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World of Warcraft Editorial: Two Casual Years Later
Steve Wilson drops his hat in the World of Warcraft editorial arena.
By Steve Wilson on November 17, 2006
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World of Warcraft: Two Casual Years Later
Editorial by Steve Wilson
Two years later and I find myself doing something I've never done in any other MMORPG, I'm still playing World of Warcraft. As a casual player I should have long since gotten bored and moved on. It only took 6 months with EverQuest, six months with Asheron's Call, three days with Ultima Online, three months with World War II Online and Planetside and about a year with Star Wars Galaxies. WoW has not only kept me playing longer than all the others, but kept me active and interested in it nearly the whole time. And it turns out I'm not alone; millions of other people are still playing as well. People that many of the amateur experts said were not worth pursuing. After all who would want to play a game made for the unwashed masses? Casual players it was believed couldn't be lured into the gaming world in enough numbers to make the game profitable. Besides, they all leave in six months, once they maxed out their character. The Sims Online flagship of the single most successful series of video games ever made couldn't pull in enough casuals to make their game the blockbuster that was envisioned. And while Star Wars Galaxies was lauded as the coming messiah of the MMO market and managed to draw in a lot of new players, it too failed to live up to the expected hype. An MMO for casual players was considered a fool's dream, impossible to achieve with those fickle casuals. Reviews prior to WoWs release comparing it to EverQuest II didn't exactly instil a lot of hope. WoW was the game for idiots, while EQII was praised as the hardcore achievers game. Everyone admired how smooth and flawless WoW was but it was predicted to fail by some, and miserably so after six months. Any idiot could make it to 60 in six months, then what would they do? The prophecy was that there'd be a mass exodus leaving vacant empty servers as the flighty casuals moved onto the next big pretty. And somehow six months, then a year came and went with the subscription numbers going only upwards. WoWs so popular that newspaper cartoon strips mentioned it regularly, it's been the main theme of several television shows, and even had a related question on Jeopardy. WoW is the 800 pound gorilla of the MMO world. Simply said, WoW offers something to three of the largest groups in MMOs. The achievers have their endless dungeon and raid runs to collect their armor sets and baubles. The player versus player crowd has world set aside for them as well as battlegrounds. And the casual players have more content than they could ever hope to accomplish in a run to 60 with just one character. And all of it is seamlessly integrated together, smoothly working and mostly flaw free to the cast majority of users. Role-players weren't thrown too many bones in WoW. With no houses, no non-combat classes, and little attention paid to anything besides killing critters and each other, there's just much to mention for the role-player crowd. Probably the most important group to be pulled in were the casual players. The system of interlocking quests that lead new players from the safety of their starting areas then gradually added more complexity as the character, and the player, matured made the world very easy to understand and access. By comparison Star Wars Galaxies initially simply dumped players into its world with almost no explanation of what to do. While this method was great for experienced MMO players it alienated many of the new customers, they simply had no idea what to do, what their goal was, and whether there really was a game involved. WoW guided the player along an invisible set of rails, bread-crumbing them from one area to the next so that they were always in an area where the difficultly matched what the player could handle. The goals may have been simplistic but millions of new players understood them and enjoyed the prospect of doing them with new found friends. But WoW also offered something that was solely lacking in the MMOs before it, you could play alone and in short session even near the end of the game. All the games mentioned in the first paragraph lost me the moment I couldn't defeat monsters my own level. The moment I was forced to group I lost interest. I painfully remember nights where I spent more time looking for a party than adventuring. And while this may seem like a backwards goal of a game meant to be played with groups of people it's the one element that is most important. Being able to accomplish just small goals on busy days, like work nights, means that I stay in the game. And by keeping me in the game it opened opportunities to meet people that I wouldn't have if I'd gotten frustrated and quit, like those other games. Allowing me to play solo exposed me to more chances to meet other players that I might want to go crawl through dungeons with, on the weekends for example when I have more time. But I'd have never gotten there if WoW had followed the old model. By letting players be selfish, and solo inside a multiplayer game, they've kept me as a loyal customer that now looks forward to my weekend jaunts when I've got a couple of hours to hang out with friends. Call it dumbed down, simple, or whatever you want, me and six million others will happily be spending our time in a game aimed at expanding the MMO market.
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After two years of "casual" play, what’s your level?
And what is your definition of casual?
This is rich.. just 2 days after WoW erroneously bans users who are using Linux/CEdega you come out with this warm fuzzy about WoW.
I wonder who's lining your pockets??
From MMORPG News
Linux users getting banned from WoW?
Posted Nov 15, 2006 at 09:33PM by Victor B.
Listed in: World of Warcraft, News
Tags: Blizzard, Linux, Cedega, TransGaming This does not bode well for Linux gamers, and it's a weird coincidence that we hear about this a few days after announcing Wine on the site. It seems that Linux-using World of Warcraft players are getting banned left and right.
Current speculation among the members of the WoW community, Linux and non-Linux alike, is an attempt to ban users of third party software who use said software to cheat the game. Unfortunately, users of Cedega, a Windows programs portability app for Linux, has been picked up as a cheating application by Blizzard, leading to the closing of many accounts of Linux users.
Discussion has been ongoing in the forum of TransGaming, Cedega's developer. Currently, Transgaming is working with Blizzard's engineers to resolve the problem and hopefully get the unjustly banned accounts back into a state of gaming readiness. Till then, however, all we can do is wait for TransGaming and Blizzard to do something about it.
I got bored of WoW after 2 weeks ~_~ Hiding grind with quests isn't a good idea imo.
Wow was fun while it lasted but when you have done as good as everything possible, with only the end game instances left (cleared most of them along with couple of naxx bosses) you just run into a boring rince and repeat.
I think wow is first hitting the "boring" sign now, as expansion is closing in, which might be overhyped, people expecting things to renew thier love but wow can no longer give what i want, because for a year i was nothing more than a raidslave, seing it as the only progression left, there are no skill point system or hard to hit lvl, which i somehow didn't fond before but now i see the reason.
When you realize that the items you gather might make you think you got stronger it's only marginal, many if not most are stuck in it, with all the addons it's no wonder that 30 bonus overall dps could make you thrill for some time.
Many people play just because thier friends does and in their guilds. I remember when i started wow, it would have nothing to do with some pranky huge guild just me and friends having fun for many months it was like that but then people started venturing into MC, as interesting it all was it was the beginning of the end. Now i'm sorta looking for a mmo that grants progression without having the game controle when you have to play instead of you just playing when you feel like it.
I am all in all looking for a game where you do not achieve max lvl within few weeks but a game with constant progression, a game where it's not the 40-man dungeon or monster that decides "you're progressing for an item" but instead you can go into an instance 8 months after and be there because you still are far from max lvl but there's things to be found there and most importantly of all, you will be there with close friends of 3 or 5. What game can give that sort of feeling? the ability to solo throughout, yet still instancefun with friends for glory, xp, and treasure, with a spice of action and bloody mess?
Age of Conan or 2Moons? Only time will tell but one thing is for sure, WoW seems dead to me and looks like just another heavy guild raiding game, as EQI-II looked like, now.
In short: Wow still casual? don't make me laugh, it's just how good they can keep that thought of denial alive, which makes people continue to play. As soon you hit lvl 60 it all changes, 1-59 is the only casual solo play.
Regards- a player, who played wow from open beta and throughout retail till a couple months ago.
The early days of WoW were definately fun for me but as time went on the game slowly began to get on my nerves. I do not like having to get together with 20 - 40 other people just to play boring content for gear you may or may not be able to get. Being a shadow priest w/ only the option to pve for healing gear, or pvp endlessly for pvp gear did not help my situation. WoW went down the wrong path when the game started to be about gear instead of fun. Once you get the gear, then what? Wait for the next patch or expansion for more gear? Instanced pvp and the honor system killed the game even more. The only reason I wanted gear was to do World pvp, not instanced. Sucks for those of us who grinded for the pvp gear and now want to have fun with said gear but you've already played the hell out of all the battlegrounds. I highly doubt the expansion will bring enough to World of Warcraft to get me back into the game. There are many good titles coming soon that wont be based on gear but hopefully rather, skill..
Playing WoW 2 years casually would destroy any normal person. But if you are satisfied with this kind of game more power to you. You are easy to please. Not only is the combat system way too easy but you'll only be killed by someone who has spent that much longer getting gear(aka a non-casual player, or a shadow priest because they can kill anyone). AND If you aren't getting gear for pvp then what else could it possibly be for? Sitting in town looking at your character? I personally cannot derive any pleasure or satisfaction out of that.
I wish you luck, as a casual player it just must be taking you that much longer to realize you are doing this for nothing. Former Shadow Priest of Gorgonnash,
-Xelroh
The final straw for me was the intentional disabling of alot of addons in patch 1.10 (including many that worked unmodified for over a year). All the addons did was implement things that should have been in the main game (ex. making sure pet will always save enough energy to use growl every 5 seconds) or remove annoyances that were easily achieved manually but shouldn't have been required (ex. feeding pet every time happiness dropped) or just making the game more enjoyable (ex. keeping buffs up on yourself (my Priest had 5 different buffs with 5 different durations ranging from 3 min to 30 min (4 were 15 min or less))). Did some of the addons give some advantages? Sure but that's really secondary to providing fun and irrelevant except in PvP (so just disable them in PvP).
At this point, I'm playing EVE and CoH/CoV and waiting to find out more about Vanguard, LotR, and Warhammer.
Through all of my years of gaming... Taple Topping... Mudding... MMORPG'ing... I've always been aware and easily accepted the fact that there are different strokes for different folks, but this i can not wrap my head around.
I tried it. I kept on playing because I thought there must be something I was missing. i played for a couple months. I just never "got it".
I didn't even enjoy the early levels. I just kept going hoping that "6 million" people were right and I would eventually "get it".
There are games out right now that i find to be a ton of fun, so i know it's not just me getting old and cranky ;)
This one blew right over my head, I guess ;)
That's fine with me. I now understand that by not playing this, I am missing nothing.
though i dont get the true meaning of another editorial, another "praise wow"-thingy. I mean...it was fun, it was tempting and my rl-buddies had fun with it too. But i honestly have to say that, if a so called casual player is looking forward in playing wow on and on and on...., then i´m kinda worried about the future of mmo´s. because of the faxt that for those who want more than the let´s say casual content, they just get off board and i think that the community will suffer for lshort or long from those kind of mmo´s. Ok they might be the best choice for Casuals, but what about those who want to get really in to a game instead of fishing 6 motnhs or goin to raid over and over again.
WoW is just leading the path to a future in mmo´s i really don´t want to see.
with best regards...Oronwe
Call things like they are. WoW is a Dumbed down mmog. I too read the doom and gloomsayers about how WoW was never going to survive. All I can say is, I thank the gods that WoW does survive, if only because it keeps a majority of the immature brats in one location, one I will never set foot in again.
One of the admittedly many reasons that WoW is so popular is NOT that it answers everyone's prayer, as that editorial believes. The game does NOT fulfill the wishes of 3 out of 4 of the major groups who play. Rather, it is one of the only games currently out there that has anything available.
-Everquest 1 is an old game, and spending 7 years in one online world, especially one that is so antiquated in terms of graphics in much of its content, is beyond the ability of many many gamers. I loved EQ1 for 5 years. I would try most newly released games for the free month that accompanied purchase, only to return to EQ1 along with the rest of my guildies very quickly. That is, until EQ2 and WoW were released, when my guild disintegrated. I did not have the willpower to start over again with a new guild in the same world, so I tried unsuccessfully to find a new game. I really should have just stayed with EQ1, it would have been a lot more satisfying for me.
-Everquest 2 is a pathetic excuse for a game. It was hyped to an amazing degree by SOE, and had many people drooling at the mouths, particularly those who were decidedly unhappy with WoW's cartoonish graphics. However, a game that must reinvent itself every few months due to horrid class/content imbalance will have a very hard time maintaining customers. SoE devs have pushed through 2 MASSIVE combat revamps in 2 years, the 2nd coming out with the new expansion, not to mention countless retooling, breaking and rebreaking of individual classes. (thinking assassins up through patch 13 and DoF. Ranger archery DPS and poison stacking issues. Endless caster nerfs and fixes. IT took 18 months + to include PVP content. The raiding in EQ2 is a joke. A large number of raids are retooled every few weeks, making it so that a force not only needs to repeat the llearning process regarding strategies, (not necessarily a bad thing actually) but end up with loot that is decidedly poor compared to the effort to beat the mob. Not to mention the fact that a caster wears almost the same gear in terms of looks, for a vast majority of the levels. My level 50 assassin with endgame loot looked little different from level 30ish assassins with a few differences.
-SWG Another pathetic excuse for a game. It really requires an amazing lack of ability to take one of the most amazing IPs in existence today, with a rich history and lore and culture preestablished, and turn it into the drivel that is/was SWG. Many games devote a large amount of time in creating a world and then creating creatures and races to inhabit it, as well as history and lore of said world/universe. With SWG, a large portion of that was already done. SWG also saw multiple revamps, indeed, the game was almost entirely changed even, resulting in one asking oneself when patching, "what kind of c*ap am I gonig to find this time? What will my class description be?"
-DAoC Limited content and a PVP bent, making it uninteresting to a large amount of the population of mmogs. Many who DO PVP don't wish to do it 100% of the time, but rather sporadically.
-DDO Lots of potential that again, a company has failed to deliver on. Another IP that had a precreated world with preexisting classes and races. Unfortunately, this one plays more like an offline game with the same repetitive dungeons that change almost not at all. I am sorry, but if you want me to go through the same dungeon 3x on 3 different difficulty settings, you really need to make sure that the map and mobs change. As it is, doing a dungeon now means that everyone just splits up and runs to the various required spots in order to finish asap. I am not sure how long it took this game to be developed, but I would like to know what the devs spent that time on....
-CoH/CoV Though reasonably well done, it is limited to a smaller fanbase of those wanting to be in a world of superheroes. Not to mention that the missions are ridiculously repetitive, and there is almost nothing to do at max level besides kill ArchVillains, which loses its luster very quickly. Raiding is virtually nonexistant. Also, the game is anti-items, resulting in not a single lootable item from mobs that one can add to outfit or weapons. Besides the costume quests one gets every few levels, one looks the same, whether one is level 3 or level 50.
Now we come to WoW, inarguably one of the easiest and most basic mmogs on the market today. While I am a firm supporter in 'different strokes for different folks' I find it a sad state of affairs that this game is so popular. I think it says more about the gaming market than it does about the game itself. The average age of gamers in general is apparently in the upper 20s these days, yet in WoW, the big kahuna of games, that average age appears to be greatly inferior, lower by about 10-15 years.
Leveling- It is relatively easy to take a toon of any class from 1-60 in 1-2 months. A vast majority of this time is spent soloing. While I support solo-conducive games, I feel that it soloing should be a manner in which one is able to still advance when UNABLE to find a group. Soloing should be the exception, not the rule. Otherwise, one might as well play FFX 12 or some other game offline.
Raiding: Raiding is a joke, pure and simple. Rather, it is not a joke, but an activity that brought tears to my eyes. Take a game that encourages soloing for 60 levels, then convinves you to raid, and you have disaster on your hands. Players have spent 60 levels developing their skills in the solo capacity. Priests go Shadow in order to DPS. Warriors go offensive for DPS. Druids go Feral so they can do everything. Then, take these same people, with 60 levels of bad habits (see 100% DPS based) ingrained in them, and try to tell them they need to fulfill the roles for which their classes were intended.
Priest/Druid "What do you mean you want me to heal! Do you know how much dmg I can do!!!"
Warrior: "What do you mean you want me to tank that boss, I won't be able to be on the top of the DPS chart then!!!"
etc. etc.
A raid is a group of people, willing to subjugate their own interests, to further the objectives of the group. Raids require Healers, tanks, buffers AND DPS. Not ONLY DPS. Try telling many WoW raiders that though. With no tank, the mob will just chew through the raid force. With no healers, the tank will die and the same wipe will occur etc.
PVP: Skill has little to do with one's success here. Rather, one's PVP ranking is directly linked to the level of gear. Add to that the endless grinding it takes to max faction with a zone's population. Then on top of all that, you add the endless ranting and raving and idiocy exhibited by so many WoW players. That is supposed to be fun? I beg to differ. I would rather just take a hammer and bang nails into my head. more fun really.
Tradeskilling: Useless in this game. One can find better gear with half the effort adventuring, not to mention spending less in the AH on an item than it would cost to level up the skill to make said item.
Again, I believe WoW to be THE MOST DUMBED DOWN GAME on the market today. I sincerely hope WoW survives for many years to come, and that it will keep drawing the same type of player it currently does. The more that go towards WoW, the fewer I have to deal with in whatever game I will be playing.
thank you. this is EXACTLY what i am talking about. WoW rocks and so will WoW BC expansion. Hold on oldies, your time is comming. Don't listen to as you said "amutre experts" they just hate WoW becuase so many others love it, and it is the best MMO out there.
-WoW BC will have, 70 caps, flying mounts, 100+ NEW QUESTS!, new armor, items, MINIGAMES!(the only game that has this is ----------), new battle feilds, new doungons and races, and much much more
-WoW hit 7.5 million players.
Wow is Wow.. Love it or - leave it.
I myself am not a teenager... (oh to be one once more.. On second thought cancel that thought).. Lol!
Seriously, I still play Wow and probably will, regardless of what others say, or when Blizzard gets a hair up their arse and does stupid things at times.
The only other game that possibly peaks my interest to pull me away from WoW.. is the upcoming Vanguard. Who knows.. may keep both on my machine.
Thats my 2cp's for the day anyway.
"By letting players be selfish, and solo inside a multiplayer game, they've kept me as a loyal customer that now looks forward to my weekend jaunts when I've got a couple of hours to hang out with friends. "
This needs to be quoted EVERY single time some ignorant dolt asks on any MMORPG forum why would someone solo play in a massive multiplayer game.
There have been many other answers but an explaination this clear and concise should be understood even by the clueless type who constantly ask that.
It's amusing seeing all these posts ragging on WoW. Now I have my problems with the game. I canceled when it looked like they were doing nothing but raid-content and only recently returned to see this 'fixed' PvP they claim to be introducing. I'm likely going to play WAR when it comes out, but in spite of all of this I don't ignore reality, I don't ignore the one thing most of the posters in this thread would never admit because it's true:
WoW is a SUCCESS.
A REAL success. Something so many veteran MMORPG players hate facing is that in the rest of the gaming world a real success when a game is played by millions, not thousands.
WoW has brought MMORPGs into the real gaming world. A world where the subscription numbers of previous MMORPGs like UO and EQ won't cut it anymore.
Maybe that means introducing game mechanics that veteran MMORPG players think are too 'simple'. They don't like that because maybe that means those 'challenging' game mechanics from previous MMORPGs weren't worth anything afterall. Maybe those game mechanics weren't 'challengning', they were just bad, unplayable excuses of gameplay that people swallowed as 'challenging'.
It's time for MMORPGs to evolve. It's the future and for better or worse, WoW was the game that has finally shown the way.
And you can't stop the future, you just have to deal with it.
In the world of Beers, Budweiser is a huge success. It's served in more countries than any other beer. Why is it so successful? Because it appeals to the "General Public". But ask a Beer connoisseur, like myself, and you'll hear that it's simply a "Bio Waste product". The true Beer drinkers prefer beers like Samuel Adams and Guinness.
Bottomline...WoW may be a financial success but that doesnt mean it's a great game. Just as high budget Hollywood movies arent necessarily better than Indie films just because they net more money.
wow still is the best mmo out there hands down in overall, sorry but all the other mmo's just suck too much... they are sooo alike, man they even use the same engines lol...
a casual player is not a player that plays for leveling ok? its a player that sets a goal and gets to it at his pace, so you are all wrong saying that you need to level to be casual...
raiding is the best way to gear ur char to the max... once you REALLT, TRULLY gear ur char to the max u WILL see a diference... all you guys that claim to have done it all its all BS, cause if you did you woulndt have quit... its too much fun seing how others fall at ur feet in pvp or gawk at you when ur messing arroung in IF etc... So dont give me that crap that you did it al LOL... you probably just had like some tier 1 and a couple of tier 2 lol...
the expansion IS all its hyped up, im in BETA
so to all you wow haters/failers please post somewhere else, dont try to bring the rest of us millions (way more than any other game) subscribers down, it aint gona work...
Hagrin
Countless hours instancing for weeks and weeks IS NOT A SHORT SESSION.
Failed at WoW? How can you fail at WoW? It's the easiest game out there. You can get to lvl 60 in like...one month. I played it for over 2 years. I have a lvl 60 Shaman, lvl 60 Warrior, lvl 60 Mage, and a lvl 60 Priest on the Khaz Modan server.
Another reason it's so easy is that there's no penalty for dying. No one cares if they die. Especially in PvP. When you die you just pop right back up. Sure theres a small wear and tear to your equipment but that's it. This game has no challenge. The 2 years I played it was just touch and go. I bounced back and forth between WoW and various other mmo's.
It's not a bad game. It's just not a great game either.
Heh, I couldn't have said it better, Steve Wilson must really like putting as little effort into things as possible. I too share your sentiments about WoW keeping a specific type of person away from other games. Simply put WoW the size it is , is NOT good for the MMORPG Genre because it is beginning to stifle the entire genre, for WoW to improve (and I beleive Blizzard can make some worthwhile improvements) It needs competition that will make Vivendi/Blizzard management feel threatened. If not they will keep offering the same poor customer service and poor attention to what the playerbase needs instead of the the Blizzard designers who seem to live in Ivory Towers.
So who is in the lead on this site for the most hated MMO?
Finaly a good editorial and right on the spot, i can on laugh at people reactions that state the played for a year or even 2 years and they claim the game sucks, i mean how dumb can you be to be able to play a game for more then a year and say the game is stupid. Wow isn't my 1st MMO but it is my 1st MMO i made it to lvl cap 60, you may say oh thats easy and sonme may say that can be done in a month but to be honost people that say that are for me people that arn't real gamers as real gamers explore the world, make friends do not neccecary follow the gamepath but have their own fantasy on how to behave in the world, If i go out for some hunting i go out for some hunting and i do not go out for the grind, that word doesn't even excist for me really, same thing for the word Twink, unless it means being jalouse at a low lvl for his gear, i mean comm'n people screaming on RPG realms that some are twinks, people like that should leave the game cause twinks should be seen as family members as i see my character as one famlily meeting other family's, i do agree that at some point its hard to know if the so called twink is a person that worked very hard with a high lvl to gain some gold to spend on his lower lvl char. or if it is some goldbuying idiot , in that way i think the biggest bug in WOW is goldsellers/goldsellingsites/goldellingspammers. And something i also find wierd is people say that they find WOW boring, again i would ask them who is holding the 9mm against your head to force you to play??, for me its the other way around when i feel borred i going to play WOW cause i just can not get borred in it, and may i feel that one of my family members isn't worth playing at that moment i got more members in the famliy(Other character) to choose from or simply yet leave the realm and get back into the real world.
If you reach the point of bordem in a game you know that that game has taken full control over your real life else why would you hop into a game that is boring. Think about this the next time anyone say's he's boring in a game !! Junky's will say the same thing about drugs "do not use it cause it is bad" but they contineu using drugs
And now my qoute,
Bit dumb to make a statement for a game that surpassed 6 mill. subs
SWG could have been the king of them all untill they made into a Counterstrike online game for Jedi's, true it needed somewhat of more of a storyline especialy knowing the rich history from the movies the game had, but being able to creat city's, play rpg with non combat classes, pickup any of the 16 classes wich really gave you the feel of being in the SW world, and that's what SWG really was , it was more a world you could do almost everything possible in then it was a game, yes it had lots of bugs to bad they kept developing new stuff instead of fixing bugs first.
lots of players stay at WoW. Because there is no other MMORPG available. No serious MMORPG.
Blizzard can be happy about that fact. Let's wait and see at the end of next year.
I've been playing WoW casually since release. I have two lvl 60's a lvl 46, and several characters under lvl 30. My highest teir raiding has been a couple times into MC with one character, the other 60 isn't even keyed there.
Heck I went into Scholomance for the first time (with any character) three days ago, with one other person, and we soloed some of the entry and found out that you get 5 faction with Argent Dawn per kill there, even when your faction is too high to get it from outdoor kills :) It's still too slow for faction grinding though, without a full group.
If you are a casual gamer and you can't raid, then do faction work. Is your Timbermaw faction exalted? What about your Booty Bay faction? Bloodsail pirates Faction? Some factions have some very nice things available - some of the Timbermaw equipment is very nice, even if it's not T3 raiding gear. A casual pvper can eventually get access to some very nice factional equipment without ever setting foot into a raid instance.
Do I think WoW is perfect? No, definitely not. Does it have most of it's bases covered? Yes. More different styles of play actually work in WoW than in any other mmo I have played, and I've played a LOT of MMO's over the years.
Finaly a good editorial and right on the spot, i can on laugh at people reactions that state the played for a year or even 2 years and they claim the game sucks, i mean how dumb can you be to be able to play a game for more then a year and say the game is stupid. Wow isn't my 1st MMO but it is my 1st MMO i made it to lvl cap 60, you may say oh thats easy and sonme may say that can be done in a month but to be honost people that say that are for me people that arn't real gamers as real gamers explore the world, make friends do not neccecary follow the gamepath but have their own fantasy on how to behave in the world, If i go out for some hunting i go out for some hunting and i do not go out for the grind, that word doesn't even excist for me really, same thing for the word Twink, unless it means being jalouse at a low lvl for his gear, i mean comm'n people screaming on RPG realms that some are twinks, people like that should leave the game cause twinks should be seen as family members as i see my character as one famlily meeting other family's, i do agree that at some point its hard to know if the so called twink is a person that worked very hard with a high lvl to gain some gold to spend on his lower lvl char. or if it is some goldbuying idiot , in that way i think the biggest bug in WOW is goldsellers/goldsellingsites/goldellingspammers. And something i also find wierd is people say that they find WOW boring, again i would ask them who is holding the 9mm against your head to force you to play??, for me its the other way around when i feel borred i going to play WOW cause i just can not get borred in it, and may i feel that one of my family members isn't worth playing at that moment i got more members in the famliy(Other character) to choose from or simply yet leave the realm and get back into the real world.
If you reach the point of bordem in a game you know that that game has taken full control over your real life else why would you hop into a game that is boring. Think about this the next time anyone say's he's boring in a game !! Junky's will say the same thing about drugs "do not use it cause it is bad" but they contineu using drugs
And now my qoute,
Bit dumb to make a statement for a game that surpassed 6 mill. subs
SWG could have been the king of them all untill they made into a Counterstrike online game for Jedi's, true it needed somewhat of more of a storyline especialy knowing the rich history from the movies the game had, but being able to creat city's, play rpg with non combat classes, pickup any of the 16 classes wich really gave you the feel of being in the SW world, and that's what SWG really was , it was more a world you could do almost everything possible in then it was a game, yes it had lots of bugs to bad they kept developing new stuff instead of fixing bugs first.
yup this nowhere close the amount of heroin addicts., but not all drug addicts use heroin, only 6 million are meth freaks, 10 mill are crack heads, .......
As much as I probably agreed with him while I was still active in WoW, I got sucked into the viscous raid circle - and that is nothing you can call casual (be there at exactly 8 pm or you can't join, then we will be there for 5 hours and you can not get any loot since you don't have dkp....)
and the looking for group thing is in wow just as problematic if you want to advance your character/quests.
e.g.
LFG to Mauraudon - am Warlock.
sorry, we don't want warlock, we need priest, warrior, pally, druid. bye
or
LFG to DME - am class XXXX
silence
silence
one person whispers
wait 20 minutes, repeat LFG message on all channels, get hammered for spamming...
30 minutes, 2 people only, great, there goes my evening of fun playing.....
also, if you don't have tons of rl friends or are a hardcore rpg-er, i don't see what you can do there after 2 years??? sure, swg is boring as hell, but with housing and the crafting system, you have a reason to hang out (especially alone, if that is what you want).
1) Casual....this means that you log in once in a while, a few times a week. You play with some friends, you go exploring. You screw around near the bank, and have fun most of the time.
2) Mid-level: You can screw around and try on dresses and be silly, but you can easily jump into a dungeon and you have a few pieces of fancy armor. Both one and two do not play these games JUST to get the best stuff, they play to have fun, to be social, and to sometimes get obsessed.
3) Nuts: This type is the guy that has his full sets of nice armor, the uber sword, and the guy that constantly yells at the rest of the players in the BG that they are all "a bunch of f'in noobs" Don't get me wrong, I have met tons of these guys that are really cool people, that are very friendly and very forgiving to those of us that are there to have fun and not just to collect. My own brother has 7 lvl 60's now, but he still can sit down and goof off with me and my wife in the AH.
You know what type you are. And the point made by the poster above is valid: whay make fun of a game and talk about how horrible it was after you played it for a year? What happens to players like that is that they rush and rush till the end and then grit thier teeth in frustration when the entire group they are in is full of players like them.
And please do not compare most MMO's to WoW. It works well, feels nice, flows well, has a fun story, and nice controls. There is a reason that a lot of MMO's are taking cues from WoW now. There are only a few real good games out there, like Eve, but that number can be counted on one hand. I have played around 40 games, was paying for 6 at one time, and WoW is one of the best.
If you are mad because you spend all night trying to get a group, then I say to you that WoW is about the easiest game to find groups in, and will only get easier. The players that are affected the most by the lack of a good group are those guys that only want to raid and raid and raid, so that they can get that super cool piece of armor. Try finding a group in FFXI, or in EQ2...you'll see.
dear madam, wow was made for you.
GBTW is something you see in every non-wow game/forum around. that acronym was created for a reason.
It may well be closer to a realistic definition of casual than is used by 95% of people on the WoW forums. I get the impression he logs in for an hour or two maybe a couple times per week.
A lot of the people that call themselves casual are actually not casual at all, they are non-raiders. They are people that play regularly but only solo or in up to 5 man groups. These people have a lack of content after a couple months at 60.
WoW does a great job in general keeping hardcore raiders, pvp types, and true casuals happy. It is the non-raiding players that are on 10+ hours per week that have the biggest problems.
WoW is a well polished game with a seamless world and tons of stuff to do, not to mention a big community to boot. The community ranges from your selfish immature brat to the mature and helpfull player. If you can't find a guild to suit you in this game, then you aren't looking hard enough. So why is it this game doesn't appeal to me beyond that?
Well it is simple. If I wanted to play solo, I would pick up a single player RPG. MMO's are made to be played in groups. They always advertised it as such on the back of the box. At least they did in my DAoC days. If I am so pressed by time, where I can't group in an MMO that night, wouldn't my time be better served playing a single player RPG that night and play the MMO later when I do have the time? The quests are not that good and are MMO quality quests, which means they are fetch this and that or deliver this or that missions. Why would a person want to solo those when they could go on a single player Epic quest on a offline game?
If the quests were fun, then doing quests all the way to 60 would be cool. I am the type of person who would rather group up and go grind for an hour or so. It is more fun to me to be out there with a group of people just killing stuff. That is what I loved about DAoC and that is what got me hooked to MMORPG's 4 years ago. Now the market has shifted and soloing is the preffered method, forcing people like me out the back door.
I believe that people who complain about not being able to find a group are not trying hard enough. If you are playing a popular game and are just grinding, and grouping is the best xp, then you will always find somebody to group with. I never had trouble grouping when DAoC first came out. All classes must be viable, grouping must yeild faster xp, and there must be a healthy sized population for grouping to work. But when you have those things, it is more fun than running a Fed Ex mission by yourself. Intermingle some Epic sized and quality quests in your game here and there and you've got yourself a great MMO in my opinion.
I play WoW now, because every other decent game out there has a very small community, and most games out there have caught the soloers plague. A small community mixed with people who prefer to solo is a bad game when you want to group. So I play WoW where it is easy to find other RPers, good guilds who conduct RPing events and at least I can group for all the instance content out there.
I think WoW is very unique in what it has brought to the mmo field and feel that, as someone who likes to RP, it offers a nice place to be. RP is a dying thing for gamers like me though. Wish had hope, Horizons I once believed could have taken it all the way...but both are finished.
My .02
I like the game, only play it for half an hour - 2 hours a day.
6 million subscribers ^_^
The editorial seems a bit out of place. Many of what was said was true several months ago, but slowly WoW is becoming World of Raidcraft. Blizzard seems to be listening to the vocal minority and adding more raiding/grinding content as The Fun Thing To Do at Sixty.
With the AQ War patch they added "casual" quests so people who couldn't (or wouldn't) raid could upgrade their blue dungeon set armors. The quest line was a joke as forking up 100's of gold and getting crafting items from every profession is hardly something a casual player would be able to do. After forking up 100g, an arcanite converter, eternal essence and uh something else (forget offhand) all you have to show for it is ... a bracer?? Not casual at all Mr Blizzard Dev.
Not to mention I am confident that much of the 7+ million subscribers aren't players but the Gold Farmers Inc. This website, plus countless others, have buy WoW gold ads so there must be a large number of "employees" supplying said gold. I've seen many news reports, online and on TV, that show workers sitting around an "office" but they aren't working on spreadsheets they are playing WoW for gold farming.
Horde paladins and Alliance shamans was also a lazy way of creating a "new" class in the expansion without having to design one. They now made the differences between the two factions cosmetic.
Most of the various types of gameplays he says this WoW caters to are hardly viable and laughable when compared to this games predicessors. Anyone who is playing for PvP has obvioudly never played a serious PvP MMO at any length ala DAOC. The raiding is a serious badly conceived gimmicky bosses which has more to do with know the bosses 47 little tricks and finding out the 1 way the devs left open to win the encounter. The Burning Crusade does absolutely nothing to remedy the over instancing PvP, which continues to suck what remaining life there is on the old overworld, nor does it remeedy the fact the games instances / raids lose their luster rather quickly when you are running the same one 2 times a week for 34 weeks trying to get that special item or enough rep grounded out.
I've tried lineage in the past, whether or not it has changed for the better is not of knowing but there are indeed things in wow i want to see in other mmorpgs and that's the vast content, i've tried games that were alot more amazing in action and decent pace but lacked the content wow has.
I am prolly never gonna find my game but if the mmorpg producers take some of the good things from wow and make it more complex along with adding more controle around it they might very well succed, they might not get as many subs as wow, since it wouldn't be as easy ect. but it would atleast serve as a nice game towards the right circle.
Wow made you feel a sorta constant progress, untill you hit 60, if another game can keep it going like that´, with a lvl cap of 150 or whatever which takes ages to get but yet make people feel constant progress in other forms than just exp and items, then we are on the right step. In other words there needs to be some sort of constant progress through items being swapped for better and "smoother looking" along with lvl'in and new abilities or combos and alike, at last there needs to be a third where wow has tradeskills ect. but it also ended at almost same pace as lvl 60. Don't forget a nice amount of content with places that doesn't look like the other one, with a story of it's own, along with thier villains and demons alike, and ofc. an instance where you can venture for the unknowing with your friends with hectic battles and fast paced, yet long fights, with it's own tale to tell. I am asking for the impossible, i know.
level - item - skillpoint/tradeskills/finetuning, as soon one drops off the game goes down hill.
But in the end, it doesn't matter how cool your blazer and jeans where last year, it won't be as fancy as it was, there always have to be some changes that makes it feel new and fresh.
WoW as simple it was, it was solid, it had peaks, and a little new but i was only in love with the game when it was 1-60 along with the valor and bluegear days, the rest was just wowcrack.
Age of Conan and 2Moons, conan got it's great old myth and legends with it's combat system of nice realtime combat and good load of controle, not to forget it's bloody and brutal world it is. 2moons is as bloody and brutal as Age of conan with it's own special and fast combat system with cutting and decapitating finishers, not to forget it implementing instance system. Their combat only is more complex and advanced than wow, makes them just that much interesting... i always hated seing how a 3.7 speed weapon could look so awful stupid and boring. Which goes over to another game that had a nice amount of action and decent pace of even 2hander weapons, RyL1, it just lacked content, such a shame cause it had potential.
Everyone should think of all the games that have released recently. How many of them actually work and/or have decent content and little bugs? Not many. For example dark and light, mourning, archlord, and even non MMOs are infested with bugs like Neverwinter Nights 2 or The Guild 2.
I got this one game called Stronghold 2 that was simply unplayable. I like WoW and Blizzard because every game ive gotten from them has worked. Not to mention they always have great online with battle.net. Most games have about 1 or 2 games max on their game list a month after release.
I predict the next great MMO will be Blizzard made and im not even a fanboy. Thats just the pattern I see things going in these days. Devs need to start making a solid game without problems before they start adding the fluff on their games. Give me a game that works! Is that really so much to ask for?
Let me add that I hate when devs say: We will add this feature after release. Which has always been a load of bullsh*t. Either add it in before release or dont put the feature up. The question I want to start seeing in a FAQ is "Does this game work and have solid content?"
So where are those heros classes we were promised would be in right after launch? It's a shame, if they actually stopped trying to sweep their promises under the rug hoping we'd forget about them, the game might have turned out to have a lot more depth and options for advancement.
EQ was a fantastic game that suffered from a change of company and of game ideas. WoW is simply a pretty filler till a really good game is released.
"three days with Ultima Online"OMG dont have what to say , i am shure that most of the old players will agree that you was best gameplay ever if you look more deeper!!
So what next, hating "Vanguard" will be the new cool thing to do?
WoW is the best at what it's doing atm. Don't know how things will go from here, but for now ppl can say what they want about it, it's still a big success. The only game that I play and see as something different is EVE, but it has a certain class of players it aims for. Beside that as was said there is no game that can challenge WoW now.
For the ones that "thank WoW for keeping these kind of players out of their game", STOP THINKING YOUR SO SMART AND WOW IS FOR IDIOTS. Think your the kiddies that think of themselves as UBER.
And for the ones that say a player won't respec when he hits 60, because he wants to DPS altho he has another meaning, it means you haven't played the game for more then an year.
I max ranked a char, but am not too much into PvP so won't enter that topic. I'd rather raid. I want my char to get better abd better gear so I like the way it looks.
I am also awaiting new titles, but for now WoW is the best. If u don't like it just don't play it, but don't think of yourself as so much better or so special for now playing/liking it.
Also, it's only casual until you get to the end. The PvP in the beginning is pointless because of all the twinks so all you can do is "casually" grind. When you get to the end, the only thing to do is PvP or do raids. And these raids are freaking stupid, spend 5 hours trying to get into a group, another 5 hours in the PuG trying to get gear (which will probably not drop or someone else will get it) so that you can do another raid to get some more gear to just keep climbing up the endless gearchain. There is no use for this gear, except to help get new gear! There is no point to World of Warcraft but to do the same super long (noncasual!!) endgame raids or PvP.
World of Warcraft is the game for idiots, it was in the beginning and it is now. It's horrible to grind because it's so boring grinding by yourself (SWG had the best grinding system pre-NGE) and end-game just sucks period.
The only reason that so many people have played it for so long, is because there's nothing better out. All the other great games like EQ and AC got old and no good games have come out since then except for this piece of crap. I, for one, can't wait til the day WoW becomes "old news" and is overthrown by a better game.
I clicked your "User Info" by mistake and couldn't help noticing that one of the games you have played and will play is WoW. And since the game is for idiots as u seem to think....you can come to the conclusion yourself.
Absolutely rediculous. A lot of players like WoW's pvp more then Dark Age of Camelot's. Its diffrent PVP, DAOC is not the holy grail of pvp.
Example of DAOC pvp:
DAOC PVP
Its VERY slow paced
WoW's PVP
Fast paces, a lot more action happens.
For me, its an easy choice.
I have to disagree with the above poster, DAoC pvp is not slow paced (relic raid anyone?) and is actually meaningful.
Think of it this way, if Horde wins every AV for a month does that actually DO anything to benefit the horde? To the guy playing off in Stonetalon what you do in AV has no effect on him.
DAoC you take a relic from the opposing realm, you just increased your own damage for every single player of your realm. The keeps aren't instanced, so you can't be sure there are "just" 40 opponents. Plus I found that a castle siege was just hella fun.
Not to mention guilds could claim keeps and upgrade them. So not only would a frontier keep have your guild's banner flying the ramparts, but you could have better equipped guards and stronger doors.
So yeah, I think DAoC version of pvp is a tad better than WoW's lackluster attempt.
I'm rambling... WoW isn't perfect though. Why in the world did WoW set up armor the way that they did??? why even allow a rogue to wear cloth, they never will. Why does a priest have to wear cloth? They're just going to stand there casting heals, there's no need for light amor!
I also agree that WoW has no role-playing. This doesn't anger me, as I'm not a very good RPer anyway, but I do play on those servers. Why? maturity. It's still not perfect, but hey...
And WoW does get old. I feel sorry for those looking for groups to scholo or strat. Sometimes I feel like I slipped by just in time as everyone else was running these dungeons, cuz sometimes people seem to be waiting forever to go there. But in contrast, now that my 60 (that's right, 2 years of playing and I only cared to get 1 char to 60, but I do have over a dozen alts of all lvls) has been at end-game for some time, I find myself very very bored. There is nothing I can do solo, aside farming, that's worth my time. In fact, I find that the only reason to play my 60 is for raids. Finding a raid by your lonelies is basically impossible, and not very smart. And to get in a raid via your guild requires scheduling ahead, which doesn't always work out when you need 60 people.
PvP they've ruined. My guild once ruled the horde-side for PvP on our server, if not the whole server. I do enjoy what they've done with x-realm bg's, but with not balancing mechanism it's not worth it to me. But to compare it to DAOC, it's the best thing ever. Never again do I have to worry about getting into the fight at the right time or the right day to see some action or to have a good battle. In Wow, if the first match sucks, rejoin and it's a whole new opportunity. Regardless, you never wait and there's rarely a 'bad' day to PvP. But again, world-PvP is a joke. The new systems they implemented in in EPL and silithus is nice, but the rewards aren't worth it. There's just no point to it.
I'll end with quests. Most of the quests are enjoyable to do. I can't recall (too many) quests that felt like a grind or just frustrated me. But the story behind them was always lacking. Immediately, playing EQ2, I realized that quests can and should have important storylines, that fit into the scheme of the world, and give you enough motive alone to do the quests even if the end result is a simple grind. Had WoW's quests had the depth that I've found in EQ2 I might actually have the motivation to reread them, as well as repeat them. Eve lacks any real quest depth of any kind, and most other games I recall playing were simply average.
I worry that 10 more lvls and some new areas just won't suffice to fullfil what leaves me feeling empty when playing WoW. Granted, the expansion is needed, but I think it might be too late for what they going to give. For EQ2 being just as old and having 4 adventure packs, on their 3rd expansion, more depth, and greater detail (in every aspect: graphics, storyline, mechanics...), what WoW is giving us almost seems like a profitable joke.
WoW is bittersweet to me. I hardly think BC will be worth it - but I do look forward to it. I love the game, but I hate the community - the hype - the countless Counterstrike Kids who's cruddy little thrift store PC's happen to be able to run WoW.
However - anyone with a brain knew that even before WoW was released, it would be a smash hit. Even people who despised the series knew that it would be this big.
So if you have to write an editorial that is an argument against the 'nay-sayers' of the past... 2 years later, albeit... that goes to show you are either:
A) Utterly bored.
B) Utterly clueless.
You can't be being 'payed' to hype up WoW because they don't -need- the hype. You probably had some terrible anti-WoW conversation with someone at 4am, and thought you'd type up some bogus, unprofessional little editorial based on the opinions of children and Halo feltchers.
So what's the point of my post? You may as well have written an article on the importance of breathing oxygen in order to survive. And wether or not I'm just being ornery and harsh - the fact of the matter is, you're losing respect writing articles like that. And if you don't care - you need to grow up.
Number One: Blizzard already had a fanboy following, so people who had never played an MMO before bought WoW simply because it was the next Blizzard game. The Bait
Second Reason: World of Warcraft is addicting (note, I didn't say fun). To be anywhere near as good as you're "supposed to be" in WoW, you need to spend 4-5 hours A DAY instancing, grinding rep, and waiting in Ironforge for a decent group to form. The Trap
Reason the Third: Promises of future content that will reinvent the game. Stop kidding yourselves folks, Burning
Crusade will be more of the same. The cap will be raised to 70, so you have to spend more time to level up, only to return to the same boring and endless instancing that you've already done at level 60. And if you honestly think that PvP will in any way be more interesting, well, you're setting yourself up for dissapointment.
I'll say it again, a person who only played UO for 3 days has no business posting any sort of articles on MMORPG.com
I was bitter because I had such high hopes for WoW, but Blizzard let me down in a big way. Yet now I accept it for what it is, a PvE raiding game. The PvP is the worst implementation in the world, it boggles the mind how any one could honestly call it PvP, its more like gear vs gear.
WoW is popular no doubt and has a huge subscription base, but to all those people who tout the huge subscription base number, how many of those are in North America? I know Blizzard has a huge asian following, simply because the end game grind is actually very asian style MMO play. If you have ever played an asian MMO, that hasnt been watered down for western consumption, you would know that the WoW end game grind is very much their thing. I resubscribed to WoW to check in on the changes and say hi to some old friends. Lo and behold a lot of my old friends were gone, and I saw more servers with low pop (mostly PvP) than I had when I had originally left the game. Now I am not saying that WoW is dying, but I do not believe right now that their NA subscription is going up, it actually appears as if people are starting to leave.
Also a lot of people still play WoW because the competition is either crappy or really old. There are a lot of new MMOs coming down the pipe and we will see how WoWs subscriptions fare then. I dont see the game dying as there are lots of Blizzard fanboys, this coming from an ex blizz fanboy, and a strong asian following. There is a reason Blizzard no longers breaks down the numbers when they give them out.
Haha I don't think I am better because I don't play WoW. As I mentioned in my post several pages ago, I totally agree with the saying "Different strokes for different Folks". I am happy that WoW is so popular, because it keeps more of the type of person I don't enjoy grouping with or even being around, away from me.
As for WoW being the best, that is a load of horse manure. "Best": is purely a relative term. Best depends on who is judging, and will be different for just about each and every person. Just because WoW has the largest market share does NOT mean by any means it is the best. I don't know about you, but when the Acadamy Awards roll around every year, the movies that get voted "Best" are rarely the ones I would have voted for.
Summer Blockbusters are usually the movies that rake in the most money... does that mean they are the best? No, I did not think so....As a matter of fact, they tend to have the weakest plots and acting of the movies released over the course of a year. Star Wars episodes 1-3 I found utter tripe, and would have liked to request my money back. They did extraordinarily well in the box office however, so I guess they must be the 'Best".
just because more people do something does not mean that thing is the best. It just means there is a lemming/mob mentality, where lots of people are followers and very few are leaders.
As for maturity level in games. I have played EQ1, EQ2, DAoC, CoH, Lineage 2 and WoW, as well as multiple betas. In MY OWN experience, I found the average WoW player to be VASTLY less mature than in any of the other games mentioned. Does that mean that EVERY player is immature? No of course not. As I said, it was a matter of experience. In previous games, it was the rare low level ( I won't say noob) that begged for money or gear. In WoW, it is the rule rather than the exception. In other games, I rarely had difficulty with groupmembers and loot. Only very rarely did I ever encounter a lootwhore. In WoW, again, selfishness is the rule rather than the exception.
PVP Alterac Valley is one of the best ideas I have seen for PVP. Yet the average immaturity of the people who enter that zone makes the grind to max faction similar to having an appendectomy sans painkiller. The whining and whinging and crying and arguing turns what could and should be a 30-45 min battle into something that can last for hours. Meanwhile, the battle channels are filled with "OMG I hate pallies!" on the Horde side, and "OMG dude Shamen suxxors!" on Alliance side.
Never before have I seen 'Leet Speak" (don't even ask me how to actually write that) to such a degree. Every game has its own vocabulary, of course. However, WoW players have taken this to a new level. I often ask myself if some players are capable of even typing in English. (And no this is not targeted at non-native English speakers, since I am one myself)
Certainly WoW has a lot going for it, IF you like WoW style.
- Cartoony graphics with cheesy armor/weapons
- easy soloability all the way to max level
- craptastic loot system where any mob in the game can drop "purple" or uber item, regardless of whether it is a rare spawn or not.
-Very Basic PVP system that allows a participant to earn a reward with absolutely NO risk whatsoever.
-Very Basic raiding system, with mobs requiring little strategy, that makes you feel like you are amazing because you can kill them...
-A High level of instancing, making it so that a month or so after hitting level 60, you have done each and every instance 50+ times, taking all the interest and surprise out of the game.
Sure, if you like these characteristics, then WoW is JUST the game for you. Please go buy it and enjoy it. Feel free to give Blizzard your money. The more of you that do this, the fewer I have to listen to whining about a game's difficulty and how death actually means something.
As for WoW being THE game to hate on, well, there is a lot there to hate. Some people jump on the bandwagon, sure, that goes with everything. For myself, I disliked the cartoony graphics, but after my horrid experience with EQ2 I decided to try WoW. I leveled up a troll rogue (way too many undead already) and raided through Onyxia. maxed PVP faction with every zone, leveled up a hunter to 54, a priest to 30+ and a shaman 30+. 4 months after buying the game, you could not PAY me to log in again.
I do not think I am superior. I just cherish my individuality and I seek a challenge in a game. Mindless simplicity to me is boring, not a factor of fun. For you however, enjoy whatever you do. Don't try and tell me that your opinions are facts however, that just shows a lack of maturity right there. Everything I stated in this post I acknowlege as MY OPINION, and therefore subject to my own preconceptions. Man up and say the same..
At the moment I am enjoying Wow, got a bit bored having reached level 60 but then just re-rolled, of course I realise my fun won't last, the high-end is just too simple and narrow, but for now I'm enjoying it.
Ok so I suppose that makes me a fan, but even being a fan I think that article is absolute rubbish!
Steve quotes:
Reviews prior to WoWs release comparing it to EverQuest II didn't exactly instil a lot of hope. WoW was the game for idiots, while EQII was praised as the hardcore achievers game. Everyone admired how smooth and flawless WoW was but it was predicted to fail by some, and miserably so after six months. Any idiot could make it to 60 in six months, then what would they do? The prophecy was that there'd be a mass exodus leaving vacant empty servers as the flighty casuals moved onto the next big pretty. And somehow six months, then a year came and went with the subscription numbers going only upwards. WoWs so popular that newspaper cartoon strips mentioned it regularly, it's been the main theme of several television shows, and even had a related question on Jeopardy. WoW is the 800 pound gorilla of the MMO world.
This is totally untrue, as I recall there was nothing but high expectation and great reviews/previews of the game, also Steve's use of words like "idiots" and "unwashed masses" is completely out of order.
Wow's most important contribution is that it bought a lot of new players to MMORPGs at a time when they needed them. As a well-crafted simpler game with rainbow graphics, pots of gold, a myriad of quests, it was perfect for swelling the ranks and keeping everyone playing.
Then we hit a problem, WoW having subtly addicted many new players leaves them with nowhere to go and very little to do! A seasoned player to MMORPGs has learnt how emotional these games can be, you make friends, build guilds, fight and create together in a world where there is a common goal. A world where sometimes saying goodbye can be very hard.
WoW starts you off on the right footing but slowly by its very nature seems to work against everything that is at the heart of MMOs, especially at the high-end. If a game becomes selfish and is just about items and rank it is not a true MMORPG, it's just a game and in that content WoW shines! No wonder so many love/hate WoW, it offers the addictiveness and world of MMORPGs with one hand, but the other hand is empty.
Steve's article might have some valid points but overall it is immature and not an article that does anything to help the MMORPG world. At a time when flaming is the norm, the last thing we need is the sort of article that will divide the MMORPG community even more!
The main flaw with this article is the liberal use of the term "casual". A disclaimer needed to be put in that explains the writers definition of casual, because the term is so flexible and relative to the player.
The term casual can refer to a players atitude, or their given amount of play time. I've seen players that play for 5 hours or more but play "casually", that is they just chat with friends, hang out at certain popular spots, or just wander out to hunt wherever they feel like. Others play for less than 2 hours at a time but play "hardcore", that is they are focussed on achieving a certain goal in that time, completing a quest, exploring an area, levelling a tradeskill....
WoW 1-60 is great for the solo player, duo or small group, up 10 man groups. At 60 solo/duo play is viable, but not fun, since it involves faction grinding. At 60 WoW switches to a group game; with those groups gradually increasing in size until you reach raid level.
Whilst it might be technically possible for a "casual" gamer to enjoy the level 60+ game, it becomes increasingly less viable when you need greater amounts of time to play per sitting.
Finally, by reading between the lines I can only assume that the OP consider himself "casual" because he plays for 10 hours per week, more or less. Maybe, playing so infrequently, it would take 2 years to hit level 60. Maybe. I would consider the OP to be "ultra casual". I play these games for 2-3 hours per night, some nights, when RL activities allow, and would consider myself casual, and certainly far from hardcore. I fit my game time around RL, not the other way around, so even setting up smaller groups could be hit and miss.
Playing just 2-3 hours per night, without grinding, and often performing activities such as PvP or crafting (so no XP) I easily hit level 60, solo/duoed mostly, in just 4 months. At 60 I spend far more time waiting for groups/raids to set up, not a problem previously as a soloer or duoer, and that ate into my already limited game time.
To summarise: WoW is casual friendly?
1-60 yes.
60+ no not really.
I played since release... quit, came back, quit, etc. 1-60 was definately solo friendly. As an experiment, I took a hunter from 1 to to 58 in a month or so, and intentionally NEVER joined a group, did a dungeon, instance, or anything like that. I was trying to see if I could break the 10 days played to lvl 60, but fell a few levels short... (too much talking again :-). And 60+ is either group-only for an instance, or just grinding mobs for cash to buy epic mount. After the mount, there is literally no solo play, so you do raids, start another toon, or quit.
The OP article was correct though in his last paragraph. When faced with the group-solo question, Blizz said "let's make it possible to play solo... leading to more players... leading to more grouping because of higher population".
Other MMOs (eq2 for example) said "Let's make grouped encounters that can not be done solo, but require a balanced group. And let's keep the classes so distinct that each will be needed to flesh out said group"
At first glance, one might think that forced-grouping will result in more grouping, easier to find a group, etc. It just doesn't work that way. Blizz's approach has been proven by experience to be the better approach, (7.5 mill vs. under 400k). To add further validation to this point, eq2 then back-tracked and started injecting more solo content. The wow-eq2 battle which started two years ago has shown which style of MMO will win. Make it solo-able and solo-friendly, and you will have more people, more talking, more grouping.
Blizz's only real failure of choice was changing the game to group-only at 60+, and removing world-pvp. That is what 90% of the complaining about wow is on the wow-boards...those two things.
The point is well taken that WoW is a game for people with a limited amount of time to play. And I agree, and I for one am glad that this option is out there for gamers.
You know its like the Brittney Spears, or 50cent, or the U2 of the music world. The vast majority of "casual" listeners are into it! That’s cool by me.
Its just to bad that "casual" users have to miss out on all the really good, down and dirty gaming/music/media that’s out there. If you cut below the surface, past what 'they' call the "main-stream" there are many interesting and intelligent things to experience.
Perhaps in time someone will find a way to open the doors of the vastly complex and intelligently implemented world of non-mainstream gaming, so that those so called "casual" gamers can see what they have been missing.
Meh whatever. As usual discussions about casual gamers VS whatever other group of gamers are over simplified. In the end its the community that you run with that defines your play style, not the individual gamer. That said; games themselves don't define a type of player (you will find all sorts of players in all sorts of games; its just not as black and white as this article would imply)... player communities do. I wont over extrapolate, there are hundreds of forum posts on this topic.
?
ronan32 wrote, "you cant even solo past lvl 10. "
This is supposed to be a negative? Ah well, again, to each their own. For me, one of the MAJOR reasons I disliked WoW was that soloing was a viable alternative all the way from lvl 1 to lvl 60 for each and every class.
I don't know about you, but if I want to solo, I can plan an offline game. The reason I have stuck with mmogs since I first entered Norrath 1.0 in 1999 is because I find soloing boring. Community is what keeps me coming back to Mmogs. For me, I look for Solo play only if I cannot find a group. I never start out looking to solo. Again, there are countless non-mmog games for that.
Unlike Ronan, I feel a game that allows one to solo all the time prevents community, rather than builds it. I feel a greater sense of achievement when I accomplish a goal as a result of building a team, whether it be group size or raid size.
I could give you a greatly contrasting writeup of WoW as a player who enjoys all aspects of MMOGs. I enjoyed what raiding I had done, most of my PVP (pre honor system, at any rate), and ejoyed my roleplaying, and guess what? I don't play. The game got dreafully boring at level 60 and drama filled the server thanks to pisspoor implemented content.
I played Ultima Online for 3 years but Steve Wilson played it just 3 days... I would say it is all still a matter of taste.
That so many people are playing WoW is NOT a proove to me that they got a good taste at alll *lough*
The real problem with the hatred towards this article is because it's been made by a writer who has little experience to the other games around and showing off a rather classic narrowminded view on things, which just don't fit that understandgly make some folks angry, because would you want to read the local newspaper with articles wrote by people with a quite narrow-minded view and not really knowing what they are talking about?
I mean don't you read the newspaper to read interesting new and funny things, not some complete gibberish, with no connection towards the subjects?
When i read such things i would like to see some insight and what's might be in store for the future, without having some sort "i got 5 dollars to write, happy bunny must buy!".
Steve simply glorified something with an article that might have been nice 2 years ago as a preview but surely not a "2 years later...", I'm really sorry but it failed badly. And the 3 days of UO just kills his creditability by those old school mmorpg'ers, i'm not one myself but having some guy writing articles with more years mmorpg experience than the readers is normally a nice thing because, then he'll have more things to compare with and if he's a quite objective fellah, then it's simply for the better and will seem more true and fair, so you can actually use his views.
It might sound stupid but it's okay for the reader to be narrowminded, as long the article writers aren't that's the reason why readers are readers and not writers after all, right?
nice editorial! 9/10
played and loved wow.
quit a couple of months ago because of new job schedules. end game raids got boring too.
all i can say
WoW as a DUMB GAME: Good or Bad?
beginners, casuals, and some old mmo gamers don't like the 'PRO' gamers. why? all these 'PRO' gamers have epeens they need to stroke 24/7 and they think they can make a better game... which of course is not gonna happen because the only 2 thing they know are be uber at something someone else made and whine.
If you get bored, chances are, you were not really playing the game. Let me guess. You read the forums and saw this massive thread by some geeks about how the people behind the game nerfed this certain class skill/item that according to the local megaGeek is VITAL for your class complete with lots of numbers and computations. if those people actually used their brains trying to figure out the cure for the "can-not-be-cured-illness-of-the-century", the world is gonna be a happier place to live in. too bad they're just immature fcks who do not give a rat's ass. they only care about being uber-- in the internet. hhahahhahah the internet...
someone called you a noob and told you how to spec your talents. again, don't let others play your game. my alt rogue doesn't dual wield, wears a tuxedo in the battlegrounds, and i don't fckin care
i kill and still look good.
In PvP enabled MMOs like WoW, only pay attention to PvP vids and strats you can start with because PvP can be hella fun if you know what you're doing. gear? my alt rogue can kill naxx raider geared people with pieces of stormshroud and a few items not even epic class. it's all about timing and knowing what to do. start with the cookie cutter builds and then experiment experiment experiment! surprise them by using the most ignored but actually useful skill lol.
uber geeks have uber gear because they deserve shit like that for wasting hours of their life trying to be in the guild to post ' WORLD FIRST! ' sad to realize i... was once one of these people..... 2years.... hahahaha
don't be an ass and trash talk people who have lesser gear. shows how insecure you really are.
being famous in a video game is not COOL. you play mostly with geeks. being the #1 geek isn't exactly the best thing in the world.
VIDEO GAMES are not staple for human survival. DO NOT PLAY EVERYDAY! you will NOT DIE IF YOU STOPPED PLAYING for a day or two or even a week or month or a year! zomg basic.
remember that girlfriend you really love but broke up with you because you cancelled dates after dates so you won't lose DKP? alt+F4, shutdown computer, grow up, get her back, and be a man.
frustrated? nah. you just need rest.
there's an open invitation to rediscover planet earth. abuse it!
Abusing the planet earth rediscovery this is,
Ken'Shao Lunarwurm[Earth&Beyond]; theFisherman [AnarchyOnline]; 'Pleasurizer[CityOfHeroes]; DieCupid[GuildWars]; Trucido[WorldofWarcraft]; Fairy[SpaceCowboy]; 'notshowinnamelol' [DAoC, EVEOnline, AC, RYL, RO, Ryzom, ...] i just noticed my mmo list... and i still have alot of old games to add but i'm stopping because it is not gonna be good for me-- psychologically. now i feel sad.
signing out.
I see the same people saying WoW wouldn't last a year are still complaining about a game they have little knowledge of.
The comments about EQ2 are also true, I remember these boards full of praise for EQ2 and how WoW wouldn't last.
Its amazing how WRONG people are on these boards.
WoW may look simple, its not simple, its designed well.
I may have given up WoW (mainly due to the pressure to raid 7 days a week) but I have fond memories of it, as I have of EQ1.
The article completely hits the spot, people with jobs/kids don't have time to invest 7 hours a day in the game and I actually found the reverse of what people say on WoW age. I met a lot more adults than children in this game, only children have time to be "hardcore" gamers, rest of us have lives outside the game.
Oh boy when I 1st started to play WoW in US Open Beta... Omg! I never saw a game like that... so much fun that it's almost unbelivable. For one week I played atleast 8h a day... And it's not like other games that you play 8h a day and your head hurts and your eyes hurt. No... It was just fun, fun, fun for 8h a day.
But that was it's own doom. Since I was soo hooked I played the game every possible moment. So very soon it got boring for me :( But still I returned back every now and then for month or two. And if some good MMO don't come out soon I just might go back again.
You know, I find it interesting that the grinders are bashing a casual player's point of view. If I was to say I like to go to <insert your favorite theme park here> in order to go on a specific ride that is not a roller coaster, then the roller coaster fanatics bashed me, it would be a similar situation.
How dare you! How dare you tell me that I have to get to level 60 in 2 months in order to enjoy a game! How dare you tell me that soloing is NOT okay! How dare you tell me that the way I play is wrong! And again I say, How Dare You!
Now that I have that out, I will say that I have played this game since the original Beta as well. I have NO level 60 characters and I don't care. I recently got a second account so that I could stop contending with my minor child for play time and had to start all over. I chose a different class that I had not taken very far and have enjoyed moving up in that class for a change.
I played UO, EQ1, EQ2, DaoC, SWG and others and I will tell you now, WoW is IMHO, much more supportive of people like me that have a life outside of MMOs. I can log in for an hour or two and play without having to spend half that time looking for a group, that is, in itself, far above and beyond all the previously mentioned games.
So, for those of you that want to flame me for my PoV, go ahead, I don't care what you think anyway, cause you are not me and don't WANT to understand my PoV. I understand yours. But it is not mine. So, get a RL.
zguillotine
Amen to that Zg, it is this prevailing attitude that casual game play is somehow inferior to hardcore raiding that sets my teeth on edge. They have a lot of gall insisting that our play style is undeserving of the developers attention or that it should not be rewarded equally to raiding. Who the hell do they think they are anyway. I could give a rats ass about their play style. I have yet to ever come across a casual post that states that raiding and raiders should be removed from a game and yet almost evey single hardcore post states or implies that casuals are useless, unwanted, noobish and undeserving. Always accusing us of feeling entitled to game content, when in fact they are the ones who feel entitled to have things always go their way. Its a rare hardcore that can admit that other play styles are just as viable and deserving of being rewarded.
I call it the Brad McQuaid / Jeff Butler Syndrome. Play it the raider / hardcore way or hit the highway, because we're the best of the best and deserve the best and the rest can rot in hell.
Booooo to WoW
Praise GW!
Many players say the fun of WoW only begin after you reach 60. So (as a casual player) you spend 6 months of level grinding, then start to have fun? You need to pay over 75$, forced through painful grinds, only then the fun begin? And what's the point of playing a game that have no end?
And yet, we pay the same price for the game as they do. Hmmm, makes you think doesn't it.
zguillotine
I think that a person whom gets bored about Ultima Online in 3 days do not have criterium to judge a MMRPG.
I respect any opinion, but i think UO contents are way better than WoW contents. In fact i think wow has a huge contects lack, thats why I got bored of WoW in 3 months.
waiting long long time to connect, traveling all day long to get the next quest update and unbalanced PVP is what i remember about those WoW days.
In fact, I left WoW in 3 months and I have been playing EQ2 since then. (just the way around he did)
So, I do not agree at all with him.
A lot of people here seem to still have hostility to WoW and I can generally understand that as when you look around at this website and others like it, who are we the people who visit it? Generally more interested gamers, those who are really into the market behind just the game...
WoW is not the game built for the Hard Core, its the gate-way drug into a whole world of mmo's
I've dedicated most of my time to playing Eve Online for the last 3 years and a year of it was also spent in WoW, which imo are the two most opposite games as far as content and ease of play goes.. Eve being the hardest game to wrap yourself around and navigate, and WoW being the easiest! I've enjoyed it alot because when one got boring or frustrating the other was still there.
WoW is a great game for what it does. It's not here to please the hard-core most dedicated gamers in the mmo market, its the fun easy and enjoyable game you can just sit down and jump into for shits and giggles. Yes there is alot of great end-game content.. but still too easy for the truly hard-core. It's built for WoW players and it does offer something for everyone.
For everyone who still wants to complain about it and what not I simply ask this... stop and consider whether it's really the game for you, and think more about what it's doing for the market. Introducing mmo's to millions of people who might never have been interested. In the end I am going to say that WoW is most likely one of the largest reason other little mmo's like EVE have been doing better in the last few years, as more dedicated players are leaving WoW to explore the rest of the mmo market and making their way to other great games which many of us here love!
I agree. I always see people rushing to the endgame. It is probably those same people that complain on the forums and the same people that brag on the general channel about how they got to 60 in a week or 3 days playing time.
But I disagree with the macro and scripts. I was first introduced to those kind of scripts in SWG. I never bothered to try to learn them because I feel it is cheating. I feel that if you cannot be bothered to play the game the way it was designed to and you must rely on a script to play the game for you or to use scripts to take shortcuts in the game (such as a script that keeps you buffed so you don't forget) you shouldn't be playing it. People who use those scripts should understand that it creates an unfair playing field, because many people do not know how to use scripts.
I agree with the person you are disagreeing with. Single player RPG's are made to solo in and they have better content. In MMORPG's you need to step out of your box and learn to socialize with people and make friends. That is how you guarantee yourself a spot in a group everytime you log in. Hell, people are quick to add a person to their friendslist in grouping MMO's when you know how to play your class and you are fun to play with.
Competing is a reasonable excuse to play a MMO even if you are a soloer, but if competing is your itch, then you are playing the wrong game. Guildwars is more of a competitive MMO, just as DAoC is. All it takes in WoW to win is good gear and a higher level. That's not really competing. Competing is when the playing field is even. In fact, FPS games with online capability is better for competing. However, if FPS isn't your thing, Guildwars is your best Fantasy competition game. It takes skill and team work to win in Guild Wars, unlike WoW.
You played DAoC? In what year? I started DAoC around 4 years ago and grouping was not hard to accomplish. If you spent half of 1-2 hours LFG, you are highly anti-social. Everyone grouped in DAoC and that is what I miss. I am 26, married, and a father. I have a life, but I still think that MMO's are for groups, not for soloers and while I understand why someone would want to solo, I will never understand why those same people would rather play a MMO solo when the content is sub-par to single player RPG's instead of playing single player RPG's.
Now, I am a casual gamer. I play 2-3 hours a day on most days. Sometimes more and sometimes less. I also play WoW currently, because it has a large community. I don't give a rats ass how fast I level. So when I log in, my priority is to find a group. I hardly ever do, because of people like you, who would rather solo. But if it took me 30 min to find a group and then I played with that group for an hour, it would have been worth it, because grouping is so much more fun than solo play.
Okay Vrazule, I am a casual gamer and I will tell you right now that 40-man raiders deserve better equipment than us, because they put more effort into the game than we do. Does it bother me that their gear is better than mine? No, it doesn't, because I know I worked hard for the gear I have. I am also a casual gamer who feels that solo play does not belong in an MMO. I believe that those that are spending a half hour finding a group are not trying hard enough, are anti-social, or are playing the wrong game to try and group in. WoW is a game designed for the soloer...at least until 60, with a splash of instance dungeons for groupers to get their feet wet in. So in WoW, it would take your a while to find a group. But in a grind game, like DAoC, if you are actively searching for a group, you will find one fairly quickly. But this is coming from someone who would group, even if it wasn't my quest that I was doing.
Then it has no bearing on your game play, but it does for those of us who want to get great gear without having to raid. Its all about different tastes. Tell me one thing, how would it be detrimental to a game, especially one that is casual from 1 to 55, to give the best rewards to all play styles? You people keep on with this risk vs reward crap. Excuse me, but what exactly do you risk in these games, especially in WoW where there is no real penalty for anything. Raiders invest large chunks of time in one sitting, casuals invest large chunks of time in many sittings, yet overall they spend very much the same amount of time in the game when all is said and done. There is abosultely nonthing to justify this gear gap between raiders and non-raiders, which is made even worse in a PvP game.
It has never been about risk vs reward, no matter how much devs prattle on about it. Its all about eliticism, epeen stroking and slowing down player progression with raiding mechanized time sinks. If people don't want to raid due to rewards being just as good solo or small group, then so what. All that tells me is that raiding isn't fun after all and actually has no other purpose than to deny segments of the player base content, give hardcores their epeenage and supposedly give players something to chew on in an end game that has no real content. Raiding is simply a mechanism to keep the hardcores occupied and to get them to stick around for as long as possible. Considering the casual draw of this game and the fact that we've hung around for two years begs one to wonder why they would choose hardcores over casuals. We outnumber you and we're just as loyal and are just as willing to spend money on a game as long as it caters to our play style from beginning to end.
It is not fair for people who don't put in the same painstaking ours into raiding to get the same gear that they have. It is like saying that the janitor at work should get the same pay as the CEO, because he spends the same amount of hours at the building, but doesn't do all the hard work of running the company.
I am not one of those risk vrs reward people that you just tried to label me as. I am one of those people that says give people what they deserver according to the work they put into the game. As a father, I have a choice in whether or not I want to raid. Every adult has that choice. You can choose to spend less time with your family and raid for the great gear if you really want it, or you can spend more time with your family and be happy that your reward is in real life, while in game, your gear is not as great as those who invest their lives into the game. It is fair and you shouldn't complain about it. And casual players do not put the same hours into the game as hardcore players or they wouldn't be called casual players.
why do you WANT great gear to be obtainable by farming a raid? there's no challenge in something you can farm. why do you want to have games that have no challenge, but reward you for wasting hundreds of hours in a single dungeon, going thru the same motions over and over for everyone to get the exact same gear....
why?
It's not what I want. I think it is a total waste of time, but I value things more than the best gear in game. But if that is the most tedious and hard thing to do, then I think that they should have it, not us. I would rather the best gear be obtainable through player crafting. Maybe take a lesson from another game that comes to mind where you get schematics as loot and those schematics are good for one set of armor, which is created by the crafters and that is the best loot in game. But it gives the adventuring types a reason to face challenging mobs (the schematics). The ones who loot the schematics get a cheaper set of best armor, because they only pay for the labor and armor, while casual players have to buy the schematics, which are not cheap, and the labor and armor. But that would only work where crafters is a class by themselves, not a skill on the side.
Or better yet, make the 3rd best armor able to be gotten by a long series of quests, like DAoC's Epic quest, and then the second best can be looted off of raid bosses that take no longer than 2 hours to do and needs no more than 2 full groups to beat. The first best could be a combonation of player crafted gear, which is then enchanted with abilities by another type of crafter. That would be the ideal solution and is implemented in DAoC. It works great.
since when are WoW epic raids easy farm?
no challenge? how many can actually do Naxxramas? some guilds can't even beat onyxia/rag. if you have tried raiding, you'll know challenge never leaves the experience. it only takes one person to wipe the raid and ruin everything. gathering the right items/gear required to successfully do the raid is another challenge. still no challenge? how about getting 40people to come online? these are but few of the challenges...
maybe you've mastered the game.
i'm inviting you to go rediscover the real world. it's epic.
The same kind of challenge can be applied to solo and small group content. They don't do it because they're too lazy to come out with enough content to keep people around for years at a time, so they take the lazy way out by slowing people's progress with raids. These things are built specifically to waste time, no only in their implementation, but also in the fact that people have to do them repeatedly 100's of times before they get all the gear they can while competing with 39 other people.
The devs choose to make raiding more challenging, raids are not inherently more challenging in and of themselves. If that were the case, single player games would never present a challenge to its players. I believe that if developers spent as much time and energy creating challenging non-raid content as they do on actual raiding, they'd have a mega hit on their hands. I believe this is what will bring in mainstream to the MMO industry, it certainly works for console games.
yet again, someone rambling on about nothing and talking about how others have no life.
if something is FARMABLE, how is it challenging? how do you progress past MC to the next mind-numbingly boring raid instance? do you go out and gather the right items/gear from someplace OTHER than MC? no. you farm mc. you do mc week after week after week, until everyone in your guild that raids has all the class specific items from MC, then you move to the next one.
so, are you telling me that these people doing mc week after week are sitting there all hyped up and going "man, this is challenging. the mobs are never in the same locations, they've learned our tactics and are laying ambushes for us." OR, are they all calm and falling asleep and like 'ok, here's the next boss, who needs crap off him?'
guess you must not be playing wow. the things you mention aren't really much a problem for the raiding guilds. and if memory serves (or just watching the wife fall asleep playing her priest cuz well, yeah, the raiding is boring and she's just in there because they asked her to come along), you don't even need a whole 40 men to do them after a while.
so um, yeah, you're pretty much wrong on everything. raiding is NOT hard and challenging. MAYBE the first time or two someone does a raid, but after you're doing the same bloody raid instance for the third, fourth, eigth, thirtieth time.... if it's still a challenge, then you're doing the instance with only hunters that have no pets.
if only UO would update their graphics engine...
i still say uo has a ton of things ingame that other games haven't even thought about trying.
i think wow is taking some steps in the right direction with their changes to BGs and slowly moving away from the huge raid instances. now, if they'd make crafting viable in the post-70 game. cuz if 60-70 is the same as 1-60, then people will be hitting 70 a month to six weeks after BC goes retail.
but, as i sit here playing whatever, reading, or watching tv, and i glance at the wife playing on her priest, rogue, whatever, and they're doing some raid.... she'll have vent on speaker (she doesn't like wearing headsets) and everyone just sounds bored. or they're bs'ing about stuff that happened at work today or whatever, while they're fighting the big bad raid boss.
i chat with these guys. it's not for fun, it's because it's what you have to do in order to progress in that game and they're either addicted, or they just are too lazy to start over in a new game from level 1 and work their way up. because it's too easy to send lots of gold and equipment to your alts when you already have a couple of lvl 60s.
but again, by kaplan's own numbers, less than one percent of the wow population engages in raids. yet, that's the focus of the post 60 game. so does that mean that only less than one percent of the wow population plays their toons post 60? does that mean that no one stays in the game post 60? or does that, by kaplan's own numbers, mean that the focus of most every patch, is only played by a very teeny tiny portion of the wow community?
they're making lots of changes, with more to come, in wow. it's not because they're keeping millions of customers satisfied. they're making changes because they're doing something wrong. or several somethings wrong.
i'm just off on a lot of tangents at this point.
if someone is playing for two years and still hasn't hit lvl 60, that's not casual play. casual, VERY casual play, gets you to 60 in (at the most) 6 months. 60 in two years means you either quit for most of that time, or you're paying a monthly sub for a very expensive chat client.
but again, some people do that. me, if i'm paying for a game, i'd want to experience what the game has to offer, instead of just having a pricey chat client.
but, maybe if enough people put things like what nthnaoun states in the above post, if they put stuff like that into the survey when they cancel wow... maybe we'll start seeing even more changes.
it's good that people don't just leave a game; but, instead they try to change it for the better.
one day the moronic fanbois will learn, maybe, that their endless worship does more harm to the game they worship than anything else. maybe, one day these mindless dolts will see that by critiquing a game, it can actually change and become much better and enjoyable. maybe, just maybe, one day... the fanboi idiots will realize that it's not the cool kids that do the coding, it's not people that have, and enjoy, a family and family life that have been making endless-hour-long raids... that it's actually turd burglars that the majority of the fanbois would not hang out with offline.
but whatever. OBVIOUSLY, people have been speaking with their money; BECAUSE wow is undergoing a LOT of changes, with a lot more to come. and if the money wasn't saying "YOU NEED TO MAKE CHANGES", then they would just keep on pumping out more and more raids and kaplan would still be yelling 'LEARN TO RAID NOOB' from the rooftops. but... i guess the money has spoken and raiding has come out to be the big LOSER.
quote how many millions of subs wow has, the money has spoken and it demands radical changes to the game.
just a caveat on this thought. wow's ui was built so that addons/mods would be created and easily so. they even have an official wow forum for people to post their addons/mods and share them with the community. wow actively promotes the twinking of their ui and has made changes to their ui which incorporate features found in popular mods.
Damian Wrote: "people will be hitting 70 a month to six weeks after BC goes retail. "
People will hit 70 less than 36 hrs after release, probably even less than 24 hrs.
Still, I agree with most of what you say. I think Devs need to hear when subscribers are happy about a issues in a game. I also think that Devs need to hear when certain issues in a game need to be improved. What is important is the manner in which this communication is conducted.
Devs work long hours and devote extra time in every game in order to bring out the best game they can. I am sure each and every one of them appreciates a verbal pat on the back, a simple "hey guys, I really like what you did here!" Game developing is a labor of love for many devs. There are many other venues for programmers to work in. Many devs gravitate towards the gaming sector because they are avid gamers themselves, and they are actually doing what each and every one of us could do, putting their money where their mouths are. The least we can do is say thanks for the effort. HOWEVER! No game is perfect. As hard as devs work, they are not infallible. Also, a game has many many different devs, each with their own theories as to what is best for the game. Balance that against the marketing department, the CEO and financial departments, budgets etc, and there are going to be loads of areas for improvement.
I really feel pity for devs who pay attention to official forums.
On one hand there are rants and complaints about how devs are breaking the game, how they never listen to the paying consumers, how each and every ranter could develop a better game yada yada yada. On the other hand, you have rabid fanbois that jump down the throats of each negative poster, telling them to go play another game and how they have no lives yada yada yada, quickly descending from game issues into personal attacks.
Neither of these 2 types of post are useful at all to a game or to devs. For one thing, the people who post in an official forum are those who feel most strongly about the game. A VAST MAJORITY of game players never bother to post in any thread whatsoever. When it comes down to it, every minutes spent typing in a forum of any kind could be spent in-game. (currently I don't play any games
) When I have limited time, I tend to jump into the game and play, rather than "waste" time in a forum. However, many people spend more time on forums than they do in a game.
Fanbois see it as their bounden duty to attack and dismantle each negative comment and the poster, whether the OP has a valid point or not. Where does this help? Constructive criticism is a neccessary part of the creative process. Each and every game on the market or in development can be improved. The more people offering ideas, the better the chance of improvement.
Hater posters also do nothing to help the game, whether their comments contain validity or not. Who wants to read a post that runs along the lines of, "stupid devs can make a game. I could do better you id...!" I am constantly amazed at how many posts actually start out this way, sometimes even in the title. If I were a dev, I can guarrantee that upon seeing that, I would not bother to read the post, whether it had valid points to make or not. If I devoted as much time and effort into a game as Devs do, reading such a post really would not make me feel great, let alone inclined to read such an obnoxious post.
For some reason, many people feel that, since the internet is impersonal, and one can remain relatively anonymous behind a screen name, they have license to be as obnoxious as they can be. Secure in the knowledge that there can be no retaliation, they are happy to live in the illusion that they are the biggest, baddest people around. Threats of violence, though common, are totally void of any strength. I can tell you, a threat from some anonymous poster really is not that scary. Get over yourselves!
If both sides on a game ever truly wish to improve their game, the best way is a rational discussion/debate. A lot more can and will get done, improving the gaming experience for all.
Now on a lighter side, I figured I would post this link about a raid leader in WoW I find quite funny. I never raided with this person, but I have raided with similar in both EQ1, EQ2 and WoW.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU0AB6xAtMg
I'll tell you what, I was playing RPG's on my puter before there was internet. That's right, BEFORE internet. I was flying around my ANSI text of a space ship in Galactic Empires when you nay-sayers were likely being weened off yer mother's milk. I can't even remember the names of the games it's been so long.
This is by far my most aggressive post, but nothing drives me crazier than some nub telling ANYONE whether they have the experience, knowledge, or whatever background necessary to critique another game. Just argue your point well, be articulate, site your sources or what you are comparing to. But don't put someone down cuz they haven't played your UO for 4 years.
One could argue it's how different WoW is from these classics that makes it such a success. Oh wait, that's what he did... guess the 5mill subscribers and one decent editorial showed you.
I'm not singling anyone out (notice I mentioned no names), but you know who you are.
eruvin posted;
Now on a lighter side, I figured I would post this link about a raid leader in WoW I find quite funny. I never raided with this person, but I have raided with similar in both EQ1, EQ2 and WoW.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU0AB6xAtMg
Thanks eruvin, made me laugh was very much like my first MC raid, scared me away for weeks
Nice article, I feel you speak for many of us. MMORPGs have advanced so much in the past few years, and for all the enjoyment we've derived from these games we have those hard working, creative devs to thank.
I do appreciate not everything is perfect which is why we need to give good feedback and even with devs trying there best to please, it must be an impossible task given our varied styles of game play.
" It is much easier to be critical than to be correct" Benjamin Disraeli
I also find WoW's content release schedule frankly insulting, when they are making 10-100's of millions of dollars a month, what are they doing running the building boilers on 1000 dollar bills? Where's it all going? It certainly isn't into live or expansion developement, nor CSR's or bug fixing. TBC - no new classes just recycling the shaman and paladin? My reaction is how much of a lazy con can you get.
parmenion posted;
I also find WoW's content release schedule frankly insulting, when they are making 10-100's of millions of dollars a month, what are they doing running the building boilers on 1000 dollar bills? Where's it all going? It certainly isn't into live or expansion developement, nor CSR's or bug fixing. TBC - no new classes just recycling the shaman and paladin? My reaction is how much of a lazy con can you get.
Blizzard is part of the Vivendi games group of Vivendi.
Quoted on Wikipedia;
Vivendi SA (formerly known as Vivendi Universal) is a French media conglomerate with activities in music, television and film, publishing, telecommunications, the Internet as well as video games.
The company disclosed a corporate loss of €23.3 billion in its 2002 annual report, the worst loss to date for a French company.
Wonder how they managed to sort that lot out, maybe a little help from World of Warcraft!
oops, you said billion. lol! still, add to this some 5 year projections and all the other aspects of their conglomeration and the value of all assets i'm sure it's not as bad as it sounds.
For the casual player...it's hard really to comment on this. The author of the article obviously is concerned with solo play, so in that it's ok if you are a casual player while all your friends zoom past you and you can't party with them anymore (but that is a problem with all MMO that involve levels), so that aspect doesn't seem to be a factor to the author.
I have played WoW since Feb of 2005, and after playing on and off, I have officially shut it down yesterday. I was bored with the game for months, but just had my account to play with friends I had. The problem with warcraft is that it is really farmcraft. Farm for items, farm for honor, farm for mats...there isn't any real point to the game except to get better gear. Sure, it's fun to explore a new zone when it comes out, but after it's done...it goes on "farm mode" as big guilds call it, to get honor in that faction or for items.
This comment on BG for pvp is a joke, I BGed tons, and it is a real poor excuse for pvp, but the only outlet there is. World PvP died when cross server BG started, because instead of waiting for 30 mins->1h+ to BG you have instant pvp access...though in a controlled and set rule world. Thus, world pvp died because the only ones out in the world are on their way to instances or farming for honor (talking about 60 here). Sure a few skirmishes arise, but these far and inbetween fights doesn't count as a PvP oriented server (thus PvP server is almost moot).
I find it odd that you claim to have played UO for 3 days...why bother even mentioning that, since it shows you really didn't play it. UO is everything WoW isn't, and I and many like me are waiting for a game to come that will be like it again (DF don't let me down!!).
In Wow sure there are raids, so you take over an ally/horde town...hold it for a while, then so what? The npcs spawn, after a while people leave and nothing has changed.
The expansion will just bring more of the same. It will be interesting to see how it will hold up with other new games coming out that actually give purpose to being top level. Taking over towns (and owning them), etc...
Not knocking the people that still play WoW, just saying there is a cap on the playability on the game, one which I and many others have had enough of.
As a casual player, not sure what you can do at 60 besides BG, and perhaps get invited to some PUG instances where you probably wont have an equal chance to roll on items...oh well. In the mean time I am waiting for other games to come...and hope they are what they claim to be.
very true. HOwever, there is the fact that despite being ultimately owned by a single corporation, BLizzard is an individual entity, as are the other companies. Therefore, it is not as if Vivendi can just skim off all the profit from WoW to distribute elsewhere. That is possible only to a certain and minor extent, due to tax/legal issues. Neither Vivendi nor Blizzard are privately owned companies I believe, which further makes this difficult.
Think about it this way. Vivendi is a European company with divisions all over the world. WoW has subscriptions from all over the world. Blizzard is taxed on profit in the US, and if Blizzard tried to claim no profit because it was sending it all back to Europe, I think the IRS would have a problem with that. This is certainly done to a certain extent by many many companies in an effort to avoid paying taxes. This does not mean that it is entirely legal in every form either, and we see companies in legal difficulties with the IRS and other national government tax departments every year. (Yes I know that the US federal tax code needs a lot of work) There is a huge grey area when it comes to taxes, and companies pay millions every year to lawyers whose sole job is to help those companies avoid paying billions in taxes.
Popularity does not equal great for all people. In fact if you just consider popularity, WOW is not even in the top 3 unless Lineage etc have lost a lot of players.
But my main objection to WOW has been stated by others - far too much emphasis placed on solo, nobody at 60 has any raiding skills. And to be honest, who cares - after the 20th raid on the same zone for the same old stuff, it would get old.
To some extent that was also EQ2's failing - tons of content up to 70, but after that it turns into a "why bother" game.
EQ1 avoided a lot of that with the AA system, and Asheron's Call 1 with the "endless" levels. The problem with both of those games is that the basic game core is somewhat flawed. In EQ class is far too important & game limiting, in AC1 it is far too trivial.
While WOW has a lot going for it - especially for "casual" players - it also has a lot of things that harder core players don't like. WOW has a huge player base, but a very small (comparitively) veteran base. Very few WOW players that I ever saw have played for more than a year - yet it is very easy to find EQ1 players that have been playing at least off and on for 8 years.