking does hurt, why not copy & paste my post next time if you have nothing to add but what I just said?

Originally posted by chrisel

Blabla random insults...

 

 

Why you say I want to take away content from you? I am not after taking anything away from you, rest assured. I only ask for content that suits my playstyle. Now tell me, give me one single example of any MMO that has nothing to offer to a group-fanatic. Just give me one single example. Please. With Sugar on top.

 

Random insults: part 2...

 

Recent time has taught me to investigate game before I buy them. Earlier years I bought them without hesitating, accepting them as they were. Without any whining; I just left them. Those days are definately gone. Do I expect the same for others? No. Should a gaming company expect the same from their customer/players. Of course not. When you buy an MMO it should clearly state whether it has something or nothing to offer for soloers or not. Or in other words; if its a group based MMO. If players had this warning, from the game producer, it would definately be much easier to decide whether or not to buy it.

By any chance; you are'nt one of those group-fanatics that thinks the MMO is a degenerating genre?

You ask for content that suits your playstyle, and doesn't suit mine. Selfish. 

WoW has the content so far in the game that I can't reach it. If I had the patience to get to 80 then that's fine, but the 1-79 is what makes it impossible for me. Hey, I could build groups that are inferior to soloing, but I don't like being inferior.

Every idiot who doesn't look into the game before they buy it (or is a 10 year old) deserves what they're getting. Yes, I expect people to look into the games they buy, or they're wasting 80 bucks for some absolute garbage at worst. To some people that matters (obviously not you since you didn't seem to care at first- good to have rich parents I guess). If you don't care enough to at least watch a review or two and spend 80 bucks on something you have no idea about, then I actually hope that the game sucks. That kind of idiot deserves to be punished.

I can't believe you're even arguing this. Really, think what you want but I'm not one to encourage stupid behaviour such as this. There are enough stupid people in the world already.

The genre isn't degenerating, it's just stagnant. And I'm getting to play a game I've been wishing for, so no, I don't think the genre is degenerating. In the end whatever you say doesn't matter; I'm here just to spend time until that game is released anyway.

If you feel insulted for something posted by me,  please point them out, and I will apologize. I have no intention of hurting your feelings poor little one. /pat /pat.

Now, kindly show me one place where I state I want to take content away from you. Please. One place. You are a liar. You are full of it. Just full of it. I am not interested in discussing any more with you, as you finally has shown your true self as a rambling mad man.

/bearhug

Originally posted by chrisel

If you feel insulted for something posted by me,  please point them out, and I will apologize. I have no intention of hurting your feelings poor little one. /pat /pat.

Now, kindly show me one place where I state I want to take content away from you. Please. One place. You are a liar. You are full of it. Just full of it. I am not interested in discussing any more with you, as you finally has shown your true self as a rambling mad man.

/bearhug

 

If that's your way out of the argument before you embarrass yourself even more, then so be it.

You called me a liar, and that I'm a rambling mad man. That is insulting.

Originally posted by Hyanmen

I could build groups that are inferior to soloing, but I don't like being inferior.

I'd question this statement as it applies to WoW.

I solo quite a lot, and there are numerous situations where I'm forced to be careful. It can be when I'm playing a class that doesn't do well against multiple enemies and in a situation where I may get swamped. It can simply be when attempting a quest that is (numerically) a tad above me characters ability to handle.

Sometimes I die. Sometimes I have to run. Sometimes I take a beating and have to use consumables to get myself back in fighting shape. Certain classes really don't solo well.

I've also noticed that soloers outlevel content rather quickly. This means that I often end up doing "green" quests, where the mob kills give reduced XP. I also have a character that I'm duoing with a guildmate; we don't outlevel content but seem to progres at a much faster pace than I do solo.

That said, if your preference is for group grinding, then yeah .. WoW doesn't cater to you at all.

Originally posted by chrisel

Good thing then that we have true heroes like Conan. Unfortunately there exist no MMO yet that lets you play like one...

Still, you have not given any reason why it is so obvious that MMO's should have content for groups only, other than that it is 'fairly obvous'. If thinking does hurt, why not copy & paste my post next time if you have nothing to add but what I just said?

There is really no need to insult someone who is simply trying to discuss something with you. Thinking does not hurt - why would it? I shall try to give you a more specific example to indicate why I feel an MMO should have group content.

Let's suppose an MMO wanted to capture the 'spirit' of an epic encounter such as that in Lord of the Rings at Minas Tirith or a real life battle such as Rorke's Drift (Zulu), and they go to the trouble of designing a location which needs defending with a large group of people. You appear to be suggesting one of two things:

1) They shouldn't produce group only content, so such an idea should be abandoned

OR

2) The event should be scalable.

Taking option (1) would seam remarkable defeatist for a Multi-player game, whereas option (2) would just devalue the encounter and make it feel less epic. Part of the essence of these scenarios is the way the group works together in its defence of key areas. A one-man defence of Minas Tirith would be so ridiculous it would just compromise the whole world created.

Surely it would be equally wrong to have a game event like the Assault on the Death Star (in Star Wars) possible to complete solo. I would love a game that designed something with such epic scope and would consider it just silly if this could be done solo. In the original film, despite Luke's Jedi powers, it was the assistance of Han Solo that cleared the way to his target by removing Darth Vader and made it possible for him to destroy the structure.

I'm not an expert on Conan, but I'm fairly sure he doesn't do everything solo either.

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Originally posted by chrisel

If you feel insulted for something posted by me,  please point them out, and I will apologize. I have no intention of hurting your feelings poor little one. /pat /pat.

Now, kindly show me one place where I state I want to take content away from you. Please. One place. You are a liar. You are full of it. Just full of it. I am not interested in discussing any more with you, as you finally has shown your true self as a rambling mad man.

/bearhug

 

If that's your way out of the argument before you embarrass yourself even more, then so be it.

You called me a liar, and that I'm a rambling mad man. That is insulting.

What is your problem??

This happened BEFORE your reply! Reality check; You ARE a liar! You posted untrue things about me without proving it. Well, dunno what world you are living in, but in the real world that is actually what liars do: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie[/url]

On top of this you act "offended" because I compare this behavior to a rambling man. Oh dear. Want some cheese to all that whine?

Talk about twisting and turning. What are you after here? To provoke and incite flaming? Well actually, I probably shouldn't be surprised if that was the case. Actually, you are giving me plenty of reasons to avoid any further discussion with you, cause I have no idea what you are trying to express me/us here. This is far out.

I am glad the MMO's have reduced the catering to group-fanatics. Personally I find the biggest reason to stay away from MMO's with forced grouping is to be avoiding persons like you. It is definately true that the more solo content an MMO have the better the community is.